WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-06.log

--- Log opened Thu Jun 07 17:51:11 2007
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wgGuest39	hello	23:50
wgGuest39	i need help	23:51
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ckotil	any reason why I cant return www_managePendingVersions() instead of www_manageVersions() at the end of www_approveVersionTag() ? it takes me to the adminOnly() screen...and im admin. any ideas?	02:01
ckotil	im working in Operations/ VersionTag.pm	02:02
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+perlDreamer	Using WebGUI::Form, how do you change the text shown in a button from Save to something else?	07:16
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pjesi	morgning	13:36
pjesi	I finally managed to figure out what got fubar after updating to .18	13:37
pjesi	the CS table has not been migrated	13:39
pjesi	so SQL statements fails	13:39
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:20
ckotil	hello	16:36
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SDuensin	Hi ckotil & AMH_bob	16:40
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AMH_bob	Good morning!	16:53
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+perlDreamer	Hey, folks	20:28
SDuensin	Hey perlDreamer	20:30
+perlDreamer	I've been buried in chips. Anything cool happening out here?	20:32
SDuensin	Not that I've noticed. :-/	20:34
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@rizen	I'm socially retarded	22:38
* SDuensin chuckles		22:38
+perlDreamer	How do you figure?	22:41
@rizen	you tell me, i'm the retarded one	22:42
+perlDreamer	I'm no better	22:42
SDuensin	You're both nuts.	22:43
+perlDreamer	Besides, you're part geek, and it's just part of the package	22:44
+perlDreamer	And, of course, we have to be extra patient with java-hacking geeks	22:44
SDuensin	Yea! Those lamers!	22:45
@rizen	one of these days colin, pow! straight to the moon.	22:45
* SDuensin has been in C++ and Lua lately.		22:45
SDuensin	Colin?	22:46
@rizen	sduensin needs to be studying perl and yui so he can make webgui desktop	22:46
+perlDreamer	Yes.	22:46
+perlDreamer	Abandon you're java follies and stay on the true path!	22:46
+perlDreamer	There is no J in LAMP	22:46
SDuensin	Unfortunately, there is no LAMP at WORK.	22:46
* perlDreamer notes that there is no P in WORK		22:47
@rizen	step 1: become bruce wayne wealthy	22:47
@rizen	step 2: build webgui desktop in your newfound free time	22:47
SDuensin	Tell ya what. You provide #1 and I'll gladly do #2.	22:48
nuba	heh	22:48
+perlDreamer	ditto	22:48
+perlDreamer	ala Mark Shuttleworth	22:48
+perlDreamer	see, we even know the strategy works	22:48
+perlDreamer	rizen: feel like helping me close some bugs? Do you have time?	22:49
@rizen	i neither feel like it nor have the time for it, or i'd be doing it myself...but if you pose questions i'll do my best to respond with something that simulates an answer	22:51
+perlDreamer	Is it a bug if there someone sets the user session timeout to 0? This causes people to be automatically logged out after logging in.	22:52
@rizen	so is your question, if they are an idiot, should we let them be, or should we protect them from themselves?	22:54
+perlDreamer	Yes :) I'm leaning toward letting them shoot themselves, and suggesting they put in an rfe for a 15 minute minimum.	22:55
@rizen	rfe it is	22:57
+perlDreamer	Next one. When a package is deployed, hidden assets become visible. Is this by design, or is it a bug?	23:00
@rizen	yung is already working on that one	23:01
+perlDreamer	How about the byte ordering problem with the Poll and Storable?	23:02
@rizen	no idea what you're talking about	23:07
+perlDreamer	A user switched from a G4 to an Intel Xserve, both running OS X. Storable started complaining about byte ordering inside of the Poll, relating to the Graph module.	23:08
+perlDreamer	http://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/polls-not-working-on-os-x-intel#XL71AxwxkpvKi5to2Iu7kA	23:08
@rizen	that's a problem with Storable	23:12
@rizen	nothing we can do about it	23:12
@rizen	it's a known issue with using storable. the only option we would have is to switch everybody to using some text based serialization system rather than a binary one like storable	23:13
+perlDreamer	Like JSON, YAML or Dumper.	23:13
@rizen	yup	23:14
+perlDreamer	And we use Storable all over the place.	23:14
* SDuensin likes JSON.		23:15
+perlDreamer	It does mean that WebGUI packages are not cross platform.	23:16
+perlDreamer	Polls, Events, SQLForms, SyndicatedContent, WSClient all use Storable.	23:17
@rizen	Packages don't use storable	23:17
@rizen	they use json	23:17
@rizen	for that very reason	23:17
+perlDreamer	Some of the Assets store Storable blobs in the db.	23:19
@rizen	fine, but that doesn't mean the package system is compromised	23:23
@rizen	it means those assets are	23:23
+perlDreamer	right, only packages with assets that store stuff in the db are not portable.	23:24
+perlDreamer	So far, that only appears to be the Poll	23:24
@rizen	you should kick mrhairgrease in the nutz for that one	23:25
SDuensin	Can't you just patch Storable?	23:26
@rizen	can't you just tell a 32bit system to be a 64 bit system	23:30
SDuensin	You can, but it'll just giggle.	23:31
@rizen	then you understand why you can't patch storable	23:31
SDuensin	perlDreamer said it was an endian problem. Not a data size problem.	23:31
SDuensin	Big difference. :-)	23:32
@rizen	i'm not saying it's a 32 bit vs 64 bit problem	23:32
@rizen	i'm saying it's an architecture problem	23:32
@rizen	it's not something that can be fixed	23:32
@rizen	it's simply the difference between two platforms	23:32
SDuensin	Sounds like Storable is kinda crappy. :-)	23:33
+perlDreamer	Not crappy, just not portable.	23:35
SDuensin	Not portable IS crappy!	23:35
* SDuensin is Mr. Portable.		23:35
@rizen	no, sduensin is mr potable	23:36
* SDuensin suppresses rude comments about rizen "drinking" him.		23:36
@rizen	you like things to be drinkable, don't you?	23:36
SDuensin	Yes. And when my C++ compiler comes out later tonight, I WILL be drinking. :-)	23:37
SDuensin	OK, it's weekend time! Later all!	23:47
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+perlDreamer	You still buried, rizen?	23:59
--- Day changed Sat Jun 09 2007
@rizen	always man	00:00
@rizen	always	00:00
@rizen	it's what happens when you try to grow a company into an empire	00:02
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+perlDreamer	whoa, a perlbot	01:01
+perlDreamer	rizen: in the Image asset, why does setSize take the greater of the extra input or the file?	01:40
+perlDreamer	my $size = ($input > $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"))) ? $input : $storage->getFileSize($self->get("filename"));	01:40
+perlDreamer	It's really old, rev 3 code	01:41
@rizen	i believe it's because input is always zero unless it is bigger	01:42
@rizen	so it's a non zero test	01:42
+perlDreamer	I've been working on SDuensin's file sizing bug (assets report the wrong size after commit). That method is causing the bug. I tested discarding the one from Image and inheriting from File and it works fine.	01:47
+perlDreamer	Do you see anything I should be wary of?	01:47
@rizen	ok	01:48
@rizen	sounds fine	01:48
+perlDreamer	Sweet!	01:48
+perlDreamer	--bug	01:48
+perlDreamer	I'll work on backporting it to 7.3 then.	01:48
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+perlDreamer	crud. ++bug	02:14
+perlDreamer	back to the whiteboard	02:14
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cap10morgan	i have an ubuntu feisty build of the wre to contribute. where do i upload that again?	02:54
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cap10morgan	rizen?	03:03
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@rizen	cap10morgan	05:17
+Radix_	hey.. got a wre setup with multiple sites on it. I have a main website www.mydomain.com and several subsites - s1.mydomain, s2.mydomain, etc. I've configured mydomain.com to go to www.mydomain in hosts/webgui config etc, but it always seems to go to the config that's loaded first alphabetically regardless.	05:29
@rizen	yup	05:30
@rizen	it's because you didn't do it right	05:30
@rizen	that's all the help i can provide	05:30
+Radix_	Any easy way to fix it? or do I have to use the modproxy config on the site that's receiving it and redirect it there?	05:30
+Radix_	:P	05:31
@rizen	ok, i suppose i can tell you	05:31
@rizen	the most likely culprit is in your either the last line in your modproxy config for each of your sites, or the ServerName line in the individual modperl files	05:31
@rizen	for example	05:32
@rizen	in s1.example.com.modproxy	05:32
@rizen	you should have ServerName s1.example.ccom	05:32
+Radix_	atm it's just what the wre generated via addsite	05:33
@rizen	and RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://%{HTTP_HOST}:81/$1 [P]	05:33
@rizen	then in modperl you should have Servername s1.example.com	05:33
@rizen	and in the rewrite rule instead of %{HTTP_HOST} you might have the actual host name	05:34
@rizen	and if those are all true	05:34
@rizen	then the next place to look is local dns	05:34
@rizen	if your local dns doesn't match your external dns, then you'll have problems	05:35
@rizen	in most cases local dns is nothing more than /etc/hosts	05:35
SDuensin	Hey rizen - waaaay off topic, but are you a video gamer? If so, this will be funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkDxF2kn1I (If not, it's still funny!)	05:35
@rizen	but sometimes people actually run named on their local box too	05:35
+Radix_	Bleh.. I just found some serveralias mydomain.com in each of the modproxy files - that has probably caused it	05:36
+Radix_	typical, as soon as get frustrated enough to ask for help I find the source myself :)	05:36
@rizen	yeah, stop asking for help	05:37
+Radix_	hehe.. thanks :)	05:37
+Radix_	found a bug in the ubuntu 6.10 wre setup btw	05:39
+Radix_	the default spectre.conf file has a missing comma in it	05:39
@rizen	that's in all 0.7.2 releases	05:40
+Radix_	actually.. that may be 7.3.18 instead actually.. since that'd be where that file came from	05:40
@rizen	it's fixed in wre 0.8.0	05:40
+Radix_	I added it to the wre installation wiki page	05:40
+Radix_	along with the force install weather::com::finder steps which are needed for the current wre too	05:41
@rizen	SD, why oh why would you waste 4 minutes of my life like that	05:41
@rizen	i'll never get that time back	05:41
SDuensin	Because it's FUNNY!	05:43
@rizen	ok, it was kinda funny...but i'm researching CAS	05:44
@rizen	i must have concentration...not funny	05:45
@rizen	be sure to check plainblack.com on monday morning	05:46
SDuensin	CAS? As in CAS before RAS?	05:46
@rizen	CAS = Central Authentication Services	05:47
SDuensin	Eh, mine has something to do with RAM. Never did understand it. :-)	05:47
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perlDreame1	Hey, folk.s	21:06
perlDreame1	How do you draw good people to a BOF type conference session.	21:06
@rizen	i'm not sure they're all folks	21:06
perlDreame1	Food?	21:06
@rizen	some might be sirs	21:06
perlDreame1	Schwag?	21:06
perlDreame1	Empty promises and glitz?	21:07
@rizen	or ma'am	21:07
@rizen	beer!!!	21:07
perlDreame1	I'm thinking of doing a BOF session at OSCON this year	21:07
@rizen	are bof's done in hallway space at oscon, or do you get a room like they do at apache con?	21:07
perlDreame1	They're done in rooms	21:08
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perlDreame1	http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2007/create/e_sess?x-t=os2007_BoF.form	21:08
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wjw61	evening rizen	02:38
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ckotil	rizen: I have a CAS authentication module for webgui	22:43
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@rizen	anybody actually here? need an opinion	23:19
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xdanger	yup	23:27
@rizen	Ok, we have the section of our site called "Store" right now, which contains product and service descriptions, as well as lets you buy our products and services	23:28
@rizen	my question is, is that word descriptive enough	23:28
@rizen	my favorite word for this link is "offerings"	23:28
@rizen	but i don't think that it's a good word	23:29
@rizen	for the general public	23:29
@rizen	other options would be products, shop, services	23:29
@rizen	unfortunately there isn't enough room in the menu for "products and services"	23:29
@rizen	i know this might seem like a trivial thing...but i keep getting complaints that people say that they can't find anything on our site, so i'm trying to make some positive changes	23:30
@rizen	and this area isn't one i've gotten any suggestions on	23:30
xdanger	Shop is quite descriptive	23:30
xdanger	but it's Store in other form...	23:31
@rizen	being an international user, does one have better meaning to you than the other?	23:31
xdanger	Offerings doesn't sound so nice for some reason...	23:32
@rizen	they mean virtually the same thing to the average user here	23:32
@rizen	no i mean "shop" vs "store"	23:32
xdanger	Shop is something that many recognices...	23:33
xdanger	it's more friendly	23:33
@rizen	k	23:33
ckotil	what about 'Online Store'	23:41
ckotil	what were you researching CAS for?	23:41
ckotil	we have been thinking of dumping CAS and switchign to Cosign	23:41
@rizen	since it's on our site i think "Online" would be redundant	23:42
ckotil	but if its a problem of clarity, it would solve that	23:43
@rizen	i want to implement some single sign on stuff into webgui so that it can be better integrated into various enterprises and also so that you can single sign on between various webgui sites	23:43
ckotil	right on.	23:43
ckotil	single sign on between sights has been a problem for me	23:43
ckotil	between domains really	23:43
ckotil	even tho i have a single webgui instance for multiple domains, since the cookies are separate from one another it forces users to click the cas login button everytime they switch domains	23:44
ckotil	dunno an elegant solution for that.	23:45
@rizen	ah, well i have a solution for that now	23:45
@rizen	it's built in to 7.4	23:45
ckotil	awsome	23:45
@rizen	you can see it in action on plainblack.com right now	23:45
@rizen	in the upper right corner you can click on the webgui icon	23:45
@rizen	and it will single sign you on to the webgui.org domain	23:46
@rizen	completely transparent to the user	23:46
ckotil	very nice.	23:46
