--- Log opened Wed Aug 01 00:00:33 2007
00:20 < xootom> i remember that copying an asset doesn't also copy its children, is there any way of doing so? (is that the intended copy behaviour or a limitation of wg?) 
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12:18 < Radix-europe> Is there still a developers site for webgui somewhere?  Where is that located now?
12:18 < Radix-europe> I recall there being a site with api documentation and the like somewhere
12:21 < Radix-europe> Ahh.. API in the wiki has the link
13:01 < xootom> hi radix, i got the addusers script passing through using the pass thru, it now executes fine but nothing seems to happen when i try adding users, no error message (unless I omit username etc). Have you tried it with 7.4.0 yourself?
13:36 < Radix-europe> hmm.. not with 7.4 no
13:36 < Radix-europe> try calling it from the command line
13:36 < Radix-europe> see if it spits out any errors
13:37 < Radix-europe> it should work with the 7.4 api fine (well.. unless someone changed something in the api that broke it! ;)
13:39 < Radix-europe> i remember being told that the api is fixed for two years at last years WUC tho :)
14:43 < xootom> ahh thanks that's working now :) when running from command line could see a path error on the config
14:44 < xootom> is it possible to assign the user to a group>
15:07 < Radix-europe> it is, but not using that code I'm afraid
15:08 < Radix-europe> We do our groups using sql lookups to determine membership, so I never needed it when I wrote that code
15:08 < Radix-europe> you could probably adapt the code from the userimport script tho
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15:57 < xootom> ok thanks
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16:06 < SDuensin> Good morning.
16:06 <+MrHairgrease> hi
16:19 <@rizen> thank you radix
16:25 < Radix-europe> ?
16:25 <@rizen> for adding keywords to a bunch of wiki stuff
16:25 < Radix-europe> Ahh.. I saw the keywords there and thought.. cool.. might add a few :)
16:26 < Radix-europe> found a duplicate developers guide too so wiped one of them and kept the newer one
16:26 <@rizen> hopefully everybody else does the same...i think it will make it easier for people to find stuff
16:26 <@rizen> cool
16:26 < Radix-europe> yup, definitely
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16:26 < Radix-europe> when I say wiped I mean blanked it out.. I can't actually delete it
16:27 <@rizen> oh, do you know the url so i can do it?
16:27 <@rizen> nevermind
16:27 <@rizen> found it
16:27 < Radix-europe> yeah, on top of the wiki list
16:27 < Radix-europe> the tags are pretty cool :)
16:28 < Radix-europe> only thing I realised while doing it is that we want to almost standardise on the keywords used in some ways
16:28 <@rizen> that's the problem with all tagging systems
16:29 < Radix-europe> true
16:29 <@rizen> there is a method in the api to merge two tags into one
16:29 <@rizen> buut i couldn't figure out a clean way of exposing that to the UI
16:29 < Radix-europe> I was using the wiki a bit today looking up how to do things anyway, so just added the keywords while doing so :)
16:29 <@rizen> so for now, it will just have to be a command line script or something
16:30 <@rizen> i'm glad to know someone uses it
16:30 <@rizen> i was afraid nobody was
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16:30 < Radix-europe> I like your webgui lite idea btw
16:30 < Radix-europe> but couldn't find anywhere to post comments on it :)
16:31 < Radix-europe> I was thinking about how packages and themes are done at the moment will need to be simplified - and would be nice if it was
16:32 < Radix-europe> atm there's quite a few steps to import a theme like zenlike, etc.. would be nice to make it automatic somehow.. ie. select theme and voila.. applied to every page, navigation working, etc
16:32 <@rizen> there i've enabled comments
16:32 <@rizen> sorry, just didn't realize i hadn't before
16:32 < Radix-europe> np
16:33 <@rizen> that sort of concept only works on small sites
16:33 <@rizen> on large sites you could really **** someone by automatically and indescriminently applying a theme to every page
16:33 < Radix-europe> yeah, but that's what you're aiming at with webgui lite, no? :)
16:33 < Radix-europe> I know :)
16:33 <@rizen> yeah, but that doesn't mean that all of webgui should function to serve the small guy
16:34 <@rizen> it has to be a balance, and that balance is usually going to be applied using switches
16:34 <@rizen> outside of the reach of the small guy
16:34 <@rizen> make decisions for them
16:34 < Radix-europe> Sure.. perhaps a theme wizard that looks for themes in /styles or something like that and then will apply them if they select it
16:34 <@rizen> my thought on that was actually to make it a step in the site starter
16:35 <@rizen> upload a theme and it will be automatically applied
16:35 < Radix-europe> sounds good
16:36 <@rizen> anyway...i'm glad to hear someone is actually reading the blog too, i thought it might only be a couple of people, but lately i've heard from many people who are reading it
16:36 < Radix-europe> I read it all :)
16:36  * MrHairgrease has nothing better to do either =)
16:37 < Radix-europe> hehe
16:38 <@rizen> well now that comments are enabled, i hope to see you guys not only reading, but throwing out feedback
16:40 < Radix-europe> Well if I come up with any other ideas I will :)
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17:07 < AMH_henry> I was looking through the 7.4.0 source code when I saw that WebGUI::AssetClipboard::www_copy is modified to allow duplication of an asset including its children. What I cannot find is where in the UI this feature is enabled. Any ideas?
17:10 <@rizen> it's when you click on the copy button
17:10 < AMH_henry> yes, but it's looking for with as form parameter. I don't see that one posted anywhere
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17:19 <@rizen> ?func=copy;with=children
17:22 < Radix-europe> Speaking of 7.4 - just checked out the new site starter - seems pretty good, though it seems to create the default pages regardless - is this intentional or going to be fixed later?
17:22 <@rizen> it has to create the default pages...they have lots of good information on them like how to log in
17:22 <@rizen> and the introductory movie
17:23 <@rizen> and where to go to get more information
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17:23 < Radix-europe> Hmm.. I don't necessarily agree
17:24 < Radix-europe> Would be nice to have an option for that
17:24 <@rizen> this is the part where i get to tell you that i have scorn for 7 generations of your family and it doesn't matter what you think
17:24 < Radix-europe> For a new user - offer them a tutorial or something perhaps, but an user who's already used webgui before the first thing they will have to do is go and delete the pages etc
17:25 <@rizen> yeah, but those experienced users will at least know how to do that
17:25 <@rizen> stop whining you whiny whiner
17:25 < Radix-europe> Sure, but surely there should be an option to turn it off or not have it if you don't want it ;)
17:25 <@rizen> this is the part where i get to tell you that i'm not an rfe list
17:26 < elnino> time for a topic change?  =)
17:26 < Radix-europe> hehe.. sounds like it ;)
17:26 <@rizen> no, i'm just having fun with radix
17:26 < elnino> ok. you maay continue. =)
17:26 <@rizen> or maybe at the expense of radix
17:26 < Radix-europe> I'm just giving my 2c :)
17:27 <@rizen> and i'm just throwing hate back in your face
17:27 <@rizen> so i think we're even
17:27 <@rizen> =)
17:27 < Radix-europe> uhuh
17:27 <@rizen> ok, let me actually defend my position in a civilized manner rather than just throwing out fud
17:27 < AMH_henry> @rizen: thanx. link works great
17:28 <+crythias> hey. I think we should make webgui be php
17:28 <+crythias> no, no. I mean asp
17:28 <@rizen> 1) experienced users know how to delete pages
17:28 <@rizen> 2) it only takes a few seconds to do so
17:28 <+crythias> webgui as application
17:28 <@rizen> 3) if you expose an option to delete the default pages noobs are going to click on it because they're noobs
17:28 <@rizen> and can't help themselves
17:29 <+crythias> :ACK: blank page!
17:29 <+crythias> It's like I'm in WP5.1 DOS all over again
17:29 < Radix-europe> okay - argument against
17:29 <+crythias> or vim for that matte
17:29 <@rizen> 4) currently the site starter doesn't need to know anything about what pages are in the database and therefore can function even for companies who create their own create.sql to start, which lots of hosting companies do
17:29 <+crythias> matter
17:30 < Radix-europe> 1) it's annoying having to delete them every time
17:30 < Radix-europe> 2) they take up hard disk space and reserve urls
17:30 < Radix-europe> 3) they're redundant once you've read them once - and could easily simply be on the webgui site
17:30 < Radix-europe> since that's where you'd presumably downloaded webgui from anyway
17:32 < Radix-europe> an option to either not add them, or even a command line option to addsite or something would cater for everyone - new and old user alike
17:32 < elnino> are we discussing on whether to have default pages deletable in a new installation?
17:32 < Radix-europe> yes
17:33 < elnino> how about making it an option during installtion?
17:33 < elnino> ie: install default pages, or not
17:33 < Radix-europe> woohoo.. exactly what I've been asking for
17:34 < Radix-europe> Anyway.. I see I won't get anywhere this way, so I'll try making an RFE for it
17:34 <@rizen> the rfe isn't going to help you if you can't defend your argument
17:34 <@rizen> your bullet points are good so far
17:34 <@rizen> but they don't adequately address 3 and 4
17:34 <@rizen> of mine
17:35 < elnino> are # 3 and 4 referring to the person installing? or the person that is doing the content manageent?
17:36 <@rizen> 3 is referring to the new person coming to the webgui demo site, or a brand new webgui hosting site for the first time
17:37 < Radix-europe> #3 can be addressed by simply explaining what the option does - and suggesting that users who are new to webgui click here (ie. recommended or something like that)
17:38 < elnino> to me, the person installing isn't necessarily the person doing the content management. so to have the option to not install the pages during *installation* does seem to address #3a dn 4
17:38 <@rizen> 4 is referring to the many hosting companies out there that create their own create.sql files that are loaded rather than the default webgui create.sql file and therefore has information in it that we wouldn't know how to delete...or worse yet, they've just edited the default pages and so they have their default content which they don't want deleted using our asset ids
17:38 < Radix-europe> #4 - Well it depends how this is implemented - if the default pages are put in a separate sql file and run only when selected then this would solve this
17:38 < elnino> the content managemnt person can delete the pages manually if they want and when they want.
17:38 <@rizen> radix: wrong on number 3 again, because PEOPLE DON'T READ
17:38 <@rizen> they just click
17:39 < elnino> but only the installer can decide whether to isntall them or not, and it would be to their benift to install them i f the content managers are noobs
17:39 < Radix-europe> Sure they do - if you have a big fat (recommended) next to it and it's the default option they'll click it every time
17:39 <@rizen> the default pages are not and will not be in a seperate SQL file
17:39 <@rizen> it's just not possible to do that
17:40 < Radix-europe> why not?
17:40 <@rizen> have you seen the database schema?
17:41 < xootom> is the default site configurable by the super administrator.., so if i'm offering a hosted webgui service, i could have a skeleton that i'd like created for all new sites with info on how to get support from myself, and that would be the new user's default each time, and give them a basic set of pages like contact, forums, gallery...
17:42 < Radix-europe> xootom; at the moment the default site is hardcoded in the sql file - I'm arguing to change that a bit and make it easier for hosters to do exactly that
17:42 <@rizen> look guys, i've got to get back to work. i don't have time to explain how all the internals of webgui work so that you can understand my argument. submit your RFE, and if it makes it to the top then we'll figure out a way to make it work
17:43 < elnino> topic change? =)
17:43 < xootom> could it use asset copy with children to copy a sub-tree out of the import node
17:43 < elnino> or a package
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17:43 < xootom> makes sense to me
17:44 < AMH_henry> how about separate the default pages from create.sql and put them in a separate perl script instead?
17:44 < elnino> suggested already... =)
17:45 < elnino> I have a qeustion about rssfeeds
17:45 < AMH_henry> rizen said that it cannot go to an new sql file, but a perl script is much easier to maintain
17:46 < elnino> what does the "enable rssfeeds" do other than create a child "rss from parent' asset? i would have expectd it to provide an asset that allows a person to get the url of the feed.
17:46 < elnino> or does is simply enable the ability, and I have to create the asset that gives the url to the user?
17:47 < elnino> my guess is that the amount of sql statements it takes to create the default site is too huge for a perl script.
17:48 < AMH_henry> we use scripts here to create pages directly as assets, no sql required
17:49 < elnino> I don't know then.
17:49 < xootom> can anyone help with a problem i've got, i must have overlooked something simple. can I pull an sql report, reporting on members of my class (which is a group) - so something like select * from results where group=myclass, so i can only see results for people in my class. Is there a macro to find the name of my group?
17:50 < elnino> I think you can do that in the administrative side. View users in this group sort of thing.
17:50 <@Haarg> there's a template variable rss.url to get the url for the rss feed
17:51 < elnino> Haarg: is that only availabl ewhen I 'enable rss'?
17:51 < xootom> yeah but i need the results of the sql report that only contain people in the group
17:52 <@Haarg> yes.  and it points to the 'RSS from Parent' asset.
17:52 < elnino> right, it's in the administrave screen, or is your requirement to have it in a sql report?
17:52 < elnino> thanks haarg.
17:52 < Radix-europe> http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/option-to-not-get-the-default-pages-when-you-create-a-new-webgui-site
17:53 < xootom> yes the sql report needs to show different data depending on the group i'm in, so i see data related to my group
17:54 < elnino> xootom: if you enbable debugging: would it display the sql statements being run from the administriave screen so you can copy it to create your sql report?
17:55 < xootom> maybe but that would be the static statement wouldnt it? i need a placeholder in my sql report that reflects the current user's group at the time (if that makes sense)
17:56 < elnino> oh. I'm pretty sure there is a macro that gives you your group. Use that macro in the sql statement that you grab from the debugging.
17:57 < elnino> I have another question: I'm setting a scratch variable in a macro that is called  from a sql-based group: $session->scratch->set("loginat","here");
17:57 < elnino> And then I'm reading it from a displayLogin in my Auth.pm module: $self->session->scratch->get("loginat");
17:57 < elnino> but it doesn't seeem to be able to get it. I read somewhere that scratch variables are renamed, is this the case in which it renames scratch variables?
17:57 < elnino> are scratch variables cookies or session variables?
17:58 <@Haarg> they are linked to your session
17:59 < elnino> is there a way to dump your session variables? because i can set them and read them just fine within the auth module, but not when it's set in a macro and then retrieved from the auth mod.
18:00 <@Haarg> there isn't a macro to get your group. i'm not sure how that would work even, given that users can be in multiple groups.
18:00 <@Haarg> you could look in the database, in the userSessionScratch table
18:01 < elnino> thanks haarg.
18:01 < elnino> xootom, haarg: oh.. I think I've been able to dump groups some how. I'll have to log off to get it.  (site is behind I firewall, and I have to vpn to get there) I'll be back, if you can wait?
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18:02 < xootom> yeah :) thanks
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18:09 < elnino_> xootom. I don't have a macro, but if you create a macro that calls $u->getGroups (from the Users.pm) then I think you'll get what you want.
18:10 < xootom> ok that helps, i'll have a go. many thanks
18:11 < elnino_> I have another question: I create my own auth mod, and would like to redirect users to a offsite login form. Is there an appropriate place in the WebGUI.pm auth (my auth mod is a copy of it) mod, that will allow me to redirect the user before anything is written to the headers?
18:11 < elnino_> I tried doing this in the displayLogin proceedure, but stuff was already written to the headers.
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18:13 < elnino_> hopefully that makes sense?
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18:16 < Radix-europe> Hey doug
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18:20 < elnino_> Hi. I'll reword my question: I've copied the webgui.pm auth module as my own, and would like to instead redirect a user to the login screen (a static page). Is there an appropriate place to do this? I tried within the displayLogin proceedure, but html has been written already, so I couldn't redirect the user. Or is it too late by the time that auth mod is instanciated?
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18:30 < elnino_> hopefully someone can tell?
18:31 < elnino_> *help*
18:32 < pjesi> sorry don't know yet, but I am starting to do similar stuff
18:33 < elnino_> glad to know that it's not a crazy idea.
18:35 < elnino_> I've mananged to rewrite the form so that it submits to the static page, but that's not working to well, and someting tells me that's not really a good idea. The static login page is on a different subdomain. What have you all tried pjesi?
18:36 < pjesi> elnino_: you are way ahead of me, I am just starting to figure out how to implement the custom auth module
18:48 < elnino_> if anyone is looking into my question, plesae let me know and I'll wait, otherwise, I need to log off to vpn into work. - I can't work while logged into this.
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18:59 -!- rizenisaway is now known as rizen
18:59 <@rizen> quick opinion poll
18:59 <@rizen> If you ran the following command: ./wreservice.pl --start mysql
18:59 <@rizen> and it fails
19:00 <@rizen> do you want it to say
19:00 <@rizen> a) nothing
19:00 <@rizen> b) Couldn't start MySQL
19:00 <@rizen> c) A full error message that tells you everything it can about why it couldn't start mysql
19:00 <@rizen> ?
19:00 < xootom> c
19:07 < xootom> can anyone tell me if there is any documentation to the graphing API? Is it accessible through an SQL report, so I can show say a plot instead of a table?
19:09 <@rizen> it is not currently available to the SQL report, although that is something that perlDreamer is working on for 7.5
19:09 <@rizen> there are api docs for it at http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds
19:09 <@rizen> then choose your version
19:10 < xootom> looked through there but couldn't see anything about graphs
19:15 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image.html
19:15 < xootom> ah ha it's under image
19:16 <@rizen> http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.3.22-stable/api/Image/Graph.html
19:16 <@preaction> i'd pick "c" as well, I'd want to know everything
19:17 < xootom> yes, only the admin is going to see it (and panic, trying to find the cause)
19:17 <@preaction> does that mean that the wreservice.pl script is actually going to tail the mysql error log for me?
19:17 <@preaction> because that would be killer
19:18 <@rizen> no, but i suppose it could
19:19 < xootom> not sure how clean that would look, perhaps it could suggest the user tails it, and gives the full command with path, to prompt the admin
19:19 <@rizen> could have a --tail option
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19:22 <@preaction> so wreservice.pl will be the frontend through which individual OSes rc scripts are written?
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19:24 < xootom> rc.webgui already does that doesn't it, e.g. rc.webgui startmysql
19:25 <@preaction> right, i'm thinking wreservice.pl is the new rc.webgui
19:43 < nuba> rizen: b) Couldn't start MySQL. With maybe a pointer to "check /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/var/$hostname.err for more information"
19:45 < nuba> dunno, but i'd rather have the error go to mysql's own error log
19:45 <@preaction> it will be there, mysql does that itself
19:46 <@preaction> i'd just like to avoid going to dig it out myself, so the option to --tail or --verbose would be nice
19:46 < nuba> a --verbose would be fine too
19:53 < xootom> or oppositely a --quiet
19:54 < nuba> heh
19:57 <@preaction> imho quiet should be default. if the program wants to notify the user that there IS more to see with --verbose, it can go ahead
19:57 <@preaction> progressive enhancement, instead of graceful degradation
19:59 < nuba> i think the default should be 'loaded service foo ok' or 'couldn't load service foo'. a --quiet would output nothing except maybe errors to sdterr, and a --verbose would spill the detailed errors too
20:01 < xootom> i suppose it depends if the target user is an admin interactively running the command, then in the use case of it failing, they need to fix it asap with all the info they can get. If it's feeding an error status back to something else, then i can see why detailed errors might not be appropriate
20:01 < nuba> i dont think its fit for a --quiet to produce output like 'loaded foo ok'. when you have a --quiet switch it usually means 'output nothing unless strictly necessary'
20:02 < xootom> i'm not sure why by default you'd want to hide information that might help the admin diagnose why the command failed
20:02 <@preaction> i'm thinking this is THE script to start/stop the wre services, from cron, from remote, from web, from console, from startup, etc...
20:03 <@preaction> by default it should do what most startup scripts do, "Starting Blah... OK" or "Starting Blah... FAILED" (something along those lines)
20:03 < xootom> i'm not sure what the convention is for such scripts within webgui to feed back to the interface, return codes etc.
20:03 < xootom> yeah 
20:03 < nuba> preaction: yup, thats what im understanding too
20:04 < danny_mk> Good afternoon!  preaction:  Did you get the code for the chat Wobject cleaned up?
20:04 < nuba> in such cases when you dont have a --quiet switch you sometimes have to redirect stderr/stdout to /dev/null
20:05 <@preaction> danny_mk, lord no, i'm sitting in a starbucks lounge just so i can put in my 8 hours of work today. i can give you what i have now along with some instructions on what needs to be deleted or cleaned up
20:07 < danny_mk> cool.  Can you mail it to danny_mk@yahoo.com?
20:07 <@preaction> k, give me 30 minutes about.
20:08 < danny_mk> sure, take your time, I have plenty of work to do :-)
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21:25 -!- sno [n=sno@adsl-76-226-124-228.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #WebGUI
21:25 < sno> Good day
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21:54 < nuba> wonder if he thinks he was snobbed away then left
21:55 < nuba> we should have a bot here for handling such cases
21:55 < nuba> eliza-powered
21:56 < nuba> :)
21:59 <@rizen> i thought that's why we set up the nuba bot
21:59 <@rizen> hello nuba, my name is rizen
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22:10 < xootom> rizen, you were helping me yesterday with my problem of how to represent teachers and students in a particular school in webgui, and the way forward was to have each school as a group. now my problem is, how can a report show details about students in one school to the teacher of that school, without having to write custom reports for every school? if the school was a profile field (my original thought) then i'd have been able 
22:12 <@rizen> how is being in a group different from being in a profile field in that sense?
22:12 <@rizen> both are database tables
22:12 < xootom> just that i can write an sql report using the profile fields in where clauses
22:12 <@rizen> you can do the same with groups
22:12 <@rizen> the two tables in question are groups and groupings
22:13 <@rizen> in webgui, unless it's a file, it's stored in the database
22:13 <@rizen> so everything is a table you can report on
22:13 < xootom> true, i'm wondering if there will be a problem if they're in multiple group
22:13 < xootom> s
22:14 <@rizen> why would there be a problem...you're looking for a specific school name and a specific user
22:14 <@rizen> the same as you would be in the profile
22:14 < xootom> yeah of course
22:14 <@rizen> in fact, it will be easier to deal with multiples using groups than with profiles
22:14 <@rizen> cuz groups are designed for multiples
22:14 <@rizen> profiles aren't
22:15 < xootom> that's true. yes i think i'm getting my head too muddled :)
22:15 < SDuensin> Hey rizen - another FYI...  Just posted all-new installation instructions for my desktop app.  MUCH easier to do now.  
22:16 <@rizen> keep in mind that you may be better off writing an asset for this reporting simply because the perl API changes way less frequently than the database schema
22:17 <@rizen> sweet SD. i have to be honest with you though, the main reason i haven't checked it out yet is that my busiest time of the year is april through september...after the WUC i'll have lots more free time
22:17 < SDuensin> That's cool.  I completely understand.  That's why there's no YUI desktop yet.  :-P
22:18 <@rizen> xootom, not that the database schema for users and groups changes that often
22:18 <@rizen> rarely, if ever in fact...but that's not true of most other tables
22:19 <@rizen> just wanted to let you know in advance
22:19 < xootom> yeah i think you might be right
22:20 < xootom> at the moment i'm just trying to get things in place as quickly and simply as possible, my perl skills aren't up to much yet :(
22:20 <@rizen> you should come to the development workshop at the WUC
22:20 <@rizen> two days of intensive perl and webgui api to get you up to speed
22:21 < xootom> would love to but i'm in the uk
22:21 <@rizen> or...you could always contact dev@plainblack.com and have us build it for you
22:21 <@rizen> Radix is in Australia, but he came last year
22:21 <@rizen> we have people from all over the world every year
22:21 < xootom> when is it?
22:22 <@rizen> 3rd week in october: http://www.plainblack.com/wuc 
22:24 < xootom> mmm looks good
22:29 < nuba> rizen: huh
22:29 <@rizen> i was saying you are a bot
22:29 <@rizen> joke didn't work
22:29 <@rizen> nevermind
22:29 < nuba> i was out having some snacks
22:30 < nuba> you know, organic fuels for organic bots aka humans
22:31 < nuba> now, some eliza bot can even be helpful when extracting info from people looking for webgui support
22:31 < nuba> "why do you say that?"
22:31 < nuba> "did you check the forum?" "what do you see at the logs?" etc.
22:34 < nuba> "interesting. can you please be more specific?" thats one inspired on the thx1138 film :)
22:34 <@rizen> it's a public irc channel...write a bot and connect it
22:34 <@rizen> sounds like a good idea
22:38 < nuba> any bot name idea ?
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22:44  * SDuensin has a bot.  It plays Infocom games.  :-)
22:47 <@rizen> how about eliza
22:47 <@rizen> or is that too obvious?
22:48 < nuba> too obvious i think..
22:49 < nuba> using prj2501.. that clued AI bot from ghost in the shell
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22:49 < nuba> prj2501: test
22:50 < nuba> ok its working in private /msgs
22:50 < nuba> let me get it to work here..
23:08 < nuba> prj2501: test
23:09 < prj2501> nuba: I'm not sure I understand you fully.
23:09 < nuba> prj2501: why not? im just saying my webgui isnt working!
23:09 < prj2501> nuba: Is it important to you that your webgui isnt working?
23:09 < nuba> prj2501: of course it is! i have a deadline to meet. can you help me?
23:09 < prj2501> nuba: Do you say you have a deadline to meet for some special reason?
23:10 < nuba> yes, you know, bringing milk to the kids, etc.
23:10 < nuba> oops, it won't work without the nick ..
23:10 < nuba> that would be complicated to handle
23:11 < nuba> will leave it that way
23:12 <@preaction> oh god now we have an elizabot...
23:12 <@preaction> prj2501: You are hereby commanded to help teh n00bz
23:12 < prj2501> preaction: Perhaps you would like to be hereby commanded to help teh n00bz.
23:13 < nuba> hehe
23:14 <@rizen> prj2501 licks balls
23:15 < nuba> prj2501 test
23:16 < nuba> changing the regexp again..
23:27 < xootom> ooo i've just built php against the wre's mysql, every few requests it's not connecting to mysql, webgui sites returning Fatal Internal Error :S
23:27 < SDuensin> :-(
23:31 < nuba> prj2501 licks JT's balls
23:31 < prj2501> nuba: Does talking about this bother you?
23:31 < nuba> there you go
23:33 < nuba> i love irssi
23:33 < nuba> and its embedded perl feature
23:34 < prj2501> me too. i couldnt live without it!
23:35 < prj2501> now go back to work, silly human!
23:35 < nuba> k
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23:43 < xootom> hmm for some reason my wre's mysql is restarting every 30 seconds or so
23:47 < xootom> ahh think it's cos i deleted the test database by accident, so spectre's rebooting it every 30s...blush...
23:47 <@preaction> eh, it happens to the best of us
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 02 2007
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00:24 < elnino> hello? real quick question.  What object (perl module) and method do I use to check to see what url parameters have been pased to a page?
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00:32 <@preaction> elnino, the webgui way? WebGUI::Session::Form
00:32 <@preaction> otherwise you can use CGI.pm
00:34 < elnino> webgui way.  =)  I'm lookin specifically when the ?op=auth;method=init is set.. 
00:34 < elnino> which is kinda weird. What does the semi colon do? isn't that supposed to be an &amp;?
00:34 <@preaction> yes, WebGUI::Session::Form. the $session has a ->form to get the WebGUI::Session::Form object
00:35 <@preaction> no, semicolon is the preferred method these days
00:35 < elnino> oh. that's new. So those are two different parameters. That's what I wanted to know.  Thanks!
00:35 <@preaction> mainly because & is also the start of an HTML entity (as you pointed out, &amp; or &quot; or &lt;)
00:36 < elnino> that would make sense.
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00:36 < elnino> another question that is a little more depth, but it took me for ever to figure out why my form wasn't working.
00:37 <@preaction> elnino, just a word of warning: be careful making a new Auth. some of the subroutines in WebGUI::Auth do not have the same prototype as their children in WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI
00:37 < elnino> any idea why webgu's form defaults to enctype="multipart/form-data" when it should be "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" by default?
00:37 <@preaction> because multipart/formdata allows for file uploads
00:38 <@preaction> application/x-www-form-urlencoded is just one part of a multipart/form-data POST
00:38 < elnino> yea. but I was using that method, not knowing you defaulted it to that, and my form wouldn't work untill I changed it to "application/x-www-form-urlencoded"  that bit me hard for several hours.
00:39 < elnino> opps. did that come accross? it doesn't look right on my chat software.
00:40 <@preaction> that's weird
00:40 < elnino> back to your warning... I copied /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm. to create my own auth mod. Should I have copied the parent Auth.pm?
00:41 <@preaction> no, you did right, i'm just saying be careful because it's a lot of messed up in there :(
00:41 < elnino> lot of ??  people?
00:41 <@preaction> no, it's just messy. some bad things that can't be fixed because it will break API
00:42 <@preaction> pardon my broken english
00:43 < elnino> OK.  Thanks for your help, preaction, I'm signing off to read url parameters!
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01:01 < elnino> hi preactioin... What object did yousay I needed to use for looking at url parameters?  I can't seem to find it...
01:01 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session::Form
01:01 <@preaction> it's part of the session object, $session->form->get("parameter name")
01:02 < elnino> oh.. I'll look again. Thanks! bye.
01:02 < elnino> Super.. Thanks!
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01:16 <+crythias> Radix_ you there?
01:16 <+MrHairgrease> he probably is not
01:17 <+MrHairgrease> he's in the Netherolands right now
01:17 <+MrHairgrease> and uses the nick radix_europe
01:17 <+MrHairgrease> but maybe he's using Radix_ too
01:17 <+crythias> heh. OK. I was thinking about the default install of new sites. 
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:18 <+crythias> back 8 hours ago.
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> he'll prolly be online tomorrow again
01:18 <+crythias> the problem was about the default install adding pages...
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> in the bestedest timezone of the world =)
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
01:18 <+MrHairgrease> i read a bit of it
01:19 <+MrHairgrease> but i understand the difficulties
01:19 <@preaction> 7.4 fixed that iirc. you could add something to the wizard that would remove everything
01:20 <+crythias> why not simply have the default site as a package to deploy, even if you don't install it?
01:20 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno
01:20 <+crythias> that *is* a cool way to show what the package thing does.
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> and it's about 00;20 over here
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> so i don;t wanna know right now =)
01:21 <+crythias> ah. I'm -6 hours from you. I should get home.
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> you should
01:21 <+MrHairgrease> =)
01:22 <+MrHairgrease> it's almost weekend =)
01:22 <+MrHairgrease> only two days to go
01:22 <+MrHairgrease> are you attending the wuc this year btw?
01:24 <+crythias> I don't know. 
01:25 <+crythias> I'm going to see. Every year, I think I'm going to go somewhere.
01:25 <+MrHairgrease> somewhere else during the wuc you mean?
01:25 <+crythias> well, last year I thought I was going to be moving.
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> ah i see
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> but you didn't?
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> so you're gonna move this year?
01:26 <+crythias> no. chickened out.
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> that's not too bad
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> before you know it
01:26 <+crythias> actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.
01:26 <+MrHairgrease> you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:27 <+crythias> what? I'll get a Delorean?
01:27 <+crythias> and be able to use a remote control to control it?
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> i read somewhere deloerean is manufacturiong again
01:27 <+MrHairgrease> i'd opt for a kitt
01:27 <+crythias> I'll have my mom think I'm hot?
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> i have this thing for flashing leds
01:28 <+crythias> actually, have my mom think I'm Calvin Klein?
01:28 <+crythias> that's really creapy.
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> wtf?!?!?
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> you aren't calvin klein?
01:28 <+MrHairgrease> that a disappointment
01:28 <+crythias> well, I don't wear CK on my undies, that's for sure.
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> i'm sucking up to the worng people =)
01:29 <+crythias> and not so sure I need to fall out of a tree so my mom can take me in ...
01:29 <+crythias> anyway, how would I be like MJF?
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> MJF?
01:29 <+crythias> Michael J Fox
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> you aren't
01:29 <+crythias> comeon, it's your analogy...
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01:30 <+MrHairgrease> i must have been using drugs
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> without noticing
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:36) MrHairgrease: that's not too bad
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:42) MrHairgrease: before you know it
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:45) crythias: actually, job is secure, but we were looking to upgrade house.
01:30 <+crythias> (18:26:53) MrHairgrease: you'll be lik emicheal j fox in back to the future
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> oh that
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> that was about the chicken part
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> or better said
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> you chickening out
01:30 <+crythias> oh. how he gets all mad being called chicken
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
01:31 <+crythias> ok.
01:31 <+crythias> 'cause, yaknow, I wouldn't mind having a DeLorean
01:31 <+crythias> heheh
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> sure
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> but where do you get the jigowatts
01:31 <+crythias> Mr. Reactor
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> lightning is seldom over here
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> oh yeah
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> just dump your trash in your car
01:32 <+crythias> but it's all about the petrol
01:32 <+crythias> hey. how do you know that's what I do to my car? oh. you prob. mean the reactor
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> petrol is too expensive over here
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> so for now
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> i'll keep using my bike
01:33 <+crythias> we should be burning bole weevels
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> bole wheevels?
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> what are those
01:33 <+crythias> the scurge of the cotton crops
01:33 <+crythias> scourge
01:33 <+MrHairgrease> ah
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> scourge       (skūrj)  Pronunciation Key   
01:34 <+MrHairgrease>  n.    A source of widespread dreadful affliction and devastation such as that caused by pestilence or war. A means of inflicting severe suffering, vengeance, or punishment. A whip used to inflict punishment.   
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> sounds fun...
01:34 <+crythias> in fact, we could be running on maggot energy.
01:34 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:34 <+crythias> that's renewable in only a few days.
01:35 <+MrHairgrease> i see it's time to quit and go to bed
01:35 <+MrHairgrease> =)
01:35 <+MrHairgrease> later guys
01:35 <+crythias> making a car with efficient use of protein.. later
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02:48 < elnino> hello. I'm trying to dump the value of a cookie, that has a bunch of key value pairs:
02:48 < elnino> my ($cookies) = $session->http->getCookies;
02:48 < elnino> my $authcook  = $$cookies->{'cookiename'};
02:48 < elnino> return $authcookie->{$hashkey};
02:48 < elnino> but I must be doing something wrong?  I don't quite understand hashes...
02:49 < elnino> oh. geez, I see a variable is named wrong.. Other than that does the code look correct?
03:52 < elnino> I gotta go, Ill try this, and may be back
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04:07 <@preaction> finally EVDO is working for me. I can work from home tomorrow.
04:07 <@preaction> the latency is something like 2 seconds, but i can live with that
04:08 < SDuensin> 2 seconds?!
04:08 < SDuensin> You live on the moon or something?
04:09 <@preaction> no, it's cellular and i'm getting poor reception
04:09 <@preaction> 4 bars of 8, i imagine if i went outside it'd be better
04:09 < SDuensin> I use EVDO every day.  It's NIIIIIIIICE.
04:10 <@preaction> looks like just a few hundred ms now
04:11 < SDuensin> That's better.  :-)
04:11 < SDuensin> Who are you using?  Mine's a Verizon ExpressCard adapter.
04:12 <@preaction> SprintPCS Phone as Modem with a Samsung Upstage
04:12 <@preaction> gotta go, i think my gf just called
04:12 < SDuensin> See ya!
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13:47 < xootom> hi all, does anyone know why when i create groups of groups, the Admins group keeps appearing within groups?
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14:12 < AMH_henry> @xootom: i think admin should get rights from all groups.
14:13 < xootom> Just looks a bit odd as it's a child of every single group
14:15 < AMH_henry> well, if a group A is within group B then group A inherits all rights from group B. it looks a bit odd for admins but at least admins will always have all right
14:15 < AMH_henry> rights
14:21 < xootom> I see what you mean
14:22 < xootom> Just looks confusing when you see it as a tree structure (manage groups in this group) and everything has Admins in it
14:23 < AMH_henry> yes, it look me a while before i got it heheh
14:23 < xootom> Can I run a grouping scenario past you and see if you think it's the best approach?
14:25 < AMH_henry> i'm not an expert on it, but sure I can give it a try
14:28 < xootom> Thanks! I'm using groups to represent schools. So I have a group for each school. I want to group them into partnerships, as the schools work together in partnerships, so I have created a partnerships group, which contains each partnership group, which contains the schools. Now I want to be able to group them into geographical areas (counties).. should I add a group for each county, and add the schools into each county? Or is there a better way of making the sc
14:28 < xootom> I'm not sure how easily it will be manageable though
14:29 < xootom> Plus I have students in each school, so they'll join the school group. Then there are teachers, so they will be in the school group too but also in a teachers group, so they can access reports. But then will I need a separate group for teachers in each school, i.e. two groups for every school, if I want teachers in a school to be able to edit their own set of pages?
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14:45 < AMH_henry> this is a rather complicated problem... to begin with your last question. I would create a teachers group for each school and make all teaches members of it. Also create a students group for each school. And then a school group. A school group will be member of both teacher and student group.
14:46 < AMH_henry> this way if you for example want pages editable by every one in a school then you can you the school group. If you only want access for student then you student group.
14:46 < MrHairgreas1> don't you mean you'll make the teachers and student groups memeber of a school group in stead of the opposite
14:47 < AMH_henry> @MrHairgreas1: to my understanding it works the opposite way. If group A is in group B, then group A inherits all rights from group B. 
14:48 < MrHairgreas1> yeah
14:48 < MrHairgreas1> that's correct
14:49 < MrHairgreas1> maybe i shouldn't respond to questions i haven't heard
14:50 < MrHairgreas1> but in most cases it's logical to put the teachers and student group in a school group
14:50 < MrHairgreas1> that also follows the normal hierarchy
14:50 < AMH_henry> yeah, that's more logical indeed, but unfornately webgui has choosen differently
14:51 < MrHairgreas1> as far as i know webgui hasn't
14:52 < AMH_henry> of course it depends on how you makes use of those groups
14:54 < MrHairgreas1> of course
15:02 < AMH_henry> @xootom: the same for partnerships. each partnership can be member of schools. do you get the idea?
15:07 < MrHairgreas1> hmm
15:07 < MrHairgreas1> i think you're still explaining it upside down
15:07 < MrHairgreas1> if you have partnership group
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> which should contain the schools forming a partnership
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> you should make the schoolgroups a member of that specific partnership group
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> if you make a partnership group a member of a schoolgroup...
15:08 < MrHairgreas1> the school won't be in that partnership
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> however the partnership will be in that schoolgroup
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> but
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> that doesn't make sense b/c the partnership group will be empty
15:09 < MrHairgreas1> in the latter case
15:14 < xootom> yeah mrhairgreas1 that all makes sense
15:15 < MrHairgreas1> just view the groups in groups thing as a tree
15:16 < MrHairgreas1> lower levels have the privileges of higher levels
15:16 < MrHairgreas1> but not the other way around
15:17 < xootom> i think i need to have lots of groups in my system to see how it works
15:17 < MrHairgreas1> ah
15:17 < xootom> if you have thousands of groups set up, do you still get them all in the same long list where you choose to add them to another group?
15:17 < MrHairgreas1> the famous "there's only one way to find out how it works" approach
15:18 < MrHairgreas1> dunno
15:18 < MrHairgreas1> never used that many groups before
15:18 < AMH_henry> @MarHairgreas1: i think you are right if you reasons that way.
15:18 < MrHairgreas1> nor did i ever do very complex groupings
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> rize can prolly answer that question
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> rizen*
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> it might be beneficial to write your own group management interface for that particular purpose though
15:19 < MrHairgreas1> and make it more natural to do the kind of groupings you want to do
15:20 < MrHairgreas1> have it use the Group API in the back
15:20 < xootom> yeah you're probably right
15:20 < MrHairgreas1> it'll happily coexist with the default group manager
15:23 < xootom> going back to my original scenario, if there is a separate group for teachers in a school and students in a school, both within the school group, will the teacher be able to get reports out about the students? as they're in a different branch
15:23 < xootom> or should the teacher be under the students
15:23 < xootom> that might work then i just find the parent group..
15:23 < MrHairgreas1> what do you mean by getting reports out?
15:24 < MrHairgreas1> teachers should never be below students
15:24 < MrHairgreas1> that would be very bad for preserving order in the classroom =)
15:24 < AMH_henry> @xootom: you can always create a separate reports group
15:26 < xootom> it's probably getting over complicated for what I'm trying to set up. example is there are 1000 schools set up, each has say 100 students and 2 teachers with access. I have say 5 different reports, for example report 1 could be a score against each student. Now, I need this report to be available to all teachers in all schools, but it would show the teacher only the scores of the students in their own school
15:26 < xootom> that sums up what I'm trying to achieve (the reports in question are currently sql reports)
15:27 < xootom> on top of that, each school can have its own set of pages, the teachers of that school would have editing rights (that's where the group security element comes in)
15:27 < MrHairgreas1> so set the view group of that sqlreport to the "Teachers of school X" group
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> for the school pages
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> set the privs as follows
15:28 < xootom> yeah but then i'd have to create the 5 reports 1000 times for each school wouldn't i?
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> view: school X group (teachers and students are in it)
15:28 < MrHairgreas1> edit: "teachers of school x" group
15:29 < MrHairgreas1> you'll have to do that anyway i guess
15:29 < xootom> yeah that's fine
15:29 < xootom> just how to have one set of reports, not having to maintain 1000 versions
15:30 < MrHairgreas1> i'm not sure you can do that with just an sql report
15:31 < MrHairgreas1> it depends on how the scores are stored i guess
15:31 < xootom> essentially a table with userId against scores
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> hmm
15:32 < xootom> so i can query the webgui database groupings to find all the users in a group, and find all the scores for those users
15:32 < xootom> but if the teachers and students are in different groups
15:32 < xootom> hmm might just need a more complex query to join it all together
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> what you could do it
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> is*
15:32 < MrHairgreas1> figure out in which school group the teacher is
15:33 < MrHairgreas1> and then get all users in the groups of that group
15:33 < MrHairgreas1> in that case you'll get the uids
15:33 < xootom> yeah i wonder if i could write a macro to do that
15:33 < MrHairgreas1> of both teachers and students for a school
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> for the report the teacher being in there don't matter
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> b/c they don't have score in that table anyway
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> you could write a macro
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> but it could potentiall give you a long list of results
15:34 < MrHairgreas1> what you could also try to do is create a VIEW
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> containing student coupled to teachers or something like that
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> and use that in your query
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> just giving options
15:35 < xootom> ahhh yeah
15:35 < MrHairgreas1> dunno how weel it would work
15:36 < xootom> arr got to go for a bit thanks for all your help :)
15:36 < MrHairgreas1> np
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15:50 < AMH_bob> Goodmorning!
15:51 < MrHairgreas1> hi
15:51 < SDuensin> Hey AMH_bob & MrHairgreas1 
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17:48 < elnino> hello - quick question. What pm module and method do I use to get the current page's viewable group?
17:56 < AMH_henry> @elnino: you mean something like $asset->get('groupIdView')?
17:58 < nuba>  /na
17:58 < nuba> oops
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18:07 < elnino> Im thinking that will do it.  How would I get the current page I'm on?
18:09 < AMH_henry> if you have the current asset you can test if it's a PageLayout. If not, then try its parent.
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18:12 < elnino> oh. ??  I'm coding my own Auth mod, and simply copied webui's a rewrote the login form, so I don't think I have the current asset either.
18:14 < AMH_henry> you can get it by $session->asset
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18:37 < xootom> has anyone got an example of the GroupAdd macro working? its third parameter is a template, when is this displayed?
18:38 <@preaction> the template is used to display the macro itself
18:39 < xootom> i'll experiment
18:40 <@preaction> apparently all the GroupAdd macro does is display a link for the user to add itself to a group if the group is set to "autoAdd" and the user is not yet part of that group
18:41 < xootom> how come the first parameter is groupname, not groupid? there can be multiple groups with the same name, it's not a key field is it?
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> no
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> groupid is the only valid identifier
18:42 <+MrHairgrease> at least the one that won't break
18:42 < elnino> AMH_henry: Thanks for your help! I'll go try it now. bye.
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18:55 < xootom> trying the GroupAdd macro out, it seems to work with groups that don't have spaces in the name. it still showed after i'd joined the group though, which i don't think it should as the conditions for its display are that you're not a member already.
18:55 < xootom> should groups not have spaces in their names? and how do i identify other groups with the same name
18:56 <@rizen> why do you have multiple groups with the same name?
18:56 <@rizen> how would you ever tell them apart
18:56 <@rizen> you shouldn't do that
18:57 < xootom> i just tried it, i probably wouldn't choose to do that, but if I create a duplicate it doesn't say i can't
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18:58 <@rizen> i suppose we should protect users from themselves
18:58 <@rizen> report it as a bug
18:58 < xootom> i suppose in my previous example, each school is a group and could contain a sub-group of "students" and "teachers", there would then be lots of different groups with the same name.. I thought it was only a label, but with GroupAdd it's being used as an identifier
18:59 < elnino> hello. quick question. How do I de-encode a value that is stored in a cookie? the string has a space and when I display it on the webpage, a plus sign is displayed.
18:59 <@rizen> listen to what you are saying
18:59 <@rizen> so if you go into the groups manager
18:59 <@rizen> and you have 10,000 groups called "Students"
18:59 <@rizen> how wouuld you ever tell them apart?
18:59 <@preaction> elnino, cookies are stored urlencoded
19:00 < xootom> oh i know, i wouldn't do that because the groups aren't displayed in a tree, it's not easy to see the structure
19:00 <@rizen> instead your groups should be named "Students of School X"
19:00 <@preaction> elnino, use URI::Escape; uri_unescape(cookie string) # iirc
19:00 < elnino> perfect thanks!
19:00 < xootom> Yeah but they are limited to only 20 odd characters, i can't even fit in my test schools names without the students of school bit
19:01 <@rizen> they aren't stored in a tree simply because they aren't inherently hierarchical
19:01 <@rizen> 20 characters/
19:01 <@rizen> ?
19:01 < elnino> preaction: thanks for your help! bye.
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19:01 < xootom> "Warmley Park Special Needs Sch"
19:01 < xootom> then it chops off
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19:01 <@rizen> 30 characters according to the DB, but that should be increased
19:02 <@rizen> feel free to report that as a bug too
19:02 < xootom> yeah yes you're right 30
19:02 <@rizen> that should be increased to 255 characters
19:03 <@rizen> well maybe not that long
19:03 <@rizen> that's a sentence
19:03 < xootom> lol
19:06 < xootom> the problem if you do have duplicate group names - is that the problem, that it lets you create duplicate group names, as they are supposed to be unique identifiers... or should it be that groupadd takes the groupId as the parameter
19:07 < xootom> and groupadd doesn't seem to work if there are spaces in the group name
19:08 <@preaction> are you quoting the group name?
19:08 < xootom> yeah
19:08 < xootom> and should it disappear once i've joined the group
19:08 <@preaction> yes
19:08 < xootom> so i guess i could replace it with groupdel so they can leave again
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19:16 < xootom> just a random question, is the current version "7.4.0 beta", that will then turn into "7.4.0 (stable)" or will it go 7.4.0 beta to 7.4.1?
19:17 <@preaction> 7.4.0 beta will go to 7.4.1
19:17 < xootom> ok thanks
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20:13 <@rizen> preaction, what's the difference between ubuntu 6 and 7
20:13 <@rizen> is 7 a bleeding edge release?
20:13 <@preaction> no, all their releases are 6-month timespans
20:14 <@preaction> feature freeze at 5 months
20:14 <@preaction> so basically all the software is updated every 6 months
20:14 <@rizen> but it says that 6.06 is supported until 2011 but 7.04 is only supported until 2008
20:14 <@preaction> right, 6.06 was an "LTS" release, supported for 5 years
20:15 <@rizen> ok, so if i'm going to build a WRE for Ubunut, then 6.06 would be the version to choose, right?
20:15 <@preaction> if, for example, you didn't want to upgrade the entire system all tie time
20:15 <@preaction> i don't know, i use ubuntu on the desktop, and i don't know what ubuntu server users do
20:15 <@preaction> i'd say the latest stable
20:16 <@preaction> and if necessary they can backport
20:16 <@rizen> methinks that anybody really serving stuff is going to want long term support
20:17 <@preaction> most likely, and there will always be community builds
20:27 < nuba> rizen: got a couple of minutes?
20:28 < nuba> well just reply when you get around, anyway..
20:29 < nuba> im building a photo gallery using userDefinied{1,2} to store lat and long
20:30 < nuba> i've modified the rss template to include them, and modified the description to get output like this feed "http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/groups_pool.gne?id=322338@N20&format=rss_200&georss=1"
20:30 < nuba> which then allows me to render them in the googlemaps asset easily
20:31 < nuba> now I wonder if there could be a "location" form gadget for webgui
20:32 < nuba> so that you could point/click or search for a location, 
20:32 < nuba> in this case, this is a photo gallery
20:33 < nuba> but I can see how you could benefit from being able to assign location attributes to random things inside webgui
20:34 <@preaction> Events perhaps?
20:34 < nuba> like, imagine a wiki page with knowledge related to a location
20:35 < nuba> yeah, events could be nice. if you can output rss from the events, then you could render that in the googlemaps asset as well
20:35 < nuba> (i havent really looked at the events asset yet)
20:36 <@preaction> there are some complicated parts, but those should be abstracted out in the future
20:38 < nuba> the "location form gadget" would be something like picasa's "Photo Location
20:38 < nuba> ©2007 Google - Map data ©2007 NAVTEQ. - Terms of Use
20:38 < nuba> "
20:38 < nuba> box
20:38 < nuba> ugh
20:38 < sno> I just built WRE 0.7.2 on Ubuntu server
20:38 < nuba> like the one at the bottom-right corner here: http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.smilak/BestOfAmericaSGrandCircle/photo#4974034093674070034
20:38 < sno> I used 6.06 because it was best supported by VMWare
20:40 < sno> There were some additional perl modules necessary to get Spectre operational.
20:40 < sno> Outside the WRE package.
20:41 < sno> mod_perl also had some dependancies not provided.
20:41 < nuba> sno: you can add the additional steps you had to perform to the wiki, if you took notes during the setup
20:41 < nuba> that may help someone in the future
20:41 < nuba> or you, in case you lose your notes and have to do it again ;)
20:42 < sno> If my current project is delayed significantly, I can provide documentation for the whole Ubuntu server 6.06 install process.
20:42 < sno> The project comes first though.
20:42 < nuba> cool
20:43 < sno> The base Ubuntu Server install fails to includes some necessary components as well.
20:44 < sno> VMWare is very cool.  I've been using it since v4.2
20:44 < sno> I think Plainblack should create VMWare appliances for WebGUI
20:45 < sno> Lots of organizations have built server instances to plug and play.
20:46 < sno> I know VMWare is not Open Source, but it is still a great resource.  And the VMWare server engine is free distribution.
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21:03 <@rizen> nuba, i don't see any reason not to have a location form control
21:04 <@rizen> sno, the problem with that is keeping it up to date
21:04 <@rizen> i haven't yet found a way to automate the build process
21:04 <@rizen> in addition, the distribution package will be enormous
21:05 <@rizen> regardless, it is on my radar and if the means to automate the build process presents itself, i probably will do it at some point
21:11 < sno> I see it as two problems.  Establishing a baseline install, and then a separate upgrade solution.
21:11 < sno> I've found that getting it going was the hardest part.
21:13 < sno> More people would try WebGUI if they didn't have to abort the installation due to technical problems.
21:14 < sno> I'm a competent package installer and WebGUI is one of the hardest installs I've ever done.
21:15 <@rizen> i agree that it's difficult to do, but that's what the WRE is all about..admittedly it's not quite there yet, but it's getting closer with each release
21:16 < sno> WRE 0.7.2 was a 24 hour install for me.  And I've had practice with older versions.
21:16 <@rizen> yeah, but you compiled it from scratch rather than using a binary
21:16 <@rizen> when i'm using binaries i can install the WRE and WebGUI in under 15 minutes
21:17 < sno> I tried that and dropped it.  Iinstead whent the virtual machine routel
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21:17 < sno> Way too many problems with SUSE 10.2
21:18 < sno> I VM'd Ubuntu 6.06 with WRE 0.7.2 and that took the whole day.  Admittedly, some of the problem was because I used Ubuntu server instead of workstation.
21:19 <@rizen> but there again there isn't a binary...at least not one created by us
21:19 < sno> Ubuntu server leaves some packages out that WebGUI relies on.
21:19 <@rizen> in addition, that's the reason that the WRE is still at a 0.x release level
21:19 < sno> WRE 0.7.2 ubuntu 6.06 isn't a binary?
21:19 <@rizen> we know it's not perfect yet
21:20 <@rizen> i said there isn't one created by us
21:20 < sno> Yep, I understand.
21:20 < sno> Ah, then sourceforge has a contributed one?
21:20 <@rizen> the only binaries we create right now are RHEL, OSX, and Windows
21:20 <@rizen> yes
21:20 < sno> I see.
21:20 <@rizen> starting with WRE 0.8.0 we'll be putting out Ubuntu and FreeBSD as well
21:22 < sno> I'm just thinking that a VM Server that is plug in and play would be a great baseline system for someone to get the feel of WebGUI.  Updating processes would come afterwards.
21:22 < sno> I'm unsure what Xen brings to this 
21:22 <@rizen> and as the owner of a company who want's to put his best foot forward, if it comes from us, I want it to have the latest version, and that means an automated build process
21:23 < sno> Sure.  I understand that too.
21:23 < sno> That doesn't necessarily rule out Way-point type of distributions.
21:24 < sno> Someone isn't going to want to toss their entire operational web site because they want to download the latest prebuilt server.
21:24 < sno> Of course, I'm just talking.  Not insisting here.
21:25 < sno> I'm interested in good things too.
21:27 < sno> Anyway, my thought was that having known way-point VM'd server distributions presents a production base-line for offering enhancements to the latest version.
21:28 < sno> (to get to the latest version)
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21:30 < sno> A VM'd server may not be the best way to handle this for all time.  I'm just thinking of the first-timer.  If someone can get WebGUI operational with a minimum of effort, they might decide it fits their production environment faster.
21:30 < sno> Then they would go to a custom installation.
21:31 < sno> More stable units out there could mean more support requests.
21:33 < nuba> there was some talk of a webgui community appliance once, long ago
21:33 < nuba> by then vmware was running a community appliance contest
21:34 < sno> If you have VMWare Workstation (like I do) an appliance can be built.  I built a VM for my development work this week.  It's not suitable for a public appliance, but it can be done with a little more effore.
21:34 < sno> effort.
21:35 < sno> Ideally, it would not be a WRE install on top of a Linux distribution, but an integrated solution.
21:36 < nuba> well, there are appliances available for most of the linuxes already
21:36 < nuba> i think the fastest way for a webgui appliance
21:36 < nuba> would be downloading one of those for which there's a binary wre available
21:36 < nuba> then get the rig going
21:38 < sno> Doesn't a WRE binary install supplant some installed components, providing it's own environment?
21:39 < nuba> i think so, i had to install some stuff inside a freebsd jail to compile it,
21:39 < sno> It is certainly plausible to build a VM server with WRE binary installation because I've done it.  However, a baseline project should probably be fully integrated with the host opsys.
