WebGUI irc logs from: 2008-10.log

zylopfa
--- Log opened Wed Oct 01 00:00:39 2008
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, you around?	01:02
+perlDreamer	yup	01:05
@Haarg	Can't coerce array into hash at upgrade_7.5.24-7.6.0.pl line 85.	01:05
@Haarg	thoughts?	01:05
+perlDreamer	$config->get('assets') is not an array anymore?	01:06
+perlDreamer	it's a set of hash refs	01:06
@Haarg	this is part of the product import fix	01:06
@Haarg	"Repairing broken Products that were imported"	01:06
+perlDreamer	line 85 is a blank line for me	01:07
+perlDreamer	is your config updated/committed?	01:07
+perlDreamer	s/config/update script/	01:07
@Haarg	yeah	01:07
+perlDreamer	I have that on line 91	01:08
@Haarg	next COLLATERAL unless exists $collateral->{sku}; is the line that's failing	01:08
+perlDreamer	COLLATERAL: foreach my $collateral (@{ $product->getAllCollateral('variantsJSON') }) {	01:09
+perlDreamer	the collateral has to be de-refed into an array so it can be iterated over	01:09
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+perlDreamer	I just committed a fix	01:11
+perlDreamer	and backported it to 7.5	01:11
@Haarg	thanks	01:14
@Haarg	i need to spend a weekend reading through all the shop code	01:14
+perlDreamer	You're welcome. I should have set up a test of the upgrade.	01:14
+perlDreamer	A suggestion. Spend a little extra time in the PayDriver. I couldn't figure out the multiple labels myself.	01:15
+perlDreamer	It would be nice to brainstorm with people.	01:15
@Haarg	looks like that upgrade bug helped my catch a bug in the forking upgrade script though	01:16
@Haarg	no fix yet, but for some upgrade errors it doesn't notice the failure	01:16
@Haarg	and i didn't see the error on the console either	01:17
@Haarg	which isn't good.	01:17
+perlDreamer	no	01:17
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7786 /WebGUI/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.6.0.pl:	01:19
CIA-39	WebGUI: Dereference the array ref of collateral into an array so foreach	01:19
CIA-39	WebGUI: can iterate over it.	01:19
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7787 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.5.25.pl: backporting upgrade script fix for array deref	01:19
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7788 /WebGUI/sbin/upgrade.pl: get upgrade.pl to fail properly if upgrade script dies	01:52
+perlDreamer	Haarg, did we ever finalize on a recursion depth for Macro.pm?	01:56
@Haarg	hmm	01:56
@Haarg	i didn't end up changing it	01:56
@Haarg	how deep did you start running into problems?	01:56
+perlDreamer	I don't remember. I'll repeat the experiment.	01:56
+perlDreamer	32 is too big	01:58
+perlDreamer	16 is okay	01:58
@Haarg	16 sounds fine with me	01:58
+perlDreamer	24 is too big	01:58
+perlDreamer	maybe we can squeeze in 20	01:59
@Haarg	if anyone ever got up to 10 they are probably doing something wrong	01:59
+perlDreamer	20 works	01:59
+perlDreamer	and if anyone uses anything as crappy as I do for production, they have earned their problems	02:00
+perlDreamer	20 sound good, just for margin?	02:00
@Haarg	i suppose	02:00
+perlDreamer	you like 16/10 better?	02:00
@Haarg	if 24 is giving you trouble, i'm something more like 16	02:01
+perlDreamer	16 it is	02:01
@Haarg	hmm	02:01
@Haarg	keep noticing problems i want to fix before releasing	02:02
+perlDreamer	I have a little time, if you like :)	02:02
+perlDreamer	there's the intermittent Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock test failures, too	02:03
+perlDreamer	I've never been able to duplicate those	02:03
+perlDreamer	They're somehow related to the Inbox	02:03
@Haarg	heh, i was wondering why there were so many entries missing from the changelog	02:06
@Haarg	looks like i only did half of what i needed to	02:06
+perlDreamer	Shelf test is badly broken	02:14
+perlDreamer	Asset.pm seems broken, too	02:16
@Haarg	how so?	02:16
+perlDreamer	Nothing can call getUrl	02:17
@Haarg	o_O	02:17
@Haarg	there was a pod bug causing that	02:17
@Haarg	that i fixed	02:17
+perlDreamer	I'm up to date	02:17
+perlDreamer	and I saw that commit	02:17
+perlDreamer	syntax checks okay	02:18
+perlDreamer	but perl t/Asset/Asset.t dies	02:19
+perlDreamer	Can't locate object method "getUrl" via package "WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Folder" at t/Asset/Asset.t line 395.	02:19
@Haarg	7.6?	02:19
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+perlDreamer	7.5	02:20
@Haarg	maybe that fix needs a backport then	02:20
+perlDreamer	I'll track it down	02:21
+perlDreamer	that double =cut doesn't exist in 7.5	02:22
+perlDreamer	I'll run the syntax check test to see if it helps	02:23
+perlDreamer	found it	02:26
+perlDreamer	I was split between two branches	02:26
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7789 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/templateChecker.t: Add test to make sure that default templates do not contain bad gateway macros.	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7790 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backporting product import csv file format fix	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7791 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Macro.pm: reset recursion depth on macros to 16	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7792 /WebGUI/docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt: merge 7.5.22-7.5.24 changelog entries	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7793 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/ (2 files in 2 dirs): continue backporting Shelf tests for product import	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: jt * r7794 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.0: Release 7.6.0	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: jt * r7795 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.0-beta: Release 7.6.0-beta	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7796 /releases/WebGUI_7.6.0: erroneous tag	02:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7797 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.6.1 dev	02:30
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CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7798 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm: backport POD fix for getUrl	03:02
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SDuensin	Oooo! Just got the 7.6.0 beta mail. New toys!	03:17
@rizen	mesa likey new toys	03:19
elnino	what's the different between package and prototype, other than you can import and export packages. as far as to the content manager, packages are under packages and prototypes are under the "new contnet" menu. Other than that, are there any other differences I'm missing?	03:22
@preaction	packages are a lineage, they can contain more than one asset	03:25
@preaction	prototypes are just one asset	03:25
@rizen	and packages are exact copies as you deploy them	03:26
@rizen	a prototype sets up "defaults" but lets you change them as you create the prototype	03:26
@rizen	as you create the asset from the prototype i mean	03:26
@preaction	so, say you need to use a different default Article template. you can set up a prototype and (if you want) remove the original from the New Content menu	03:26
patspam	packages are the best thing since sliced bread	03:32
patspam	they make syncing changes between dev and production servers a breeze	03:33
elnino	oh.. I use packages as a template. Content managers add a pagelayout that has been a defined as a package, and then they make their modifications. So we have "about 200" pages built from a package. But it sounds like that isn't what it was meant for.	03:36
elnino	I'll write a wiki. =)	03:37
@preaction	what it was meant for is of no concern.	03:41
@preaction	the best things in webgui are used for things they weren't meant for	03:41
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elnino	new wiki: http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/packages-vs-prototypes - Thanks guys!	04:01
elnino	I also did this too from yesterdays conversation: http://www.plainblack.com/community-wiki/subscription-overview	04:01
elnino	preaction, rizen feel free to modify if I misrepresented anything you guys said on these topics.	04:04
elnino	and patspam =)	04:07
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patspam	elnino: I was disappointed you didn't put the bit in about sliced bread	05:00
@rizen	me too	05:01
patspam	whose idea was packages? I've often thought i want to buy them a beer at the next WUC	05:06
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@rizen	me	05:30
@rizen	actually, i take that back...it was a guy i used to work with back when i started webgui named Michael Blakeslee	05:31
@rizen	not the idea to be able to copy packages between sites though	05:31
@rizen	that was me	05:31
@rizen	his idea was being able to have a package on a site to be able to redeploy it over and over again	05:31
@rizen	and i felt we needed a way to be able to sync content between sites	05:32
@rizen	so packages just seemed to be the ideal place to stick that feature in	05:32
@rizen	rather than creating yet another switch	05:32
@rizen	these days i'm not sure which side of packages are used more often	05:33
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patspam	i think i'll owe you a whole slab of beer by the the next wuc in that case :)	06:06
@rizen	i don't think so	06:07
@rizen	i think by next wuc i'll owe you a whole slab of beer	06:07
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patspam	hah we can get drunk together then. but seriously, packages save me SO much time	06:07
@rizen	if you keep contributing and actually get the enhancements to thingy and other things done	06:07
@rizen	add the crypto	06:07
@rizen	add the privileges thing	06:08
@rizen	you'll be contributor of the year	06:08
patspam	hah if i actually finish anything =p	06:08
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patspam	does the crypto thing interest you though?	06:08
@rizen	it has promise	06:08
@rizen	and i'm certain that some of our government clients would be interested	06:08
@rizen	we've also recently started doing some low level medical stuff	06:09
@rizen	nothing that includes personal info	06:09
@rizen	but eventually, if we go further then we could use it there as well	06:09
patspam	ah great. I'll definitely go ahead with building a prototype system then	06:09
@rizen	i've been avoiding posting to your thread cuz i wanted to see what other people said first	06:09
patspam	yeah that's ok, the most important thing to know is that you don't think it's a complete waste of time	06:10
@rizen	btw...would you be interested in starting some sort of WebGUI Oz group like the Dutch guys did for holland?	06:10
patspam	absolutely	06:10
patspam	if there are enough numbers..?	06:10
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@rizen	encryption isn't a waste of time...i'm just not a fan of having the crypto in the hands of humans	06:11
@rizen	humans are falable	06:11
patspam	yeah humans suck	06:11
patspam	they mess everything up for the rest of us	06:12
@rizen	there are about six WebGUI related companies in Oz that i'm aware of	06:12
patspam	oh wow, cool i didn't realise there were that many	06:12
@rizen	but i havent' been in contact with any of them for a while	06:12
@rizen	i'll see what i can do to dig them out and get you guys together	06:12
patspam	I'd be more than happy to coordinate stuff	06:12
@rizen	there's one in sydney that has something to do with building legal sites	06:13
@rizen	if you turn on passive profiling you'll see a warning message pop up	06:13
@rizen	that's because of those guys	06:13
patspam	heh yeah i saw that at the WUC!	06:13
@rizen	apparently passive profiling is illegal in oz	06:13
patspam	I was sceptical about that, but i guess if they're into the legal stuff then they'd know better than me	06:14
patspam	i thought you just had to be up front about how much info you're collecting	06:14
@rizen	well maybe that's it	06:14
@rizen	but the warning is just about making sure you know your local laws	06:15
@rizen	before using it	06:15
@rizen	anyway, they are the ones that told ust o put it in there	06:15
@rizen	Radix-wrk is from Perth	06:16
@rizen	so he's another aussie	06:16
patspam	yeah he's the only one i know about	06:16
@rizen	he came to the wuc a couple years back	06:16
@rizen	the problem is that oz is so big (kind of like the states) that it may not be possible for you to put a group together	06:16
@rizen	at least not a physical group like they do in the netherlands	06:17
patspam	yeah the tyranny of distance..	06:17
@rizen	SGE is also from there	06:18
@rizen	http://www.sge.com/	06:18
patspam	it's not so bad in the states because your population is so much greater	06:18
@rizen	i can't think of anybody's name from there that i know off the top of my head	06:18
@rizen	but i've talked to them a couple times	06:18
patspam	heh my old company built the sge website	06:18
@rizen	see you guys are already connected!	06:19
patspam	hah yeah, except some links are better left broken!	06:19
@rizen	you can't lead a group and think that way	06:19
patspam	heh yeah, I'm just joking	06:19
@rizen	it's about finding commonalities and focusing on those	06:19
@rizen	otherwise you end up like our president	06:20
patspam	really rich and in charge of the most powerful country in the world?	06:20
@rizen	the law group is: http://www.lawsocietywa.asn.au/	06:20
@rizen	no: a total jackass that everybody hates, and that can't put together coherent sentences to save his life	06:21
@rizen	email for the guy that put that site together is: terminus@terminus.net.au	06:22
patspam	so the dutch group, do they have any overriding goals? or is it just to help people connect?	06:22
@rizen	the main focus is to promote webgui as a business platform in holland	06:23
@rizen	but it's also to bring together a group of webgui professionals to share ideas, and resources	06:23
@rizen	because we're all a bunch of small companies (in the webgui community) so we need to get help from each other from time to time	06:24
patspam	yeah for sure	06:24
@rizen	i'll try to get you the contact information for some other australian companies using webgui...just can't remember them off the top of my head right now	06:25
@rizen	but you have four so far	06:25
@rizen	so you could get started	06:25
@rizen	four is more than the dutch team started with	06:26
@rizen	originally there were only two dutch companies involved in wossa	06:26
@rizen	now i think there are 7	06:26
@rizen	granted that 4 of them are either procolix or offshoots from procolix	06:26
patspam	yeah i think it's a great idea, I'll give it a shot	06:27
@rizen	the terminus guy is in perth with radix	06:29
@rizen	where are you again?	06:29
patspam	Melbourne	06:31
@rizen	yikes	06:32
@rizen	holy other side of the country batman	06:32
patspam	heh yeah, well, everything is far away from Perth	06:32
diakopter	hee	06:33
patspam	most geographically isolated city in the world i think?	06:33
@rizen	please...	06:33
@rizen	Darwin is more isolated	06:33
patspam	nah you've got Alice Springs etc.. nearby	06:34
@rizen	I've always wanted to go to Darwin...mainly cuz it's name is Darwin	06:34
patspam	it's awesome	06:35
patspam	especially if you like tropical weather	06:35
@rizen	one of these days i've got to get back to australia	06:35
@rizen	only been there once, and it was great	06:35
patspam	WUC next year man :)	06:35
@rizen	yeah, if we want only 2 of us to show up. =)	06:36
@rizen	as much as i like to think of webgui as a worldwide phenomena, it's mainly a U.S. thing. =)	06:36
@rizen	i take it back, i don't want to go back to australia	06:38
@rizen	i've been to sydney and katoomba	06:38
@rizen	the rest of the country can't be that much different. =)	06:39
@rizen	that's a little like saying you've been to Madison and Chicago, so there's nothing to see in New York or San Franciso	06:40
@rizen	co	06:40
patspam	heh.. it's definitely not as diverse here as the states or europe though	06:40
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@rizen	i think that you guys don't use very much spice in your cooking	06:42
@rizen	the only places i liked to eat while i was there were asian	06:42
@rizen	maybe i just kept going to the wrong places	06:43