ckotil	you think it will play nicely with my CAS.pm authentication plugin/	23:46
@rizen	it's a quick and dirty solution for multiple sites on the same database	23:46
ckotil	thats my setup	23:46
@rizen	oh yeah, your cas plugin won't even know about this	23:47
@rizen	it will work perfectly	23:47
ckotil	sweet.	23:47
@rizen	you're welcome to pull the changes you need out of svn and apply them to 7.3.18 if you want	23:47
ckotil	im tempted to	23:47
ckotil	if only i had the same multi domain setup on my dev site	23:48
ckotil	ill just wait for the official release	23:48
@rizen	https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/revision/?rev=4181	23:48
@rizen	coolio	23:48
ckotil	interesting..only 3 files	23:48
ckotil	hehe tempting	23:48
@rizen	it's quite elegant	23:49
@rizen	only about 15 lines of code in all	23:49
ckotil	are you manipulating the cookie?	23:49
@rizen	nope	23:49
@rizen	it's all done inside the webgui session system	23:49
ckotil	cool.	23:50
@rizen	i just link the session from one domain to the other one	23:50
@rizen	so that you can use the same session in both domains	23:50
ckotil	thats great.	23:50
--- Day changed Mon Jun 11 2007
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+crythias	ok. What did I miss?	00:11
@rizen	only everything	00:11
+crythias	Figures. No more forum on pb.com?	00:12
@rizen	we talked about the new pb/wg sites, single sign on	00:12
@rizen	opinions were asked for and given	00:12
@rizen	the world came to an end and then began again	00:12
@rizen	the only forum on plainblack.com is the support forum	00:12
@rizen	all community stuff has been moved to the other site	00:12
+crythias	other... site?	00:13
@rizen	click the wg logo in the upper right corner of pb	00:13
+crythias	man, I have been out of it.	00:13
+crythias	ok, so ... no autoredirect for www.plainblack.com/discuss? bummer :(	00:14
@rizen	i can do that quick	00:14
@rizen	just didn't think about it	00:14
+crythias	webgi.org conference logo is beauty, but goes nowhere.	00:16
+crythias	webgui.org...	00:16
@rizen	the site's not done yet	00:17
+crythias	:) ok.	00:17
@rizen	we're doing it over the weekend so it's ready on monday	00:17
+crythias	ah.	00:17
@rizen	you'll note that the front page has no content either	00:17
+crythias	lo siento	00:17
@rizen	there, your redirect is in place	00:17
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+crythias	:)	00:21
wgGuest78	what does it take to get ops on this channel	00:21
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ckotil	...	00:25
@preaction	i need to find an IRC client that will warn me about clones	00:26
ckotil	http://irssi.org/scripts/scripts/clones.pl	00:32
@rizen	just so you can catch me when i do evil things?	00:51
@preaction	you didn't even give me time to come up with an appropriately witty response	00:51
@rizen	i figured if i hung around too long someone would catch on to me	00:51
ckotil	i was typing a response	00:52
ckotil	ya, then i noticed the ip	00:52
@preaction	you don't know about /whowas <nick> ?	00:52
@rizen	so i take it your computer is all fixed	00:53
@preaction	colloquy doesn't support it, but if you open the server console you can see the reply	00:53
ckotil	ohh whowas, thats new to me	00:53
ckotil	i use irssi	00:53
ckotil	it rocks	00:53
@preaction	yeah, 6 hours of driving and mucking about with my car, 4 hours of driving, 10 seconds in the store to pick up the A/C adapter	00:53
ckotil	ive got one of those ;)	00:54
ckotil	i take the laptop w/ gps along with me on long trips	00:54
@preaction	ooh, that's a good idea	00:54
ckotil	it rocks , i use M$ trips 2007	00:55
ckotil	im planning on getting that iphone, might make my laptop/gps setup obsolete	00:55
@preaction	i hear supply shortages, so i'm not going to hold my breath for one	00:56
ckotil	yeah..	00:56
ckotil	i think work is placing a bulk order on some	00:56
ckotil	i hope that pulls through	00:56
@rizen	i'm going to be camping out to get one	00:58
ckotil	nice	01:01
ckotil	heading out to a bbq.	01:04
+Radix_	rizen: can you rank my RFE when you get a chance - http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/ability-to-move-changes-from-one-version-tag-to-another#8IN0PZcA38N4nAE3-6i7kg	01:49
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perlDreame1	I need somebody with 7.4 running to help me verify a bug.	01:50
perlDreame1	According to wG, Admin's uiLevel is 5	01:50
perlDreame1	even though in the db it says that it is 9	01:50
perlDreame1	There's an easy way to test it	01:50
perlDreame1	Fire up wG	01:50
perlDreame1	Turn on Admin	01:50
perlDreame1	then check the New Content section of the Admin Bar	01:50
perlDreame1	if you don't have the SQL Report in that list, then the UI level is not 9	01:51
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xdanger	So I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.	02:42
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@rizen	that means that you're trying to run setApproved on the workflow activity	03:56
@rizen	when you need to run it on the version tag	03:57
@rizen	you're doing $self->setApproved	03:57
@rizen	you need $versionTag->setApproved;	03:57
@rizen	or rather...not you..but the workflow engine	03:58
@rizen	i'm looking at the code for that module though	03:58
@rizen	and it looks good	03:58
@rizen	nevermind	03:59
@rizen	i think i see what's going on here	04:00
@rizen	xdanger, are you even still here?	04:00
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SDuensin	Greetings.	04:03
@rizen	howdy	04:03
SDuensin	Hey bud.	04:04
@rizen	radix: don't know if you're here or not	04:40
@rizen	but if you are check out webgui.org	04:40
@rizen	your new people behind webgui banner is BAD ASS	04:41
@rizen	you almost look like a super hero	04:41
vayde	looks sweet	04:42
+Radix-wrk	hehe	04:42
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+Radix-wrk	I am a super hero ;)	04:43
+Radix-wrk	"wG hero"! :)	04:43
+Radix-wrk	:)	04:45
@rizen	what do you guys think of the new wg site?	04:45
+Radix-wrk	I like it, though the logo blends in with the yellow a bit much I think	04:46
+Radix-wrk	White on Yellow isn't that easy to read	04:46
+Radix-wrk	http://webgui.org/uploads/LK/h9/LKh9er8DR3b1qsuuw0FdkA/corner.jpg	04:47
vayde	yeah, you have to squint to read it	04:47
+Radix-wrk	"Web Done Right" - should be in black I reckon	04:47
@rizen	i've passed your feedback on to our designer	04:47
@rizen	actually though	04:48
@rizen	i was talking more about the ability to find things	04:48
@rizen	now that "community" has been seperated from "content"	04:48
+Radix-wrk	Love the new menu structure on the side	04:48
@rizen	s/content/commerce/	04:49
+Radix-wrk	Much easier to navigate around in	04:49
+Radix-wrk	Are you going to add a section for webgui hosting companies (including plainblack obviously) anywhere?	04:50
@rizen	maybe	04:51
@rizen	i guess it would depend upon what the community wants...and how it benefits us	04:51
@rizen	we have been talking about letting other webgui professionals buy banners in the space where your super hero banner is	04:52
@rizen	radix do you host sites for people?	05:04
@rizen	is that why you asked?	05:04
+Radix-wrk	kinda	05:06
+Radix-wrk	I've just started a sideline - doing a few sites for family/friends really atm and hoping to do more in future	05:07
+Radix-wrk	I'm using webgui for it all, and enjoying doing it so far	05:07
+Radix-wrk	it's very small scale at the moment.. just in my spare time - and will be like that for a while I suspect	05:08
+Radix-wrk	atm an advert would be too much for me right now, I've got more than enough work to last me until I go to europe - but perhaps in future	05:09
@rizen	i always have to weigh these types of decisions...and they always hurt	05:13
@rizen	on one hand, it probably would be good for community growth if we provided a list of hosters somewhere	05:13
@rizen	and what's good for the community is usually good for plain black, though in varing degrees	05:13
@rizen	on the other hand, i have to look out for a number 1: plain black, cuz without pb turning a profit, there is no webgui, and therefore no community	05:14
+Radix-wrk	Yeah, I completely understand	05:14
+Radix-wrk	I'm not really fussed either way, was just asking really.	05:15
@rizen	i know	05:16
+Radix-wrk	Atm there doesn't even seem to be any links to you guys even for custom devel/hosting	05:16
@rizen	but these kinds of questions vex me regardless of the intent of the person asking	05:16
+Radix-wrk	Yeah, I know	05:16
@rizen	there are at least two links to us on every page	05:17
@rizen	upper right corner, and the copyright	05:17
@rizen	but no, there's no real advertising of our services on this site	05:17
@rizen	the idea behind the split was to make this the "community's" web site	05:17
@rizen	so community stuff goes here	05:17
@rizen	and plain black services stuff goes on our site	05:17
+Radix-wrk	yep	05:17
@rizen	its a pretty stark contrast to anything we've ever done before	05:18
@rizen	i hope it works out in our favor	05:18
@rizen	"our" being both pb and the community	05:18
+Radix-wrk	yup	05:18
+Radix-wrk	I do too :)	05:18
ckotil	it sounds like a good idea	05:19
vayde	succeed or fail, ya gotta try new things	05:19
@rizen	over the next six months we're going to be doing a lot of new things that no one has ever seen us do before	05:19
@rizen	internally it's called the plan of 8	05:19
@rizen	8 big changes	05:19
@rizen	and this is number 1	05:19
+Radix-wrk	sounds interesting :)	05:20
ckotil	awsome.	05:20
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@rizen	radix	08:53
+Radix-wrk	yes?	08:53
@rizen	talked it over with our director of operations...and i think we are going to allow a list of hosters on the site	08:54
@rizen	for free	08:54
@rizen	i shouldn't say "I think", I should say, "we are"	08:54
+Radix-wrk	Sounds good	08:54
@rizen	it's going to be in the form of a wiki page so people can add themselves to the list	08:55
+Radix-wrk	I thought of that earlier when we were talking about it.. long as people respect the wiki and don't go adding themselves to the top of the list and stuff	08:55
+Radix-wrk	that'd be my only fear with that	08:56
@rizen	I'm going to put some instructions in the wiki page...hopefully people will follow the instructions.	08:56
@rizen	if not, we'll have to kill the page	08:56
+Radix-wrk	Why not just add a page that you control and an email method for ppl to add themselves?	08:57
@rizen	because we don't want to have an approval process on it. the act of doing that is almost like an endorsement of their service	08:57
@rizen	and we're not going to vet the hosters	08:57
+Radix-wrk	I suppose a wiki is more manageable and yeah, fair enough	08:57
+Radix-wrk	always a chance that people will regard that as censorship, etc, etc..	08:58
+Radix-wrk	Okey.. well when it gets set up I'll put my name down I guess ;)	08:58
+Radix-wrk	Been enjoying doing a few websites from scratch with webgui lately - not really done that much before	08:59
@rizen	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/hosters	09:05
@rizen	hopefully the rules are clear enough	09:06
@rizen	and hopefully people will follow them	09:06
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. alphabetical huh.. then mine would be on top	09:06
@rizen	that's good news for you	09:06
+Radix-wrk	no no.. I'm too small and too busy at the moment :)	09:07
+Radix-wrk	I'll add myself later when there's more people for me to get lost in :)	09:07
@rizen	i think the only fair way to do it is alphabetically	09:07
+Radix-wrk	Yeah, makes sense.	09:07
+Radix-wrk	Do you remember the website theme that I won the recent style contest with? See if you recognise it now - http://tenpart.juga.biz/	09:10
@rizen	it looks pretty similar, just with a logo and a little color chnage	09:11
@rizen	it was a good design	09:11
+Radix-wrk	it's site I'm doing for my step-dad's band	09:11
@rizen	they have a cool logo	09:11
+Radix-wrk	yeah, it's a beautiful style to work with	09:11
@rizen	it's good that you can reuse your work like that	09:12
+Radix-wrk	yup - that's why I love webgui so much - it lets me reuse stuff :)	09:12
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pjesi	morning	13:05
pjesi	did you move everything to the wiki?	13:10
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@rizen	define "everything"	18:00
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+perlDreamer	morning folks	18:45
@rizen	morning	18:49
ckotil	hello	18:50
+perlDreamer	what's happening in the www? (Wide World of WebGUI)	18:51
ckotil	Things are running smooth for me.	18:52
+perlDreamer	ckotil: would you mind manually running a wG test for me?	18:53
+perlDreamer	You'd need to have a copy of 7.4 laying around.	18:53
+perlDreamer	If you don't, then it wouldn't work.	18:53
ckotil	sure thing	18:54
ckotil	i dont mind doing it on my dev instance	18:54
+perlDreamer	head over to /data/WebGUI/t	18:54
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SDuensin	Greetings.	18:57
+perlDreamer	howdy	18:57
+perlDreamer	Seen the new webgui.org website?	18:57
SDuensin	Yep. I wasn't ready for it last night and nearly went blind!	18:58
@rizen	what?	18:58
SDuensin	All that yellow in a dark room!	18:58
@rizen	pd, should have my wre working in the next few minutes	18:58
+perlDreamer	sweet!	18:59
+perlDreamer	I did some digging around last night, and it sound like my NMI problem may be hardware related, or it could be just X.org having problems.	19:00
+perlDreamer	Some people said it was memory.	19:01
@rizen	you said that if i log in with admin	19:19
@rizen	i won't see sql report	19:19
@rizen	right?	19:19
@rizen	cuz of the ui level problem?	19:19
+perlDreamer	That's one way to see the problem.	19:20
+perlDreamer	The other way is to run t/Session.t	19:20
@rizen	i do see the sql report	19:20
@rizen	running the test now	19:20
@rizen	all tests successful	19:21
@rizen	checked out full svn at 10:30am (central) and reset the database at that time	19:22
+perlDreamer	I'll close the bug then.	19:22
+perlDreamer	It would be cool to get a new laptop, but expensive	19:26
+perlDreamer	I wonder what service times and costs are like...	19:26
ckotil	get a macbook pro and dont worry about service	19:26
+perlDreamer	I'm a self-avowed linux bigot.	19:27
ckotil	osx is similiar to unix and you get an awsome gui	19:28
ckotil	toss parallels into the mix and you have one of the most versative OS's ever	19:28
ckotil	im installing vista as we speak to my mac	19:28
ckotil	windows xp runs better on the mac that it does on my desktop at home	19:29