21:39 < nuba> then inside other jails i only had to copy the /data/wre to get it working
21:40 < nuba> define: fully integrated with the host opsys
21:41 < sno> When I install WRE, I get two full perl instances on my filesystem.  One for the host, and one for WebGUI.
21:41 < sno> The host system having already installed one of them.
21:41 < sno> Same for Apache, etc.
21:42 < nuba> well, remove the OS's apache if you want
21:42 < nuba> wouldn't recommend doing that with perl
21:42 < sno> A source install would be better, but is a slow and bumpy process.
21:42 < nuba> some system scripts could go borke
21:42 < sno> Indeed.
21:43 < sno> If a select few base opsys were chosen, and a WebGUI source deployment applied to it.  That would be the basis for an integrated WebGUI appliance.
21:43 < nuba> I wouldn't worry about integrating with the OS's further than the crontab :)
21:44 < nuba> isnt the goal of what you're proposing just for webgui to get the foot in the doro?
21:44 < nuba> door*
21:44 < nuba> with this appliance?
21:44 < sno> Clean, tight, compact (or as compact as possible).
21:44 < nuba> let the masses try webgui..
21:44 < sno> That is an argument for an appliance.
21:44 < sno> I'm just thinking about how the appliance could/should be deployed.
21:45 < nuba> actually i think the public available demo addresses that nicely
21:45 < sno> But that is not permanent.  
21:45 < nuba> then the vmware appliace would come handy
21:45 < sno> Handing someone an appliance means they have a working environment for all time.
21:45 < sno> Right.
21:46 < nuba> still, one thing is building a 'check this shit out' appliance, 
21:46 < sno> rizen is concerned about providing the latest version at all times.
21:46 < nuba> another thing is a finely tuned custum built webgui appliance for production deployment
21:46 < sno> Right.
21:47 < sno> But there is no reason that a properly configured appliance can not serve both.
21:47 < nuba> not to mention requirements for deployment will be different
21:47 < nuba> then there's clustering...
21:47 < nuba> and so on..
21:47 < sno> And thus support contracts kick in.
21:47 < nuba> things get messy real quickly :)
21:47 < sno> and the revenue stream jumps.
21:48 < sno> Get them in the door, then sell them something.
21:49 < sno> I'm pretty sure WebGUI is built on that model.
21:49 < sno> This just takes it that one step further.  Easy installation.
21:50 < sno> All the mumbo-jumbo about a qualified appliance is really a discussion about what you want your in-the-door product to act like.
21:50 < sno> I much prefer a baseline that can be added to like legos.
21:51 < sno> And then when you outgrow your current set-up, well Plainblack has solutions for you.
21:51 < sno> Friendly, qualified technicians.
21:51 < sno> Oh, and there's the hosting...
21:52 < sno> Like to chat more, but time to go.
21:53 < nuba> ok
21:53 < nuba> you should check plainblack's hosting plans etc
21:54 < nuba> i think they're throwing the net and catching the fish earlier than you think
21:55 < nuba> see the demo, like it ? signup for the cheaper hosting plan.. then grow from there.
22:00 < nuba> anyway, check with rizen, i just hang here :)
22:21 < xootom> got a very quick question, i'm just on my way out :) if i have lots of groups, how are they presented in say the security tab, would hundreds be listed in the 'edit' drop down still?
22:22 <@rizen> yes, although that is getting changed to a selection from control the same as user is in an upcoming 7.4.x release
22:23 <@preaction> if they're "Show In Forms", yes
22:24 <@preaction> rizen, the ajax search thing?
22:24 <@rizen> it's not ajax, it's just a popup window that lets you search users
22:24 <@preaction> ah
22:25 <@rizen> it could be ajax, it just isn't
22:25 < xootom> cool thanks
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22:49 < nuba> interesting: http://perlsurvey.org/
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00:34 < nuba> in the ./Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm, sub getRssItems, we have inside the hashrefs pushed to @{$attachmentLoop}, the following: attachment.url, attachment.path, attachment_thumbnail, attachment.length. Why the _ on attachment_thumbnail ?
00:36 <@rizen> because it was created after the new best practices policy change
00:36 <@rizen> template variables can't have . in them anymore
00:36 <@rizen> and starting with 7.5 (probably) all existing template variables will automatically be converted to use _ instead of .
00:36 < nuba> ok
00:37 < nuba> was the new policy published somewhere ?
00:37 <@rizen> yes, the dev mailing list and the wiki
00:37 < nuba> i thought _ would apply to TT templates only
00:37 <@rizen> back in january
00:37 < nuba> ok. thx
00:38 <@rizen> it was part of my new years resolution
00:38 < nuba> i didnt see it, checking out now..
00:38 <@rizen> it's also been talked about on IRC in the months since then, but you may not have been on while we talked about it
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00:45 < nuba> probably
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01:15 < nuba> rizen: regarding the mini-beta thing, is there a "asset style guide" or "feature guide" anywhere ?
01:16 < nuba> like, "if possible, export table-data as CSV or etc"
01:16 <@rizen> what mini beta thing?
01:16 < nuba> "allow for importing and/or exporting in formats usually adopted when dealing with such type of data"
01:17 < nuba> mini-beta thread on dev list from July 7 2007
01:17 <@rizen> url?
01:17 <@rizen> sorry, i don't remember word for word everything that is said on there
01:18 < nuba> well you're complaining about the low quality of the interface or feature set of some assets
01:18 < nuba> low usability
01:18 <@rizen> do you have a url or not?
01:18 < nuba> badly designed interface etc.
01:18 <@rizen> i'll take that as no
01:18 < nuba> http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/mini-beta#O8Qve3OXnIvwnp2GIUFxmQ
01:19 < nuba> sorry I thought first you were asking if I wanted a URL to such a interface/feature guide
01:19 <@rizen> ok
01:19 <@rizen> what do you mean by feature guide?
01:19 < nuba> maybe you or someone should write a small guide of 'feature patterns'
01:20 < nuba> like "if you asset has child assets, provide means to list, search, edit, add, remove them"
01:20 <@rizen> no there isn't such a thing
01:20 < nuba> "when applicable or recommended, block the addition of child assets to your child"
01:21 < nuba> etc.
01:21 <@rizen> i really only have one statement in that regard: "Leave nothing unfinished. Take everything to it's logical conclusion."
01:21 <@rizen> ok that's two statements
01:21 <@rizen> but they mean the same
01:22 < nuba> ok
01:22 <@rizen> you're probably right that at some point someone should write such a document
01:22 <@rizen> but i'm afraid i'm not that guy
01:23 < nuba> well the thing is what you call "unfinished business" could be "good enough" for other people, thats when having such guide would be handy
01:23 <@rizen> i understand why it would be useful
01:23 < nuba> so it could be called a JT-compliant asset
01:23 <@rizen> i'm just not the guy to write ite
01:24 < nuba> k
01:24 < nuba> i may write, or help write one, eventually
01:25 < nuba> right now im mostly learning the webgui way by inspecting other people's code and the api
01:27 <@rizen> currently there's only one file in all of webgui 7.4 that follows the best practices to the letter
01:27 <@rizen> lib/WebGUI/Keywords.pm
01:28 <@rizen> we adopted the Perl Best Practices back in January, but it's going to take a long time before we can bring the entire codebase up to that standard
01:29 < nuba> k
01:39 < nuba> this Keywords.pm looks interesting, im updating to 7.4.1 to see it working
01:39 < nuba> sounds like what I had in mind earlier today, re: mapping random assets inside webgui
01:40 <@rizen> it's basically what other sites call "tags"
01:40 < nuba> im failiar with tags and tagclouds
01:40 <@rizen> but we already have HTML tags, template tags, and version tags
01:40 < nuba> i mean the implementation
01:40 <@rizen> so i didn't want to confuse the situation
01:40 <@rizen> anymore than it already is
01:40 < nuba> i mean a sitewide table 
01:41 <@rizen> well this API is capable of being applied to all assets
01:41 < nuba> i thought of a locations table, with assetId, lat, long
01:41 <@rizen> i just ran out of time
01:41 <@rizen> so currently it's only for the wiki
01:41 < nuba> yeah thats what I saw there
01:41 < nuba> nice
01:42 <@rizen> yeah, i think you'd need something different for the locations, but it would be a similar api
01:42 < nuba> btw a locator form gadget would call for a sitewide googlemaps key
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01:42 < nuba> so for it to work the site admin would have to go and fetch a api key
01:42 < nuba> i suppose you're ok with that reqiurement
01:42 < nuba> in the understanding that you'd be interesting in adding such gadget to the core
01:43 < nuba> oops, interested*
01:43 <@rizen> hmmm...i hadn't considered that
01:43 < nuba> i thought "it would be interesting" but changed mind in the middle of it :)
01:43 <@rizen> i guess it would be ok as long as people didn't have to use the key unless they wanted to use the asset that uses it
01:44 < nuba> well,  i can visualize that being like a WebGUI::Form::Location thing
01:44 < nuba> is that how you think of it too?
01:44 < nuba> or what?
01:45 <@rizen> the form yes
01:45 <@rizen> but the site wide google key...i don't want people to have to register for google keys just so they can create a webgui site
01:45 <@rizen> so this location form control has to automatically disable itself
01:46 <@rizen> unless the user has the key
01:46 < nuba> ok. so if (nokey) { graceously poof }
01:46 <@rizen> or if not disabled, it needs to downgrade gracefully to a simple lat/long field
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01:47 < nuba> ok
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01:57 < nuba> rizen: on the gotcha.txt, line 47, s/tempalates/templates/
02:14 < nuba> also check this string
02:14 < nuba> [root@frozen tools]# head -200 /data/WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt 
02:14 < nuba> and some repeated line
02:14 < nuba> on http://www.plainblack.com/getwebgui/advisories/webgui-7_4_0-beta-released
02:15 < nuba> lines*
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03:13 <+crythia1> no public announcement on 7.4.1?
03:13 -!- crythia1 changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.1 | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)
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10:51 < Radix-europe> Mornin'
10:52 < AMH_henry> morning :)
10:53 < Radix-europe> :)
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14:09 < xootom> i'm struggling with my groupings problem still, if anyone has a moment.. i mentioned yesterday about having a group for every school, and within this, a group for students of the school and teachers of the school. anyone can join the students group, but access to the teachers group is controlled. if i'm logged on as a teacher, how can i get a list of students of the school? i might be in lots of different groups, so how do i identify which group is a school and
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14:17 < AMH_henry> @xootom: a group has a description field. You could fill that field with something that identify a school uniquely and search for it
14:18 < xootom> ahh you're right, that would help. but how do i know which school i'm in as a teacher, if i get a list of my groups it'll contain all sorts including forum subscriptions, etc etc
14:19 < AMH_henry> teachers also belong to a teachers group, right? You can use the description field in that group
14:23 < xootom> true, maybe all the teachers of school x and teachers of school y groups should sit under a teachers group. then i just find which group they are in which is a child of the teachers group. then i take the description which is the school name, and find the group that is students of that name
14:24 < xootom> not sure if its open to abuse though using descriptions like that, would forum post subscriptions contain school names or anything
14:27 < xootom> perhaps it would be easier without a students group, they are just in the school group
14:28 < xootom> yes that might work, a group of schools containing all the schools, a group of teachers containing a teacher group for every school, then i can find the teacher group for a teacher and using the matching description find the non-teacher school group
14:30 < AMH_henry> who is responsible for adding students and teachers?
14:31 < xootom> self registering students can add themselves to a school, some students will be imported from csv files and added to the school. teachers will all be manually added to their school's teacher group
14:32 < Radix-europe> xootoo - we manage our groups using sql lookups.  Every user has an account, but they don't belong to any groups by default.  Instead we use sql lookups to determine group membership - so we have a table in mysql that equates to each user and simply a number of rows for each group with a boolean flag in each.  Its simple but works a treat for us.
14:33 < xootom> do you need to create them all as webgui groups first?
14:33 < Radix-europe> yes
14:33 < xootom> brb
14:40 < AMH_henry> @xootom: another idea. Instead of using the description field, you could use AssetId as identification. Say each school has a unique number. All Students groups get assetId's like STUDENT<schoolID> (padding to 22 char. long) and all teachers group gets assetId's like TEACHER<schoolId>. This way you can easily find matching groups. It's a bit of an hack, but it's faster than using description field.
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15:55 < xootom> @amh_henry: thanks, what are assetids normally used for?
15:56 < AMH_henry> @xootom: assetId are the unique identifiers for an asset. btw, i meant group id
15:59 < xootom> ahh that's a good idea, i was thinking of having the school group's id the same as the school's id in our crm system, i could prefix it with s_ or t_ or something
16:01 < xootom> yeah if i precede it with teacher_ i can search for the group starting "teacher_" that the user is in to get the school's id
16:01 < xootom> thanks for your help :)
16:05 < AMH_henry> you're welcome :)
16:10 < AMH_henry> Wow! Your version:                                You are using 7.4.0-beta and 7.4.1-beta is available.
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16:20 < xootom> yeah i upgraded yesterday, these versions are coming out swiftly! got to make sure you don't miss one or the upgrade fails though
16:29 < xootom> amh_henry: are groupids max 22 characters?
16:29 < MrHairgreas1> yes
16:29 < MrHairgreas1> all guids are 22 chracters
16:30 < MrHairgreas1> please note that guids MUST be unique
16:31 < MrHairgreas1> so only generate them by yourself if you know what you are doing
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16:31 < xootom> sugar crm ids have 36 chars, maybe i'd be better using webgui to generate groups with random guids, and save those into the sugar db instead, or have another linking table
16:37 < xootom> hmm i've got a groupid 3, admins and a userid also with 3, is that bad?
16:39 < AMH_henry> that's default
16:40 < AMH_henry> groupid and userid are separate things
16:41 < xootom> ok so within a class of asset they must be unique
16:43 < AMH_henry> hmm... assets, groups and users are different entities. They all have their own unique id.
16:47 < MrHairgrease> assets have an owner
16:47 < MrHairgrease> which is a userID
16:47 < MrHairgrease> and a group toe edit and a group to view
16:47 < MrHairgrease> which are both groupId's
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16:53 < danny_mk> Good morning
16:53 < MrHairgrease> hi
16:53 < danny_mk> I know about the Forms
16:54 < danny_mk> however, I was wondering if anyone had a macro that would build a date picker field with a popup calendar
16:54 < danny_mk> since the yui library is already available it should be pretty easy to do
16:55 < MrHairgrease> as far as i know there is no such macro
16:55 < MrHairgrease> but it would be trivial to make
16:55 < MrHairgrease> what i don not understand however
16:55 < danny_mk> well, I am writting it now, just wanted to make sure it was not already done
16:55 < MrHairgrease> is what you want to do with such a macro
16:58 < danny_mk> well, how do you pass n+ fields to a sql report?
16:58 < danny_mk> if the user has to input these fields?
16:59 < MrHairgrease> oh
16:59 < MrHairgrease> i see
16:59 < MrHairgrease> your putting it in a sql report template
16:59 < MrHairgrease> and use the result in the query
16:59 < MrHairgrease> s/result/inputted date/
16:59 < danny_mk> it would be nice to have a macro that created an input tag with a popup calendar and date validation
17:00 < danny_mk> no
17:01 < danny_mk> picture this.  I have a sql report that produces a listing of states, something like:  <a href="/wgasseturl/moreinfo?id=5">Connecticut</a>
17:02 < danny_mk> the moreinfo page has a sql report that shows the current state information
17:03 < danny_mk> underneath that I have an article that contains an html table for fields within that state that I would like to modify
17:04 < danny_mk> the article is actually a form that has an action oofo /wgasseturl/updateinfo/
17:05 < danny_mk> when the contents of the modified state information get posted to updateinfo the database is updated
17:05 < danny_mk> does that help?
17:06 < MrHairgrease> and updateinfo is a custom asset?
17:08 < danny_mk> no, I think a sql report will do the job, have not gotten there yet.   Still working on the date field deal
17:08 < MrHairgrease> how does updateinfo update the db then?
17:09 < danny_mk> I havent gotten to that point yet.  I am still working on the more info page.  I think it can be done with a sql report as well.
17:10 < MrHairgrease> sql reports cannot update the db
17:10 < MrHairgrease> unless you state that your dblink allows that
17:11 < MrHairgrease> but allowing db writes through the sql report
17:11 < MrHairgrease> will almost certainly open security holes
17:11 < danny_mk> I can always write a custom asset, that is not show stopper
17:12 < MrHairgrease> yeah
17:12 < MrHairgrease> but if you do that
17:12 < MrHairgrease> you won't have to use this really complex setup
17:12 < MrHairgrease> also what you might consider using is the sqlform
17:12 < danny_mk> hmm... I did not think it was complex at all
17:12 < MrHairgrease> or maybe even a collaboration system
17:14 < MrHairgrease> if you are using articles to create input form that send data to some other page which will try to update the db without the ability to at least sanity check the data that's being put in
17:14 < MrHairgrease> i think your doing stuff too complicated =)
17:14 < MrHairgrease> but that's just me =)
17:15 < MrHairgrease> my guess is
17:15 < MrHairgrease> that what you want to do is possible using the SQLForm asset
17:15 < MrHairgrease> it's for power users only
17:15 < MrHairgrease> but you seem like one
17:16 < MrHairgrease> so give it a try
17:16 < danny_mk> you know, the save button for sqlform was disabled on my installation, I have to figure out why
17:17 < danny_mk> never mind, I just figured out why :-(
17:18 < MrHairgrease> it's diabled b/c you haven;t typed in a tablename yet
17:18 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:18 < danny_mk> anyway, it would still be nice to have a macro that generated that type of field
17:18 < MrHairgrease> sure
17:19 < MrHairgrease> go ahead and code it
17:19 < MrHairgrease> =)
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17:19 < danny_mk> sort of like ^YUIWGDatePicker("myFieldName");
17:19 < danny_mk> LOL, I was almost done with it when I asked
17:20 < MrHairgrease> heh
17:20 < danny_mk> I just thought to myself, "WHAT THE HELL am I DOING?"
17:20 < danny_mk> LOL
17:22 < danny_mk> I thought that there had to be an easier way, perhaphs someone already coded this or there is a way to do it already
17:28 < xootom> is it intentional that the default group for sql reports' download user group is ad manager?
17:28 < MrHairgrease> i don't think so
17:28 < MrHairgrease> my guess is
17:29 < MrHairgrease> that ad manager has the top position of the select box
17:29 < MrHairgrease> alphabetically it's ranked pretty much on top i guess
17:31 < danny_mk> MrHairGrease:  You know the SQLForm is still in Beta and defiinitely showing some odd behavior.  I got the "save" button enabled once when I typed in the table name
17:32 < danny_mk> but now it just won't enable again, no matter how many times I type in the table name
17:32 < danny_mk> I commited my changes and cleared the cache just in case but no dice
17:33 < MrHairgrease> oh
17:33 < MrHairgrease> that's weird
17:33 < MrHairgrease> you are not importing a table are you?
17:33 < danny_mk> does not matter
17:33 < danny_mk> if I leave it unchecked its dissabled
17:33 < danny_mk> if I check it its disabled
17:34 < MrHairgrease> hmm
17:34 < MrHairgrease> dunno directly what's wrong then
17:34 < danny_mk> have you used it before?
17:34 < MrHairgrease> i wrote it
17:34 < MrHairgrease> but i haven't used it  lately
17:34 < danny_mk> Ah, OK
17:34 < MrHairgrease> still
17:35 < MrHairgrease> if something going wrong t should tell you about it
17:35 < MrHairgrease> in stead of just not work
17:35 < MrHairgrease> =)
17:35 < MrHairgrease> which browser are you on?
17:35 < danny_mk> what is the trigger to get it enabled?  
17:35 < danny_mk> I am using Firefox 2.0.0.6
17:35 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:35 < MrHairgrease> which dblink are you using
17:36 < danny_mk> the one to my db
17:36 < MrHairgrease> not the webgui db right?
17:36 < danny_mk> it works fine for my reporot
17:36 < danny_mk> no, not the webgui one
17:36 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:36 < MrHairgrease> are you allowed to create table in that db?
17:36 < danny_mk> yup
17:37 < MrHairgrease> and this table name you entered
17:37 < danny_mk> hmm... let me check the username for that link
17:37 < MrHairgrease> does that exist already?
17:38 < danny_mk> darnit, in the list of allowed keywords I did not have "create"
17:38 < danny_mk> let me test it again.
17:38 < MrHairgrease> that shouldn't matter afaik
17:38 < danny_mk> well, I did not think it should since the object already exists in the db
17:39 < MrHairgrease> something has prolly gone wrong creating the table
17:39 < MrHairgrease> it's just weird that it didn't complain
17:39 < danny_mk> OK, I don't want to create the table
17:39 < danny_mk> the table already exists
17:39 < MrHairgrease> oh
17:39 < MrHairgrease> in that case
17:39 < MrHairgrease> you must be very careful
17:40 < MrHairgrease> the sqlform will change you table
17:40 < MrHairgrease> drop primary keys
17:40 < MrHairgrease> add columns
17:40 < MrHairgrease> so if you need it the way it is
17:40 < MrHairgrease> don't import it
17:40 < danny_mk> ok, then I can't use the SQLForm
17:40 < MrHairgrease> that why there is an import this table switch
17:40 < danny_mk> I would like to leave these as is
17:40 < MrHairgrease> it will not import tables
17:41 < MrHairgrease> if you do not switch it on
17:41 < MrHairgrease> but it should've told you that
17:41 < MrHairgrease> ok
17:41 < MrHairgrease> in that case
17:41 < MrHairgrease> you'd prolly be best off wrinting an asset specifically for it
17:41 < danny_mk> Ah, LOL.  I am back where I started :-)
17:42 < MrHairgrease> but you can combine the view and edit mode for your db
17:42 < MrHairgrease> in one asset
17:42 < MrHairgrease> in a safe way
17:42 < MrHairgrease> not by posting stuff to sqlreports with dblinks that allow updates
17:42 < MrHairgrease> heh
17:42 < MrHairgrease> good way to start the weekend =)
17:43 < danny_mk> question 2
17:43 < danny_mk> I know there are many webmail clients out there.  I currenly use OpenWebMail.  I was wondering if Webgui had a native WebMail client.  
17:44 < MrHairgrease> no
17:44 < MrHairgrease> not that i know off anyway
17:44 < MrHairgrease> of*
17:45 < danny_mk> OK
17:46 < danny_mk> There was a discussion on single sign on that showed a link to a collaboration suite written in Perl that looked interesting, I will have to find that again
17:46 < danny_mk> I need a good WebMail client for one of my websites.
17:48 < MrHairgrease> i don't think webgui offers you that
17:48 < MrHairgrease> yet
17:48 < MrHairgrease> it would make a pretty cool asset though
17:49 < danny_mk> definitely would
17:50 < danny_mk> Would need a team of developers just for that one I think :-)
17:52 < MrHairgrease> or a lot of time
17:52 < MrHairgrease> =)
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17:55 < nuba> danny_mk: i checked a while ago and the roundcube project was pretty nice
17:55 < nuba> danny_mk: in case you're fishing for webmail recommendations :)
17:56 < danny_mk> sure, however it is hard to find software that is developed either using Perl or Java.  I am trying real hard to keep my servers PHP and other software free
17:56 < danny_mk> just a personal preference. 
17:57 < nuba> same here
17:57 < nuba> not easy tho
17:57 < danny_mk> nope, but I kind of prefer it that way :-)
17:58 < nuba> actually I usually avoid java too, if possible :)
17:58 < danny_mk> RoundCube Webmail is written in PHP
17:58 < danny_mk> darnit!
17:59 < nuba> yes, i know. I've used it for a while, did some custom stuff for a client, check the code, it's not that bad..
18:00 < danny_mk> it is not about the code.   PHP is pretty easy to understand, I just did not want another language to worry about on my apps.
18:01 < nuba> have you found any good looking, perl-based, webmail ? 
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18:01 < nuba> or at least contemporary-looking.. 
18:01 < nuba> i think openwebmail is nice but would use some interface revamp 
18:02 < danny_mk> openwebmail works great, however the interface is a little outdated for me http://openwebmail.org
18:02 < danny_mk> right
18:02 < nuba> yeah its hard to have that as the webmail offering in your portfolio
18:03 < danny_mk> LOL
18:03 < nuba> its feature-rich, but butt-ugly
18:03 < nuba> as people are now used to interfaces like gmail's - for free
18:03 < danny_mk> right
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18:06 < danny_mk> If it would be integrated into WebGUI I bet the interface would benefit from YUI and the WebGUI api 
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21:42 < harleypig> Is there any known problem with starting spectre from the apache startup.pl script?
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01:10 < harleypig> How can I make spectre use localhost instead of going all the way out to the dns server to find my local ip?
01:10 < harleypig> Right now it's trying to connect to mydomain.com instead of localhost, so ithas to resolve the ip everytime.
01:10 <@preaction> set your hostname in /etc/hosts ?
01:11 < harleypig> I'd still have to set the hosts file to the external ip address.
01:11 < harleypig> I guess it's not that big of a deal, now that I think of it.
01:12 <@preaction> no, you could set the hosts file to 127.0.0.1 
01:12 < harleypig> No I can't ... I have other programs that require a valid ip for the domain name.
01:12 < harleypig> I'm slowly getting rid of them though.
01:12 <@preaction> that isn't a valid ip?
01:13 < harleypig> Err .. a valid external ip.
01:13 <@preaction> those sounds like some damned stupid programs :(
01:13 <@preaction> spectre uses the first siteName in your webgui config, unfortunately so do a lot of other things
01:14 <@preaction> (for display purposes, like mail sent out from a CS, but i suppose that's spectre sending out that mail)
01:14 < harleypig> It just occurred to me that I should be setting the spectreSubnet variable to my external ip.
01:14 < harleypig> *blush*
01:14 < harleypig> That's why it's unable to connect.
01:14 <@preaction> probably
01:15 <@preaction> maybe even the spectreIp
01:15 < harleypig> On another note on spectre ... is there a way to pass a command line parm that says exit if already daemonized.
01:15 <@preaction> not that i know of
01:15 < harleypig> I'm starting spectre in my apache startup.pl, but I guess I'm gonna have to add code to check if its already running.
01:15 <@preaction> i don't know if spectre is process-aware of itself
01:16 < harleypig> does spectre leave a pid file lying around?
01:16 < harleypig> checking code
01:21 < harleypig> Doesn'tlook like it
01:22 <@preaction> i dont know if we'd consider that a bug, but rather an RFE (Having spectre become process-aware of itself)
01:23 < harleypig> Yeah, I'd say it was an rfe too.
01:23 <@preaction> but with that feature, we'd be able to connect to running spectre instances, which could allow for some very cool debugging
01:24 <@preaction> feel free to post it, if we can get JT behind it it might make it into 7.5 (he's always looking for ways to minimize the problems people have with spectre)
01:25 < harleypig> Ummm ... how much is acceptable?  I haven't taken a deep enough look, but I know there is at least one module on the cpan that makes this easy.
01:26 < harleypig> I mean, how much change is acceptable?
01:26 <@preaction> how much what? i'd imagine it'd be as simple as spectre.pl checking for a $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.pid and then trying to connect using $WEBGUI_ROOT/var/spectre.sock
01:27 <@preaction> as long as it doesn't break any existing API (you can extend them, but not break them), it's acceptable
01:27 < harleypig> Ok.
01:27 <@preaction> the difficulty though, will determine how long it takes before plainblack puts hours on it(unless someone in the community does it)
01:27 < harleypig> :]
01:28 <@preaction> posting patches, as long as they follow the WebGUI Best Practices (search the wiki), are usually immediately added to the next beta version (7.5.0 in this case)
01:34 < harleypig> Wait ... connections to spectre are via http correct?  If so, sock programming isn't necessary right?
01:34 <@preaction> spectre connects to webgui via http, but currently there's no way to connect to spectre at all
01:34 <@preaction> wait, webgui can communicate with spectre
01:35 <@preaction> so yes, somehow. i think it's buried in the POE::Component::IKC::Client code
01:35 <@preaction> i dunno, spectre's still a bit of a blackbox to me
01:37 < harleypig> Oh.  Why is it always more complicated than I think it is?
01:37 <@preaction> the lament of every programmer everywhere ;)
01:37 < harleypig> :]
01:38 <@preaction> it always sounds easy, but it never is...
01:38 <@preaction> the 90/10 theory: 90% of the cases take 10% of the work, the other 10% take 90%
01:39 < harleypig> heh ... right.
01:39 < harleypig> wierd ... in the spectre.pl code there is a line that is supposed to check if spectre is already running ... but I'm not seeing that error code.
01:42 < harleypig> I need to back up ...
01:43 < harleypig> I'm trying to get a source install working and I'm getting the following error:
01:43 < harleypig> Couldn't connect to WebGUI site makethebad
01:43 < harleypig> manstop.biz.conf at http://www.makethebadmanstop.biz:80/?op=spectreGetSiteData.  Response: 500 read timeout
01:43 < harleypig> Can anyone help me pinpoint this error?
01:44 <@preaction> can you view that in a web browser?
01:44 <@preaction> did you try: cd /data/WebGUI/sbin; perl spectre.pl --test ?
01:44 < harleypig> No, I get a 500 error ... the log says ...
01:44 < harleypig> I wasn't aware of that option ...
01:44 <@preaction> it just tests connectivity, what does the webgui error log say?
01:45 < harleypig> same thing
01:45 < harleypig> Can't connect to data source 'dbi:mysql;makethebadmanstop_biz;host=localh
01:45 < harleypig> ost' because I can't work out what driver to use (it doesn't seem to contain a 'dbi:driver:'
01:45 <@preaction> that'd be your problem
01:45 < harleypig> err ,,, error_LOG says this
01:45 <@preaction> it should be dbi:mysql: (not ;)
01:47 < harleypig> Oh ... wonder if that was in the default or if I fat fingered it ...
01:47 < harleypig> I fat fingered it.
01:47 < harleypig> *sigh*
01:47 <@preaction> it happens
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01:57 < harleypig> Hmmm ... now that url is returning a json stream of just {}
01:57 < harleypig> and the spectre.pl --test is failing.
01:57 <@preaction> is the site up?
01:57 <@preaction> does the webgui error log say anything? how about the apache error log?
01:57 < harleypig> Ah ... I see ... my ip isn't in the list ... but the ip spectre is coming from is, according to the error message.
01:57 < harleypig> yeah.
01:58 < harleypig> apache error log doesn't say anything
01:58 < harleypig> webgui says samething ... 500 read timeout.
01:59 <@preaction> how about above that? webgui and spectre share the same error log
01:59 <@preaction> or pastebin a tail of your webgui error log
01:59 <@preaction> perlbot paste?
01:59 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
02:00 < harleypig> I'm reading the wrong part of the log ... I cleared the screen (pressed enter a bunch of times) and ran the test again.  No error in either log, but the console says: ERROR: WebGUI cannot communicate with Spectre. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreIp or spectrePort setting the this config file
02:01 <@preaction> spectreIp in spectre.conf is the IP that spectre will try to bind to. spectreIp in the webgui.conf is the IP that webgui expects spectre to be on. both should be the same (and the IP of the box)
02:01 <@preaction> so probably your internet IP
02:02 <@preaction> and then spectreSubnets should probably include that IP as well (but i'm not sure if that's required)
02:03 < harleypig> Hmmm ... I was focusing on the makethebadmanstop.biz.conf file because that's where the variable spectreIp and spectrePort are ...
02:03 < harleypig> but I'll try changing the ip variable as well in spectre.conf
02:03 <@preaction> yeah, that's the right one
02:03 <@preaction> oh, sorry, thought you were meaning webgui.conf
02:04 < harleypig> Isn't webgui.conf the one that should be copied and modified for each site?
02:05 <@preaction> yes
02:05 <@preaction> i just said "webgui.conf" to refer to "yoursite's webgui configuration"
02:06 < harleypig> ah
02:06 < harleypig> makes sense
02:13 < harleypig> wow ... impressive starter once you get it going.
02:13 <@preaction> the new site wizard thing?
02:13 <@preaction> i've never actually tried it
02:13 < harleypig> Yeah
02:14 < harleypig> Makes it easy to get new sites going with virtual hosts ... very cool.
02:15 <@preaction> one of these days i'm going to make a call-to-arms for WebGUI Source Install package maintainers for various distros. it will help since some people seem to dislike the idea of the WRE adding an additional Perl / Mysql / Apache to their system
02:15 < harleypig> I don't ... that's why I went the source route.
02:15 < harleypig> I've already got all three, on a limited space account ... 
02:16 <@preaction> exactly, the type of people we need for "hobby users" (which in turn ask their places of employment to use WebGUI) usually know enough to run their own apache / mysql / perl
02:17 <@preaction> so if we can get a .deb package (depends on Apache2-mpm-prefork, mysql-server, image-magick, perl-5.8.8) and add some simple scripts to create / delete webgui virtual hosts, it would be easy to install webgui from source
02:18 <@preaction> the create script would add the appropriate virtualhost config to the appropriate place
02:18 <@preaction> like a2ensite does for debian
02:19 <@preaction> wg_addsite <sitename> and wg_deletesite <sitename>
02:21 < harleypig> I'm not familiar with those, but I keep my virtual hosts in separate files
02:22 <@preaction> they don't exist yet
02:22 < harleypig> So i wouldn't be comfortable automating thatpart
02:22 < harleypig> ah
02:22 <@preaction> wg_addsite would create a new virtualhost file from a skeleton, replacing the server name, according to the distribution's standard method of doing it
02:22 < harleypig> oic
02:23 <@preaction> it'd be customized for each distribution
02:23 <@preaction> or, theoretically, we could just maintain a man page that would tell the users how do to it
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02:23 < harleypig> and a default of a dumped file they could paste
02:25 <@preaction> something like an entire <VirtualHost *:80> they could customize for themselves
02:27 < harleypig> exactly
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03:31 <+crythias> ... and then I got the Wii and started moving content around with it within WebGUI and then...
03:31 <@preaction> omg 31337!
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18:00 <+crythias> http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/Lenovo_3000_N200_0769/0769AFU/N03062/extended/
18:05 <+crythias> sorry
18:05 <+crythias> wrong link
18:05 <+crythias> http://www.freakingnews.com/PacMan-Pictures--1129-0.asp
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18:52 < danny_mk> crythias, you around?
18:53 < danny_mk> how bout you nuba?
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19:41 < nuba> just passing by
19:42 < nuba> oh hes not here anymore
19:42 < nuba> nevermind
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20:56 < danny_mk> Hi everyone
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22:35 < danny_mk> hmmm... the encrypt login option does not seem to be available in 7.4.1
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23:21 <+crythias> yawn
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06:10 < wgGuest26> alive or memorex?
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06:13 < crythia2> hm
06:16 < PerlPilot> hmm hm hmmmm hmmm hm hm hm hmmm
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11:10 < Radix-europe> hey dapperedodo - working from home today? :)
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14:54 < arnaud__> hi
14:56  * arnaud__ feels alone...
14:57 < arnaud__> is there an ongoing French translation (i18n part) for the latest version ?
14:59 < xdanger_> http://i18n.webgui.org/
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15:00 < arnaud__> thanks
15:02 -!- Radix-europe [n=jesse@194.171.50.114] has joined #webgui
15:02 < arnaud__> no unicode...HTML element only ?
15:03 < arnaud__> We (french people) like to throws accent everywhere...
15:09 < arnaud__> forget my last comment... Seems like the editor take care of converting my accents to HTML entities...
15:26 < arnaud__> Should I follow the (english) text inconsistency ? Or correct it in my translation ?
15:26 < arnaud__>  "How many impressions (individual displays of the ad) has the advertiser purchased? If they purchased a number of clicks you can leave this at zero."
15:27 < arnaud__> shouldn't it be : advertiserS/they or advertiser/he ?
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16:07 < AMH_bob> Goodmorning!
16:08 < arnaud__> hi !
16:08 < arnaud__> (good afternoon here in France)
16:09 < AMH_bob> (yeah, same here in Holland :P )
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18:19 < danny_mk> anyone around?
18:27 < nuba> no
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18:37 < danny_mk> nuba, I can't figure out what style is used when visiting any page and passing ?op=auth
18:38 < danny_mk> I thouoght it was failsafe
18:47 <@Haarg> it's whatever is set for the 'User Function Style' in Settings > UI
18:51 < danny_mk> Thank you, darn that was hard to figure out :-)
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19:01 < sanyock> Hi People!
19:02 < sanyock> Unfortunately:
19:02 < sanyock> <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn>
19:02 < sanyock> </tmpl_if>
19:02 < sanyock> does not work for me :(
19:03 < sanyock> 7.3.22
19:05 <@Haarg> when did it stop working?
19:06 < sanyock> I did not use it previously and guess it should work in predefined templates, but it does not work in my template
19:06 < sanyock> Just tried to add it and does not work
19:07 < sanyock> This templates has some other macroses like ^AssetProxy("aulix/style1/navigation");
19:07 < sanyock> and tehy work fine
19:08 < sanyock> In resulting page <tmpl_if session.var.adminOn> does not exist but the text inside it does
19:08 < sanyock> I commited and cleared cache
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19:21 < sanyock> sorry, it was my mistake
19:21 < sanyock> works fine now
19:22 < wgGuest93> Hi. I'am a web designer and I'm new at CMS world. I've been reading and testing the demo of webgui; but I relly need more help (maybe starting from general concepts)
19:24  * sanyock wonders which SSO is the most popular and convenient: CSA or OpenID ?
19:25 < wgGuest93> it is possible to install Webgui in a comercial Hosting?
19:27 < sanyock> VPS
19:27 < sanyock> when u r a root
19:31 < wgGuest93> how i konw if im a root??
19:33 < sanyock> if you do not know about root then most likely you should use plainblack.com shared hosting
19:36 < wgGuest93> in this plainblack hosting, is Webgui pre-installed?
19:42 < sanyock> yes
19:47 < wgGuest93> there are several hosting plans at plainblack.com, will be enough with the "supported WebGUI hosting"?
19:47 < nuba> danny_mk: you can look at the html for any unique-looking string
19:47 < nuba> then search for it in the database
19:48 < nuba> i do that with phpmyadmin, makes searching the entire db really easy
19:52 < nuba> and to search the code i usually do "find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ -type f | xargs grep 'string' "
19:52 < nuba> sometimes passing additional switches to grep
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19:59 < danny_mk> talking about SSO, is someone working on a Auth module for OpenID or CSA?
19:59 < danny_mk> I would be interested in using such a module.
20:01 < danny_mk> OK nuba, I thought about that but the answer was easier than I expected.  
20:04 < nuba> danny_mk: you'll have to send karma this way: http://www.plainblack.com/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid
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20:54 < danny_mk> if it does not get done soon I will have to take on the project myself.  It would be good to have this module.  
20:56 < danny_mk> I am still waiting to be passed the baton for the chat Wobject
21:18 <+crythias> oooh... chat.
21:26 <+crythias> seems everyone is doing a php chat thing
21:33 < danny_mk> no, not a php chat one
21:33 < danny_mk> a Perl one for Webgui
21:47 < xdanger_> nuba: just a quick note... why do you use find? why not just grep -R 'string' /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/* ?-)
21:50 < nuba> habits
21:51 < nuba> im used to do lots of things with find|xargs
21:52 < nuba> doing*
21:54 < nuba> plus you have things like mtime, size, etc with find
21:54 < nuba> pruning
21:56 < nuba> find rocks
21:56 < nuba> love it
21:56 < nuba> :)
21:56 < xdanger_> =P
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21:59 < nuba> dumb recursing can be a real pita
22:00 < xdanger_> I've never "really REALLY" mastered the *nix shell =)
22:01 < nuba> well one is always learning :)
22:01 < nuba> its hard to say one has really REALLY mastered anything..
22:03 < xdanger_> I have a friend who (in my opinion) has mastered it... and many other things...
22:05 < xdanger_> he has this incredible memory... he remembers every code that he has ever writen, and even all random generated passwords after just one read...
22:06 < nuba> well, that happens sometimes i guess
22:06 < nuba> now random generated passwords, after one read, thats crazyness :)
22:06 < nuba> is he like "rain man" or anything ?
22:07 < xdanger_> A little maybe...
22:07 < nuba> heh
22:07 < xdanger_> not in the "socialy stupid" but a little akward
22:08 < xdanger_> He's now a very creative person... He always says that he's a little autistic
22:09 < nuba> well they say no one is reeaaaly normal if you look close enough..
22:12 < xdanger_> true
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16:17 < AMH_bob> Hey, good morning!
16:20 < SDuensin> Howdy
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16:33 < danny_mk> preaction, are you around?  Do you have the code cleaned up for the chat Wobject?
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17:34 < synq> ielliew
17:35 < wgGuest96> hai
17:39 < synq> hai wgGuest Bart
17:40 < Radix-europe> Hey Koen :)
17:40 < synq> hai Jesse
17:40 < synq> Radix?
17:40 < Radix-europe> Yah
17:40 < synq> shouldn't that be 'Radex' ?
17:41 < Radix-europe> heh
17:41 < Radix-europe> nope, I had the nick Radix before I went to your office ;)
17:41 < synq> hehe
17:41 -!- synq is now known as SynQ
17:41 < Radix-europe> My friends saw the photo I took of the outside of the office and said you spelt my name wrong on the welcome board ;)
17:42 < wgGuest96> :)
17:42 < Radix-europe> http://www.flickr.com/photos/radix999/982431612/
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17:43 < SynQ> hehe
17:44 < Radix-europe> I decided to go see a few museums today - went to Museum Prinsenhof, Van Meerten and the Army Museum
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17:49 < SynQ> nice
17:49 < SynQ> how was the army museum?
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17:50 < Radix-europe> Pretty cool actually.. lots and lots of weapons, suits of armor, uniforms, swords, pistols, rifles, guns, tanks, rocket launchers, and everything else you find in war
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17:50 < SynQ> shot off limbs?
17:51 < Radix-europe> http://www.flickr.com/photos/radix999/tags/army/
17:52 < Radix-europe> the only museum I went to today where you could take photos.. and I took plenty :)
17:54 < SynQ> old shit
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18:44 < nuba> find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI -type f -name "*pm" | xargs grep "' '" | wc -l
18:44 < nuba>       72
18:45 < nuba> find /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI -type f -name "*pm" | xargs grep '" "'  | wc -l
18:45 < nuba>       73
18:45 < nuba> lots of single spaces being quoted here and there
18:46 < nuba> will this get replaced by q{ } etc as suggested by the perl best practices ?
18:47 < nuba> and are we adopting perltidy too?
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20:36 < WebGUI> hi
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20:47 < WebGU1> hi all
20:47 < WebGU1> again
20:47 < nuba> hu synq
20:47 < nuba> hi*
20:47 < WebGU1> hi
20:47 < WebGU1> how is business in brazil?
20:48 < nuba> doing fine, thanks :)
20:48 < WebGU1> are you happy?
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20:49 < nuba> sure
20:49 < WebGU1> hi doug
20:49 < WebGU1> JT around jet?
20:49 < WebGU1> what time is it there?
20:58 <@preaction> it's about 1:00p, JT's out due to some medical issues
20:59 < WebGU1> oeh
20:59 < WebGU1> he is pregnant?
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21:07 < nuba> huh
21:09 < WebGU1> huh
21:17 < nuba> there are rumors he's gestating a new wre :)
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22:00 < rjacobsen> i have updated webgui in the past and have had to change multiple stuff across the 20+ sites we are running webgui..... i would like to know what is the latest stable version of webgui is i can upgrade webgui to that has the least amount of bugs please
22:02 < nuba> rjacobsen: latest stable was 7.3.22
22:03 < rjacobsen> ty very much sir
22:03 < rjacobsen> ..... or mam
22:03 < rjacobsen> whichever :)
22:04 < nuba> "sir" would do :)
22:04 < nuba> good luck
22:10 -!- preaction_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.1-beta 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc .:. Feel free to ask questions on here - but make sure you stick around long enough for us to answer! :)
22:14 < rjacobsen> will i have to change the permissions on all the sites after i update? (that would be hell)
22:15 <@preaction_> which permissions?
22:15 <@preaction_> which versions?
22:15 < rjacobsen> the set permissions for people who can edit things on the sites
22:15 <@preaction_> 6.99.0-latest is generally a smooth ride
22:15 <@preaction_> of course not
22:15 < rjacobsen> like , you know, forums and events calendars and such
22:16 <@preaction_> if you're upgrading through 7.3.0, the events calendars are going to get replaced with Calendars
22:16 <@preaction_> read the gotchas
22:56 < danny_mk> preaction:  do you have the code for the chat Wobject?
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23:04 <@preaction_> danny_mk, i could've swore i sent it to you, but i'll send it again
23:06 < danny_mk> no problem, do you have my email?
23:06 -!- preaction_ is now known as preaction
23:06 <@preaction> the one at yahoo?
23:06 < danny_mk> you could also send it to my message box at plainblack
23:06 < danny_mk> yes
23:21 <@preaction> it's sent
23:24 < danny_mk> cool, I will take a look at it tonight.  I am just putting the finishing touches on this macro:  http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/macros/yuidatechooser#MglP0tYpUb5G7-zsTI-GAQ
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23:38 < nuba> danny_mk: nice
23:40 < danny_mk> I am affraid that YUI or YUI-EXT does not provide date validation
23:41 < danny_mk> however I have a script that adds methods to the Date object which works great.  Validation is working well.  I am testing it right now.
23:41 < danny_mk> The only problem is that the user will have to add one extra files in either uploads or extras to include the date validation library.
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23:42 < danny_mk> Do you guys see that as a problem?
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23:42 < nuba> not for me. im just packing a macro to contribute too, and it has stuff under extras too
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23:43 < danny_mk> OK, it is done.  With validation.  Do you have time to test it?
23:43 < nuba> in a few..
23:43 < danny_mk> Will let you know once I upload it.
23:43 < nuba> let me know when you've uploaded it
23:43 < nuba> ok
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00:07 < danny_mk> OK nuba, I have updated the files.
00:24 < nuba> danny_mk: i gotta split, bbiaw
00:24 < nuba> then i'll look at your contribution
00:25 < nuba> i have just posted a new macro too, CreativeCommons, check it out!
00:25 < danny_mk> Cool, I will.
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03:54 < nuba> tagclods will consider "this thing" as two separated tags, is that the intended behaviour?
03:54 < nuba> one tag being "this
03:54 < nuba> the other being thing"
04:01 < nuba> perlbot, paste
04:01 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
04:03 < nuba> pasted a nice string2list at http://erxz.com/pb/3945
04:04 < nuba> found at String::Escape
04:05 < nuba> oops, i meant tagclouds
04:09 < nuba> posted as a bug
04:59 < nuba> preload.custom <- kickass feature!
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05:34 < sanyock> Hi All
05:38 < sanyock> Please let me know, why there is no SSL port definition in the config? General port is there: "webServerPort" : 80
05:38 < sanyock> I need use port different than 443
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07:03 <@preaction> sanyock, which config?
08:25 < sanyock> preaction, I have a problem my ISP uses some cache software so that ports 80 and 443 work very bad for httpd
08:26 < sanyock> so I have to change to 81 for http and say 444 for ssl
08:27 < sanyock> unfortunately I cannot find where to configure this and it seems too dificult for me to change the source code of L_loginBox.t  or related
08:28 < sanyock> additional problem I have found that if visitor enters via SSL and then logges in, he is redirected to http (instead of keeping https)
08:29 <@preaction> for that last bit you have to turn on Encrypt Logins (in the user tab of settings)
08:29 < sanyock> it seems WebGUI does not keep previous state of the protocol and just returns to http after secure login
08:29 < sanyock> I have had it
08:30 < sanyock> the problem is that WebGUI changes back to not SSL instead of keeping SSL
08:31 < sanyock> Actually I am thinking about turning off secure login, may then it will not try to switch back to http after login
08:31 < sanyock> if user originally enter via ssl
08:32 <@preaction> you may want to search the wiki or make a post on the forums about that, i don't think what you're describing should be happening
08:32 < sanyock> It does, I tried to search forums on this topic
08:33 <@preaction> yes, but since i can't help you (it's way too late and i need to sleep instead of pinning down this behavior), posting to the forums may be of more use to you
08:49 < sanyock> ok, good night
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10:33 < SynQ> morning :)
10:33 < AMH_bob> Good morning!
10:42 < Radix-europe> mornin
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04:16 <+crythia1> hrm.
04:21 <@rizenisaway> hrrm.
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16:07 < AMH_bob> Howdy!
16:07 <+MrHairgrease> hi
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16:19 <+crythia1> an answer... in search of a question.
16:19 <+crythia1> found online: "Last week I attempted to use Occam's razor to settle an argument, but I ended up with an unsightly rash.   
16:19 <+crythia1> Should I have instead used Occam's Easy-off Wax Strips or Occam's QuickRemover Gel with new fresh lilac scent? Has anyone tried these yet?"
16:19 <+crythia1> http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?s=0f3121222d855a01ed7cbea63aee62b1&p=277807&postcount=1325
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16:41 < danny_mk> Preaction, you around?
16:41 < danny_mk> I still have not gotten that email on the Wobject
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16:50 <@rizen> danny_mk, what sized attachment can your email support?
16:52 < danny_mk> I have yahoo and it seems that I have gotten pretty big files without a problem.  I am not sure what yahoo limitations are, let me check!
16:52 <@rizen> i know he's sent the email twice now
16:53 < danny_mk> Hmmm... what is his email address.
16:53 <@rizen> doug@plainblack.com
16:54 < danny_mk> Maybe he just does not have my correct email address
16:54 < danny_mk> it is danny_mk@yahoo.com
16:57 <@rizen> i've asked him to upload it somewhere and send you a url
16:57 <@rizen> mind you he's not yet awake
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17:00 < danny_mk> it is OK, I just want to make sure someone works on it.  I was looking at working on an OpenId Auth module
17:00 < danny_mk> but I understand that is a RFE
17:00 < danny_mk> I rather tackle the chat Wobject for now
17:01 < danny_mk> but if not I will work on the OpenId module
17:01 <@rizen> whereever you want to contribute you are welcome to do so
17:01 < danny_mk> I need the chat Wobject
17:01 <@rizen> we're certainly not trying to hold back the chat asset from you
17:01 <@rizen> just technical difficulties
17:01 < danny_mk> no problem, just want to make sure I don't duplicate work
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> are you working on a chat wobject?
17:01 < danny_mk> was...
17:02 <@rizen> we've already written one
17:02 <@rizen> and danny_mk has offered to enhance it
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> cool
17:02 < danny_mk> until I found out that other people had one written
17:02 <@rizen> so that it can go into the core
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> is it like the perlmonks chatter box?
17:02 <+MrHairgrease> or can it actually connect to, say, msn
17:03 < danny_mk> I have not seen the perlmonks one
17:03 <@rizen> this isn't based upon any protocols
17:03 <@rizen> it just uses standard http to allow realtimechat
17:03 <@rizen> with thousands of users
17:03 <@rizen> simultaneous
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> so it's wg specific?
17:04 <@rizen> yes
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> I'll check it out when it's released
17:05 <+MrHairgrease> sounds pretty cool
17:05 <@rizen> we've been using it in production for a couple of months now
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> If you want me to test it...
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> I can try it out on the kornbeurs memebers site
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> mebers*
17:06 <@rizen> it works quite well for our needs, but danny_mk is going to introduce an ajax interface for smaller numbers of users, but with a fancier interface
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> members*
17:07 <@rizen> kornbeurs?
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> www.koornbeurs.nl
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> my 'student' club
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> or what you call it
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> you've been there once
17:08 <+MrHairgrease> I manage the members only area of it
17:09 <@rizen> cool
17:10 <+MrHairgrease> The main site still runs on some really old homebrew php/html thingy my predecessor wrote
17:11 <+MrHairgrease> but I haven't had time to convert it to webgui 
17:11 <@rizen> and you call yourself contributor of the year
17:11 < Radix-europe> hehe
17:11 <+MrHairgrease> no
17:11 <+MrHairgrease> you did
17:12 <+MrHairgrease> I just wlaked away with the prize
17:12 < Radix-europe> MrHairgrease has been enjoying the drinking side of koornbeurs a bit too much and can't type.
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> if radix_europe doesn't watch out he'll be the one having a difficulty in typing
17:13 < Radix-europe> hehe
17:13 <+MrHairgrease> actually he's sitting right next to me
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> so the only thing holding me back right now from engaging in physical violence is compassion
17:14 <@rizen> so how is your webgui sabbatical going radix?
17:14 <+MrHairgrease> and of course the risk of retalliation
17:14 < Radix-europe> I've been enjoying the beer
17:15 < Radix-europe> Almost done here tho.. gf arrives tomorrow and off on my tour of europe this weekend
17:16 <@rizen> did you learn anything from MrHairgrease?
17:17 < Radix-europe> Yeah, he's given me some tips on how to read/write sql using the webgui api - been working on a basic sync workflow that synchronises webgui with our own database
17:19 < Radix-europe> I've also been introduced to many different belgian and german beers while I've been here too - definitely a highlight :)
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> radix_europe has almost become Dutch =)
17:20 < Radix-europe> lol
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> lol
17:20 <+MrHairgrease>  |
17:20 <+MrHairgrease> / \
17:21 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.2-beta / 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc
17:23 <+crythia1>           /(Help, I'm drowning!)
17:23 <+crythia1> ~~~|o|~~
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> haha
17:24 <+MrHairgrease> crythia1 wears no trunks
17:25 <@rizen> so guys, quick opinion poll
17:25 < Radix-europe> I don't like you
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> option b
17:25 <@rizen> who do you think deserves to be in the running for contributor of the year this year?
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> was that quick or what
17:25 <+MrHairgrease> option b
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> i thin colin
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> think*
17:26 <@rizen> i think kathy for putting up with colin
17:26 <@rizen> =)
17:26 < Radix-europe> heh
17:26 <+MrHairgrease> heh
17:26 < Radix-europe> Colin gets my vote too
17:26 <+crythia1> I've contributed by.. um.. not being so much of a jerk :)
17:26 <@rizen> you're not a jerk
17:27 <+crythia1> or annoyance.. 
17:27 <+crythia1> hee
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> iphoneguy
17:27 <@rizen> i'm a jerk
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> he created a more...
17:27 <@rizen> who's been the most active helping people on the boards and updating wiki's and such?
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> tight community
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> everybody hated him
17:27 <+MrHairgrease> so he was good for the group feeling
17:27 <@rizen> you're right, i think he should get the vote
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> dunno
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> i don't read the boards that often
17:28 <@rizen> me either
17:28 <@rizen> i guess i'll have to run a report
17:29 <+crythia1> Actually, I haven't contributed hardly at all. but then, the questions... I can't answer anymore.
17:29 <@rizen> why can't you answer them anymore cry?
17:30 <+crythia1> Well, they aren't so many newbie q's anymore, ... actually, not so many q's at all, really.
17:30 <+crythia1> one or two people having issues, but upgraders ... not so much.