+Radix-wrk	unfortunately, we have far too many brits here who don't like spices.. so the majority eat plain food. Personally I love spices in my food.. hence why I'm engaged to a Chinese/Malaysian woman ;)	06:56
@rizen	ah that's what it is, the british influence	06:57
+Radix-wrk	meat and potatoes	06:57
+Radix-wrk	and lots of salt	06:58
@rizen	even meat and potatoes can have spices	06:58
@preaction	chives, oregano, laury's	06:58
+Radix-wrk	yeah, but it's amazing how many of them don't use em	06:58
+Radix-wrk	speaking of which.. I have some of my special homemade pizza in the fridge and it's lunchtime :)	07:05
@preaction	nice	07:05
+Radix-wrk	best pizza base ever = 4 cups of flour, pinch of salt, lots of mixed herbs, cajun spices and one bottle of beer - mix it all up and makes 3 pizza bases	07:06
+Radix-wrk	oh.. by one bottle I mean 375ml - your typical can here	07:07
@preaction	hand-tossed?	07:08
@preaction	or just stretch on a baking sheet?	07:08
+Radix-wrk	mix and knead.. but shouldn't need much needing	07:13
+Radix-wrk	then divide into three and roll it out as flat as you can on a pizza tray	07:13
@rizen	recipe for webgui pizza?	07:13
@rizen	perhaps it should be in the wiki +0	07:13
+Radix-wrk	I made a couple of bacon and potato pizza's, and a prawn and coriander pizza last night.. delicious	07:13
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Mech4221	Umm - are the webgui books real books ? or e-books ? and if real paper - anyone know how long shipping takes ?	08:16
@rizen	real books	08:18
@rizen	shipping usually takes about a week because they are print on demand	08:18
@rizen	however, you can also email info@plainblack.com to find out what books we have in stock (cuz we keep some)	08:19
@rizen	and those can be expressed to you	08:19
Mech4221	rizen: Umm - probably the developers guide and the template guide ...	08:21
Mech4221	rizen: maybe the others if we decide to implement with webgui	08:22
@rizen	i don't know what we have in stock	08:22
@rizen	that's why i'm saying email info	08:22
Mech4221	rizen: LOL - sorry	08:22
Mech4221	rizen; are the on-line docs enough to get a 'feel' for developing with webgui ?	08:22
@rizen	we keep a very limited number of books on hand	08:22
@rizen	online docs?	08:22
@rizen	you mean the wiki?	08:23
@rizen	and the pod?	08:23
Mech4221	yeah - I thought I saw some 'tutorial' type info on the website...	08:23
Mech4221	though I've looked at so many, I might be confusing it with something else	08:23
@rizen	it really depends upon how motivated you are and if you need a complete reference	08:23
@rizen	the books that we write are certainly not complete, but they are the closest thing to complete there is	08:23
@rizen	the free docs are very good, but they are mostly community maintained, so not nearly as complete as our books	08:24
Mech4221	I just need to do a sort of 'bake off' - maybe develop a 'content type' - recreate our template/theme, etc.	08:24
@rizen	total free documentation is somewhere around 400 pages	08:24
Mech4221	ahh - that should be plenty then :-)	08:25
@rizen	total books (paid docs) is around 1300 pages	08:25
@rizen	400 pages may sound like a lot, but keep in mind that WebGUI is an absolutely gigantic system	08:25
Mech4221	rizen: yeah - I'm hoping I won't have to cover all 1500 to start out with :-)	08:26
Mech4221	rizen: yeah - I was rather surprised to see SVN installed as part of wre - is that for versioning content or something ?	08:26
@rizen	that's there fore WDK	08:27
@rizen	WDK is the WebGUI Development Kit	08:27
@rizen	which is a special version of the WRE	08:27
@rizen	and it's currently just an alpha features that we're testing out	08:27
Mech4221	ahh yes, I did install that as well	08:27
@rizen	webgui has it's own versioning system and doesn't need subversion	08:27
@rizen	but our goal was to give webgui developers the ability to set up their own subversion repositories with little to no trouble	08:28
Mech4221	ahh - nice :-)	08:28
@rizen	however, subversion will likely be removed from the wdk in the future, because we've gotten feedback that most developers don't care about that...they already have their own repos set up	08:28
Mech4221	yeah - personally, I prefer mercurial ...	08:29
Mech4221	and that neon lib causes build issues on 64 bit platforms	08:29
@rizen	yeah and a lot of people like git these days	08:29
@rizen	so subversion will probably go away...and like you say, neon and swig and a bunch of that other stuff you need for subversion is all a pain to get built	08:30
@rizen	even on 32 bit systems	08:30
Mech4221	yeah - there's a lot of activity in source control lately - git, darcs, monotone, bazaar... seems like they've all gotten pretty good lately.	08:31
@rizen	and a lot of them are starting to offer hosted solutions	08:31
@rizen	which makes it even easier to use them	08:31
@rizen	and provides even less utility for us to include it in the wdk	08:31
Mech4221	rizen: can you think of any special features/weak area's I should look at during the eval ?	08:32
Mech4221	rizen: anything your especially proud of or find especially useful ?	08:32
@rizen	it would help to know what you plan on using webgui for	08:34
@rizen	as i said, it's a big system	08:34
@rizen	in general, i'd say that you need to understand that WebGUI doesn't try to be the "best" in any one subject area. instead, it tries to give you the 70%-80% of each subject area that you are likely to use	08:35
Mech4221	umm - mostly blogging, some light e-commerce (classifieds/job listings), and a subscription area for 'members'...	08:35
@rizen	there are a lot of solutions out there that try to give you every feature you could possibly need in a particular vertical (like wikis, or blogs, or photo galleries, or forums, or whatever)	08:36
@rizen	webgui instead tries to give you a little of everything, because most people need a little of everything	08:36
@rizen	well for blogging you want to take a look at the Collaboration System. It may be a bit confusing at first, but it is hella powerful.	08:37
@rizen	especially it's ability to let you email in blog posts	08:37
Mech4221	ohh - I hadn't seen that yet...	08:37
@rizen	there's a subscription asset that will let you sell access to restricted areas of the site	08:38
@rizen	so that's going to cover you there	08:38
Mech4221	very nice :-)	08:38
@rizen	we don't really have a classifieds or job listings system...but the collaboration system has templates for both of those so you can simulate them	08:38
Mech4221	I was also pretty pleased with the performance... Even 'outta the box' - it out performs Plone on the same configuration	08:39
@rizen	however, you won't be able to sell posting to them	08:39
@rizen	at least individual posts	08:39
@rizen	instead you set up a subscription	08:39
@rizen	and once somebody has the subscription, they can post all they want during their subscription period	08:39
@rizen	webgui runs pretty damn fast with the default configuration...but there are lots of tuning tricks you can do to make it even faster	08:40
@rizen	you just have to learn your usage patterns and then you can really make it sing	08:41
@rizen	to go back to your question about what i'm proud of...that changes with each new release	08:42
@rizen	right now i'm thinking about 7.6 stuff cuz that's what we're working on	08:42
@rizen	but you're probably using 7.4 or 7.5	08:42
@rizen	in 7.5 i really like our new photo gallery asset	08:42
@rizen	and we just rewrote the commerce underpinnings	08:43
@rizen	so i'm happy about that	08:43
@rizen	but the commerce stuff will get even better over time now that we have a solid foundation to build from	08:43
Mech4221	wow - sounds like a lot of cool stuff...	08:44
Mech4221	I'd better get to it, and start poking around :-)	08:44
@rizen	i'm heading to bed. good luck in your eval.	08:45
Mech4221	thanks again for all the info. :-)	08:45
Mech4221	g'nite :-)	08:45
@rizen	oh, and feel free to send an email to info@plainblack.com to set up a webinar if want to have someone do a live demo for you	08:45
Mech4221	oh great! Didn't know you offered those....	08:46
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SDuensin	Howdy.	16:07
BartJol	goodday	16:11
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carogra1	morning/afternoon	16:35
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carogra1	with 7.5.22 has the menu title stopped automatically inheriting the value of the title in assets?	16:36
carogra1	I used to be able to enter the title of an asset skip menu title and go straight to URL, I could even simply delete the value in a menu title field and save, the title would automatically pop into menu title box	16:37
carogra1	no longer seems to be the case?	16:37
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@rizen	carogra1: try it on demo.plainblack.com, if it's not doing that then it's a bg	16:56
@rizen	bug	16:56
@rizen	however, if it's working on demo, then it must be a configuration issue on your site, and you can put in a support request	16:56
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estiven	Hello	17:16
estiven	I need to buy hardware for a new proyect	17:16
estiven	and i need to know how many users i can have with that configuration..	17:17
estiven	the idea is use WebGui...	17:17
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@perlmonkey2	estiven: What type of site is it? Will the users be using the site 8 hard hours a day or casually over 24?	17:23
@perlmonkey2	Also, how much content will be on the site? Will it be 50GB of hosted content, or 50MB of text and forums?	17:25
estiven	the site is allways 24 hours online...	17:25
estiven	the site is for a new community....	17:25
estiven	the idea use a NAS for the storage...	17:26
estiven	my problen is't the storage....	17:26
estiven	my problen is with the performance..	17:27
estiven	i don'n know whit who hardware i can have who many users...	17:28
@preaction	a decent dual-core processor and 4 gigs of ram should serve you until you start breaking the 10,000 users mark	17:28
estiven	mm, and who many current conected users?	17:30
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@perlmonkey2	estiven: Think of pages served per second.	17:44
@perlmonkey2	How pages do you need to serve per second?	17:44
@perlmonkey2	1? 10? 100?	17:44
@perlmonkey2	The last test I did I could serve 2 pages of dynamic content per second on an old P4 with 512 MB of ram with WG. Cached/static content would be served much faster. What I'm saying is on a dedicated machine, you would need a rather large body of users before hardware becomes an issue. Bandwidth will be a much larger issue and if you are paying for the required bandwidth, hardware costs will be small in comparison.	17:47
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@preaction	hardware is cheap these days, i'd buy the fastest one you can afford and benchmark it	17:51
@preaction	until you actually test, you'll never know how many users you can have really	17:51
@perlmonkey2	I just replaced m y study light with a "ecosmart" CFI which uses 14W and is a 60W equiv, and only costs $1.10 per bulb. They were so cheap I thought they would suck, but are the best CFI's I've ever seen (nice warm glow but not missing the blue light that's lack would put you to sleep), and by far the cheapest. And the 75W it replaced means my lappy is now running for free :D	17:52
@preaction	nice	17:53
topsub	lol	17:54
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estiven	Ok, thanks	18:02
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bartjol	hee, the search functiopn doesn't give me anything on webgui.org	18:28
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bartjol	content area is just white	18:29
bartjol	lets report a bug	18:29
bartjol	and reported..	18:34
bartjol	perlDreamer: I got a new typo for you	18:49
bartjol	more will follow prolly	18:49
+perlDreamer	bring it on bartjol	18:50
bartjol	it's in the bug page	18:52
bartjol	collecting karma...	18:52
bartjol	that's a new task that Koen assigned to me	18:53
bartjol	:)	18:53
+perlDreamer	and what does Koen want with your new karma?	18:53
bartjol	dunno exactly	18:57
bartjol	new world order	18:57
bartjol	I think he wants me to have status, other than gained by large amounts of beer	18:58
+perlDreamer	How is Mrs. Koen doing?	18:58
+perlDreamer	Wir sind die Frau Koen?	18:58
+perlDreamer	Como esta' la Senora Koen?	18:58
+perlDreamer	I think that German one is wrong	18:59
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7799 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_EventManagementSystem.pm: fix i18n typo	19:00
CIA-39	WebGUI: translation * r7800 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (9 files): Update from translation server	19:00
bartjol	oh theu're ok	19:06
bartjol	the German means We are misses Koen	19:07
+perlDreamer	that would be a problem	19:07
+perlDreamer	a BIG problem	19:07
@perlmonkey2	perlDreamer is Mrs. Koen? That is strange.	19:07
bartjol	Koen wasn't feeling particularly well today	19:07
bartjol	like my yping	19:07
bartjol	typing	19:08
bartjol	as far as I know, Tessa's finre	19:08
bartjol	but it's getting beer time	19:09
+perlDreamer	I don't see anymore i18n typos	19:11
bartjol	not yet	19:13
bartjol	they will come, believe me	19:13
topsub	Has anyone had to maintain a product site along with a staging server, while the production server is being update with content, making code changes to the staging server and push your changings to production and not overwrite anything?	19:13
topsub	First thought was db replication, but seems that coudl lead to trouble	19:13
topsub	any change made to production pushed into staging database	19:14
bartjol	well bye	19:16
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CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7801 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): backport buying EMSBadge when none are available fix from HEAD	19:31
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@preaction	topsub, we do this a lot. we don't make changes to the dev database, and we sync dev with production regularly	19:41
@preaction	we make scripts to do the migrations / db changes that are necessary, testing them on the dev/staging	19:42
topsub	How do you keep track of the changes you do to stagings so you know what to push to production?	19:43
topsub	version tag?	19:43
topsub	We have a site going live that will get a ton of updates to production, but we need to keep doing dev work on staging. We just trying to figure out the best way to handle pushing the changes without overwriting data thats new from production	19:46
@preaction	packages?	19:47
topsub	Does your scripts make use of the version tags?	19:49
topsub	Any work that can be done under version tags go under a certain version tag then push everything from that version tag to production	19:49
@preaction	no, we just use packages usually	19:52
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topsub	preaction, just got back.. ah so you create everything under a folder or something and then package it up and reimport it on production	21:40
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+perlDreamer	preaction: http://www.linux.com/feature/148751	22:05
+perlDreamer	OpenGoo	22:05
@preaction	sounds like a good candidate for a web services company	22:07
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topsub	Is there a bug with the DateTime form control? I have added few extra fields to the EventManagementSystem.pm definition and i change the date but it stays "1969-12-31 18:00:00"	22:35
@preaction	are you upgraded to the latest version? yes, i think there are some issues with that form control	22:37
@preaction	did you set a default value?	22:37
topsub	nope, no default value in there	22:37
topsub	we are on version 7.5.24-stable	22:38
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topsub	it does say "Latest version available:7.6.0"	22:38
wgGuest34	hey guys, is anyone there?	22:39
@preaction	yeah, ignore that for now	22:39
topsub	So there is an issue with the form control?	22:39
@preaction	topsub, set a default value of "2008-01-01 00:00:00" or something, see if that helps	22:39
wgGuest34	can anyone help me with some questions i have about webgui and yui	22:39
@preaction	i think it's an issue with the form control, yes	22:39