+perlDreamer	I've heard OSX is very, very cool, but I prefer to run free software.	19:30
ckotil	me too	19:30
ckotil	most of it is free	19:30
@rizen	gotta go, be back in a bit	19:35
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wjw61	hungry?	20:08
@RizenHasTheMunch	yup...must go to lunch soon	20:09
wjw61	When you get back, I have a few questions... will watch for you here...	20:09
@RizenHasTheMunch	are they short?	20:10
wjw61	probably not... :-)	20:10
@RizenHasTheMunch	hehe	20:10
wjw61	lol	20:10
@RizenHasTheMunch	ok	20:10
@RizenHasTheMunch	so as i was walking out the door i realised i don't have time to go out for lunch cuz i have a meeting at 1pm	20:17
@RizenHasTheMunch	then i looked in my kitchen and realised i didn't have any good food cuz i haven't been to the store in a week and a half	20:17
@RizenHasTheMunch	so i'm going to have to settle for 2 carrots and a bowl of cereal	20:18
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@rizen	go ahead and ask your question	20:18
wjw61	I noticed a new binary for ubuntu feisty .... have had some trouble getting CVS_XS to compile... does the new binary include it?	20:19
@rizen	no	20:20
@rizen	it is wre 0.7.2, so it's the same as all other versions of that release	20:20
@rizen	has the same modules	20:20
wjw61	ok... will probably install it anyway... but won't be a priority now... next item...	20:21
wjw61	I suspect I made by modifying the dev.localhost.localdomain site when playing around. I think I should have made a new site and left dev.x.x alone...	20:22
@rizen	are you saying your broke dev.localhost?	20:23
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wjw61	no.. it works just fine...	20:23
@rizen	the sentence above doesn't make any sense	20:23
@rizen	reread then clarify	20:24
wjw61	what I am attempting to do is have /data/WebGUI be controlled via svn. When I check out however, mod-perl breaks...	20:24
+crythias	that's like spooky	20:25
wjw61	I have yet to track down why it won't start with a fresh svn update... perhaps I should not check out from HEAD?	20:25
@rizen	do these steps	20:25
@rizen	cd /data/	20:25
@rizen	mv WebGUI WebGUI.old	20:25
@rizen	svn co https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/WebGUI	20:25
@rizen	cp WebGUI.old/etc/*.conf WebGUI/etc/	20:26
@rizen	cd sbin	20:26
@rizen	perl testEnvironment.pl	20:26
@rizen	that last bit should tell you if you're missing any perl modules	20:26
wjw61	ok,... this is what I have been doing, but will give it a shot again.. brb	20:28
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@rizen	if testEnvironment.pl fails to install the perl modules then you should do it the old fashioned way	20:28
@rizen	cpan	20:28
@rizen	install PMName	20:28
wjw61	..:-) yup.. tried that too... they fail to compile...	20:29
wjw61	... will however attempt it again...	20:30
xdanger	rizen: you had a suggestion to my problem?	20:32
@rizen	refresh my memory, what is your problem?	20:32
xdanger	< xdanger> So I have a cs with CommitWithApproval.. and when I'm trying to commit, it warns that: Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::VersionTag::www_approveVersionTag. Root cause: Can't locate object method "setApproved" via package "WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::CommitVersionTag" at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm line 63.	20:33
@rizen	oh right well the problem is that it's trying to execute setApproved on the CommitVersionTag activity, except that its the wrong activity. it should be doing that on the RequestApprovalForVersionTag activity	20:35
@rizen	i looked through the code and couldn't figure out why it would get into the state that it's in	20:35
@rizen	so the only thing i'm left with is either you've discovered a massive bug in the workflow engine that nobody else has discovered in a year of using it	20:36
@rizen	or you have edited your workflows in such a way that they are no longer working properly	20:36
@rizen	i suppose there could be also something that i'm just not seeing, but those seem to be the most likely options	20:37
wjw61	rizen.. is Config::JSON a relatively new requirement for wre?	20:46
@rizen	yes. it's not even a requirement for wre 0.7.2	20:51
@rizen	only for 0.8.0	20:51
@rizen	which isn't out yet	20:51
+perlDreamer	--bug	20:51
@rizen	++++++++++++++bug	20:51
wjw61	hmm.. when running testEnvironment.pl.. that is the error I get...	20:51
@rizen	pd, i'm adding bugs faster than you can fix them	20:52
@rizen	right, cuz you're using WebGUI 7.4	20:52
@rizen	which will require WRE 0.8.0	20:52
@rizen	so you'll need to install any new modules that WebGUI requires of you	20:53
@rizen	cuz 7.4 will have new requirements	20:53
+perlDreamer	7.4 will require Wine, Samba, Bind, Sendmail and M5	20:54
+perlDreamer	we rewrote it in Fortran for speed	20:54
wjw61	ok.. will have to troubleshoot the install of Config::JSON then.. it will not compile here for some reason..	20:55
@rizen	there's nothing to even compile	20:55
@rizen	i wrote it	20:55
@rizen	its a pure perl modules	20:56
@rizen	type "which perl" at your command line right now	20:56
@rizen	and tell me what you get	20:56
wjw61	/usr/bin/perl... hmmm... that's not right!	20:57
@rizen	yeah	20:57
@rizen	. /data/wre/sbin/setenvironment	20:57
@rizen	then type cpan	20:57
@rizen	i bet things go better	20:57
@rizen	the dot space at the beginning is significant	20:57
wjw61	yes.. I actually have the in my .profile.. not being picked up... will examine that later...	20:58
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xdanger	rizaway: I have the default workflow in place...	23:35
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 12 2007
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@khenn	anyone here know what would cause data to be archived in the SQL Form?	00:50
@khenn	it seems to be a mysterious process	00:51
+perlDreamer	no clue, khenn	00:51
+perlDreamer	You need to talk to MHG	00:51
@khenn	figured as much	00:51
@khenn	thanks	00:52
+perlDreamer	on a quick look, it looks like old data is archived whenever new data is saved	00:53
+perlDreamer	see line 2809	00:53
+perlDreamer	You should be able to back trace the @updates array from there.	01:10
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@rizen	xdanger, i'm afraid that trying to discover what's going on with your site is more than i have time for. either post a bug report with instructions on how to replicate, or take it up in our support board and someone will figure it out with you.	01:13
xdanger	I'm gonna have a look at it myself when I have time...	01:14
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+MrHairgrease	hey guys	01:14
+MrHairgrease	wanna have a laugh	01:14
@rizen	howdy	01:14
+MrHairgrease	some guy dared to reply his to me	01:15
+MrHairgrease	ok, i will try to show to some one. but for me it's absolutely ok with English too.	01:15
+MrHairgrease	He also is very sure that sentences without verbs are considered to be correct in the English speaking part of the world	01:16
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wjw61	ahhhhh... and things work!!	01:18
@rizen	that's funny mhg	01:31
@rizen	how is it exactly that you structure a sentence without a verb	01:31
@rizen	what action could take place?	01:32
@rizen	i guess it would be a sentence like "the dumb brown cow."	01:32
@rizen	but then you have to ask yourself, "WHAT?" about the dumb brown cow	01:32
@rizen	nice job wjw	01:32
wjw61	:-)	01:33
wjw61	keeps one guessing ...	01:33
wjw61	.. yet another sentence without a subject..	01:34
+MrHairgrease	rizen: i asked the guy that question, and he replied with:	01:34
+MrHairgrease	yeah, i read it hundreds times and it were ok.	01:34
@rizen	but even that has a verb	01:37
@rizen	"read"	01:38
+MrHairgrease	the sentence i referred to was: 'A molecule with an inner conductive part	01:39
+MrHairgrease	57 (delocalized $\pi$-electron systems) connected to an electrode.'	01:39
+MrHairgrease	ignore the 57	01:39
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+perlDreamer	khenn, you just missed Martin	02:05
@khenn	crap	02:06
@khenn	I figured I wouldn't see him till tomorrow	02:06
@khenn	it is after midnight in the netherlands afterall =p	02:06
@khenn	guess he just got home from the pub	02:06
+perlDreamer	It's hard being Eurotrash	02:09
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@rizen	hey lucy, you got some splainin to do	03:20
@preaction	pray you aren't calling me girls names now?	03:29
@rizen	whatever betty	03:51
@preaction	rizen: i'm loathe to do this, but i think spectre's cron isn't responding anymore. until i know why i don't want to restart it, but i can't see anything symptomatic.	03:56
@preaction	i can force jobs to run, and they'll run, but nothing gets started by the scheduler itself	03:56
@preaction	i ran into this problem on a client site as well, and restarting spectre seemed to fix it	03:57
@rizen	well you might as well restart it cuz we don't have any real troubleshooting mechanisms to look inside the scheduler	03:57
@rizen	maybe i need to build in stuff to do it, like i did with workflow	03:58
@preaction	a way to connect to the process and read what it's doing? like listening on a socket?	04:00
@rizen	perl spectre.pl --status	04:01
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@rizen	it tells you what's going on with workflow	04:01
@rizen	at least enough that you can troubleshoot what's going on with the system	04:01
@rizen	if i did the same for cron i think we'd be goo	04:02
@rizen	good	04:02
@rizen	plus...i made it so no matter how many times it errored, workflows keep running	04:02
@rizen	so that way once they get corrected we're all good	04:02
@rizen	i should do the same for cron	04:02
@preaction	do cron jobs have a "last run" datetime?	04:03
@rizen	i'd have to look, i don't think so	04:03
@preaction	doesn't look like it, but that might be a good idea as well	04:04
@rizen	right, that would be required to work with --status	04:05
@preaction	once a cron job is posted, it behaves like a normal instance, no?	04:05
@rizen	probably along with a few other things	04:05
@rizen	just like i did with workflow	04:05
@rizen	yes	04:05
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+Radix-wrk	anyone awake?	06:44
@rizen	no	06:45
+Radix-wrk	macro documentation.. where can I find out how to do this?	06:48
@rizen	wiki	06:48
+Radix-wrk	I haven't been able to find it using search at all	06:49
+Radix-wrk	umm.. not creating a macro	06:49
+Radix-wrk	I mean documenting a macro I've written - ie help files I guess	06:49
@rizen	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/macro-development-tutorial	06:53
@rizen	oh	06:53
@rizen	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/the-help-system	06:54
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. that works for macros as well as assets?	06:55
@rizen	anything you want to put in the help	06:55
@rizen	http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/internationalization	06:55
+Radix-wrk	k.. I guess I can use an existing one as a basis.. cheers :)	06:55
+Radix-wrk	no text in this macro, but four parameters - three optional which I wanted to document somewhere other than in the code ;)	06:55
@rizen	yeah, but you need to use i18n in order to build help	06:56
@rizen	they are linked	06:56
+Radix-wrk	Working on my first entry for the macro contest :)	06:56
+Radix-wrk	k	06:56
+Radix-wrk	cheers	06:56
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SDuensin	Good morning.	15:56
ckotil	good morning	15:56
SDuensin	Hey ckotil	15:57
ckotil	i tried to install mysql5 via rpms on a RHEL AS4 machine. didnt go so well	15:58
ckotil	had to back it out and go back to 4	15:58
ckotil	so today im gonna attempt it again	15:58
ckotil	w/ pre compiled non rpms	15:58
ckotil	then if that doesnt cut it, ill do it from source	15:58
ckotil	i want to get the db local.	15:58
* SDuensin isn't a big RPM fan.		16:00
ckotil	currently its a couple RU's away	16:00
ckotil	they're nice most of the time	16:00
ckotil	very fast and clean	16:00
ckotil	even the init script screwed up w/ the mysql5 isntall	16:00
ckotil	i should email mysql and let them know.	16:01
pjesi	is it possible to run the sql migration scripts manually?	16:11
AMH_bob	Good morning!	16:11
pjesi	I have the latest sources but the db is not in sync	16:11
pjesi	good morning!	16:11
ckotil	dunno	16:13
pjesi	the CS breaks due to different table structure	16:14
+Radix_	why via rpm's?	16:14
+Radix_	why not use yum?	16:14
SDuensin	Hey AMH_bob, pjesi, Radix_	16:14
+Radix_	Hi SD	16:15
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@rizen	AMH_bob. How's your project coming along?	17:19
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@khenn	anyone seen MHG today?	17:35
ckotil	nope	17:35
pjesi	rizen: any hints on how to run the sql migration scripts after WG has been updated?	17:39
@rizen	what sql migration scripts?	17:40
pjesi	which should be execute by the upgrade scripts	17:41
pjesi	somehow they did not work when I upgraded from 7.3.12 to .18	17:41
@rizen	if they somehow didn't work, then you need to start over and make them work	17:43
@rizen	you can't retroactively apply them, you never know what bad stuff might happen	17:43
AMH_bob	Hi Rizen; the project is going fine... we were all in Amsterdam yesterday, hoping to catch you in person or on a video(conference).	17:44
AMH_bob	But Amsterdam is never a disappointment :P	17:44
pjesi	ok	17:45
@rizen	apparently i was supposed to be speaking there, however, no one told me until yesterday that i was speaking there	17:45
@rizen	methinks the organizers of said conference are not very organized	17:46
@rizen	i offered to come in person back in january, but was told not to because they weren't even sure they were doing a conference	17:47
AMH_bob	No problem, the day wasn't a compleet bust - I always anjoy a good road trip	17:51
AMH_bob	I'm pretty sure something will be set up soon by Robert Heessels.	17:53
@rizen	oh...i've always thought that the bob in AMH_bob = Robert Heessels	17:57
@rizen	i guess not	17:57
AMH_bob	Nope, my name is Robert Broen, but Because we already had a Robert, I became... Bob!	17:58
AMH_bob	Robert Heessels is the managing director, I'm just a humble CMS programmer.	17:59
@rizen	don't say "just", everyone in an organization is important	18:00
AMH_bob	:D	18:02
@rizen	well, everyone except preaction that is	18:02
@rizen	he's completely replaceable	18:02
AMH_bob	I just spoke with Robert; In 1 or 2 weeks he's going to call you to tell you more about our plans;	18:03