17:31 < Radix-europe> I think the Wiki has helped with a lot of them
17:31 <+crythia1> agree.
17:31 <@rizen> well that's good then
17:31 <@rizen> so maybe wiki should be contributor of the year
17:31 <@rizen> =)
17:32 <+crythia1> I keep updating one entry in my faq...
17:32 <@rizen> which is?
17:32 <+crythia1> I had a recent contributor. 
17:32 <+crythia1> the entry: What is the latest version of WebGUI.
17:32 <@rizen> hehe
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> heh
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> maybe a wild idea
17:32 <+MrHairgrease> but
17:33 <+crythia1> But the point is, I keep links to both stable and beta.
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> wouldn't it be a good idea to put your faq in the wiki?
17:33 <+crythia1> it's too old
17:33 <+crythia1> I mean, probably 10% is applicable any more.
17:33 <+MrHairgrease> then put 10% in the wiki
17:33 < Radix-europe> crythia1: if there is anything in you faq that is still applicable, it should be added to the wiki
17:33 <+crythia1> almost all of it was 6.2
17:34 < Radix-europe> So why do you bother updating it then?
17:34 < Radix-europe> just redirect everyone to the wiki instead :)
17:34 <+crythia1> http://www.gwy2.org/fomfiles/cache/52.html
17:35 <+crythia1> probably should redirect to the wiki
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18:19 < elnino> good morning. Quick question.
18:20 < elnino> I upgraded to 7.3.22 and nobody is getting any notifications anymore. Is there a pareticular group they need to be a part of?
18:21 < elnino> approval notification - type notifications. Not subscriptions.
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18:29 <@rizen> did you restart spectre after the upgrade?
18:29 <@rizen> cuz you need to do that
18:31 < elnino> yep , but I can do it again, anything else to look at?
18:33 <@rizen> run the spectre tests to make sure it's still able to connect
18:33 <@rizen> and look in the mailQueue table to see if anything is waiting to be sent
18:33 <@rizen> other than that, you'll need to contact plainblack support
18:35 < elnino> ok. thanks. I'll logoff here and restart spectre. bye
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19:08 < elnino> good morning. I'm still having problems with the approval notifications. I did some digging around.
19:08 < elnino> I restarted spectre without errors.
19:08 < elnino> I looked at running workflows and there are 11 listed
19:08 < elnino> all of which are 'error". If I click on run, the response is "waiting"
19:09 < elnino> If I do a spectre --debug. the message I get for all the waiting work flows is that it's "Was told to wait on EEIuxl-nLhtwJS7hcfAw0g because we're still waiting on some external event."
19:09 < elnino> I did a select * on mailQueue and there iisn't anything in the table.
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19:10 < elnino> If I do a spectre --status, the workflows are listed as "waiting".
19:11 < elnino> So what is it waiting for? - they are all pending approvals. So are they waiting for the CM to approve them?
19:11 < elnino> under my webgui settigns, the default version tag workflow is "commit with approveal.  
19:12 < elnino> To recap, I'm not receiving any notifications related to the approval system.
19:15 < elnino> i'm running 7.3.22, and it was workgin before the upgrade from 7.2.1
19:25 < elnino> I couldnt find a specific log for spectre. is it the same as webguis?
19:29 <@Haarg> yes
19:32 < elnino> Hi!  is there a way to find out what external event my pending workflows are waiting on?
19:34 <@Haarg> what kind of workflows are they?
19:34 < elnino> approval ones
19:36 <@Haarg> so they are probably waiting on approval right?
19:36 <@Haarg> there should be messages about that in the inbox
19:37 < elnino> yep there are. so that's what they are waiting for?  So i guess that is a separate issue thatI'm trying to solve.
19:38 < elnino> I never recived emails telling me that there were approval to make.and there is nothing in the queue.
19:40 < elnino> Im trying to figure out why emails were never sent.
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19:41 < elnino> emails to th users, as opposed to webguis inbox system
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--- Day changed Fri Aug 10 2007
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05:22 < sstanvir> hello
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05:38 < diakopter> rizen: you around?
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05:40 <@rizen> sure
05:42 < SDuensin> Evening, rizen 
05:42 <@rizen> howdy
05:43 < SDuensin> Hmm.  Spector is ignoring me.  How rude!
05:44 <@rizen> spectre is mean that way sometimes
05:45 < diakopter> rizen: gj getting Config::JSON to pass all-green on cpantesters
05:45 <@rizen> thanks
05:45 <@rizen> apparently i'll be putting out a new release of it soon
05:45 < SDuensin> I don't see any errors anywhere, the spector.pl --test passes, but my version tag sits in "pending".  :-(
05:46 <@rizen> Haarg has said he wants to update my tests so they aren't required prereqs
05:46 < diakopter> yeah
05:47 <@rizen> do you actually use config::json in something?
05:47 < diakopter> yeah, WebGUI :P
05:48 < diakopter> but...
05:48 < diakopter> sec
05:49 < diakopter> root@debian:/data/WebGUI/sbin [357] # which_pm Config::JSON
05:49 < diakopter> Config::JSON         '1.0.3'    /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm
05:49 < diakopter> the version number is not supposed to have quotes.
05:50 < diakopter> root@debian:/data/WebGUI/sbin [359] # cpan Config::JSON     <snip />
05:50 < diakopter> I see you fixed that in 1.1.0
05:51 < diakopter> so..... never mind
05:51 < SDuensin> This could be bad:  ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for new.blindsunlimitedonline.com.conf
05:53 <@rizen> technically webgui doesn't use config json yet
05:53 <@rizen> it won't until 7.4.3
05:53 < diakopter> oh
05:53 <@rizen> cuz of some bugs in config json i couldn't do the conversion
05:54 < diakopter> well, I should've gone with my instinctive first answer then, to your question: testEnvironment.pl
05:54 < SDuensin> I'm guessing I have a permissions issue somewhere?
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05:56 <@rizen> probably not
05:56 <@rizen> more likely you have a corruption issue somewhere
05:56 < SDuensin> It only gives me that error on a couple sites.
05:56 < SDuensin> Database, I assume?
05:56 <@rizen> do a curl http://www.example.com/?op=getSpectreConfig
05:56 <@rizen> i think that's the url
05:56 <@rizen> you may have to look up the name of the operation function
05:57 <@rizen> see what data you get back
05:57 <@rizen> or what error
05:57 < SDuensin> It gave me the home page.
05:58 <@rizen> that's bad
05:58 <@rizen> look in your log
05:58 <@rizen> there will be an error
05:58 < SDuensin>  attempted to execute an invalid operation: getSpectreConfig
05:59 <@rizen> like i said look up the name of the function
05:59 <@rizen> in Spectre.pm
05:59 < SDuensin>  Root cause: Can't call method "get" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Spectre.pm line 53.
05:59 < SDuensin> That's more helpful.
05:59 <@rizen> Operation/Spectre.pm
06:00 <@rizen> look in your WorkflowInstance table
06:00 <@rizen> i bet you have some corruption there
06:01 < SDuensin> So how do I fix it?
06:01 < SDuensin> Corruption disturbs me greatly.
06:02 <@rizen> delete the workflow instances that have no workflowId
06:02 <@rizen> i found this on one other site a couple of weeks ago but i couldn't figure out what causes it
06:02 <@rizen> it doesn't seem to happen on bigger sites like plainblack.com
06:02 <@rizen> only on this one small site of mine
06:04 < SDuensin> It has an instanceId and workflowId.
06:04 < SDuensin> There are a few NULL values.
06:04 <@rizen> oh, well then maybe this is something different
06:05 <@rizen> the thing i saw didn't have a workflowId
06:05 <@rizen> i guess you'll have to find out what is being called on line 53
06:05 <@rizen> and why you can't call get on it
06:06 < SDuensin> Ah!  I see a blank one.
06:06 < SDuensin> Trying to do this with the mysql command line client - output is hard to read!
06:08 < SDuensin> Excellent.  That did it.  Thanks!
06:08 < SDuensin> Somehow, you need to get your brain into the wiki.
06:08 < SDuensin> Man, a lot of my sites have this problem.
06:09 <@rizen> maybe you can track down a common thread
06:09 <@rizen> like i said i've only seen it oncce
06:09 <@rizen> and it's hard to fix it on one piece of data
06:09 < SDuensin> I'd love to.
06:09 < SDuensin> I know how that is.  Worst kind of bugs to find.
06:14 < vayde> rizen, we still on for a brew on Sunday?
06:15 <@rizen> sure
06:15 <@rizen> just give me a call
06:15 <@rizen> you have my new cell number?
06:15 <@rizen> i think i emailed it to you
06:15 < vayde> yep
06:15 < vayde> I'll call you when I'm done teaching
06:16 < vayde> I'll also get to show off my new ride...  BMW R1100RT
06:19 < SDuensin> Thanks again, rizen 
06:19 <@rizen> np
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11:36 < l-e-o-n> hi from where i can change the domain of a website ? for example it was on example.com and i want it to temporary.example.com ?
11:45 < l-e-o-n> no one ?
12:09 < l-e-o-n> when trying to restart webgui i'm getting this: MySQL manager or server PID file could not be found!       [FAILED] but then no errors to start MySQL
12:13 < sstanvir> u hv to change the apache configuration file to change the domain name
12:14 < l-e-o-n> i'm using wre...
12:15 < sstanvir> well.... there should be httpd.conf 
12:15 < sstanvir> probably at this path: /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf
12:15 < sstanvir> or somewhere else depending on ur setting
12:17 < l-e-o-n> apache in wre is located in /data/wre/prereqs/apache
12:17 < l-e-o-n> there is nothing in the httpd.conf of apache
12:17 < sstanvir> is there any conf directory ?
12:17 < l-e-o-n> no virtual hosts i mean
12:17 < sstanvir> i c
12:18 < l-e-o-n> i guess it is in /data/wre/etc/www.domain.com.modproxy
12:18 < l-e-o-n> i'm changing the domain from there but i'm getting Bad Gateway error
12:19 < sstanvir> how about the webgui configuration file ?
12:20 < sstanvir> it should be somewhere like /data/WebGUI/etc/
12:20 < sstanvir> actually i didnt use wre.. i installed from source.. so there are differences
12:21 < sstanvir> but in case of apache httpd.conf there is one line: PerlSetVar WebguiConfig www.example.com.conf 
12:21 < sstanvir> it indicates the www.example.conf at /data/WebGUI/etc/
12:22 < l-e-o-n> yeah changed that too
12:22 < l-e-o-n> still Bad Gateway
12:24 < sstanvir> did u change the "sitename" in the configuration file
12:24 < sstanvir> and there is one setting for "gateway" too
12:26 < l-e-o-n> gateway is /
12:26 < l-e-o-n> yes i changed the sitename
12:27 < sstanvir> ok
12:27 < sstanvir> how about spectre ?
12:27 < sstanvir> spectre is running normally?
12:27 < l-e-o-n> yes
12:27 < l-e-o-n> no errors
12:27 < sstanvir> hmm
12:27 < sstanvir> after the changes done did u restart apache
12:27 < sstanvir> ?
12:28 < l-e-o-n> yep
12:29 < sstanvir> ok
12:29 < sstanvir> is the modperl running
12:29 < sstanvir> check in the process
12:29 < l-e-o-n> yes
12:29 < l-e-o-n> its running
12:30 < sstanvir> there could be another thing that I can think so far
12:30 < sstanvir> modproxy cannot resolve the hostname in order to get to the modperl site
12:31 < sstanvir> you have to check DNS then
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13:10 < l-e-o-n> whats this error ? MySQL manager or server PID file could not be found! 
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14:14 < l-e-o-n> DBI connect('mysql;host=localhost;port=3306','root',...) failed: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/data/wre/prereqs/mysql/mysql.sock' (2) at ./setup
14:14 < l-e-o-n> any help ?
15:04 < l-e-o-n> no one can help me ? desperate :(
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16:32 < danny_mk> Good morning everyone.  Just as an unoficial announcement I have started developing an OpenId Auth module.
16:33 < Radix-europe> Cool
16:33 < danny_mk> I worked on it a lot yesterday and last night
16:35 < danny_mk> understanding the flow of the Auth api has been a bit challenging but I am getting there :-)
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16:42 < nuba> danny_mk: cool
16:43 < danny_mk> Yup, I decided on the Auth modules since I could not get my hands on the chat one.  I will work on that one after I get the Auth module done.
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17:07 < nuba> question re: licensing..
17:07 < nuba> i posted a patch for this but http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/tagcloud-keywords_pm
17:07 < nuba> with a string2list sub based on String::Escape's string2list
17:07 < nuba> how's that, license-wise ?
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22:39 < danny_mk> Hmmm... which is the best way to retrieve parameters submited with a GET method?  
22:39 <@preaction> WebGUI::Session::Form
22:39 < danny_mk> is it $self->session->form->process(...) or $self->session->request->param(...)
22:40 <@rizen> $session->form->process("fieldName","fieldType");
22:40 <@preaction> form->process (or form->get which is a synonym)
22:40 < danny_mk> hmmm... darn value does not show up.  I must have an error in my code
22:41 < danny_mk> You know what, I can see the value in the URL, however I log some debug info and when I view the log the values are empty
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22:47 < danny_mk> Hmmm... now I am starting to wonder if cache has something to do with this problem
22:48 <@preaction> danny_mk, are you using Apache2::Reload for your development? or are you restarting apache?
22:49 < danny_mk> restarting apache every time
22:49 <@preaction> if you want to make sure it isn't the cache, rm -rf /tmp/WebGUICache
22:49 < danny_mk> let me try that
22:52 < danny_mk> Darnit, darnit, darnit!!! this freaking value won't show up at all.  Arggghhhh....
22:53 < danny_mk> My jedi powers are not fully charged, I can feel the dark side taking over...
22:54 < danny_mk> I bet it is not even webgui, I think it has more to do with the OpenId api and the redirect
22:56 < nuba> danny_mk: you may want to use firefox's livehttpheaders extension
22:56 < nuba> if you're debugging http headers 
22:56 < nuba> redirects and such
22:58 < danny_mk> Hmmm.... I did not even think of that, there is something else I could use to monitor the trafic.
22:58 < danny_mk> Oh well, that is why you are here.  To point me in the right direction :-)
23:15 < sno> I have some questions about packages.
23:15 < sno> Anyone here with knowledge?
23:15 < sno> :)
23:15 <@preaction> perlbot ask
23:15 < perlbot> Ask forth your question to the all-knowing channel and we shall bestow upon you the answer of correctitude.
23:16 < sno> Importing a package.  Does it import to the current Asset list, or to the full path of the original?
23:17 <@preaction> depends on if the package already exists. if it doesn't exist, it will be imported as a child of the current asset, but the URLs will remain the same
23:18 < sno> So if I package a snippet, and I'm sitting on the root node, it will be placed in the root node (if new and unque)?
23:18 <@preaction> yes
23:18 <@preaction> no, if you import a package containing a snippet
23:18 <@preaction> when you create a package, the assets just stay where they are
23:20 < sno> What I think I understand you are saying is that if I create a package deep in a tree like /root/import node/myasset/myassetchild where assetchild is the package, then move it to another WebGUI server and import at /root, the package is installed at /root.
23:22 <@preaction> right
23:22 < sno> Sigh
23:22 <@preaction> later imports of the same package will be put in the same place as the existing package
23:24 < sno> MIght I suggest that there be an import_to feature added?
23:24 < danny_mk> rfe
23:24 < sno> ?
23:25 <@preaction> but then the package would potentially have to create all the assets above it in the lineage, it's impossible to know what those assets are supposed to be
23:25 < sno> But in the case of a dev server to production server, that stuff better be there already.
23:26 <@preaction> but we can't just add a feature for one case, we need to think about every single case
23:26 <@preaction> and if it's a dev-to-production move, why can't you move it yourself?
23:26 < sno> I may not have those permissions.
23:27 <@preaction> then why are you allowed to import that package?
23:27 < sno> I'm talking like I'm writing instructions for others to use.
23:27 < sno> I'm allowed to create the export.
23:28 <@preaction> so they're allowed to edit the stuff on dev, but not on production?
23:28 < sno> Essentially true, but by policy, not by access restrictions.
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23:29 < sno> I was hoping that an export on a known environment would have the ability to find it's own fully qualified destination.
23:29 <@rizen> you solve the problem by you as the administrator
23:29 <@rizen> importing the package the first time
23:29 <@rizen> that way all subsequent releases will have it
23:30 < sno> I am not the administrator.
23:30 <@rizen> and put it in the same place every time
23:30 <@rizen> "you as the administrator" doesn't mean you snpo
23:30 <@rizen> sno
23:30 <@rizen> it means whoever the hell is the admin
23:31 < sno> I understand.  I'm having to write the instructions the admin will use.
23:31 < sno> Importing four packages will require documenting all the navigation through the system the admin needs to do for each onel.
23:32 <+crythias> hm.. I have an api change/suggestion. 
23:32 <+crythias> pie in the sky, thing.
23:33 <+crythias> the extensible asset type table.
23:33 <+crythias> something like all assets of every type share one table.
23:33  * crythias ducks.
23:33 <@preaction> i've suggested as much before, but if users are allowed to edit those tables, they can choose column names that we may want in the future
23:34 < sno> Is there a way to remove a poorly installed package if it is imported into the wrong place?
23:35 <@rizen> the same way you remove any other asset
23:35 <@rizen> delete it
23:35 <@rizen> purge it
23:35 <+crythias> well, preaction, I could suggest a naming scheme for columns such that all pb columns are pb_ ...
23:35 <@rizen> crythias, you're not a programmer and as such shouldn't be suggesting implementation details
23:36 <@rizen> preaction and crythias about three years ago i put forth such an idea on the dev mailing list before i developed assets and everyone threw a hissy
23:37 <@rizen> and i also brought up the idea again on either irc or the dev mailing list whereby instead of using the normal tables to look up an asset, we make the search indexer better and use the search engine to look up an asset
23:44 < danny_mk> rizen:  Can you explain what happens when the uri contains "?op=auth&method=login"  I am reading through the code and it seems it will take me a while longer
23:44 < danny_mk> do you think you can clear that up a bit faster?
23:44 < danny_mk> I thought Auth was called and then the appropriate Auth/Module for that particular user
23:44 <@rizen> it calls lib/WebGUI/Operation/Auth.pm sub www_auth()
23:45 <@rizen> which instanciates the appropriate auth module
23:45 <@rizen> which then runs the login() method on that module
23:45 < danny_mk> is there somoething parsing the parameters before it hits the "appropriate auth module"?
23:47 <@rizen> you mean parameters other than op and method?
23:48 < danny_mk> if I add a variable to the url such as "?op=auth&method=login&test=me" then I try to get the value $self->session->form->process("test") in lib/Webgui/Auth/mymodule->login 
23:48 < danny_mk> yes
23:48 <@rizen> nope
23:48 <@rizen> you still have access to those params
23:48 <@rizen> but don't use &
23:48 <@rizen> use ;
23:48 < danny_mk> let me try that, hold on
23:48 <@rizen> i guess it should still work with &
23:48 <@rizen> but ; is the standard in webgui
23:48 <@rizen> and in HTML
23:55 < danny_mk> I am missing something here.  The url looks like: http://myhost.com/?op=auth;method=login;checkOpenId=1    In Auth/OpenId.pm->login I have $self->session->form->process("checkOpenId")
23:56 < danny_mk> I print the value to the error log with $self->session->errorHandler->warn("The value of OpenId is: $checkOpenId")
23:57 < danny_mk> sorry I forgot to put my $checkOpenId =  $self->session->form->process("checkOpenId") but I think you get the idea.  I look at the log and the value is empty
23:57 <@preaction> danny_mk, where's the username? it needs a username in order to get the right auth module. you'd need to have a user register their open ID
23:58 <@preaction> the users table has the username and the authMethod, it looks up which authMethod to use from the username. i believe that's all handled by WebGUI::Operation::Auth
23:58 < danny_mk> I put in a username that is how the value gets logged using warn
23:58 < danny_mk> It does get to the OpenId module
23:59 < danny_mk> it even sends me to the openid website
--- Day changed Sat Aug 11 2007
00:00 < danny_mk> I used liveHttpHeaders to look at the traffic and everything looks right
00:00 <@preaction> pastebin your module?
00:01 < danny_mk> where do I paste it?  here?
00:01 <@preaction> perlbot pastebin
00:01 < perlbot> (see paste)
00:01 <@preaction> perlbot paste
00:01 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
00:04 < danny_mk> http://sial.org/pbot/26792
00:04 < danny_mk> done
00:04 < danny_mk> remember, it is a test case
00:05 <@rizen> what is: my $checkedOpenId = CGI::param("checkOpenId");
00:06 < danny_mk> I have tried almost everything to get it to see the parameters, CGI was my current test.
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00:08 < dionak> hi all. i've been looking into tests today and noticed there might be a need for a test for SQLForm. I wrote a test based on the Asset test. I'm not an 'official developer' so what would be the best way to submit the test for review?
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00:12 <@rizen> drop me an email with your test
00:12 <@rizen> i'll review it
00:12 <@rizen> and if i think it's good enough i'll grant you commit access
00:12 <@rizen> jt at plainblack dot com
00:13 < dionak> ah, ok. thanks. 
00:13 <@rizen> i agree that SQL Form needs a lot of automated tests
00:13 < dionak> Cool. This should be a start but is by no means extensive. I'll work a little more on it and send it on Monday. 
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00:16 <@preaction> danny_mk, the code looks fine. nothing in the error logs or otherwise?
00:17 <@preaction> try putting checkOpenId=1 elsewhere in the URL, i've had instances where the last URL name=value pair didn't get read for whatever reason. you may also want to beware of case sensitivity
00:17 < danny_mk> only what I write to them and then I get only what I write to them and then I get 
00:17 < danny_mk> 2007/08/10 16:52:50 - WARN - develop.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Cool[]
00:18 < danny_mk> 2007/08/10 16:52:52 - WARN - develop.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Visitor (1) connecting from 127.0.0.1 attempted to login to account  with invalid information.
00:19 < danny_mk> as you can see it hits the OpenId::login function
00:20 < danny_mk> the weird thing is that everything within the form on first post works great.  It seems to be during the redirect that items in the uri are lost
00:26 <@preaction> danny_mk, here's a subroutine that can be used in a .t file that will get a request from an asset. if you modify it to also handle operations (perhaps instead of $asset it gets a subref), you can use the Perl debugger to step through your code and find out what the issue is)
00:26 <@preaction> http://pastebin.ca/652879
00:26 <@preaction> you'll have to write your own test, of course, but that'd be a good idea anyway
00:26 <@preaction> or even just a driver for the sub so you can use the debugger
00:26 < danny_mk> sounds good.  I definitely want to get this issue solved.
00:27 < danny_mk> I can see how openId would benefit some of my other projects
00:27 <@preaction> it's a great SSO solution imho
00:28 <@preaction> will your module also be an OpenID provider?
00:28 <@preaction> i suppose that would require pluggable operations, or an "OpenID Provider" asset
00:29 < danny_mk> that is always a thought but I have to get the Consumer part done first.  At this point that is more important.
00:29 <@preaction> of course
00:31 < danny_mk> by the way, case sensitivity has been an issue so many times I definitely look at that first :-)
00:33 < danny_mk> Thank you for your help.  I have to be here tomorrow again.  I really need another job where I can work on this stuff full time :-)
00:34 < danny_mk> later...
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13:07 < nuba> ;0
13:07 < nuba> oops
15:04 < SynQ> hello world
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16:47 < danny_mk> Good morning
16:47 < danny_mk> I figured out what the problem was last night with the OpenId module
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17:10 < danny_mk> Hmmmm.... I am curious about something.
17:11 < danny_mk> Would'nt it be better/faster not to make a trip to the DB if the $authMethod for the user is already set?
17:14 < SynQ> good afternoon even :)
17:15 < danny_mk> right!  sorry, I can't forget obout the international community :-)
17:24 < SynQ> hehe
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18:55 < SynQ> hey mister hairgrease
18:55 < SynQ> how goes you?
18:56 <+MrHairgrease> it goes it's gang
18:56 < danny_mk> good so far
18:56 < danny_mk> making good progress on the OpenId Auth module
18:56 < SynQ> openid?
18:57 < danny_mk> Yup.
18:57 < SynQ> what is that?
18:57 < danny_mk> http://www.openid.org/
18:59 < SynQ> 33 days old i see
19:00 < SynQ> who owns openid?
19:00 < danny_mk> No, that website may be 33 days old but the idea has been around for quite a while
19:01 < danny_mk> This site may be better:  http://openid.net/
19:01 < SynQ> ah
19:01 < SynQ> it is owned by an american foundation
19:02 < SynQ> oh it isn't
19:02 < SynQ> it is a Dutch foundation
19:03 < SynQ> hm http://openid.net/wiki/index.php/OpenID_Foundation_Europe
19:03 < SynQ> that is dutch at least
19:23 < SynQ> I'm checking out if I can install WebGUI to a KVM virtual machine, but the kvm wiki is offline :(
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19:30 < SynQ> hi JT!
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> koen
19:31 < SynQ> oh, I mean, bye JT!
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> jt just left the room
19:31 < SynQ> :)
19:31 < SynQ> I say hello and you say goodbye
19:31 <+MrHairgrease> sound like a 60s song
19:31 < SynQ> it is
19:32 <+MrHairgrease> damn hippie
19:34 < SynQ> peace man
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20:43 < ifireball> hello
20:44 < ifireball> I'm trying to create a new navigation template
20:45 < ifireball> I was wondering if there is somewhere I can see what all the <tmpl_var...>s mean
20:45 <+MrHairgrease> it is in the help
20:45 <+MrHairgrease> Admin Console > Help > Assets >Navigation
20:46 <+MrHairgrease> in the menu on the right choose Navigation template
20:46 <+MrHairgrease> something like that
20:46 <+MrHairgrease> it'll list all allowed tmpl_vars
20:46 <+MrHairgrease> and what they're good for
20:48 < ifireball> cool. thanks!
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22:07 < danny_mk> quick question if any of the developers are around.
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22:13 < danny_mk> Can I trigger an WebGUI::Operation::Auth::www_auth from a macro for a succesful login?
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12:04 < SynQ> hi
12:04 < SynQ> could I have the mediawiki alike <pre></pre> style in the webgui.org user wiki for quoting system commands
12:04 < SynQ> please
12:04 < SynQ> numbered lists just don't seem as clear to me
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17:55 < danny_mk> Any of the developers around?
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19:34 < YossiN> hi all. I tried the demo but didn't find how to create a menu. can any1 guide me where is it hiding?
19:36 < YossiN> hello?
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19:43 < YossiN>  hi all. I tried the demo but didn't find how to create a menu. can any1 guide me where is it hiding?
19:43 <+MrHairgrease> You should use the Navigation asset
19:44 <+MrHairgrease> it's in the Content part of the admin menu
19:44 < YossiN> navigation asset... thanks, will look into it
19:44 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:44 <+MrHairgrease> good luck
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--- Day changed Mon Aug 13 2007
00:18 < danny_mk> If anyone is around.  Do you know how to set a param in $self->session->form->param
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15:46 < AMH_bob> Greeting to all!
15:47 < SDuensin> Ugh.
15:47 < SDuensin> Whee.
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16:17 < wgGuest73> Hi folks.  I have a problem with a mail form that works for a while and then stops sending email.  You can see in the data list that new entries has been done, but no email was sent...  how do I debug that?
16:18 <@preaction> did you check the mailQueue table?
16:18 <@preaction> is spectre running?
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16:20 < wgGuest79> yes, spectre is running, and the mailq is empty... 
16:21 < wgGuest79> can I connect to this irc with an irc-program instead of java?
16:21 <@preaction> yes, it's just freenode
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16:22 < fiddur> Ah thanks...   
16:22 < fiddur> so, does spectre have any log of its own?
16:22 <@preaction> no, it shares the webgui.log 
16:23 <@preaction> did you check the server's mail log?
16:23  * SDuensin is having mail related problems, too.
16:24 < SDuensin> Nothing in my logs.  :-/
16:24 < fiddur> preaction: The mail log shows nothing more than start and end of queue runs  (exim4)
16:24 < fiddur> could increase log level perhaps...
16:25 <@preaction> perhaps to just see that it makes it to exim
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16:28 < fiddur> it doesn't seem to get to exim, no... 
16:29 < fiddur> I see the post in the domains access_log... 
16:31 <@preaction> disable the Send Queued Mail Messages scheduled task
16:31 < fiddur> hmm, I see, for another domain, a spectre-error of some sort:  2007/08/13 15:29:42 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - WORKFLOW: Something bad happened on the return of 3bmsdCHHv376WPouPnvu1Q.
16:31 <@preaction> and then post again and see if it makes it to the mailQueue
16:33 < fiddur> Where do I disable Send Queued Mail Messages?  Note, I'm not the one who set up this server, I'm standing in for a guy on vacation... 
16:36 < fiddur> ah, I found it...
16:37 < fiddur> the disable-setting, that is
16:39 < fiddur> No, it still doesn't maike it to the mail queue.  Could the error from the other domain disturb spectres running on this domain I'm working on?
16:44 <@preaction> you could try stopping spectre entirely and then seeing if it goes into the mailQueue
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17:07 < fiddur> preaction: No, still nothing in the queue...   
17:07 < fiddur> I got some other problem it seems...  in the log, it complains about not being able to delete an undefined value:  WebGUI::Operation::Workflow::www_runWorkflow. Root caus
17:07 < fiddur> e: Can't call method "delete" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm line 272.
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17:41 < fiddur> It seems adding a sanity-check on File.pm line 272 made mails get to the queue; i.e. adding    if( WebGUI::Storage->get($self->session,$storageId) )
17:42 < fiddur> But that probably means my db is corrupt in some way :/
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21:49 < danny_mk> Hmmm... I think I just got the WebGUI::Auth::OpenId module working right!
21:51 <@rizen> sweet
21:52 < danny_mk> Darnit, I really think I got it.  It works pretty good :-)
21:53 < danny_mk> Let me work on the Internationalization part and I will upload a copy in a couple minutes
22:14 <+MrHairgrease> hey danny_mk
22:14 <+MrHairgrease> i was wondering
22:15 <+MrHairgrease> why did you use lwpx::paranoidUserAgent
22:15 <+MrHairgrease> or whatever it's called
22:15 <+MrHairgrease> good job btw
22:28 < danny_mk> because that is what was available in the example and I just wanted to get it done fast.
22:28 < danny_mk> I will look into that stuff later.
22:28 <+MrHairgrease> ok
22:28 <+MrHairgrease> just read a bit about it
22:28 < danny_mk> btw.  I would like to include a provider bann list under the admin tools
22:28 <+MrHairgrease> http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=602005
22:29 <+MrHairgrease> ah
22:29 <+MrHairgrease> you can do that
22:29 <+MrHairgrease> use the settingForm method
22:29 < danny_mk> sure, I have to get this working perfectly first
22:29 <+MrHairgrease> something like that
22:33 < danny_mk> If you would like to see the one that is working perfectly without i18n then check it out here:  http://sial.org/pbot/26840
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23:43 < danny_mk> I did not notice a versioning document on the PlainBlack website.  Did I miss it?
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23:48 <@rizen> a versioning document?
23:49 <@rizen> you mean how to access subversion?
23:49 < danny_mk> no, I mean I want to put a version number on the OpenId module
23:49 < danny_mk> I started with version 0.0.0.1
23:50 <@rizen> oh
23:50 <@rizen> goal / feature/ fix
23:50 < danny_mk> 3 numbers?
23:50 <@rizen> goal = when the api changes
23:50 <@rizen> yeah
23:50 <@rizen> feature - added to the API but didn't change it
23:50 <@rizen> in a way that would break it
23:50 <@rizen> fix - no new features, just bug fixes
23:51 <@rizen> a.b.c
23:51 < danny_mk> ok, I guess this version should now be 1.0.1
23:51 <@rizen> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/version-numbers
23:51 < danny_mk> OK
23:52 < danny_mk> How do you guys want to see the list of banned providers implemented?  Single table, etc...
23:52 <@rizen> what is a banned provider?
23:53 < danny_mk> in case you do not want to accept accounts from myopenid.com, myhackedwebsite.com, etc...
23:53 <+MrHairgrease> although i don't know much about openid
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> if it's just a list of banned providers
23:54 <@rizen> is it just a list of URLs?
23:54 <@rizen> or is there more to it?
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> i'd put em in a table called AuthOpenIdBannedProviders
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> just one column
23:54 <@rizen> i wouldn't even go that far if it's a list of urls
23:54 <@rizen> i'd just create a new field in settings
23:54 <@rizen> make it a text box
23:54 <+MrHairgrease> the suggested formelement would be a textarea
23:54 < danny_mk> like a filter on a router.  Do not accept connections from x.x.x.x
23:54 <@rizen> and tell the user to put one per line
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> oh yeah
23:55 < danny_mk> the user would not manage these
23:55 < danny_mk> only administrators will have access to this stuff
23:55 <@rizen> the user in this case being admin
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> i forgot the authsetting were stored in the settings table
23:55 <@rizen> cuz only admin can get to the settings screen
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> use that
23:55 <+MrHairgrease> rizen is right
23:56 <+MrHairgrease> ah man it hurts to say that
23:57 < danny_mk> ok.
--- Day changed Tue Aug 14 2007
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05:43 < danny_mk> why does the Settings module delete commas from a textbox?
05:45 < danny_mk> never mind, it was me :-(
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06:23 < danny_mk> OK, I think I have one bug left to work on and it should be completely done.  It has to do with the International Module so I should be able to get it done tomorrow.
06:23 < danny_mk> I will upload a working copy that defaults to the English language.
06:24 < danny_mk> At this point it is fully functional and you can test it on NON-Production websites.
06:24 < danny_mk> Good night.
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07:38 < fiddur|jobb> morns
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09:00 < fiddur> Hello.   I get a warning in the log that "You've disabled cache in your config file...", but in the domains conf it says   "disableCache" : "0"
09:02 < fiddur> Is it referring to some other (global) config file, even though it states the domain name in the log-row?
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16:14 <@rizen> fiddur, did you restart modperl after changing the config file to read disableCache : 0
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16:38 < xootom> Just a quick question about packages: from experience it seems that restoring a package (say from templates on webgui.org) it is restored with its original asset IDs. I want to use a package to define a default "sub-site" set of pages (about, forums, contact, faq) that I can keep importing for each new user, will they import with different IDs?
16:39 <@rizen> importing a package is different than deploying a package
16:40 <@rizen> when you import a package from a file it maintains the asset id's that it used when it got exported from the site
16:40 < xootom> Ahh that's great thanks
16:40 <@rizen> but deploying the package creates a copy of all the assets
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16:49 < danny_mk> is the person that refered me to this http://pastebin.ca/652879 code in here?
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17:17 < danny_mk> OK, I tested the OpenId auth module on a coupule of my systems and it seems that the Internationalization problem is bigger than I expected.
17:18 <@rizen> what exactly is the problem?
17:18 < SDuensin> OpenId?  Ooo!
17:19 < danny_mk> becasue of the fact that OpenId implementations go back and forth between the Provider website and the WebGUI website, WebGUI looses track of who $session->user is
17:20 < danny_mk> When the International module looks for $session->user it fails because it complains that it can not call methods on "user" invalid reference or something like that
17:20 < danny_mk> I will get the right error in a few min.
17:20 <@rizen> methinks  you have a typo
17:21 < danny_mk> I even pass the English language to the International module as a work around and it still fails
17:21 < danny_mk> ok, I will buy that.
17:21 <@rizen> specifically that you're not passing the session object into the i18n constructor
17:21 <@rizen> somewhere
17:21 < danny_mk> ok, let me paste code on pastebot
17:21 <@rizen> post your code to a pastebin somewhere and i'll take a look
17:21 <@rizen> yeah
17:22 < danny_mk> http://sial.org/pbot/26852
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17:25 < danny_mk> disregard the comments, they are left over from my tests.
17:25 <@rizen> sorry, this doesn't help
17:25 <@rizen> need the whole file
17:25 < danny_mk> ok
17:25 <@rizen> and why are you calling new backwards
17:25 <@rizen>    my $i18n = new WebGUI::International($self->session, 'AuthOpenId', 'English');
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17:27 < danny_mk> http://sial.org/pbot/26853
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17:28 < danny_mk> either or way works the same, I am used to the C# and Java way so it feels familiar
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17:31 <@rizen> it's against WG best practices though
17:31 < danny_mk> No problem, I can change that.
17:31 <@rizen> not that big of a deal, was just pointing it out so you knew
17:31 <@rizen> what is the exact error message you're seeing?
17:32 < danny_mk> hold on
17:33 < danny_mk> Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::User::www_editUser. Root cause: Can't call method "user" on an undefined value at /opt/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/International.pm line 264.
17:34 < danny_mk> If I don't use the International module everything works great :-(
17:38 < danny_mk> Darnit!!! I can't believe it.  I thought I looked over all the code but I did have a typo
17:38 < SDuensin> :-)
17:38 < SDuensin> Is this a contributed module, or part of the 7.4.x tree?
17:39 < danny_mk> and talk about JT pinpointing it.  WG best practices conflicted with my best practices :-)
17:39 < danny_mk> LOL
17:39 <@rizen> so this bug is no more then?
17:40 < danny_mk> i had "my $i18n = new WebGUI::International->new(...
17:40 < AMH_henry> @danny_mk: my $i18n = new WebGUI::International($self->session, 'AuthOpenId', 'English'); won“t work because there's already a subroutine called new in your current package
17:40 < AMH_henry> you really need the ->new syntax
17:40 < danny_mk> not true Henry but I did change the code.
17:41 < danny_mk> I am going with WG best coding practices.  That way I will avoid conflicts when cutting and pasting code.
17:43 < danny_mk> You know, a couple things that still bug me are the fact that I use CGI::new instead of $self->session->request
17:44 < danny_mk> it should really work with the request object but I had problems with that in the beggining.  I may take a look at that today.
17:45 < AMH_henry> see http://perldoc.perl.org/perlobj.html (Indirect Object Syntax)
17:47 < danny_mk> Hmmm.... great call Henry.  I stand corrected.  No more Indirect Object Syntax for me in Perl :-
17:52 < danny_mk> rizen:  No more International bug.   Wish I was home so that I could test it on my other systems.  I will have to do that tonight.
17:54 <@rizen> is Net::OpenID::Consumer only using CGI for form params?
17:55 <@rizen> if so, you could just pass $session->form into it
17:55 <@rizen> because it has a compatible param() method
17:55 < danny_mk> ok, let me try that.
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18:11 < danny_mk> Hmmm... it has a problem with that.   Let me look at the WebGUI api to see if I can find a suitable object.  It really wants one of these:  a HASH ref, CODE ref, Apache $r, Apache::Request $apreq, or CGI.pm $cgi. 
18:11 < danny_mk> I have to step away from my computer for a few min but BRB
18:13 <@rizen> oh
18:13 <@rizen> then just give it $session->request
18:18 <@khenn> is anyone working on the weather bug?
18:20 < danny_mk> I did that a few times and it still had problems but hopefully they were related to the other bugs I had.  let me try it again.
18:21 < danny_mk> Unknown parameter type (Apache2::Request=SCALAR(0x84923878)) 
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18:22 < danny_mk> Hmmm...
18:22 < danny_mk> CGI::new works great but I would prefer not to use another module.
18:27 <@rizen> not to mention it won't make it into the core with that
18:27 <@rizen> not that i'm saying it would make it into the core without it either
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18:28 < danny_mk> I understand.  I like the idea of SSO using a trusted 3rd party and I thought OpenId was a viable solution.
18:30  * SDuensin likes OpenId.
18:31 <@rizen> sure, i like openid too...but until i can fully review your implementation i can't say it will make it in
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18:42 < danny_mk> Ah, gotit!   I had to look at the code in Session::Form and I used $session->form->paramsHashRef
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19:21 < danny_mk> Hmmm.... the perdoc documentation for WebGUI::Cache does not seem to acurately reflect the actual module.  
19:21 <@rizen> report a bug if that's the case
19:21 < danny_mk> is there a problem with using Cache::File instead of WebGUI::Cache ?
19:23 <@rizen> yes
19:23 <@rizen> mainly that Cache::File is horribly inefficient
19:23 <@rizen> we used to use it in WebGUI
19:23 <@rizen> it's a big stupid pig
19:24 < danny_mk> LOL... Ok, I will use WebGUI::Cache instead.
19:25 <@rizen> also Cache::File won't work on clusters
19:26 <@rizen> WebGUI::Cache is cluster safe
19:38 < danny_mk> rizen:  What is the required second argument to "WebGUI::Cache->new($self->session,???)", does it have to be ["user",$userId]?
19:39 < danny_mk> I hate to keep asking all these questions but I rather move this along instead of spending hours reading and understanding modules
19:39 <@rizen> the key that you're storing under....usually an assetId or something else unique to you
19:40 <@rizen> you could say "auth_openid"
19:40 <@rizen> if you're only storing one thing in it
19:40 < danny_mk> right now I have my $cache = WebGUI::Cache->new($self->session,["openidSession",$wgOpenIdKey]);
19:40 <@rizen> i don't know exactly what you're doing with the cache so i can't say more than that
19:41 <@rizen> that would work
19:41 < danny_mk> I know the value of wgOpenIdKey from a posted argument.  When I recreate the cache with the same arguments it should work right?
19:41 <@rizen> yup
19:41 < danny_mk> even if I have a different session and I am a different user?
19:42 <@rizen> yeah, sessionId has nothing to do with it
19:42 <@rizen> unless you include that in your key name
19:42 < danny_mk> ok, thanks.
20:15 < danny_mk> OK, last question before I do another release.  This one uses the WG api where ever it has to.  
20:17 < danny_mk> In using Cache I need to pass an cache object that "has a ->get($key) and ->set($key,$value) methods" WebGUI::Cache and its derived classes do not really seem to support these signatures.
20:17 < danny_mk> I can do it without cache but it is recommended we use cache.
20:49 <@rizen> nice job with openid...looks good
20:49 <@rizen> at first glance
20:50 < danny_mk> Thank you.
20:50 < danny_mk> I forgot that I don't have an explanation for the Accept and Deny lists in the Settings.
20:51 < danny_mk> The list has to be separated by commas
20:51 < danny_mk> I will put that in my post
21:16 < danny_mk> rizen:  without reading through all the code is there an easy way to ad the tooltip to the Accept and Deny lists?  
21:16 <@rizen> on the form element pass in a parameter called hoverHelp
21:17 <@rizen> hoverHelp => $i18n->get("accept list help"),
21:17 < danny_mk> ah, perfect, thanks.
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22:40 < xootom> I have a query about groups. In the user import script (unlike the groupadd macro) does it only take group IDs to join the user to a group? I.e. the random ID, not the 'nice' group name.
22:41 <@rizen> yes it only takes the group id
22:41 <@rizen> not the name
22:45 <@rizen> bug--
22:45 <@rizen> bug --
22:46 <@rizen> bug --
22:46 <@rizen> bug --
22:46 <@rizen> bug --
22:46 < xootom> Thanks, I've added some users with it now, there are a few hundred so I get the search when I go to user manager. The users all have a unique number as their default username, but I only appear to be able to search on username... how would I find someone based on their name? 
22:47 <@rizen> if you add their first/last name to their profile
22:47 <@rizen> the user manager lets you search on username, email address, first name, and last name
22:50 <@rizen> danny_mk: what about the cache docs didn't you like?
22:50 <@rizen> the only thing i found that was suspect, that the "key" parameter wasn't fully documented in the constructor
22:52 < xootom> I've added firstnames and last names and they are visible in the user profile view but I can only find the user if I type a bit of the username 
22:53 <@rizen> did you see in the search there is "begins with"
22:53 <@rizen> "ends with"
22:53 <@rizen> contains
22:53 <@rizen> etc
22:53 <@rizen> make sure you have that set appropriately
22:53 <@rizen> so if you're tying "fred"
22:54 <@rizen> then you either need contains or begins with
22:54 <@rizen> if the thing you're searching for is "fredrick"
22:54 < xootom> Yeah I've tried all the settings, i'm trying Paul, tried both cases, it returns one I added manually but not one from the user import
22:54 < xootom> i.e. only the one that paul was in the username
22:54 < xootom> It's on Contains Paul Any
22:55 < xootom> his user name is Y372202399054
22:55 < xootom> so searching Y returns him, but Paul doesn't
22:56 <@rizen> your right, it appears to be a bug
22:56 <@rizen> it's currently only searching email address and username
22:56 <@rizen> it's supposed to search all four
22:56 < xootom> ah ok I'll raise it as a bug thanks
23:35 < danny_mk> rizen:  I have to delete or annotate that but.  I typed in 'perldoc Cache' in the WebGUI/lib/WebGUI directory and I assumed it was looking at the pod contained in WebGUI::Cache
23:35 < danny_mk> sorry about that.
23:35 < danny_mk> I never looked in the file!
--- Day changed Wed Aug 15 2007
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00:03 < xootom> What's the minimum permissions needed to give users access to modify their own set of pages? -- I have given a user access to a group with permissions to edit a page. Do I have to put them into "turn admin on" to let them edit content?? I tried logging in as this test user, and they can go into version tags and delete and mess around with other people's working tags etc. etc. which doesn't seem very secure.
00:05 <@preaction> they don't need to be part of Turn Admin On to edit, but they do need a link to ?func=edit
00:05 <@preaction> they will need access to Turn Admin On to be able to commit their version tag
00:06 <@preaction> in 7.4 you can set permissions for every panel in the admin console, so if you want, the Turn Admin On group can turn admin on but not actually do anything
00:06 < xootom> can they see the version tags panel though and switch to and commit other people's version tag?
00:06 <@preaction> yes
00:07 <@preaction> 7.4 also has a way to auto-commit every edit to an asset, which would probably serve you better
00:07 < xootom> yes that'd probably do it, i wonder how i can provide them with edit buttons to everything though if they can't turn admin mode on
00:08 <@preaction> you'd allow them to turn admin on, by adding them to the Turn Admin On group, but you'd modify the Admin Console permissions to deny them from actually Doing anything on the admin console
00:10 < xootom> can i make the auto-commit only apply to lower ui-level users?
00:10 <@rizen> o
00:10 <@rizen> no
00:13  * danny_mk is back
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00:21 < xootom> At the moment Turn Admin On users see all the New Content items even on pages they don't have permissions to, resulting in permission denied errors. I'm thinking of filing an RFE, it would seem to me to be more logical for users without access to add things to the current page, not to see the New Content side panel at those times (the same as you don't see Clipboard or Version Tags when they're empty)
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00:48 < xootom> I've enabled auto-commits on my site, but when i save or change an article or whatever, it doesn't appear after pressing save, I have to go to another page then back again, or press reload (but then I have to confirm reposting form data etc). is that a known bug?
00:58 <@rizen> how do you know you enabled auto commits?
00:58 <@rizen> there are three things you have to do to make it work
00:59 <@rizen> Automatically request commit? has to be yes
00:59 <@rizen> Skip commit comments? shoudl be yes
00:59 <@rizen> Default Version Tag Workflow has to be Commit Content Immediately
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01:25 < xootom> ahh my Default VT workflow was still set at Commit without approval, I hadn't noticed the new option. Thanks
01:28 <@rizen> bug --
01:28 <@rizen> bug --
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02:09 <@rizen> bug --
02:14  * SDuensin cheers ++
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16:06 < SDuensin> Morning.
16:06 < AMH_bob> Top of the morning to you too.
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16:44 <@rizen> howdy all
16:44 <+MrHairgrease> hi
16:48 < SDuensin> Hey rizen 
16:48 < SDuensin> Howdy MrHairgrease 
16:56 <+MrHairgrease> hi SDuensin
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17:14 < xootom> hi all
17:15 <+MrHairgrease> hi
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17:33 < sno> What does it mean when this message pops up during a CGI save attempt? "This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using."
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> it means that someone (maybe even yourself) has edited the asset under adifferent tag than you are using
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> and that that tag has not yet been comitted
17:34 <+MrHairgrease> to edit the asset either:
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> 1) Commit the tag the asset is under and once that is completed edit it.
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> or
17:35 <+MrHairgrease> 2) switch to the tag the asset is under and edit it
17:35 < sno> Hmm.  That asset hasn't been edited since yesterday, but was committed.  I was working on that part of the system for an hour today, and then suddenly this popped up as a problem.
17:36 < sno> Even so, I went to version tags and for some reason found a version not committed.
17:36 < sno> Weird.
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> if you loose your cookie
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> and log back in
17:36  * SDuensin hates tight cookies.
17:36 < sno> Maybe that was it.
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> you will not be under the tag you were in your last session
17:36 <+MrHairgrease> could be
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> anyway
17:37 <+MrHairgrease> just use that tag and carry on =)
17:37 < sno> Checking the admin nav version tag option and committing it solved it.  Thanks.
17:38 <+MrHairgrease> ok
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19:17 <+MrHairgrease> rizen
19:17 <+MrHairgrease> i have a question about workflow activities
19:18 <+MrHairgrease> \do you have time?
19:19 <@rizen> shoot
19:19 <+MrHairgrease> i'm planning on making one which should fetch files from an ftp server or something like that
19:19 <+MrHairgrease> now
19:19 <+MrHairgrease> activities can only last one minute
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> so what would be the best appoach to fetch file that take over a minute to download?
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> i thought maybe forking a process or something like that
19:20 <@rizen> you'd need to fork a process
19:20 <@rizen> yeah
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> but that isn't portable
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> right?
19:20 <@rizen> no it isn't
19:20 <+MrHairgrease> ok
19:20 <@rizen> what kind of file would you be downloading that would take that long?
19:21 <@rizen> don't get me wrong
19:21 <@rizen> i understand in the greater scheme of FTPing
19:21 <@rizen> it could take days to download stuff
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno yet
19:21 <@rizen> but relative to the workflow engine
19:21 <+MrHairgrease> but it should be possible
19:21 <@rizen> it seems that anything you were going to grab would be quick
19:22 <@rizen> one way to do it in a portable fashion
19:22 <@rizen> would be to write an FTP service daemon
19:22 <@rizen> that the workflow activity could communicate with
19:22 <@rizen> that way it would be portable
19:22 <@rizen> and could run as long as it needed to
19:22 <@rizen> and could notify the workflow when it was done doing whatever it was asked to do
19:22 <@rizen> i'm not saying writing an FTP server
19:22 <@rizen> but rather an FTP getter
19:23 <@rizen> as a daemon
19:31 < xootom> I'm importing users using userImport.pl, but my file has birthdates in a date format and they're not getting converted (epoch time in seconds?)... where should the conversion take place, a special case for 'birthdate' in userImport.pl?
19:31 <@rizen> you'd need to request a new feature be added to userImport.pl
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21:27 < perlmonkey2> Wow, lots of people in the room today.  Or has this become the norm?
21:27 <@rizen> this has become the norm lately
21:27 <@rizen> for the past couple of weeks
21:28 <@rizen> the other day there were almost 30 people on at the same time
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22:02 <@preaction> i blame the split of plainblack.com/webgui.org
22:02 <+MrHairgrease> for what?
22:03 <@preaction> the new influx of people to WebGUI and this channel
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> that's good right?
22:04 <@preaction> yes
22:14 <@rizen> hehe
22:16 <@preaction> that and new exposure on F/OSS websites like sourceforge, ohloh, and any other ones we find.
22:17 <+MrHairgrease> it's just that
22:17 <+MrHairgrease> i expected you, as a experienced svn user, to praise good things instead of blameing em
22:18 <+MrHairgrease> but that's just me =)
22:18 <@preaction> but an experienced svn user knows that blame and praise is the same thing ;)
22:18 <+MrHairgrease> sure 
22:18 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not saying you're wrong
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> It's just the way you feel when you decide which one to use
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> think of it in beer
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> if you hate someone
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> give 'em bud light
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> if you praise em
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> give miller mgd
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> or even better
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> something from belgium
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> =)
22:20 <@preaction> you're evil. i wouldn't subject even my enemies to the horrors of bud light
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> i once bought one in chigcago
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> but what did know...
22:21 <@preaction> yes, they call that "beer" around here... it's crazy
22:21 <+MrHairgrease> back then I was hip fashionable eurotrash too
22:21 <+MrHairgrease> crazy waterdrinkin yankees =)
22:21 <@preaction> you think that's bad, you haven't had Milwaukee's Best Light (also known as The Beast), or Natural Ice (also known as Nasty Ice)
22:22 <+MrHairgrease> and I never will...
22:22 <@preaction> you're not coming down for the wuc?
22:23 <+MrHairgrease> No, I'll be there
22:23 <+MrHairgrease> but I won't drink that crap
22:24 <@preaction> i suppose, you've tried the Bud Light (Uncle Ben's Perverted Rice Water), i shant subject you to worse ;)
22:24 <+MrHairgrease> it had no taste at all
22:24 <@rizen> while MHG is here I'm going to get him hooked on Capital brew and Great Dane brew
22:24 <+MrHairgrease> i'd rather drink tap water
22:25 <+MrHairgrease> you do that
22:25 <+MrHairgrease> joeri will tag along too I'm sure
22:25 <@rizen> it's good stuff...and i'm not even a beer dringer
22:25 <@rizen> drinker
22:25 <+MrHairgrease> speaking of beer.
22:25 <+MrHairgrease> It's time for a couple
22:26 <+MrHairgrease> while you guys are struggling to 5pm =)
22:26 <+MrHairgrease> later guys
22:26 <@rizen> later
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 16 2007
00:09 <+crythias> MGD... mmm
00:09 <+crythias> like Corona... without the pretention.
00:13 < perlmonkey2> POE is a workaround to Perl's lack of decent threading.  With Perl 6 having a real threaded env, why is POE (vulnerable to blocking) better?
00:13 < perlmonkey2> In regards to the pure perl stack.
00:14 <@rizen> because POE is not threaded
00:14 <@rizen> threading is not a good thing when you're talking about high performance environments
00:14 <@rizen> don't get be wrong...threading is easy and useful
00:14 <@rizen> s/be/me/
00:15 <@rizen> think of it this way
00:15 <@rizen> with threads you have a stack
00:15 <@rizen> and a heap
00:15 <@rizen> sorry stack
00:15 <@rizen> the stack can only grow to a certain size
00:15 <@rizen> and the thread manager is heavy because it has to be generic enough to handle anything
00:16 <@rizen> when you write an event driven mono-process like POE
00:16 <@rizen> you can build in the multi-tasking the way you want it done
00:16 <@rizen> rather than how the thread manager want's it done
00:16 <@rizen> that's why most video games are single threaded
00:17 <@rizen> they can outperform the native threads and processes of the operating system's environment
00:17 < perlmonkey2> Even if that is so, what about taking advantage of multi-proc/core machines?
00:18 <@rizen> well that's the advantage of using a preforker or a native thread library
00:18 <@rizen> it usually handles that for you
00:18 <@rizen> although some thread libraries can't handle multi-processors at all or very well either
00:19 <@rizen> the arguement basically boils down to a build it vs buy it scenario
00:19 <@rizen> if you build it, it will take more time and you'll have more initial heart aches
00:19 <@rizen> but you can make it do anything you want
00:19 <@rizen> and exactly how you want
00:19 <@rizen> if you buy it
00:19 <@rizen> then you're stuck with what they give you
00:20 <@rizen> in our case, we're actually not building it or buying it in the traditional sense
00:20 < perlmonkey2> So even though POE is single threaded, you get exact control over where the control point  goes after every stack exit?