@preaction	wgGuest34, don't ask to ask, just ask	22:39
topsub	Would that explain tho when i try to change the value it stay that 1969 one tho?	22:40
@preaction	topsub, yes. it's got an epoch time, but it's treating it as a mysql time	22:40
wgGuest34	i work for a non-profit organization that makes websites for other non-profits.. we use webgui so that the end user can make changes to their sites without us	22:40
@preaction	and that would be considered a bug imho	22:40
topsub	k, thanks.. will try that	22:40
wgGuest34	the sys admin here wants us to find a way to integrate more javascript into the sites to make the look nicer	22:41
wgGuest34	so I'm kind of stuck, I don't know how to go about this, I want to use YUI because they have so many little features	22:41
wgGuest34	but am not sure how to integrate the two..	22:41
@preaction	yui is already included with webgui	22:42
wgGuest34	I have been reading in the forums but am kind of lost.. any ideas?	22:42
wgGuest34	Yes, I saw that.. but how can I use all the features for example drag and drop..	22:42
@preaction	it's in the extras folder. you can get at them using the ^Extras(); macro	22:42
wgGuest34	do you know of a tutorial somewhere that could help me through that.. I am really new to webgui	22:42
wgGuest34	learning the basics still.. and can't find much help..	22:43
@preaction	i did a presentation at the '07 WUC about YUI and WebGUI, but that's not free (from what I know)	22:43
topsub	The YUI dosc should help you with learning how to use YUI	22:44
@preaction	you might look into some of the WebGUI design documents, they go through how to edit templates and such	22:44
@preaction	that's how you'd have to add the javascript	22:44
wgGuest34	I have played around with YUI and have been able to use it without webgui.. I just can't figure out how to make things work with webgui	22:44
topsub	Are you not able to figure out how to include that javascript files into the webgui templates?	22:45
wgGuest34	yes	22:45
topsub	so you need tolearn how to edit the style templates for example and include the YUI scripts into it so its site wide	22:45
wgGuest34	I was just wondering if any of you knew where I could find a tutorial or example on how to do such tasks	22:45
wgGuest34	Okay.. I will work on that, I have been playing with the templates	22:46
@preaction	wgGuest34, look in the Gallery templates or the Thingy templates, YUI is used in there quite a bit	22:46
wgGuest34	I am used to make websites by hand coding and all the splitting up of the templates has been tripping me out	22:46
@preaction	the Gallery slideshow and thumbnails page	22:46
topsub	the event management system does ajax request with YUI you could look at its templates for examples	22:47
topsub	Parses JSON objects and such	22:47
@preaction	otherwise, honestly, you could be using Yahoo's servers to get the YUI files	22:47
@preaction	might be easier	22:47
@preaction	i've heard that soon, by default, WebGUI will be doing just that	22:47
topsub	what parsing JSON objects?	22:48
@preaction	no, getting the YUI files from http://yahooapis.com	22:49
wgGuest34	okay guys, thanks for the help!	22:49
topsub	Ah instead of putting them in the core?	22:49
wgGuest34	I'm going to look into those things and see if I can get something going!	22:49
CIA-39	WebGUI: chrisn * r7802 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs):	22:49
CIA-39	WebGUI: changed: the list of extensions for the export system to pass through	22:49
CIA-39	WebGUI: unmodified has been moved to the configuration file under the	22:49
CIA-39	WebGUI: "exportBianryExtensions" field.	22:49
topsub	When i added the default value for the DateTime form control i get an error now http://pastebin.com/m58be102d	22:51
topsub	Guess i need post bug report about it..	22:51
wgGuest34	is event management a part of the calendar function?	22:55
@Haarg	no	22:55
@Haarg	event management has its own asset for management and ties in the the shop	22:56
wgGuest34	k, thanks, im going to ask someone in the office to help me find that	22:57
topsub	Okay so i switched it to just Date and i am seeing the same results.	23:02
topsub	Is Date form control bugged to?	23:02
@preaction	most likely yes, they all use the same basic code (copypasta)	23:02
dionak	mmm, pasta	23:13
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, can I backport your SIG WARN fixes to 7.5?	23:46
@Haarg	if you want to	23:46
+perlDreamer	Now that there are test reports per night, the less line noise the better	23:46
@Haarg	yeah	23:46
+perlDreamer	Did I break the "no commit" rule while you were releasing 7.6 last night?	23:47
@preaction	is the SIG warn fix in sbin/testCodebase.pl or in the test file itself?	23:47
@Haarg	nah, i was fixing stuff, and those were good things to get in as well	23:47
+perlDreamer	preaction, test file itself	23:47
@Haarg	in the test itself	23:47
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@Haarg	it's only for some small cases where the warnings are expected	23:48
@Haarg	my UNIVERSAL::isa just has "package UNIVERSAL::isa; 1;" now	23:48
@Haarg	so i don't have to deal with whatever bug is causing all those false positives	23:49
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+perlDreamer	has anyone tried to generate a dependency tree for WebGUI CPAN modules?	23:58
+perlDreamer	To see just how many we use?	23:58
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@Haarg	no, but i have been thinking about doing something like that	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Oct 02 2008
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7803 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/ (Group.t SQL.t Macro/SQL.t): backport the fix for quieting test output due to warns	00:00
+perlDreamer	I'd like to use Clone for some tests	00:05
+perlDreamer	but I don't want to inject another test dependency	00:05
+perlDreamer	especially because I'm pretty sure we already require it	00:06
+perlDreamer	through some other modules	00:06
@Haarg	well, you can check the wre	00:06
@Haarg	if it's in there you're probably fine	00:06
+perlDreamer	where is the src kept in SVN?	00:06
@Haarg	https://svn.webgui.org/plainblack/wrebuild/build.sh	00:07
@Haarg	Clone-0.20	00:08
+perlDreamer	all right!	00:09
@Haarg	what is the difference between Clone::clone and Storable::dclone?	00:11
+perlDreamer	It's much faster	00:11
+perlDreamer	http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/Clone	00:12
+perlDreamer	7.5's template.t will pass tomorrow	00:45
* perlDreamer looks at assetExportHtml with trepidation		00:45
@Haarg	that one shouldn't be too big of a deal	00:46
+perlDreamer	do you think we could convince rizen to implement a pre-commit hook for syntax checks of perl modules?	00:47
@Haarg	possibly	00:47
@Haarg	ideally they would be clean of compile warnings as well	00:48
+perlDreamer	ha	00:48
@Haarg	not warnings in general	00:48
+perlDreamer	You've run perl -wc on most of the code. It's not compile warn clean	00:49
@Haarg	yeah	00:49
@Haarg	the main thing that comes up are circular requirements	00:49
+perlDreamer	it could be made compile warn clean, but it would take some work	00:49
@Haarg	anything else is pretty simple to fix	00:49
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CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7804 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/packages-7.5.25/ (8 files): backport templates with bad gateway macros	01:00
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, getting it to be warning clear is actually pretty easy. the only warnings i'm seeing are some my variable masking issues.	01:26
@Haarg	the test should probably be changed a bit. it's probably a bit slower right now than it needs to be.	01:28
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@Haarg	oh wow	01:32
@Haarg	i love Matrix.pm line 791	01:32
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I guess that's why Matrix2 was started :)	01:42
+perlDreamer	I just hope it turns out better than UserList	01:43
+perlDreamer	Haarg, which test are you talking about, being slow?	01:43
@Haarg	compile test	01:43
@Haarg	i just fixed all the real compile warnings	01:44
+perlDreamer	using Module::Find instead of File::Find?	01:44
@Haarg	no, although that may be worth doing	01:44
@Haarg	module find would search outside the WebGUI/lib folder though	01:45
@Haarg	so maybe not	01:45
@Haarg	if you just add -w to the compile check, you get lots of redefinition warnings	01:45
@Haarg	that's because for example Post does use ::Thread	01:46
@Haarg	and Thread does use ::Post	01:46
+perlDreamer	circular dependencies	01:46
@Haarg	but when it gets to that, Post isn't in %INC yet	01:46
@Haarg	if instead you do: perl -we'require "WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm";'	01:47
@Haarg	it is basically the same test	01:47
@Haarg	but it loads post into %INC	01:47
@Haarg	that's actually a run test instead of a compile test, but for modules that is essentially the same thing	01:47
@Haarg	the other option is having the test just require them directly	01:48
@Haarg	that would speed it up a ton	01:48
+perlDreamer	and do the require inside of an eval so that it doesn't puke	01:48
@Haarg	but there is some value in testing them in isolation	01:48
@Haarg	if they used a external module without loading it first for example	01:49
@Haarg	perl -w -mWebGUI::Asset::Post -e';' might be another way to go if we wanted to work with class names instead of file names	01:50
+perlDreamer	-e 1	01:51
@Haarg	yeah, that's probably better	01:51
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7805 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (6 files in 4 dirs): clear out some compile warnings	02:10
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CIA-39	WebGUI: translation * r7806 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Workflow_Activity_NotifyAboutLowStock.pm Shop.pm): Update from translation server	04:58
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elnino	is there a way to subscribe other people to your thread on a cs system?	08:21
elnino	I'm thinking not. I'll write an RFE. good night everyone!	08:25
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CIA-39	WebGUI: translation * r7807 /translations/German/German/ (Asset_WikiPage.pm Workflow_Activity_NotifyAboutLowStock.pm): Update from translation server	10:54
patspam	Haarg: (if you're awake) how's that git repo coming along?	11:14
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CIA-39	WebGUI: translation * r7808 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (8 files): Update from translation server	12:27
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CIA-39	WebGUI: frank * r7809 /experimental/HelpDesk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Migration to plainblack.com working - needs a bit more testing as I don't think uploads came over properly	16:50
CIA-39	WebGUI: frank * r7810 /experimental/HelpDesk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): forgot to commit migration script and some new files	16:50
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@rizen	Top of the morning to you, largest group i've ever seen on IRC this early in the morning.	17:15
+MrHairgrease	well, that depends on where you are of course...	17:16
@rizen	you are forgetting	17:16
@rizen	everything is relative to me	17:16
@rizen	we no longer measure time by GMT or UTC	17:17
@rizen	it's now just JT	17:17
+MrHairgrease	i see	17:17
SDuensin	Greetings.	17:17
@rizen	which makes time calculations even more interesting, since i can move between time zones	17:17
+MrHairgrease	well, if you just eliminate the whole tz crap, I'll thank you for it	17:18
+MrHairgrease	and while you're at it, please fmake sure that utf-8 is the only char set	17:19
+MrHairgrease	so, how many JT is it over here then?	17:19
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@rizen	it's JT -0	17:20
@rizen	but relative time that makes it 9am	17:21
@rizen	=)	17:21
+MrHairgrease	minus zero	17:21
@rizen	ok, i'll be willing to give up JT time to get rid of both time zones and daylight savings time adjustments	17:21
@rizen	cuz both are absolutely stupid	17:22
+MrHairgrease	well, tz's help to define things like morning and evening	17:22
@rizen	nope	17:23
@rizen	morning and evening are relative to position of sun in the sky..it really has nothing to do with time of day	17:24
@rizen	we have just set up our time system so they correlate	17:24
+MrHairgrease	In the netherlands the position of the sun is determined by the time	17:24
@rizen	interesting	17:25
@rizen	does the sun revolve around the earth in the netherlands?	17:25
+MrHairgrease	No, the sun and the earth too for that matter, revolve around Delft	17:26
@rizen	ah	17:26
@rizen	well delft is the engineering capitol of the world	17:26
+MrHairgrease	And sometime around the LHC	17:26
+MrHairgrease	if they're trying to destroy earth again	17:27
+MrHairgrease	true	17:27
+MrHairgrease	Delft houses the smartest people	17:27
+MrHairgrease	and the best looking too	17:27
+MrHairgrease	both groups tend to overlap	17:27
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bartjol	damn, I'm only good looking	17:29
+MrHairgrease	of course you are	17:30
+MrHairgrease	you're from delft	17:30
@rizen	i've been to delft, does that count for anything?	17:30
+MrHairgrease	and therefore you must be pretty smart too	17:30
bartjol	is there a possiblility that nl.js (for tinymce) will be in the WebGUI distro	17:30
bartjol	?	17:30
@rizen	bart is it not in there now?	17:30
bartjol	nope	17:30
+MrHairgrease	rizen: only a bit, but it wears off over time	17:30
@rizen	add a bug report	17:30
bartjol	well, on my server it is	17:30
@rizen	we'll get it in for you	17:30
bartjol	I allready did	17:30
+MrHairgrease	so yo0u really should come over again	17:30
@rizen	hehe, ok mrhairgrease	17:31
bartjol	His wife is coming in may/june MrHairgrease	17:31
@rizen	i'll be close next summer...Portugal	17:31
+MrHairgrease	yeah the yapc	17:31
bartjol	Portugese people are ugly	17:31
+MrHairgrease	oqapi is going there too	17:31
+MrHairgrease	if everything goes ok	17:31
bartjol	rizen: is nl.js WebGUI specific with other words, do you need a translation from me, or is it a default one?	17:35
@rizen	it's the default one	17:36
@rizen	we always just use their translations	17:36
bartjol	ok, then I won't bother about that	17:36
bartjol	the german's missing too	17:36
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7811 /WebGUI/ (7 files in 4 dirs): fixed: some default assets have ids shorter than 22 characters	18:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7812 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: failure when submitting a dataform that sends mail with an empty file field	18:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7813 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm ignores height on textarea fields	18:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7814 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm doesn't keep posted values properly when data fails validation	18:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7815 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: failure when submitting a dataform that sends mail with an empty file field	18:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7816 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm ignores height on textarea fields	18:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7817 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm doesn't keep posted values properly when data fails validation	18:30
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7818 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed: DataForm entry table isn't properly indexed	18:31
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+perlDreamer	go Haarg!	18:40
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7819 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm can't export fields containing newlines	19:02
@preaction	I want to make it so I could define "value => label" inside of Thingy list-type form elements (and DataForm, and Profile), can anyone think of why this might be a bad idea?	19:06
@preaction	(this is for the "Possible Values" field)	19:06
+perlDreamer	so that it works like Profile Fields?	19:07
@Haarg	don't like pipes?	19:09