AMH_bob	8-)	18:03
@preaction	woot! replaceable!	18:04
AMH_bob	(I should stick up for Ubuntu users like that o:-))	18:04
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AMH_bob	Until next time.... Goodbye!	18:09
@rizen	later	18:10
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+perlDreamer	w00t!	18:35
+perlDreamer	My laptop isn't broken!	18:35
@rizen	bring it over, i'll break it	18:36
* perlDreamer trundles back to home go fetch the laptop		18:36
+perlDreamer	rizen: here's something to occupy you while you're waiting: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/06/mycologist_resources.html	18:37
+perlDreamer	Besides, there's no point in taking it to Wisonsin, you're supposed to be in Europe yesterday, no?	18:39
@rizen	are you suggesting that i need more things to do?	18:39
+perlDreamer	No, just trying to save my laptop =)	18:39
@preaction	i've got a mycology lab next to my shower	18:40
+perlDreamer	better next to, than inside. Or on	18:41
ckotil	theres a fungus amongus	19:01
@preaction	i'm a fun guy	19:03
+perlDreamer	Hard to tell if the ensuing silence was due to the pun, or just standard channel lull	19:25
ckotil	standard lull	19:32
+perlDreamer	Are we supposed to backport all bug fixes from 7.4 to 7.3 Branch?	20:25
@rizen	yes	20:29
@rizen	if they are backportable	20:30
ckotil	you ever see this while running the testEnvironment.pl? a	21:08
ckotil	Verifying database connection: perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so: undefined symbol: DBIc_TRACE_LEVEL	21:08
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+perlDreamer	ckotil: That's comming out of perl and mysql, not out of WebGUI. Sounds like a bad compile of mysql.xs	21:23
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ckotil	yeah.	21:35
* ckotil shakes fist at mysql dev's		21:35
ckotil	they put out bad rpms AND compiled binaries	21:36
ckotil	im just gonna have to wait to upgrade the webserver to RHEL5	21:36
ckotil	that comes with mysql5	21:36
+perlDreamer	silly question. JT uses RHEL4, why not do that?	21:38
ckotil	i hit that roadblock ^^ when trying to go from mysql4 to 5	21:39
ckotil	on RHEL4	21:39
+perlDreamer	use the WRE?	21:40
ckotil	no, already have webgui from source installed. and running	21:40
ckotil	its using a remote db	21:40
ckotil	this is my production machine.	21:40
ckotil	next step would be for me to build mysql5 from source. but i decided to wait to upgrade to rhel5	21:41
ckotil	we built mysql5 from source on our db machine.	21:41
ckotil	it runs rhel4	21:41
+perlDreamer	build the WRE on it, too, but only use the MYSQL component	21:42
+perlDreamer	lunch date with wife, be back later!	21:42
ckotil	ill bet $5 the wre wont build on it ;)	21:43
ckotil	pz	21:43
ckotil	always fails at lftp	21:43
professorfrink_	i've been trying to build a dataform in 7.3.18 and i'm having trouble getting it to export properly -	21:57
professorfrink_	i set up a field with multiple checkbox values, and when i export tab delimited, the values get pushed into other fields	21:58
professorfrink_	i'm viewing it as a .ods spreadsheet	21:58
professorfrink_	it seems to display correctly when i list all entries, and if i view it with a text editor	21:59
@preaction	can you pastebin a sample?	22:08
professorfrink_	actually, i think i figured it out - openoffice and neooffice use the semicolon as a separator, pushing the values to the next column	22:20
professorfrink_	excel doesn't do that, and since everyone who's going to be checking it is going to be using excel, i'm not going to sweat it	22:20
professorfrink_	but that's an FYI, i guess, for those of us who refuse to use microsoft...	22:21
professorfrink_	thanks!	22:21
@rizen	actually you can get oo to use a comma	22:21
@rizen	you just have to tell it that in advance	22:21
professorfrink_	mm, good point	22:22
professorfrink_	yea	22:22
professorfrink_	i didn't set the import filter correctly	22:22
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+perlDreamer	whoa!	23:15
+perlDreamer	new people in the room	23:15
+perlDreamer	Who let that happen?	23:15
ckotil	going for a new World Record	23:16
+perlDreamer	Having a weird sense of deja vu, ckotil. Why not use the precompilied WRE binaries?	23:18
+perlDreamer	to get past the lftp compile problem?	23:18
ckotil	i had a problem with those too.	23:24
ckotil	im happy with running it from source.	23:25
ckotil	sure setup takes a while.	23:25
ckotil	but ive gotten it down to half a day	23:25
ckotil	plus im running RH5 mostly now.	23:26
ckotil	theres no RH5 precompiled binary yet	23:26
--- Day changed Wed Jun 13 2007
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@preaction	i need a new house, with A/C so my darn computers don't die from the heat...	07:58
@rizen	or just buy a window air conditioner for a few hundred bucks	08:33
@preaction	it may work, it may not. most of the problem comes from the large sheet of black rubber next to my windows and screen door (the roof of the garage next to me). it basically bakes this tiny apartment	08:38
@preaction	it will work, it just might cost a bunch in energy	08:38
@rizen	got a river or lake near your house? run a hose to it and a radiator in your appartment	08:51
@rizen	you'll freeze yourself out	08:51
+Radix-wrk	cheaper way is to just use fans and get some circulation going	08:52
+Radix-wrk	or yeah, get a split system aircon	08:53
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+Radix-wrk	Rizen: Cache errors with webgui.org - I log in and get - "Hello Meatbop. Click here to log out. You have 2010 karma to spend. Turn Admin Off!" and full admin control	10:17
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nuba	heh	14:23
AMH_bob	ha	14:25
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:55
@preaction	mornings	15:56
SDuensin	Hi preaction	15:57
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@rizen	radix, you still here?	16:05
AMH_bob	Good morning	16:07
@rizen	good morning	16:07
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preaction_	hmm full dance guard in today	16:19
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+Radix_	rizen: yeah, just about to head off to bed	16:29
@rizen	before you go, could you please explain the circumstances around your cache problem	16:29
@rizen	i need to know if you were physically logged in	16:29
@rizen	or if it was just a cache problem	16:29
+Radix_	All I did was pop webgui.org into firefox	16:30
+Radix_	I hadn't been to the site at all that day	16:30
@rizen	could you continue browsing the site as the other person?	16:30
+Radix_	I didn't stay as meatbop for long	16:30
+Radix_	but I did try turning admin off and that worked	16:30
@rizen	more than one page?	16:30
+Radix_	still showed meatbop and his karma	16:30
@rizen	did you click "log out"	16:30
+Radix_	yeah	16:31
+Radix_	then logged in as me	16:31
@rizen	and after hitting turn admin off you could sttill see his name?	16:31
+Radix_	it loaded in full admin mode tho	16:31
+Radix_	yeah	16:31
@rizen	wtf	16:31
@rizen	this time when you went to the site you went directly there	16:32
@rizen	?	16:32
@rizen	via typing url into browser?	16:32
+Radix_	yup, just typed webgui.org and went straight there	16:32
@rizen	and the last time you went there?	16:32
@rizen	did you go via plainblack.com	16:32
@rizen	?	16:32
+Radix_	yesterday sometime I think	16:32
@rizen	clicking on the icon in the upper right corner?	16:32
+Radix_	I usually have a shortcut for plainblack.com/discuss that I use	16:33
@rizen	so then you were automatically redirected to webgui.org when you used that bookmark	16:33
@rizen	are you sure you used that bookmark?	16:34
+Radix_	I didn't use that bookmark today	16:34
@rizen	no	16:34
@rizen	the last time you went to webgui.org	16:34
+Radix_	yes, I used it last time	16:34
@rizen	ok	16:34
@rizen	hmmm...well i'll have to figure it out	16:34
@rizen	unfortunately nothing you've told me gives me any cluse	16:35
@rizen	clues	16:35
+Radix_	sorry	16:35
@rizen	not your fault	16:35
+Radix_	if it happens again, what should I do?	16:35
@rizen	leave yourself logged in and email me	16:35
@rizen	i'll take a look and see what i can see	16:35
@rizen	i can't imagine how it would happen	16:36
+Radix_	there was a cache bug submitted recently I saw	16:36
@rizen	yeah, but that's not actually a bug, and it only had to do with visitors	16:37
+Radix_	okey.. well I'll leave it in your hands	16:38
@rizen	thanks...sleep well	16:38
+Radix_	if it happens again I'll let ya know :)	16:38
@rizen	it better not happen again	16:38
+Radix_	I've had some funny stuff since the new site tho.. logged in on one page, then logged out on another, etc	16:39
+Radix_	never been logged in as someone else tho	16:39
+Radix_	anyhow.. I'm off to bed.. nite :)	16:39
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@khenn	MrHairgrease: I have a question for you about the SQL Form	18:34
@khenn	specifically, what is archiving and what causes it?	18:34
+MrHairgrease	shoot	18:34
@rizen	don't answer him	18:34
+MrHairgrease	ok	18:34
@rizen	he's tryying to pull a fast one on you	18:34
+MrHairgrease	figure it out yourself =)	18:34
@rizen	hehe	18:34
@rizen	ok i suppose you can answer him	18:34
@rizen	just be careful	18:34
@rizen	frank has shifty eyes	18:34
@khenn	it appears that it only happens when you get a new revision of a row of data	18:34
@khenn	I hate you JT	18:34
+MrHairgrease	the archive bit says that that version of the record is not the newest	18:34
@khenn	DIAF	18:35
@khenn	=p	18:35
@khenn	I thought so	18:35
@khenn	thanks	18:35
+MrHairgrease	np	18:35
@khenn	I think there's a problem with the SQL Form fyi	18:35
@khenn	I'm going to confirm	18:35
@khenn	but I think the query can backfire	18:35
@khenn	you do a "select distinct(xxx), xxx, xxx, xxx from xxx	18:36
@khenn	and I think it may, in some cases, grab the archived record	18:36
@khenn	even if it has a more recent version	18:37
+MrHairgrease	could be	18:37
+MrHairgrease	but that is not what it should do	18:37
@khenn	I'll try to reproduce it	18:37
+MrHairgrease	ok	18:37
ckotil	wheres the dev section now with the new sites?	19:32
ckotil	im looking for the api docs	19:32
ckotil	nvm	19:32
ckotil	www.plainblack.com/dev	19:32
ckotil	doh. that doesnt appear to be it either	19:33
@rizen	everything dev related was moved into the wiki	19:33
ckotil	k	19:33
ckotil	should redirect plainblack.com/dev to the wiki	19:33
@rizen	fuck the fucking fuckers	19:34
ckotil	righton , such a versatile word	19:35
@rizen	indeed	19:36
@rizen	there, it's redirected. are you happy now?	19:42
@rizen	=)	19:42
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wgGuest58	I'm contemplating using WebGUI to run our intranet. Folks routinely drag files to folders on our shared drives. I think getting them to use the webGUI interface to save folder will be too much so I plan to just use links on the pages to the folders. Is this pretty straight forward? the demo version had some defaults that wouldn't let me do this.	22:17
@rizen	yes you can do that	22:19
@rizen	and it's relatively easy to do...if i understand you correctly	22:19
@rizen	i think there's also either a macro or an asset	22:19
@rizen	in the add ons section	22:19
@rizen	that will read a list of files	22:19
@rizen	in a folder	22:20
@rizen	and display links to them in an automated fashion	22:20
@rizen	if i'm wrong, it would be pretty trivial to create such an animal	22:20
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wgGuest58	I suspected as much - thanks for the confirmation. Just to be clear, you say it would	22:21
wgGuest58	be pretty easy to have a macro have the website reflect what's in the folders?	22:21
ckotil	yes.	22:21
wgGuest58	thanks for the help.	22:22
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ckotil	haha, he's from dslindiana	22:22
ckotil	didnt know there was such a thing	22:22
@rizen	must be a regional thing	22:24
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ckotil	they're based in indianapolis	22:33
ckotil	interesing new workflow modes!	22:33
@rizen	what's interesting about them?	22:34
@rizen	btw...have you started checking in your triggers yet?	22:34
ckotil	not sure yet. about to read the floating help screen to see whats new	22:34
ckotil	no, i havent had time to work on them.	22:34
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@rizen	can you let me know if you don't think you'll get them done by the first week of july?	22:35
@rizen	i need them to be in 7.4, so i'll have to do it if you can't	22:35
ckotil	ill squeeze them in before then	22:35
@rizen	k	22:35
ckotil	ill keep you posted.	22:35
@rizen	thanks	22:35
ckotil	np	22:35
ckotil	hrm floating help is too long, it gets hidden by the top of the screen. and i have a fairly high resolution	22:36
@rizen	i'll have to check that out and shorten it then	22:37
ckotil	ya	22:37
@rizen	i was sure i tested that before	22:37
@rizen	what browser are you using?	22:37
ckotil	ff mac	22:37
ckotil	i can try it in ie too	22:37
ckotil	ie7*	22:37
ckotil	and ff windows while im at it	22:38
ckotil	ya its an issue in ff mac/windows, and IE7	22:39
@rizen	starting up my 7.4 install so i can look	22:39
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@rizen	yikes	22:40
@rizen	i guess i was a bit verbose	22:40
ckotil	heh	22:40
ckotil	yeah, how bout 1 -v instead of vvvvvvv	22:40
@rizen	yeah jt, this is a help pop up not a book	22:41
@rizen	=)	22:41
ckotil	im trying to get pending version feedback working. i.e. after approving/denying a pending tag , i want to take my users to the manage pending version tag screen. so far ive been unsuccessful in 7.3.18, so im trying it in 7.4	22:43
ckotil	graham has been working with me. he claims to have gotten it to work. i keep getting the insufficient credientials screen.	22:43
@rizen	have you tried tripple clicking?	22:44
ckotil	I have.	22:45
ckotil	it works fine	22:45
ckotil	my users however cannot	22:45
ckotil	its total bullshit	22:45
ckotil	they want me to write a script to list out all the pending version tags if i cannot get webgui to play nicely. (i know it will eventually)	22:45
ckotil	but jeezus, they are so needy!	22:45
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ckotil	i blame myself. you give them an inch and they take a mile	22:47
@rizen	i don't know exactly what you're trying to do but if i do understand it, then it sounds trivial	22:48
@rizen	and if graham made it work quickly you could just ask him for the code to do it	22:49
ckotil	it does seem trivial	22:49