00:20 <@rizen> we're buying something someone else has built
00:21 <@rizen> yes, we can put in our own process queing and process priorities
00:21 <@rizen> we can set up our own exit points, heap managmeent, etc
00:22 <@rizen> incidentally, once perl6 is released, rocco has stated that one of the process management options will be to use perl's native threading
00:22 <@rizen> so we'll have that option too
00:22 < perlmonkey2> eh?  POE will use 6's native threading?
00:22 <@rizen> rocco is the guy that wrote POE
00:22 <@rizen> no, it won't use it
00:22 <@rizen> it will have the capability of using it
00:22 < perlmonkey2> that is ........ beautiful.
00:22 <@rizen> that's what i'm sayying
00:23 < perlmonkey2> I'm tearing up here.
00:23 <@rizen> it's pluggable
00:23 <@rizen> all the way through
00:23 <@rizen> don't like how something works...build your own or choose from one of the 50 other ways to make it work that someone else has already written
00:24 <@rizen> incidentally...i just did a horrible job of explaining it
00:24 <@rizen> mainly cuz i don't actually dive into the guts of this stuff
00:24 <@rizen> i just know from benchmarks which is better
00:25 <@rizen> and various technical briefs i've read
00:25 < perlmonkey2> don't dive into the guts?  hah, I learned POE by looking at your code.  MUCH better examples than the outdated poorly maintained POE examples.
00:26 <@rizen> well i know how to code for poe.. what i mean is that i haven't actually written one off the kernel plugins for poe
00:26 <@rizen> like a queue manager for example
00:26 <@rizen> i use poe as is
00:27 <@rizen> i just rest easy knowing that i *can* dive in there if i need to
00:28 < perlmonkey2> something that is interesting about the p6 thread plugin is that all operations on shared objects currently are atomic on POE.  There is no need to synchronize access because two thread/clients can't access the object at the same time.  But with the threading model, they can.  Think this will be difficult for rocco to overcome?
00:31 <@rizen> no idea
00:31 <@rizen> he's a pretty smart guy, but kind of a recluse
00:31 <@rizen> it's hard to get a read on him
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00:33 < perlmonkey2> In my opinion, the largest of the pitfalls you list for the pureperl stack is the multi-core issue, which the perl 6 threaded process management poe plugin will help resolve.
00:34 <@rizen> i don't think it will be too big of an issue
00:34 <@rizen> it's simply a matter of working with it to see what we can come up with
00:34 <@rizen> poe already has a prefork system
00:34 <@rizen> and inter kernel communication
00:35 <@rizen> so we could just fork one instance for each core on the box
00:35 <@rizen> and then have each of the processes delegate to each other using federated IKC
00:35 < perlmonkey2> and IKC seems rock solid.
00:36 <@rizen> but who knows if we'll even do the pure perl stack
00:36 <@rizen> i'm sure there will be lots of backlash if we go that way
00:38 < perlmonkey2> Well, I like the idea.
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01:30 < danny_mk> rizen:  Do you know which one of the developers has experience writting tests that deal with 3rd party websites?
01:31 <@rizen> what do you mean 3rd party web sites?
01:31 <@rizen> why are you testing 3rd party web sites?
01:31 < danny_mk> specifically when setting $self->session->http->setRedirect to a foreign website
01:32 < danny_mk> OpenId requires a third party to for authentication
01:32 < danny_mk> the provider
01:32 <@rizen> are you actually testing the remote site
01:32 <@rizen> or do you just want to know that your redirect is going to the right url?
01:33 < danny_mk> the OpenId module works great on my laptop (test system) however the redirect headers don't seem to hit my browser
01:33 < danny_mk> from one of my servers
01:34 < danny_mk> so I want to test that the redirect headers actually send the browser to the provider and then back to the WebGUI site
01:34 <@rizen> setRedirect definitely works
01:34 <@rizen> but if you wan tto write a test for it
01:34 <@rizen> you can
01:34 <@rizen> what you want to do is 
01:35 <@rizen> set an output handler in WebGUI::Session::Output
01:35 <@rizen> so that you can call your code
01:35 < danny_mk> By using Live Http headers and the $self->session->errorHandler->warn method I have noticed that it does hit the area where the headers are supposed to go to the browser
01:35 <@rizen> and then catch the output coming from webgui
01:35 <@rizen> to see if it's what you expect
01:35 < danny_mk> however the "<meta refresh"  never gets sent to the browser
01:36 <@rizen> the meta refresh never should be sent to the browser
01:36 <@rizen> under normal circumstances it should only send a redirect
01:36 <@rizen> so you should be doing:
01:36 <@rizen> $session->http->setRedirect($url);
01:36 <@rizen> return 1;
01:37 <@rizen> sorry
01:37 <@rizen> return "redirect"
01:37 <@rizen> the meta refresh only gets sent to the browser if content is returned
01:38 <@rizen> it's sort of a last ditch effort in case all else fails
01:40 < danny_mk> hmmm... I am a little lost.  By using Live http headers I can monitor the trafic between my browser and the webserver.  My browser never gets any directives that tells it to go to the provider.  I must be missing something.
01:40 < danny_mk> I am not saying that WebGUI is the culprit.  I am just saying that something is not right.
01:40 < danny_mk> I have been wrong too many times to blame WebGUI again :-)
01:40 < danny_mk> LOL
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01:41 <@rizen> sorry man i don't know how to help you
01:41 <@rizen> i haven't really looked at your code yet
01:42 <@rizen> too busy with my own code
01:42 < danny_mk> no problem, I will look into it further.  WebGUI has a couple good tools for troubleshooting stuff like this.
01:43 < danny_mk> However, I am wondering how I will write an effective test for this module.
01:43 <@rizen> that's what i was saying before
01:43 <@rizen> you can trap webgui's output in a test
01:43 <@rizen> you can set an output handler in $session->output
01:43 <@rizen> so that it directs it back to your test
01:43 <@rizen> so then you can call your code
01:43 <@rizen> that has the setRedirect in it
01:43 <@rizen> and you can verify that webgui has sent the appropriate data
01:44 <@rizen> $session->output->setHandler
01:44 <@rizen> $session->output->setHandle($handle);
01:44 <@rizen> then 
01:44 <@rizen> $myObj->runCode;
01:45 <@rizen> Then check $handle
01:45 <@rizen> for the output
01:45 <@rizen> get it?
01:45 < danny_mk> yup.  I will try that.
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03:22 < perlmonkey2> Has anyone mixed WebGUI/Poe with Moose?
03:23 <@rizen> what is moose?
03:24 < perlmonkey2> moose is the Perl6 OO bolted onto Perl5.
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03:26 <@rizen> in that case the answer is now
03:26 <@rizen> no
03:27 <@rizen> we're starting to migrate to Class::InsideOut
03:28 < perlmonkey2> Anything beats %hashObject
03:29 <@rizen> So far I like Class::InsideOut quite a bit
03:29 <@rizen> i wrote the whole new WRE 0.8 API using it
03:30 <@rizen> and the new Keywords API with it too
03:30 < perlmonkey2> I've used the insideout oo method, but never that particular class.  I'll have to check it out.
03:31 < perlmonkey2> Because I *have* to use OO or I quickly become inable to understand my code.
03:31 <@rizen> Class::InsideOut is cool because it doesn't force your module to work a certain way
03:32 <@rizen> but you still get the benefits of no hash objects
03:32 <@rizen> thread safety
03:32 <@rizen> automatic object destruction
03:32 < perlmonkey2> nice
03:32 <@rizen> automatic accessors/mutators
03:32 <@rizen> etc
03:32 < perlmonkey2> That sounds like it does a lot of what moose does.
03:33 <@rizen> it does
03:33 <@rizen> i'm reading the moose docs now
03:33 <@rizen> it looks pretty cool
03:33 <@rizen> but it looks even more powerful than class::insideout
03:34 < perlmonkey2> I don't know class::insideout , but Moose has been fun to use.
03:34 < perlmonkey2> The biggest plus for me is that it is supposed to closely resemble Perl6 OOP.
03:34 <@rizen> i wish i would have known about moose prior to using class inside out, but i'm afraid i'm not going to go back now
03:35 < perlmonkey2> Yes, sunk costs must be recouped, especially when they are time.
03:35 <@rizen> i'm already too far behind as it is
03:35 <@rizen> i need a 100 hour work day
03:35 < perlmonkey2> hah
03:36 < perlmonkey2> Do you keep busy doing contract work, or are you the lead dev on WebGUI or do those two overlap?
03:36 < perlmonkey2> But if you find out where to find those 100 hour work days, point them out to me.
03:38 <@rizen> i only do contract work when we run out of contractors
03:38 <@rizen> i happen to be doing a contract right now cuz one of our contractors bailed
03:39 <@rizen> normally i am the only one doing R&D on WebGUI and WRE
03:39 <@rizen> and then of course there's the business to run
03:40 < perlmonkey2> Are all your people contractors, or are the regulars full timers?
03:41 < perlmonkey2> And would the survey system be considered part of the D in R&D?
03:42 <@rizen> that's true
03:42 <@rizen> you're helping me with d
03:42 <@rizen> so thank you
03:42 <@rizen> i should say, i'm the only paid person doing r&d
03:43 <@rizen> we have 9 full time staffers
03:43 < perlmonkey2> holy crap.  you're huge.
03:43 <@rizen> and they all work on client project work
03:43 <@rizen> except me
03:43 <@rizen> we're tiny
03:43 < perlmonkey2> seems like a pretty large operation for WebGUI only really hitting its prime in the last few years.  
03:44 <@rizen> beyond that we have 1 part timer, and about 30 contractors that we use on and off
03:44 <@rizen> you gotta remember that webgui has been about business since day one
03:44 <@rizen> unlike apps like joomla that are more concerned about your casual user
03:45 < perlmonkey2> Yeah, which is what I liked about the project.  A GNU project that makes money.
03:45 < perlmonkey2> And focused on people making money.
03:45 <@rizen> yeah...i don't want to be a charity
03:46 <@rizen> i'm trying to prove that it's possible to run a healthy organic open source driven business that's both profitable
03:46 <@rizen> and not artificially held up with venture capital
03:46 < perlmonkey2> Sounds like you are doing alright
03:47 <@rizen> we're doing pretty good, but me being a perfectionist, i think we can always do much better
03:48 <@rizen> by any normal standards we're doing fantastic
03:48 <@rizen> i just set really high standards for myself
03:48 <@rizen> =)
03:48 < perlmonkey2> Heh, all the millionaires I know were perfectionists.
03:49 < perlmonkey2> But I'm glad you're doing well.  Gets me excited about the survey system when I think lots of people will use it.
03:51 <@rizen> oh yeah
03:51 <@rizen> if it turns out really nice
03:51 <@rizen> it will be used by thousands
03:51 <@rizen> perhaps millions
03:51 < perlmonkey2> You have millions of users?
03:51 <@rizen> we have thousands of deployments
03:51 < perlmonkey2> Which is pretty easy to assume millions of users.....wow
03:51 <@rizen> and our clients have hundreds of thousands and some even have millions
03:52 <@rizen> our largest client technically has over 1 billion users
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03:52 < perlmonkey2> Chinese .gov?
03:52 <@rizen> state.gov
03:52 <@rizen> all of the US Embassy web sites world wide
03:53 < perlmonkey2> I thought all the code looked really tight.  And it would have to be to serve the embassies which would be a prime hacker target.
03:54 <@rizen> i'm slowly replacing all the code that i don't think is tight
03:54 <@rizen> like the survey for example
03:54 <@rizen> =)
03:54 < perlmonkey2> No pressure on me
03:55 <@rizen> i'm certain you'll do fine
03:55 <@rizen> i honestly can't wait to see the new ajaxish editor
03:55 < perlmonkey2> Yeah, it's going to be pretty sweet.
03:56 < perlmonkey2> Okay, I've got to take off for a bit.  Catch you later.
03:58 <@rizen> bye
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14:42 < wgGuest77> hi
14:43 < wgGuest77> I have a problem upgrading
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14:45 < wgGuest77> hi
14:45 < wgGuest77> can you help me?
14:48 < AMH_henry> what's wrong?
14:48 < wgGuest77> my update from 7.3.22 to 7.4.3 failed
14:48 < AMH_henry> error messages?
14:48 < wgGuest77> I installed all the required modules as written in the gotchas
14:49 < wgGuest77> but the upgrade scripts outputs errors regarding JSON
14:49 < wgGuest77> I did a force install in CPAN but many tests failed
14:49 < AMH_henry> what operating system?
14:49 < wgGuest77> now I'm trying to update CPAN
14:49 < wgGuest77> latest OS X
14:50 < wgGuest77> WRE 0.7.2
14:50 < AMH_henry> hmm... i'm not experience with OS X.. sorry
14:53 < wgGuest77> :/
14:55 < AMH_henry> maybe you can try to post a quest in the forum
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15:55 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:48 < perlmonkey2> SDuensin: Hello
16:50 <@rizen> howdy
16:51 < SDuensin> Woke up to an insane server load and a corrupt database today.  <sigh>
16:55 <@rizen> yuk...on webgui server?
16:55 <@rizen> corrupt as in you can just myisamchk and fix it, or as in totally destroyed?
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17:02 < SDuensin> I fixed it with mysqlcheck.
17:02 < SDuensin> And yea, on a WebGUI server.
17:03 <@rizen> i think you better switch to opencms
17:03 <@rizen> you're not having much luck with webgui
17:03 <@rizen> =)
17:03 <@rizen> any indication of what happened?
17:04 < SDuensin> Nope.  Everything was fine last night, today I couldn't contact the box.  So it got a reboot to the head.
17:04 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.3-beta / 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://www.plainblack.com/wuc
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17:19 < AMH_mari> @SDuensin: is your machine by any chance running Fedora?
17:21 < SDuensin> Unfortunately.
17:24 < xootom> same happened here yesterday afternoon
17:24 < xootom> fc4
17:25 < SDuensin> Ut oh.
17:25 < AMH_mari> We had a bit of a problem with the yum update daemon some time ago. Our servers went down with zero swap space remaining. Disabling via /etc/init.d/yum-updatesd solved it.
17:25 < AMH_mari> (Fedora core 6)
17:25 < SDuensin> Interesting.
17:26 < AMH_mari> It is some time ago and the update daemon might be fixed now. But we don't want an automated yum update anyway, so have not checked this.
17:27 < SDuensin> I have an /etc/init.d/yum, and it's "off" in all runlevels.
17:28 < AMH_mari> No yum-updatesd? If so run the following to turn it off: chkconfig --del yum-updatesd
17:28 < SDuensin> Nope.  No yum-updatesd.
17:28 < SDuensin> This is FC4.
17:28  * SDuensin hates using old OSs.
17:28 < AMH_mari> Aha, we're running FC6...
17:29 < AMH_mari> Doesn't apply then.
17:29 < SDuensin> I had a choice of FC4 or an even older Debian.  Eww.
17:30 < SDuensin> After I got the box rebooted, and before I fixed the database errors, I had a couple httpd processes sucking up all the RAM in the box.
17:30 < SDuensin> As soon as I fixed the database, they were happy.
17:30 <@rizen> yeah, the problem is definitely that your databases got corrupted
17:30 <@rizen> the question is how did that happen
17:31 < SDuensin> Well, in the process of poking around, I've noticed that database has a workflow that won't run.
17:31 < SDuensin> Next question is, how do I safely delete it?
17:31 <@rizen> the only way i've seen a table crash in mysql is if either someone killed the mysql process (hard kill, system power off), or if the filesystem is having problems
17:32 <@rizen> why won't it run?
17:32 <@rizen> generally speaking it's not safe to delete workflows
17:32 <@rizen> which is why there's no way to do it through the UI
17:35 < SDuensin> I think it hates me.  That's why it won't run.
17:35 < SDuensin> What was the curl command to get the error?
17:43 <@rizen> curl http://www.example.com/?op=getSpectreConfig
17:43 <@rizen> is that what you're looking for?
17:44 <@rizen> oops
17:44 <@rizen> curl http://www.example.com/?op=spectreGetSiteData
17:44 <@rizen> and then you can also run individual workflows
17:45 <@rizen> curl http://www.example.com/?op=runWorkflow;instanceId=XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
17:45 <@rizen> but you need to escape the ;
17:45 <@rizen> otherwise the commmand line interprets it as a seperate command
17:46 <@rizen> curl http://www.example.com/?op=runWorkflow\;instanceId=XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
17:50 < xootom> the userImport.pl script seems to have ignored my userId column and has given each user a random gui, to try the import again am i safe just removing these records (1773 of them) from users and userProfileData?
17:51 < xootom> or even just updating the userId column with sql, i want userId to be = username
17:52 <@rizen> userId must be a 22 character string
17:52 <@rizen> or an integer
17:52 <@rizen> so userId cannot = username
17:52 < xootom> the usernames are all integers, they need to link to records in other tables based on userId
17:53 <@rizen> userId must be an integer less than 3 digits
17:53 < xootom> oh no :(
17:53 <@rizen> sorry less than 5 digits
17:53 < xootom> ah that's ok they're 3 and 4
17:53 <@rizen> i should also note that at some point userId's will be 100% replaced with guids
17:54 <@rizen> that will be a long time from now (2009 or 2010)
17:54 <@rizen> but you should not set your own userIds
17:54 < xootom> hmm i wonder if i can replace the ids in the other tables with the new guids instead
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17:54 <@rizen> it's not safe to update the userId column
17:54 <@rizen> you can either delete them
17:54 <@rizen> but make sure you delete them everywhere
17:54 <@rizen> users
17:55 <@rizen> userSession
17:55 <@rizen> groupings
17:55 <@rizen> userProfileData
17:55 < xootom> i'll leave them there then, and find the new userId for each username to put in other tables
17:55 <@rizen> or use the API to delete them
17:56 < SDuensin> Sorry.  I was AFK.  Dang real work.
18:00 < SDuensin> rizen - I get a "Problem with Request" and then the main page of the site.
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18:03 < chris77> Hello. How do I change the site logo?
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18:08 <@rizen> SD: check the webgui.log
18:08 <@rizen> and if there's nothing there check the modperl log
18:09 <@rizen> chris77: you upload a new logo to your site, and then edit your style template
18:09 <@rizen> to point to the new log
18:09 <@rizen> logo
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19:40 < sno> Has anyone else observed calendar events being placed on the wrong date (one day before) in 7.4?
19:41 < sno> I have (beta) right now, in case that matters.
19:42 <@preaction> when using recurrence? yes
19:42 <@preaction> graham has a fix for that, but it's a pretty sweeping fix that may not make it in for a bit
19:43 < sno> My event editor doesn't have a recurrence form element in it.
19:44 <@preaction> so you're not setting the event's recurrence pattern?
19:45 < sno> Apparently not.  I see the tab, but I just ignore it.
19:46 < sno> And even if I make sure "all day" is clicked, it still reverts to a seemingly arbitrary time range for the day before.
19:46 <@preaction> using the latest beta? 7.4.3?
19:47 < sno> No, because I'm developing, I had gotten 7.4.0 and have changes against it.
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19:48 < sno> I have been working on this part of the system, but because I though I broke something, I reverted to base code and the problem still appeared.
19:49 < sno> I was thinking it was a TZ conversion thing, but I don't know.
19:49 <@preaction> you might want to update and see if it still happens
19:49 <@preaction> if so, you might want to post a bug report about it
19:50 < sno> Yeah, unfortunately it directly affects work I'm doing on a live project for Jamie.
19:51 < sno> I guess I'll save all my changes, fire up a virgin virtual instance of this development system, update the version, and see if it still exists.
19:52 <@preaction> check out the contribs area, under "misc" for my "switch_webgui.pl", makes switching between WebGUI codebases a lot easier
19:52 < sno> I would have thought other reports might have come in, but perhaps people who work on beta don't necessary work on this part of the system.
19:52 < sno> Ok.
19:52 <@preaction> i should make a wiki article about it, so many developers need to do this ;)
20:20 < SDuensin> Ok, I'm finally back.  Sheesh.
20:20 < SDuensin> My log for that workflow says:
20:20 < SDuensin> 2007/08/16 02:15:49 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - WORKFLOW: Something bad happened on the return of I9dEiqSxDBZfdAXyDTdx9g.
20:21 <@rizen> turn on INFO
20:21 <@rizen> then rerun
20:23 < SDuensin> Say who?
20:23 <@rizen> edit log.conf
20:23 <@rizen> replace WARN with INFO
20:23 <@rizen> restart
20:23 <@rizen> rerun the command
20:24 <@rizen> check your log
20:24 < SDuensin> Ah.  Ok.
20:28 < SDuensin> Ok, I see a couple things...
20:28 < SDuensin> Couldn't execute prepared statement: select fieldId from EventManagementSystem_badges where assetId=? : With place holders: ZhySQGg0jEHIhPwhTvg7pg.  Root cause: Unknown column 'fieldId' in 'field list'
20:28 < SDuensin> That's the only one marked FATAL.
20:31 <@rizen> well that's a problem
20:31 <@rizen> cuz that means that you either upgraded your source
20:31 <@rizen> without upgrading your database
20:31 <@rizen> or you didn't restart apache after an upgrade
20:31 <@rizen> or your upgrade failed
20:32 <@rizen> cuz that field should be in there
20:32 < SDuensin> Ut oh.
20:33 < SDuensin> Should I just panic now?  Or skip straight to the pathetic weeping?
20:33 <@rizen> oh wait
20:33 <@rizen> fieldId shouldn't be in that table
20:34 <@rizen> what workflow activity was it running when you got that?
20:34 < SDuensin>  Running workflow activity pbwfactivity0000000010, which is a WebGUI::Workflow::Activity::PurgeOldTrash, for instance I9dEiqSxDBZfdAXyDTdx9g.
20:35 <@rizen> ah, ok that's a bug
20:35 <@rizen> do this
20:35 <@rizen> edit EventManagementSystem.pm
20:35 <@rizen> line 1083
20:35 <@rizen> change fieldId to badgeId
20:37 <@rizen> now you should restart and that workflow will run
20:38 <@rizen> fixed in 7.4.4
20:38 < SDuensin> In /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/EventManagementSystem.pm ?
20:38 <@rizen> yes
20:39 < SDuensin> Not seeing it on that line.  Searching.
20:39 <@rizen> look in the purge() method
20:39 <@rizen> i was looking at subversion
20:39 <@rizen> your version might be different
20:40 <@rizen> it's toward the end of the purge method
20:40 < SDuensin> I see it.  Changing.
20:42 < SDuensin> Nice.  Thanks!
20:48 <@rizen> you have mistaken my assistance as a magnanimous deed, however muddled the intent, it was in fact just a defect in need of rectification
20:49 < SDuensin> That's OK.  I knew you were defective before I asked.
20:50 <+MrHairgrease> In the end it's all Koens fault
20:50 < SDuensin> As long as it's not mine.  :-)
20:51 <@rizen> i've made the decision that the etymology of my speech is indigent and requires more opacity to eliminate queries from the unwashed masses
20:52 <@preaction> methinks this dictatorship is in desperate requirement of transfiguration into an oligarchy
20:52 <@rizen> precisely
20:53 <+MrHairgrease> I wonder what the origin  the word etymology is =)
20:53 <@preaction> indubiably
21:04 <@rizen> i'm testing new quotes to go in my email signature. which do you like better
21:04 <@rizen> Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. 
21:04 <@rizen> or
21:04 <@rizen>  In life you have to do a lot of things you don't fucking want to do. Many times, that's what the fuck life is... one vile fucking task after another. 
21:05 <@rizen> if only
21:05 <@rizen> sometimes representing a business sucks
21:05 -!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:05 <@rizen> cuz you can't put stuff like that in your sig
21:06 < SDuensin> Bah.  Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck.
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21:33 < perlmonkey2> OpenCMS doesn't seem to have many features.
21:34 < SDuensin> That's why he told me to run it - not as much for me to break!
21:35 <@rizen> that and it's java based, so you can use it with zkdesktop
21:36 <@rizen> also, if you believe the picture on the front page
21:37 <@rizen> you'll laugh and have a good old time every time you use open cms
21:37 <@rizen> http://www.opencms.org/en/index.html
21:38 <@preaction> <3 generic pictures of people using computers on software websites
21:41 < SDuensin> rizen, you guys should use some of the generic hot-women-borderline-porn photos for ads.  It's mostly men installing this thing anyway.  :-P
21:42 <@rizen> yeah, but we have lots of churches and schools as clients
21:42 <@rizen> don't think that will go over very well
21:42 < SDuensin> Well, give her a rosery and a ruler.
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22:15 < perlmonkey2> SDuensin++
22:37 < danny_mk> rizen:  do you know who wrote this sub:  http://pastebin.ca/652879  ?
22:38 <@rizen> looks like colin's code but i can't be sure
22:38 <@rizen> colin
22:38 <@rizen> colin = perlDreamer
22:47 < danny_mk> ok, thanks
23:07 <@preaction> no, that's mine
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23:18 < danny_mk> alright preaction, are you still around?
23:19 < danny_mk> nice function by the way, works great.
23:20 <@preaction> yeah
23:20 < danny_mk> By the way is colin the same colin that worked on Scoop a while back?
23:20 <@preaction> dunno
23:22 < danny_mk> I am trying to write a test for the OpenId module.  However, the way OpenId works is by using a remote site to authenticate your URI
23:23 < danny_mk> so webgui redirects a request to "x" webstie then on return I parse a couple of the params and do another round trip
23:24 < danny_mk> So far your function and the few tests I have written work great.  However, I will still need to see the stuff coming back from the remote site.
23:25 <@preaction> you're going to have to make assumptions about the stuff coming back, and test all possibilities
23:25 <@preaction> (within limits, of course)
23:25 <@preaction> there should be a subroutine in your module that takes the stuff coming back from the remote site and says "yay" or "ney" or whatever it needs to, so you can fashion some responses and test the sub with that
23:26 <@preaction> if later we find bugs with the way some providers return responses to the module, we can add cases in the test
23:28 <@preaction> what do you think it would take to add Yadis support to your OpenID module?
23:28 <@preaction> or, if implementing yadis, wouldn't we need to implement LID or TypeKey as well?
23:28 < danny_mk> are you available by phone?
23:28 <@preaction> not currently, skype is down
23:29 < danny_mk> I can add that stuff later on, after I get these tests written
23:29 < danny_mk> the module works great on my test site (my notebook) however I installed it on one of my servers and something is not happening so I want to get these test done first
23:30 < danny_mk> have you ever done this:  $http->send(http://whatever.com); print $http->response();
23:31 < danny_mk> not specific to the WebGUI api
23:32 <@preaction> using LWP?
23:32 < danny_mk> sure
23:32 <@preaction> yes
23:33 < danny_mk> can I make an assumption that if I write a test using LWP any WebGUI host will be able to support such a test?
23:34 <@preaction> WebGUI requires LWP, yes
23:35 < danny_mk> ok, that is what I will use.
23:35 < danny_mk> I will get input later on Yadis, let me get these tests done first.
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23:58 < danny_mk> Well, it looks like a real test will not work.  Duuring an OpenId conversation the consumer must login to the Provider website
23:59 < danny_mk> Then the URI owner must approve the website.  I don't think this can be done through a test script.
--- Day changed Fri Aug 17 2007
00:01 < danny_mk> I think I am going to have to leave the Provider/Consumer conversation out of the tests.
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01:29 < perlmonkey2> testEvn says I'm missing Graphics::Magick but cpan doens't have that listed.  Is that the imagemagick module?
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> no
01:29 < SDuensin> ReHi
01:29 <+MrHairgrease> installing graphicsmagick will also install the perl module
01:29 < perlmonkey2> cool
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> if your using the wre
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> be sure to set the --prefix and --with-perl options on ./configure
01:30 <+MrHairgrease> or else it will add it to your system perl
01:30 < perlmonkey2> fedora rpm's.  the perl bindings come as a seperate rpm
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> install those
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> and you'll be fine
01:31 <+MrHairgrease> you aren't using the wre right?
01:31 < perlmonkey2> Nope, this is a dev install from subversion.  I don't need the libs, but saw that testenv had been updated so I ran it.
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> ok
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> just making sure
01:32 <+MrHairgrease> =)
01:32 < perlmonkey2> thank :)
01:33 -!- MrHairgrease is now known as MrN00b
01:33  * MrN00b just forgot to use strict
01:33 -!- MrN00b is now known as MrHaigrease
01:36 < perlmonkey2> If your name was Mr1337 you wouldn't need strict :P
01:36 <+MrHaigrease> using strict is very leet
01:37 <+MrHaigrease> even the l33tout asset uses it
01:38 < perlmonkey2> hah
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11:53 < pjesi> is there any solution to https://www.plainblack.com/bugs/tracker/cache-issues ?
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12:29 < sweet18f> hi i'm having this error: ERROR - www.domain.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - The notFound page could not be instanciated! any one can help ?
12:30 -!- sweet18f is now known as Leon
12:31 < Leon> no one ?
12:32 < AMH_henry> what did you specified as notFound page in settings?
12:32 < Leon> default
12:33 < AMH_henry> that page is accessible?
12:33 < Leon> well.. it was
12:34 < Leon> now it isn't
12:34 < AMH_henry> try http://... to it and look for error messages
12:35 < Leon> Internal Server Error
12:36 < AMH_henry> any thing in webgui log?
12:36 < AMH_henry> /var/log/webgui.log
12:36 < Leon> the one i pasted
12:36 < Leon>  ERROR - www.domain.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::error[183] - The notFound page could not be instanciated!
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12:37 < AMH_henry> did you make any changes to the default page?
12:39 < Leon> shit it seems like it was deleted..
12:39 < Leon> i can access another page but not the default one
12:43 < Leon> why i'm creating a page called home and its being renamed to home1 etc ?
12:43 < AMH_henry> maybe there is already another one called home. It could be still in the trashcan
12:44 < Leon> no it isn't 
12:44 < AMH_henry> not even in system trashcan
12:45 < AMH_henry> in case someone else deleted it
12:45 < Leon> where is the system trashcan 
12:45 < Leon> ?
12:45 < AMH_henry> it's in one of the sub-menu“ s on the right
12:48 < Leon> it isn't there too
12:56 < Leon> any other ideas ?
12:58 < AMH_henry> what's the url of your site?
12:59 < Leon> www2,terrasanagroup.com
12:59 < AMH_henry> it cannot display any page at all?
13:00 < Leon> no i can see all other pages
13:00 < Leon> axcept home
13:00 < Leon> http://www2.terrasanagroup.com/userarea
13:01 < AMH_henry> does this work? http://www2.terrasanagroup.com/home?func=edit
13:02 < Leon> nope
13:03 < Leon> is there a way to solve this ?
13:04 < AMH_henry> try changing the default home page to something else in settings
13:04 < AMH_henry> at least you can get a home page that way
13:07 < Leon> is there any kind of page tree to view all pages ?
13:07 < AMH_henry> Assets in Admin Console?
13:08 < AMH_henry> or you can create a navigation asset i guess
13:08 < Leon> why root is not accesable ? mah :/ i'm getting confused
13:09 < AMH_henry> did you login as admin?
13:09 < Leon> yep
13:09 < Leon> i'm getting a blank page
13:10 < AMH_henry> try adding ?func=manageAssets
13:10 < Leon> http://www2.terrasanagroup.com/root?func=manageAssets
13:10 < Leon> blank page
13:12 < AMH_henry> weird.... can you do manageAssets on other pages?
13:12 < Leon> yes
13:14 < Leon> i can't even change the default page from the settings as i can't go into root
13:15 < AMH_henry> you don't need to go into root to change page. you can do that in Show Admin Console and then Settings
13:16 < Leon> yeah i know
13:16 < Leon> but as default its Root
13:16 < Leon> i can't write to it.. so i'll have to press .... button
13:16 < Leon> and to select the page i need to go into the root folder to select a page
13:18 < AMH_henry> ic... weird
13:19 < AMH_henry> any error messages in webgui.log when you access /root?
13:21 < Leon> WARN - www.terrasanagroup.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Visitor (1) connecting from 209.62.91.100 attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're only allowed to accept requests from 209.62.91.100/32,127.0.0.1/32.
13:23 < Leon>  WARN - www.terrasanagroup.com.conf - WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Couldn't call method view on asset for url: root Root cause: Can't call method "getUrl" on an undefined value at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm line 229
13:24 < AMH_henry> you can try putting the site in debug mode .. it might get more info
13:24 < Leon> how can i do that ?
13:24 < AMH_henry> in Settings
13:25 < AMH_henry> then misc. (or something like that) then show debug info
13:31 < AMH_henry> any luck?
13:34 < Leon> nope..
13:35 < Leon> i'm trying to search in the database for the home
13:36 < Leon> status was pending for home..
13:36 < Leon> does that mean something 
13:38 < Leon> i changed it from pending to approved.. now i can see it
13:38 < Leon> but the pages are locked
13:38 < Leon> sorry the home page is locked and even the articles in it
13:41 < Leon> most of the articles in the website are locked
14:03 < AMH_henry> is spectre running?
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15:39 < SDuensin> Morning.
15:39 < AMH_henry> good morning!
15:39 <+MrHairgrease> afternoon
15:49 < pjesi> morning
15:50 < pjesi> anyone having problems with syndicated content?
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18:19 < ftorque> hi
18:21 < ftorque> I'm having a problem with CPAN
18:22 < SynQ> hi
18:22 <@Haarg> what kind of problems?
18:22 < SynQ> CPAN?
18:22 < SynQ> my CPAN is working just fine
18:23 < ftorque> It won't install config::JSON http://paste.biz/paste-2660.html
18:23 < SynQ> that is odd\
18:23 < SynQ> did you use the --force --all options?
18:23 < ftorque> yes I did a force install Config::JSON
18:24 < ftorque> and then answered yes to the append all prerequisites question
18:25 < ftorque> should I use install Config::JSON --force --all options ?
18:25 <@Haarg> it won't work
18:25 <@Haarg> version isn't installing
18:26 <@Haarg> which is a prerequisite
18:26 < SynQ> are you using a mac?
18:26 < ftorque> yes with WRE 0.7.2
18:26 < SynQ> I don't know anything about a mac
18:27 < SynQ> sorry
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18:27 < SDuensin> Did you . ./setenvironment before running cpan?
18:27 < ftorque> Haarg: I answered yes to the prerequisites question.. But maybe there's a bug in CPAN?
18:27 <@Haarg> it's not a bug
18:27 <@Haarg> it's failing to compile
18:27 < ftorque> well the paths seems to be correct.. /data/wre/prereqs/perl
18:27 <@Haarg> which i'm not sure about
18:28 <@Haarg> but you can install the pure perl version
18:28 < ftorque> so if I do a force install ExtUtils::MakeMaker::_version it won't work anyway?
18:28 <@Haarg> yeah
18:28 <@Haarg> do 'look version'
18:28 < ftorque> Sduensin: I actually called /data/wre/prereqs/perl/bin/cpan
18:29 <@Haarg> then run 'perl Makefile.PL --perl_only'
18:29 <@Haarg> then make, make test, make install
18:29 < SDuensin> ftorque - Yea, but I think it still needs that set so it knows which Perl and such to use.
18:30 < ftorque> SDuensin: but as you can see the paths seems to be correct here.. http://paste.biz/paste-2660.html
18:30 <@Haarg> you should be using setenvironment or running /data/wre/sbin/cpan
18:31 <@Haarg> but i'm not sure that will fix this
18:31 < ftorque> Haarg: I just type "look version" in cpan?
18:31 <@Haarg> yeah
18:32 < ftorque> ok now I'm calling /data/wre/sbin/cpan
18:33 < ftorque> running manual cpan setup again....
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18:35 < ftorque> ok look version finished
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18:37 < ftorque> ok it installed correctly
18:38 <@Haarg> Config::JSON should install properly now
18:38 < ftorque> woha let's hope
18:41 < ftorque> there are lots of dependencies I'm answering yes to all...
18:47 < ftorque> yeah it passed the final tests and install went OK it seems!
18:56 < ftorque> woha now update to 7.4.3 went ok!!
18:56 < ftorque> Thank you so much Haarg!
18:57 < ftorque> but the script gave a dozen of !!! Could not fix graph configuration for assetId etc.
18:57 <@Haarg> did you switch platforms at some point?
18:58 < ftorque> yes I was the one affected by the Storable problem
18:58 <@Haarg> yeah, there's not really anything you can do about that.
18:58 <@Haarg> unless you went back the the old platform and did the upgrade there.
18:59 <@Haarg> but then any newer ones you created wouldn't work
18:59 < ftorque> but it does affect just the graphs I hope... That "WARNING: If you saw any errors in the output during upgrade restore immediately" phrase is a bit scary :)
19:01 <@Haarg> yeah, it should only effect those graphs
19:01 <@preaction> i suppose i should've explicitly called it a "warning" instead of a !!!
19:01 < ftorque> damnit I still can't enable the pie chart because of the libPNG problem :(
19:02 < ftorque> ah ok so I shouldn't worry preaction
19:02 <@preaction> no, it just means that the script couldn't parse the configuration (meaning you were affected by the bug)
19:02 < ftorque> which is fixed in WRE 0.8.0 I read... Do you know when that will be out?
19:02 < ftorque> ok
19:02 <@preaction> JT's been trucking on it, and it looks insanely awesome, but no ETA that I know of
19:03 < ftorque> actually cap10morgan posted a fix... Perhaps could you help me install that in the WRE 0.7.2? :) http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/libpng-doesnt-build-on-os-x-intel
19:04 <@preaction> if you don't feel qualified to do this, it's not exactly something trivial
19:05 <@preaction> you'd need to download the WRE source, download the updated libpng source, apply those two patches, and then compile libpng and imagemagick
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19:06 < ftorque> I read you transitioned to GraphicsMagick.. Does it still need LibPNG?
19:06 <@preaction> probably, but the WRE 0.8.0 will have updated to a version of libpng that works
19:07 < ftorque> yeah
19:19 < ftorque> I have to go. Later!
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20:42 < sno> Hi preaction
20:42 < sno> I've posted a bug report on the calender events issue and what I did to cause it to happen on a demo site.
20:43 < sno> I'll also be talking to you about the Calendar system in general as I make modifications to Events.
20:45 < sno> If Haarg is around, he's the one who has posted Qs about my report.
20:45 < sno> I have updated the report.
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00:40 < SynQ> hey, where did the versions in the plainblack wiki go?
00:41 <@rizen> what do you mean, they're still there
00:41 < SynQ> now I'm stuck with the 'JRA version' of /community-wiki/wre-installation and I want to use the JT version of it for /community-wiki/wre-0.7.2-on-ubuntu-server-edition-7.04-feisty
00:41 < SynQ> I don't see the 'versions' tab any longer
00:41 <@rizen> it doesn't say versions, it says "history"
00:41 <@rizen> but you should still see it
00:41 < SynQ> or does it have to do with the epiphany browser
00:41 < SynQ> hmm
00:41 <@rizen> as long as your browser is YUI compatible
00:42 < SynQ> :)
00:42 < SynQ> lets see if iceweasel does a better job
00:43 < SynQ> ah
00:43 < SynQ> that helps
00:43 < SynQ> now I do indeed see the 'history' tab again
00:43 <@rizen> whats with you and crazy browsers?
00:43 < SynQ> JT: do you know if sourceforge allows for 500MB+ files?
00:44 <@rizen> why not just use firefox?
00:44 <@rizen> yes
00:44 < SynQ> I installed debian etch yesterday
00:44 <@rizen> i know it allows over 500mb
00:44 <@rizen> i don't know how much over
00:44 <@rizen> but i've downloaded isos from there
00:44 < SynQ> I'm having a great time with KVM
00:44 <@rizen> so it must allow up to about 600mb
00:44 < SynQ> I'll try and get a 'webgui wre pre-installed' image done this weekend
00:45 <@rizen> what is kvm?
00:45 < SynQ> kvm is qemu with amd-v or intel-vt support
00:45 <@rizen> i'm almost done with the new WRE, just trying to work out the final kinks
00:45 < SynQ> using the virtualisation stuff
00:45 <@rizen> then i'll start compiling it for various platforms
00:45 < SynQ> oh
00:45 < SynQ> can I help?
00:45 < SynQ> and debug them
00:45 <@rizen> with the compiling yes
00:46 < SynQ> once you've compiled some
00:46 < SynQ> compiling is fine too
00:46 <@rizen> oh debugging too
00:46 < SynQ> ProcoliX has ordered some kick-ass hardware
00:46 <@rizen> but i need to make sure it works from my point of view before i give it to other people
00:46 <@rizen> if i can't even make it work
00:46 < SynQ> :)
00:46 <@rizen> you definitely won't
00:46 <@rizen> =)
00:46 < SynQ> sure you can
00:46 < SynQ> if you can't, just blame it on me :)
00:46 <@rizen> the new API is going to be marvelous for automated provisioning
00:47 < SynQ> that sounds great
00:47 < SynQ> gimme gimme
00:47 < SynQ> I talked to Arjen today
00:47 <@rizen> so you're all for the stable/unstable branch thing eh?
00:47 <@rizen> oh yeah, what did he have to say?
00:47 < SynQ> and I promised Bart that next year we'll go to the wuc again
00:47 <@rizen> next year!
00:47 < SynQ> he was visiting Oqapi
00:47 < SynQ> yups
00:47 < SynQ> next year!
00:47 <@rizen> what makes you think we'll even have one next year
00:48 < SynQ> I can just feel it
00:48 <@rizen> hehe
00:48 < SynQ> and yes I am all for the stable/unstable branch thing
00:48 <@rizen> we basically have to break even from year to year in order to have the next year
00:48 < SynQ> what's more, I'm sending Bart to a perl-course
00:49 <@rizen> now that i've heard all those people say they are for it
00:49 <@rizen> i'm going to definitely *not* do it
00:49 < SynQ> huh
00:49 <@rizen> i can't give the people what they want
00:49 < SynQ> why not?
00:49 < SynQ> ah
00:49 <@rizen> that wouldn't be very JTish
00:49 <@rizen> SynQ is the man of the people, not rizen
00:49 < SynQ> maybe I'll have to *USE* more *EMPHASIS* on all my important *WORDS* then. >:)
00:49 <@rizen> hehe
00:49 < SynQ> in JRA style
00:50 <@rizen> or just drink more coffee
00:50 < SynQ> get more sleep
00:50 <@rizen> everything is better with more coffee
00:50 <@rizen> or should i say more caffine
00:50 < SynQ> my wife says hi
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00:51 < SynQ> you want to know about the kick-ass hardware?
00:51 <@rizen> sure
00:51 <@rizen> hi back
00:51 < SynQ> It's blades
00:51 <@rizen> and shouldn't you be in bed?
00:52 <@rizen> it's got to be midnight or later there
00:52 < SynQ> two chassis with 6 dual processor quad core xeon's with each blade 16Gb of ram
00:52 < SynQ> its 8 to midnight
00:52 <@rizen> 16GB?
00:52 < SynQ> sure
00:53 <@rizen> 8 cores?
00:53 <@rizen> that's huge
00:53 < SynQ> indeed
00:53 <@rizen> this is for webgui?
00:53 <@rizen> or something else?
00:53 < SynQ> it's only the beginning
00:53 < SynQ> it's for more sleep and less worries
00:53 < SynQ> using virtual machines for everything
00:53 < SynQ> and cluster technologies
00:54 < SynQ> but yes, we are going to run WebGUI on it too
00:54 <@rizen> i find that going much further than dual xeon with 2gig of ram is a waste for webgui unless you use a san with each machine
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00:54 <@rizen> cuz you run into spindle speed problems
00:54 < SynQ> I have to help make the bed, be back in a jiffy
00:54 < SynQ> vm's are going to have max 1Gb
00:55 < SynQ> and yes we are going to get a SAN or SAN-like solution too
00:55 <@rizen> let me know what you go with on that front, cuz i'm looking for new storage technologies and techniques
00:56 < perlmonkey2> me too
00:57 < SynQ> can I post it on the dev-list?
00:57 < perlmonkey2> Coraid has AoE, looks like you can do 24Tb for about $7k using WD 1Tb SATAs
00:58 <@rizen> you can put whatever  you want on the dev list
00:58 <@rizen> especially porn
01:04 < SynQ> oeh
01:04 < SynQ> hardware porn
01:06 < SynQ> perlmonkey2: it's not the size that matters
01:06 < SynQ> and WD 1Tb SATA's are dead slow
01:07 < SynQ> we now have a 16 disk 500Gb setup with an areca raid controller for backups
01:07 < SynQ> but that is not what you want for SAN
01:08 < perlmonkey2> A SAS SAN just seems like an incredible waste of money.  Is the performance increase worth it?
01:08 < SynQ> I don't know, that depends on the setup I guess
01:09 < SynQ> what I'm looking for is a good combination of maintainability with performance
01:09 < perlmonkey2> Tom's had WD rated faster than the 750 barracudas....but then the barracudas aren't that fast either.
01:09 < SynQ> In short, a system that just always works
01:09 < perlmonkey2> hah, good luck with that.
01:09 < SynQ> thanks, I'll need it
01:09 < SynQ> :)
01:10 < SynQ> I think the trick will be done by spending a lot of money on it
01:10 < SynQ> we are also in the process of negotiating about a dual datacenter setup
01:10 < perlmonkey2> SynQ: Yes, high performance SAN's seem to start at about 30K just to get into the game.
01:11 < SynQ> the blades I just ordered are also in that ballpark
01:11 < perlmonkey2> I'll stick with my slow 24TB for $7K Ata/ethernet :)
01:12 < SynQ> what raid controllers are in that system?
01:13 < perlmonkey2> I couldn't make blades make sense for our systems.  Just cheaper to build power workstations.
01:13 < perlmonkey2> Coraid has their own controllers....doesn't say who they use.
01:14 < perlmonkey2> Their "Advanced RAID Controller" uses "Coraid's RAIDShield(TM)".  Hmm....sounds kind of fishy to me.
01:14 < SynQ> it does
01:15 < SynQ> for us blades make sense since they are cheaper then employees are
01:15 < SynQ> and they promise less hardware fiddlin'
01:15 < perlmonkey2> That makes cents to me :)
01:16 < perlmonkey2> But I'm a one man show, and I need to squeeze as much cpu power as I can out of each dollar.  Plus the uni picks up the air conditioning and electricty tab on our closet.
01:18 < SynQ> you have no girlfriend/wife?
01:18 < perlmonkey2> me?
01:19  * SynQ looks around
01:19 < SynQ> yes, you! :)
01:19 < perlmonkey2> What makes you think that?
01:19  * perlmonkey2 is curious
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01:19 < SynQ> maintaining boxes costs us a lot of time, time that is better spent on finding out better software configurations
01:20 < SynQ> plus, our data-center bill is +3000 euro's a month now
01:20 < SynQ> if I wasn't married I'd spend a lot more time on my job
01:21 < SynQ> and even now I've just been asked to 'get away from the computer and come to bed please'
01:21 < perlmonkey2> I'm trying to figure out how to find another job, where I can telecommute.  I work waaaaay too much at this one.
01:21 < perlmonkey2> hah
01:21 < SynQ> its half past midnight here
01:22 < perlmonkey2> SynQ, our grant sponsor makes that arguement all the time about hardware being cheaper than my time or any employee.  But it just pains me to buy expensive Dell/IBM when I don't really believe it saves configuration time.
01:22 < perlmonkey2> But it sounds late there.  Perhaps your wife has a point :)
01:23 < SynQ> I've bought supermicro blade servers, they were not that expensive as dell or ibm or hp blade servers
01:23 < SynQ> I'm not done drinking my beer yet
01:23 < perlmonkey2> heh
01:24 < SynQ> since I only drink during the weekends lately I'm now enjoying the start of the weekend
01:24 < SynQ> with a nice belgian one
01:25 < SynQ> and I haven't finished it yet
01:25 < perlmonkey2> Hmm....these supermicro's come in dual-proc quad core.....so far so good.
01:25 < SynQ> jt: I think you should photoshop a feather on yungs 'the people behind webgui' photo
01:26 < SynQ> 16Gb per blade is the best bang for the buck
01:26 < SynQ> and then we are going to run KVM on it
01:27 < SynQ> which is a vm software thing just like xen or vmware
01:27 <@rizen> what do you mean "photoshop feather"
01:27 <@rizen> you mean edit the image to put a feather in it?
01:28 < SynQ> that :)
01:28 < SynQ> the webgui indian
01:28 <@rizen> to make him look native american?
01:28 < SynQ> that is a very politically correct word for it yes
01:29 < SynQ> not very JT-ish
01:29 < SynQ> damn, I wish I could come to the wuc
01:29 < SynQ> just for the 'stump the chump' sessions
01:31 <@rizen> why can't you?
01:31 <@rizen> it would be great to see you. it's been a couple years
01:31 < SynQ> It's quite expensive
01:31 <@rizen> i think the last time was when i came to holland, wasn't it?
01:32 < SynQ> I've just spent all the money on servers ;)
01:32 <@rizen> that's true...but it's worth it to see me
01:32 < SynQ> you are probably right
01:32 <@rizen> =)
01:32 < SynQ> as allways
01:32 <@rizen> besides, if you want to save a few bucks, you can stay at my house
01:32 < SynQ> but last time in vegas I was a bit sick all the time
01:32 <@rizen> it's only about 4 blocks from the hotel
01:32 < SynQ> hmmm, tempting
01:33 <@rizen> i'm not staying at the hotel this year either for the first time in wuc history
01:33 < SynQ> what is the value of one karma point on the plainblack site?
01:33 <@rizen> since it's so close
01:33 <@rizen> you mean a $ value?
01:33 <@rizen> it doesn't have one
01:34 < SynQ> no, I mean how many nights can I stay at your house for x karma points?
01:34 <@rizen> hehe
01:34 <@rizen> you can stay at my house for as many nights as you're stateside
01:34 < SynQ> now that would be great value
01:34 <@rizen> no karma required
01:34 < SynQ> hmm
01:35 < SynQ> damn, you are making it hard for me
01:35 < SynQ> I'll reconsider this week
01:35 <@rizen> if bart will sleep on the couch, he can stay too
01:35 < SynQ> recalculate :)
01:35 < SynQ> ah
01:35 <@rizen> i only have one spare bedroom
01:35 < SynQ> bart is getting his driving license soon (I hope)
01:35 <@rizen> sarah and i are in one, you get the other, and bart can stay on one of our two couches
01:36 < SynQ> I'll discuss it with Bart on monday
01:36 <@rizen> he doesn't have one?
01:36 < SynQ> nope
01:36 < SynQ> but he will have soon
01:36 < SynQ> and he's loving it
01:36 < SynQ> driving
01:36 <@rizen> then he can drive your car like a crazy person...similar to you
01:36 < SynQ> oeh
01:36 < SynQ> I hope not
01:36 < SynQ> with the 4,4 litre V8
01:37 < SynQ> it's very delicate to drive, my car, before you know it you are driving 200 miles an hour
01:37 < SynQ> it's a racing machine
01:37 < SynQ> BMW 540i touring
01:38 < SynQ> but hey, let's not talk about cars
01:38 < SynQ> lets talk about that stable/development stuff
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01:38 < SynQ> why wouldn't you do it? seriously
01:38 < SynQ> what are the arguments against it?
01:41 < SynQ> you don't want to talk about it?
01:45 <@rizen> sorry
01:45 <@rizen> was on phone
01:45 < SynQ> ah
01:45 <@rizen> i thought you were going to be?
01:45 <@rizen> bed?
01:45 < SynQ> I give myself 15 more minutes
01:45 <@rizen> why i wouldn't do it is that it's a lot more work for us
01:45 < SynQ> dunno what time it is over there
01:46 < SynQ> and what day for that matter
01:46 <@rizen> 15 to 6pm
01:46 <@rizen> friday
01:46 < SynQ> ah
01:46 < SynQ> 7 hours early
01:46 <@rizen> or 17:45 in eurospeak
01:46 < SynQ> :)
01:46 < SynQ> eurospeak
01:46 < SynQ> and with us you mean all plainblack staff and all other developers
01:47 <@rizen> anyway the only reason not to do it is that it's more work for pb
01:47 <@rizen> no it's really just more for pb
01:47 < SynQ> ah
01:47 <@rizen> because the "more" is part of release management
01:47 <@rizen> and pb does all release management
01:47 < SynQ> I know
01:47 < SynQ> and I think you are right
01:48 < SynQ> but then again, if getting stable/development in place gets webgui on a better level that will probably also be mostly benificial to PB
01:48 <@rizen> preaction has been trying to convince me to build an entirely new upgrade system that relies upon patch/diff instead of upgrade files
01:48 < SynQ> preaction?
01:48 <@rizen> you're right...some clients will be happier for sure, and that's beneficial to us
01:49 <@rizen> preaction = doug bell = one of my programmers
01:49 < SynQ> I will be a lot happier
01:49 <@rizen> no offense but you're not a client
01:49 <@rizen> you're a user
01:49 < SynQ> :)
01:49 <@rizen> big difference in my world
01:49 < SynQ> didn't I just order a few books from plainblack?
01:49 <@rizen> i don't know, did you?
01:49 < SynQ> ProcoliX did
01:50 < SynQ> they arrived in a half drowned state
01:50 < SynQ> :)
01:50 <@rizen> hmmm. i haven't seen that order go through..but i don't monitor it that closely anymore
01:50 < SynQ> but bart is taking that up with lulu
01:50 <@rizen> i was going to say, they never even touch our hands
01:50 < SynQ> I'm probably going to order some more books soon
01:50 < SynQ> does that make me a client?
01:50 <@rizen> i suppose so
01:50 <@rizen> a small one
01:50 <@rizen> =)
01:50 < SynQ> hehe
01:51 < SynQ> would it help if I got a subscription to one of your 'small hosting' packages?
01:51 <@rizen> it's sort of weighted like this for me: user / contributor / client / rockstar
01:51 < SynQ> ah
01:51 < SynQ> ok
01:52 <@rizen> Sarah eagerly awaits your arrival
01:53 <@rizen> and she humbly requests you bring your wife
01:53 <@rizen> =)
01:53 < SynQ> so a client that pays pb 20 a month is more important than a contributor?
01:53 < SynQ> uh
01:53 < SynQ> bring my wife
01:53 < SynQ> hmm
01:54 < SynQ> good idea
01:54 < SynQ> I'll ask her
01:54 <@rizen> depends upon what the contributor does
01:54 < SynQ> the contributor creates half done wiki pages :)
01:54 <@rizen> once they've made it to "people behind webgui" status
01:54 <@rizen> or contributor of the year
01:55 <@rizen> then they're above client
01:55 <@rizen> so i should probably do
01:55 < SynQ> above the 20$ client?