@preaction	pipes is how it does it now?	19:12
@Haarg	yeah	19:12
@preaction	in lib/WebGUI/Form/DynamicField.pm it doesn't seem to do any translating at all	19:12
@Haarg	it's in the form controls	19:12
@Haarg	list	19:13
@preaction	yeah, i see it now	19:13
@preaction	i'll update all the docs, Dataform and thingy don't have that in there	19:14
@preaction	pretty sure Profile doesn't either	19:14
@Haarg	profile handles it separately	19:14
@preaction	good lord why?	19:14
@Haarg	because that's how it was written	19:15
@preaction	anyway	19:15
@Haarg	profile uses real perl hashes	19:15
+perlDreamer	put that on the wG 8 TODO list ;)	19:15
@Haarg	and secureevals them	19:15
@Haarg	yeah, it's something that is planned to change	19:15
@preaction	where are these plans? i've been leaving #TODO: comments in the code so future generations know what needs to be fixed	19:16
+perlDreamer	Can we start a wiki page for them?	19:16
@preaction	i'm lazy, so i wouldn't expect that page to be used :(	19:17
@preaction	or by change do we mean the Form::Control getEditForm method?	19:20
@Haarg	i meant how the profile system handles multiple values/evals	19:21
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CIA-39	WebGUI: doug * r7820 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fixed documentation for dataform and thingy Possible Values field	19:32
CIA-39	WebGUI: doug * r7821 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 2 dirs): backport 7820	19:32
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@rizen	perlDreamer: regarding webgui 8 changes. right now i'm just keeping the list in my head. this is mainly because i simply don't want people commenting on this stuff until i've had a chance to work it out in my head	19:55
@rizen	that's why there is no public list anywhere	19:55
@rizen	it sucks to have people second guessing you when you are still second guessing yourself	19:55
@rizen	but yes, there will be some rather massive changes to the forms system in webgui 8	19:56
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7822 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: Shortcuts includes HTML head data twice	20:03
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7823 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fixed: some default assets have ids shorter than 22 characters	20:03
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7824 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.5.25.pl: typo in upgrade script	20:03
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7825 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.24-7.5.25.pl: forgot to add upgrade function to be ran	20:03
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7826 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList templates use incorrect variable names	20:03
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+perlDreamer	got it, rizen.	20:36
+perlDreamer	Ixnay on the ikiway	20:36
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zylopfa	Greetingd	20:42
zylopfa	woops greetings that is	20:42
zylopfa	I am about to make a english language version of my website and i want it to be in the /en directory	20:43
zylopfa	Anyone know how i make a full copy of the /home branch?	20:43
+perlDreamer	zylopfa, I _think_ that you go to the /home page and edit the page	20:44
+perlDreamer	Find the Make Package setting, and set it to yes.	20:44
+perlDreamer	then, go to the Asset Manager	20:45
+perlDreamer	Navigate to where you want to place the copy	20:45
+perlDreamer	then Deploy the package	20:45
zylopfa	ahh thanks a lot friend	20:45
+perlDreamer	you're welcome, but do try it out to make sure I'm right first ;)	20:46
zylopfa	yeah I am on it :D	20:46
zylopfa	Thanks a lot perlDreamer it works !	20:58
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+perlDreamer	cool. You can wiki that if you wish.	20:59
+perlDreamer	Yay, bopbop!	21:06
@apeiron	/Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh	21:06
+perlDreamer	....and jt for president	21:06
@apeiron	/Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh	21:06
+perlDreamer	is apeiron really a bot?	21:06
@apeiron	/Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh	21:06
+perlDreamer	interesting	21:06
@apeiron	/Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh	21:06
@apeiron	that's not right	21:06
+perlDreamer	I wouldn't think so	21:07
@apeiron	o_O	21:07
@apeiron	perlDreamer, Thanks for pinging me, I wouldn't have noticed that otherwise.	21:07
+perlDreamer	It just started a few messages ago	21:07
@apeiron	Yeah, trying to set up a script to notify me of privmsgs and I seem to be Doing It Wrong.	21:08
@apeiron	ah, now I get it.	21:09
+perlDreamer	/Users/apeiron/.irssi/scripts/bgtriggers/receive.sh	21:09
@apeiron	perlDreamer++ # helping me debug stuff	21:10
@apeiron	Sorry for the spam, folks; on the plus side, I shouldn't miss any privmsgs now unless I'm actually gone. :)	21:11
@rizen	apeiron, if you just used a real irc client it would do that for you anyway	21:11
@rizen	=)	21:12
@apeiron	rizen, I've been thinking about that, too, actually.	21:12
@rizen	colloquy is what most of PB uses, but there are plenty of others for the mac as well	21:13
* apeiron nods		21:13
@preaction	XChat Aqua doesn't piss me off as much as Colloquy does	21:13
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Lisette	i can do an utility that send email?	21:13
@preaction	yes	21:13
Lisette	the api is the same for the macros?	21:14
Lisette	for the send emails?	21:14
+perlDreamer	No	21:14
+perlDreamer	Macro API is very different from sending emails	21:14
Lisette	how to do?	21:14
@apeiron	Perhaps Lisette's question is: is the API for sending mail from a utility the same as it is for sending mail from a macro?	21:14
Lisette	i can use the package WebGUI::Send	21:14
@apeiron	That's what it seems to be to me, anyway.	21:15
@preaction	Lisette, yes. WebGUI::Mail::Send	21:15
Lisette	ok, thanks	21:15
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Bernd_	Question to everyone: How do I test for unset variables or empty strings?	22:39
Bernd_	I need to check template variables that are filled by a macro.	22:39
Bernd_	If the macro does not work correctly, the variables may be either undef or empty.	22:40
Bernd_	What would be a failsafe testing expression?=	22:40
+perlDreamer	Bernd_: is this for your user's logged in macro?	22:40
Bernd_	Yes.	22:40
+perlDreamer	Well, I think you just need to set up a test case where all template variables are guaranteed to be filled in.	22:41
Bernd_	So far I have defined a boolean variable that is true by default.	22:41
Bernd_	Afterwards, I add tests with the expression "flag &&= <expression>"	22:41
Bernd_	No, you got me wrong.	22:42
Bernd_	I want to test, whether all variables do contain a value after having parsed the JSON structure.	22:42
Bernd_	I mean, I want to know whether the macro has filled them all correctly.	22:43
+perlDreamer	use Test::Deep	22:43
Bernd_	That is for comparing nested arrays and hashes, right?	22:44
+perlDreamer	Yes	22:44
Bernd_	But I do not have anything to compare against.	22:44
+perlDreamer	You'll have to make one by hand	22:44
Bernd_	Check this pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/dfbceb15	22:44
Bernd_	Maybe, it is clearer then.	22:44
+perlDreamer	Yes, it is clearer	22:45
Bernd_	Except for a few variables I do not know what to expect.	22:45
Bernd_	I just want to be sure variables have been set.	22:45
Bernd_	But the current code does not work properly.	22:45
+perlDreamer	Do you know what kind of data to expect?	22:45
+perlDreamer	is it a number	22:45
+perlDreamer	or a string	22:45
+perlDreamer	or something else?	22:45
Bernd_	Mostly.	22:45
Bernd_	But for the moment I just want to check that it is not empty or undefined.	22:46
+perlDreamer	Well, Test::Deep will let you test for exactness, or for classes of stuff	22:46
+perlDreamer	you can specify a regex, for example	22:46
+perlDreamer	or you can ignore fields completely, using the ignore() method	22:46
+perlDreamer	perldoc Test::Deep	22:46
Bernd_	Ok, I will check. Thanks!	22:47
+perlDreamer	for example, the "bool" method may be of use	22:48
+perlDreamer	but it will fail on 0	22:48
+perlDreamer	which might be valid data	22:48
Bernd_	You are right.	22:49
Bernd_	I think it is something similar that happens.	22:49
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Bernd_	Would it be enough to test for the length of strings to be larger than 0?	22:50
+perlDreamer	I with Test::Deep had a defined method built in	22:50
+perlDreamer	but, in the meantime, re('.') should work okay	22:51
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+perlDreamer	which matches any 1 character	22:51
Bernd_	I am going to check.	22:51
+perlDreamer	if it is undef or empty string, that regex will fail	22:51
Bernd_	Thanks again!	22:51
+perlDreamer	You're welcome, Bernd.	22:52
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lisette_	Ji Lissete	22:56
lisette_	Hi	22:56
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lisette_	How are you	22:56
lisette_	Anybody knows the best solution to integrate a chat with webGui	22:59
Bernd_	lisette_: There is a simple chat asset in the bazaar.	22:59
@rizen	lisette_ yeah, point them to irc with a link	23:00
@rizen	=)	23:00
@rizen	irc://irc.freenode.net#nameyourchannel	23:00
Bernd_	Not sure if it is still working.	23:00
Bernd_	Alternatively, you could use cgiirc.	23:01
Bernd_	That is an IRC web client written in perl	23:01
Bernd_	Runs inside the WRE.	23:01
Bernd_	That is what we are using on our site.	23:01
Bernd_	However, integration is poor.	23:01
Bernd_	perlDreamer: Seems to work!	23:07
Bernd_	But I have one more question.	23:08
+perlDreamer	ask away	23:08
Bernd_	I also need to check for the presence of the default template.	23:08
+perlDreamer	yes	23:08
+perlDreamer	I have done that in two ways	23:08
Bernd_	An instance can be created with my $defTemplate = WebGUI::Asset->new($session, 'pUwYHCjfQUMcRXRmKOlaRQ');	23:08
+perlDreamer	1) Use lots of little regular expressions	23:08
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+perlDreamer	2) Use HTML::Parser to do light weight parsing of the HTML	23:09
+perlDreamer	I would fully test with the JSON template	23:09
+perlDreamer	and then restrict the default template testing to 1 user	23:09
+perlDreamer	just 1 user	23:09
Bernd_	???	23:09
Bernd_	I cannot follow.	23:09
Bernd_	I meant, I want to check whether the default template for the macro was delivered with WebGUI.	23:10
Bernd_	What is the best way for testing that?	23:10
+perlDreamer	oh, in that case, yes. Build an instance to the template.	23:10
Bernd_	Shall I create an instance and catch any errors with eval?	23:10
+perlDreamer	yes	23:10
elnino_home	Hi! Can the newsletter handle a two column format for email delivery?	23:10
Bernd_	Alright. I think that's it. Thanks again!	23:11
+perlDreamer	Bitteschoen	23:11
Bernd_	I wonder how many more times I am going to write that last sentence :-)	23:11
Bernd_	Danke sch�n!	23:11
+perlDreamer	I need to use an international keyboard	23:11
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topsub	can we make it so if your not logged into the website ( webgui.org) and try to post something helpful to the wiki it will tell you before you type all this usefull information in there and it says "Permission Denied!"	23:23
topsub	Tried to updated the wiki with this information and lost it now due to i'm not logged in which ididn't know	23:24
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@preaction	topsub, hitting back doesn't make your browser keep the form as it was?	23:24
topsub	no :-(	23:24
topsub	didn't for me	23:24
topsub	FF3	23:24
@preaction	it shouldn't allow you to see the edit tab if you can't edit. i would consider that a bug (but others may disagree)	23:25
topsub	i'm not logged in right now and i can see the edit tab	23:25
+perlDreamer	file it	23:25
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juan	i have a lot pages in active sessions, the respective workflow to delet them is not executing	23:28
Bernd_	rizen, I think I am done with the testing function for the UsersOnline macro.	23:28
Bernd_	But I would like to know your opinion on what should be tested.	23:29
@rizen	nice job Bernd_	23:29
Bernd_	I have implemented the following tests:	23:29
Bernd_	- labels are set correctly	23:29
Bernd_	- all template variables are filled	23:29
Bernd_	- the default template is there	23:29
juan	how can i delete them?	23:29
Bernd_	- artificially created users show up	23:30
juan	why my workflows are not executing?	23:30
Bernd_	- some logic on returned numers	23:30
Bernd_	numbers, of course	23:30
Bernd_	Is there anything else to do?	23:30
@rizen	do you test any/all parameters that can be passed into the macro	23:30
@rizen	to make sure that a) it doesn't crash or worse, and b) that it does the right thing with that data	23:31
Bernd_	Not really.	23:31
@rizen	what params can be passed in?	23:31
Bernd_	a) Max number of users and visitors to be listed	23:31
Bernd_	b) Max time since last activity for being considered active	23:32
Bernd_	Default values are set in the macro	23:32
@rizen	are they easily testable by parsing the output?	23:32
Bernd_	Not sure what would be good test values	23:32
+perlDreamer	0 is a good test value	23:32
@preaction	or 1	23:33
Bernd_	Ok, I am going to include 0 and 1.	23:33
+perlDreamer	Bernd_: just make sure that they work the way you expect	23:33
Bernd_	Hm, difficult to check.	23:33
@rizen	our next RFE day is in two weeks	23:33
@rizen	if you can have your tests and everything completd by then	23:33
@rizen	we can review the macro	23:33
@rizen	and get it into the core	23:33
Bernd_	Sounds great!	23:34
Bernd_	But I think it is possible.	23:34
Bernd_	Ok, back to work.	23:34
Bernd_	Thanks everyone!	23:34
@rizen	holy crap!	23:34
+perlDreamer	Hack on, Bernd_	23:34
@rizen	there are 33 people in IRC	23:34
+perlDreamer	Yeah, dude. Where have you been?	23:34
@rizen	that's a lot considering today isn't a special event or anything	23:35
@rizen	it seems to average around 26 or so	23:35
+perlDreamer	"Today is Thursday. Everybody " is in IRC " on Thursday."	23:35
@perlmonkey2	all i can say is this is probably the smartest solution I've ever come up with: http://pastebin.com/d42b9562a	23:40
Lisette	whats mean ITransact?	23:40
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+perlDreamer	ITransact is the name of a company that handles credit card processing on the internet.	23:41
Lisette	thanks	23:43
BartJol	well, peaks shouldn't last too long, so bye	23:49
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elnino_home	hello! we're going to be using teh newsletter asset now, was wondering if it can handle a two column format for email delivery?	23:50
elnino_home	or maybe the question is: can you select a "page layout" type thing for newsletters?	23:50
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elnino_home	hmmm. still not seeing that type of functionality. That kinda stinks.	23:52
elnino_home	I wonder if there is a way to use pagelayouts, and workflows to take a pagelayout and sent IT as the newsletter?	23:53
--- Day changed Fri Oct 03 2008
elnino_home	ah. newsletter is a cs system, so I have userdefined fields.that might work.	00:10
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@Haarg	i need to get the POD test working at some point. it would be really easy to add the pod it is complaining about	00:17
@Haarg	then we'd just have the labels test failing	00:17
juan	i have the next error when i try to edit a post	00:21
juan	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m21da2908	00:21
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, did those modifications to the syntax checker i was talking about yesterday sound reasonable?	00:23
juan	i can not save the post	00:23
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, yes. I'd still prefer the pre-commit hook, though	00:25
+perlDreamer	No need to commit broken code	00:25
@preaction	i think that a hook to test code would encourage reliance on the testing to catch stupid mistakes (instead of testing yourself)	00:26
@Haarg	do you think it should test them in an eval or a subprocess?	00:32
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I'm not sure what the difference would be.	00:33