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ckotil	and while i havent seen his code yet, it was only a couple lines that were edited. and really they were just substituted	22:50
ckotil	which is making me think some other modification i made is screwing it up.	22:50
@rizen	you should just ask him for the code	22:52
ckotil	i will.	22:53
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@rizen	there, i have decreased my verbosity	22:56
@rizen	and still got the message across	22:56
ckotil	cool	22:56
@rizen	technically there is only one new mode	22:57
@rizen	it's just that i gave functionality that was already there a name	22:57
@rizen	parallel, singleton, and serial modes already existed, they just weren't as neatly specified	22:58
ckotil	ya, i like it.	22:59
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ckotil	http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9729116-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5	23:44
ckotil	nooo!!	23:44
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--- Day changed Thu Jun 14 2007
@rizen	are you telling me you don't already have an itunes account?	00:04
ckotil	correct.	00:04
@rizen	what kind of lame @$$ #&#&$# #&#& #&$$(&@^&$ &*# # doesn't have at least one ipod and an itunes account	00:05
@rizen	o did i say that out loud	00:05
@rizen	sorry	00:05
@rizen	retract previous statement	00:05
ckotil	i guess me	00:05
ckotil	i dont have an ipod either	00:05
ckotil	and i assumed iphone had gps...it doesnt.	00:05
@rizen	do you have an mp3 player?	00:05
ckotil	i used to have an archos jbmm20	00:05
@rizen	iphone has gps	00:05
ckotil	it left a sour taste in my mouth.	00:06
ckotil	you sure?	00:06
ckotil	ive read it doesnt.	00:06
@rizen	i don't know if it has "gps capabilities" but all phones have gps	00:06
@rizen	it's the law	00:06
ckotil	well yeah.	00:06
ckotil	fcc requires it.	00:06
ckotil	maybe it will use gps from the tower.	00:07
ckotil	im just getting cold feet.	00:09
@rizen	there are many reasons not to buy it	00:17
@rizen	no third party apps, expensive, no gps	00:17
@rizen	but there are also lots of reasons to buy it	00:17
@rizen	one device that does it all, it's cool, it "just works", it does most everything you'd need without third party apps	00:18
@rizen	i'm going to use mine as a laptop replacement	00:19
@rizen	almost everywhere i go i take my laptop, for example, to perl mongers meetings	00:19
@rizen	but i don't actually use my laptop there for anything that the iphone can't do	00:19
@rizen	i also take my ipod and my digital camera with me	00:19
ckotil	third part support was confirmed.	00:20
@rizen	i'll use digital camera on the phone to take pictures, record the audio track using the ipod on the phone, and use the built in web browser if i need to look something up, or bookmark something	00:20
@rizen	the only third party support you have are web browser apps	00:21
@rizen	not real apps	00:21
ckotil	ugh	00:21
@rizen	granted, web browser apps are pretty cool	00:21
ckotil	well, thats better than nothin.	00:21
ckotil	javascript enabled, safari aps	00:21
@rizen	and they do integrate with the phone	00:21
@rizen	so you can touch a phone number and it will start a call	00:21
@rizen	etc	00:21
@rizen	but yeah, you can't install anything on the phone	00:21
ckotil	gotcha.	00:22
ckotil	it will be cool to look up a number via online yellow pages and hit call.	00:22
@rizen	i think it's because they want everyone to have a "perfect'" experience with the phone...without other apps to slow it down or make it crash	00:22
@rizen	yeah..that's the thing they demo'd at the conference this week	00:22
@rizen	they built a web interface to the ldap repo at apple	00:23
@rizen	and then you could see people's photos, managers, phone numbers, email addresses, and physical addresses	00:23
ckotil	not to shabby	00:23
@rizen	and clicking on email addresses and phone numbers did the right thing	00:23
@rizen	it's cool for sure...but you can't integrate to the camera with that	00:24
@rizen	or any of the other hardware components	00:24
@rizen	so i guess it's only "half" cool from that perspective	00:25
@rizen	but still...the phone is amazing as far as i'm concerned. way better than the phone i have now	00:25
@rizen	and like i said...when i go places, i no longer have to bring laptop + phone + ipod + camera	00:25
ckotil	yah, thats the big selling point for me	00:26
@rizen	honestly the only app i wish it had that it doesn't is ssh	00:26
@rizen	so if i absolutely had to, i could fix a server from my phone	00:26
ckotil	no doubt.	00:27
ckotil	thatd be a god send.	00:27
ckotil	i hope to have something like that SOON.	00:27
ckotil	before i move out west , for when im on the slopes skiing and a server goes down	00:27
* ckotil sighs		00:28
ckotil	some day..	00:28
ckotil	its about that time. heading home.	00:29
@rizen	later	00:29
+perlDreamer	ckotil, found a thread that might interest you...	01:03
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/wrebuild-error-on-lftp/re-wrebuild-error-on-lftp#idAtUdPPvxrg4jUdkrNgys-g	01:03
+perlDreamer	these guys had lftp build problems. They needed a new ncurses-dev	01:03
+perlDreamer	bug fix pending...	01:19
+perlDreamer	rizen: I've just finalized my bug fix for this one:	02:00
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/uploaded-file-sizes-wrong#8ao9yNQrxFyJNTUaU7ARPA	02:00
+perlDreamer	I now need to write a script to fix all the borken assets in the db with the wrong size	02:00
+perlDreamer	should I update or commit changes like that?	02:00
+perlDreamer	The upgrade script could run for a long time, since it needs to iterate over all File and Image assets.	02:09
+perlDreamer	--bug	02:09
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+Radix_	pfft.. my windows mobile phone can do everything that the iphone does.. AND it can do ssh ;)	02:39
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nuba	huh. there's pssh for palm, too	02:43
+Radix_	yeah, but palm is dead ;)	02:44
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nuba	well mine is quite alive	03:31
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nuba	but that's because of pssh, mostly	03:51
nuba	ie. i never found a mail client for palm better than pine	03:53
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vayde	Gah! I just saw an END block inside of a BEGIN block inside of an IF block	05:49
* vayde shudders		05:49
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pjesi	phew, I managed to fix my mess	15:05
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SDuensin	Howdy.	15:33
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AMH_bob	Good morning!	16:11
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SDuensin	Hey AMH_bob	16:15
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AMH_bob	Bake from my break - playing table fussball	16:33
AMH_bob	eh, back	16:34
AMH_bob	I'm pumping out production templates right now... about 25 templates in 5 colors each - party time!	16:35
SDuensin	Fun.	16:35
AMH_bob	:P	16:35
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SDuensin	Hmmm... Interesting...	03:41
SDuensin	I selected six MP3 files, cut them to the clipboard. Went to another location in the Asset Manager. Checked an item, clicked Delete...	03:41
SDuensin	Went somewhere else in the Asset Manager. Then I was going to paste the MP3s... They're gone! Nowhere to be found!	03:42
SDuensin	They're not in the trash, not on the clipboard, not in any revisions.	03:42
SDuensin	I searched the Asset Manager. Nope.	03:42
SDuensin	Did a "locate" on the drive. They're still there. Ran rebuildLineage for fun. No dice.	03:43
nuba	guess webgui now has DRM.. and it blocks people from making copies of mp3 files ;)	03:43
SDuensin	WTF happened?	03:43
* SDuensin introduces WebGUI to the Creative Commons. :-)		03:43
nuba	probably RIAA posted a RFE while no one was looking	03:44
SDuensin	I can reupload them to WebGUI, but I don't want to confuse it if it thinks they're still out there somewhere.	03:44
+Radix-wrk	wierd	03:45
+Radix-wrk	the location you deleted tho..	03:46
+Radix-wrk	was it the directory where the mp3's were stored?	03:46
nuba	try a find /data/ -type f -iname "*mp3" to see if you can spot it in the directory tree	03:46
+Radix-wrk	if you delete the parent - regardless of whether the items were on the clipboard or not, the children are deleted too	03:47
+Radix-wrk	try checking your trash and system trash	03:47
SDuensin	Not in the trash. I don't think they were children. Maybe though.	03:48
SDuensin	If I move them out of /data/, should I delete the folders they're in, or will that cause chaos?	03:49
+Radix-wrk	is the parent item still in the trash?	03:49
+Radix-wrk	or the item you deleted earlier	03:49
SDuensin	DOH! Yes. I'm an idiot.	03:50
SDuensin	Thank you. :-)	03:50
+Radix-wrk	if so, I'd try restoring that item	03:50
+Radix-wrk	so the mp3's came back? :)	03:50
SDuensin	Yes.	03:50
+Radix-wrk	cool	03:50
+Radix-wrk	move them - then delete it ;)	03:51
+Radix-wrk	webgui's copy to clipboard doesn't actually move the files at all - just tags them	03:51
SDuensin	Good idea. :-)	03:51
+Radix-wrk	so if you delete the parent while they're on the clipboard, they go too	03:51
+Radix-wrk	can be confusing if you're not aware of it I know ;)	03:52
SDuensin	I knew better. I've seen other people ask the same thing.	03:52
+Radix-wrk	Sometimes it takes personal experience to teach a lesson ;)	03:53
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SDuensin	FRIDAY!	15:38
ckotil	indeed. and hwat used to be payday	15:53
ckotil	i got bumped to monthyly salary	15:54
ckotil	still waiting for my first huge check.	15:54
SDuensin	Money is good. :-)	15:55
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+crythias	ah, yeah. It's me. we can all scatter, now.	21:21
@rizen	nobody scatters from you, we all scatter to you, and hump your leg like a little puppy	21:29
@rizen	=)	21:29
+crythias	I kick y'all off with derision.	21:29
+crythias	and wipe the stains from my pant leg.	21:29
@rizen	FYI, if any of you are coming to the WUC this year, add yourself to the wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/community	22:38
@rizen	and and let us know if you want to set up any BOFS http://www.plainblack.com/wuc/wiki/bofs	22:38
@rizen	so we can make arrangements for rooms to be available	22:39
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+crythias	Interesting. it's not quite clear when the wuc is, ... click the schedule, it says, "Day 1" ... Click Hotel it says Rates... Click Registration and you get the badge .. thing.	00:16
+crythias	ok, well, I meant, if you started on the links ^^^	00:17
+crythias	If I might make a suggestion, put the dates so they end up in the title of the page.	00:18
+crythias	oh, and rizen, get off my leg :-P	00:22
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+perlDreamer	Guys, we need to find a way to get Tina Gasperson to write about WebGUI instead of metadot	00:39
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+perlDreamer	http://business.newsforge.com/business/07/06/07/207245.shtml?tid=132&tid=3	00:44
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nuba	getting an error with that url.. >The failure reason is: xarDB_init: Failed to connect to xarmysql://xardba@xaraya-db-2/lc_live1, error message: Too many connections	01:27
nuba	looks like their Xaraya (just found out its a postnuke fork) setup is broken	01:28
nuba	just aobut time for them to replace it with WebGUI!!! :)	01:28
@preaction	postnuke was popular enough to get forks? it was poorly-engineered crap!	01:41
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@rizen	howdy all	19:00
diakopter	howdy	23:04
@rizen	that might be the most delayed howdy in this history of the universe	23:05
* diakopter forks another history of the universe		23:05
@rizen	if our transaction rate does not increase, we'll be speaking as slow as Ents	23:06
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+perlDreamer	hoom	23:56
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cap10morgan	Has anyone ever written a module to allow WebGUI to be an OpenID server? I.e. use the WebGUI auth system to serve OpenIDs for that domain?	04:07
* Radix-wrk googles OpenID to find out what it is.		05:26
+Radix-wrk	Could be worth USD$5000 to the OS project who implements it according to iwantmyopenid.org	05:32
+Radix-wrk	http://iwantmyopenid.org/bounty	05:32
cap10morgan	Radix-wrk: yeah, I saw that. Did you read the requirements? 200,000 users and 5,000 downloads / month. Does WebGUI meet that?	05:33
+Radix-wrk	no idea	05:34
cap10morgan	they have lots of popular/crappy CMS's in there	05:38
cap10morgan	in the list of projects they want to give a bounty for	05:38
cap10morgan	the big three: Drupal, Joomla, and Plone	05:38
cap10morgan	actually Plone may not be that bad	05:38
cap10morgan	I hate Drupal and Joomla	05:38
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@preaction	cap10morgan: 200,000 end users? 5000 downloads / month? does it count the 400+ plainblack-hosted sites? the sourceforge project averages 150 downloads / day. this isn't to mention the official repo at http://update.webgui.org	09:10
+Radix-wrk	preaction: http://iwantmyopenid.org/bounty	09:16
@preaction	i didn't think they were still looking for things after two years	09:17
+Radix-wrk	2 years? huh?	09:18
@preaction	1 years maybe	09:19
@preaction	no, this is openID 2.0, they might've offered it for OpenID 1.0 too	09:19
@preaction	but if you're going to implement openID, why not just go with Yadis?	09:20
* Radix-wrk googles yadis		09:20
+Radix-wrk	because yadis aren't offering US$5k to implement it?	09:21
@preaction	but by implementing yadis+openID you get both	09:21
+Radix-wrk	sure, I guess	09:22
@preaction	yadis is like an interface layer on top of OpenID/LID	09:22
@preaction	wait, yadis just describes what interfaces a URL supports	09:23
+Radix-wrk	preaction: I just went to webgui.org again and I'm logged in as meatbop	09:23
@preaction	can you access anything?	09:24
+Radix-wrk	I just hit turn admin on and can now see admin console	09:24
+Radix-wrk	I went to statistics and can see the full stats for it	09:24
@preaction	okay, that's bad	09:25
@preaction	hang on	09:25
+Radix-wrk	JT asked me to let him know if it happened again	09:25
+Radix-wrk	this is the second time it's happened	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Assets:48303	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Packages:11	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Templates:364	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Active Sessions:186410	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Users:8240	09:25