01:56 <@rizen> user / contributor /  < $1000 yr client / pbwg / < $5k yr client / contributor of the year / >$5k yr client / rockstar
01:56 <@rizen> hehe
01:56 <@rizen> but that's much more confusing
01:56 < SynQ> that is much clearer to me :)
01:56 < SynQ> what is pbwg?
01:56 <@rizen> people behind webgui
01:56 <@rizen> like yung
01:56 < SynQ> ah
01:57 <@rizen> althought technically yung is both pbwg and client
01:57 < SynQ> ok
01:57 < SynQ> not to be harsh, but just to be sure...
01:59 <@rizen> incidentally, you're more than contributor or client
01:59 < SynQ> martin (who has made contributor of the year) is more important to you than I am, since you see me more like a 'user' even though ProcoliX has payed for quite a significat part of martin's his time that got him to be contributor of the year?
01:59 <@rizen> cuz you're friend
01:59 <@rizen> and friend isn't in that list
01:59 < SynQ> :)
01:59 < SynQ> friend is above that list?
02:00 < SynQ> not to be placed in any category?
02:00 < SynQ> isn't martin friend too?
02:00 <@rizen> friend can't be defined by that list
02:00 <@rizen> because it has nothing to do with time or money
02:00 <@rizen> that's a time/money list
02:01 < SynQ> to be friend you first have to be able to insult you without getting kicked in the face? ;)
02:01 <@rizen> and yes, martin, and most of the dutch team for that matter is in that friend category
02:01 <@rizen> indeed
02:01 < SynQ> ok
02:01 < SynQ> now I understand fully
02:01 <@rizen> there was a time i used to kick you in the face often
02:01 <@rizen> =)
02:01 < SynQ> how much does rockstar cost?
02:01 < SynQ> ;)
02:01 <@rizen> it starts at $30k per year
02:01 < SynQ> man, that is almost for free
02:02 <@rizen> but we don't have anyone using that small of a rockstar client
02:02 <@rizen> contract
02:02 < SynQ> that is odd
02:02 <@rizen> i believe all of them are >$100k
02:02 <@rizen> currently
02:02 < SynQ> all one of them?
02:02 <@rizen> 3
02:02 < SynQ> gosh
02:03 <@rizen> all 3 of them
02:03 < SynQ> now I'm sure there will be a wuc next year :)
02:03 <@rizen> rockstar has nothing to do with wuc, unless they include wuc tickets in their rockstar contract
02:03 <@rizen> which so far none have
02:03 < SynQ> damn
02:04 <@rizen> its funny cuz they each always have at least one person show up
02:04 < SynQ> If I make more than EUR 100000 per year I'll want to get one of them rockstar contracts
02:04 <@rizen> oh please...you make more than that
02:04 <@rizen> you're a super successful hosting company
02:04 < SynQ> sure I do
02:04 <@rizen> i don't mean you personally
02:04 < SynQ> that is why I drive a 10 year old BMW
02:05 <@rizen> i mean you ProcoliX
02:05 < SynQ> turnover yes
02:05 < SynQ> but profit
02:05 <@rizen> oh i c
02:05 <@rizen> yeah profit is a different story
02:05 < SynQ> ProcoliX turnover this year will probably be around 300K euro's
02:06 <@rizen> we'll be more than that, but we do more than just hosting too
02:06 < SynQ> and PB has more employees
02:06 <@rizen> yeah, our payroll scares me
02:06 < SynQ> we have 4,6 FTE starting october 1st
02:06 < SynQ> now we have 3,6
02:07 < SynQ> how much FTE has PB got?
02:07 <@rizen> what is 3,6?
02:07 <@rizen> 3 full and 6 part?
02:07 < SynQ> that is 4 people working 3,6 full time hours
02:07 < SynQ> FTE = Full Time Employee
02:07 <@rizen> we have 8 full time and 1 part time, plus the gaggle of contractors that we hire for project work
02:08 < SynQ> full time is 36 up to 40hours a week
02:08 < SynQ> we almost don't do contractors
02:08 <@rizen> for us FTE = salaried
02:08 < SynQ> ah ok
02:08 < SynQ> 8 is a lot
02:08 <@rizen> we did have 9
02:08 <@rizen> but one quit a month ago
02:09 <@rizen> we're seeing how the ebb and tide of project work goes before we hire another
02:09 < SynQ> your annual turnover should be arount 1Million a year
02:09 <@rizen> i don't discuss such numbers publicly
02:09 <@rizen> =)
02:09 < SynQ> I do
02:10 < SynQ> they are publicly available at the end of the year anyway
02:10 <@rizen> really?
02:10 <@rizen> not for us
02:10 < SynQ> I have to publish them at the chaimber of commerce
02:10 <@rizen> ah
02:10 <@rizen> we're not a member of the chamber of commerce
02:10 <@rizen> so we don't have to
02:10 < SynQ> so I might as well tell it to anybody
02:10 < SynQ> plus, I don't do in secrets
02:10 < SynQ> I am an open book
02:11 < SynQ> that is so much easier
02:11 <@rizen> i don't want to keep secrets, but i have customers who prefer that we keep that data private
02:11 < SynQ> and turnover doesn't say anything about your profits
02:11 < SynQ> ah
02:11 <@rizen> as they contribute significant amounts of money to our bottom line
02:11 < SynQ> I'm not telling you anything about how much a costumer pays us too
02:11 < SynQ> I am not allowed to
02:12 < SynQ> but I can tell you ballpark turnover figures
02:12 < SynQ> so I can also tell you that I'm spending about 30% of our anual turnover on hardware
02:12 <@rizen> my goal is to double our total revenue each year
02:13 <@rizen> for the first 5 i did it, and i'm on track for year 6
02:13 < SynQ> revenue = profit?
02:13 <@rizen> revenue = turnover
02:13 < SynQ> ah
02:13 < SynQ> ok
02:13 < SynQ> I want to explode in the next two years
02:13 <@rizen> our datacenter bill is around $7k per month
02:13 < SynQ> quadruple the turnover in 2008
02:14 < SynQ> is that including renting all servers?
02:14 <@rizen> yup
02:14 < SynQ> that is ok
02:14 < SynQ> not too expensive
02:14 <@rizen> no, all in all it's pretty inexpensive
02:14 < SynQ> for me that is not so easy to say
02:15 < SynQ> since we own most of the servers
02:15 <@rizen> but that's what you specialize in too
02:15 < SynQ> but I guess it's about 20k euro per month
02:15 <@rizen> i'm certain we don't do things as high end as you
02:15 < SynQ> no
02:15 < SynQ> that is way to much
02:15 < SynQ> more like 15K
02:15 < SynQ> the theaters are great to do
02:15 < SynQ> peaks of 3000 visitors +
02:16 < SynQ> all wanting to order a ticket for one particular show
02:16 < SynQ> and with 3000 I mean 3000 per second
02:16 < SynQ> requests
02:17 <@rizen> wow
02:17 < SynQ> and them servers are still doing nothing :)
02:17 <@rizen> amazing
02:17 < SynQ> since it's all php code
02:17 < SynQ> and load-balanced over 4 systems
02:17 < SynQ> but I'd like to do that with webgui next year
02:18 < SynQ> on our new blade infrastructure
02:18 < SynQ> but hey
02:19 < SynQ> it's 15 past 1
02:19 < SynQ> I should really go to bed
02:19 <@rizen> that's what i want to do with the pure perl stack
02:19 <@rizen> yes you should
02:19 < SynQ> pure perl sounds good
02:19 < SynQ> and then compiled pure perl
02:19 < SynQ> that sounds even better
02:19 <@rizen> bah
02:19 <@rizen> sweet dreams
02:19 < SynQ> thanks
02:20 < SynQ> chat to you tomorrow?
02:20 <@rizen> i'll prbably be around
02:20 < SynQ> somewhere around the same time?
02:20 <@rizen> working on wre all weekend
02:20 < SynQ> or earlier?
02:20 < SynQ> ok
02:20 <@rizen> i'll probably be on all day all weekend
02:20 < SynQ> I'll get you access to some of my newly created vm's
02:21 < SynQ> I've got 3 AMD X2 systems with 4Gb ram
02:21 < SynQ> :)
02:21 < SynQ> just to play with
02:21 <@rizen> nice
02:21 < SynQ> although not behind too big network connections
02:21 < SynQ> but then again
02:21 < SynQ> enough to compile the new WRE on
02:21 < SynQ> ok
02:21 < SynQ> nite
02:21 < SynQ> ~
02:24 < perlmonkey2> YUI Compressor 1.0 Released.
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06:22 < SDuensin> Anybody alive?
06:24 <@rizen> indeed
06:25 < SDuensin> Hey bud.
06:25 < SDuensin> I can't for the life of me figure out how to generate a set of nested <ul><li></li></ul> type stuff for a navigation template.
06:26 <@rizen> it's very tricky
06:27 <@rizen> although i believe that steve made a default template that comes with webgui that does it
06:27 < SDuensin> I've yet to find it if so.
06:27 <@rizen> it's there
06:27 <@rizen> do this
06:27 <@rizen> go to asset manager > search
06:27 <@rizen> select template as the class time
06:27 <@rizen> type
06:27 <@rizen> and search for "list"
06:28 <@rizen> i think that will findit
06:28 < SDuensin> Oh, and why does WebGUI completely blow the template in the admin menus?
06:28 < SDuensin> Happens all the time!
06:30 <@rizen> i have no idea what you've just said, let alone what you're talking about
06:30 < SDuensin> hehehe
06:30 < SDuensin> I can send you a screenshot.
06:32 <@rizen> if it's a bug why not just post it
06:32 < SDuensin> I don't know if it's a bug.  :-P
06:34 < SDuensin> Not finding that nav template.
06:35 < SDuensin> Maybe I just did.  Reading.
06:44 <@rizen> [ WebGUI 7.4.3-beta / 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://webgui.org/wuc
06:44 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.3-beta / 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://webgui.org/wuc
06:45 <@rizen> incidentally steve says it's easier if you enable HTML::Template::Expr 
06:46  * SDuensin will take your word for it.
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15:49 < danny_mk> Well, I finally found the bug!
15:50 < danny_mk> it helps to read the API perldocs :-)
15:52 < danny_mk> anyway, I was asked to provide a website where WebGUI users can see the module in action.
15:53 < danny_mk> I know my system would not take a heavy load if it got too many hits.  Is there a WebGUI testing system where I can install this module for user tests?
16:00 < danny_mk> brb
16:13 < SynQ> how much is heavy load?
16:13 < SynQ> what kind of load do you expect
16:13 < SynQ> and how long should that site run?
16:14 < danny_mk> well, my 4 websites are only running off one server and although the server can probably take a lot of hits I just wanted to make sure the system 
16:14 < danny_mk> can take it.
16:15 < SynQ> ok
16:15 < danny_mk> in my case I don't know what would be considered a heavy load for my server, I have never tested the sysems performance
16:15 < SynQ> when do you need it up and running?
16:15 < SynQ> and how long for
16:16 < danny_mk> I bet if it ran for a couple weeks that would be long enough. 
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16:17 < danny_mk> OpenId is in its infancy stage but sooner rather than later would be best
16:18 < SynQ> what are the specs of the server you have now?
16:19 < danny_mk> You know what, I am going to take a chance.  I will setup a new webgui website where the users can see it in action.
16:19 < SynQ> that's the spirit
16:20 < danny_mk> I will do that sometime this afternoon.  It occurs to me that I have never tested that server anyway and this is as good a time as any :-)
16:21 < SynQ> you could also try and hit your server with ab before you do that
16:21 < danny_mk> ab?
16:21 < SynQ> apache bench
16:22 < danny_mk> ah!
16:22 < danny_mk> cool, will do that.  Thank you for the suggestions.
16:22 < SynQ> no prob
16:22 < danny_mk> have to go feed the animals now.  Take care.
16:22 < SynQ> yea, I'm gonna walk the dog too
16:22 < SynQ> bye
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18:05 <@rizen> synq, you shouldn't talk about your wife that way
18:24 < SynQ> hehe
18:25 < SynQ> I actually do have a dog
18:25 < SynQ> good morning by the way
18:25 < SynQ> I've just opened a beer :)
18:25 <@rizen> have one for me
18:25 <@rizen> i'm going to need it
18:26 < SynQ> why is that?
18:26 < SynQ> oh, I've been reading the backlog
18:26 <@rizen> well i've got a full day of WRE debugging and compiling ahead of me
18:26 < SynQ> I read your arguments for not having a vmware image
18:26 <@rizen> and our server is being attacked by the search engines 
18:27 < SynQ> now I am in the process of creating kvm as a webgui imageplatfrom
18:27 < SynQ> platform even
18:27 <@rizen> yahoo, msn, google, and a few small ones have been all simultaneously indexing our site for the past 10 hours
18:27 < SynQ> nice
18:27 <@rizen> no
18:27 < SynQ> not?
18:27 <@rizen> it's killing the server
18:27 < SynQ> is it on a single server?
18:27 <@rizen> yes
18:28 < SynQ> aww
18:28 <@rizen> the problem is mainly spindle speed
18:28 < SynQ> I understand
18:28 < SynQ> what os / distro are you using?
18:29 <@rizen> rhel
18:29 < SynQ> and is it freely downloadable/installable?
18:29 <@rizen> there's centos
18:29 <@rizen> which is the same thing
18:29 <@rizen> and free
18:29 < SynQ> but you're using the paid stuff
18:29 <@rizen> yup
18:29 < SynQ> ah ok
18:29 < SynQ> that's too bad then
18:29 <@rizen> we get security patches faster 
18:30 <@rizen> and we get the paid version for free from our data center anyway
18:30 < SynQ> if it were free I could try and supply you with a vm to compile stuff
18:30 <@rizen> huh??
18:30 < SynQ> virtual machine
18:30 <@rizen> why do i need a vm to compile stuff?
18:30 <@rizen> i already have a vmware server farm for compiling stuff
18:31 < SynQ> ah
18:31 < SynQ> ok
18:31 < SynQ> never mind
18:31 < SynQ> is there any chance I get to see that nice new WRE in the coming few days?
18:36 <@rizen> that's why i'm working so hard on it
18:36 < SynQ> ok
18:36 < SynQ> don't let me distract you then
18:37 < SynQ> I'll keep on working on a kvm image for webgui
18:37 < SynQ> using wre 0.7.2
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21:00 <@rizen> SynQ if you're around i could use some assistance
21:00 <@rizen> I'm getting [Sat Aug 18 12:45:30 2007] [notice] child pid 6055 exit signal Bus error (10) in my modperl error log on the new WRE
21:00 <@rizen> and i can't figure out what that means
21:00 <@rizen> it was running at one point
21:01 < SynQ> hmm
21:09 < SynQ> any google entry I find about that is talking about out of memory problems
21:10 <@preaction_> i'm finding ones about memory hardware faults or other hardware faults
21:10 <@rizen> the only entry i found about it says that i'm using an apache module that was compiled for a different version of apache than i'm using
21:10 <@rizen> but everything was compiled at the same time
21:10 <@rizen> from scratch
21:10 < SynQ> I'd bet on the memory stuff
21:10 <@preaction_> that'd cause sigsegv, not sigbus
21:10 < SynQ> either you have broken memory or you are out of memory
21:10 <@rizen> so my box is failing?
21:10 <@preaction_> run memtest86 to find out
21:10 < SynQ> dunno, but it wouldn't hurt to run a memtest
21:11 <@rizen> this is my mac
21:11 <@rizen> can't run tht
21:11 < SynQ> aw
21:11 <@rizen> however, i'll take a look at memory whilst trying to start it
21:11 <@rizen> see what that turns up
21:11 <@rizen> thanks for the tip
21:13 <@rizen> my machine is reporting 130MB free whilst trying to start it
21:13 <@rizen> i'm going to try rebooting though, cuz i haven't done that in a while and this machine gets funny when i don't
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21:15 < SynQ> hmm
21:15 < SynQ> funny machine :)
21:15 < SynQ> maybe you should get a new one
21:17 <@rizen> yeah, i need a new one
21:17 <@rizen> but i'm waiting for the new OSX to come out in october
21:17 <@rizen> before buying one
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21:25 < SynQ> hi there mr. smith
21:25 <@rizen> howdy
21:25 < SynQ> did the rebooting help?
21:25 <@rizen> nope, but my machine is running faster now
21:25 < SynQ> grin
21:25 <@rizen> and shows far more ram available
21:26 <@rizen> i have another idea though
21:26 < SynQ> which is?
21:26 <@rizen> i'll tell you if it works
21:32 <@rizen> nevermind it does work now
21:32 <@rizen> at least in the sense that it starts up
21:37 <@rizen> i'm still getting the error though
21:37 <@rizen> even though it's running
21:38 <@rizen> i think i'm going to have to recompile at this point
21:38 <@rizen> no other ideas
21:47 < SynQ> hmm
21:47 < SynQ> I don't know what your setup is
21:47 <@rizen> setup = fucked up
21:48 < SynQ> I'm struggling with wre 0.7.2 now
21:48 < SynQ> but I guess you are not really interested in that
21:48 < SynQ> http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/wre-0.7.2-on-ubuntu-server-edition-7.04-feisty
21:48 < SynQ> it seems ubuntu doesn't recognize the 'source' command
21:49 <@rizen> yeah
21:49 <@rizen> someone said that if you edit the first line of
21:49 <@rizen> the /data/wre/prereqs/mysql/share/mysql/mysql.server script
21:49 <@rizen> to be #!/bin/bash
21:49 <@rizen> that fixes it
21:50 < SynQ> ok, lets try
21:50 < SynQ> that is not in the wiki btw :)
21:50 <@rizen> that's a bug in MySQL on Ubuntu
21:50 <@rizen> i don't maintain the wiki
21:50 <@rizen> complain to the community
21:50 < SynQ> :)
21:50 < SynQ> it is in the wiki now
21:51 < SynQ> I am the community ;)
21:51 <@rizen> indeed
21:52 < SynQ> now I'm going to eat first
21:52 < SynQ> bbl
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02:41 <@rizen> i just shaved 13mb off the WRE's compressed size
02:41 <@rizen> and 60mb off it's deployed size
02:41 <@preaction> nice
02:43 <@rizen> the WRE no longer comes with documentation for all the utilities
02:43 <@rizen> like the Apache manual
02:43 <@rizen> in order to do that
02:43 <@rizen> and i've also eliminated things like the mysql benchmark suite
02:43 <@rizen> but they can use the wdk if they want full documentation
02:45 <@rizen> i take it back, it's 75MB of fthe deployed size
02:45 <@rizen> not 60
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12:27 < SynQ> 75M off the deployment size, that is absolutely fantastic!
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14:34 < SynQ> jt, did you solve the mod_perl problem?
18:10 <@rizen> yes i did
18:10 <@rizen> sorry, getting a really late start this morning
18:10 <@rizen> the recompile fixed everything
18:11 <@rizen> i can't figure out what's going on
18:12 <@rizen> there must be some new major site linking to plainblack.com
18:12 <@rizen> because the search engines keep resweeping the site every day
18:12 <@rizen> it's been going on for 3 days in a row now
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22:30 < SynQ> rizen: I think that is not bad, but good news
22:30 <@rizen> it is bad in that my server is at a constant load of 10.0
22:31 < SynQ> that is not very good indeed
22:31 < SynQ> besides a new laptop you need a new server too ;)
22:31 <@rizen> this is a huge server
22:31 <@rizen> and normally, the load is at about 0.1
22:32 <@rizen> it's only since these search engines all decided to hit me all at once, and for a really long time
22:32 < SynQ> if you don't like it use a better robots.txt
22:32 <@rizen> they aren't following the one i do have
22:33 <@rizen> besides
22:33 <@rizen> it's not so much that it's being indexed
22:33 <@rizen> but that it's being indexed by 10+ engines at the same time
22:33 < SynQ> hmm
22:33 <@rizen> and that they're doing it all day long every day
22:33 < SynQ> could you fit all of the indexable part of the plainblack site in memory?
22:34 <@rizen> no
22:34 < SynQ> perhaps cluster it?
22:34 < SynQ> or is that too much work?
22:34 <@rizen> it's too much expense
22:34 <@rizen> just for this little period of time
22:34 <@rizen> like i said we usually are running at 0.1
22:35 < SynQ> do you think the search engines will go away again?
22:35 <@rizen> i would hope so
22:35 <@rizen> i'd just like to know why they all became interested at the same time
22:35 <@rizen> and why they keep indexing the same shit over and over
22:35 < SynQ> perhaps the cms contest?
22:36 <@rizen> we're not even listed on their site
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22:39 < SynQ> ok
22:39 <@rizen> well whatever
22:39 < SynQ> if I search for site:plainblack.com i get mainly k3b.plainblack.com
22:39 <@rizen> not much i can do about it except to block them at the firewall
22:39 < SynQ> or use apache rate limiter
22:40 <@rizen> we host k3b's site
22:40 <@rizen> but that's on a different server
22:41 < SynQ> oh
22:41 < SynQ> do you know about this site: http://www.visualwebgui.com ?
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22:42 <@rizen> yes i do
22:42 <@rizen> it's a .net based ajax framework
22:42 <@rizen> the guy is from israel
22:45 <@rizen> i've decided to hate you
22:45 <@rizen> all you've got are questions, no answers
22:45 <@rizen> you're supposed to be the man with the plan, the guru, the oracle
22:45 < SynQ> am I
22:46 < SynQ> I'll give you some ansers, are you ready
22:46 < SynQ> 42
22:46 < SynQ> there you are
22:46 <@rizen> yup. i hate you.
22:46 <@rizen> this confirms it
22:47 < SynQ> ask me something then
22:47 < SynQ> so I can be an oracle
22:47 <@rizen> why are these search engiens all the sudden hitting me all at once?
22:47 <@rizen> and when will they stop?
22:47 <@rizen> hehe
22:48 < SynQ> I guess that your site is drawing more and more attention with this wiki on it
22:48 < SynQ> and they won't stop
22:48 < SynQ> it will only increase
22:48  * MrHairgrease goes to google with a pair of pliers
22:48 < SynQ> and that is not a bad thing
22:49 <@rizen> i don't really need a cluster, just a raid array
22:49 <+MrHairgrease> expect the search engine problem to be resolved soon
22:49 <@rizen> the reason the load is so high is that the drive is bottlenecking
22:51 <@rizen> on the good news front, the new wre is finally working
22:51 < SynQ> ah
22:51 < SynQ> great
22:51 <@rizen> i'm starting to compile on other platforms now
22:51 < SynQ> can't wait to get my hands on it
22:51 <@rizen> there's still some kinks to work out with the api, but it's good enough for you to start playing with
22:51 < SynQ> what platform do you have it compiled for now?
22:51 <@rizen> just OSX PPC
22:51 < SynQ> oeh
22:51 < SynQ> can I do the ubuntu compile?
22:52 < SynQ> the/a
22:52 <@rizen> i'll be working on OSX Intel and ubuntu and frebsd next
22:52 <@rizen> you can, but i've never tried it on ubuntu so i don't know how it will work
22:52 < SynQ> ok
22:52 <@rizen> are you saying you want the source tarball?
22:52 < SynQ> where can I get it?
22:52 < SynQ> yes
22:52 < SynQ> gimme gimme
22:52 <@rizen> i'll upload it to my personal server
22:53 < SynQ> a tarball before midnight
22:53 <@rizen> give me 10 min
22:54 < SynQ> I will
22:56 <@rizen> howdy mrhairgrease...and thanks for whacking google for me
22:57 <+MrHairgrease> howdy
22:57 <@rizen> how goes it?
22:58 < SynQ> wtf, jt knows greesch?
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> goodish
22:58 <@rizen> greesch?
22:58 <+MrHairgrease> never mind koen
22:59 < SynQ> hi martin
22:59 <+MrHairgrease> i'll explain the grease tapping night to you in madison
22:59 <+MrHairgrease> hi koen
22:59 < SynQ> wearing nothing but a white shirt
22:59 < SynQ> and blue jeans
23:00 <@rizen> i can't wait
23:00 < SynQ> MrHairgrease what airliner are you using to go to the wuc?
23:00 <+MrHairgrease> klm
23:00 < SynQ> ok
23:00 <+MrHairgrease> Dutch glory
23:00 < SynQ> that sounds good
23:00 <+MrHairgrease> and frre drinks
23:00 <+MrHairgrease> =)
23:00 <@rizen> so yeah, i took 75mb off the deployed size of the wre with this release
23:00 <@rizen> and that's after adding a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't in it in the 0.7 series
23:01 < SynQ> skimming the manuals from the wre is a good idea
23:01 <@rizen> unfortunately, the deployed size is still just over 200mb
23:01 <+MrHairgrease> synq, have you decided on attending the wuc yet
23:01 <+MrHairgrease> ?
23:01 < SynQ> I'm considering it
23:01 < SynQ> Tessa thinks I should go
23:02 <@rizen> ETA: 14 minutes until it's uploaded to a public server
23:02 <+MrHairgrease> me too
23:02 < SynQ> and staying with JT might cut a real big chunk of the costs
23:02 <@rizen> I think Tessa should come and you should stay
23:02 < SynQ> rizen great
23:02 < SynQ> hehe
23:02 <+MrHairgrease> you dirty bigamist!
23:03 < SynQ> Tessa thinks she should stay at home
23:03 <+MrHairgrease> you already have your own wife
23:03 <@rizen> i can always use two
23:03 <@rizen> just in case i break one
23:03 < SynQ> she'd like to come over some other time when there is no wuc
23:03 < SynQ> which kind of makes sense
23:03 <@rizen> absolutely
23:03 < SynQ> since at the wuc we'll be webgui-ing all the time
23:04 < SynQ> talking about noting else
23:04 <@rizen> well if you ever want to come explore the midwest, our house is open to you
23:04 <+MrHairgrease> ha
23:04 < SynQ> I'd like to come over with Tessa for a weak or two or so next year
23:04 < SynQ> that sounds very good to me
23:05 < SynQ> and I'll take Bart to the wuc if I can afford it
23:05 < SynQ> I probably can
23:05 < SynQ> I should
23:05 < SynQ> I mean... I'll blame myself for not going all year long if I don't
23:05 < SynQ> just like this year
23:05 <@rizen> indeed
23:05 < SynQ> and it's not in vegas
23:05 < SynQ> which is very good
23:05 < SynQ> vegas is smelly
23:06 < SynQ> and smokey
23:06 <@rizen> you'll like madison. it's kind of like a mini amsterdam
23:06 <@rizen> actually i shouldn't say that
23:06 <@rizen> it's nothing like it
23:06 < SynQ> hehe
23:06 <@rizen> but to me it feels like home
23:06 <@rizen> which amsterdam did
23:06 <+MrHairgrease> you have junkies and hookers in your backyard too?
23:07 < SynQ> is the wre done yet?
23:07 <@rizen> i told you 14 minutes
23:07 < SynQ> uploaded
23:07 < SynQ> 14 minutes sounds like a year
23:07 <@rizen> that was only 5 minutes ago
23:07 < SynQ> so still 2 years left
23:07 <@rizen> hehe
23:09 <@rizen> ETA 7minutes
23:09 < SynQ> ah
23:09 < SynQ> :)
23:09 <@rizen> i only have a 1mb up
23:10 <@rizen> so it takes forever
23:10 < SynQ> so do I at home
23:10 <@rizen> to upload sstuff
23:10 < SynQ> that's not so bad
23:10 <@rizen> the source tarball is 104mb
23:10 < SynQ> no prob
23:10 < SynQ> url?
23:11 <@rizen> i can't give you that until it's up
23:11 <@rizen> otherwise y ou might start downloading a broken file
23:11 <@rizen> =)
23:11 < SynQ> hehe
23:11 <@rizen> ETA: 3 min
23:13 <@rizen> ETA 1 min
23:13 < SynQ> woopy
23:14 <@rizen> http://jt.plainblack.com/mirrors/wre-0.8.0-alpha1-source.tar.gz
23:16 < SynQ> downloading now..
23:16 < SynQ> eta 6min
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
23:17 < SynQ> and I'll download it for debian (at home) too :)
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> i'm only getting 300-500k/s
23:17 < SynQ> and that is twice as fast
23:17 <+MrHairgrease> this takes forever =)
23:18 < SynQ> spoiled brat martin
23:18 < SynQ> JT, is that server bw-limited?
23:18 <@rizen> nope
23:19 < SynQ> not too fast a transatlantic pipe then
23:19 <+MrHairgrease> who cares
23:19 <+MrHairgrease> i have the new wre source!
23:19 <+MrHairgrease> woot
23:19 <@rizen> keep in mind guys that this is not 100% perfect yet
23:19 <+MrHairgrease> no worriesd
23:19 <@rizen> it's no where near release worthy
23:20 <+MrHairgrease> i'll blame it on koen
23:20 < SynQ> hehe
23:20 < SynQ> sure man, blame it on me
23:20 < SynQ> I can handle all that guilt :)
23:23 < SynQ> nice, it has a readme.txt :)
23:24 < SynQ> what shall I do...
23:24 < SynQ> just run ./build.sh --all 
23:24 < SynQ> or try parts first
23:25 < SynQ> ok
23:25 < SynQ> I'll try ./build.sh --perl first
23:27 <@rizen> do --all
23:27 <@rizen> that's what i do
23:29 < SynQ> it's doing --perl now on ubuntu
23:29 <@rizen> HUGE mistake
23:29 <@rizen> large
23:29 <@rizen> extra large
23:29 <@rizen> big
23:29 < SynQ> Building Complete And Successful
23:29 <@rizen> damn
23:29 < SynQ> not so bad
23:29 <@rizen> told you it was a mistake
23:29 < SynQ> k
23:29 <+MrHairgrease> quite fast too
23:29 <@rizen> hehe
23:29 < SynQ> now apache
23:29 <@rizen> no
23:29 <@rizen> you need to do utils first
23:30 < SynQ> ah
23:30 < SynQ> ok
23:30 <@rizen> that's why they are listed in the order they are
23:30 < SynQ> ah
23:30 <@rizen> that's the indended build order
23:30 < SynQ> I'll do them in order then :)
23:30 < SynQ> there go the utilities
23:32 < SynQ> lftp fails
23:32 <@rizen> i told you i haven't ever built it on ubuntu
23:32 < SynQ> I'm not blaming you
23:32 <@rizen> i am
23:32 < SynQ> just letting you know
23:33 <@rizen> tell me what needs modification in build.sh to get it to build if you would be so kind and can figure it out
23:33 < SynQ> I most certainly will
23:35 < SynQ> it's probably the requirements for them stuff
23:36 < SynQ> the error in this case is: g++ cannot create executables
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> synq
23:36 <+MrHairgrease> you'll need a whole slew of -devel pacakges
23:36 < SynQ> and you need You probably have not installed libstdc++ (or libg++)
23:36 < SynQ> I know
23:36 < SynQ> and I'll make a listing of them
23:36 <@rizen> yeah, would be good to put in the readme.txt
23:36 < SynQ> and provide JT with a nice ubuntu-readme.txt
23:37 < SynQ> for him to include
23:37 < SynQ> and a debian-readme.txt
23:37 < SynQ> but we shouldn't require more than is needed
23:37 <+MrHairgrease> also keep in mind the dash problem on ubuntu
23:38 <@rizen> nope
23:38 <@rizen> WRE 0.8 includes the latest MySQL
23:38 <@rizen> which supposedly fixes that problem
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> yeah i know
23:38 <+MrHairgrease> but it could be that other stuff fails too due to that shell
23:39 < SynQ> sure
23:40 < SynQ> but lets break down that wall when we hit it with the head
23:58 < SynQ> ok
23:58 < SynQ> I'm getting somewhere
23:59 < SynQ> but we are at Tessa's mom now
23:59 < SynQ> and I am obliged to come to bed now
23:59 <@rizen> later
23:59 < SynQ> JT, I'll send you an e-mail with my findings tomorrow
23:59 < SynQ> ok?
23:59 <@rizen> k
23:59 < SynQ> lets get this alpha in beta state by the end of this week
--- Day changed Mon Aug 20 2007
00:00 < SynQ> on both rhel + freebsd + ubuntu + debian etch
00:00 <@rizen> yup
00:00 < SynQ> ok
00:00 < SynQ> nite
00:00 <@rizen> bye
00:00  * SynQ is off
00:00 <+MrHairgrease> later
00:09 <@rizen> building on osx intel now
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01:26 <@rizen> stupid libpng
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04:30 < wgGuest61> ?
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15:41 < l-e-o-n> hi, when i save my changes on webgui 7.3.22 i can't see my updates its like i never did them...
15:45 < l-e-o-n> no one ?
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15:54 < l-e-o-n> hi, when i save my changes on webgui 7.3.22 i can't see my updates its like i never did them...
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15:59 < l-e-o-n> no one can help me ?
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16:09 < perlmonkey3> what's the question?
16:09 < perlmonkey3> l-e-o-n
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16:13 < l-e-o-n> shit
16:15 < sanyock> dont you see them as visitor or admin?
16:16 < l-e-o-n> no.. even i'm trying to do a new style
16:17 < l-e-o-n> i do it then i commit changes
16:17 < l-e-o-n> and its gone
16:17 < AMH_henry> is spectre running?
16:17 < l-e-o-n> yep
16:17 < AMH_henry> no errors?
16:17 < l-e-o-n> with no problems :/
16:17 < AMH_henry> have you checked the database itself?
16:17 < l-e-o-n> what to check ?
16:18 < AMH_henry> login to mysql and do a select on asset table and see if the asset is there
16:20 < l-e-o-n> nothing
16:21 < l-e-o-n> what could the problem be ?
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16:25 < perlmonkey2> l-e-o-n: You ever get help?
16:26 < l-e-o-n> they were trying to help me but seems with no luck hehe
16:28 < l-e-o-n> it seems like i'm having problems with spectre
16:32 < AMH_henry> what mysql version do you have
16:33 < l-e-o-n> i'm using wre 7.3.22
16:33 < l-e-o-n> mysql: 5.0.22
16:34 < l-e-o-n> when i run spectre as --daemon i'm getting this error: ADMIN: [Error] Couldn't fetch Spectre configuration data for www.terrasanagroup.com.conf
16:35 < l-e-o-n> what could it be ?
16:35 < AMH_henry> is spectre allowed to connect to your website?
16:35 < l-e-o-n> hmm yes ip's do match
16:38 < l-e-o-n> well wait..
16:38 < l-e-o-n> when i do the ip in spectre.conf it seems like spectre hangs
16:39 < l-e-o-n> with 127.0.0.1 it give's me that error... and with the proper ip it hangs
16:40 < AMH_henry> spectre.conf should be ok staying with 127.0.0.1
16:41 < AMH_henry> what do you get if you try wget http://<url>/?op=spectreGetSiteData from the hosting server?
16:42 < l-e-o-n> internet explorer cannot download / from bla bla :/
16:43 < AMH_henry> no, you need to execute that on the hosting server itself
16:43 < AMH_henry> do you have shell access?
16:43 < l-e-o-n> ah from the shell access
16:45 < l-e-o-n> 15:44:55 (244.14 KB/s) - `index.html?op=spectreGetSiteData' saved [2]
16:45 < AMH_henry> check the contents of index.html?...
16:46 < l-e-o-n> {} only
16:46 <@preaction> but it's valid JSON, so that's fine
16:46 < AMH_henry> any errors in webgui.log?
16:46 <@preaction> run perl spectre.pl --test
16:47 <@preaction> does your server know that localhost is www.terrasanagroup.com?
16:49 < l-e-o-n> ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: www.terrasanagroup.com.conf.
16:49 < l-e-o-n> subnets are already specified
16:49 < AMH_henry> what do you have in spectreSubnets?
16:50 < AMH_henry> and sitename?
16:50 < l-e-o-n> "209.62.91.100/32",
16:50 < l-e-o-n> sitename the url of the site
16:51 < AMH_henry> only 209... in subnets? no 127.0.0.1?
16:51 < l-e-o-n>  "127.0.0.1/32"
16:52 < l-e-o-n> its there too
16:52 < AMH_henry> and if you do a ping from the server to the sitename, you get correct reply?
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16:53 < sno> Hello
16:53 < l-e-o-n> yes
16:53 < AMH_henry> this is weird
16:54 < l-e-o-n> heh :/
16:54 < sno> I can't figure out why I don't have graphics in my installed system.
16:54 < sno> I built to 7.4.3-beta.  That worked.  I had graphics and everything.
16:55 < sno> Then I svn'd 7.4.4 into a different directory
16:55 < sno> then I 'switch_webgui.pl' on the WebGUI releases
16:55 < AMH_henry> @l-e-on: the website is http://www.terrasanagroup.com?
16:55 < sno> I fixed up the missing conf files and made sure spectre was happy
16:56 < l-e-o-n> i changed the site name... as it is www2.terrasanagroup.com
16:56 < sno> addsite the site I wanted
16:56 < sno> and visited the site.
16:56 < sno> No graphics.
16:58 < sno> What am I missing?
16:58 < AMH_henry> @ l-e-o-n: did you restart apache after making changes to www.terrasanagroup.com.conf?
16:59 < AMH_henry> @ l-e-o-n: you can check the access_log to see where spectre is connecting from
17:03 < l-e-o-n> yep.. apache restarted
17:03 < l-e-o-n> but still Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. Perhaps you need to adjust the spectreSubnets setting in this config file: www.terrasanagroup.com.conf.
17:03 < l-e-o-n> with test
17:04 < AMH_henry> have you can the access_log? It should say where spectre is connecting from
17:08 < l-e-o-n> 209.62.91.100 - - [20/Aug/2007:16:02:46 +0200] "GET /?op=spectreTest HTTP/1.1" 200 6 "-" "Spectre"
17:10 < l-e-o-n> can't understand
17:14 < AMH_henry> very weird indeed
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17:15 < sno> Why would I get "You don't have permission to access /extras/background.jpg on this server."?
17:16 < l-e-o-n> any thing else i could check ?
17:17 <@rizen> sno: did you check your file permissions?
17:18 < sno> Yes, they match the 7.4.3 installation permissions.
17:19 < AMH_henry> @l-e-o-n: just a wild guess... have you tried broaden the subnet, for example specify 209.62.91.0/24 instead of 209.62.91.100/32
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17:19 < sno> I was also told that each WebGUI swap needed it's own site address.  I addsite a site exclusive to the 7.4.4 branch
17:19 < sno> That seemed to work fine.
17:21 <@rizen> what do you mean it needs it's own site address?
17:21 <@rizen> ip?
17:21 <@rizen> domain?
17:24 < sno> I was told that when I use switch_webgui.pl that the new WebGUI code needed it's own web site configuration.  So for 7.4.3 I have 4p3.site.org and for the dev head I have head.site.org (site.org is not the real full name)
17:24 < l-e-o-n> i had this problem when i had spectre not working fine... even the admin menu bar on the left is a bit bugged with spectre not working..
17:25 < sno> Weird.  I used switch_webgui.pl again to restore the other site and now I don't have graphics showing there either.
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17:27 < l-e-o-n> still no luck :(
17:28 <@rizen> i don't know what switch_webgui.pl is
17:28 < sno> Something preaction gave me
17:28 <@rizen> but in general, the best way to do it is to have /data/WebGUI.svn and /data/WebGUI_7.3 and /data/WebGUI_6.7
17:29 <@rizen> and then make a link that points to whichever one is active
17:29 < sno> It is supposed to allow the /data/WebGUI link to migrate across versions and reset the server during the change.
17:29 < sno> Pretty much like you say.
17:30 <@rizen> as far as the privileges problem, you know linux and you know apache
17:30 <@rizen> the extras folder is just a static folder being served up
17:30 <@rizen> therefore if there's a problem it's in linux or apache, not webgui
17:30 <@rizen> so troubleshoot the problem
17:30 < AMH_henry> @l-e-on: what port is spectre running?
17:30 <@rizen> as you would any normal apache problem
17:30 < l-e-o-n> default
17:30 < sno> I was wondering if a config file got messed up and is pointing to a bad place.
17:31 <@rizen> don't wonder, just check
17:32 < AMH_henry> @l-e-o-on: have you checked if anything is in the way. use netstat -a and see if anything is listening on that port
17:32 < sno> I guess I would be surprised if wre/prereq/apache conf files were touched in the change.  Maybe they do.
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18:00 < SynQ> JT!
18:00 < SynQ> I've booked a ticket for bart and me
18:01 <@rizen> yeah, about that. there's no room at the inn for the likes of you two
18:02 <@rizen> when do you arrive?
18:02 <@rizen> do you want me to pick you up from the airport?
18:02 < SynQ> same time as Joeri and his crew
18:02 < SynQ> we can hobo his ride :)
18:02 <@rizen> k
18:03 < SynQ> is there a route 66 there?
18:03 <@rizen> that's california
18:03 < SynQ> ok
18:03 < SynQ> I'll settle for any other number then
18:04 < SynQ> we arrive at...
18:04 <@rizen> 90
18:04 <@rizen> 94
18:04 <@rizen> 14
18:04 <@rizen> 18
18:04 <@rizen> 12
18:04 <@rizen> those are all highways here
18:04 <@rizen> =)
18:04 <@rizen> more if you want
18:04 <@rizen> 151
18:04 <@rizen> 51
18:04 <@rizen> 213
18:04 < SynQ> chicago ord oct 16th
18:04 < SynQ> 12:05
18:05 < SynQ> we have to leave at...
18:05 < SynQ> chicago ord oct 21st
18:05 < SynQ> 16:20
18:05 <@rizen> wait? you're flying into ORD?
18:05 <@rizen> not MSN?
18:05 <@rizen> ORD is a 2.5 hour drive from her
18:05 < SynQ> is that nog good
18:05 <@rizen> here
18:05 < SynQ> oh
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18:06 < SynQ> joeri will drive :)
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18:06 <@rizen> so you guys are renting a car then?
18:06 < SynQ> Joeri is
18:07 <@rizen> you foooolllllls...... mwhahwhw
18:08 < SynQ> eheh
18:08 < SynQ> it's a direct flight
18:08 < SynQ> that is probably the reason
18:08 < SynQ> and its a not too expensive flight
18:09 <@rizen> yeah, renting a car is probably less expensive, if not less practical
18:10 < SynQ> and we get to see some nice freeway while we are at it ;)
18:11 <@rizen> and you get to pay tolls while you're at it
18:11 <@rizen> the highways in illinois are toll roads
18:11 < SynQ> joeri get's to pay tolls
18:11 <@rizen> so every few miles you have to stop and pay them
18:12 < SynQ> ok
18:12 < SynQ> now I'm going to taste some nice dutch traffic
18:13 < SynQ> whilst driving home
18:13 < SynQ> irc you in a few hours
18:13 < SynQ> ~
18:14 < sno> Haarg helped me discover my problem with graphics.  The code trees were under root, and while the code ran, apache didn't like providing the graphics from that situation.  Moved them out from under root, and the graphics reappeared.
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19:32 < sanyock> I am trying to integrate http://tracker.aklabs.com/ into WebGUI
19:33 < sanyock> Actually previously I have made the report by a few asp.net webpages
19:34 < sanyock> There is TT_Report table in the WebGUI database for which I do not see any web interface
19:35 < sanyock> Please let me know, does any  wobject exist which could used by an employer to supervise work time sheet?
19:36 <@rizen> Only if you create an SQL Report for it
19:36 < sanyock> For now I am thinking about a new SQLReport but may be it will be a wheel reinvention
19:36 <@rizen> the Time Tracker is incomplete
19:36 <@rizen> that's why it's labeled "beta"
19:36 < sanyock> I see, thanks for info
19:37 <@rizen> np
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20:40 < perlmonkey2> Would an inventory tracking system be an appropriate add-on to WG?
20:44 <@rizen> if it were built in such a way that it was generic
20:45 <@rizen> so it could be useful to lots of people
20:45 <@rizen> then yes
20:45 < perlmonkey2> Just an idea.....cool
20:47 <@rizen> pretty much everything is a valid idea for what could be in webgui
20:47 <@rizen> but going forward i'm going to be much more strict about the quality of those types of things making it into the core
20:48 <@rizen> they need to be fully developed (feature complete), fully documented, have a full test suite
20:48 < perlmonkey2> Been burned in the past?
20:49 <@rizen> i haven't been happy with the quality of some of the things i've let get into the core
20:49 <@rizen> even stuff created by my own stafff
20:49 <@rizen> so i'm going to hold everything to very high standards going forward
20:50 < perlmonkey2> Sounds like sound software engineering policy.
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22:18 < SynQ> ah
22:18  * SynQ is happy
22:18 < SynQ> going to the WUC
22:18 < SynQ> :)
22:19 < SynQ> what more could I wish for
22:20 <@rizen> you could wish that the WUC was actually a Porn and Beer convention instead of a technology show
22:21 < SynQ> isn't it?
22:21 <@rizen> nope.
22:21 <@rizen> that's later in the eve
22:21 < SynQ> oh
22:21 <@rizen> not during the day
22:21 < SynQ> well, I've seen 'porn' in vegas
22:21 < SynQ> in that club where we couldn't get any alcohol
22:21 < SynQ> worthless
22:22 < SynQ> in that case I'd rather stick with butt ugly gals from hooters from chicago
22:22 < SynQ> at least they had beer in great store
22:22 < SynQ> beer and food
22:24 < SynQ> just to compensate for all that I'm going to spend another hour on building the wre 0.8alphasoontobestable on ubuntu
22:26 <@rizen> i've already made it even more stable since the version i gave you yesterady
22:26 < SynQ> ow
22:26 <@rizen> i'll probably be packaging it up again late tonight or early tomorrow if you want to get a newer release
22:26 < SynQ> should I use that one?
22:26 < SynQ> nah
22:26 < SynQ> it's all about the prereqs for the prereqs on ubuntu
22:27 < SynQ> so I can muddle on with the version I got yesterday
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22:40 < SynQ> utilities compiled
22:40 < SynQ> :)
22:40 < SynQ> perl compiled
22:45 < SynQ> oh no
22:45 < SynQ> dynaloader errors
23:23 < SynQ> ah well
23:23 < SynQ> time for bed
23:23 < SynQ> nite
23:24 <@rizen> nite
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--- Day changed Tue Aug 21 2007
00:16 <@rizen> anybody know freebsd?
00:17 <@rizen> i'm testing the new WRE, but i want to bring my freebsd 6.2 box up to date with the latest patches before i do
00:17 <@rizen> how do i do that?
00:20 <@rizen> nm, found it
00:20 <@rizen> for future reference it is called "portsnap"
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00:38 <@preaction> you're going to rebuildworld?
00:42 <@rizen> don't know what that means
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04:08 < sno> ..
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15:11 < l-e-o-n> hi, i'm getting this in the logs anyone can help ? 2007/08/21 11:47:10 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - CRON: Response for job www.domain.com.conf-pbcron0000000000000004 had a communications error. <HTML>
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15:18 < l-e-o-n> hi AMH_henry
15:18 < AMH_henry> hi
15:18 < l-e-o-n> i solved my weird problem i had yesturday
15:19 < AMH_henry> great... what's the solution?
15:19 < l-e-o-n> re-installed webgui hehe
15:19 < AMH_henry> oh
15:19 < l-e-o-n> however i have another weird problem... lol
15:19 < AMH_henry> tell me
15:19 < l-e-o-n> i'm getting this in the logs anyone can help ? 2007/08/21 11:47:10 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1013] - CRON: Response for job www.domain.com.conf-pbcron0000000000000004 had a communications error. <HTML>
15:20 < l-e-o-n> i restart webgui service after a few minutes it stops again
15:22 < l-e-o-n> maybe i should try this ? http://www.webgui.org/install/upgrade_help/problems-with-wremonitor?pn=2
15:23 < AMH_henry> i get that CROn error too. and i'm not using wre. i didn“t have chance to look into it yet
15:24 < l-e-o-n> it's putting my system down every minute
15:25 < AMH_henry> hmm... i'm not familiar with wremonitor 
15:34 < l-e-o-n> shit.. 10x anyway :)
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17:08 < perlmonkey2> Rizen, I read your article on the "new internet" and today I see that Japan says they are on the band wagon, and will create a new internet by 2020.  One can only laugh.
17:09 <@rizen> that kind of thing makes me sad
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20:27 < SDuensin> rizen, you lurking about today?
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21:02 <@rizen> nope
21:02 <@rizen> i'm on a rampage today
21:02 < SDuensin> Awesome.
21:04  * SDuensin is researching alternate non-Java desktop stuff.
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21:34 < SDuensin> rizen - Refresh my memory as to why you don't like OpenLaszlo?
21:39 <@rizen> webgui uses yui
21:39 <@rizen> it's not about not liking something else
21:39 <@rizen> it's about sticking with a single api
21:39 <@rizen> so people don't have to download the libraries 50 times
21:39 <@rizen> for 50 different libraries
21:40 < SDuensin> I'm looking not only at size, but ease-of-use for the developer.  If it's a mofo to use, nobody will.
21:40 <+crythias> most people use it without realizing ...
21:40 < SDuensin> What's that, crythias ?
21:41 <+crythias> I"m just saying that the end user (most people) "use" yui without realizing that it [may have been] a pain to set up.
21:42 < SDuensin> Yea, I hear ya.  
21:42 <+crythias> as for developers... *shrug* they're probably welcome to use any JS they want. it's not that hard to add one. 
21:42 <+crythias> drop it in extras, reference it properly... 
21:43 <+crythias> boom, you now have openlaszlo.
21:43 <@rizen> that's fine for people writing 3rd party stuff...but if they want it in the core it will use YUI
21:44 < SDuensin> Well, crythias, what I'm talking about is a desktop-style thing that would likely end up in the core.
21:44  * SDuensin is sad to be limited to one library.
21:44 <+crythias> I'm confused.
21:44 <+crythias> this feature creep stuff...
21:45 < SDuensin> It is creepy.
21:45  * crythias is an old fart an' he's aginit
21:45  * SDuensin hands crythias a "Bring Back Gopher" t-shirt.
21:46 <+crythias> WAIS
21:46 < SDuensin> :-)
21:46  * crythias is actually 36.
21:46 <+crythias> but still. 
21:46 <+crythias> Desktop style something for WG? Why can't it just be a CMS?
21:46 <+crythias> and why can't that just be third party?
21:47 < SDuensin> Dunno.  rizen said he'd like one.  :-)
21:47  * crythias misses his archie client
21:47 <+crythias> can you imagine?
21:47 < SDuensin> hehe
21:48 <+crythias> archie was cool
21:48  * SDuensin remembers using "talk" right along side "archie".
21:48 <+crythias> and mud.
21:48 <+crythias> I was a big mud programmer/user
21:48 <+crythias> I invented chairs.
21:48 <+crythias> hee
21:48 < SDuensin> Oooo!
21:51 <+crythias> and ...
21:51 <+crythias> I separated input from output with a static "stats" line
21:51 <+crythias> basically, what we're doing now. in VT100
21:53 <+crythias> the big point was that the hit points, mana, and movement, spell effects, and coins were always onscreen
21:53 < SDuensin> Bring back BBSing!
21:53 < SDuensin> ANSI interface to WebGUI!
21:53 < SDuensin> (Actually, that'd be cool.  <G>)
21:59 <+crythias> I was such an arrogant jerk 14 years ago
21:59 <+crythias> too bad it was captured for all time on usenet
21:59 < SDuensin> haha
22:00 < SDuensin> That reminds me - I need to find an archive an old flame war.
22:00 <+crythias> I can't believe how I was. and why I even cared so much. I was so .. I don't know. young and insane.
22:02 < SDuensin> I found the end of the war...  http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.computer.doom.playing/browse_thread/thread/d61d500f8208d2d8/35d83667aa142c27?lnk=gst&q=apcimpgs&rnum=2#35d83667aa142c27
22:32 <@preaction> perlbot .ag
22:32 < SynQ> good day
22:32 < perlbot> .ag is Antigua and Barbuda
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22:32 < SynQ> Hi Doug
22:33 <@preaction> hi
22:36 < SynQ> are you in any way involved in the WUC schedule?
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22:45 < danny_mk> preaction, how is the chat WObject coming?
22:45 <@preaction> danny_mk, uhm. i thought you had it?
22:46 <@preaction> SynQ, involved how?
22:46 -!- arjancwidlak [n=root@widnet.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
22:46 < SynQ> involved as in, do you know if there is still room for a presentation or BOF session?
22:46 < SynQ> hi arjan :)
22:46 < arjancwidlak> hi all
22:47 <@preaction> SynQ, rizen or vrby would know better than i would
22:47 < SynQ> I'm coming to the wuc with Bart
22:47 < SynQ> preaction ok, I'll wait until they re-appear
22:48 < SynQ> arjancwidlak is Yung not coming this year?
22:49 < arjancwidlak> no I don't think he will
22:49 < SynQ> that's a pitty
22:49 < arjancwidlak> I'm coming with Marieken
22:49 < SynQ> I've seen that
22:49 < arjancwidlak> And he, that's progress isn't it?
22:49 < SynQ> are you on the same aircraft as us?
22:49 < SynQ> that is absolutelyfantasticlygreat
22:49 < arjancwidlak> I don't know, who are you? Koen?
22:50 < SynQ> indeed
22:50 < SynQ> :)
22:50 < SynQ> the man himself
22:50 < arjancwidlak> I haven't booked yet, must not forget to do that tomorrow
22:50 < SynQ> ah
22:50 < arjancwidlak> I'm going a week before or I'm staying a week longer.
22:50 < SynQ> we are going the 16th and leaving the 21st
22:51 < arjancwidlak> I've made a memo, I'll let you know
22:51 < SynQ> ok
22:51 < SynQ> :)
22:51 < SynQ> I am really glad that I'm going
22:52 < arjancwidlak> Me to, but most and for all because I'm going to have a week of vacation
22:52 < SynQ> hehe
22:52 < SynQ> hard working as you are
22:52 < arjancwidlak> You were not there last year were you?
22:52 <+crythias> hrm.
22:53 < arjancwidlak> hi Cryshias
22:53 <+crythias> I think rfe to tell me what tag something is locked under, and an option to become that tag.. woo
22:53 <@preaction> clicking the locked icon doesn't do that already?
22:54 <+crythias> well, I'm running a few iterations behind
22:54 <+crythias> Permission Denied!This Asset is locked for editing under a version tag different from the one that you are using.
22:54 <@rizen> SynQ we can definitely set up an after hours BOF (like we're doing with the hackathon), but I think we'd have to bump someone to set up a new presenation
22:54 <+crythias> which doesn't help bunches
22:54 < SynQ> ah
22:54 <@rizen> what did you have in mind?
22:54 <@rizen> if it's better than something we've got
22:55 <@rizen> we can bump something
22:55 < SynQ> a belgian beer sampling BOF
22:55 < SynQ> :)
22:55 <@rizen> cuz the pb staff each have 3 talks to do
22:55 <@rizen> and i have 5
22:56 < SynQ> bart could do a talk on 'helping dutch people with WebGUI'
22:56 < SynQ> about the most frequently asked WebGUI questions
22:56 < SynQ> it would be fun
22:57 <@rizen> are the questions applicable to non-dutch people?