+perlDreamer	People always complain about speed, though	00:33
@Haarg	mainly if it attempted to use a module without 'use'ing it	00:33
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7827 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum/permission.t: make GalleryAlbum test run, and fix it	00:51
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7828 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.5.10-7.5.11.pl: fix upgrade script setting defaults	00:51
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7829 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.5.25 release	00:51
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Lisette	i can do a list of wish in the shop?	02:28
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+perlDreamer	The shop does not have a wish list feature yet	02:28
Lisette	ok, thanks	02:29
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Bernd_	Alright, I have implemented some tests on parameters.	02:37
Bernd_	An update is available in the bazaar.	02:37
CIA-39	WebGUI: jt * r7830 /releases/WebGUI_7.5.25-stable: Release 7.5.25-stable	02:38
Bernd_	Tomorrow, I am going to submit an RFE for inclusion into the core.	02:38
Bernd_	Good night and happy coding!	02:38
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, thoughts on this? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m43489b4c	02:45
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7831 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (4 files in 4 dirs): preparing for 7.5.26 dev	03:19
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kurios63	hello all	12:31
BartJol	hi	12:38
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:18
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estiven	Morning..	16:56
estiven	I want to install the spectre in other machine.. (actually run in the same machine when i have install WG)....	16:57
estiven	what files do i need to install in the new machine?	16:59
BartJol	it is just a new machine?	16:59
BartJol	that hasn't got spectre yet?	16:59
BartJol	it should be in the WG install	17:00
estiven	yes is a new machine...	17:00
estiven	mm, ok	17:00
BartJol	can't you just install the wre	17:00
BartJol	spectre is in /data/WebGUI/sbin	17:01
estiven	ok, no problem...	17:01
BartJol	and the spectre.conf in /data/WebGUI/etc	17:01
BartJol	should work	17:01
estiven	but, the configuration that i have in the WG.... is the same that i need in the new mahcine...	17:02
estiven	only change the parametres for spectre conect...	17:02
estiven	ip, port, etc...	17:02
BartJol	well, copy your config to the other machine	17:02
BartJol	change the necessary information	17:02
BartJol	that is configuration :)	17:03
estiven	jeje, ok, but if i change the configuration in the one machine i need to change to the other...?	17:03
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estiven	or just share the configuration files in a central storage...	17:04
BartJol	you want two machines use the same spectre?	17:04
estiven	yes..	17:04
BartJol	sorry, two WebGUI installs	17:04
estiven	or more	17:05
estiven	no	17:05
estiven	i what to use a balancer..	17:05
BartJol	same spectre or same spectre configuration?	17:05
estiven	same spectre configuration...	17:06
estiven	the espectre in the new machine run the spectre install there	17:07
BartJol	well, I'm not sure about this	17:07
estiven	jmm,	17:08
estiven	so i need to try..	17:08
BartJol	indeed	17:08
BartJol	but spectre itself also has an IP	17:08
BartJol	so ig you use 1 config, I think u use 1 spectre	17:08
BartJol	s/\sig/if/	17:09
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estiven	ok, I will try it and I will tell you about it...	17:11
BartJol	that would be nice	17:11
estiven	thanks	17:12
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SquOnk	Hi everyone	18:54
SquOnk	Updated 7.5.24 Debian packages at the usual place.	18:54
@perlmonkey2	swa-eet	18:58
SquOnk	I have a nice proposal for a Module::Build installation schema, sans test running :-)	19:07
SquOnk	I'll probably get it done by next weekend. I have to take and grade 40 tests next tuesday...	19:07
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@Haarg	perlDreamer, see any issues with this? http://webgui.pastebin.com/m43489b4c	20:33
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+perlDreamer	on phone, will look soon	20:34
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, it looks fine. I only see one thing that I might tweak, and it's very nit-picky	20:48
+perlDreamer	I'd create another enclosing scope around the foreach, and do the ^W and SIG-WARN stuff just once	20:48
+perlDreamer	actually, that's so minor I'd just skip it	20:48
@Haarg	there's no need to have the ENV check in that, since it runs fast	20:49
@Haarg	so i'll probably just remove it	20:50
@Haarg	the $SIG{__WARN__} can't go outside the loop	20:51
@Haarg	since it needs to reference the $warnings that is defined inside the for	20:52
+perlDreamer	ah, yeah	20:52
+perlDreamer	you're right	20:52
@perlmonkey2	If you only want to attach information during a single post session, can you attach it to the session object?	21:27
@perlmonkey2	$self->session->{myTempInfo}?	21:27
@preaction	perlmonkey2, use stow	21:30
@preaction	WebGUI::Session::Stow	21:31
CIA-39	WebGUI: translation * r7832 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Tax.pm ShipDriver_FlatRate.pm PayDriver_Cash.pm Shop.pm): Update from translation server	21:47
CIA-39	WebGUI: translation * r7833 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/Asset_Sku.pm: Update from translation server	21:47
CIA-39	WebGUI: translation * r7834 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/ (Asset_StockData.pm Asset_Sku.pm): Update from translation server	21:47
ckotil	Anyone know if there is an rfe for changing an assets ranking when you drag and drop an asset in the web view?	21:51
+perlDreamer	ckotil, doesn't that work now? Drag and drop in the Asset Manager? Or are you talking about in the Page view?	21:52
ckotil	page view.	21:52
+perlDreamer	I think those are different mechanisms	21:52
+perlDreamer	asset rank is the default order	21:52
ckotil	It seems that webgui keeps track of order when you drag and drop, but it doesnt update the ranking	21:52
@preaction	it keeps track of the order in a different way, because of the different content positions	21:53
+perlDreamer	if you move stuff in the page view, it says, "The user does not want ranking order anymore, but a custom order"	21:53
@preaction	Layout positions are not asset ranks	21:53
+perlDreamer	That is so succinct	21:53
ckotil	id rather it say 'User changed the order, so change the rank'	21:53
+perlDreamer	That would make an RFE	21:53
ckotil	OK, thanks	21:54
ckotil	http://www.palinwink.com/	21:57
@preaction	when McCain and Palin win there will be dancing in the streets!	21:58
@preaction	and the Top Gun theme played at high volume throughout the land!	21:59
@preaction	he should've played Maverick, since he's such a maverick	21:59
@rizen	preaction must die	22:01
@rizen	$100 to the first person to kill preaction	22:01
@rizen	oh wait, that's not worth anything	22:01
@rizen	100 euros to the first person to kill preaction	22:01
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@perlmonkey2	for some strange reason the dollar is getting stronger against the euro through all of this.	22:14
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ckotil	longest RFE i've made.	22:20
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jlittlewood	does anyone know if ^FormParam() works over ssl?	22:38
@Haarg	it should	22:38
jlittlewood	it is doing some funky funky stuff	22:38
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jlittlewood	I'm trying to passthru info in a URL (a membership ID #) and put ^FormParam() into a field in a table... the first couple 'o times you to the page it doesn't seem to populate the field, but on the 3rd try it does.	22:39
Lisette	i can do a pin with a product and this expires me	22:40
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isaac_	yoyo	22:58
isaac_	Ok. I'm getting ready to trace down this spectre problem. but wanted to check here and see if anyone has seen/fixed this already.	22:59
isaac_	here's the dealio:	23:00
isaac_	$instance->delete;\nreturn $self->COMPLETE;	23:00
isaac_	is not working for me in an activity	23:00
isaac_	spectre basically deletes from it's queue before it gets the response.	23:00
isaac_	so I see this when running debug:	23:01
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isaac_	WORKFLOW: Deleting workflow instance nPhqKqKm-0qGTFMs-JCMbg from queue.	23:01
isaac_	WORKFLOW: Retrieving response from workflow instance.	23:01
isaac_	WORKFLOW: Response retrieved is for nPhqKqKm-0qGTFMs-JCMbg	23:01
isaac_	WORKFLOW: Response for nPhqKqKm-0qGTFMs-JCMbg retrieved successfully	23:01
isaac_	then it goes to post the status on the workflow and starts error'ing out since the object still exists in spectre but it's empty	23:02
isaac_	WORKFLOW: Preparing to run workflow instance .	23:02
isaac_	WORKFLOW: Posting workflow instance to http://:80.	23:02
isaac_	WORKFLOW: Workflow instance posted.	23:03
isaac_	afk for a few min. since no seems to be here atm. (lunch?)	23:03
+perlDreamer	isaac_, please paste all that into a pastebin.	23:03
+perlDreamer	Otherwise, when preaction comes back he'll boot you from the channel	23:03
@Haarg	also first thing to do is check your sitename	23:03
@Haarg	it needs to be a hostname you can access the site through	23:04
+perlDreamer	whoa	23:04
+perlDreamer	new webgui.org styling	23:04
@preaction	perlDreamer, where?	23:05
+perlDreamer	participate page	23:05
+perlDreamer	faded bg's	23:05
+perlDreamer	looks nice	23:05
@preaction	indeed, me likes	23:05
+perlDreamer	is that steve-o?	23:05
+perlDreamer	or tabbbbbbbbbbbb	23:06
@preaction	dunno	23:06
@preaction	where are the designers today?	23:06
@perlmonkey2	Designing?	23:09
isaac_	pastebin?	23:10
isaac_	what's a pastebin?	23:11
@preaction	isaac_, webgui.pastebin.com <- paste large blocks of text there	23:11
@preaction	then give us the URL	23:11
isaac_	hah... k	23:11
isaac_	sry	23:11
isaac_	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d29a8bfa6	23:12
isaac_	for anyone inteested.	23:12
@preaction	wth... spectre is running a blank workflow?	23:13
@preaction	restart spectre perhaps?	23:13
@preaction	oh, you're trying to stop the instance from running anymore, i remember now	23:14
isaac_	yeah. I was going with a another workaround. setting the instance to the last activity	23:14
isaac_	but it ends up wanting to instanciate another instance of my object at the very end for some reason, which causes me more problems	23:14
isaac_	so I'm trying to go back to this, since it's more clean/kosher anyhow	23:15
@preaction	pastebin your whole activity and let me see	23:15
isaac_	k.	23:15
isaac_	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d3a558e5d	23:16
isaac_	there's alot of commented out stuff since I've been chewing on it	23:16
isaac_	the relevant portion is lines 111-119	23:17
@preaction	and you're using 7.5.x?	23:17
isaac_	no	23:17
isaac_	just upgraded to 7.4.40	23:18
isaac_	on my dev system	23:18
isaac_	am moving to 7.5 shortly. but was trying to get this fixed before I can do that.	23:18
isaac_	I didn't really see anything int he bugs about this when I searched. I was about to go browse the depot to see if there were any relavant spectre chnages since 7.4..40 that might pertain	23:19
@preaction	isaac_, change $instance->delete to $instance->delete(1); and see what happens	23:21
isaac_	tried that.	23:22
isaac_	no luck. I'll verify again. 1 sec	23:22
@preaction	nm then	23:22
@preaction	i can only say to make a dev instance of 7.5.x and see if it works	23:22
@preaction	or better yet, SVN HEAD	23:22
isaac_	k. That's what I figured. Just thought I'd check	23:23
isaac_	thanks	23:23
isaac_	hmm...	23:25
isaac_	now it's working	23:25
isaac_	I must not have reset everything after trying the ->delete(1) before	23:25
isaac_	argh	23:25
isaac_	<loose nut behind the keyboard porblem>	23:25
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@preaction	it's weird that it works, but if it does it might mean that the existing activities in webgui are broken	23:25
isaac_	it looked like a timing issue before, since it deletes before it has the return status ont he activity. then gets the return status and basically creates and empty wofklow object in spectre to put the return status in	23:27
isaac_	I haven't spent much time in the lib/Spectre/* stuff lately	23:28
isaac_	I was pretty sure this wasn't working before. But then I was in 7.4.16 so something may have changed since then.	23:28
isaac_	that impacted this. Now I just have to chew through these JSON 2 issues.	23:28
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isaac_	bbl	00:06
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Mech422	hi all - I'm just starting to go thru the dev. info on the wiki, and I was wondering what the difference is between an 'asset' and a 'wobject' ?	01:40
@preaction	depends: Are you a programmer?	01:40
@preaction	if you're not a programmer: there is no difference	01:41
@preaction	if you're a programmer: A Wobject is a broad type of Asset that provides additional basic functionality like style templates	01:41
Mech422	preaction: I'm a programmer - but haven't done anything with webgui yet	01:42
Mech422	preaction: do you develop with webgui ?	01:42
@preaction	yes	01:42
@preaction	all the +o in this channel are Plain Black staff	01:42
Mech422	preaction: oh sorry	01:42
@preaction	they aren't all programmers though	01:43
@preaction	tavisto couldn't find a closure with both hands in broad daylight if you gave him a map and there were pretty girls standing next to it	01:43
Mech422	I was gonna ask you about the learning curve, and what sort of payoff you got in application development time - but if your with plain black, you probably didn't have a learning curve - you sort of defined it ?	01:43
@preaction	uh... Jt wrote WebGUI, he's the only one who really didn't have a learning curve	01:44
@tavisto	that is correct.	01:44
@preaction	i'm not JT, I had to learn everything myself	01:44
@preaction	the learning curve is dependant on your fluency with Perl and OO systems	01:45
@preaction	if you're good with Perl and good with OO, then you shouldn't have to worry too much	01:45
@preaction	I suggest picking up the WebGUI Developer's Guide	01:45
Mech422	preaction: I did some pretty strong OO perl stuff - but that was about 10 years ago before Moose, POE, etc.	01:46
@preaction	we don't use any of that stuff really	01:46
@preaction	Spectre uses POE, but you don't have to worry about it (the real functionality isn't in POE)	01:46
Mech422	preaction: yeah - if we go with webgui, I'll need to order a full set of manuals... for now, we're just playing...	01:46
@preaction	we use Class::InsideOut for some things now, but most of the plugin points are standard Perl OO stuff	01:46
@preaction	we also do on-site training, i'm going to a couple places over the next couple weeks to do design, front-end, and programming training	01:47
Mech422	preaction: I've got about 20 hours this weekend to attempt some 'simple' tasks and try and get a 'realistic' feel for learning curve vs. dev. time stuff	01:47
@preaction	it's not that bad really, as long as you start small	01:47
@preaction	check out lib/WebGUI/Asset/_asset.skeleton	01:47
@preaction	lib/WebGUI/Macro/_macro.skeleton	01:48
@preaction	lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/_wobject.skeleton	01:48
@preaction	there are a bunch more skeletons like that	01:48
Mech422	heh - the starting small part is gonna be tough, as webgui already provides most stuff 'out of the box'	01:48
@preaction	yeah, there is that	01:48
Mech422	I might have to re-create a simple content type just to have something to benchmark	01:48
@preaction	Thingy especially takes a lot of the work out of programmer's hands	01:49
Mech422	on the other hand, that would allow me to see how mine compared to the 'reference implementation'	01:49
Mech422	Ahh - yeah, I've heard good things about Thingy - but haven't gotten to anything about it on the wiki yet	01:49
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Mech422	(I'm reading the 'getting started with development' page and all linked refereneces)	01:50