+Radix-wrk	Groups:12855	09:25
+Radix-wrk	my ip should be 203.161.68.67 if you want to see what session I'm in	09:27
@preaction	i found it, but damned if i know how it happened	09:29
+Radix-wrk	it's happened twice now, both times I've just typed 'webgui.org' into firefox	09:30
+Radix-wrk	I'll email JT and just leave the session open for the moment - maybe he can debug it and figure out why	09:31
@preaction	here's your session id: GmxMBwYIZmgDKuyjUwACAg	09:31
+Radix-wrk	lol.. taking a screenshot for JT to see, and it's got me as the banner pic - people behind webgui - how poignant!	09:34
@preaction	lol	09:34
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SDuensin	Good morning.	15:57
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@preaction	good morning	16:14
wgGuest17	I nearly have our IT conviced that we need WebGUI to run our intranet. His last comment: "how much space does it take up - our servers are limited" We'll be using the WRE on a windows 2003 server	16:14
wgGuest17	i downloaded and unzipped it - but I assume installed size is much biggeR?	16:14
@preaction	WebGUI itself takes about 25M, the WRE takes a bit more (80-100M i think). your site may take lots	16:15
@preaction	but the overhead for the server is about 100-125M	16:15
@preaction	(if you're using the WRE, of course)	16:15
wgGuest17	So 250MB is a safe, over-conservative answer to give him?	16:16
@preaction	let me verify before i give you inaccurate data	16:17
@preaction	looks like WRE for windows is only about 75M, so 100M for the server. so 250 should be plenty conservative (Depending on how big you anticipate your site growing)	16:19
wgGuest17	Thanks a ton. Once I get it going, I have a few custom ideas so I'll definitely be in touch. Thanks, Greg gfulk@paragoncompanies.com	16:20
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@preaction	good way to start monday: another convert to the cause	16:20
SDuensin	:-)	16:22
@preaction	offset by bad way to start monday: after working nearly 96 hours straight I'm not done with my project due in 30 minutes :p	16:24
SDuensin	Well, quit screwing around here and get to work!	16:25
@preaction	I bestow upon you the time-waster of all time-wasters: http://www.handdrawngames.com/DesktopTD/	16:35
SDuensin	Noooo!	16:36
AMH_bob	:P I'll try that one at 5 pm	17:00
AMH_bob	Goof morning!	17:01
SDuensin	Goof indeed.	17:15
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+Radix-wrk	rizen: you around?	03:57
@rizen	nope	03:57
+Radix-wrk	I'm still logged in as meatbop if you're interested	03:57
@rizen	i never logged you out	03:57
@rizen	i emailed you some questions	03:57
+Radix-wrk	all I did was type in 'webgui.org' in firefox's address bar	03:58
@rizen	i think i know what caused this	03:58
+Radix-wrk	oh?	03:58
@rizen	see if you're still logged in as meatbop	04:00
+Radix-wrk	nup	04:00
+Radix-wrk	logged me out as soon as I clicked on a link	04:01
+Radix-wrk	what was it then?	04:01
@rizen	at one point we had our single sign on stuff going through snippets which were set to cache	04:02
@rizen	so you picked up steve's sessionId	04:02
@rizen	then steve never logged out, so his sessionId never went away	04:02
@rizen	and you got his cookie	04:02
+Radix-wrk	Ahh k	04:02
* Radix-wrk ate his cookie.		04:02
+Radix-wrk	Cool.. well glad I found it and not a random visitor.	04:03
@rizen	me too	04:03
+Radix-wrk	did you like the screenshot I sent btw.. I thought it rather poignant that the banner of me was there 'people behind webgui' indeed ;)	04:06
@rizen	honestly didn't notice that part	04:06
+Radix-wrk	hehe	04:07
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ckotil	will the calendar asset output an ics file	16:02
ckotil	?	16:02
ckotil	for me to download.	16:02
SDuensin	Good morning!	16:16
@preaction	ckotil: yes, ?func=ical	18:00
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perlmonkey2	Rizen you there?	22:29
@rizen	yup	22:29
@rizen	how's the survey coming?	22:30
perlmonkey2	I'm thinking of taking all of next week off to work on the survey.	22:30
@rizen	sweet	22:30
perlmonkey2	Has anything changed?	22:30
@rizen	nope	22:30
@rizen	oh, except i have a deadline for 7.4	22:30
@rizen	we'll be putting out the first beta on Monday July 23.	22:30
@rizen	All checkins will be due July 21.	22:31
perlmonkey2	I should be able to make that.	22:31
* SDuensin is waiting for 7.3.19. :-P		22:42
@rizen	never going to happen	22:42
@rizen	just kidding	22:42
@rizen	it will either be out this week or next	22:42
SDuensin	All my podcasts are 300 bytes long!	22:43
@rizen	is that a bug in webgui?	22:43
@rizen	and has it been fixed in 7.3.19?	22:43
SDuensin	Yep. And yep.	22:43
SDuensin	You upload to a folder asset and it reports everything correctly. Then you commit the tag and the size changes to 300 or so bytes.	22:44
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ckotil	preaction: cool. mines not working...im almost certain that its due to malformed ics file	00:03
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cap10morgan	Has anyone gotten the WRE to compile on an x86_64 machine?	01:36
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+Radix_	cap10morgan: no, but I managed to use the wre rhel4 binary on an x86-64 machine - just needed some extra libraries and a bit of tweaking	03:47
cap10morgan	Radix_: yeah, may have to give that a try...	03:52
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SDuensin	Good morning!	15:46
ckotil	Hi.	16:02
ckotil	Im driving up to indianapolis today to install windows server 2003 w/ terminal services..yay!	16:03
SDuensin	Oh yea. THAT sounds fun. :-P	16:03
ckotil	yeah. shouldnt be too bad.	16:04
ckotil	ive never done it, but im pretty certain its point n click	16:04
ckotil	heading out. have a good day	16:06
SDuensin	It's Windows. What could _possibly_ go wrong? :-)	16:06
SDuensin	Later bud!	16:06
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@preaction	rizen_: have you frozen for release of 7.3.19 yet?	21:37
rizen_	nope...it's going out next wednesday instead of today	21:37
@preaction	ok, thanks	21:37
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@preaction	how can I edit the URL of a branch? i deployed a package but now I want the sub-assets to take on the url of their parent? will edit branch do this? i've heard conflicting stories about how to accomplish this	23:15
@rizen	yes	23:16
@rizen	edit branch will do it	23:16
@rizen	however, right now edit branch is kind of dangerous if you need to do it on thousands of assets at once	23:16
@rizen	because it will start the process	23:16
@rizen	and then apache will time out	23:16
@preaction	just a dozen or so, so it should be fine	23:16
@rizen	we need to change edit branch to spew back it's results like the export function does	23:17
@rizen	Anybody out there worked with perl IO::Socket?	23:17
@rizen	i need help trying to figure out how to flush a buffer	23:17
@rizen	i want to do:	23:17
@rizen	print $socket "this";	23:17
@rizen	sleep 4;	23:17
@rizen	print $socket "that";	23:18
@rizen	the problem is that my content seems to be getting trapped in a buffer	23:18
@preaction	$io->autoflush(1); i believe	23:18
@rizen	it's not getting sent until the entire connection closes	23:18
@preaction	i think that's a part of the IO::Handle superclass	23:18
@rizen	the IO::Socket documentation says that autoflush is turned on by default	23:19
@rizen	but i'll give that a try	23:19
@rizen	i'm desperate	23:19
@rizen	nevermind....safari is a pile of shit	23:29
@rizen	doing: select $socket; $\|=1; works in all browsers except safari	23:30
@preaction	maybe safari itself is buffering	23:33
@rizen	that's what appears to be happening	23:34
@rizen	i thought that died with netscape 4	23:35
nuba	just found theres yet another wysiwyg editor http://xinha.python-hosting.com/wiki/Examples	23:36
nuba	i just noticed fastmail.fm allows you to choose between fckeditor, htmlarea and xinha	23:37
nuba	so if its in the same league, i figured you may like to know it exists, if you dont already	23:38
@rizen	unless it somehow surpasses TinyMCE, don't really care. we do too much tight integration with the rich editor to do it for multiple rich editors	23:39
@preaction	looks like it works a lot like the TinyMCE	23:39
nuba	yeah, well, its not like im suggesting to replace the current one with it, i've only mentioned it cause it made a bleep in the radar	23:42
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cap10morgan	what's the best way to login a user via the API, regardless of the auth method they use?	03:31
cap10morgan	WebGUI::Auth::authenticate?	03:31
rizen_	its actually even easier than that	03:42
rizen_	$session->user({userId=>$id});	03:43
rizen_	that's it	03:43
rizen_	or if you already have a user object you can do	03:43
rizen_	$session->user({user=>$obj});	03:43
cap10morgan	is there a way to actually authenticate them too? I'm trying to piggyback another login system on top of WebGUI	03:44
rizen_	that's what i'm saying....you authenticate them using whatever method you want	03:46
rizen_	and then once authenticated you use the thing i said above	03:46
rizen_	oh...wait	03:47
cap10morgan	i want them to enter their webgui username and password, then i want to ask webgui if that's right or not	03:47
rizen_	i see now	03:47
rizen_	sorry	03:47
rizen_	wasn't getting that	03:47
cap10morgan	no worries, i wasn't very clear	03:47
rizen_	yes use WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI::authenticate	03:48
cap10morgan	i need to go straight to the particular auth method?	03:49
cap10morgan	i think that's ok as i don't have any ldap users currently, but was wondering if i could future proof it a little	03:49
rizen_	yes...because the base auth method doesn't do passwords	03:49
cap10morgan	gotcha	03:49
cap10morgan	i guess i could try both in sequence if i really wanted to support both methods	03:49
@preaction	or string eval	03:49
rizen_	use the logic in WebGUI::Operation::Auth to autoload the proper module	03:50
@preaction	or maybe WebGUI::Auth::$authType::authenticate would actually work	03:50
rizen_	no, WebGUI::Auth is OO	03:50
rizen_	so you have to create an object first	03:51
rizen_	then do $obj->authenticate	03:51
rizen_	there's a subroutine in WebGUI::Operation::Auth called getInstance that will load the proper auth module for you	03:51
rizen_	automagically	03:51
cap10morgan	hey that's pretty slick	03:52
cap10morgan	i'll use that	03:52
rizen_	exit	03:52
rizen_	oops...wrong terminal	03:52
rizen_	=)	03:52
cap10morgan	hehe :)	03:52
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cap10morgan	is there a way to get a user object when you just have a username and password?	04:03
cap10morgan	I see methods for userId and email, but not the username	04:03
@rizen	no, but there should be	04:04
@rizen	it's lame that we don't have that right now	04:04
cap10morgan	so if i submit a patch, that could end up in 7.3.19? :)	04:12
@rizen	nope	04:13
@rizen	it's an api change	04:13
@rizen	so it would make it into 7.4.0	04:13
@rizen	but not 7.3.19	04:13
cap10morgan	oh, ok	04:13
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xdanger	rizen: I have a client how wants to add the mailing-list functionality to their CS, but they only have imap4s and pop3s access to their mailserver. Do you have any ideas on how I could make that possible?	11:57
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SDuensin	Good morning.	16:07
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AMH_bob	Good morning!	16:45
SDuensin	Hey AMH_bob	17:10
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@rizen	howdy	17:48
@preaction	by default assets inherit the security properties (groupIdView, groupIdEdit) of their parent, correct? without me having to explicitly do that in processPropertiesFromFormPost()?	18:03
@rizen	yes	18:03
@rizen	i should say that they do it on the www_add method...that way the user has a chance to override that behavior before hitting safe	18:04
@rizen	save	18:04
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wgGuest66	Hi All	03:24
@rizen	howdy	03:25
wgGuest66	I had a question that I hoped someone would have an answer to...Is WebGUI able to be an CMS with an ecommerce solution for small businesses online???	03:26
@rizen	yup...lots of webgui sites sell products, services, and subscriptions	03:27
@rizen	including plainblack.com	03:27
@rizen	the Content Manager's Guide shows you how to set up a store	03:27
wgGuest66	The reason I ask is that ValueCMS hosting gives suitability criteria, and this is what their site says:	03:29
wgGuest66	It won't paste...I dislike java sometimes	03:30
@preaction	paste the link perhaps?	03:30
@rizen	sure	03:30
@rizen	let me just go look at their site	03:30
wgGuest66	okay thanks	03:30
@rizen	http://www.valuecms.com/is_it_suitable_for_me	03:31
wgGuest66	yes that is it	03:31
wgGuest66	I still couldn't paste it	03:31
@rizen	I'm not using the java IRC client	03:31
@rizen	i'm connected directly	03:31
@rizen	anyway...the reason their site says that is because they host WebGUI 5	03:32
@rizen	but most of the world runs WebGUI 7	03:32
wgGuest66	okay thanks for the fast response	03:32
@rizen	they're a few years behind on upgrades	03:32
wgGuest66	So it is not accurate	03:32
@rizen	it is accurate for WebGUI 5	03:33
@rizen	but not for WebGUI 7	03:33
wgGuest66	I see	03:33
wgGuest66	Okay	03:33
wgGuest66	So as far as hosting goes they would not be a good choice	03:33
wgGuest66	Obviously	03:33
@rizen	Not if you want ecommerce	03:33
wgGuest66	Any suggestions outside of PlainBlack hosting	03:34
@rizen	since i work for plain black not really	03:35
@rizen	can't bite the hand that feeds	03:35
wgGuest66	That is okay Thanks...I just wanted something a little less expensive	03:35
wgGuest66	with support	03:35
@preaction	it seems that most of the top sites on google for "webgui hosting" are running ancient versions :(	03:36
@preaction	geekuprising, valuecms, cybersalad	03:36
wgGuest66	cybersalad did say they would install whatever version of WebGUI you wanted to install, so there is hope, but I still have to check out support	03:37
@rizen	sorry. i know we're not the cheapest hosting service around, but we are the best.	03:38
wgGuest66	Thanks Rizen for your help in understanding the dilemma I was having	03:38
@rizen	if you find a good hoster you could add it to this list: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/hosters	03:38