22:57 < SynQ> I'd say so
22:57 < SynQ> they are mostly about parts they haven't learned
22:58 < SynQ> not from the courses Bart Teaches and not from experience
22:58 <@rizen> tell him to email me a description of what he'd cover and i'll see if i can find room for it
22:59 < SynQ> ok
22:59 < danny_mk> sorry, I was typing in an answer for my next job :-)
22:59 < SynQ> I think that doing a presentation is a good idea
23:00 <@rizen> so does that mean you want to do one too?
23:01 < SynQ> if you'd like
23:01 <@rizen> look at the schedule, see if you can find something cool to talk about that isn't covered
23:01 < SynQ> I could tell you something about using virtualisation
23:01 < danny_mk> rizen:  I never got a copy of the chat Wobject
23:01 < SynQ> I could create an 'in a box' cluster of webgui systems using KVM
23:01 < danny_mk> that is why I began development on the OpenId module
23:01 <@rizen> preaction put it up on a web site for you
23:01 <@rizen> and sent you an email about it
23:02 < danny_mk> hmmm... I never got it.
23:02 <@preaction> i believe i subverted some webspace on dusk
23:02 < danny_mk> what email are you using?
23:02 <@rizen> oooh that would be cool synq
23:02 < SynQ> I'd have to create such a cluster first, using your nice new WRE
23:02 < SynQ> but it could definately be done
23:03 <@rizen> preaction, upload it to: dusk:/data/domains/jt.plainblack.com/public/mirrors
23:03 <@rizen> i've since taken down that nik site that you uploaded it to
23:03 < SynQ> can I download a new alpha version of that WRE somewhere?
23:03 <@rizen> synq, in about 1 hour you'll be able to
23:03 <@preaction> oh
23:03 <@preaction> k
23:04 < SynQ> oeh
23:04 < SynQ> hang on, I'll send you my findings until now via e-mail
23:04 < SynQ> in a readmedebian.txt and readmeubuntu.txt
23:04 <@rizen> cool
23:05 < danny_mk> I was thinking about going to WUC however I am quitting this job and I am trying to find another one soon.
23:05 < danny_mk> so I can't go.  Maybe next year.
23:05 <@rizen> danny_mk...stay at that job until mid october
23:05 < arjancwidlak> send it cc, the readmedebian.txt 
23:05 <@rizen> go to the wuc
23:05 <@rizen> and then quit
23:05 <@rizen> =)
23:05 < SynQ> :)
23:05 < SynQ> I will
23:05 < danny_mk> LOL
23:06 < danny_mk> hmmm... maybe I should do that.
23:06 < danny_mk> I have until November
23:06 < danny_mk> so if I can I just may make it.
23:07 < danny_mk> by the way, is it me?  I can't get to nik
23:07 < SynQ> damn, I see I lost some of the notes I allready made for the debianpart
23:08 < SynQ> I'll e-mail what I've got up till now
23:08 < danny_mk> rizen:  how many lines of code would you say WebGUI is these days?
23:08 <@preaction> ohloh.net knows
23:09 < danny_mk> Firefox can't find the server at nik...
23:10 <@preaction> rizen: if the files are there, what's the URL to get to them?
23:10 <@rizen> danny_mk: if you're talking just perl then a little over 100k
23:11 <@rizen> if you add the javasccript in there, then a few hundred k more
23:11 <@rizen> and if you add all the html stuff from templates, then over a million
23:11 <@rizen> http://jt.plainblack.com/mirrors/chat_templates.wgpkg
23:11 <@rizen> http://jt.plainblack.com/mirrors/chat.tar
23:12 <@preaction> sweet
23:12 <@rizen> danny_mk download those now
23:12 < danny_mk> hey, the question does not specifically discriminate between html/javascript/perl
23:12 < danny_mk> ok
23:12 <@preaction> danny_mk, my comments for you are denoted with #***
23:12 < danny_mk> gotem...
23:13 < danny_mk> rizen:  gotit!
23:13 <@preaction> also, i'm not sure if the templates package will actually work
23:13 < danny_mk> I will take a look at it tonight.
23:13 < danny_mk> I am trying to also read up on Yadis to see how it will benefit WebGUI
23:14 < danny_mk> I still need to find out how/if I can retreive the email address from the OpenId provider to automatically ad it to the WebGUI user profile.
23:14 <@preaction> no, that's what Yadis does
23:14 <@preaction> openId is only for authentication. yadis adds layers for profile info and etc...
23:15 < danny_mk> yes, I was reading that a bit earlier.  I have so much shit going one...
23:16 < danny_mk> there are a few profile fields I would like to pull automatiically into WebGUI so I definitely need to learn that stuff.
23:17 < danny_mk> Has anyone worked on other language packs for WebGUI?
23:17 < arjancwidlak> I have: Dutch
23:18 < SynQ> Dutch is very well maintained I believe :P
23:18 < danny_mk> I was going to include a Spanish version for the OpenId module but I obviously did not.
23:20 <@rizen> SynQ, you guys don't publish to http://i18n.webgui.org
23:20 <@rizen> why not?
23:20 < arjancwidlak> For many reasons
23:21 < arjancwidlak> But we placed some on the contributions page
23:21 <@rizen> is there something wrong with my translation system?
23:23 < arjancwidlak> Well for one thing: everybody can change the files. 
23:25 <@rizen> yeah, it's a collaborative system
23:25 <@rizen> but it's also versioned
23:25 <@rizen> so we can roll back if someone defaces stuff
23:26 < SynQ> the dutch translation is maintained by the WOSSA
23:26 <@rizen> so if it had a password so only wossa could edit it, then you'd use i18n.webgui.org?
23:26 <@rizen> or still no?
23:27 < SynQ> I don't know
23:27 < SynQ> I am not the WOSSA
23:27 < arjancwidlak> Yes I think we would 
23:27 < SynQ> Arjan is a good spokesperson for the WOSSA
23:27 < arjancwidlak> We have a dictionary behind a password on webgui.nl
23:27 < SynQ> right now I believe the translation system is on a development machine
23:27 <@rizen> my main problem is that i'd like to get more people involved in translations
23:27 < arjancwidlak> so we all - try - to use the same words 
23:28 <@rizen> but by adding passwords to them it makes them less public
23:28 < arjancwidlak> there are only a few people translating
23:28 < SynQ> and that 'using the same words' makes a really good and coherent translation
23:28 <@rizen> but i could add it so that each translation could have a password
23:29 < SynQ> that would probably help
23:29 < SynQ> yes
23:30 < arjancwidlak> Yes, that would help, but to be perfectly honest, I'm thinking about dropping out
23:30 <@rizen> dropping out of what?
23:30 < arjancwidlak> That's because I really would like to use vi and grep
23:30 < arjancwidlak> dropping out of the translation group that translates webgui to dutch
23:31 < SynQ> is that not possible now?
23:31 <@rizen> you think it would be easier to translate using vi and grep?
23:31 < arjancwidlak> Yes I have a hard time searching
23:32 < arjancwidlak> Escpecially if you see strange things while using webgui, csuch als <BR />, you would like to immedialy find it
23:32 < SynQ> I agree with that too
23:32 < arjancwidlak> I was thinking of making my own translation and making that pubic for who wants it.
23:32 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: didn't we provide you with access to the machine that translation stuff is running on?
23:33 < arjancwidlak> No, sorry, asked for it many times, but no.
23:33 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: that would mean you'd do double work wouldn't it?
23:33 < arjancwidlak> Yes, it probably would
23:33 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: that is strange, I was under the impression Martin took care of that a long time ago
23:34 < arjancwidlak> He's waiting for your approval
23:34 < SynQ> I gave him approval about 2 days after he asked
23:34 < arjancwidlak> Okay, I'll tell him that, I'll talk to him in the morning
23:34 < SynQ> :)
23:35 < SynQ> there is another problem right now I think
23:35 < SynQ> the machine that was running on is now in Delft
23:35 < SynQ> Oqapi has a new machine now
23:35 < arjancwidlak> Oh my God! they don't have Internet in Deflt do they?
23:35 < SynQ> they do have that
23:35 < SynQ> fortunately
23:36 < SynQ> but I don't know where the translation stuff is at now
23:36 < SynQ> I believe they are moving it to a new devel server
23:36 < SynQ> at oqapi
23:36 < SynQ> but hey
23:36 < SynQ> give me a call tomorrow
23:36 < SynQ> if you can't seem to get trough the red tape
23:36 < danny_mk> I should know better than to look at websites that say stuff like "The RedNeck language is there for demo purposes. You can use it to play around."  I laughed so hard my co-workers had to come and see what I was doing.
23:37 < arjancwidlak> Now, you mention it: the translation server does seem to be offline
23:37 < arjancwidlak> It used to be here: http://documentatie.webgui.nl/tools/wgi18nedit.cgi
23:38 < SynQ> JT: when compiling the wre 0.8 alpha on ubuntu I get an error compiling perl that says 'you haven't done a "make depend" yet'
23:38 < arjancwidlak> I'll give you a call tomorrow Koen
23:38 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: I'm guessing oqapi forgot they had that on the devel machine
23:38 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: perhaps we could spare a dedicated (virtual) machine for webgui.nl and the wossa
23:38 <+crythias> grr
23:38 <+crythias> what am I missing
23:39 < SynQ> crythias: luck?
23:39 <+crythias> 2007/08/21 16:35:24 - ERROR - spectre.conf - POE::Kernel::_dispatch_event[1012] - WORKFLOW: Response for W-J23r6EO3bPOXmkkACPew had a communications error. <HTML>
23:39 <@rizen> SynQ, i've only just got ubuntu installed at this point...haven't had a chance to try to compile it, so i can't say why you might be getting that
23:39 < SynQ> I understand that
23:39 < SynQ> I just wanted to let you know
23:40 < SynQ> rizen: I've got two KVM virtual machines set up to compile WRE 0.8 alpha on
23:40 < SynQ> getting the machine back to 'clean install' state is a matter of cp cleaninstall.img ubuntuserver.img
23:40 < SynQ> and I'm back at base level :)
23:41 < SynQ> works like a charm
23:41 <@rizen> sweet
23:41 <@rizen> i'm just trying to fix one last bug before i package the newest alpha
23:41 < arjancwidlak> ritzen: I see there's a button now 'Commit to SVN' in the http://translate.webgui.org. Where's this repository? It's not here https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/WebGUI/ is it?
23:42 <@rizen> it is in that repo, just not that folder
23:42 <@rizen> https://svn.webgui.org/svnweb/plainblack/browse/translations/
23:44 < danny_mk> well, later guys.  I have to get some work done here.
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23:44 < arjancwidlak> Found it. I see all files are empty. So if you make 7.3.18 up to date, could we start with that version?
23:44 < arjancwidlak> Sorry of course I mean if *I* make the translation up to date.
23:45 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: do you want the file from documentatie?
23:45 < SynQ> I can get it for you
23:45 <@rizen> arjancwidlak, yeah, just get me a tarball with the files and i'll put them in the folder for you
23:46 < arjancwidlak> SynQ: You mean the version of 7.3.18 that was translated for 99%
23:46 < SynQ> that one
23:46 < arjancwidlak> Yes, I would very much like to have these files!
23:46 < SynQ> would you like to have that?
23:46 < SynQ> ok
23:46 < SynQ> hang on...
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23:48 < SynQ> arjancwidlak it's 15M
23:53 < arjancwidlak> Euh yes? Can you put it for download somewhere? B.t.w. I received you readme_debian_etch.txt
23:53 < SynQ> I will
23:53 < SynQ> I'm trying to find out which files you need exactly
23:53 < arjancwidlak> Thanx. I'll make the translation up to date and send it to JT so the first version in the SVN can be a complete 7.3.18.
23:53 < SynQ> the webgui-stable 7.3.18 source is 15M
23:54 < arjancwidlak> Oh, no the files I need are in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/Dutch
23:54 < SynQ> :)
23:55 < arjancwidlak> They shoud be 1.4M
23:55 < SynQ> I think I've found the Dutch/ directory you probably need
23:55 < SynQ> and they are indeed 1.4M
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23:57 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: shall I upload the tar.gz to webgui.nl
23:58 < arjancwidlak> He I just saw the crowdpleaser.mov Cool!
23:58 < SynQ> and if yes, where?
23:59 <@rizen> koen, is this correct: Koen De Jonge / ProcoliX
23:59 <@rizen> spelling and capitalization
23:59 <@rizen> and whatnot
23:59 < arjancwidlak> SynQ: Yes, that would be nice: http://www.webgui.nl/documentatie-project/
--- Day changed Wed Aug 22 2007
00:00 <@rizen> you're not supposed to look at that movie
00:00 < SynQ> JT: 'Koen de Jonge / ProcoliX' is correct
00:00 <@rizen> ok, thanks
00:02 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: it is there
00:02 < SynQ> at the bottom
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00:05 < SynQ> arjancwidlak: doet Marc nog mee aan dat documentatie project?
00:07 < arjancwidlak> SynQ: ik heb 'm 
00:08 <@rizen> they are posessed
00:08 <@rizen> someone find a priest
00:08 <@rizen> we need an exorcism
00:08 < arjancwidlak> SynQ: Yes I asked him and he was willing, but he hasn't done much 
00:09 < arjancwidlak> ritzen: That's my favorite translation-error: sorry, this room is possesed
00:10 < SynQ> owh
00:11 < SynQ> jesus, I'm getting so used to typing english that I don't notice any longer that I'm typing in dutch
00:11 < SynQ> it's all the same form e
00:11 < SynQ> for me
00:14 < SynQ> sorry
00:14 < SynQ> I'm going to bed
00:14 < SynQ> Tessa is ill
00:14 < SynQ> nite
00:14 < arjancwidlak> goodnight, is she exorcist-ill?
00:14 <@rizen> nite
00:15 < SynQ> she is 'mayor headache' ill
00:15 <@rizen> i'll email the url to the new alpha to you
00:15 <@rizen> so you can get it when you wake up
00:17 < SynQ> great
00:17 < SynQ> I'll try it
00:17 <@rizen> it will be up in 14 minutes if you wan tto wait
00:17 <@rizen> )
00:17 <@rizen> =)
00:17 < SynQ> and I'll try and find the problem with ./build.sh --perl tomorrow after work
00:17 < SynQ> I'm brushing my teeth now
00:17 <@rizen> i'll be working on ubuntu and the other OS's tommorrow too
00:18 <@rizen> so alpha3 should compile on all our target oses
00:18 <@rizen> except maybe windows
00:18 <@rizen> which is a special case
00:18 < arjancwidlak> she's major headache ill, so why brush your teeth?
00:19 < SynQ> since it is nice to sleep with a fresh mouth
00:19 < arjancwidlak> ;)
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00:20 < SynQ> ok
00:20 < SynQ> nite
00:20 < SynQ> ~
00:38 <@rizen> new WRE alpha version: http://jt.plainblack.com/mirrors/wre-0.8.0-alpha2-source.tar.gz
00:38 <@rizen> if anybody wants to try compiling it and give me feedback 
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02:04 < arjancwidlak> nite
02:04 < arjancwidlak> quit
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02:18 <@rizen> does anyone know how to extract a tarball on freebsd
02:19 <@rizen> it seems even when using gnutar it still says: gtar: wrebuild/wre/var/setupfiles/wreconsole.css: Cannot open: No such file or directory
02:19 <@rizen> nevermind
02:20 <@rizen> out of disk space
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12:22 < arjancwidlak> Hi all, In an SQL Report I try to check if a formparameter exists and modify the sql statement on that basis. I have no clue on how to do that. Does the If macro still exist or was that macro banned?
12:24 < sanyock> Could someone please let me know which type of form should be used together with SQLReport?
12:25 < arjancwidlak> what do you mean, what type of form? Any form will do, won't it?
12:25 < sanyock> I tried custom coded html which worked fine, but now I need to add period selection or combobox filled from the database
12:26 < sanyock> I mean custom html like <form> ... </form>, or SQLForm or DataForm
12:26 < sanyock> I see that main purpose of SQL and Data from is to save user input to the database, but  I need only in memory search parameters for SQLReport
12:27 < arjancwidlak> If you only need to do a lookup to fill a selectbox, you could use the sQL macro
12:28 < sanyock> Is there a better way to populate a combobox from database than described on http://www.gwy2.org        ?
12:29 < sanyock> I would also like to have date selection fields for period
12:29 < arjancwidlak> I don't see a description of that on Gerald Youngs homepage
12:30 < sanyock> http://www.gwy2.org/cgi-bin/fom?_recurse=1&file=18#file_64
12:30 < sanyock> How do I use the SQL Macro to populate items in a drop down list in a DataForm?
12:30 < sanyock> string above is a topic name on his FAQ website
12:31 < sanyock> Gerald offers to use construct: ONCAT('<OPTION VALUE=',valuefield,'>',listfield)
12:32 < sanyock> may be it is possible to tell a data(sql) form to not save the input
12:32 < arjancwidlak> Yes, there are better ways, read the help on any webguipage: ?op=viewHelp;hid=sql;namespace=Macro_SQL
12:36 < sanyock> I have read that topic previously but not clear on how to loop through the rows
12:36 < sanyock> Is there some variable which contains a list of rows (or row numbers)?
12:36 < arjancwidlak> as long as you have multiple results it will loop
12:37 < arjancwidlak> The second example in the help shows you multiple results. Read it!
12:38 < sanyock> hm, very good :)
12:38 < sanyock> I just missed that SQL loops itself
12:38 < sanyock> ^SQL
12:40 < sanyock> Please also let me know if it is possible to transfer a parameter to Snippet inserted by AssetProxy
12:40 < sanyock> I would like to do a snippet for complex menu item element
12:40 < sanyock> Or should I write a macro in such case?
12:41  * sanyock afraid of perl syntax :(
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13:04 < arjancwidlak> Hi all, In an SQL Report I try to check if a formparameter exists and modify the sql statement on that basis
13:05 < arjancwidlak> Hi all, In an SQL Report I try to check if a formparameter exists and modify the sql statement on that basis. I have no clue on how to do that. Does the If macro still exist or was that macro banned?
13:07 < sanyock> arjancwidlak, may be you can use IIF macro contribution
13:07 < arjancwidlak> It's from version 5.2 isn't it? You meen Len Kranendonks contribution?
13:07 < sanyock> I just read its description and did not try
13:08 < sanyock> when friefly viewed a list of contributions
13:08 < sanyock> briefly
13:08 < sanyock> can macroses be used in description field of asset? specifically of SQLReport
13:09 < arjancwidlak> Yes
13:09 < sanyock> When I tried to insert ^SQL macro there it is removed by WebGUI and later I see only <option value="^0;">^1;-^2;</option></select>
13:10 < sanyock> Originally it was like: ^SQL("select reportId, startDate, endDate from TT_report", "<option value='^0;'>^1;-^2;</option>");
13:10 < sanyock> looks like WebGUI cleans ^SQL and does not save to Asset
13:11 < arjancwidlak> Yeh, that's the editor. It can be done, but I usually use a snippet.
13:11 < sanyock> I used HTML source edit
13:11 < arjancwidlak> ritzen: that's defenitely a topic for the WUC: the editor 
13:11 < arjancwidlak> Yes also if you use HTML source edit, some of what you write may be changed.
13:11 < sanyock> sad
13:13 < sanyock> It would be nice if HTML editor could be replaced to a different one or disabled by a single option
13:13 < arjancwidlak> it can
13:14 < sanyock> Is it "Default Rich Editor" option?
13:15 < sanyock> Does "Forum RE" works any better in case of ^SQL macro?
13:28 < sanyock> I cannot get ^SQL working, it is not executed but just renders as is in the source (used in snippet now)
13:29 < sanyock> tried sample ^SQL("select count(*) from users","There are ^0; users on this system.");
13:29 < sanyock> no luck too
13:35 < arjancwidlak> don't forget to check: 'process as template' on the snippet
13:36 < sanyock> I tried with and without that option, but no luck
13:37 < sanyock> is "process as template" is actually needed for using macros too or only for template variables?
13:38 < sanyock> I was not able to use template variables directly in assets  like PageLayout and had to use snippets previously
13:38 < sanyock> May be it was HTML Editor issue too
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14:16 < xootom> Just trying to add a redirect to a page, can't get it to work though, is there something special I need to do? 
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14:21 < xootom> also if i set hide from navigation, no, it doesn't appear in the navigation still
14:24 < xootom> bug?
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15:50 < AMH_bob> GOOD MORNING!
15:53 < SDuensin> Morning.
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16:44 < arjancwidlak> Hi all, In an SQL Report I try to check if a formparameter exists and modify the sql statement on that basis. I have no clue on how to do that. Does the If macro still exist or was that macro banned?
16:51 < sanyock> I tried to create a sample ^SQL in plainblack demo and it does not work too :(
16:51 < sanyock> please see http://demo.webgui.org/demo1187756055_135/home/test
16:53 < sanyock> still pending to commit in the queue
16:54 < sanyock> btw, does demo able to commit versions?
16:54 < sanyock> correction: is able?
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16:57 < sanyock> commited, but does not work :(
16:57 < sanyock> http://demo.webgui.org/demo1187756055_135/home/test/sql
16:57 < sanyock> simply displayes the source
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17:00 < sanyock> and http://demo.webgui.org/demo1187756055_135/home/test
17:00 < sanyock> looks like does not exists
17:00 < sanyock> strange
17:02 <@Haarg> the sql macro isn't enabled by default
17:03 < sanyock> hm...:(
17:04 < sanyock> how can they be enable?
17:05 <@Haarg> you need to edit the config file, which you can't do for demo sites
17:05 < sanyock> yep, found http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/sql-macro-doesnt-work/1
17:06 < sanyock> May be that should be mentioned in http://www.aulix.com/home?op=viewHelp;hid=sql;namespace=Macro_SQL ?
17:07 < sanyock> I went to demo after not able to make it working on my own, just thought it was issue on my server ...
17:08 <@rizen> sanyock SQL macro is not enabled by default, which is why you can't use it in the demo
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17:09 < sanyock> I see now, but I strugled a few hours ago when most of you were still sleeping (timeshift)
17:09 <@rizen> arjancwidlak, you cannot add logic to the sql statement to check if a form parameter exists or not
17:09 <@rizen> you can only use SQL
17:09 <@rizen> so if you can find some sql to do what you want, then you're all good
17:10 <@rizen> sanyock: the help for all the macros has been moved to the wiki, so you should go update the wiki page to reflect whatever thoughts you have
17:11 < sanyock> ok
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18:11 < sanyock> other strange thing with ^SQL
18:11 < sanyock> When using ^SQL("select * from TT_report", "^0; <br>"); it quotes results
18:12 < sanyock> ^SQL("select * from TT_report", ^0; <br>); does not
18:12 < sanyock> I thought quotes were required to indicate a string literal
18:12 <@rizen> like the doctor says, "if it hurts, don't do that"
18:12 < sanyock> :)
18:14  * sanyock wonders: is it a bug or such design ...
18:14 < sanyock> sample have the quotes
18:15 <@rizen> no idea if it's a bug or your usage of it
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18:16 < sanyock> for example :
18:16 < sanyock> <select name="ReportId">
18:16 < sanyock> ^SQL("select reportId, startDate, endDate from TT_report", <option value="^0;">^1; - ^2;</option>);
18:16 < sanyock> </select>
18:16 < sanyock> works correct for me, which looks very strange
18:17 < sanyock> may be some perl modules installed on my server are buggy (old and should be updated)
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18:34 < arjancwidlak> ritzen: thanx, clear, I now found an SQL way to do it: SELECT CASE ? = '' THEN '' ELSE '' END
18:34 < arjancwidlak> by all, I'm off for dinner
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19:30 < khenn_> anyone seen diakopter recently?
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19:46 < sanyock> Please let me know, does a replacement for http://www.webgui.org/if_macro#wU6ddC2BwcjvopR2AUTkhw exists
19:46 < sanyock> It was a " ^If(Expression, "Display if true", "Display if false");" macro
19:47 < sanyock> mentioned as included into WebGUI
19:56 <@rizen> no
19:56 <@rizen> that macro with dangerous
19:56 <@rizen> and only worked half of the time
19:56 <@rizen> so it was removed
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19:57 < sanyock> http://www.studio4master.ch/en/projects/perl-macro
19:58 < sanyock> I am trying to use http://www.studio4master.ch/en/projects/perl-macro
19:58 < sanyock> which seems to be even more dangerous
19:58 < sanyock> especially taking into account that I am a vb.net programmer :)
19:59  * sanyock wonders if it is possible to create a mono proxy
20:00 < sanyock> there is PHP Macro
20:00 < sanyock> may be it is possible to create a mono proxy too?
20:05 < sanyock> it seems ^Perl macro does not work in current version
20:07 < sanyock> I need somehow to specify the default <option > for a <select> which depends on a previously selected FormParam value from the same select
20:12 < sno_> How do I get template expressions to work in my templates?
20:14 < sanyock> which expression does not work?
20:18 < sno_> Something that is working on a 7.3.18 site is not working on head: <TMPL_IF expr="groupIdView == 2">red<TMPL_ELSE><TMPL_IF EXPR="groupIdView == '4YUsuRVOi0_1pyNtn4Hv-A'">green<TMPL_ELSE>blue</TMPL_IF></TMPL_IF>
20:18 < sno_> I didn't write it.  Just duplicating it.
20:21 <@Haarg> you need to install and enable HTML::Template::Expr
20:21 < sno_> I'm thinking somewhere someone modified a module to include TemplateExpr but I don't see it on the tree I'm working on.
20:21 < sno_> You think it was not included in the base WRE installation?
20:28 < sanyock> <TMPL_IF EXPR     looks like a replacement for ^IF macro ?
20:31 < sno_> Actually, Frank told me to add the TemplateExpr parser to the config file.
20:32 < sno_> I'd rather do something much nicer, but I'm on a deadline.
20:33 <@rizen> sanyok: yes
20:33 <@rizen> sno: you can enable various template engines in the config file
20:33 <@rizen> then on each template you can select which engine to use
20:34 < sanyock> http://search.cpan.org/~samtregar/HTML-Template-Expr-0.07/Expr.pm
20:51 < sanyock> After HTML-Template-Expr module has been installed I am not sure which name should be added to "templateParsers" : [
20:52 < sanyock> there is only "WebGUI::Asset::Template::HTMLTemplate"
20:52 < sanyock> should I add something like WebGUI::Asset::Template::HTMLTemplateExpr
21:00 < sanyock> also it is not clear how to force a single snippet to use HTMLTemplateExpr while all other parts of site would continue to use default HTMLTemplate
21:01 < danny_mk> rizen:  Does webgui have a admin action or workflow that cleans up orphan records in the database?
21:01 < sanyock> Template Type seems to be available only in templates while I cannot appy a template to a snippet?
21:02 <@rizen> danny_mk please see sbin/rebuildLineage.pl
21:02 < sanyock> or may be snippet always uses template engine according its container
21:04 < danny_mk> OK
21:04 <@rizen> snippets can't select their engine
21:04 <@rizen> they only get the basic engine
21:06 < sanyock> thanks for info
21:07 < danny_mk> hmmm... that seems to miss userProfileData where userProfileData.userId != users.userId
21:14 <@rizen> yes it's only for assets
21:15 < danny_mk> OK
21:23 < sanyock> is it correct that pagination swithes from container url to url of asset with pagination?
21:23 < sanyock> for example having SQLReport parameters specified in page description instead of SQLReport description hides them on any next/prev page
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22:57 <@rizen> woot! WRE 0.8.0 officially builds cleanly on Mac OSX (PPC), Ubuntu 6, and RHEL 3,4,5
22:58 <@rizen> still working on FreeBSD, Mac OSX (intel), and Windows
23:07 < xdanger> Are you trying a "clean" windows build or a build on cygwin or something like that?
23:08 <@rizen> i don't want people to have to install cygwin (too big)
23:08 <@rizen> so i'm using prebuilt binaries there
23:08 <@rizen> but i'm putting those binaries in the same locations as the unix versions
23:08 <@rizen> and windows will have all the same utilities that the unix versions do
23:09 <@rizen> cuz i rewrote all of the utilities from the ground up to be cross-platform
23:09 < xdanger> ok... are you doing some registry bindings?
23:09 < xdanger> for services and stuff...
23:09 <@rizen> nope, enitrely independent of the registry
23:09 < xdanger> ok
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23:12 <@rizen> unfortunately due to differences in windows vs unix, the windows version won't be 100% the same as unix
23:13 <@rizen> but it will be close enough that most people won't notice
23:21 < xdanger> does anyone run webgui on windows in production?
23:22 <@rizen> we have a couple of clients that do
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23:34 <@rizen> how goes it henry?
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23:41 <@rizen> SynQ, now that I have WRE 0.8 working on Ubuntu, do you want me to build a new alpha for you?
23:41 <@rizen> or do you want me to pack up the binary?
23:41 <@rizen> Or have you gone to bed?
23:41 <@rizen> =)
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--- Day changed Thu Aug 23 2007
00:32 < SynQ> uh
00:32 < SynQ> If you could build me a new alpha
00:33 < SynQ> I can test if I find anything 'weird' if I run it on a clean (just installed) version 
00:33 < SynQ> oh 
00:34 < SynQ> and I believe I have it compiling on debian too!
00:34 < SynQ> debian etch
00:34 < SynQ> and now I'm going to bed :)
00:34 < SynQ> irsee you tomorrow
00:34 <@rizen> nite
00:34 < SynQ> nite
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02:49 <@rizen> wre 0.8 on macintel is building cleanly
02:51 <@preaction> yay!
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03:09 < arjancwidlak> quit
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05:56 <@rizen> wre 0.8 officially cleanlly compiling on freebsd
05:56 <@rizen> that only leaves windows
06:02 < vayde> w00t!
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11:06 < sanyock> Hi All
11:07 < sanyock> I am trying to call a MySQL sp from webgui using ^SQL
11:08 < sanyock> first thing I did: update SQL.pm and add "~ /^\s*call/i ||" there
11:09 < sanyock> Now I do NOT receive :
11:09 < sanyock>  'illegal query' => {
11:09 < sanyock>   message => q|Cannot execute this type of query.|,
11:09 < sanyock>   lastUpdated => 1135105884,
11:09 < sanyock> but I got another problem: SQL Macro Failed:</b>PROCEDURE aulix.TT_ReportList2 can't return a result set in the given context
11:10 < sanyock> there are many discussions about such error, which seems to occur when multiple result set returned from MySQL
11:13 < sanyock> I thing it could be solved if MySQL would support       select * from stored_procedure
11:13 < sanyock> may such thing exists in latest versions of MySQL, actually I was not able to find in the 5.1 reference
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11:55 < dapperedodo> MySQL does stored procedures from version 5.0
11:55 < dapperedodo> http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/stored-procedures.html
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12:12 < sanyock> dapperedodo, I cannot call SP from WebGUI
12:13 < sanyock> is it possible to "select from sp" ?
12:15 < sanyock> I have just solved it by installing the latest DBD::mysql from cpan
12:16 < sanyock> so able to call my own SPs from WebGUI
12:16 < sanyock> I will file a bug report for ^SQL to make it able to support SPs
12:17 < dapperedodo> I think SP's are too dangerous to put standard in the code
12:17 < sanyock> there are no any SPs by default in the database
12:17 < dapperedodo> Can't you deal with an sql report, they are more versatile
12:18 < sanyock> I could not use that SQL syntax in SQL or report
12:18 < sanyock> I need to display a drop down with TT_report
12:18 < sanyock> records
12:18 < sanyock> which would default to previously selected
12:19 < dapperedodo> You also need to add the privileges to the database connection in WebGUI
12:19 < sanyock> ^SQL not able to do conditional processing on WebGUI side
12:19 < sanyock> do I moved condition to MySQL
12:19 < sanyock> CREATE PROCEDURE TT_ReportList2(DefaultReportId varchar(22))
12:19 < sanyock> begin
12:19 < sanyock>      select CONCAT('<option ', IF(reportId=DefaultReportId,'selected',''), 
12:19 < sanyock>     ' value="', reportId,'">',
12:19 < sanyock>     startDate,'   -   ',endDate,
12:19 < sanyock>     '</option>') OptionElement from TT_report;
12:20 < sanyock> end;
12:20 < sanyock> it works fine from MySQLFront
12:20 < sanyock> to make it working from ^SQL I had to modify SQL macro source
12:22 < dapperedodo> You should create a database connection with the right permissions. The default database connection is very limited due to security
12:23 < sanyock> aren't default connection permissions set in MySQL rather than in WebGUI
12:23 < sanyock> I have set full permissions for WebGUI user
12:23 < sanyock> so it is not a problem with connection
12:24 < sanyock> rather need to add  "~ /^\s*call/i ||" to process function in SQL.pm
12:28 < sanyock> additional benefit is for those whos  perl knowledge is weak, now I am able to construct complex string expressions on MySQL side
12:31 < dapperedodo> I understand, I did that a lot:)
12:33 < dapperedodo> I think you can do the query in a sqlreport (it is possible to do if statements in querys)
12:33 < sanyock> How would you implement:
12:33 < sanyock> <form method="post">
12:33 < sanyock> <select name="FP_ReportId">
12:33 < sanyock> ^SQL("call TT_ReportList('^FormParam(FP_ReportId);')", ^0;);
12:33 < sanyock> </select> <input value="Display This Period" type="submit" />
12:33 < sanyock> </form>
12:33 < sanyock> ?
12:34 < dapperedodo> No, just the select in the sp
12:34 < sanyock> I need to have a stateful selector of the period
12:34 < sanyock> SQL syntax of TT_ReportList would break ^SQL if placed directly
12:37 < dapperedodo> That's why you should use an SQL report, you can als call an SQLReport with the assetProxy macro.
12:38 < sanyock> I do not want to see all reports and their child time records, but rather would like to have a combobox with report name (period) to select required report
12:39 < sanyock> period combo should be staful
12:39 < dapperedodo> You can filter all with the templates
12:39 < sanyock> how SQLReport can help me in such case
12:39 < sanyock> sure SQLReport will be used for displaying child data
12:40 < dapperedodo> You can create a sqlReport with the query, and put all combobox html in the template of the SQLReport
12:40 < sanyock> but SQLReport cannot help me to build a filter
12:41 < sanyock> Currently my filter is done in snippet which is AssetProxied in the SQLReport
12:42 < sanyock> But I cannot understand how SQLReport can help me to build a stateful combo
12:42 < sanyock> populated from the database
12:43 < sanyock> another problem I have found that pagination does not keep container and follows with SQLReport itself
12:44 < sanyock> is it correct behaviour?
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12:50 < dapperedodo> you can use the form proprty in the in the placeholder for the stateful combo
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15:03 < sanyock> I already made sql report for view work time reports but ^SQL works only when system is TurnAdminOn  mode, very nasty :(
15:03 < sanyock> could please someone suggest how to overcome this restriction?
15:18 < sanyock> actually it is a problem with ^FormParam instead of ^SQL
15:18 < sanyock> ^FormParam does not work when it is not a TurnAdminOn mode
15:19 < AMH_henry> are you sure? what param are you trying do get?
15:20 < sanyock> value of a combobox
15:20 < sanyock> <select name="FP_ReportId">
15:20 < sanyock> ^SQL("call TT_ReportList('^FormParam(FP_ReportId);')", ^0;);
15:20 < sanyock> </select> <input value="Display This Period" type="submit" />
15:20 < sanyock> </form>
15:21 < sanyock> I have just added for test purpose line
15:21 < sanyock> <br>^FormParam(FP_ReportId);<br>
15:21 < sanyock> it is displayed only in TurnAdminOn mode
15:26 < AMH_henry> The SQL macro is supported to give back a list of options?
15:27 < sanyock> yes, it is 
15:27 < sanyock> drop procedure TT_ReportList;
15:27 < sanyock> create PROCEDURE TT_ReportList(DefaultReportId varchar(22))
15:27 < sanyock> begin
15:27 < sanyock>      select CONCAT('<option ', IF(reportId=DefaultReportId,'selected',''), 
15:27 < sanyock>     ' value="', reportId,'">',
15:27 < sanyock>     startDate,'  -  ',endDate, ';  Rate: $', hourlyRate, 'USD/Hour </option>') OptionElement from TT_report;
15:27 < sanyock> end;
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15:29 < AMH_henry> k, ^FormParam(FP_ReportId) shoudl return the value of FP_ReportId. How is it submitted initially?
15:29 < sanyock> initially it is null
15:29 < sanyock> so first element is selected by default
15:29 < sanyock> later it keeps previously selected state
15:30 < sanyock> so it becomes stateful (like in asp.net)
15:30 < sanyock> it works fine in TurnAdminOn mode
15:30 < sanyock> actually the problem is not related with above code
15:31 < sanyock> it is the only related to FormParam
15:31 < sanyock> I already have found a very similar complaint in the forum, searching for solution
15:35 < sanyock> http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/trouble-with-formparam
15:35 < sanyock> very old post
15:35 < AMH_henry> I just made a test withit in 7.4.3 and it works even when I'm not logged in
15:35 < sanyock> I have 7.3.22
15:36 < AMH_henry> let met try this on a diff. server brb
15:37 < sanyock> please do
15:41 < AMH_henry> works there too... i do have the param in the url though
15:41 < AMH_henry> instead of posting it
15:42 < dapperedodo> Can it be the cache of a snippet?
15:43 < dapperedodo> caching is off in admin mode
15:43 < sanyock> may be
15:43 < sanyock> I have just checked with pagination (it is explicitelly "GET" there), does not help
15:43 < sanyock> cache issue looks promising
15:45 < AMH_henry> one step back.... what exactly do you expect FormParam to do?
15:46 < sanyock> I expect it to work... substitue form parameter value into the snippet
15:47 < sanyock> just cleared the cache and it worked as expected
15:47 < sanyock> it was set to 1 hour
15:47 < sanyock> dapperedodo, Thank you very much! :)
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15:54 < sanyock> btw, does cache settings of an element which contains ^AssetProxy entry have any relation to caching behaviour of other proxied element?
15:55 < sanyock> seems like does not, because I had cache setting 0 sec for SQLReport and 1 hour for proxied snippet which displays filter
16:10 < xootom> This is annoying, I have a form in the description area of an SQL Report, e.g. <form name="searchform"><input name="search" type="text"><input type="Submit" value="Submit"> then use form:search as the placeholder parameter, that works fine
16:11 < xootom> But if I want the form to show the last search entered I can't put ^FormParam("search"); in the text input's value parameter: <input type="text" name="search" value="^FormParam("search");"> -- It changes to ^FormParam(
16:11 < xootom> if it's outside the input control, the formparam macro works, and i can display the string
16:12 < arjancwidlak> =it's the editor isn't it?
16:13 < xootom> yeah must be 
16:14 < arjancwidlak> You can choose the default editor, you can also select 'ask' for the use of the HTML editor. That way you can have a normal textarea to enter you form into.
16:15 < xootom> how do i set that?
16:21 -!- perlmonkey2 [n=perlmonk@ip68-97-51-70.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #webgui
16:21 < perlmonkey2> No rizen today?
16:22  * sanyock also interested in "ask mode" for editor
16:23 < sanyock> its annoying to create snippets to avoid HTML editor problems
16:23 -!- danny_mk [n=daniel@76.28.6.5] has joined #webgui
16:29  * perlmonkey2 just found out he's going to be paid at work to work on WebGUI wobjects :)
16:31 < arjancwidlak> For a specific editor you set it by going -> import nodde -> templates -> RichEdit
16:32 < arjancwidlak> There you see to existing editors
16:32 < arjancwidlak> duplicate one
16:32 < arjancwidlak> edit this duplicate
16:32 < arjancwidlak> select: ask to use HTML edit
16:32 < arjancwidlak> This new editor is the one you are going to make the default
16:32 < arjancwidlak> Go to settings
16:32 < arjancwidlak> In one of the tabs you see 'default editor'
16:32 < arjancwidlak> select your own editor
16:44 < sanyock> another question is how WebGUI GUIDs are generated, is it some algorithm from CPAN or plainblack specific? I am working on VB.NET program for exporting data collected by http://tracker.aklabs.com/ to recently done WebGUI SQLReport
16:46 < sanyock> perlmonkey2, do they allow you to GPL paid wobjects?
16:46 < perlmonkey2> sanyock: I'll get to make that decision.  So of course.
16:47 < perlmonkey2> sanyock: They just want the ability to use the wobjects that don't exist and can't readily be found.
16:47 < sanyock> I wonder for suggestions, may be some articles in the net describing how to legally document terms with employer of shared code
16:47 < perlmonkey2> , found in other products, I mean.
16:48 < perlmonkey2> sanyock: I answer to two primary investigators on a research grant, one who isn't interested and trusts my judgement, and the other who appears to despise technology and won't let me utter words pertaining to technology while he attends a meeting.  
16:48 < sanyock> may be a collection of contract text samples exist
16:50 < perlmonkey2> sanyock: So while it would probably be a good idea to formalize the code's licensing, it might do more harm than good, since they would pass it on to the uni's lawyers.  Better to just keep everything quiet and let me do as I please.
16:50  * perlmonkey2 ponders what on his machine has decided to download at 1.5MBps for the last 5 minutes.
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16:52 < sanyock> arjancwidlak, I have just changed existing editor, thanks for info
16:57 < arjancwidlak> You're welcome
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17:00 < rizen_> the new wre alpha for all platforms except windows can be found here if anyone wants to give it a go: http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/wre/
17:01  * MrHairgrease is compiling for ubuntu 7.04 (feisty)
17:01 <+MrHairgrease> what is the wdk btw?
17:06 < rizen_> WDK = WebGUI Development Kit
17:06 < rizen_> it builds extra things into the WRE like subversion, a web based API browser, etc
17:06 < rizen_> however, it hasn't been tested yet
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> ok
17:06 <+MrHairgrease> cool
17:06 < diakopter> hey that's pretty cool
17:07 <+MrHairgrease> i'll check it out then
17:09 -!- dapperedodo [n=joeri@a82-93-238-59.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #webgui []
17:11 < rizen_> perlmonkey2: you were looking for me?
17:11 < arjancwidlak> ritzen: is there any way to go back to a normal page after editProfile? It seems that the route has to be: editProfile -> updateAccount -> updateAccount. I would like to be able to send the user back to the page he came from after editing his profile? Can that be done without non-WAI or non-XHTML strict methods?
17:12 < perlmonkey2> rizen_: Thought you might think it is cool that I've been given the go ahead to spend working hours on the survey wobject.
17:12 < rizen_> no the routing is not setable
17:12 < rizen_> so you'll have to give them a link back to the page
17:12 -!- rizen_ is now known as rizen
17:12 -!- mode/#webgui [+o rizen] by ChanServ
17:12 <@rizen> cool...so now you can work on it at work as well?
17:12 <@rizen> that's great news
17:13 < perlmonkey2> rizen_: We have a new researcher with a lot of sour experience on commerical/open source online survey software and he got this pushed through :)
17:14 <@rizen> nice
17:15 <@rizen> so he got it pushed through so you could build the super kick ass survey system of the starts?
17:15 <@rizen> s/starts/stars/
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> crap
17:16 <+MrHairgrease> out of disk space
17:18 < sanyock> could please someone suggest which module contains definition for WebGUI::Id ?
17:19 < sanyock> Alt-F7 does not help :(
17:19 < sanyock> may be I am looking for incorrect identifier
17:19 < AMH_henry> WebGUI::Session::Id?
17:19 < sanyock> I need to generate ids in VB.NET
17:19 < sanyock> and see current implementation
17:20 < AMH_henry> It's in lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm
17:20 < sanyock> thanks
17:25 < sanyock> btw, may be someone knows if a perl for .net exists ? (except activestate's which died)
17:26 < danny_mk> No but I am wondering why you are not using C# instead of VB
17:27 < sanyock> I prefer VB.NET syntax of C
17:28 < perlmonkey2> rizen: exactly
17:28 < sanyock> its more clipper like which was one of my first experienses after pascal
17:30 < sanyock> correction: over C
17:37 < danny_mk> Has anyone tested the OpenId module on their system?
17:38  * sanyock would like to have an OpenId macro
17:38 < danny_mk> openid.dbash.com
17:39 < xootom> arjancwidlak thanks for the editor help, can i choose different editors for different people? I want the 'advanced things' but a simple version for content editors, is this possible?
17:39 < sanyock> danny_mk, cool
17:39 < sanyock> are you going to contribute?
17:40 < xootom> i tried a content manager's editor, administrator's editor, making the administrators one only viewable by admin but it is still made available for everyone as their default
17:40 < danny_mk> it is already in the contribution area under miscellaneous
17:40 < sanyock> super
17:40 < danny_mk> check the link "Please visit the WebGUI website for more information."
17:41 < danny_mk> I wonder if I should mention somewhere in the documentation that once this module is installed you can still use the same WebGUI account and thaht
17:42 < danny_mk> the only thing you wouuld have to add is the OpenId identity in the box under the profile.
17:51 < sanyock> hm, I get an error on openid.org when trying to login to yours, may be cookie issue or a problem on openid.org?
17:51 < sanyock> interesting, they run asp.net based service
17:52 < sanyock>  Microsoft .NET Framework Version:2.0.50727.1378
17:53 < danny_mk> you should't be getting any errors at all.  I have never gotten a Service Provider error.  However can you please send me the error if you can?
17:54 < sanyock> should I PM on irc?
17:54 < sanyock> or e-mail
17:54 < danny_mk> send it to danny_mk@yahoo.com
17:56 < sanyock> done, I tried in Opera and Firefox
17:56 < sanyock> both fail
17:56 < danny_mk> interesting, do you have a WebGUI test site?
17:57 < sanyock> do you refer a demo on plainblack?
17:57 < danny_mk> NO, your own system.
17:58 < sanyock> I have a system
17:58 < danny_mk> even your notebook if you have one.
17:58 < sanyock> it is on a VPS server
17:58 < danny_mk> should work fine.  Would you like to test it there?
17:59 < sanyock> also I have one at home which currently stopped but can be easier use for tests
17:59 < sanyock> sure, I would like to test
17:59 < danny_mk> download the module and install it
17:59 < sanyock> k
18:00 < danny_mk> well, make sure you install LWPx::ParanoidAgent and Net::OpenID::Consumer first
18:00 < danny_mk> and that you have a working version of WebGUI :-)
18:01 < sanyock> is it http://www.webgui.org/user_contributions/user_contributions/miscellaneous/openid-auth-module ?
18:04 < danny_mk> yes
18:04 < sanyock> just a moment, installing modules
18:06 < danny_mk> Email must be very slow.  I have not gotten that error you were talking about.
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18:07 < sanyock> I sent from gmail
18:08 < sanyock> I will upload to ftp
18:08 < danny_mk> it should get here sometime this century.
18:08 < sanyock> :)
18:08 < xootom> quick question, is the content managers group == turn admin on group? it appears to have the same effect
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18:10 <@rizen> they're becoming closer in each release
18:10 <@rizen> but there are some differences
18:10 <@rizen> i just don't remember what they are at the moment
18:12 < sanyock> danny_mk, ftp://aulix.com/server.aspx.htm
18:14 -!- Radix-europe [n=Jesse@81.253.50.245] has joined #webgui
18:14 < xootom> rizen: I have an account that can edit a certain set of pages, his group is in the editing permissions for a set of pages. Now, in order to be able to turn admin on and do anything, I can put him in either content managers or turn editing on. that's ok so far
18:14 < xootom> but in either of these groups, in that account, with editing mode on, i can go into /root/import and delete/edit anything, including the whole import node...?
18:14 <@rizen> you should always use the turn admin on group
18:15 < xootom> that user can then trash the site, even if they have only the most basic rights to a few assets/pages
18:15 <@rizen> you can't delete the import node as it's a protected page
18:15 < xootom> ok any templates, navigations
18:15 <@rizen> and if you want them not to be able to edit the stuff under the import node, then simply edit it and change the privs
18:15 < xootom> editors
18:17 < sanyock> danny_mk, your code in contributions area seems to be from August 13, while you indicated that removed bugs on August 18, is it an old code?
18:18 < xootom> Ok i have gone to import node and recursively changed editing to Admins. that's fixed it, would seem to be a sensible default to me
18:19 < danny_mk> Hmmm... what is your openid identity?
18:19 <@rizen> for you it is a sensible default
18:19 < sanyock> sanyock.openid.org
18:19 <@rizen> but i have to think about 10,000+ users
18:20 <@rizen> most of which have only a few editors and most of those users need full access
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18:22 < xootom> I see what you mean, so by default normal content editors can edit anything in the tree
18:22 < danny_mk> sanyock:  when you try to login to the site and get redirected to the openid.org website, can you see the url in your address bar?
18:23 < sanyock> http://sanyock.openid.org/server.aspx?openid.mode=checkid_immediate&openid.identity=http://sanyock.openid.org/&openid.return_to=http://openid.dbash.com/home%3Fop%3Dauth%3Bmethod%3Dlogin%3Busername%3Dopenid.guest%3Bwg.oid.s%3D5OMLirTXNZMoSPd5t9bx4g%3BcheckOpenId%3D1%3B%26oic.time%3D1187883296-848de6e89dfb9ba8a4dc&openid.trust_root=http://openid.dbash.com
18:24 < danny_mk> Hmmm... that looks right!
18:24 < danny_mk> type in your identity at the openid.dbash.com without the trailing slash and let me know if it works.
18:27 < sanyock> I initially entered without trailing slash
18:28 < sanyock> do you refer the last character in string:
18:28 < sanyock> http://sanyock.openid.org/
18:28 < sanyock> ?
18:28 < sanyock> the rightest
18:28 < sanyock> I entered without it
18:29 < danny_mk> that should work fine.  I am actually surprised it does not work.  It has worked well for myopenid.com but it should not make a difference
18:30 < sanyock> I will try other provider
18:45 < Radix-europe> Greetings from Paris
18:45 <@preaction> greetings Paris!
18:46 < sanyock> danny_mk, myopenid.com passed without errors
18:47 <@rizen> howdy radix! how's the trip?
18:47 < sanyock> how is it possible to feel membership for user logged vi openid ?
18:47 < danny_mk> sanyock:  hmmm... something is not right with this problem.  Can you use openid.org on other websites without a problem?
18:47 < sanyock> I will try
18:48 < Radix-europe> Having a great time
18:50 < sanyock> danny_mk, well, http://openid.dbash.com/site_map?op=editProfile works, it is enough
18:50 <@preaction> Radix-europe, then why are you kicking around IRC you git? :p
18:51 < Radix-europe> catching up on emails,  and coordinating with a friend on skype to visit his place in the south of france in a couple of weeks time
18:51 < Radix-europe> Also just updated my blog a bit.. though still doing catchup
18:52 < Radix-europe> the tour I went on was an incredible fast paced tour through europe - barely got time to sleep let alone write blog, post photos, etc
18:52 < Radix-europe> now that the tour is finished we have four more days in paris and today is for planning/catching up on rest, etc..
18:54 -!- AMH_henry [n=yktang@erica.xs4all.nl] has joined #webgui
18:54 < danny_mk> sure
18:54 < danny_mk> that means you are logged in.
18:54 < sanyock> danny_mk, please let me know which is the latest version number for your OpenId module?
18:55 < sanyock> Could you please upload the latest bug free version
18:56 < danny_mk> the one on the website is the latest.
18:56 < sanyock> Big thanks!
18:57 < danny_mk> I keep it pretty much updated.  If you see any problems let me know.
18:58 < sanyock> sure
18:59 < sanyock> more easier to integrate other soft now, and I will be able to use asp.net :)
19:01 < danny_mk> cool, sounds good.  SSO is my main focus at my current employment.
19:03 < sanyock> btw, osspinions.org did not generate the error but did not login me as well
19:03 < sanyock> danny_mk, may be you can be nominated for openid integration grant? ;)
19:04 < sanyock> I was searching for SSO and read something about this in wikipedia
19:04 <@preaction> they're still doing that?
19:04 < sanyock> I do not know
19:04 < sanyock> may be expired
19:05 < sanyock> o help spawn additional deployment, a group of vendors announced a $50,000 USD developer bounty program in August of 2006, offering $5,000 USD each to the first ten large-scale Open Source projects to implement OpenID support.
19:05 < danny_mk> check your providers.  I am not at my home so I can not check the logs.  If your account is expired it will not log you in.
19:06 < sanyock> I just created one at openid.org
19:06 < sanyock> today
19:06 < sanyock> may be it is not active, something like this
19:07 < danny_mk> I did not care to give the user error messages but that is proobably a good idea huh?  LOL
19:09 < danny_mk> rizen:  How stable will the userProfileData table remain?  I try to use the API as much as I can, however, when I need a few fields I tend to pull them straight from the tables.
19:09 <@rizen> there are no guarantees
19:10 <@rizen> you should use the api in all cases
19:10 < danny_mk> darnit!  I had a feeling that would be your answer :-P
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19:32 < sanyock> even livejournal.com did not work with openid.org for me, while fine with myopenid.com
19:34 < danny_mk> sounds like a provider problem.
19:37 < sanyock> yes
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19:42 < sanyock> Is following list of updates to webgui.conf complete?
19:42 < sanyock> 1) add macro: OpenId
19:42 < sanyock> 2) "authMethods" : [ "LDAP", "WebGUI", "OpenId" ]
19:45 < danny_mk> yup
19:45 < sanyock> please let me know the purpose of step:
19:45 < sanyock> Login to your testing system and add the following account:
19:45 < sanyock>         username:  openid.guest
19:45 < sanyock>        auth method:   OpenId
19:46 < sanyock> is it a must or optional
19:46 < danny_mk> that is a must.
19:47 < danny_mk> that is sort of like the "Vistor" account for WebGUI although it does not serve the same purpose.
19:50 < sanyock> should he be a member of some group?
19:51 < danny_mk> nope
19:52 < sanyock> other parameters do not matter too? For example his OpenId Identity
19:52 < sanyock> except auth method
19:52 < danny_mk> no, don't set anything else.
19:53 < sanyock> ok
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20:20 < sanyock> Does not work on my server, error in the log:
20:20 < sanyock>  Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::Auth::www_auth. Root cause: You haven't defined a consumer_secret value or subref.
20:20 < sanyock>  at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Auth/OpenId.pm line 192
20:23 < sanyock> Should authentication method WebGUI kept unchanged in the settings?
20:26 < danny_mk> no, if you want your account to use OpenId you need to change the auth method for your user to OpenId
20:26 < sanyock> It is for existing users
20:27 <@preaction> existing users use the WebGUI auth already, they don't need to use OpenID
20:27 < danny_mk> Did you setup the openId macro somewhere on your site?
20:27 -!- xootom [n=tom@82-38-197-188.cable.ubr04.shef.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #webgui
20:27 < sanyock> yes, please see www.aulix.com
20:27 < sanyock> it is slightly slow (needs more RAM)
20:28 < danny_mk> preaction:  if you do want your existing users to use OpenId instead of WebGUI auth you need to change their Auth Method to OpenId and set their URI
20:28 < sanyock> I will need to correct layout of OpenId later because it breaks my layout slightly
20:29 < danny_mk> You can create your own form, as long as it has the same parameters
20:31 < sanyock> I see
20:32 < danny_mk> sanyock:  Let say you have a user named "carlos", you set his OpenId uri under his account settings to ex: http://carlos.t.myopenid.com 
20:32 < danny_mk> right?