@preaction	to re-create the Article asset, for example, would probably take me just a couple hours. a lot of functionality of WebGUI is in WebGUI::Form::Control and its subclasses, the Asset->definition sub, and otherwise	01:50
Mech422	I was thinking much simpler - like maybe a static text asset or something :-)	01:51
@preaction	that's kinda what the Article is, plus file attachments (easy to do with a WebGUI::Form::File control)	01:51
@preaction	oh, it's templatable too i guess	01:51
Mech422	this trivia object in the wobject tutorial could be good too	01:52
@preaction	if you just want a static text asset: package WebGUI::Asset::StaticText; sub view { return "Hello, World\n" }	01:52
@preaction	then add "WebGUI::Asset::StaticText" to your configuration file (under the "assets" section), and it should work	01:52
Mech422	oh...umm..yeah, that might be a bit too small :-)	01:53
@preaction	then add to that, a definition sub, which defines a table in the database for the asset to store data	01:53
@preaction	the form to edit the asset is generated automatically, so all you need to do is get the data using $self->get("yourParameterName")	01:54
Mech422	hmm - sql is handled in-line via basic strings right ? no ORM or whatnot ?	01:55
@preaction	the asset itself is the ORM, though if you want collateral data in a 1-1 or 1-many relationship you can use WebGUI::Crud (added in 7.6.0)	01:56
@preaction	but no forced ORM, no	01:56
@preaction	WebGUI doesn't try to overcomplicate things (unless its absolutely necessary)	01:57
Mech422	looking at this trivia wobject - the code seems fairly straight forward	01:58
@preaction	yeah, simple stuff is pretty simple to do. no fancy relationship building, no requiring templates or otherwise	02:00
Mech422	how about js enabled form controls / ajax ? Is there an included js library or a 'preferred' library for use with webgui ?	02:04
@preaction	we include and use YUI with WebGUI	02:05
@preaction	the Date / Time controls use YUI's calendar	02:05
@preaction	there will be a DataForm control in 7.6.x that uses YUI	02:05
@preaction	DataForms are used all over, in fact	02:05
@preaction	that doesn't preclude using other JS libraries	02:06
@preaction	it just means that YUI is what the default code will use, admin tools and such	02:06
Mech422	ahh cool...	02:07
Mech422	do 'DataForms' support some sort of automated validation and redisplayed? For instance, if a required field is missing when a user submits a form, can it re-display the form with an error message and preserve the values they had entered originally (so all they have to do is populate the missing required field) ?	02:09
@preaction	the Dataform asset? it should	02:10
Mech422	nice - that sort of functionality removes a lot of drudge work :-)	02:10
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@preaction	tavisto, when's the next free webinar? or have we stopped doing that sort of stuff now?	02:12
@tavisto	This wednesday @ 2pm EDT (GMT -4)	02:12
@tavisto	Register online @ www.plainblack.com/webinar	02:12
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@tavisto	gah sorry GMT -5	02:13
Mech422	oh thanks guys - I'll do that now	02:13
@preaction	are there topics? or just "whatever we wnt to talk about"?	02:13
@tavisto	it's always a sales tool used for introducing WebGUI to potential customers and users	02:15
@tavisto	in the future we'll offer other webinars when we have time. :)	02:15
@tavisto	it would be great to have weekly design and development webinars	02:15
@preaction	like step 2 webinars	02:16
@tavisto	exactly.	02:16
@preaction	step 1: what is webgui? what does it do?	02:16
@preaction	step 2: How to start your WebGUI site	02:16
Mech422	preaction: one thing we've found with our plone stuff...	02:17
Mech422	'skinners' / designers generally need some sort of 'light weight' training	02:18
Mech422	that doesn't 'fit' well with 'normal' programmer training	02:18
@preaction	how do you mean "doesn't fit well"?	02:18
@tavisto	I agree... give em a little push into the learning curve so they're excited and know what to do	02:18
@preaction	webgui style templates are pretty straightforward, add in macros and how to make Navigation assets and you're set	02:19
@preaction	5-8 hours of training and they're up and running really. provided they've already got strong HTML and CSS skills	02:19
@preaction	that's like classroom style training	02:20
@preaction	it depends, always, on the students (of course)	02:20
Mech422	Heh - Plone skinning are generally at least 3 days :-P	02:20
Mech422	s/skinning/skinning classes/	02:21
CIA-39	WebGUI: doug * r7835 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): added a new permission denied page for the manageVersionTags screen	02:21
@preaction	the hardest part is the Navigations really, you can get some extremely complex setups. and editing navigation templates can be simple, or it can be a nightmare	02:22
@preaction	http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/underground-style <- this style took me about 2 hours to do, starting with an HTML/CSS template and making it into a WebGUI style	02:23
@preaction	i'm also a programmer by trade, though i've got pretty strong HTML/CSS	02:23
Mech422	the biggest problem we have with nav is people always want 'exceptions' - "move this to the top of the nav", "only show this if that" - since plone autogenerates nav, 'exceptions' are a pain	02:24
@preaction	"only show this" is easy in WebGUI, the only things that show up in navs are assets the user is allowed to see	02:25
@preaction	"move this to the top" is also easy, WebGUI uses a "rank" system to order assets in navigations	02:25
@preaction	the Asset Manager manages the Rank of the asset. type in a new rank and click "Update" and it's moved	02:25
Mech422	plone considers security - but there's not a 'rank' type feature	02:26
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Mech422	oh - Here's Donna (SnowWrite)	02:26
Mech422	She does a bunch of Plone Skinning	02:27
SnowWrite_	:-) heard you guys were talking about skinning for WebGui :-) couldn't resist	02:27
SnowWrite_	what templating language does WebGui use?	02:27
* SnowWrite_ checks		02:27
@preaction	otherwise, if you need more flexibility over "Only show X if Y" then you can write a macro, the easiest thing to do for dev	02:27
@preaction	by default, right now, HTML::Template	02:27
@preaction	if you want, it can use HTML::Template::Expr or Template Toolkit	02:28
Mech422	Hmm - I18N looks pretty simple - no mucking about with getText like plone :-P	02:30
Mech422	just a module for each language with a dict of values ?	02:30
@preaction	nope. there's even a translation server to make a translation for you: http://i18n.webgui.org	02:30
@preaction	yeah, essentially	02:30
Mech422	cool :-)	02:31
SnowWrite_	hm, sexy template, http://www.lrnelson.com/ - not too sure about the green but I like the overall look	02:32
@preaction	navigation template in the bottom left could use some zazz	02:33
@preaction	same with the Article	02:33
@tavisto	I just recently put a bunch of those sites in the sightings area	02:33
@tavisto	there are hundreds of sites that still need to be posted....	02:33
@preaction	tavisto, you're doing that for all the PB hosted sites? ;)	02:34
@tavisto	the other sites listed at the bottom of that site are also powered by WebGUI	02:34
@tavisto	no, but that's what I mean...	02:34
@tavisto	there are hundreds that aren't posted.	02:34
@tavisto	I've been putting up a bunch of the ones I know about. But we have all sorts of types that aren't on there yet. In addition, I have a whole pile of success stories going up on the pb site	02:34
@preaction	wonder who did these sites, they're nice	02:35
SnowWrite_	some of them are really nice	02:35
@preaction	lazybones! get to it!	02:35
@tavisto	alright gang I'm off... ttyl	02:39
@preaction	cya	02:39
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@preaction	apeiron, perlmonkey2, perlDreamer: quick question for you guys: Would it be a Bad Idea to refactor WebGUI::AssetBranch->www_editBranchSave to have an WebGUI::Asset->editBranch method?	02:41
@preaction	the only way i can see this working is if it accepts a hashref of { name => value, } and also { name => sub { ... } }	02:41
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@preaction	the sub would get the asset as its first arg and would return the value to be saved	02:42
@preaction	this way we could build the URLs based on the asset's parent	02:42
@apeiron	preaction, www_editBranchSave is too big to fit on my screen; for that reasoning alone I say refactor it.	02:43
@apeiron	(my terminal has 59-60 some lines)	02:43
@preaction	but the optional subref thing... is that too complicated? is there a simpler way to do it?	02:43
Mech422	WOW! lineage looks slick!	02:44
@preaction	there seems a goodly amount of places we could be using subrefs like this that would simplify some of our code, this is one of them	02:44
Mech422	why didn't I think of something like that ? I've been mucking around with self-referential table joins to do that sort of thing !	02:44
@perlmonkey2	I like it	02:44
@preaction	Mech422, god yes. lineage is a lifesaver when working with the asset tree	02:45
Mech422	I've been beating my head silly trying to figure out how to eager load children etc etc....	02:45
* Mech422 bows to #webgui		02:45
@preaction	yeah, i was saying the same thing first time i saw lineage	02:45
@preaction	walking up the tree using just the parentId is painful	02:46
Mech422	oh! btw - consider that idea stolen^H^H^H^H^H^H borrowed...	02:46
Mech422	that is just too dam cool	02:46
+perlDreamer	1st, build tests	02:46
+perlDreamer	then, refactor	02:46
@preaction	if you use webgui, you don't have to stea^W borrow it	02:46
+perlDreamer	anything else is WebGUI 8	02:46
@preaction	perlDreamer, i hate you, but i shall do as you request	02:47
@preaction	;)	02:47
+perlDreamer	:)	02:47
Mech422	preaction: true - but its just such a cool general purpose idea...	02:47
@preaction	indeed	02:47
Mech422	preaction: like it would fit nicely in a 'category' system I'm doing for a banner ad server	02:48
Mech422	I was using self-referential joins to allow me to get an object and all its children in 1 query - but its just sooo clunky compared to lineage	02:48
+perlDreamer	Mech422: WebGUI has a banner ad system built in	02:48
Mech422	perlDreamer: :-D	02:49
@preaction	not just banner images, any HTML really	02:49
+perlDreamer	Keep going, SquOnk, you're almost at 50%!	02:49
+perlDreamer	preaction, also Flash, right?	02:50
@preaction	yup	02:50
@preaction	<object>, <embed>, or just <p> if you're lazy	02:50
@preaction	okay... what would you devs say to an extensible www_editBranch. such that (for example) the MessageBoard asset could expose more stuff to edit multiple Collab Systems at once	02:52
@preaction	or Gallery could edit multiple Albums at once	02:52
+perlDreamer	extensibility that isn't available in the generic UI isn't useful (IMO)	02:52
@preaction	how so?	02:53
+perlDreamer	in other words, if it doesn't work one level up, then users would see a different UI	02:53
@preaction	ah	02:53
+perlDreamer	But I'm also assuming an implementation	02:53
@preaction	there is that	02:53
+perlDreamer	and limitnig you mad creative genius	02:54
@preaction	i wasn't planning on making an implementation really, just a better way of doing edit branch. right now it assumes only two asset types: WebGUI::Asset and WebGUI::Asset::Wobject. if I use the definition() to detect fields I can allow all type	02:54
@preaction	but yeah, there is that roadblock	02:55
@preaction	okay, editBranch() won't be limited, if necessary it will do detecting to prevent errors. a new view could be added to those assets I mentioned that makes use of the editBranch() method	02:56
@preaction	it's something to ponder though. and editBranch needs to be done as a workflow anyway (since it can take more time than a browser allows)	02:56
+perlDreamer	yes!	03:04
+perlDreamer	It must be a workflow	03:04
+perlDreamer	that notifies the user somehow at the end	03:04
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dionak	quick question if anyone knows. i'm writing a test that creates a product and variant info and then executes a macro that queries the db for the variant info for all products. i'm not getting the behavior i'm expecting. do i need to commit the test version tag or update the product asset to get the test values to populate in the db?	03:23
@preaction	you might need to, if the macro isn't being run under the same session	03:23
dionak	it's not...	03:23
dionak	oh, wait. yes, it should be the same session	03:24
@preaction	yeah, unless you're specifically opening a new session, you shouldn't need to	03:24
dionak	ok, thanks	03:24
dionak	just curious if setCollateral automatically populated the db or was stored in memory.	03:25
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@preaction	automatically populates the DB	03:37
dionak	oh, it looks like i have the asset in memory and not in the db.	03:42
@preaction	did you use addChild?	03:43
dionak	yes	03:43
dionak	i could show you the code in pastebin	03:43
@preaction	then the asset should be in the database	03:44
@preaction	okay	03:44
dionak	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m16af69d0	03:45
dionak	adding variants works fine in the web interface, just wanted to expand the test for the macro	03:46
dionak	the macro thinks there are no webinar products with a price of 0. just a sanity check on the code would help	03:46
dionak	btw, i didn't know the new windows was out...just saw a commercial	03:46
dionak	dionak is a mac user	03:46
@preaction	windows 7 is out? or "Mojave"?	03:47
dionak	guess so...	03:47
dionak	Mojave	03:47
dionak	a commercial just came on advertising that people should upgrade	03:47
@preaction	Mojave is Vista	03:47
@preaction	http://mojaveexperiment.com	03:47
@preaction	they're trying to get over the stigma	03:48
dionak	interesting..	03:48
dionak	wonder if they fixed anything	03:48
dionak	guess they did via software patches and now need to overcome the initial problems	03:49
@preaction	they fixed a lot, i've used it and it works fine if I don't care about program compatibility	03:49
@preaction	it's still a huge break in the windows API	03:49
@preaction	dionak, your test looks okay to me, but i'm not very up on the product collateral code. perlDreamer could help more	03:51
dionak	ok, thanks for looking doug	03:51
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elnino	Mech4221 - webgui is pretty cool,I've been using it for two years now, and usually when I think I have to do something "custom" they've already thought of it, and it just ends up being something that needs tweeking. Macros are easy to write, and everyhting I've seen pretty clean code. Before going 'custom'make sure you ask, so you don't reinvent the wheel. Webgui is really feature rich.	04:13
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+perlDreamer	preaction, are you awake?	06:11
+perlDreamer	I can't believe the guy that posted the XSS bug about WebGUI	06:12
+perlDreamer	"Please contact us if you want a patch"	06:12
+perlDreamer	why in the world wouldn't they submit the patch to the bug?	06:13
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CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7836 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: fix writing to root and depending on config file values	10:58
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7837 /WebGUI/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: forward port test fixes for AssetExportHtml	10:58
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7838 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/lib/WebGUI/ (AssetExportHtml.pm International.pm i18n/English/Asset.pm): begin internationalizing AssetExportHtml error messages. This required adding a new character to the safe regexp in International.pm	10:58
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7839 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/t/Asset/AssetExportHtml.t: update test to reflect error message changes	10:58
CIA-39	WebGUI: colin * r7840 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 3 dirs): forward port i18n AssetExportHtml error messages	10:58
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CIA-39	WebGUI: chrisn * r7841 /WebGUI/docs/credits.txt: fix typo	17:43