@preaction	cybersalad's shared hostings says it runs under suexec, this means that the mod_perl-only versions will not work unless you get a dedicated host from them	03:39
@rizen	we're the only one's listed in north america currentlyy	03:39
@preaction	i don't know when ecommerce was added, if it was before or after CGI was removed	03:39
@rizen	after	03:40
@preaction	that'd be a problem	03:40
wgGuest66	Rizen what kind of turn around from a support ticket does your company have?	03:40
@rizen	WebGUI 5.5 was the last version you could reliably run on cgi	03:40
@rizen	web support tickets posted during business hours are generally answered in 2 hours or less	03:41
wgGuest66	Good response time	03:41
@rizen	it gets better as you go up the scale...but price does too	03:41
@rizen	phone support is usually answered immediately, or at most in less than 1 hour	03:42
wgGuest66	I have a VDS hosting provider now, and they are running FreeBSD virtual servers, is there any documentation on setting up with this config	03:44
wgGuest66	I tried today and I have all the requirements, but I am more Linux literate than BSD, so it is half done	03:46
@rizen	there's no special documentation unless someone has put something in the wiki	03:46
@rizen	but i can tell you that on FreeBSD you have to install GraphicsMagick in place of ImageMagick	03:46
@rizen	and change a couple of files in WebGUI, cuz FreeBSD doesn't like ImageMagick for some reason	03:47
@rizen	it creates seg faults	03:47
@rizen	because of this starting with WebGUI 7.4 we'll be using GraphicsMagick on all platforms instead of ImageMagick	03:47
+Radix-wrk	I'd recommend the WRE myself - much better and easier way of setting up WebGUI - but you'll want to use one of the binary WRE distributions if you can - that means ubuntu/rhel3/4 or OSX as the hosting platform	03:48
wgGuest66	Thanks Rizen my wife is calling for supper...I will be doing more research soon...Cheers	03:49
+Radix-wrk	haha.. the company I work for used to be called Graphic Magic many years ago (when I first started here) :)	03:49
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@preaction	is graphicsmagick better than imagemagick? or just different?	03:49
@preaction	is that why 7.4 requires WRE 0.8?	03:50
+Radix-wrk	it's derived from imagemagick	03:50
@preaction	also, i think i finally found a 7.x hoster: http://limedaley.com	03:50
@preaction	no rate information for WebGUI, of course	03:50
@rizen	graphics magick is a more stable api...less changes	03:50
@rizen	it's a fork of image magick	03:51
@rizen	and that's one of the reasons that 7.4 requires WRE 0.8	03:51
+Radix-wrk	I've managed to set up webgui on a generic VPS account myself - tis how I'm hosting a few webgui setups for friends/family.	03:51
@rizen	technically you'll be able to use wre 0.7.2, but you'll need to add a bunch of new modules	03:51
+Radix-wrk	interestingly enough, it's all running in 256MB ram too	03:51
@rizen	nicely done radix	03:52
+Radix-wrk	centos4 box with dual athlon 64-bit processors	03:52
@preaction	does that mean we'll have an official FreeBSD WRE build? i can offer up a build platform if drip can't handle it	03:52
+Radix-wrk	cost me US$7.50 to try it out, so figured why not	03:52
@rizen	yes we will, and drip can handle it	03:53
@preaction	sweet	03:53
+Radix-wrk	what's drip?	03:53
@rizen	it's our vmware server farm	03:53
@rizen	that's used to do wre builds	03:53
+Radix-wrk	Ahh cool	03:53
+Radix-wrk	vmware rocks doesn't it :)	03:54
@rizen	indeed	03:54
+Radix-wrk	We have a dedicated testing machine with vmware on it here and about a dozen vmware instances on it - with every kind of OS/config/language you could name for testing our own software on - it's awesome	03:54
+Radix-wrk	sweet, you rated my RFE :)	03:57
* Radix-wrk bumps it up to the top of the list. ;)		03:57
+Radix-wrk	I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of competition for the latest macro competition.. mine seems to be the only one so far and it wasn't that impressive. Surely someone else out there can put a macro together	04:02
+Radix-wrk	I'd love to do one for google maps or something, but I don't know where to start with something like that	04:02
@preaction	gott, i was just talking with someone who was doing that	04:02
+Radix-wrk	yeah?	04:03
@preaction	oh, jamestolley was doing that	04:03
+Radix-wrk	awesome	04:03
@preaction	the new full-time dev here	04:03
+Radix-wrk	Hey.. for something like that you'd need to add stuff to the head block of the page to include the right js/stylesheets/etc. How can you do that from a macro?	04:04
@preaction	short answer: you can't	04:04
+Radix-wrk	:(	04:04
@preaction	but with JS it's not an issue, they're legal anywhere	04:04
+Radix-wrk	yeah, I know you can embed it, but it's not as nice	04:04
@preaction	style is read anywhere, but it won't pass validation	04:04
@preaction	at least, i haven't found a browser yet that will ignore style inside of body, but that's subject to change should browsers ever start requiring well-formed xhtml	04:05
+Radix-wrk	I was hoping there was some webgui api call you could make to add to the head section	04:05
@preaction	it	04:05
+Radix-wrk	since obviously assets can do that	04:06
@preaction	's not that, it's when macros are parsed	04:06
@preaction	and here i am talking on IRC for 45 minutes when i should be out doing laundry...	04:08
+Radix-wrk	go do your laundry :)	04:08
+Radix-wrk	thanks for the chat tho :)	04:09
@rizen	macros are the very last thing that's processed before the page is sent back to the browser	04:12
@rizen	and since the page is sent back in chunks	04:12
@rizen	the head block has usually already been sent by the time your macro would get processed	04:12
@rizen	unless you rmacro was in the head block	04:13
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. so you could use a combination of macros to do it then.. a head block macro, and several page based macros..	04:21
@rizen	i guess that would depend on what it is you want it to do	04:21
+Radix-wrk	google maps macros	04:23
+Radix-wrk	if jamestolley is working on it tho, I'll leave it, but I was considering tackling it earlier after the experience with doing the gravatar macro	04:24
+Radix-wrk	google maps api is pretty flexible tho, so trying to encapsulate that into a single macro or even a bunch of macros would be hard	04:24
+Radix-wrk	I might have a look at the flickr api perhaps, see how easy that is to do	04:25
@rizen	we're going to do a similar contest to this one that integrates an asset into an external service	04:26
@rizen	the google maps api would be good for that one	04:26
+Radix-wrk	Ahh, yes - you're right I guess, an asset would be a better container	04:26
@rizen	macros are good for retrieving stuff in this situation, but not being interactive	04:27
+Radix-wrk	all stuff i want to learn, which is why I've participated in these comp's - getting me actually attempting to make a macro, etc :)	04:28
@rizen	excellent..well we're glad you are participating	04:30
@rizen	i just wish we could get you some competition	04:31
+Radix-wrk	I know.. I wish there was more too - I could learn from them too :)	04:31
+Radix-wrk	besides, you're going to be sick of sending me shwag bag's soon! :)	04:32
@rizen	bah	04:32
@rizen	i'll keep sending them to you as long as you keep winning	04:32
@rizen	eventually you'll be able to wear nothing but webgui tshirts	04:32
@rizen	and decorate your house with gooey's	04:32
+Radix-wrk	I haven't received the first package yet.. hoping it will come soon.	04:33
+Radix-wrk	Which reminds me, I need to submit some 'Gooey On The Go' photos when I do my next photoshoot	04:33
+Radix-wrk	my other hobby is photography :)	04:33
@rizen	i can't believe you didn't get the first one yet	04:34
@rizen	that's rediculus	04:34
@rizen	i sent it to you 4 months ago or something like that	04:34
+Radix-wrk	Don't spose there was a tracking number or anything like that at all?	04:34
@rizen	no, i sent it ground cuz otherwise it was going to cost me $100 to airmail it	04:35
+Radix-wrk	Wiki comp ended march 1st, so prize prolly send mid-late march? - so it'd be two-three months since sent	04:36
+Radix-wrk	Oh no.. one month of voting too	04:36
+Radix-wrk	so sent mid-april - 2 months or so	04:36
@rizen	wiki comp was over at the end of jan	04:36
@rizen	and voting was over at the end of feb	04:37
+Radix-wrk	http://webgui.org/wcc/wiki-how-to	04:37
@rizen	holy crap you're right	04:37
@rizen	i thought for sure we did that at the beginning of the year	04:37
+Radix-wrk	prolly when the planning started :)	04:37
@rizen	anyway..if you have a paypal account, and would prefer i can just send the money to you that way	04:38
@rizen	and since it will save me shipping and schwag i can up it to $300 instead of $250	04:38
+Radix-wrk	I have a paypal account	04:38
@rizen	that way you'll get it instantly rather than having to wait months	04:38
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+Radix-wrk	jessek@formsys.com	04:39
@rizen	howdy wes	04:39
wjw61	evening..	04:39
@rizen	can you email it to me so i don't forget it?	04:39
+Radix-wrk	yup, will do it now	04:39
@rizen	i wont' be doing it now...but probably early next week	04:40
+Radix-wrk	np	04:40
wjw61	rizen you on skype?	04:40
@rizen	i can be	04:43
@rizen	do you need me to be?	04:43
wjw61	sorry, jamie just called and answered my question..	04:46
SDuensin	rizen ! Dude, I got a weird one over here. Full images have been replaced by thumbnails! WTF?	04:47
@rizen	it's the way i prefer it SD	04:48
SDuensin	Why did it eat my images?	04:48
SDuensin	The names are all correct in the asset manager. When you mouse over them, some link to the thumbnail versions!	04:49
+Radix-wrk	thumbnails are generally displayed in the asset manager for the assets by default	04:50
+Radix-wrk	if you click on the thumbnail it should show the full image tho	04:51
SDuensin	But why did some of the links change to the "thumb-" version?	04:51
SDuensin	With over 2000 images on my other site, I'm kinda concerned!	04:52
@rizen	SD you can't just come on here and say "why is my site fucked up"	04:52
@rizen	you haven't told us what's changed	04:52
@rizen	did you upgrade	04:52
@rizen	did you move stuff around	04:52
@rizen	did you put in some custom code	04:52
@rizen	did gremlins raid your server	04:52
@rizen	you should know better	04:53
@rizen	if you want help, help us help you	04:53
SDuensin	In order: No. No. No. Maybe. Apparently I don't. I'm trying!	04:54
SDuensin	:-P	04:54
SDuensin	I really don't know what to tell you. It was fine. Now it's not. I wasn't even working on it.	04:54
SDuensin	For grins, I tried a rebuildLineage. Didn't do squat. Apparently the lineage is fine.	04:56
@rizen	well stuff like that doesn't just happen	04:56
@rizen	someone did something	04:56
@rizen	consult the assetHistory table	04:56
@rizen	and see if it has any answers for you	04:56
SDuensin	Uh. Ok. Please wait. :-)	04:57
SDuensin	Something happened. Dunno what.	05:00
SDuensin	How would you even perform an edit like that?	05:00
SDuensin	The original title and name were "l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg". Now the "Current File" says "thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".	05:02
@rizen	where are you seeing that?	05:02
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SDuensin	Only way I can think to do it would be to download the thumbnail and re-upload it.	05:02
SDuensin	In the asset manager on the "Edit Image" page.	05:03
@rizen	yeah i got that	05:03
@rizen	i don't mean generally	05:03
@rizen	specifically	05:03
@rizen	what field displays it?	05:03
SDuensin	"Title" and "Menu Title" are "l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg" as expected. Current File is "thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg".	05:03
@rizen	click on the thumbnail and find out the actual url of the file	05:04
SDuensin	http://vgstest.jaegertech.net/uploads/rZ/UY/rZUYl2DvhCfFSyWUqDCE0w/thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg	05:04
@rizen	now do:	05:04
@rizen	cd /data/domains/vgstest.jaegertech.net/public/uploads/rZ/UY/rzUY..../	05:05
@rizen	and find out what's in that folder	05:05
SDuensin	.wgaccess	05:06
SDuensin	l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg	05:06
SDuensin	thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg	05:06
SDuensin	thumb-thumb-l_7f5adecf55599006cdd8e5fbf525e2fa.jpg	05:06
@rizen	interesting...now look at the revision history (through the asset manager) of this asset	05:07
@rizen	and see when it was last edited	05:07
@rizen	and by who	05:07
@rizen	and look at the old version and see if it's messed up	05:07
SDuensin	Two revisions, both by me. Newest one is wrong, old one is fine.	05:08
@rizen	and when was the new one created?	05:08
SDuensin	6/2/07 @ 9:43AM	05:08
SDuensin	If I click the "X", will that roll it back?	05:09
@rizen	so it's been screwed up for quite some time then	05:09
@rizen	yes	05:09
SDuensin	Guess so.	05:09
SDuensin	Very weird.	05:09
@rizen	gotta go. be back in a few hours	05:11
SDuensin	Thanks bud. I'm still your #1 fan. :-)	05:11
+Radix-wrk	get in line bud!	05:19
* Radix-wrk takes a peek at SD's website and recognises pjesi's theme with a few tweaks :)		05:20
+Radix-wrk	SD: notice you're trying to hide the account login portion - one little thing I've been playing with of late is concealing the whole login/adminbar stuff in hidden/visible divs - then using javascript to display it if a little button is pressed	05:23
+Radix-wrk	there's still a bug in my javascript somewhere - but you're welcome to take a look at it if you wanted and borrow the same idea for your site	05:24
+Radix-wrk	http://www.juga.biz - there's a tiny little corner piece in the top right part of the style - you need to click it twice the first time tho for it to work (that's the bug)	05:25
SDuensin	I found the problem!	05:26
SDuensin	If I edit the URL of an uploaded picture and commit it, it screws it up.	05:26
+Radix-wrk	Hmm.. interesting - sounds like a bug	05:27
* SDuensin agrees		05:27
SDuensin	That's two bugs I've found! I'll post it later - I gotta run.	05:27
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+perlDreamer	what's WGBP for returning sets of objects if one of the set isn't an object?	07:34
+perlDreamer	Does it throw a fatal, or log a warning, or what?	07:34
@rizen	sets of objects	07:52
@rizen	and one isn't an object	07:52
@rizen	can you give me an example?	07:52