20:33 < sanyock> I tried to create a new WebGUI user via OpenId authentication, I still did not try to change existing users
20:34 < sanyock> on your site it worked fine, at least I was able to edit profile of newly created user
20:34 < sanyock> on mine it logs the above error into webgui.log
20:34 < danny_mk> Do you have the setting "Anonymous Registration" set to yes?
20:34 < sanyock> no
20:35 < sanyock> should it be enabled?
20:35 < danny_mk> well, a new OpenId user would be anonymously registered, right?
20:35 < danny_mk> yes
20:35 < sanyock> let me try
20:36 < sanyock> I just missed that option and thought about it like about "Enable passive profiling" ...
20:37 < sanyock> both were off, now self registration enabled
20:39 < danny_mk> OK, it works, I just added myself to your system :-)
20:39 < danny_mk> Do you see my account?
20:41 < danny_mk> That is for anonymous registrations, if you want to use your existing WebGUI user base then you just change their Authentication method to OpenId and set their URI.
20:41 < sanyock> yes ! but I cannot add myself :)
20:42 < danny_mk> I added myself no problem.  Hmmm.... 
20:43 < danny_mk> are you using a good OpenId account?  One that you know works.
20:43 < sanyock> backdoor ? ;)
20:44 < sanyock> yes, I am trying to use myopenid.com
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20:44 < danny_mk> LOL
20:44 < danny_mk> no, no backdoor
20:45 < danny_mk> ok, so tell me exactly what you are doing.  
20:45 < danny_mk> ah, hold on.  I have to get lunch, can you hang around for 15 min?
20:45 < sanyock> sure, I will do more tries during
20:46 < sanyock> Bon appetit!
20:46 < danny_mk> they close at 2pm so I better hurry... brb
21:01 < danny_mk> ok, I am back
21:01 < danny_mk> did you have any luck?
21:01 < sanyock> no ...
21:01 < sanyock> I already tried several places (via RDP)
21:02 < danny_mk> alright, lets retrace your steps
21:02 < danny_mk> don't change anything in WebGUI
21:02 < sanyock> at least there is no new user
21:02 < danny_mk> is your server up?
21:02 < sanyock> I have just restarted the apache recently
21:03 < sanyock> I do general steps like for other sites
21:03 < sanyock> enter my id, click "loging using openid"
21:04 < sanyock> on myopenid.com I loging
21:06 < sanyock> I tried from place located in USA and succeded
21:06 < sanyock> strange..
21:07 < danny_mk> I would say 
21:07 < sanyock> but last time I tried several things other way than previously
21:07 < danny_mk> it would be interesting to see what is in your logs and exactly what response you get from myopenid.com
21:07 < sanyock> previously I tried to use "remember me on myopneid.com" and "allow forever"
21:08 < danny_mk> that should work.
21:08 < sanyock> those tries were NOT succeful
21:08 < sanyock> last time I missed those options
21:09 < sanyock> new user appeared as expected
21:09 < sanyock> I will experiment with that later by creating more myopenid.com IDs
21:10 < sanyock> webgui.log is empty since error related with "prohibited self registration "
21:11 < danny_mk> Ah, the module works fine.  However, I can not say the same for the browser/proxy/location and the options you may be selecting at the provider.
21:11 < danny_mk> You really have to watch out for cached pages and stuff like that.  They can be a headache!
21:13 < sanyock> I will try it later during integration of WebGUI with something else
21:14 < sanyock> it is very nice to have OpenId option, thank you very much
21:14 < sanyock> most likely it will become a part of WebGUI in the future?
21:15 < danny_mk> that is up to the WebGUI developers
21:15 < danny_mk> I like it for my sites
21:38 <@preaction> add an RFE with a link to the contribs area page
21:38 <@preaction> then it can get karma and be added to the WebGUI core
21:44 < danny_mk> Done!  http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> w00t
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> the wre is compiled
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> in only 40 minutes
22:07 < diakopter> while you're at it, you could add CAS(2), Bitcard, and TypeKey clients as wG auth subclasses, and other RFEs for corresponding server interfaces (as wobjects) to a wG installation's authentication system via those protocols.
22:08 < diakopter> (since all of those standards/protocols have perl implementations)
22:16 < sanyock> trying to do my own layout for OpenId
22:16 < sanyock> GroupText fails with inner html and <tmpl_if user.isVisitor> is allowed only in WebGUI login box
22:17 < sanyock> I need to hide OpenId login form after login done
22:18 <@preaction> you might be able to add another field to the OpenID macro to specify a template ID, if you were so inclined.
22:18 <@rizen> mrhairgrease: did it compile straight through cleanly?
22:18 <+MrHairgrease> one straight run
22:18 <@rizen> nice
22:18 <+MrHairgrease> i did --all
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> do you need the tarball?
22:19 <@rizen> thats exactly what's supposed to happen
22:19 <@rizen> no
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> ok
22:19 < danny_mk> sanyock:  which user are you logged in as when the GroupText fails?
22:19 <@rizen> but once we go live with WRE 0.8 i'll want a compile for that
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> ok
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> still have to test it though
22:19 <@rizen> it's just nice to know that it compilation is working as planned
22:19 <+MrHairgrease> but that won't be until tomorrow or the weekend
22:20 <@rizen> i spent 60 hours trying to get it to be that smooth
22:20 < sanyock> danny_mk, admin
22:20 <@rizen> actually, maybe more if you count all the perl module tweaks i ihad to do
22:20 <+MrHairgrease> i never had much trouble with 0.7.2 too
22:21 <@rizen> 0.7.2 compiled on ubuntu without stopping and without modification?
22:21 <+MrHairgrease> let me think
22:21 <+MrHairgrease> there was this one thing where Text::ASpell wasn't pointed at the right lib
22:22 <@rizen> btw, i also added instructions to the readme.txt for what you need to do for each operating system to get it to compile
22:22 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
22:22 <+MrHairgrease> i noticed
22:22 <@rizen> FreeBSD was the biggest bitch
22:22 <+MrHairgrease> but  have these installed already
22:22 <@rizen> just cuz it doesn't have a lot of stuff installed
22:22 < danny_mk> You may want to ask riizen, but the group text macro does not usually identify the admin as a non-visitor :-)
22:22 <@rizen> and when the files crapped out, they didn't really say "autoconf missing" or anything
22:22 <+MrHairgrease> hmm
22:22 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
22:23 < sanyock> danny_mk, sorry, it was my mistake, I just missed ; at the end, its too late here
22:23 <@rizen> took a bit of trial and error
22:23 <+MrHairgrease> the first time i troed to compile it ot would fail
22:23 <+MrHairgrease> but i just pasted the errors into google
22:23 <+MrHairgrease> and i had to install ncurses-dev of something like that
22:23 <@rizen> oh yeah, and the fact that freebsd doesn't use GNU Make by default really hosed me for a while
22:23 <+MrHairgrease> oh
22:23 <+MrHairgrease> that sucks indeed
22:24 <@rizen> i have almost 300 hours into WRE 0.8
22:24 <@rizen> so i hope that it helps a lot of people get installed more quicckly
22:24 <+MrHairgrease> i hope so too
22:25 <@rizen> i just found a huge bug in it relating to windows ( / vs \ )
22:25 <@rizen> so i have to go back and rewrite a bunch of it to use Path::Class
22:26 <@preaction> Path::Class? Not File::Path?
22:27 <@rizen> no, Path::Class
22:27 <@preaction> er.. File::Spec
22:27 <@preaction> ah, a better interface to File::Spec
22:29 <@rizen> i should have done it in the first place, but i was being lazy
22:30 <@preaction> the wrong lazy... because now you have to go back and do it again :(
22:30 <@preaction> the bad, evil lazy
22:31 <@rizen> yup
22:31 <@rizen> for some reason i was thinking that perl would do all the path translation stuff for me
22:31 <@rizen> but it's not doing it everywhere
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23:12 <@rizen> preaction...need an opinion
23:12 <@preaction> k
23:12 <@rizen> for functions that pass around paths, should I pass around the Path::Class object, or the stringified path
23:12 <@rizen> methinks there are advantages to both
23:13 < nuba> >the fact that freebsd doesn't use GNU Make by default
23:13 < nuba> i think i mentioned that in a wiki page
23:13 <@preaction> is it easy to create a Path::Class object from the stringified path?
23:13 <@rizen> yup
23:13 < nuba> re: compiling wre in freebsd
23:13 <@rizen> just: dir($path);
23:13 <@rizen> or file($path):
23:13 <@preaction> then i'd say pass the string around. we shouldn't force Path::Class when someone wants to use something else
23:14 <@rizen> that's what i was thinking
23:14 <@preaction> even if it's a Good Idea to use Path::Class
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--- Day changed Fri Aug 24 2007
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01:05 < arjancwidlak> How do I create an object instance from a macro by its assetId?
01:05 < arjancwidlak> Can't I say:
01:05 < arjancwidlak> sub process {
01:05 < arjancwidlak>         my $session = shift;
01:05 < arjancwidlak>         my $assetId = shift;
01:05 < arjancwidlak>         my $revisionDate = shift;
01:05 < arjancwidlak>         my $post = WebGUI::Asset->new($session, $assetId, "WebGUI::Asset::Post", $revisionDate);
01:05 < arjancwidlak>         return $post->get("rating");
01:06 < arjancwidlak> }
01:06 <@rizen> nope
01:06 <@rizen> well you could do do that
01:06 <@rizen> in fact, that should work fine
01:06 <@rizen> did you also "use WebGUI::Asset;" at the top
01:07 < arjancwidlak> Yes, I did:
01:07 < arjancwidlak> package WebGUI::Macro::PostById;
01:07 < arjancwidlak> #-------------------------------------------------------------------
01:07 < arjancwidlak> # WebGUI is Copyright 2001-2005 Plain Black Corporation.
01:07 < arjancwidlak> #-------------------------------------------------------------------
01:07 < arjancwidlak> # Please read the legal notices (docs/legal.txt) and the license
01:07 < arjancwidlak> # (docs/license.txt) that came with this distribution before using
01:07 < arjancwidlak> # this software.
01:07 < arjancwidlak> #-------------------------------------------------------------------
01:07 < arjancwidlak> # http://www.plainblack.com                     info@plainblack.com
01:07 < arjancwidlak> #-------------------------------------------------------------------
01:07 < arjancwidlak> use strict;
01:07 <@rizen> ew
01:07 < arjancwidlak> use WebGUI::Asset;
01:07 < arjancwidlak> use WebGUI::Asset::Post;
01:07 < arjancwidlak> sub process {
01:07 < arjancwidlak>         my $session = shift;
01:07 <@rizen> perlbot paste
01:07 < perlbot> Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl or http://erxz.com/pb and #perl will be able to view it.
01:07 < arjancwidlak>         my $assetId = shift;
01:07 < arjancwidlak>         my $revisionDate = shift;
01:07 < arjancwidlak>         my $post = WebGUI::Asset->new($session, $assetId, "WebGUI::Asset::Post", $revisionDate);
01:07 < arjancwidlak>         return $post->get("rating");
01:07 < arjancwidlak> }
01:07 < arjancwidlak> 1;
01:07 < arjancwidlak> Problem is not that it says error
01:07 < arjancwidlak> Problem is: it's not correct
01:08 <@rizen> are you sure that you've got the assetid and version correct?
01:08 <@rizen> cuz you're not checking if $post is defined
01:08 < arjancwidlak> Hmm
01:09 <@rizen> your code is correct as far as i can see
01:09 <@rizen> so it seems like your data might not be right
01:10 <@rizen> incidentally you may also want to do:
01:10 <@rizen> my $post = WebGUI::Asset->newByDynamicClass($session, $assetId);
01:10 <@rizen> because post can be subclassed
01:10 <@rizen> for example, by thread
01:11 <@rizen> and in the future there may be more subclassing
01:11 <@rizen> you'll also likely then want to do:       if ($post->isa("WebGUI::Asset::Post")) {
01:11 <@rizen> in case someone puts an an article assetid or something
01:13 <@rizen> incidentally...rating is exposed to the template variables, so using this macro will slow down your page cuz it will reinstanciate the asset
01:13 <@rizen> you may want to consider just using the template variable
01:14 < arjancwidlak> This my $post = WebGUI::Asset->newByDynamicClass($session, $assetId); seems very handy.
01:14 <@preaction> arjancwidlak, you don't want to get $post->get("rating"), you want to use the calculateRating method, or any method that actually goes out to the Post_rating table and gets all the ratings of the post
01:16 < arjancwidlak> The rating was just to test. I have a SQL report that searces the threads on metadata, keyword, and properties of the poster. This SQL Report has to return a page that looks like an Collaboration system. I was looking for the image, so I could say $post->getImageUrl;
01:16 <@rizen> newByDynamicClass *is* super handy
01:16 < arjancwidlak> Anyhow, it seems that my revisiondate and assetId are correct:
01:16 < arjancwidlak> mysql> select assetId, revisionDate from Post where content like "%post met rating";
01:16 < arjancwidlak> +------------------------+--------------+
01:16 < arjancwidlak> | assetId                | revisionDate |
01:16 < arjancwidlak> +------------------------+--------------+
01:16 < arjancwidlak> | pXHJDkLWRf76RJVV5enXqA |   1187904000 | 
01:16 < arjancwidlak> +------------------------+--------------+
01:16 < arjancwidlak> 1 row in set (0.00 sec)
01:16 < arjancwidlak> mysql> select sum(rating) from Post_rating where assetId="pXHJDkLWRf76RJVV5enXqA";
01:17 < arjancwidlak> +-------------+
01:17 < arjancwidlak> | sum(rating) |
01:17 < arjancwidlak> +-------------+
01:17 <@preaction> .. dude, seriously
01:17 < arjancwidlak> |           2 | 
01:17 < arjancwidlak> +-------------+
01:17 < arjancwidlak> 1 row in set (0.00 sec)^PostById(pXHJDkLWRf76RJVV5enXqA,1187904000);<br />
01:17 <@preaction> we'll take your word for it, or ask you to pastebin at one of the various sites for it
01:17 < arjancwidlak> However the macro returns 0
01:18 < arjancwidlak> Sorry preaction, didn't know that's not the habit.
01:18 <@preaction> is $post undef? you should check. then check the error log
01:18  * preaction & # going to packer game
01:18 <@rizen> type: select rating from Post where assetId='pXHJDkLWRf76RJVV5enXqA' and revisionDate=1187904000
01:19 < arjancwidlak> I don't even have to type it, I understand already ...
01:20 <@rizen> well what i want to know is what the value is in the database
01:20 <@rizen> it may not match the Post_rating table
01:20 < arjancwidlak> Yes, that's exactly the problem. 
01:20 <@rizen> that's a known bug
01:20 < arjancwidlak> That value is 0, as the macro says;
01:21 <@rizen> the Post_rating table is raw data, and the Post.rating field is a cached value
01:21 <@rizen> the cached value is not being updated properly for some reason
01:21 <@rizen> and that is a known bug
01:23 < arjancwidlak> It works, thank you!
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15:40 < SDuensin> Greetings.
15:41 <+MrHairgrease> hi sduensin
15:41 < AMH_henry> good morning!
15:42  * SDuensin never said it was good.  :-P
15:44 < AMH_bob> Boy, that's one way to start the last day of the week!
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17:04 < sanyock3> Hi All
17:04 < danny_mk> hello
17:04 < AMH_henry> hi
17:04 <+MrHairgrease> hey
17:06 < sanyock3> danny_mk, I could not login again via OpenID, it says that user already registered
17:06 < sanyock3> looks like it tries to create the user again
17:08 < danny_mk> Something is wrong, I will try to login again to your website.  What is it again?
17:10 < sanyock3> aulix.com
17:11 < sanyock3> aulix.com/login
17:12 < sanyock3> OpenId is only on /login page now
17:16 < danny_mk> lord have mercy, hold on my network conection is slooooowwww...
17:17 < nuba> amen
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17:26 < danny_mk> sanyock3:  I logged in without a problem.  This is kind of bugging me.  I am loggin in again and this time I am setting myopenid.com to accept your site forever.
17:26 < sanyock3> I set to allow once
17:26 < sanyock3> just a moment, will copy the error
17:26 < danny_mk> so did I and it let me in the next time, of course it set it to allow only once again!
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17:27 < danny_mk> does anyone else have a test site they can run the OpenId module on?
17:28 <+MrHairgrease> not right now
17:29 < danny_mk> just looking for at least one more volunteer.  I just can't understand why it works fine on my site and not on sanyock's.
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18:04 < danny_mk> OK sanyock2:  I tried both ways, allowing just once and forever and they both work fine.
18:04 < danny_mk> what browser are you using?
18:05 < sanyock2> I tried IE6
18:05 < danny_mk> that should work fine.
18:05 < danny_mk> something just doesn not sound right with your account.
18:06 < danny_mk> my account works fine on your system no matter how I try it.
18:07 < danny_mk> Do me a favor.  Login to your system with the admin account and check the OpenId uri for the account you are trying.
18:07 < sanyock2> Log In 
18:07 < sanyock2> Error:
18:07 < sanyock2> That account name is already in use by another member of this site. Please try a different username. The following are some suggestions:
18:07 < sanyock2> sanyock.myopenid.comToo
18:07 < sanyock2> sanyock.myopenid.com2
18:07 < sanyock2> sanyock.myopenid.com_2007
18:07 < sanyock2> just a moment, I also was going to delete my openid accouont in webgui and then to create it again
18:07 < danny_mk> that means that you are trying to create a new account.  There can only be one account associated with a URI.
18:08 < danny_mk> you don't need to do that.
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18:12 < sanyock2> http://sanyock.myopenid.com
18:12 < sanyock2> may be protocol should not be used
18:12 < danny_mk> no that is fine.
18:13 < danny_mk> OK, lets try another approach.
18:13 < danny_mk> ready?
18:13 < sanyock2> you can try to login using my id
18:13 < sanyock2> I will PM the password
18:14 < danny_mk> lets try something else.
18:15 < danny_mk> go into WebGUI as admin, edit your account.  Set the Authentication Method to WebGUI.  Change your password.
18:15 < danny_mk> logout and login again using your account.  Does that work?
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18:18 < sanyock2> yes, it does
18:19 < danny_mk> OK, now log back in as admin.  edit your account.  Set the Authentication Method to OpenId.  Make sure that the OpenId identity is set to:  http://sanyock.myopenid.com
18:20 < sanyock2> Allow User to Change Username?   No
18:20 < sanyock2> Allow User to Change Password?       No
18:21 < danny_mk> those don't matter.
18:21 < sanyock2> done
18:22 < danny_mk> Only one user in your system has the OpenId uri: http://sanyock.myopenid.com  , right?
18:22 < sanyock2> should try openid auth now?
18:22 < sanyock2> let me check using MySQLFront
18:25 < sanyock2> which table contains this info?
18:26 < danny_mk> hold on.
18:27 < sanyock2> most lile authentication
18:27 < sanyock2> likely
18:28 < sanyock2> yes, it is there and my id is unique
18:28 < sanyock2> only in one recrod
18:29 < danny_mk> OK, try the OpenId login now.
18:30 < sanyock2> is it somehow possible to disconnect sanyock from server completely, it is an old jabber agent session
18:30 < sanyock2> now using sanyock2
18:32 < sanyock2> may I use openid without http:// prefix now?
18:32 < danny_mk> no
18:32 < sanyock2> I mean typing into login box
18:32 < sanyock2> may be it was the reason of error
18:32 < danny_mk> use  http://sanyock.myopenid.com
18:32 < danny_mk> it needs to know the protocol!
18:33 < sanyock2> with http it worked fine
18:34 < sanyock2> I just tried without http once again and it failed. so protocol was the reason certainly
18:35 < sanyock2> may be it is possible to make http:// the default protocol ?
18:35 < danny_mk> good.  Geeeshh.... I knew I was not crazy.
18:35 < sanyock2> and let skipping it?
18:36 < sanyock2> :)
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> danny_nk
18:36 <+MrHairgrease> you might wanna use the url form element
18:36 < danny_mk> sure you can do that in your form.  But, what if someone needs to use another protocol?
18:37 < danny_mk> MrHairgrease:  You mean, when buidling the form
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> $f->url(...)
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> in stead of $f->text
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> or whatever you use
18:37 < danny_mk> hmmm... hold on.
18:37 <+MrHairgrease> it will popup a js alert box if you don't fill in the protocol
18:38 < danny_mk> cool, good idea.  However, he built his own form.  I will modify mine to use url
18:39 < sanyock2> O offer if         protocol:// is absent then default it to http
18:39 < sanyock2> otherwise use which was specified
18:39 < sanyock2> btw which other protocols can be widely used?
18:40 < danny_mk> https/ftp/...
18:40 < sanyock2> other question. WebGUI has a protection from bot registration
18:40 < danny_mk> Yeah, I guess a captcha image would work there.  
18:41 < sanyock2> if someone runs his own openid server on a zombied host it is possible to flood an OpenId enabled website?
18:41 < danny_mk> well, it would be the same way if they try any other WebGUI registration method.
18:42 < sanyock2> may be captcha should be added for first time OpenId login
18:42 < sanyock2> and later OpenId logins of the same id would go without captcha
18:43 < danny_mk> well, that is a little tricky.  If you do not allow anonymous registrations then this is not a problem
18:45 < danny_mk> however, if you do allow anonymous registrations then it gets a little trickier.
18:46 < danny_mk> Post a reply to this RFE:  http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/openid#mRsVPo4-VT3Cv61eV1rRcw with the captcha suggestion.
18:48 < sanyock2> without anonymous it is not required
18:48 < sanyock2> because predefined account is intended being a "good" (not flooder)
18:49 < sanyock2> and he cannot flood new account registrations anyway
18:49 < sanyock2> because selfreg would be off
18:49 < sanyock2> it is useful only for aliens
18:51 < danny_mk> if aliens=non-registered-users then you are right :-)
18:52 < sanyock2> yes :)
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18:56 < sanyock2> RFE comment posted
18:58 < danny_mk> OK, thank you.
19:01 < sanyock2> may i post my offer about defaulting protocol to http?
19:03 < danny_mk> I already fixed that in the Macro
19:03 < danny_mk> as per MrHarigrease suggestion
19:03 < danny_mk> just tested it a few min ago.
19:03 < danny_mk> works right.
19:03 < danny_mk> However, you do not use the macro on your website so you need to set that up on your form.
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19:07 < danny_mk> try using a default value in your input tag like:  <input type="text" value="http://" name="openIdUri">
19:08 < danny_mk> maybe a little reminder will work for those people who forget to put in the http:  :-)
19:09 < sanyock2> I reverted back to using macro
19:09 < sanyock2> also posted my RFE
19:09 < danny_mk> OK, I will upload the new version which contains the updated macro.
19:10  * sanyock2 interested, did plainblack review ability to use an ORM for WebGUI ?
19:12 < danny_mk> that would require a serious re-write of a lot of the modules
19:13 <@preaction> it would require a serious re-write of the API, which is not allowed until 2009
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20:50 < danny_mk> preaction:  are you still around?
20:50 <@preaction> yes'm
20:51 < danny_mk> did you include the templates in your package?
20:51 < danny_mk> I did not seem to get any.
20:51 <@preaction> you got two links, one chat.tar that has all the code, and one chat_templates.wgpkg that has all the templates
20:51 < danny_mk> yup
20:51 < danny_mk> I got them both
20:52 <@preaction> as i said, i wasn't sure if the wgpkg would work correctly, did you import it into webgui?
20:52 < danny_mk> however I imported the chat_templates.wgpkg but there were not templates
20:52 < danny_mk> not=no
20:57 < danny_mk> I have to step away from my kb, brb
21:02 <@preaction> apparently i can't edit tar archives with a text editor and have them come out right
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21:20 < danny_mk> OK :-)
21:25 < danny_mk> I will definitely need the templates or I will have to do a lot of guessing :-)
21:25 <@preaction> working on it
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22:00 <@preaction> so apparently a package i export from 7.3.22 i can't import into 7.4.x
22:27 < danny_mk> OK.
22:28 <@preaction> i'm building an SQL query that will insert the appropriate folder in the import node along with all the templates
22:28 <@preaction> of course, forming the dump from the old site is taking longer than expected
22:28 < danny_mk> ok, I will wait for your stuff before I continue.
22:29 < danny_mk> in the interim I am looking at the OpenId options and others to retrieve email info and possibly other properties from providers
22:48 <@preaction> danny_mk, http://jt.plainblack.com/mirrors/chat_templates.sql <- you may want to make a backup before you use that
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23:00 < danny_mk> ok
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16:55 < arjancwidlak> who #webgui
16:57 < arjancwidlak> You can't change a file in the userProfile with the profilField subroutine can you?
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17:17 <@preaction> arjancwidlak, you can get the storage location with the profileField. once you have that you can change the file
17:19 < arjancwidlak> Do you now where in WebGUI this is handeled? Because I'm looking through Operation/Profile.pm and have a hard time finding out where WebGUI notices the formValue is a file and calls storage or something like that. If I grep on __avatar_action or one of the other profile input values I find nothing.
17:21 <@preaction> it's in the WebGUI::Form::File control
17:22 < arjancwidlak> Thanks I'm going to have a look there
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18:42 < s1037989> Hi!  I'm new to WebGUI and am trying to move off of the seemingly dying Mambo.  I found this in the webgui.log: WORKFLOW: Response for QfxFlGDaojUq8gWBQM9KTg was redirected. This should never happen if configured properly
18:42 < s1037989> Any ideas?
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19:31 < arjancwidlak> Hi If I upload a file I should take these steps isn't it? 1. process the data via form->process, 2. create a form object via form->file and then 3. get the StorageId via getValueFromPost? 
19:31 < arjancwidlak> You can see the code here http://sial.org/pbot/27061
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20:56 < arjancwidlak> Hi guys, what's wrong with this: $storeObject->addFileFromFormPost("avatar",1000)
20:59 < arjancwidlak> Can somebody tell me how to upload a file in a macro in webgui? I'm busy for hours already, and I can't find out
21:22 <+MrHairgrease> arjan, that seems to be correct
21:22 <+MrHairgrease> don't you get any entries in your webggui.log?
21:23 < arjancwidlak> no, none at all
21:23 < arjancwidlak> I've tried other ways in the mean time
21:23 < arjancwidlak> but let me get back now to that one, one second
21:26 < arjancwidlak> Martin: if i say this:
21:26 < arjancwidlak> my $avatarId =          WebGUI::Form::File->new($session,{name => 'avatar_file'})->getValueFromPost;
21:27 < arjancwidlak> shouln't my file have uploaded?
21:27 <+MrHairgrease> it should be something like that
21:28 <+MrHairgrease> you could check the WebGUI::Operation::Profile->editProfileSave and see how it works
21:28 <+MrHairgrease> but I'm pretty sure that's about correct
21:28 <+MrHairgrease> can you send me your macro
21:28 <+MrHairgrease> ?
21:28 <+MrHairgrease> I'll have a look at it
21:29 < arjancwidlak> Here it is:
21:29 < arjancwidlak> http://sial.org/pbot/27064
21:30 < arjancwidlak> You see a snippet I've put on the page /blogzine above
21:30 < arjancwidlak> the macro code is below
21:30 <+MrHairgrease> It could have something to do with macro caching
21:30 < arjancwidlak> In getValueFromPost, it checks on an additional "private" input box
21:31 < arjancwidlak> so that's why it has a second input box 'upload'
21:31 < arjancwidlak> What's macro caching?
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> it means that macro's with identical parameters are exected only once
21:31 <+MrHairgrease> but that's prolly not it
21:32 <+MrHairgrease> since it still should have executed at least once
21:32 <+MrHairgrease> your page has no caching right?
21:32 < arjancwidlak> my snippet doesn't 
21:32 < arjancwidlak> pages have no cahce do they?
21:33 <+MrHairgrease> apparently not
21:34 <+MrHairgrease> they used to though
21:34 <+MrHairgrease> what is it returning?
21:34 < arjancwidlak> nothing at all, no errors
21:36 < arjancwidlak> If I change WebGUI::Form::File to WebGUI::Form::Hidden it says 'arjan.jpg', the file I was uploading, so I guess that's right
21:37 < arjancwidlak> In sub getValueFromPost addFileFromFormPost is called
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
21:38 < arjancwidlak> if I call that subroutine immediately it doesn't do anything eighter
21:38 <+MrHairgrease> i'm reading that
21:40 < arjancwidlak> So I was just trying the foreach loop, to tell me the value of upload
21:40 <+MrHairgrease> have you tried something like this:
21:41 <+MrHairgrease> my $avatarId = $session->form->process('avatar', 'file'); ?
21:42 < arjancwidlak> You mean process('avatar_file', .. ?
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> no
21:43 <+MrHairgrease> just like i wrote it
21:44 < arjancwidlak> It returns nothing
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> ok
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> i might have found the problem
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> change
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> __avatar_action
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> into
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> __avataraction
21:48 <+MrHairgrease> and try again
21:49 <+MrHairgrease> this is in the html btw
21:49 <+MrHairgrease> not the macro
21:50 < arjancwidlak> Yes, I've done there
21:50 < arjancwidlak> Both the new and the code code return nothing
21:51 < arjancwidlak> Why did you think that might be the problem?
21:51 <+MrHairgrease> Check out WebGUI::Form::Control->pivateName
21:51 <+MrHairgrease> it does not put in the extra underscore
21:52 < arjancwidlak> ok
21:52 <+MrHairgrease> moment please
21:52 <+MrHairgrease> i'll put it on my own box
21:52 <+MrHairgrease> and try it
21:52 < arjancwidlak> That's great
21:54 < arjancwidlak> shouldn't foreach my $upload ($session->request->upload("avatar"))  or avatar_file not return the value of the inputbox? Because it doesn't.
21:59 < arjancwidlak> I've got it: it's the form!
21:59 < arjancwidlak> enctype="multipart/form-data" 
21:59 < arjancwidlak> The text in the private name subroutine told me: Creates a safe, private name for additional use in multi-part forms
21:59 < arjancwidlak> like File and Image.
21:59 <+MrHairgrease> oh crap
21:59 <+MrHairgrease> i knew that
22:00 <+MrHairgrease> well
22:00 < arjancwidlak> This works now: my $avatarId = $session->form->process('avatar', 'file');
22:00 <+MrHairgrease> ok great
22:02 < arjancwidlak> and the file gets uploaded too!
22:02 < arjancwidlak> Thanx Martin, you probably saved me hours. I was just giving up.
22:03 <+MrHairgrease> why is that?
22:03 <+MrHairgrease> you found the problem
22:03 <+MrHairgrease> not me
22:03 <+MrHairgrease> i knew about it
22:03 <+MrHairgrease> but not 
22:03 <+MrHairgrease> rembere it
22:04 <+MrHairgrease> remember
22:05 < arjancwidlak> Yes, but I would not have found it if I didn't start reading Control-privateName
22:05 < arjancwidlak> It's __avatar_action by the way.
22:05 <+MrHairgrease> it is?
22:05 < arjancwidlak> Yes, I just tried both
22:05 <+MrHairgrease> ok
22:05 <+MrHairgrease> weird
22:06 <+MrHairgrease> you might wanna use image in stead of file though
22:06 < arjancwidlak> I'm creating a macro which allows you to alter individual profileFields and returns you to either a given page - if no errors - or the same page - if errors.
22:06 <+MrHairgrease> that'll create a thumbnail on the fly iirc
22:07 < arjancwidlak> Yes, I see, that works
22:10 < arjancwidlak> What does my $avatarId = $session->form->process('avatar', 'file'); do? 
22:10 < arjancwidlak> There is no sub process in WebGUI/Form.pm
22:11 <+MrHairgrease> it is in WG::Session::Form
22:11 < arjancwidlak> Ah, yes
22:13 <+MrHairgrease> oh
22:14 <+MrHairgrease> i see why it doies have the extra underscore
22:14 < arjancwidlak> IWell?
22:14 <+MrHairgrease> it does a join 
22:14 <+MrHairgrease> but it's written a bit different than i'm familiar with
22:14 < arjancwidlak> Ah, I'm goin to join with some French Fries now, hunry. Hear you later
22:15 < arjancwidlak> And thanx again.
22:15 <+MrHairgrease> bon apetit!
22:15 <+MrHairgrease> np
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00:32 < s1037989> Hey, sorry to ask again, but does anyone know anything about this error message in webgui.log: WORKFLOW: Response for 7C6YG-MQrmTX94SZB2LsQA was redirected. This should never happen if configured properly!!!
00:32 < s1037989> So apparently WebGUI isn't configured properly, but I have no idea to what it is referring.
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00:37 < s1037989> Hello, is anyone active in this room?
00:38 <+MrHairgrease> Only during commercial breaks =)
00:38 < s1037989> Haha!  Do you recognize this error message in webgui.log: WORKFLOW: Response for 7C6YG-MQrmTX94SZB2LsQA was redirected. This should never happen if configured properly!!!
00:39 < s1037989> So apparently WebGUI isn't configured properly, but I have no idea to what it is referring.
00:39 <+MrHairgrease> make sure that the sitename option in webgui.conf
00:39 <+MrHairgrease> its first entry that is
00:39 <+MrHairgrease> is set to the correct url for your webgui site
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> if you run spectre with: perl spectre.pl --run --debug
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> it'll show to what site it's trying to connect
00:40 < s1037989> The site name only needs to be the FQDN, correct?
00:40 <+MrHairgrease> yes
00:40 < s1037989> My gateway is /main, do I need to include that in the sitename?
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> no
00:41 <+MrHairgrease> if you have domain xyz
00:41 < s1037989> "sitename" : [ "www.assumptionstl.org", "assumptionstl.org"],
00:41 < s1037989> <VirtualHost *:80>
00:41 < s1037989>         ServerName www.assumptionstl.org
00:41 < s1037989>         ServerAlias assumptionstl.org
00:42 <+MrHairgrease> strange
00:43 <+MrHairgrease> run spectre.pl in debug mode
00:43 <+MrHairgrease> and it'll show which server it's trying to connect to
00:44 < s1037989> Looks good.  Errors show up in webgui.log but not spectre debug mode.
00:44 < s1037989> It just keeps looping: no workflows...
00:44 <+MrHairgrease> try to trigger a workflow
00:44 <+MrHairgrease> eg. commit something
00:45 < s1037989> # perl spectre.pl --run --debug
00:45 < s1037989> ADMIN: Trying to bind to 127.0.0.1:32133
00:45 < s1037989> ADMIN: Starting Spectre administrative manager.
00:45 < s1037989> Well, I go to to import a package, it tells me "Problem With Request".
00:45 <+MrHairgrease> it'll tell you which host it's connecting to when it's executing a workflow
00:46 <+MrHairgrease> oh that's something different prolly
00:46 < s1037989> # netstat -pan | grep LISTEN | grep 32133
00:46 < s1037989> That seems strange?
00:46 < s1037989> There's no results for the netstat on 32133
00:46 < s1037989> Which is what spectre debug says it's connecting to.
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> that's not good
00:47 < s1037989> Oh, I stopped my debug...  :)
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> ah
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> then it is good
00:47 < s1037989> # netstat -pan | grep LISTEN | grep 32133
00:47 < s1037989> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:32133             0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      2563/perl           
00:47 < s1037989> There we go.
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> yeah
00:47 <+MrHairgrease> that's ok
00:48 <+MrHairgrease> but start --run --debug
00:48 <+MrHairgrease> and commit something
00:48 <+MrHairgrease> no packages
00:48 <+MrHairgrease> just an article or so
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Adding workflow instance 6w_A9Bb7KXmv72Ly8T7zVA from www.assumptionstl.org to queue at priority 10.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Checking to see if we can run anymore instances right now.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: There are 0 running instances.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Total workflows waiting to run: 1
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Looking for a workflow instance to run.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Looks like 6w_A9Bb7KXmv72Ly8T7zVA at priority 10 would be a good workflow instance to run.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance 6w_A9Bb7KXmv72Ly8T7zVA.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Posting workflow instance 6w_A9Bb7KXmv72Ly8T7zVA to http://www.assumptionstl.org:80/main.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Workflow instance 6w_A9Bb7KXmv72Ly8T7zVA posted.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Retrieving response from workflow instance.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Response retrieved is for 6w_A9Bb7KXmv72Ly8T7zVA.
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: [Error] Response for 6w_A9Bb7KXmv72Ly8T7zVA was redirected. This should never happen if configured properly!!!
00:49 < s1037989> WORKFLOW: Checking to see if we can run anymore instances right now.
00:50 <+MrHairgrease> http://www.assumptionstl.org:80/main.
00:50 <+MrHairgrease> that's the problem
00:50 < s1037989> ?
00:50 < s1037989> I don't follow?  What's wrong with it?
00:50 <+MrHairgrease> it should be www.assumptionstl.org
00:50 < s1037989> But I thought I could make my gateway /main?
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> maybe i'm misunderstanding
00:51 <+MrHairgrease> what do you mean by that?
00:52 < s1037989> Well, I wanted to have the main site on the top-level be something else, while I use /main as a so-called development area for testing WebGUI before making it live.
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> ok
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> you can do that
00:52 < s1037989> So I have this: "gateway" : "/main",
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> but there's only one webgui instance
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> oh
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> i see
00:52 < s1037989> Correct.
00:52 <+MrHairgrease> i dunno how that works
00:53 <+MrHairgrease> gimme a moment
00:53 < s1037989> So should I just not use the gateway "feature" and leave it at /?
00:53 <+MrHairgrease> /main has a redirect
00:53 <+MrHairgrease> that's why it fails
00:53 <+MrHairgrease> what you should do is
00:54 < s1037989> I have an Apache /main Location directive.  Do you mean that?
00:54 <+MrHairgrease> go to Admin Console > Settings > Content
00:54 <+MrHairgrease> and set the home page to /main
00:54 <+MrHairgrease> remove the gateway setting
00:54 <+MrHairgrease> That way people will enter your site at the '/main' page
00:55 < s1037989> So I need to create an Assett Folder called /main?
00:56 <+MrHairgrease> wait
00:56 <+MrHairgrease> the old site is not running webgui...
00:56 < s1037989> No :80/ is running Mambo.  We're trying to do away with tha... :)
00:56 <+MrHairgrease> that's good
00:57 <+MrHairgrease> I'm not sure why :80/main is redirecting
00:57 <+MrHairgrease> but that is the problem
00:57 <+MrHairgrease> oh
00:57 <+MrHairgrease> check this out
00:57 <+MrHairgrease> wget -S http://www.assumptionstl.org:80/main
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> in comparison with 
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> wget -S http://www.assumptionstl.org:80/main/
00:58 <+MrHairgrease> the second doesn't do a redirect
00:59 <+MrHairgrease> so you could either try to:
00:59 < s1037989> I see.  On the first, Apache gives a Location: to the second.  Apache wants it to have a /
01:00 <+MrHairgrease> you could try to fix that (if possible)
01:00 <+MrHairgrease> or try to set the gateway option to 'main/'
01:00 <+MrHairgrease> oh
01:00 <+MrHairgrease> have to go
01:01 <+MrHairgrease> good luck
01:01 < s1037989> NP.  Thanks!!  :)
01:25 -!- MrHairgrease [n=martin@x032124.its-s.tudelft.nl] has left #webgui []
01:55 <@preaction> s1037989, do you have an apache <Location /main> or <Location main/> ?
01:55 <@preaction> or did you figure it out already?
01:57 < arjancwidlak> preaction, You're Doug aren't you?
01:57 <@preaction> yes'm
01:57 < arjancwidlak> Can I ask you something
01:57 <@preaction> surely
01:57 < arjancwidlak> There are privateNames such as __xxx_action
01:57 < arjancwidlak> and files in the profile get _file appended
01:58 < arjancwidlak> I've found the subroutnie privateName
01:58 < arjancwidlak> that rejoins the names 
01:58 < arjancwidlak> but where is _file taken of the profile name?
01:59 <@preaction> i think you've stumped me, but that's not hard to do. what module are you looking in?
02:01 < arjancwidlak> Well, I don't know where to look
02:01 <@preaction> looks like line 266 of WebGUI::Form::File
02:01 <@preaction> it's a rather ugly line
02:01 <@preaction> looks like the javascript generates the *_file controls
02:02 < arjancwidlak> Yes, that's were it's generated, but where is it taken off?
02:02 < arjancwidlak> Because it has to be taken off somewhere
02:02 <@preaction> you mean where is it handled? where's the file uploaded?
02:02 < arjancwidlak> No, give me a second
02:09 < arjancwidlak> In www_editProfileSave validateProfileData is called, in validateProfileData loops through all editable fields and returns \%data, $error and $warning. In data the fieldName and value are stored. it returns to www_editProfileSave, there it loops through the fieldNames and calles user->profileField to save it. 
02:09 < arjancwidlak> So my conclusion: somewhere in sub profileField the _file must be taken off, but if don't see it.
02:10 <@preaction> oh, no, it doesn't need to be taken off: the fieldName doesn't have it on initially, it's added by the getValueFromFormPost sub
02:10 <@preaction> so you have a field with name "avatar", which generates "_avatar_action" and "_avatar_file", then getValueFromFormPost takes the name "avatar" and knows it's looking for _avatar_action and _avatar_file
02:11 <@preaction> line 219 of WebGUI::Form::File, in the getValueFromFormPost sub
02:11 <@preaction> er. getValueFromPost
02:15 < arjancwidlak> Sorry, I'm dissy from it. So avatar_file is send by the form to WebGUI. 
02:15 < arjancwidlak> there it's processed by editProfileSave
02:15 < arjancwidlak> getValueFromPost is not called immediately
02:15 < arjancwidlak> or is it?
02:17 <@preaction> wtf, now i'm looking at all this code and i'm not getting it either...
02:17 <@preaction> where is getValueFromPost called?
02:18 < arjancwidlak> 1. avatar_file -> WG
02:18 < arjancwidlak> 2. editProfileSave
02:18 < arjancwidlak> 3. validateProfileData
02:19 < arjancwidlak> 4. field -> formProcess
02:19 <@preaction> formProcess calls WebGUI::Session::Form->process, which calls getValueFromPost
02:19 <@preaction> ha!
02:20 <@preaction> 269 of WebGUI::ProfileField
02:21 < arjancwidlak> formProcess calls form->process, I see that it gives
02:21 < arjancwidlak> $self->getId as name 
02:21 <@preaction> $self being the WebGUI::ProfileField
02:22 < arjancwidlak> yes, but I'm sorry, it's not the name from the form is it?
02:22 <@preaction> yes, they're the same thing
02:22 <@preaction> it's the profile field's name, which is the name from the form
02:23 <@preaction> i mean, the File upload control doesn't actually have a single field with the name $self->getId, but it uses $self->getId to make the names of the fields it does use
02:23 <@preaction> er, it has a hidden field with a storageId i think
02:23 <@preaction> with the name the same as $self->getId (which is the name of the profileField and the column in the userProfileData table)
02:24 <@preaction> in theory, the $self->getId."_file" field name should be using the privateName sub probably, but it works the way it works
02:27 < arjancwidlak> Ok, form->process calls getId in module ProfileField, getId calls get("fieldName")
02:27 < arjancwidlak> and there I loose it
02:27 < arjancwidlak> I understand how the form is generated, but I don't understand how 
02:28 <@preaction> the WebGUI::ProfileField is translated into a WebGUI::Form::Control by the WebGUI::ProfileField->formProperties subroutine
02:29 <@preaction> one of the arguments to WebGUI::Session::Form->process is a hashref of properties to make a WebGUI::Form::Control (since our second argument, which is required, is the class name)
02:36 < arjancwidlak> Wow, I'm really having trouble getting this. So in valudateProfileDate every field *from the database* is passed to formProcess, there form->process is called with that name, avalid profileField according to the database, right or wrong?
02:36 <@preaction> every editable field from the database, yes
02:37 <@preaction> form->process is given the name of the field, the field's type (the class name), the field's default value, and a hashref of properties to create a WebGUI::Form::Control (4 arguments to form->process)
02:44 < arjancwidlak> before - in formProcess - form->process is given the 4 arguments, _formProperties is called with the current value of the profileField
02:45 <@preaction> because the value isn't yet known by the ProfileField (ProfileField objects don't store values, only WebGUI::Form::Control objects do)
02:48 < arjancwidlak> In _formProperties is defined what properties the formField may have, not? Allowed properties so to say
02:49 <@preaction> not really, you can pass anything as a hashref to formProperties
02:49 <@preaction> inside the subroutine itself though, it translates the necessary data from the ProfileField properties into a Form::Control properties
02:51 < arjancwidlak> But at some point, the name * with _file * must come into play
02:51 < arjancwidlak> Perhaps I'm making this too difficult
02:52 < arjancwidlak> What I'm trying to do is this:
02:52 < arjancwidlak> I want to create a macro that updates *some* profileFields
02:52 <@preaction> the name with _file comes into play when (and only when) getValueFromPost is called
02:52 < arjancwidlak> In editProfileSave this seems very simple
02:53 <@preaction> so if you call getValueFromPost, you're all fine like wine
02:53 <@preaction> if you really want, i can tell you how to add your own operations, though JT will kill me for it if it ever gets out that i told you
02:54 <@preaction> in WebGUI::Operation there's a huge hash reference of operationName => Class::Name, where the Class:Name has a method called www_operationName
02:54 <@preaction> make a diff of WebGUI::Operation.pm and apply it every time you upgrade (if you so desire)
02:54 <@preaction> my desire is to make operations pluggable, since that will be useful to people, but I need more support before JT will agree
02:55 < arjancwidlak> I believe my collegue Yung once did something like this, but, then, he's much better than I am.
02:56 <@preaction> wouldn't doubt it, it's not as difficult as it seems, but it'd be even easier to just change is so they were pluggable (and then I wouldn't have to deal with the inadequacy of that huge hash reference)
02:57 <@preaction> basically the hash reference would be built by sbin/preload.perl
02:57 <@preaction> but we'll do it the macro way
02:57 <@preaction> i assume you have a macro already that draws the form using the proper API for it, right?
02:58 <@preaction> then the same macro detects if the Submit button has been pressed and then goes through the fields displayed and calls getValueFromPost on them to put the value into the user's profile, no?
02:59 < arjancwidlak> I have static HTML that goes to a page with the macro on it. This macro should update just the few profilefields it receives. In editProfileSave it seems simple to store all the values, you just call validateProfileData, but since validateProfileData forces you to give it *all* required fiels. I don't want that. 
03:00 < arjancwidlak> Therefore I thought
03:00 < arjancwidlak> i loop trough
03:00 < arjancwidlak> both the editable fields
03:00 < arjancwidlak> and the fields it recieves
03:00 < arjancwidlak> if there's a mathc then ..
03:00 < arjancwidlak> so I thought
03:01 < arjancwidlak> lets have a look at where these names are made equal
03:01 < arjancwidlak> whre avatar_file is made into avatar
03:01 <@preaction> why not give the fieldNames to the macro in its arguments? ^ProcessProfile("fieldName","fieldName2"); 
03:02 <@preaction> but if you're going that far, you could have the macro generate the form for you too ;)
03:02 < arjancwidlak> I didnt' give any arguments I posted the form to a page where the macro's on
03:03 < arjancwidlak> But perhaps that's a simple solution: make multiple pages and give the names of the fields i want updated
03:03 < arjancwidlak> Less elegant, but i would work
03:03 < arjancwidlak> The HTML of the page is so complex, it needs static HTML
03:03 <@preaction> i dunno, i'd think more elegant, you've written a macro that can be used anywhere, on any site, just by specifying profile field names
03:04 <@preaction> needs? why?
03:04 <@preaction> make it templatable while you're at it perhaps?
03:04 <@preaction> have the first argument be a template ID
03:04 < arjancwidlak> Yes, possibly, but let me first solve this part of the problem
03:04 <@preaction> make the fields into template fields a la form_<profileFieldName>
03:04 <@preaction> ok
03:05 < arjancwidlak> You're right of course, that would work. And I think it's not a problem
03:05 < arjancwidlak> But I thouht to just post the form and loop thought the names it receives, that always works
03:06 <@preaction> usually, yes
03:06 < arjancwidlak> Naming the the fields in the macro's arguments is actually the same isn't it?
03:06 <@preaction> but there are those private names, and some form controls don't even make private names at all
03:06 <@preaction> they just magically make fieldName_blah fields
03:07 < arjancwidlak> Yes, but that's on the form creation side
03:07 <@preaction> yeah, but you have to process them :(
03:07 < arjancwidlak> my problem is on the recieving end
03:07 <@preaction> or rather, ignore them
03:07 < arjancwidlak> but how can I ignore them, if I call validateProfileFields, it forces me to provide all fields
03:09 <@preaction> oh, right, because you have to call that to make sure all the profile fields are valid / filled in / otherwise
03:09 <@preaction> hmm...
03:10 < arjancwidlak> I made a very simple version here
03:10 < arjancwidlak> http://sial.org/pbot/27069
03:10 < arjancwidlak> That works because I use avatar_file in the form
03:10 < arjancwidlak> and add the hidden private field
03:10 <@preaction> oh that's crap. if you're only editing part of a profile (as in, your macro), the validateProfileFields subroutine would basically destroy those fields you didn't submit
03:10 < arjancwidlak> Yes
03:10 < arjancwidlak> But it doesn't because it gives an error
03:11 <@preaction> unless you either (a) made them all hidden fields with the existing values (which is ugly)
03:11 <@preaction> or (b) altered validateProfileFields to take an array of fieldNames (elegant and awesome)
03:11 < arjancwidlak> Yes, that's definedly a possibility
03:11 < arjancwidlak> Yes, that's was what I was doing
03:12 < arjancwidlak> instead of 
03:12 < arjancwidlak> foreach my $field (@{WebGUI::ProfileField->getEditableFields($session)}) {
03:12 < arjancwidlak> i tried to use
03:12 < arjancwidlak> my $params = $session->form->paramsHashRef;
03:12 < arjancwidlak> in my own my_validateProfileData
03:12 < arjancwidlak> however ...
03:13 <@preaction> then we go back to the original problem
03:13 < arjancwidlak> I also neded my own formProcess
03:13 < arjancwidlak> etc. 
03:13 < arjancwidlak> Yes, we're back to the original problem
03:13 < arjancwidlak> I tried to solve it by
03:14 < arjancwidlak> doing first a loop 
03:14 < arjancwidlak>  foreach my $field (keys %{$params}) {
03:14 < arjancwidlak> and then a loop 
03:14 < arjancwidlak> foreach my $profileField (@{WebGUI::ProfileField->getEditableFields($session)}) {
03:14 < arjancwidlak> but in the first loop
03:14 < arjancwidlak> i have to get rid of the 'other' 
03:14 < arjancwidlak> values
03:14 < arjancwidlak> such as
03:14 < arjancwidlak> the hidden fields
03:14 < arjancwidlak> and of course i have to strip off _file
03:15 < arjancwidlak> but only when it's a file
03:15 <@preaction> why not keep your first loop and then instead of adding a second loop do:
03:15 <@preaction> next unless grep { $_ eq $field } @{WebGUI::ProfileField->getEditableFields($session)}
03:15 <@preaction> i don't know if that sub returns names or objects though
03:15 <@preaction> you might have to make it a map
03:16 <@preaction> a la: grep { } map { $_->getId } @{WebGUI::ProfileField->getEditableFields};
03:16 < arjancwidlak> objects, but you can do:  $profileField->getId
03:17 <@preaction> then it'd probably be more efficient to instanciate them once outside the loop, so my @editableFields = @{WebGUI::ProfileField->getEditableFields}; and then inside the loop: next unless grep { $_ eq $field } @editableFields;
03:18 < arjancwidlak> That would probably do it. And then of course match on the hidden fields and match on xxxxx_file
03:18 < arjancwidlak> to exclude the hidden fields
03:18 < arjancwidlak> and to get the right name for the file fields
03:19 <@preaction> there isn't a hidden field with the user's storageId?
03:19 < arjancwidlak> Does $profileField->get("fieldType"); return "file" on files?
03:19 <@preaction> the entire className actually
03:19 <@preaction> WebGUI::Form::File (or WebGUI::Form::Image)
03:20 <@preaction> so $profileField->get("fieldType")->isa("WebGUI::Form::File") would tell you if it's a type of file upload control
03:20 <@preaction> (either file or image)
03:20 < arjancwidlak> Why would you need a hidden field with the user's storageId?
03:21 < arjancwidlak> Do you mean a users storageId or a avatar or file storageId?
03:22 < perlmonkey2> Anyone who's familiar with the survey code, is the only purpose of the Survey Section to allow forking of the survey's path?
03:25 <@preaction> arjancwidlak, i mean the avatar/file storageId. i thought it re-used the same one each time
03:25 < arjancwidlak> No, it's not in a hidden field, but it's easy to get.
03:25 < arjancwidlak> and to set
03:26 < arjancwidlak> I want to both delete and add a new file in one routine, as opposed to giving a new page and upload then
03:26 < arjancwidlak> I don't think that's a problem
03:26 <@preaction> now the problem is that it's established as a practice to not be required to have at least one field with the actual name
03:27 <@preaction> damnit, i just forgot something i had to tell my new tenant... brb
03:27 <@preaction> er.. remembered that i forgot
03:27 <@preaction> (she has to call to put utilities in her name)
03:27 < arjancwidlak> sorry if I kept you up, you've helped me a lot, thanks
03:28 <@preaction> nono, i'll be back, but i still think the best solution to this problem is what i outlined earlier (giving names to a macro and altering validateProfileData to take an arrayref of profile field names)
03:29 <@preaction> i think i might be able to persuade JT to put a solution like that into the core, citing "Allows Admins to create mini-panels for specific profile fields, making the profile system more powerful"
03:29 < arjancwidlak> Yes, a good argument might be: other systems can
03:29 < arjancwidlak> I know of one, I can look it up if you like
03:30 <@preaction> and hold you as an example of "other people are already bending WebGUI to do it"
03:30 <@preaction> i mean, like the rat problem, for every one you see, there's a dozen you don't ;)
03:30 <@preaction> (not to compare you to a rat, of course)
03:30 <@preaction> ;)
03:30 < arjancwidlak> Thanx
03:31 <@preaction> though in software it's more like 1:1000
03:31 < arjancwidlak> I'm going to make my own validateProfileData in the macro, as an exercise
03:31 < arjancwidlak> I'm going to look how to grep { } map { $_->getId }
03:31 < arjancwidlak> +@{WebGUI::ProfileField->getEditableFields};
03:32 <@preaction> there's 19 non-bot, non-staff, non-PBWG in here, and an order of magnitude more people actually using webgui
03:32 <@preaction> anyway, gotta run downstairs, good luck and we'll be here if you run into any more snags
03:32 < arjancwidlak> Good luck, thanx
03:32 <@preaction> if you need just Perl code advice, the people in #perl are usually friendly (if you've read the perldoc and googled first)
03:36 < perlmonkey2> There are only 190 people using WebGUI?
03:36 < perlmonkey2> This is disturbing.