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elnino	Hi all! Not EXACTLY webui question, but somewhat related. =) Is there a typical port to use when installing a second instance of apache? -	05:11
@Haarg	not really	05:19
@Haarg	there are some used commonly, like 8080, but it really doesn't make much difference	05:19
elnino	ok. thanks.	05:23
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elnino	help. I need to shutdown everything and I'm unable to use wreserver to stop anything. I'm geting a "malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 ["(end of string)"] at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/Config/JSON.pm line 135." error for some reason. Ideas?	05:47
@Haarg	possibly something wrong with your wre.conf file	05:48
elnino	yikes! it's size 0. That's bad.	05:52
elnino	happened 12 hours ago. Very bad.	05:53
elnino	which logfile tells you who logs in again? Auth.log isn't telling me much	05:56
elnino	what is the recommended ownership of the wre and webgui configuration files?	06:05
@preaction	root owned, apache readable	06:10
elnino	so... 701? did I do my math correct?	06:12
@Haarg	not executable	06:12
@Haarg	so 601 or 611	06:12
elnino	for al of wre and webgui configuration files?	06:13
@preaction	should be fine	06:14
@preaction	610 might work depending on the group ownership	06:15
@Haarg	they probably don't need to be readable by anyone but root actually	06:17
elnino	it's currenty root:root	06:17
elnino	and they are currently 644 which is -rw-r--r--	06:18
elnino	or am I doning my math wrong again..	06:18
@Haarg	no, that's correct	06:18
elnino	ok. so 644 root:root and some of them are webgui:webgui	06:19
@Haarg	sorry, i was mistaken. 644 or 604 is probably what you want.	06:19
@Haarg	if you make them all chgrp webgui, you could do 640	06:20
elnino	ok. well. I'm really confused then what could of happned. i disabled root to ssh. and I have the only account that can log in. so when I was logged in, I found that my drive was maxed. so I deleted all old log files and finally got that cleared up.	06:21
elnino	but then saw that my wre.conf was size zero.	06:22
@preaction	what version of Config::JSON are you using?	06:22
elnino	umm.. I have wre. 085	06:22
elnino	I may have installed JSON thru cpan because of the gotchas. but I don't know because I have several servers.	06:23
elnino	let me look if test environment gives me any thing.	06:23
@preaction	i would suspect that the WRE tried to change its config, the monitor perhaps, which destroyed the config and then when it tried to rewrite it failed somehow (no disk space maybe)	06:23
@preaction	Config::JSON is most likely culprit. it should do it more safely (try to write a temp config, then replace the old config only if the temp config is successfully written)	06:24
@Haarg	backup script alters the config file	06:24
@Haarg	so that seems the likely cause	06:25
elnino	I thought I disabled your back up script. I have my own. mybe the upgrade from 083 to 084 and 085 overwrote it.	06:26
@preaction	you can grab a backup WRE config from the wre's backup, if you still had that going	06:26
elnino	I did.	06:29
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elnino	currently everything is still shut down. I'm just trying to make sure everything is as it should be before I start up again. That was scary, so I'm hoping you're correct about the JSON thing.	06:30
elnino	I'n having a difficutl time determining the version of JSON. perldoc perllocal didn't list it.	06:31
@Haarg	perl -mJSON -e'print JSON->VERSION, "\n"'	06:31
@preaction	it's Config::JSON, the JSON module doesn't write files	06:32
elnino	2.05	06:32
@preaction	so like that, but Config::JSON instead	06:32
elnino	1.1.4	06:32
@preaction	you should have 1.14 i believe, the latest version. i fixed a bug relating to this, but i didn't anticipate the drive full issue	06:32
@preaction	so this might be a bug in there	06:33
elnino	I hope you mean 1.1.4	06:33
@preaction	yeah	06:33
elnino	I didn't either!	06:33
elnino	I was at 67%. I cleaned up and am now at 46% usage. So that's good. Glad I could be a test bed. Would you like mt ot open a bug report?	06:34
elnino	yep: http://search.cpan.org/~rizen/Config-JSON-1.1.4/lib/Config/JSON.pm 1.1.4 is the latest	06:35
@preaction	67%? your disk wasn't rull?	06:38
@preaction	er.. full	06:38
elnino	it was. but I cleane dit up.	06:38
@preaction	yeah you might want to open a report just to make sure we remember	06:39
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elnino	hmm. Trying to start up everything, but mod_perl fails. Looked at the log file and it says that /userSession is marked as crashed and should be repaired.	06:54
elnino	is webgui myISAM?	06:54
@preaction	yes	06:58
elnino	ok. thanks	06:59
elnino	hmmm. I'm getting a blank screen when trying to search webgui.org.	07:05
elnino	all is well now. Thanks for your help preaction and Haarg!	07:15
@Haarg	there's a bug report about the blank search thing. i'm trying to fix it now.	07:15
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+cap10morgan	Does the PerformanceProfiler still work?	08:32
+cap10morgan	i get crazy high (and large negative) values from it for durations	08:32
+cap10morgan	on 7.5.24	08:32
+cap10morgan	and it gobbles up memory like it's going out of style	08:33
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7842 /WebGUI/t/syntaxCheck.t: syntax check is faster, always runs, and tests for warnings as well	23:10
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7843 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): fixed: Shortcuts includes HTML head data twice	23:10
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7844 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Wobject/GalleryAlbum/permission.t: make GalleryAlbum test run, and fix it	23:10
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7845 /WebGUI/docs/ (changelog/7.x.x.txt upgrades/upgrade_7.6.0-7.6.1.pl): fixed: DataForm entry table isn't properly indexed	23:10
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7846 /WebGUI/ (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed: DataForm can't export fields containing newlines	23:10
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7847 /WebGUI/docs/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fixed: UserList templates use incorrect variable names	23:10
--- Day changed Mon Oct 06 2008
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7848 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm): fixed: International characters in password prevents login	00:14
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7849 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset.pm: fix i18n typo	00:14
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7850 /WebGUI/ (5 files in 3 dirs): fixed: SelectSlider form control is broken	00:14
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7851 /WebGUI/www/extras/adminConsole/adminConsole.css: change tab highlight color	00:14
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SynQ	hi there	02:38
SynQ	7.5.22-stable ?	02:38
SynQ	that seems old to me	02:39
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SynQ	hi there Radix	02:55
SynQ	working day started allready huh?	02:55
CIA-39	WebGUI: patspam * r7852 /branch/WebGUI_flux/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Refactored exceptions	03:11
+Radix-wrk	yup	03:13
+Radix-wrk	7.45am and I'm at work already	03:13
+Radix-wrk	get to leave early in return tho ;)	03:13
SynQ	early :)	03:14
+Radix-wrk	How's things?	03:14
SynQ	busy	03:25
SynQ	very busy	03:25
SynQ	right now i'm going to be	03:25
SynQ	bed	03:25
SynQ	I just finished a midnight database migration	03:25
SynQ	later	03:29
+Radix-wrk	nite :)	03:49
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CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7853 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): fixed: testEnvironment.pl can't find WebGUI modules after installing a prerequisite	11:18
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7854 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Auth/WebGUI.pm): fixed: International characters in password prevents login	11:18
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7855 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (5 files in 3 dirs): fixed: SelectSlider form control is broken	11:18
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7856 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (sbin/testEnvironment.pl docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: testEnvironment.pl can't find WebGUI modules after installing a prerequisite	11:18
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CIA-39	WebGUI: yung * r7857 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed select slider and key/value pair support for list type form elements in Thingy	11:56
CIA-39	WebGUI: yung * r7858 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed select slider and key/value pair support for list type form elements in Thingy	11:56
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SDuensin	Greetings.	16:15
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CIA-39	WebGUI: yung * r7859 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed: Combo box does not show possible values in Thingy	16:45
CIA-39	WebGUI: yung * r7860 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Thingy.pm): fixed: Combo box does not show possible values in Thingy	16:46
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zylopfa	Greetings all	18:49
zylopfa	I am making a paymentdriver for the danish PBS (joint payment provider for danish banks)	18:50
dionak	wasn't there a newsletter feature in webgui? not seeing it on demo...	18:55
zylopfa	dionak, you have to enable it in the config file for the site, its not enabled by default	18:57
@rizen	it's enabled by default on beta.webgui.org	18:58
dionak	ah..guess it's not enabled for the webgui demo	18:58
@rizen	and is defaultly enabled on all new 7.6 sites	18:59
zylopfa	Ahh ok	18:59
zylopfa	rizen, has there been worked on the newsletter asset?	18:59
@rizen	nope, i just noticed that it wasn't in there when i was redoing the new content menu, so i added it	19:00
zylopfa	Ahh ok	19:00
zylopfa	Anyway i am making a new PaymentDriver	19:00
zylopfa	I will share it with the community when i am done	19:00
@rizen	dionak: the newsletter asset is only useful if you enable content profiling	19:00
dionak	i like the warning telling me to enable content profiling	19:01
dionak	very helpful	19:01
zylopfa	yeah	19:01
dionak	zylopfa, i'm sure the other dutch users will appreciate it.	19:02
zylopfa	Danish ;D	19:02
zylopfa	If the paypal driver is not made yet I will also make that	19:02
@rizen	zylopfa: very cool	19:02
dionak	haha, yea. not that we don't appreciate it.	19:02
zylopfa	Its a good exercice in webgui api	19:02
dionak	that would be great!	19:02
zylopfa	I realy love the pluggability of webgui	19:03
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BartJol	Someone already has done something with paypall	19:04
BartJol	Ibelieve	19:04
BartJol	I think Jori	19:04
BartJol	Joeri	19:04
zylopfa	yeah i think so too	19:05
zylopfa	was announced a while ago that it would be in 7.6	19:05
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dionak	when is 7.6 due again?	19:05
+perlDreamer	7.6 is stable in January	19:05
dionak	cool, that's not far off	19:06
zylopfa	I wonder when payment gateways will be cheap to use	19:06
BartJol	mm, it's not in the site i expected ir to be	19:07
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dionak	btw, rizen. when developers add new columns to the database, when do the upgrade scripts get updated with that info?	19:09
@preaction	dionak, the previousVersion.sql and create.sql are created as part of the build process	19:12
@Haarg	all database changes are done through upgrade scripts	19:13
dionak	i ask because i recently updated, deleted my test local db and then recreated and was still missing columns. i'll try it again this evening.	19:13
@perlmonkey2	Should you ever have a Post with the same idea as its Thread?	19:13
@perlmonkey2	s/idea/id/	19:14
zylopfa	I bought the developers guide	19:14
zylopfa	from plainblack	19:14
@Haarg	the thread is a post, so yes	19:14
@perlmonkey2	that makes my head hurt.	19:15
zylopfa	The thread is the parent?	19:15
@preaction	post is the parent class of thread, yes	19:15
@perlmonkey2	preaction: then there is nothing really wrong with the first link we were talking about? And it also can't be moved in the Thread?	19:16
@preaction	no, there's nothing really wrong. but no it can't be moved (since the Thread post is always first)	19:17
@perlmonkey2	The PostThread will always be the first Post in its Thread?	19:17
@preaction	yes	19:17
@perlmonkey2	preaction: so in order to get rid of the first post in that thread, I'll need to create a new thread of the second post then move all the other posts to it and then have it replace the original postthread.	19:21
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@preaction	you should be able to just add a new post with the Thread post's contents and then remove the thread post's contents	19:21
Lisette	how to do an utility that add products?	19:22
@preaction	Lisette, Products are just assets, so the same way you'd add an asset	19:22
Lisette	thanks	19:23
zylopfa	I like the new payment system	19:26
+perlDreamer	Lisette, you can look at /data/WebGUI/t/Asset/Sku/Product.t for examples.	19:28
@rizen	perlmonkey2: no, if you get rid of the threads, all posts after it follow, period	19:30
@rizen	perlmonkey2: in other words, don't jury rig something to generate some post as a thread that wasn't originally a thread	19:31
@perlmonkey2	rizen: I'm just going t take the second post, move its info to the first, then delete the second.	19:34
@rizen	why are you doing this at all?	19:34
@perlmonkey2	they dont' want the first post anymore	19:35
@perlmonkey2	not for thta 'section'	19:35
@rizen	who is 'they'?	19:35
zylopfa	Cant it be done altering the template?	19:36
zylopfa	I need to ask a question. I am making this payment driver and i was wondering if i could locate a transaction id, based on the cartId	19:42
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miloidrr	Hi, perldreamer how are you?. I have a question about a cs. I'm checking the WebGUI Versions 7.4.40 and 7.5.23 but i don't found the karma options. Do you know something about this?	19:45
miloidrr	In The new version it not appear	19:46
BartJol	miloidrr: maybe a stupid question, but you did enable it in the sttings?	19:50
miloidrr	In the world there is not any stupid question, but tks for your help bartjol	19:54
BartJol	so you did enable it?	19:54
miloidrr	Yes	19:54
BartJol	because in 7.5.24 I do see the options	19:54
miloidrr	yes i can see it now	19:54
miloidrr	It was a mental lapse	19:55
BartJol	ah	19:55
BartJol	:)	19:55
@rizen	zylopfa: no, cuz there is no transaction id yet at that point	19:55
miloidrr	:)	19:56
zylopfa	rizen, i thought as much. I am making something wrong then	19:58
zylopfa	I am creating a payment driver, where it only should generate a pay button	19:58
zylopfa	and with that i need to send an identifier for the payment	19:59
zylopfa	so i can find the order when the paymentgateway calls back my callback function	19:59
zylopfa	rizen, can you find a transaction based on a cartid?	19:59
zylopfa	It goes like this: user presses pay button --> user enter details at paymentgw(carddetails) --> gets redirected to reciept at my place	20:00
zylopfa	-> the reciept finishes the transaction	20:00
zylopfa	But the gateway then post callback to my site	20:01
zylopfa	and from that i need to find the order	20:01
@rizen	there still is no tranaction id at that point	20:01
@rizen	because you're doing an off-site transaction	20:01
zylopfa	maybe i do it in the wrong order	20:01
zylopfa	yeah i am	20:02
@rizen	everything you said was correct, but...	20:02
@rizen	hold on...looking something up	20:02
@rizen	ok...	20:04
@rizen	your postback method	20:04
@rizen	needs to call processTransaction	20:05
@rizen	which creates the transaction	20:05
@rizen	from the cart	20:05
zylopfa	but rizen	20:05
zylopfa	Its the payment gateway that call the method	20:05
zylopfa	and he don't know the details	20:05