+perlDreamer	Like getting a set of objects from WebGUI::Workflow::Instance, where one of the array members is undef	07:54
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/spectre-should-check-that-it-has-a-valid-workflow#lHx4BxEUxcacX7rS5VLxeg	07:54
@rizen	the method that generates the list should be checking for the validity of the objects that it's creating	07:55
@rizen	removing them from the list if they are invalid	07:55
@rizen	and throwing an error to the log	07:56
+perlDreamer	Will do, probably tomorrow	07:56
+perlDreamer	tomorrow --bug	07:57
@rizen	hey...you can't count that	07:57
@rizen	=)	07:57
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SDuensin	Good morning.	15:43
+Radix_	evenin'	15:56
* SDuensin just filed a bug report for his weird image issue.		16:03
+Radix_	Oh, susanb already posted it	16:04
+Radix_	she posted it last week	16:04
+Radix_	I ran into the same bug today myself	16:04
+Radix_	all I did was change the template used on an image and it screwed up	16:04
SDuensin	DOH!	16:07
SDuensin	Well, fix it so we all quit posting about it! :-P	16:07
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AMH_bob	Good morning from the beautiful town of Valkenswaard!	16:15
SDuensin	Greetings.	16:16
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diakopter	good morning from Wichita, KS.	17:39
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+perlDreamer	--bug	20:55
SDuensin	bug++	21:02
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, you have to submit __unique__ bugs to bug++ :)	21:03
SDuensin	++bug--	21:03
+perlDreamer	It would be cool if perlbot couldn't those automatically	21:03
+perlDreamer	s/couldn't/count/	21:03
@preaction	perlbot karma bug	21:14
perlbot	bug doesn't have any karma	21:14
@preaction	bug++	21:14
@preaction	perlbot karma bug	21:14
perlbot	Karma for bug: 1	21:14
@preaction	--bug	21:14
@preaction	perlbot karma bug	21:14
perlbot	Karma for bug: 1	21:14
@preaction	it would if you used postfix like normal people	21:15
SDuensin	hehehe	21:16
+perlDreamer	Using perl makes me lazy	21:17
+perlDreamer	prefix guarantees no mystery behavior	21:17
+perlDreamer	SDuensin, that's a nasty bug	21:28
+perlDreamer	The good news is that the original file isn't being altered	21:28
+perlDreamer	It's just the filename	21:28
+perlDreamer	It's taking the thumbnail filename instead of its original filename	21:28
SDuensin	Yea. Major pain. :-)	21:29
SDuensin	If I fix my URLs, I break my images!	21:29
+perlDreamer	Really weird.	22:23
+perlDreamer	Small images don't seem to trigger it	22:23
+perlDreamer	Just large ones	22:23
+perlDreamer	Maybe it's just intermittent.	22:23
SDuensin	Happened to me every time. Gotta commit though.	22:25
+perlDreamer	hm	22:31
+perlDreamer	I had one without commit happen	22:31
+perlDreamer	um, I had one happen without committing	22:31
SDuensin	Wow. Proactive of it. :-)	22:32
+perlDreamer	Well, I did go back and edit the URL before I committed it	22:32
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dhelsten	Hey guys, I'm not a programmer, but would like to keep more up to date with webgui happenings.	23:50
@rizen	great	23:53
@rizen	are you saying you'd like to contribute?	23:53
@rizen	or just hang out?	23:53
@rizen	or something else?	23:53
dhelsten	In the forums I've read about JT's plans for the overhaul of the SQLform into "Thingy". I've been tasked with moving some simple MSAccess data onto the web. I'd prefer to use Webgui on an existing site but I haven't seen enough documentation on SQLform to know if it will do the trick. Right now I'm toying with coghead and zoho creator to do the job. Any timeline on the "Thingy"?	23:54
@rizen	it is being worked on, but no..no timeline	23:56
@rizen	my guess is not until fall	23:56
dhelsten	Would it be worth it to try and create something in SQLform or just wait? ie will there be an upgrade path?	23:57
@rizen	there won't be an upgrade path	23:57
@rizen	they are very different beasts	23:57
--- Day changed Sat Jun 23 2007
dhelsten	My main goal is to be able to display a single record (ie contact info) and inside of the form for that record to display multiple related records based on critera (ie name of last 5 events they attended) This would require 3 tables "contact info" "attendance" "events". Is this something SQLform can do well? Is this something that Thingy will be able to do?	00:04
@rizen	sorry for the delay..had a phone call	00:23
@rizen	The thingy will be able to do it, and i'm pretty sure that SQL Form could as well	00:24
@rizen	in general though coghead and zoho creator will be better apps for you than SQL Form	00:26
@rizen	the only advantage SQL Form gives you is that it's in WebGUI	00:26
@rizen	Thingy wil be more like the other two	00:26
dhelsten	Thanks for the info. Now I just need to decide if it can wait. The data isn't terribly complex so perhaps I will build it in one and then migrate. Thanks for the info	00:56
dhelsten	In terms of my intentions, I'd really like to get more into webgui but some of the docs are thin (I learn by example and need more "lets build a page that looks like this and does that" type of documentation")	01:00
dhelsten	I have a webgui-run site at http://newcastlecapital.com	01:01
@rizen	have you got the Content Managers Guide?	01:02
dhelsten	I bought a WGDR subscription about a year ago.	01:02
dhelsten	I just purchased the CMG	01:02
dhelsten	I was rather disappointed.	01:02
@rizen	disappointed with CMG?	01:03
@rizen	or WDR?	01:03
@rizen	or both?	01:03
dhelsten	Both actually and the CMG just seemed like a simple reworking of the CMG	01:03
dhelsten	WDR that is	01:04
dhelsten	They are both coming from a reference perspective which doesn't work for me.	01:05
@rizen	You're the first person that has told me they were disappointed with the CMG	01:05
@rizen	what are you talking about....they literally show you how to do stuff	01:06
@rizen	step by step	01:06
@rizen	step 1 do this	01:06
@rizen	step 2 do that	01:06
@rizen	there are dozens and dozens of step by step lists in CMG	01:06
dhelsten	This is true, there are many step by step lists just as the videos in the WDR were had all of the steps.	01:08
dhelsten	My feeling is that the overall approach seems a bit backward.	01:09
@rizen	if it were reference oriented it would just tell you what the fields are	01:09
@rizen	ok...we want to improve it, so could you tell me how it could be better? what should we be doing differently?	01:09
dhelsten	To me it feels like it was written with the intent of explaining what every asset (or macro) in webgui does.	01:11
dhelsten	For example:	01:11
dhelsten	Collaboration System - Use this asset if you want to create something which you can use to collaborate with others.	01:13
dhelsten	The steps to creating this are "Step 1" Step 2 Step 3	01:13
dhelsten	This is why I said that it seems more like a reference book, because you start with the asset.	01:14
@rizen	but then it goes on and shows you how to use it for job postings, photo galleries, and more	01:15
dhelsten	That is correct.	01:15
dhelsten	But you still are starting with the asset first	01:15
dhelsten	To me that is reference.	01:15
dhelsten	Let me use photoshop as an example	01:16
@rizen	ok...so to you that means reference, but you're not saying what is bad about it	01:16
@rizen	you say you want to be shown how to do something	01:16
dhelsten	Exactly right.	01:16
@rizen	and it does show you how to create a photo gallery for example	01:16
@rizen	and if you look in the table of contents, photo gallery is one of the itemms	01:16
@rizen	so you can jump straight to that page	01:16
@rizen	and start reating	01:16
@rizen	reading	01:16
@rizen	so what am i missing?	01:17
dhelsten	I make up that you are pretty defensive about this and perhaps not willing to follow my thoughts well so I'm not sure how productive this exchange will be for either of us.	01:18
nuba	i agree with dhelsten about the way the exchange is going	01:20
nuba	i think it started around this point:	01:20
nuba	14:04 <@rizen> what are you talking about....they literally show you how to do stuff	01:20
nuba	dhelsten: you can still elaborate on your feedback and post it here, tho	01:22
@rizen	you're right, i am being defensive...but not for the reason that you think	01:22
@rizen	i'm being defensive because you keep saying that it's "a reference" and that's not good, but so far you have yet to say what we could do to make it better	01:22
@rizen	you keep talking and say nothing	01:22
@rizen	so i'm not defensive so much as i feel like this conversation is wasting my time	01:23
@rizen	i'll shut up now and let you talk...i'd just like you to give me a concrete example of what should have been there that you didn't find	01:23
dhelsten	My purpose is not to waste your time and if you have other things to do, then by all means do them. I'll go ahead and post my feedback and you can read it at your leisure.	01:25
nuba	dhelsten: the point is, please elaborate on your feedback	01:27
nuba	a good feedback is always appreciated	01:27
dhelsten	I was going to give a photoshop example because that is an area that I'm more familiar with. While I have built a webgui site, it was mostly by rebuiding the demo site. Now the example	01:27
nuba	good as is thought-of, and logically sound	01:28
nuba	s/is/in/	01:28
@rizen	nuba: thank you for moderating the discussion	01:28
nuba	my pleasure	01:28
dhelsten	First off, in the CMG I was hoping for tutorials.	01:29
dhelsten	In photoshop a tutorial would mean "lets change the background color of the sky"	01:29
dhelsten	Here is what we do: First select the magic wand tool.	01:30
dhelsten	Second, change the tolerance to 30	01:30
dhelsten	Third create a new layer by doing such and such	01:31
dhelsten	23 use the color picker to choose a dark blue color....	01:31
dhelsten	In a tutorial as I define it, there is a clear objective that will demostrate the use of multiple tools	01:32
@rizen	yup i get it...now tell me something you'd want to do in webgui that wasn't explained in the book?	01:33
dhelsten	If we liken tools in photoshop to the various prebuilt packages in webgui (Gallery, Wiki)	01:33
@rizen	just the objective	01:33
@rizen	you don't have to tell me how to do it..i just want the goal that was missing	01:33
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dhelsten	Then I would like a tutorial that as its objective would be to create a complete web page	01:34
dhelsten	From start to finish	01:35
dhelsten	It would go step by step from creating a simple style, a simple page template, a simple css snippet,	01:35
dhelsten	adding a simple custom CS asset, and a simple navigation element.	01:36
dhelsten	It wouldn't need to be pretty, but show how everthing ties together.	01:37
@rizen	you're talking about design	01:37
@rizen	that's a whole seperate book	01:37
@rizen	it's coming out at the end of july	01:37
@rizen	this is the content managers guide...not the designers guide	01:38
nuba	i think the key here i think is the 'tie together' part	01:38
@rizen	and it does show you how to create a page from beginning to end page 9-13	01:38
nuba	dhelsten: do you know oreilly's "in a nutshell" book series ?	01:39
@rizen	everything he's asking for is covered both as reference and tutorial in the designers guide	01:39
dhelsten	Yes I'm familiar with the series	01:40
nuba	it looks like you were expecting more like the "cookbook" series, then	01:41
nuba	now, have this in mind,	01:41
dhelsten	Nuba, I think you've got it. I learn by example that introduces me to sever elements and how they interact	01:41
nuba	unlike photoshop, webgui assets aren't so close knit together	01:41
nuba	and actually the ways they can relate are just a bunch	01:42
dhelsten	This is true but the interactions between Page Templates, Style Templates, snippets and the prebuilt assets are closely related	01:43
nuba	true	01:43
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@rizen	i think that the reason you are disappointed here is not because the content you're looking for is missing, but rather because you've got the wrong book	01:43
dhelsten	I guess I misread the intended audience of the CMG.	01:43
@rizen	CMG is about publishing, and once you're in the publishing process you're not doing css, navigation, etc	01:44
nuba	dhelsten: so you think these could have been better explained in the book ?	01:44
nuba	with a "in a nutshell" state of mind ?	01:44
@rizen	the designers guide is over 300 pages talking exclusively about HTML, CSS, templates, snippets, navigation, styles, page layouts, and how they relate together	01:45
@rizen	and more than half the book is "cookbook" style documentation	01:45
nuba	rizen: the designers guide description sounds cool to me	01:45
nuba	rizen: but i'd miss some explanation in a "nutshell" kind of book too	01:46
@rizen	well maybe at some point we'll have to make an "in a nutshell" book, but at this point i think we need to get the main documentation out there	01:46
@rizen	first was CM Guide	01:46
nuba	ie. at least someting illustrating how the asset relate to a template	01:46
@rizen	second is designers	01:46
@rizen	third is admin	01:46
@rizen	fourth is Commerce	01:46
@rizen	what you just said is included in the design book	01:47
nuba	heh	01:47
nuba	suppose I already know plenty of html, css, etc.	01:47
@rizen	i guess i should say it this way	01:47
@rizen	if it's about how something looks, then it's in the design book	01:47
nuba	and I only want to know how that fits into the webgui's way	01:48
@rizen	if it's about the content, regardless of how it looks, then it's in the cm book	01:48
nuba	ok. where would go a general map of webgui ?	01:48
@rizen	what do you mean "general map"	01:48
nuba	how things relate, where should I look while in the task of understanding the next hop in my quest to build a site with webgui from start to finish	01:49
nuba	where start would be a fresh install ready and working	01:49
nuba	not from the "compiling WRE" start	01:49
nuba	general map as in "big picture"	01:49
@rizen	the getting started guide in the wiki	01:49
@rizen	because if you're at that phase	01:49
@rizen	you likely haven't bought documentation yet	01:49
nuba	i think thats related to how dhelsten got frustrated	01:50
dhelsten	yes. nuba spot on.	01:50
nuba	he got each tool explained thoroughly	01:50
dhelsten	but didn't know where to start	01:50
@rizen	where you start is entirely based upon your perspective	01:51
@rizen	are you an admin, are you a designer, are you a cm?	01:51
@rizen	are you building a store?	01:51
@rizen	and in your c