03:36 < arjancwidlak> 190, that's just my customerbase
03:37 < arjancwidlak> And yes, it is disturbing it's not more
03:37 < perlmonkey2> arjancwidlak: Holy crap.  You have 190 clients?  
03:37 < arjancwidlak> ;
03:37 < arjancwidlak> )
03:37 < perlmonkey2> You provide WebGUI to clients?  Self employed?
03:38 < arjancwidlak> We provide webgui to goverment agencies
03:38 < arjancwidlak> In many forms, many don't even know it's webgui
03:38 < perlmonkey2> You work for PlainBlack?
03:38 < arjancwidlak> No, United Knowledge
03:38 <@preaction> that's what i was thinking of
03:39 < arjancwidlak> ;)
03:39 <@preaction> is procolix another company
03:39 <@preaction> ?
03:39 < arjancwidlak> Yes it is, it's Koen's company (Sync on iRC)
03:39 <@preaction> ah
03:39 < arjancwidlak> And you know of course Pluton and Oqapi?
03:39 <@preaction> nope
03:39 <@preaction> AMH?
03:40 <@preaction> so we're up to 6?
03:40 < arjancwidlak> Yes, you do, Oqapi is where Martin works Greasehead or so on IRC
03:40 < arjancwidlak> Pluton is another company that comes from Procolix. 
03:40 <@preaction> ah
03:40 < arjancwidlak> Procolix broke into three companies
03:40 <@preaction> do they provide WebGUI support and devel, or just use webgui?
03:41 < arjancwidlak> Procolix does mostly hosting, oqapi mostly programming and pluton testing
03:41 < arjancwidlak> whats AMH?
03:41 <@preaction> i mean, the end-user base of webgui probably numbers in the millions, i know over the entire plainblack board we can account for a couple hundred thousand end-users
03:42 < arjancwidlak> wow, that's a lot
03:42 <@preaction> i don't know, maybe it's AHM, but there's a couple users on the IRC channel that come in early morning US-Central tagged as AMH_<name>
03:42 <@preaction> the United States Department of State uses WebGUI nearly exclusively
03:42 <@preaction> all the US Embassy websites, the DoS Alumni site (which accounts for about 40,000 users by itself)
03:42 < arjancwidlak> what is an end use in your difinition, a content manager?
03:43 <@preaction> a visitor
03:43 < arjancwidlak> A visitor?????
03:43 <@preaction> well, more like a registered user
03:43 < arjancwidlak> Than we might beat you!
03:43 <@preaction> oh, i have no doubt of that
03:44 < arjancwidlak> We did a project for the dutch governemnt this year with a lot of media coverage. There were hunderds of thousands then
03:44 <@preaction> i mean, we have our other contracts, but mostly company intranet stuff (a few hundred to a thousand users)
03:44 < arjancwidlak> I'm going to do my first intranet this month
03:45 <@preaction> brunswick bowling is one of ours, i think they didn't do the store with us because Commerce sucks currently
03:45 < arjancwidlak> You know what you might find interesting
03:45 <@preaction> either that or they just didn't want to pay for it, because they could've used what's there currently just fine
03:46 < arjancwidlak> You will be on the WUC Doug?
03:46 <@preaction> oh yes
03:46 < arjancwidlak> Ok, me too
03:46 <@preaction> i've got three talks, some of the most technical ones imho
03:46 < arjancwidlak> I'm very much looking forward to it
03:46 <@preaction> the one on Merging WebGUI Sites promises to be fun, i've got some tricks on how to split WebGUI sites too
03:46 < arjancwidlak> I'm not much of a programmer. I didn't program on WebGUi for one and a half year, but now Yung is in Brazil...
03:47 < arjancwidlak> I'm really fond of programming again
03:47 <@preaction> sigh... i want to expatriate so badly... :p
03:47 < arjancwidlak> Why?
03:48 <@preaction> the reason i've come up with previously is the age of this country: 250 years give-or-take. the region i'm in, a little less than 200
03:48 < arjancwidlak> Do you live near Madion?
03:49 <@preaction> yeah, about 2 hours away (130 miles, maybe 250km)
03:49 <@preaction> only in the last 50 years or so did this country's usable, viable land become completely settled
03:50 <@preaction> all that's left to do is re-divide the pieces, and the beginning of that process is always the worst
03:50 < arjancwidlak> Ok, I'm going for a ride of a week by motercicle through the area just before the WUC. It seed that way on Google Maps
03:51 < arjancwidlak> seemd I mean
03:51 <@preaction> yeah
03:51 <@preaction> south would be the best way, October in Wisconsin starts getting a bit chilly, 55-60 degrees farenheit
03:52 <@preaction> but then, the breadbasket / bible belt states are rather uneventful
03:52 <@preaction> in kansas you're lucky to see a tree for miles ;)
03:52 <@preaction> but then again, i live here
03:53 < arjancwidlak> I'm going from Chicago to Columbus Ohio and from there via a d-tour to Madison. Don't know yet which route
03:53 <@preaction> chicago's fun though, going down Hwy 41 through milwaukee to chicago you see a lot of the old stuff
03:54 <@preaction> chicago is between columbus and madison though, going to go south after columbus and then north through illinois?
03:54 < arjancwidlak> Ok, I see it on Google maps
03:54 < arjancwidlak> I'm landing - I'm coming from Amsterdam
03:54 < arjancwidlak> in Chicago
03:55 < arjancwidlak> and go first to Indianapolis to Columbus
03:55 < arjancwidlak> Is landing correct English? Arriving I mean
03:55 <@preaction> yeah
03:56 <@preaction> landing in chicago, driving through indianapolis to columbus, i'd suggest after that going south a bit to get some different scenery, perhaps along the ohio river until it meets up with the mississippi river, and then north, but i don't know how long that would take in total
03:59 <@preaction> west of the mississippi river is rather boring until you hit the rocky mountains
03:59 <@preaction> which is to be expected, history's a funny thing
04:00 < arjancwidlak> Well from Columbus to Memphis is 9 hours
04:00 < arjancwidlak> I've got 5 days
04:00 <@preaction> oh jeebus, you could go down to florida if you wanted
04:00 < arjancwidlak> Not on a moter bike
04:01 < arjancwidlak> I would be dead
04:01 <@preaction> oh, right
04:01 <@preaction> 17 hours driving a car is enough to make me question my sanity
04:01 <@preaction> motorbike would be alittle harder
04:02 < arjancwidlak> Last year, when the WUC was in vegas i wanted to do the route 66
04:02 < arjancwidlak> but I didn't get my licence in time
04:02 < arjancwidlak> so I had to do it by care
04:02 < arjancwidlak> But this year...
04:02 < arjancwidlak> I's a fatboy
04:02 <@preaction> you might be able to make it all the way to Memphis, then up through St. Louis
04:02 < arjancwidlak> Yes, that seems like a plan, just right
04:03 <@preaction> unless you wanted to stop in Atlanta
04:03 <@preaction> but that would be kinda back-tracking
04:03 < arjancwidlak> atlanta is worth-while?
04:03 <@preaction> it's big
04:03 <@preaction> i dunno if it's worth-while, what's your goal of sights to see?
04:04 <@preaction> memphis has a lot of Elvis stuff last i knew
04:04 <@preaction> St Louis is a historical place (the gateway through which everyone went West during the settling of California, etc...)
04:04 < arjancwidlak> Well, Chicago seems a very beautiful city. I like the small roads, beautifull landscape
04:05 <@preaction> it is very beautiful, if a bit windy by the bay
04:05 <@preaction> but a long-sleeve shirt / light jacket will get you through fine there
04:05 < arjancwidlak> Ok, wrote it down, I'll tell you about it in oktober
04:05 <@preaction> there's some wonderful stuff by the bay, Sears Tower, etc...
04:07 <@preaction> isn't next year's in houston? then you can hang out on the bay and hit Louisiana and even florida if desired
04:07 < arjancwidlak> Is it?
04:07 <@preaction> tour the old south
04:08 < arjancwidlak> I didn't really like florida and Texas to be honest
04:08 < arjancwidlak> Not the landscape, but the poverty
04:08 <@preaction> really?
04:08 < arjancwidlak> There seems to be a lot of working poor
04:08 <@preaction> well, that is the old sourth
04:08 <@preaction> i've got a theory that as mean temperature increases, the intelligence necessary to survive decreases
04:09 < arjancwidlak> Haha!
04:09 < arjancwidlak> It's a dilbert law
04:09 <@preaction> not to call them "stupid" flat-out, but it's just easier to survive down there. homeless people up here who get their coat stolen in winter will freeze to death
04:09 <@preaction> down there you can just about sleep stark and you'll be just fine
04:10 < arjancwidlak> It's becoming a bit late here, 3 am. I'm going to do some sleeping I think
04:10 <@preaction> sounds good, good luck with the code. have fun
04:11 < arjancwidlak> Thanx, nice talking to you
04:11 < arjancwidlak> nite
04:11 <@preaction> night
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16:29 <+MrHairgrease> hi
16:30 <+MrHairgrease> is there a native english speaker awake?
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18:42 < s1037989> Can MySQL 4.1 be used with WebGUI 7.3.9?
18:43 < MrHairgreas1> probaly not
18:43 < MrHairgreas1> mysql 5 is required
18:44 < s1037989> Bummer...!  :)
18:44 < s1037989> Thanks.
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--- Day changed Mon Aug 27 2007
00:18 < perlmonkey2> Anyone familiar with the survey code?  I'm trying to figure out how it is possible for the questionOrder to be anything besides sequential.
00:26 <@preaction> i thought that was a feature you were adding
00:27 < perlmonkey2> preaction: I'm trying to grok what the old survey did in fullness.
00:28 < perlmonkey2> But now I'm sure I shouldn't worry too much about the old survey.
00:31 < perlmonkey2> Is there a policy on DB comments?
00:31 < perlmonkey2> Because I don't see any, but I usually comment my columns in the DB.
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16:03 < SDuensin> Greetings.
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16:04 < AMH_henry> [Good|<whatever is appropriate>] morning!
16:05 < SDuensin> hehe
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18:50 < danny_mk> preaction:  where is the "create table Chat..." sql?
18:51 < danny_mk>  Root cause: Table 'webgui.Chat' doesn't exist
18:51 <@preaction> oh, that's gone
18:51 <@preaction> i'll dig up a dump of the current state of those tables
18:52 < danny_mk> ok, just send it to me when you get a chance.
18:52 < danny_mk> or post it here so I can download it.
18:52 < danny_mk> brb
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19:12 < elnino> good morning!
19:13 < elnino> I'm experiencing two problems, that I need to fix, I really can't wait for plainblack to get to them, because we are going live with our site in a week.  Am I interrupting a conversation?
19:13 <@preaction> perlbot ask
19:13 < perlbot> Ask forth your question to the all-knowing channel and we shall bestow upon you the answer of correctitude.
19:13 < elnino> =)
19:14 < elnino> we have a collaboration system that we use for pressreleases.
19:15 < elnino> I display the RSS on our site, and according to the help files, it should be displaying the synopsis of each thread(?) but it displays the entire thread.
19:15 < elnino> If you actually go to view the thread listing, it displays the synopsis, so I know that the ^-; macro is in  place correctly. I hope I'm using the terms correctly.
19:17 < elnino> It used to work in 7.2.x but I have 7.3.22. and it broke somewhere.
19:17 < elnino> I believe is what you'd call a "thread"
19:18 <@preaction> go to the edit page for that collab system and look at the display tab, RSS template. what does that say?
19:19 <@preaction> you may also want to look at the error log
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19:23 < elnino> syndicared articles is the template, and interleaved id the disply ode
19:25 < elnino> interleaved is the display mode, that is.
19:26 <@preaction> oh, you're using the syndicated content wobject, why don't you just make a shortcut to the collab system?
19:28 < elnino> I don't know if i understand. I want to summarize the the latest pressreleses on the one page, then when the user goes to the cs, ttheysee all the summaries. did that answer your question?
19:29 < elnino> the first page that has the "latest" also contains the "latest news from other areas of the website" similareto what you've done on plainblacks support sit.
19:31 < elnino> sorry, i'm typing one handed. =(
19:32 <@preaction> do you have a URL to the RSS feed i can see?
19:34 < elnino> site is beind a firewall, will be live in a week or two. It basically displays the full disecription as one blurp (no paragraph marks) for the top 3 or 4 press releases.
19:38 < elnino> preaction, what did you mean by a shortcut?
19:39 <@preaction> RSS isn't supposed to have HTML in it
19:40 <@preaction> a shortcut asset to the collaboration system
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19:40 <@preaction> then you could put in some overrides to make it display only what you want
19:40 <@preaction> (like Threads Per Page override and Collaboration Template override)
19:41 <@preaction> RSS isn't supposed to have HTML in it, so that's the only way you're going to be able to do what you want
19:43 < elnino> you say it shouldn't have html in it. I'm a bit confused. the problem I'm having is that it displays the entire description, rather than the synopsis. according to the docs, that's what it should be doing.
19:44 < elnino> according to the docs, it should be displying the synopsis. - to clarify.
19:45 < elnino> it used to work in 7.2.1
19:47 < elnino> docs = the cs rss template help page
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19:54 < elnino> I think I found the culprit at one time. the template calls for "descripton", but in the help file says it returns the synopsis. In the code there was a point where it went to get the fields in the hash and the hash uses the field name "decription" so it would the get "description" instead of "synospsis". I found this in RSSFromParent.pm.
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19:58 < elnino> so, if at the time it gets the tmpl var description I force it to get the synopsis (per the help file) I think that will fix it? I think the problem arises that the tmpl var name and what it's supposed to get are mixed up. They should both be "synopsis"
19:58 <@preaction> elnino, in lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Collaboration.pm line 777 it puts the thread's "synopsis" field into the RSS feed's "description" field
19:59 <@preaction> the RSS feed uses the RSS standard's names (which calls the field "description" and not "synopsis")
20:01 < elnino> what version are you looking at?
20:01 <@preaction> 7.3.22
20:02 <@preaction> it's in the getRssItems subroutine
20:04 < elnino> are you saying that it should be working?  I know that the ^-; is in placebecause the synopsis displyes correctly on the cs listing.
20:05 < elnino> in the rssfromparent.pm file it looks like though it's potentially mistakenly getting description (when itloops thru a hash) Am I looking at is that the wrong code?
20:06 < elnino> sorry - Am I looking at the wrong code?
20:07 <@preaction> line 123, the $item that RSSFromParent gets back from the getRssItems is a hashref
20:07 <@preaction> but even if it's an actual WebGUI::Asset, _tlsOfAsset returns the Title, Link, and Synopsis
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20:16 < elnino> Hi. I'll have to look again, I'm thinking that it's line 123 that I'm concerned about. Do you know what fields it's requesting from that hash ref? if it's requesting description, it's going to get description, instead of the synopsis. 
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20:45 < elnino> oh. see. you're saying that because it's an rss feed of a webgui asset, line 120 is being called? I'm telling ya, it's returning description for some reason. Perhaps the part of getting "synopsis" is broken... Is it ignoring the ^-; macro?. This is geting too deep for me, but I need to somehow get this fixed. I'm assuming that we're rssfromparen is the correct code. Where is get defined? would that be Asset.pm or Collaboration.pm?
20:46 < xootom> Does anyone know if it's possible to calculate a total of values, that are pulled out of a nested query in an SQL Report? I have query 1 returning a list of groups. Then query 2 returns a number for each group identified in query 1. Is it possible to total up the numbers returned each time from query 2? query 1 and 2 are executed on different databases.
20:47 < xootom> e.g. can I use HTML::Template to accumulate a total from the query2 value on each iteration?
20:47 <@preaction> xootom, mysql has a SUM() function
20:47 <@preaction> HTML::Template cannot, but Template Toolkit can
20:47 < xootom> yeah but that would only be a sum within the nested query 2
20:47 <@preaction> elnino, i've been over the code, it's getting the "synopsis" field. by default the synopsis field is filled in with the "bodyText" field (Posts are assets, not wobjects, and have no description field) minus all the HTML
20:48 < elnino> Dang it. Is this where I get kicked out?  you're right - it is getting it. However I did find a "real" bug in all this. It seems that whenyou modify one of those items in the CS system, you have to reinsert the ^-; each time, or else it looses it. Hence why I saw the enire description field.
20:49 <@preaction> i don't know what ^-; is. it doesn't seem to be a core macro
20:49 <@preaction> but, as part of stripping the HTML, it probably strips macros
20:49 < elnino> It's the page break you are supposed to enter in the description field to mark where the "synopsis" ends.  Am I going crazy?? I read that too in your docs, cause I thought iw as cool!
20:49 <@preaction> no, i just don't know everything
20:49 <@preaction> but that would be a bug then, if the ^-; gets removed every time
20:49 < elnino> I wonder if that is what these people were talking about in this bug report: http://www.webgui.org/bugs/tracker/auto-generated-synopsis-not-re-generated-after-edit 
20:49 < elnino> I really didn't know what they meant by "autogenerated" synopsis. 
20:49 < elnino> where is the code for stripping HTML kept? maybe I can fix that...
20:49 <@preaction> no, i think the fix for that bug helped create this new bug
20:50 <@preaction> it's in WebGUI::HTML
20:50 <@preaction> the fix for that bug caused the synopsis to be re-generated every time the description field changes. now we have the problem where the description field loses the marker. before it wasn't a problem because the synopsis never got updated
20:50 <@preaction> (which is why it worked in 7.2.1 and doesn't work now)
20:50 < elnino> ah. 
20:50 < elnino> So I have nother question... but you may have answered it but I guess I need to understand a little more..
20:50 < elnino> In the same rss feed created from the cs sytem, my html characters are not displaying correctly. And you mentioned that rss shouldn't contain html.
20:50 < elnino> I'll buy that, but I thought I read somewhere, that if I add ESCAPE="HTML" that it would allow &, and > and < type charcters to display, but instead it escaped the ampersand that is used to display those charactes. So instad of a registered mark: &reg;, I'll get &#x26;reg; So it seems that it's doing double duty.
20:51 < elnino> so maybe if I find a different code for &reg; it'll work?
20:51 <@preaction> no, the escaping should be done for you. RSS is an XML format, and so can contain XML entities (which &reg; is)
20:51 < elnino> hmm. do I dare say that's not working in 7.3.22?
20:52 < elnino> - in the syndicated content asset of a webgui asset - 
20:53 <@preaction> it's not the syndicated content wobject that does the escaping, it's the RSSFromParent
20:53 <@preaction> and i wouldn't doubt at all that it's not working right
20:53 <@preaction> in fact, i think the bug was squashed by requiring escape="html"
20:54 <@preaction> so that'd be another bug
20:54 < elnino> Right, that's what I put in the template for the syndicated artcile templete, and that's where I got the "double" affect.
20:56 <@preaction> no, escape="HTML" should be in the RSS feed template
20:57 < elnino> oh. I'll try that.
20:57 < xootom> am i right in sqlreports can't replace/insert/update etc
20:57 <@preaction> xootom, yes
20:58 < xootom> that's irritating, perhaps its rollover help should be updated, it says you can use whatever keywords are defined in the database link
20:58 < xootom> it would work but appears to add a limit to the end of all queries
20:58 < xootom> which breaks a replace i need to do
20:59 <@preaction> looks like nothing is explicitly forbidding insert / update
21:00 <@preaction> you may want to turn on debug mode?
21:00 < xootom> Error: There was a problem with the query. You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'limit 0,25' at line 2
21:01 <@preaction> sounds like you've got an error in your sql syntax
21:01 <@Haaarg> it always adds the limit
21:01 <@Haaarg> there isn't a way to tell it not to
21:01 < xootom> that's what's breaking the query
21:01 < xootom> hmmm
21:01 <@Haaarg> that's possibly a bug
21:02 <@Haaarg> that behavior changed at some point i believe
21:02 < xootom> i'll raise it thanks
21:04 < elnino> preaction - thanks! That was the trick!  you answered all my questions. Thank you for being patient with me.
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21:12 < danny_mk> hmmm.... the encrypt login seems to have been removed in 7.4.x 
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21:45 <@rizen> danny_mk check the change log
21:51 < xootom> i've got a basic navigation problem, i think i'm just being dumb. I have lots of subsites starting at /home/sites/site1, /home/sites/site2, /home/sites/site3. I have a single template on all the sites, with a navigation asset, it is set to show relative to root /a/b/c. But it only ever shows the menu of site1, even if you're in the branch of site2 or site3. How does it know to go down branch "site1", yet it's in the correct bra
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21:54 < danny_mk> Hmmm... I checked the gotchas but not the changelog.
21:54 < danny_mk> OK, thanks.
21:55 <+crythias> :)
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21:58 < wgGuest19> Couldn't call method editSave on asset for url: /getting_started/getting-started Root cause: Transactions not supported by database at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.6/i386-linux/DBI.pm line 1632.
21:58 < wgGuest19> I'm using MySQL 5.0.45
21:58 <+crythias> not just there
21:58 <+crythias> I'm having a feeling you have multiple mysqls
21:58 < wgGuest19> I've read that MyISAM doesn't support transactions, which is what the create.sql file specifies.  Does that make sense?
22:00 < wgGuest19> Multiple mysqls?
22:00 <+crythias> I could be wrong. 
22:00 < wgGuest19> Does webgui require a DB that can handle transactions?
22:00 < wgGuest19> I'm using 7.4.4.
22:01 <+crythias> yes. 
22:01 <@preaction> no, webgui requires MyISAM
22:01 < wgGuest19> So therefore it should not be using MyISAM for the engine, correct?
22:01 <@preaction> InnoDB won't work with webgui
22:01 <+crythias> but generally speaking, MySQL 5 should be able to do it, but not MySQL 3
22:02 <+crythias> ooh. http://www.freedomtoaster.org/home
22:03 <@preaction> that is pretty awesome
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22:35 < wgGuest19> I've tried MySQL 5.0.45 straight from mysql.com, 5.0.4 from my distro RPMS, and 4.1.12 from my distro RPMs and they all give the same thing:
22:35 < wgGuest19> main::[[undef]] - Couldn't call method editSave on asset for url: /getting_started/getting-started Root cause: Transactions not supported by database at /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.6/i386-linux/DBI.pm line 1632.
22:38 <@rizen> are you creating innodb?
22:38 <@rizen> databases?
22:39 <@rizen> if so don't
22:51 < wgGuest19> No, create.sql specifies MyISAM for the engine.
22:51 < wgGuest19> I'm just importing create.sql.
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23:03 <@Haaarg> might try making sure you have an up to date DBD::mysql
23:04 < danny_mk> yeah!  that got me one time too.  Definitely make sure you have an updated DBD::mysql
23:05 < wgGuest19> Hmm..  I just updated from CPAN, 4.004 or something.
23:07 < wgGuest19> 4.005
23:09 <@Haaarg> you might need to update the mysql client libraries first
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23:17 < wgGuest19> I'm running 5.0.4...?
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23:39 < xooto1> a quick navigation question, i've got a templated navigation on some pages, and want it to show a submenu which is the current page url +/extras .. i'm thinking this would work as "Specific url" with start point of ^PageURL();extras but it doesn't seem to work, should it?
23:40 < wgGuest19> Thanks for the help, I've got it working!
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23:57 < xooto1> is it intentional that the webgui image selector in the richedit inserts the current version of an asset rather than its 'public url' which reflects changes to the asset
--- Day changed Tue Aug 28 2007
00:06 < xooto1> does anyone know whether the start page in a navigation object, specific url is relative to the current url?
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02:11 < BobSilva> Anyone got some time for a newbie?
02:20 <@khenn> what's up Bob?
02:22 < BobSilva> Hi Khenn, thanks for responding...
02:22 < BobSilva> I just got a Source INstall up and running   7.4.3...
02:23 < BobSilva> I'm starting to play with it and running into troubles...  Undoubtedly config and pilot error...
02:23 < BobSilva> I can't get pending versions to commit and appear...
02:23 < BobSilva> I just discovered...
02:24 < BobSilva>  Couldn't create storage location: /data/WebGUI/cimarron-hoa.dyndns.org/uploads/Fj/bV/FjbVxKrT6Zvv9bc7GBf0qw : No such file or directory
02:24 < BobSilva> So, I'm working that one at the moment...
02:24 < BobSilva> But, I think I have a bigger problem...
02:25 < BobSilva> I'd like to actually nuke all these pending versions, but can't seem to find a way to do that....  Suggestions?
02:26 <@khenn> sounds like you don't have spectre running correctly
02:26 <@khenn> though the storage location issue may be something else
02:26 <@khenn> check the privileges of the uploads folder
02:26 <@khenn> it should belong to nobody
02:26 <@khenn> or whatever user you run apache under
02:26 <@khenn> typically that is nobody
02:27 <@khenn> to figure out what is wrong with spectre, you should enable INFO level in log.conf
02:27 <@khenn> I believe it defaults to WARN
02:27 <@khenn> just change that text to INFO
02:27 <@khenn> and restart modperl
02:27 <@khenn> may want to restart spectre as well
02:28 <@khenn> you should start seeing more information about what is causing spectre to fail
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03:08 < BobSilva> I'm sorry....  I got pulled intoa conference call...
03:10 < BobSilva> According to my httpd.conf, it's apache / apache...  (Running CentOS)
03:11 < BobSilva> OK, perms changed...
03:13 < BobSilva> OK,, changed log level and restarted apache / spectre...
03:14 < BobSilva> khenn, you still with me?
03:15 < BobSilva> I have three pending versions out there....  Can I nuke them?  Or what can I do to get them processed?
03:16 <@preaction> fix the error that's causing them to not process?
03:16 <@preaction> go to WebGUI/sbin and run "perl spectre.pl --test" and "perl spectre.pl --status"
03:16 <@preaction> then look at the webgui.log
03:16 < BobSilva> Will do...  Just a sec...
03:17 < BobSilva> ERROR: Spectre cannot communicate with WebGUI. 
03:17 <@preaction> that's bad
03:17 <@preaction> what does the webgui.log say
03:17 < BobSilva> Well, THAT would seem to be a problem...  :)
03:18 < BobSilva> WebGUI::Session::ErrorHandler::warn[430] - Visitor (1) connecting from 71.236.251.28 attempted to make a Spectre workflow runner request, but we're only allowed to accept requests from 127.0.0.1/32.
03:18 <@preaction> yes, that is'
03:18 <@preaction> so now you want to add that IP address to the spectreSubnets in the webgui configuration file
03:19 < BobSilva> the 71 IP is the firewall
03:19 <@preaction> okay, does your computer know that it's yourdomain.com ?
03:19 < BobSilva> But that's the public side of the FW....  That doesn't seem to be secure, no?
03:19 <@preaction> is yourdomain.com in your /etc/hosts file?
03:19 < BobSilva> Nope...  :)
03:19 <@preaction> that's bad too
03:19 <@preaction> but that should fix it
03:20 < BobSilva> preaction, I'm sorry but I have to run...   I have family in town and I have to go tend to them...
03:20 < BobSilva> Thanks for your help...
03:20 < BobSilva> I'll try some more tomorrow...
03:20 < BobSilva> I'll try your suggestions...
03:20 <@preaction> adding the domain to /etc/hosts will fix it
03:20 < BobSilva> Thanks, again, Bye...
03:20 <@preaction> or at least reveal new problems
03:20 <@preaction> have fun
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05:43 < BobSilva> preaction, you there?
05:43 <@preaction> yes
05:43 < BobSilva> Just thought I'd let you know, /etc/hosts solved problem #1....
05:43 < BobSilva> perl spectre.pl --test works now...
05:43 < BobSilva> I'm waiting for it's queue to drain and then I'll start testing again...
05:44 < BobSilva> Thanks for you help...
05:46 < BobSilva> Yes, no more pending versions and the content is there...
05:46 < BobSilva> Thanks again!
05:46 < BobSilva> Bye,,,
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06:09 < nuba> preaction> or at least reveal new problems
06:09 < nuba> heh. so true, such is life.. :)
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14:38 < Radix-europe> Greetings from Vienna (and the YAPC::Europe)
14:39 < AMH_bob> Hi Radix
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17:07 < danny_mk> OK, I did find the part that states "Fixed behaviour of the Encrypt Login setting, in such way that only the form" however, where in the "Site settings" do I specify that the use MUST use ssl to login?
17:07 < danny_mk> I did look at the changelog documents
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17:53 < wgGuest30> hello
17:53 < wgGuest30> ww
17:53 < wgGuest30> i would like some help with the templates
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17:57 < danny_mk> what do you need?
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--- Day changed Wed Aug 29 2007
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06:27 < elnino> hello! Am I interrupting anything?
06:27 < elnino> quick question - honest - is there a setting in webgui so that the rank also specifies the order on which the asset is on a pagelayout? 
06:28 < rizen_> nope
06:28 < rizen_> rank doesn't have anything to do with the order of assets on a page
06:28 < rizen_> that's what drag and drop placement is for
06:28 < elnino> bummer. reason i ask is that it would be alot faster to reorder page elements in the asset tree than on the actual page
06:29 < rizen_> the problem is that you have multiple content positions on a page
06:29 < rizen_> and rank is only one number
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06:30 < elnino> I kinda figured. Thanks and bye.
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16:09 < perlmonkey2> Rank ordering assets?  Only on a single column template.  And faster?  Maybe on a really slow machine that can't do javascript drag an drop fast.
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16:25 < SDuensin> Morning
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16:32 < AMH_bob> Afternoon
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17:52 < dionak> hey guys. i need to pick someone's brain about subclassing SQLForm. I created a SQLFormMailExt in Assets/Wobjects/ and wrote a test. Tests are passing. I uploaded this to a client site, added it to the config. All is fine but when I try to add the new wobject, I get 'duplicate entry' errors for the SQLForm table. 
17:53 <@rizen> I'm not sure if the SQL Form was designed to be subclassed
17:54 <@rizen> You'll have to ask MrHairgrease if he's around, as he wrote it.
17:54  * MrHairgrease is around but too busy to get his brains picked
17:54 <+MrHairgrease> my only suggestion is that you check out processPropertiesFromFormPost
17:54 < dionak> ok, i'll look. thanks. 
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> the error is likely due to the asset being tried to be inserted twice in the SQLForm table
17:55 <@rizen> dionak, I'd also look at the definition() method to make sure it's accepting def data from upstream classes
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> the ppffp of your subclass
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> should leave the SQLForm table alone
17:55 <+MrHairgrease> that too
17:56 < dionak> i didn't create a ppffp in the subclass but i'll look at the code. 
17:57 < dionak> rizen...def data from upstream classes?
17:58 < dionak> SUPER::definition ?
17:58 <@rizen> yes
17:58 <@rizen> but more importantly
17:58 <@rizen> the definition method must accept an array reference being passed into it
17:58 <@rizen> from your class
17:58 <@rizen> you did create a definition method in your subclass, right?
17:59 <@rizen> That's required of all subclasses
17:59 < dionak> yes, i did. i have $definition as the third argument to the definition method
17:59 < dionak> then i'm just pushing on to this var. just like in SQLForm.pm
17:59 <@rizen> third?
17:59 <+MrHairgrease> is the Inbox template ocumented?
18:00 <+MrHairgrease> documented*
18:00 < dionak> yes, class, session and definition
18:00 <@rizen> oh
18:00 <@rizen> sorry, i don't count class as an argument
18:00 <@rizen> perhaps i should
18:00 < dionak> then i changed className and assetName in the definition
18:00 <@rizen> but what i really mean was
18:00 <@rizen> your def method has the following line:
18:00 <@rizen> return $class->SUPER::definition($session,$definition);
18:01 < dionak> got it..
18:01 <@rizen> and make sure the SQLForm's def method is designed
18:01 <+MrHairgrease> you must also change tableName
18:01 <@rizen> to accept that data
18:01 <@rizen> inbox should be documented
18:01 < dionak> it's there. i 
18:01 <@rizen> if it's not please file a bug
18:01 < dionak> can't use the same table?
18:01 <@rizen> no
18:01 <@rizen> every class must have it's own table
18:01 < dionak> oh. 
18:02 <@rizen> even if that table only includes assetId and revisionDate
18:02 < dionak> that's probably the issue right there. 
18:02 < dionak> ok, thanks for the help!
18:02 <@rizen> yw
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21:50 < knowmad> I have an error in webgui.log that i want to get a stack backtrace on. What's the best way to do this?
21:50 <@preaction> use Carp qw(verbose); <- might work
21:50 <@rizen> turn on debug in your log
21:50 <@rizen> OR
21:50 <@rizen> turn on debug mode in your web site
21:50 <@rizen> but use the ip filtering option so that the debug only shows for you
21:51 < knowmad> thanks, i'll try these.
21:52 < knowmad> debug mode on in the site only shows the webgui.log output, it doesn't give me a backtrace
21:54 <@rizen> it gives you the backtrace also
21:54 <@rizen> just that you have to find it in the debug below
21:54 <@rizen> debug is the grey area at the bottom
21:54 < knowmad> it went red, green, yellow.
21:55 <@rizen> and below that there was nothing?
21:55 < knowmad> i guess that's more purplish than green but there's no grey area with a backtrace.
21:55 < knowmad> here's the error --- Couldn't execute operation : WebGUI::Operation::User::www_editUser. Root cause: The 'hour' parameter (undef) to DateTime::new was an 'undef', which is not one of the allowed types: scalar
21:56 < knowmad> i reported the bug but graham couldn't replicate. i think i got a user into an unexpected state as this error only occurs when trying to edit this 1 user.
21:56 < knowmad> i was hoping a backtrace would help us find the problem
21:57 <@rizen> look at the userProfileData table for that user
21:57 <@rizen> see if anything looks wierd
22:00 < knowmad> birthdate = -64800
22:01 < knowmad> others are more reasonable
22:01 < knowmad> or null as in the case of Admin and Visitor
22:02 < knowmad> i have no idea how that would have happened
22:02 <@rizen> so set it to something reasonable and see if it goes away
22:04 < knowmad> no difference
22:05 < knowmad> i set it to same value as another record
22:05 <@rizen> then that's not the problem
22:05 <@rizen> perhaps it's something in the users table
22:05 <@rizen> there are a few dates in there
22:06 < knowmad> these look logical
22:06 < knowmad> dateCreated and lastUpdated
22:06 < knowmad> why do you think i'm not seeing a backtrace from debugging?
22:08 <@rizen> perhaps you're blind, or perhaps i'm stupid
22:08 <@rizen> =)
22:09 < knowmad> probably a bit of both, eh
22:09 <@rizen> but since it's not working for you, move on to the log file
22:09 < knowmad> i'm looking at the line that's causing the error msg
22:09 < knowmad> i'll just wrap it in an eval and carp 
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22:21 < wgGuest58> hello!
22:21 < wgGuest58> I upgraded from 7.3 to 7.4.3 today but I am encountering an error and I think it is in regards to JSON.
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22:23 < knowmad> did you read the README file? i think there was some info in there
22:23 < wgGuest77> I am receiving an error 1 when launching WREModPerl.  I can't seem to trace the error.  I did the forced upgrade in the gotcha file.
22:24 <@Haarg> anything in the modperl error log?
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22:25 < wgGuest77> unfortunately it is a windows box - and there aren't any errors in the event log - is there somewhere else ther might be an error log?
22:26 <@Haarg> c:\data\wre\prereqs\apache\logs\modperl.error.log
22:28 < wgGuest77> this is the error: [Wed Aug 29 11:55:47 2007] [error] Can't load Perl file: c:/data/WebGUI/sbin/preload.perl for server localhost:81, exiting...
22:29 < dionak> look in startup.pl for mod_perl...sounds like a mis-configuration.
22:29 < dionak> or that file doesn't exist. 
22:34 < wgGuest77> the only thing in startup.pl is chdir "c:/"; 1;
22:34 < wgGuest77> the file does exist
22:38 < knowmad> rizen: where is the epoch time get set? it, like birthdate, is set to -64800
22:43 < knowmad> nm, i've created a patch to fix negative epoch values. will attach it to my bug report.
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22:47 <@rizen> The negative values were probably created by a bug we had a while back
22:48 <@rizen> i remember there being a problem with birthdates
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22:51 < knowmad> ahh, i see. i'm going to supply the patch anyhow. do what you want with it.
23:02 < knowmad> should an asset that is being proxied honor version tags? we're seeing changes to an asset show up when outside the version tag when it's being included into a page via AssetProxy macro
23:03 < knowmad> in addition, we're also getting the wrong userid in the asset that is being proxied from the ^#; macro. oddly enough it works in Admin mode but not in normal mode. this is all in 7.4.4
23:05 <@rizen> yes it should honor version tags
23:06 < knowmad> it's not
23:06 < knowmad> i'll file a report. do you want us to try to recreate it on a demo site?
23:06 <@rizen> you always should
23:06 <@rizen> cuz that's what we're going to do
23:06 < knowmad> ok
23:06 <@rizen> and if we can't
23:06 <@rizen> it gets closed
23:07 < knowmad> gotcha
23:35 < knowmad> cannot replicate it on demo server. i dunno how it's happening but it's happening. only difference i can think of is that we're seeing this behavior on a Windoze server. Can't imagine why that would make a difference though.
23:38 <@rizen> you're using winblows to serve webgui?
23:38 <@rizen> on purpose?
23:38 < knowmad> client requirement
23:39 <@rizen> i suppose you then are eagerly anticipating WRE 0.8 for windows
23:39 <@rizen> since it's feature equiv to the unix version
23:40 < knowmad> yes, we are!
23:41 < knowmad> the biggest aggravation right now is the time lag required to restart the modperl server. it's like a minute or more.
23:42 < knowmad> i'm hoping 0.8 will address this somehow
23:42 <@rizen> that has nothing to do with the WRE unforuntately
23:42 <@rizen> it's a problem with mod_perl on windows
23:42 <@rizen> but we are looking at work arounds
23:43 <@rizen> the problem is that mod_perl for some reason is very slow to preload and compile all of WebGUI's prerequsite perl modules
23:43 <@rizen> if you comment out preload.perl it will start very quickly
23:44 <@rizen> we're not sure why this happens, but it is something we're trying to come up with a workaround for before 0.8 comes out
23:44 <@preaction> does apache's mod_prefork work on windows?
23:44 <@rizen> yes
23:44 <@preaction> i thought it had its own mpm for nt
23:44 <@rizen> it's a special version of it though
23:44 <@rizen> it simulates forking
23:44 <@rizen> it's not actual forking
23:44 <@rizen> behind the scenes it's using threads
23:45 <@preaction> ah, was thinking it might be preloading for every child instance
23:46 <@rizen> well it does create a child
23:46 <@rizen> so it is loading twice
23:46 <@rizen> it creates two processes
23:46 <@rizen> the parent one just distributes requests
23:46 <@rizen> and the child one spawns threads to serve the requests
23:46 <@rizen> but for whatever reason the parent process also preloads all the perl modules
23:46 <@rizen> and windows doesn't do shared memory
23:47 <@rizen> so it's loading it all twice
23:47 <@rizen> graham has been investigating this for quite a while
23:47 <@rizen> he may have more input
23:48 <@Haarg> haven't come up with any real solutions so far unfortunately
23:49 <@preaction> solution: drop support for windows and distribute vm images to run RHEL inside of a windows host :p
23:50 <@Haarg> as a long time windows user, i fully support that idea
23:51 <@rizen> i bet it would actually run faster than the native windows version
23:52 <@rizen> however, i doubt it would appease client requirements that knowmad spoke of
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23:53 <@preaction> yeah, it's just wishful thinking.
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10:41 <@preaction> perlbot .at
10:41 < perlbot> .at is Austria
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11:09 < Radix-eu> yeah, in Austria at the moment, attending YAPC::Europe
11:09 <@preaction> word
11:13 < Radix-eu> Off to Prague tomorrow
11:14 < Radix-eu> got a couple of days there, then off to Berlin for a few days
11:14 <@preaction> you put up a flickr didn't you?
11:14 <@preaction> i need pichars
11:15 < Radix-eu> yeah - there's a link from my blog if you like - http://jesseandyumi.blogspot.com
11:15 <@preaction> thanks
11:15 < Radix-eu> hundreds of photos on flickr :)
11:15 <@preaction> i'm going to have to call you a bastard repeatedly though, for actually Being In Europe... :p
11:16 < Radix-eu> hehe
11:16 < Radix-eu> I reckon I can live with that :)
11:16 < Radix-eu> Having fun.. though getting sick of museums and palaces I have to say
11:17 <@preaction> take the back roads!
11:18 <@preaction> btw, http://pown.alluc.org/?uid=620
11:18 <@preaction> long cat is looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
11:19 <@preaction> (i swear i don't know whether to act twice my age or half my age most of the time)
11:19 <@preaction> more pichar! pichars of Prague!
11:19 <@preaction> Prague is supposed to be pretty
11:19  * preaction sleeps now
11:19 < Radix-eu> Yeah, well hit prague tomorrow :)
11:19 < Radix-eu> no idea if I'll have net there tho
11:20 < Radix-eu> Same with berlin
11:20 < Radix-eu> after berlin I'll be staying with friends in the south of france tho.. so should be able to upload photos there
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19:10 < rjacobsen> sorry to bother you folks again, but i have run into another problem in webgui and i am wondering if it is a known problem...... it seems, when i use the ^include() macro to include an external page or code, that if i change the code on the page included it does not automatically update on the website.... i have to physically go to the page that has the file included and resave that page in order to see the changes... seems very odd t
19:10 < rjacobsen> hello
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19:10 < rjacobsen> hello
19:10 < rjacobsen> is anyone here?
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21:38 < dionak> quick question...maybe an obvious one. i'm trying to create a scheduled commit of a particular version tag. I looked back at last year's conference material to do this. i created a workflow, added a scheduled event and then a 'commit version tag'. how does the workflow know which tag to commit? or does it commit them all?
21:42 <@Haarg> you edit your version tag and set it to use the new workflow
22:00 < dionak> perfect! thanks. :)
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23:07 <@preaction_> though a WebGUI::Asset::File technically takes a storage location which can hold multiple files, the asset itself is meant to hold only one file, correct?
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23:08 <@preaction_> so if i were to extend the WebGUI::Asset::File::Image class to add a "caption" field, that would work, because there's only one image in the storage location
23:08 <@rizen> isn't caption the same as synopsis?
23:09 <@preaction_> could use that, yes
23:11 <@preaction_> rizen, would you be aversed to me working with the Post asset to try to make it useful outside the collab system IF I can do so without making it less efficient?
23:13 <@rizen> what do you mean "outside" the cs?
23:13 <@rizen> for CS subclassing purposes?
23:13 <@rizen> or soemthign else?
23:13 <@preaction_> well, that and for the image gallery
23:13 <@rizen> image gallery?
23:13 <@rizen> you mean the new one?
23:13 <@preaction_> part of the spec seems to be a way to add comments to individual images
23:13 <@preaction_> yes
23:14 <@rizen> It's a simple commenting system though, not a full collaboration system
23:14 <@rizen> no hierarchy or anything
23:14 <@preaction_> right
23:14 <@rizen> so why would you use the sledgehammer of post
23:14 <@rizen> when you could write something lighter?
23:15 <@rizen> in fact, the comments shouldn't even be assets
23:15 <@rizen> there should just be a commetns collateral table
23:15 <@rizen> attached to each photo
23:15 <@preaction_> but each photo is a WebGUI::Asset::File::Image
23:15 <@rizen> so?
23:16 <@preaction_> unless the gallery itself does the lookup
23:16 <@rizen> actually that's even better
23:16 <@rizen> since the gallery is doing the display in this case
23:16 <@rizen> not the photo asset
23:16 <@rizen> for the purposes of the photo gallery the images won't actually be displaying themselves
23:17 <@rizen> you won't be going to /image/url.jpg
23:17 <@rizen> will you?
23:17 <@rizen> or will you?
23:17 <@preaction_> there's one page where you'd want to: display the details of the image, including the EXIM info
23:17 <@preaction_> which, i believe, is where the comments on the photo are
23:18 <@rizen> hmmm
23:19 <@rizen> but how would you get back to the photo gallery then?
23:19 <@rizen> and you still need all of the photo gallery's navigation and stuff on that page
23:19 <@rizen> methinks that page will also be displayed by the photo gallery
23:21 <@rizen> or rather not by the photo gallery
23:21 <@rizen> but by the sub folder thing
23:21 <@preaction_> right
23:21 <@preaction_> Photo Gallery > Gallery > Image
23:22 <@rizen> methinks it should have a different name
23:22 <@rizen> but whatever
23:22 <@preaction_> eh, if you can think of one, i agree
23:23 <@rizen> Collection
23:23 <@rizen> Roll
23:23 <@rizen> Album
23:23 <@rizen> actually album is probably best
23:23 <@preaction_> album sounds best
23:24 <@rizen> actually i'm going to have to disagree with myself
23:24 <@rizen> we do need the image url to serve up that details page
23:24 <@rizen> otherwise search and tag clouds won't work properly
23:25 <@rizen> i'm starting to think we need a new asset type down there
23:25 <@rizen> maybe "Photo"
23:25 <@preaction_> the only way out of that, then, is subclassing the Image to make a Photo
23:25 <@rizen> yeah
23:25 <@rizen> and actually that makes sense, since EXIM data is only for photos
23:25 <@rizen> not for other types of images
23:26 <@preaction_> also the comment feature, and a more involved template
23:26 <@rizen> right, that way it can have all the stuff we need it to have
23:27 <@preaction_> without bugging up the normal Images with crap they don't need
23:27 <@rizen> and because it's s subclass of Image
23:27 <@rizen> it will still retain all it's functionality
23:28 <@rizen> like being able to do ^FileUrl();
23:28 <@rizen> and use image resizing
23:28 <@preaction_> sounds good. i think i got this thing figured out
23:47 <@khenn> ooh talk of the photo gallery
23:48 <@khenn> what did you think preaction ?
23:50 <@preaction_> i just sent the e-mail, it looks awesome
23:50 <@preaction_> very purdy
23:50 <@khenn> I get the feeling it's missing something
23:50 <@khenn> but I don't know what
23:50 <@khenn> did I cover all the bases?
23:50 <@khenn> it's so big
23:51 <@preaction_> it's not so big really, it has the potential to become big but i think i can keep it lean
23:51 <@preaction_> something i didn't get was you mentioned once about User friend network or something and never mentioned it again
23:52 <@preaction_> and if that were to be implemented, i'd think it'd need to be implemented through core, using some sort of that Dynamic Group control with a user profile field
23:53 <@rizen> friends has been implemented
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23:53 <@rizen> it's part of 7.5
23:53 <@preaction_> sweet
23:56 <@preaction_> otherwise the photogallery itself is just a way to display one or more albums, the album is just a way to display one or more photos, the photo asset will be the mildly complex part, but it's nothing i haven't done a few times already (which means i might be able to do it right the first time ;)
23:57 <@khenn> was the user folder concept explained well enough?
23:57 <@khenn> It's kind of implied
23:57 <@khenn> so all user photos go into one repository
23:57 <@khenn> and then are tied to "galleries" or "albums"
23:57 <@khenn> I don't care what we call it really
23:58 <@preaction_> oh, so the photogallery has one more function then
23:59 <@rizen> khenn the photos under each album will automatically be tied to the gallery by lineage
23:59 <@preaction_> but yes, looks like the page itself explains how it should work
23:59 <@khenn> I see
23:59 <@preaction_> the cross-publish thing: should it be a shortcut or a copy?
--- Day changed Fri Aug 31 2007
00:00 <@khenn> shortcut IMO
00:00 <@preaction_> so images can be posted to multiple galleries, and galleries need to know they might have shortcuts instead of actual photos
00:01 <@khenn> but I think rizen has a different view of the user folder than I do.  Honestly, the way he is thinking about it is better
00:01 <@khenn> but given that view
00:01 <@khenn> I'm not sure shortcuts work
00:01 <@khenn> if the owner deletes the photo, you get a nasty error where the image should be
00:01 <@preaction_> the photogallery will make the user folder. the user folder in the photogallery will take a descendant lineage of Photo assets where the ownerId = userId of the folder we want
00:02 <@khenn> right
00:02 <@preaction_> you can only post images to galleries you own, no?
00:02 <@preaction_> which includes cross-publish
00:02 <@khenn> my thinking was that galleries would be separate containers of photos
00:02 <@rizen> in the case of shortcuts referring to dead photos
00:03 <@rizen> the app will just have to take that into account
00:03 <@khenn> yeah it could do that
00:03 <@khenn> and put up a dummy image
00:03 <@khenn> <no longer available>
00:03 <@khenn> or something to that affect
00:03 <@khenn> but I think the way rizen sees it is:
00:03 <@khenn> User -|
00:03 <@preaction_> i thought the shortcut did that already automatically
00:03 <@khenn> - Galley
00:03 <@khenn> -|
00:03 <@khenn> Photo
00:03 <@khenn> Gallery that is =p
00:04 <@khenn> so the photos roll up to the user
00:04 <@khenn> but also are descendants of their own gallery
00:04 <@preaction_> so the PG wobject stores a bunch of User folders which have Albums which have Images
00:04 <@khenn> I think that's right
00:04 <@khenn> yes
00:04 <@khenn> that's a better way to handle it
00:05 <@khenn> the friends part of it comes in when you deal with private photos
00:05 <@khenn> so a photo marked private is only visible to your friends network
00:05 <@preaction_> which imo sounds bad. not every album should need a User folder. Albums have an owner, which may contain images not owned by the User (due to posting permissions on the album)
00:06 <@khenn> huh?
00:06 <@khenn> only the owner should be able to post to his/her album
00:07 <@preaction_> since albums have an owner, we don't need a folder to organize them, we can use a 'where owner=userId' clause in the lineage query
00:07 <@preaction_> so there will never be a "public" album that more than one person can post to? (at least, not under the current spec)
00:08 <@khenn> it's not necessary I agree, but it should be there.
00:08 <@khenn> the "public" album would be full of shortcuts
00:09 <@preaction_> not necessarily, it'd just be full of photos with different owners
00:09 <@preaction_> but that's not covered by the spec anyway
00:10 < xootom> sorry to butt in, is the If macro still available? it's in the wiki but doesn't seem to work, it's not in the Macro folder 
00:11 <@khenn> do we need the concept of "public" folders?
00:11 <@preaction_> xootom, it was taken out, i think there might be something in the contribs section about it
00:11 <@preaction_> khenn, not immediately, no. but by putting the extra container in there we may be overcomplicating the possibility of adding it in the future
00:12 <@khenn> i'm open to the suggestion.  We can talk more about it next week perhaps
00:12 < xootom> preaction_ - ok thanks. I'm trying to display a user profile field with User("year"); - where it's a number, but if it's 0, to show "open". The user profile editor is fine as there is a label to this effect for the drop down, but using the macro just pulls out the raw number. I was going to use If to replace '0' with 'open'.
00:12 <@khenn> I'm waiting on some other feedback and then I'll send the spec off to rizen
00:14 <@rizen> xootom the if macro was taken out in favor of pluggable templates...check out one of the more advanced template systems that come with webgui
00:14 <@preaction_> macros are processed after the template though, right?
00:16 <@rizen> true so he'll have to write his own custom macro that does the if logic
00:18 < xootom> hmm would be nice to easily display the value rather than key for a user profile field
00:19 < xootom> or is the key/value thing only used to display the drop down, and not accessible elsewhere
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00:19 <@rizen> no idea what you're talking about
00:19 < xootom> when you're editing a user profile field, and set "possible values", which is a list of keys mapped to values
00:20 < xootom> the keys are what's stored in the database, and accessible through the user macro, but the values are what the user sees in the user profile editor
00:21 < xootom> hmm when they view their profile though, they see the raw key, not the value... 
00:21 < xootom> maybe i've mis understood them
00:21 <@preaction_> when you use the User macro, you see the key defined in the possibleValues, not the value
00:22 < xootom> yeah that's what i found, same when looking at your profile. which makes it inconsistent with what you see when you edit your profile
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00:24 <@rizen> file it as a bug
00:24 < xootom> surely at least view user profile should show values, not keys
00:24 < xootom> ok
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18:00 < xootom> hi all
18:00 <@khenn> morning
18:00 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.5-beta / 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2 ] .:. Come To The WUC http://webgui.org/wuc
18:01 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.3-beta / 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2  / WRE 0.8 preview ] .:. Come To The WUC http://webgui.org/wuc
18:02 < xootom> i've got users adding basic pages of content, and they want to be able to add images to the content. what is the easiest way of them accomplishing this?
18:02 < xootom> they don't have write access to /media, so the webgui image inserter doesn't give them upload functionality, and even then I think it's overkill having them have to navigate the whole tree to find an image. 
18:03 < xootom> ideally it'd be as simple as clicking an insert image button, uploading the image, the image transparently being attached to the article, but still being able to be moved within the article, i.e. left aligned so text flows around
18:03 < xootom> at the moment if i attach multiple images, only one shows too
18:03 < dionak> is access to the media folder required for image uploads in the editor?
18:03 < xootom> seems to be, i get it as admin, but the user doesn't see it
18:04 < xootom> makes more sense in this case for the images to be stored in either the article itself or its page
18:04 < dionak> sounds a little disorganized for growth tho...might get messy
18:04 < xootom> they can upload the images using the file pile, then find them in the webgui image selector, but they have to edit the page too to hide the image asset, so it's several steps too many
18:05 < xootom> yeah but these are people with their own sets of pages, that want to just play around... like myspace :) ... i dont want to stop them being creative etc
18:05 < xootom> they just want to be able to add images into their pages of content
18:05 < dionak> gotcha...i don't have an answer tho. maybe rizen would have a suggestion.
18:06 <@rizen> i don't provide end user support on irc, sorry
18:06 < dionak> oh, sorry
18:06 < dionak> makes sense
18:06 -!- rizen changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.5-beta / 7.3.22-stable | WRE 0.7.2 / WRE 0.8 preview ] .:. Come To The WUC http://webgui.org/wuc
18:07 <@rizen> only developer support, and future discussions
18:07 < xootom> i dont think its a support issue, i can train them all to do a 5 step process for each image, it seems to me like the article attachments doesnt work properly
18:07 < dionak> btw, rizen...i added the WG conference to facebook as an event...just fyi
18:08 <@rizen> xootom, you always take that approach. if something doesn't work the way you want it to work you think it's a bug
18:08 <@rizen> thanks dionak
18:08 < xootom> yeah it probably comes across that way, im passing on the feeling i'm getting from non-technical users
18:09 < xootom> they expect it to work in a certain way etc
18:09 <@rizen> then submit an RFE
18:12 < xootom> i will if i'm not just doing the wrong thing or missed a setting...the thing that seems odd, is that when i attach an image (attachment) to an article, it prompts me to attach another one, etc, so i can attach say 3. I'd expect these to be available as downloads after the article, along with the link. But I only see one. If I reedit the article, I only see one. If i delete it, I see one of the others etc.
18:12 < xootom> is that a bug?
18:12 <@rizen> nope..it depends upon your template
18:13 < xootom> in the article editing interface it only shows one though
18:13 < xootom> the last one attached
18:15 <@rizen> i told you i don't provide end user support
18:16 <@rizen> contact plainblack support if you want help
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18:19 < xootom> ok so it's not a bug, no prob
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 01 00:00:58 2007