zylopfa	I mean the card/cookiedetails/users session is lost	20:06
zylopfa	so it wont be able to know what to process	20:06
@rizen	i understand that	20:06
zylopfa	unless it has some kind of identifier	20:06
@rizen	just listen	20:06
zylopfa	ok	20:06
@rizen	create a method called www_postBackFromProvider	20:06
@rizen	the provider passes back the cart id	20:07
@rizen	which you sent to it	20:07
zylopfa	aaah ofc	20:07
zylopfa	THANKS A LOT!!	20:07
zylopfa	lol i did it differnet	20:07
zylopfa	and then i put: $cart->getId(); in the push-button-form!	20:08
@rizen	right	20:08
zylopfa	You are awesome	20:08
@rizen	and then in www_postBackFromProvider you instanciate the cart	20:08
@rizen	using the cart id	20:08
zylopfa	and then create transaction	20:09
@rizen	yup	20:09
zylopfa	can i ask some last thing	20:09
@rizen	nope	20:09
zylopfa	ok	20:09
@rizen	i don't answer questions when you ask whether you can ask them	20:09
@rizen	=)	20:09
@rizen	of course if you just ask, then i'll answer	20:09
@rizen	=)	20:09
zylopfa	ok, the user get a "confitmation screen" from my site (he gets redirected to it from gw)	20:10
zylopfa	and in "parallel" the callback script gets called	20:10
BartJol	and you can recognise him when he says "shut up and listen, I'm god"	20:10
zylopfa	Then i ask: should i pr. default say to user "your order has been completed"	20:10
BartJol	sorry...	20:10
zylopfa	Because i cant expect the callback to be called first	20:11
zylopfa	depends on the speed of the payment gateway	20:11
@rizen	right	20:11
@rizen	you probably should say	20:11
@rizen	"we're processing your order"	20:11
zylopfa	yeah, here are your preliminary details	20:11
@rizen	and "when your order has been processed, it will show up in <link>your account history</link>"	20:12
zylopfa	and then list the "invoice"	20:12
zylopfa	yeah good idea	20:12
@rizen	and link them to the my transactions page	20:12
zylopfa	ahh yeah	20:12
zylopfa	This is so awesome	20:12
@rizen	another thing we could do for 7.6	20:13
@rizen	is allow you to create the transaction in advance	20:14
@rizen	and pass it in to processTransaction()	20:14
@rizen	so that you could use the transaction id	20:14
@rizen	instead of the cart	20:14
zylopfa	ahh yeah, could be a good idea	20:14
zylopfa	and then flag it "partial" or something	20:14
zylopfa	rizen, maybe if the payment-gw is smart, it wont redirect the user to me before it posted to callback?	20:14
@rizen	who knows though...can't rely on systems you don't control	20:15
zylopfa	indeed	20:15
zylopfa	better make it robust	20:15
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zylopfa	Whats wrong with the following? :	20:46
zylopfa	my $fields = $session->form->paramsHashRef();	20:46
zylopfa	my $cartid = %$fields{'reference'};	20:46
+perlDreamer	Haarg, that new syntax check test is fast!	20:46
@preaction	zylopfa, syntax error. my $cartid = $fields->{'reference'}	20:46
@preaction	zylopfa, see perldoc perldsc or perldoc perlref for more info	20:47
zylopfa	but dont it need to be dereferenced?	20:47
@preaction	-> is the deref operator	20:47
zylopfa	i need to learn hashes	20:47
zylopfa	and programming	20:47
@Haarg	it's nice to have it run faster. might convince people to use it more.	20:48
zylopfa	I love the perl developer book, that it start with testing	20:48
zylopfa	that shows the webgui is very onto good coding	20:49
zylopfa	the webgui team	20:49
zylopfa	Haarg, i also noticed that when you choose what group will get the notification of a new sale on the site	20:50
zylopfa	and you choose a group like "ShopKeepers"	20:51
zylopfa	then the Admin group will still get an email	20:51
zylopfa	is this a feature?	20:51
@Haarg	yes, the admin group is a member of all groups by default	20:51
zylopfa	ahh ok	20:52
zylopfa	Makes no sense to make more than 1 admin	20:53
zylopfa	you can make sub-admins or helpers and so	20:53
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miloidrr	PerlDreamer hi, i have a question about the karma in the gallery of the webgui version 7.5.23	20:59
+perlDreamer	okay, I don't know much about the gallery, but please ask	20:59
@preaction	i wasn't sure karma was part of the Gallery	21:00
+perlDreamer	preaction, maybe we should ask the guy who wrote it	21:00
@preaction	that jerk? i'm not so sure about that	21:00
+perlDreamer	Hey, he's not a jerk. He's just kind of touchy	21:00
@preaction	but he doesn't have to be so MEAN	21:00
+perlDreamer	Indeed.	21:01
miloidrr	I cant see this option in this	21:01
@preaction	which option?	21:01
zylopfa	perlDreamer, if there are any one who want additional payment driver, i shall make them on request	21:01
+perlDreamer	zylopfa, I'd read through the boards on webgui.org	21:02
zylopfa	roger that	21:02
+perlDreamer	I think someone requested a driver or too	21:02
+perlDreamer	also, check RFEs	21:02
miloidrr	Karma option in the asset gallery	21:02
zylopfa	Sweet	21:02
@preaction	miloidrr, there isn't any	21:02
BartJol	miloidrr: maybe if you want karma in a gellery, you can use the cs with the photo gallery template	21:04
miloidrr	This option isn't enable to the asset gallery?	21:04
@preaction	miloidrr, there is no karma in the gallery asset, no.	21:05
miloidrr	:-(	21:05
zylopfa	I have a question again :D	21:08
zylopfa	In the payment PayDriver i make, the callback gets called from the paymentGW	21:08
zylopfa	and i was wondering if the parameters then	21:08
zylopfa	sub www_callback {	21:08
zylopfa	my $self = shift;	21:08
zylopfa	my $session = $self->session;	21:08
zylopfa	The $self is wrong isn't it? cause its not been instantiated?	21:09
zylopfa	so it only gets the $session passed in right?	21:09
@preaction	where is this callback being called from? are you sure it's not instantiated?	21:09
zylopfa	Its from the paymentgateqay	21:10
zylopfa	they call this method through a POST	21:10
@preaction	right, but follow the entire flow of the request	21:10
zylopfa	yeah the callback is called from the PayDriver	21:10
zylopfa	my $cart = WebGUI::Shop::Cart->new($session,"$cartid");	21:10
zylopfa	my $paydriver = WebGUI::Shop::PayDriver->new($session,"$driverid");	21:10
zylopfa	my $transaction = WebGUI::Shop::Transaction->create({ cart=>$cart, paymentMethod=>$paydriver});	21:10
zylopfa	gives me errors that something is an unblessed reference	21:11
@preaction	zylopfa, stop pasting to the channel	21:11
zylopfa	sorry Sir	21:11
@preaction	and what is the unblessed reference?	21:11
zylopfa	thr transaction	21:11
zylopfa	the	21:12
@preaction	you mean the line that's creating the transaction?	21:12
zylopfa	yeah	21:13
@preaction	so then $cart or $paydriver are undefined	21:13
zylopfa	I will debug that then thanks	21:13
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elnino	hi! This last upgrade that I did that converted non-utf8 to utf-8 did quite the number on our site. We have a LOT of "boxes" and "question marks" where there were copywrite and registered marks. Is there a way to do a global fix for these? we're looking at 200-300 pages we need to fix.	21:19
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7861 /branch/WebGUI_7.5/ (lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt): fixed: Cross site scripting issue on operation pages	21:24
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7862 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm): fixed: Cross site scripting issue on operation pages	21:24
CIA-39	WebGUI: graham * r7863 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Search.pm): fixed: Search asset shows blank page after searching	21:24
dionak	the most direct route would probably be a script to convert the characters to utf-8 in the db	21:25
dionak	is there a way to upload a compressed archive of images to webgui media and have webgui uncompress the archive?	21:27
elnino	Apparantly that is what the upgrade did.	21:27
elnino	there is an asset call ziparchive - that may wwork for you.	21:27
elnino	although it doesn't put it in the media folder structure.	21:28
elnino	hmm, but it would if youwere in the media folder in the asset manager.	21:28
elnino	so - anyway, the upgrade script is what converted all the data into utf-8. the copyright and registered markes were not utf-8 before. but they are now, and they are displayed as boxes or question marks depending on the browser used. So apparantly not all utf-8 characters are supported in html? So maybe I need to do something in my page layout to display utf-8?	21:31
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dionak	is your charset in the meta tags utf-8? not sure if this will help, just curious	21:36
+perlDreamer	elnino, it would unpack the zip file in a storage location, outside of the asset hierarchy	21:36
dionak	so a content manager couldn't use this to upload an archive of images right?	21:38
+perlDreamer	Asset::File::Images, no. jpegs and gifs, yes	21:38
dionak	looks like this asset might be intended to display the contents of the archive on a particular page	21:38
+perlDreamer	yes, exactly	21:38
+perlDreamer	Maybe in addition to FilePile, we need CompressedPile	21:39
+perlDreamer	using Archive::Any to unpack and then deferring to FilePile type asset creation	21:39
elnino	perlDreamer, dionak - that's a bummer. Sorry to mislead.	21:46
dionak	np	21:46
elnino	dionak - yep. My meta tags is set to utf-8 currently.	21:46
elnino	So I don't know what else I need to do to make these characters display correctly. If I look at the source of the html, the registered and copyright symbols show up correctly, just not in the browser.	21:47
dionak	my last guess is that the browser doesn't handle utf-8 characters correctly. Is it IE?	21:47
@preaction	no, the issue was that iso-8897-1 (latin-1) chars were being saved to a utf-8 field. those chars need to be replaced with © ® and the other HTML entities for those characters	21:48
elnino	preaction - so I'm confused, that if the update converted iso-8897-1 to utf-8, why they don't appear correctly? what were they converted to?	21:50
dionak	so is it correct in thinking that IE doesn't handle &#169? Haven't tested. I usually use &copy	21:50
elnino	I'm pretty sure it's ie and firefox. let me double check...	21:51
elnino	yep. firefox doesn't display it either. nor does safari	21:53
elnino	In the code it doesn't show © either, it literally shows a registered mark. I'm using notepad to view it. So it got converted to something weird, not © and not ®	21:53
elnino	http://www.comtrol.com/comtrol-news/press-releases/comtrollodginglinkandrsi - is the page.	21:53
@preaction	elnino, because it was latin-1 being stored in utf-8 fields. we converted to binary, and then converted back, and the latin-1 codepoints don't correspond to utf-8 codepoints (except for the most basic characters)	21:54
@preaction	worse, it was probably cp-whatever, the windows encoding	21:54
dionak	so it's a bug	21:54
@preaction	no, it's not	21:54
elnino	ah. it was windows. I just didn't know how it couldn't display if it was correctly converted to utf-8.	21:54
@preaction	notepad is using the encoding that it was made with, Latin-1	21:55
elnino	but it seems that it wasn't converted correctly.	21:55
@preaction	Latin-1 and utf-8 have overlap	21:55
elnino	well, if I write a sql statement or something to convert x to © what is x?	21:56
@preaction	x is the character, copied and pasted, hopefully. it might work	21:56
@preaction	there are a lot of things that do auto-conversion, perl is one of them. so it may work, it may not	21:57
elnino	and it appears that it only occured in title and menutitle fields, correct? the article assests seem to be still ok - from what we've seen so far.	21:57
elnino	I gues I don't understand what I'm converting. utf-8 to utf-8?	21:58
elnino	or is it bcause not all of utf-8 is presentable via html?	21:58
@preaction	no, you're converting iso-8897 to an HTML entity	21:58
elnino	I already did the upgrade.. it's been converted.	21:58
elnino	Am I confused?	21:59
elnino	this is all an enigma to me.	22:00
@preaction	character encoding is hell	22:00
dionak	so what was the character before it got mangled?	22:01
elnino	I'm feeling the heat	22:01
@preaction	the only comfort i can offer: copy/paste the character from one terminal window (the mysql output) to another (your fixer script), and change it to the proper HTML entity	22:01
elnino	the character that was there before the upgrade was something most likely copied from MSWord.	22:02
elnino	after the upgrade it was supposedly converted to utf-8	22:03
dionak	oh, joy	22:03
elnino	which now displays as a box or ? depending on browser.	22:03
@preaction	the columns were converted, not necessarily the data	22:03
elnino	In the source code using notepad, it shows upas a registered mark or copyright.	22:03
elnino	preaction - OH! so the data may still be whatever word is.	22:04
@preaction	elnino, since the column was utf-8, but the data could've been anything (latin1 windows russian)	22:04
@preaction	our columns were correct, but we weren't forcing anything for the data	22:04
@preaction	that's changed	22:04
elnino	if utf-8 is an encoding, what is latin1, widows, and russian called? are they subsets? or are they encoding too?	22:06
@preaction	they're different encodings	22:06
elnino	and msword uses iso-8897 encoding?	22:07
@preaction	msword uses whatever you have set, but most likely cp-13.. something. there's a windows-specific encoding that shares a lot with latin-1	22:08
elnino	so how do I explain what happened to the the data during the upgrade to marketing without scaring them?	22:08
elnino	AND hopefully this type of thing won't happen again...	22:08
@preaction	webgui fixed character encoding and translation issues, but some data was unable to be fixed (since we did not know what kind of characters they were).	22:09
@preaction	and as far as i know, this issue is fixed. we've got two major groups using the i18n and character encoding features of webgui, and they've had time to test	22:10
elnino	oh. That reminds me, I was going to take a look at my translated pages. I hope they aren't boxes.	22:11
elnino	crud. about half of them made it thru.	22:12
@preaction	graham may know how to fix those	22:14
@preaction	or you might be able to use Word to change the encoding from whatever it was to utf-8	22:14
elnino	I don't have word. =( I have open office. I refuse to use or install word.	22:16
elnino	So, I put those pages up by coping from notepad. Are you saying notepad can handle any encoding? Could Ijust repaste them from notepad?	22:17
@preaction	make the marketing team do it then? they need to know this in order to prevent it from happening again	22:17
@preaction	you might be able to, but you'd need to make sure it was utf-8 before you pasted	22:17
@preaction	i don't even know that Word can do this	22:17
@preaction	it might just make it into gibberish	22:17
elnino	so... to put a registered mark on a page. do they type ® in the wysiwyg editor? or do they need to go to the html source?	22:18
elnino	I do believe they need to now type © and ® in the menutitle and title from now on, right?	22:19
@preaction	there's a button to "Insert HTML Entity"	22:19
@preaction	i don't know	22:19
elnino	oh. that works. ok. Let me play around wth this more.	22:19
@preaction	in the HTML editor, the ? symbol	22:19
@Haarg	if it doesn't work to copy and paste a ® symbol into the rich editor, what software are they using?	22:20
elnino	Haarg - they are copyingn straight from word to the wysiwyg editor	22:21
elnino	- to the best of my knowledge. They may be coping from quark	22:23
elnino	oh. interesting. I went tot hat page. clicked edit. it all appeared "correctly", so I made no modifications. Clicked save. and the marks have been "converted" to html entities.	22:26
elnino	it didn't know what to do with the special "apostrophe" though.	22:26
elnino	So if there is a way to write a script to "resave" every page in our site. That should do it. because apparantly somewhere between editing and saving it converts them correctly to entities.	22:29
@preaction	it probably has to be saved from the front-end though	22:30
@preaction	not even WWW::Mech could do it, since it doesn't do JS	22:30
elnino	bummer.	22:32
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zylopfa	DAmn i am still having problems coding this payment driver :(	22:53
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@perlmonkey2	FYI for all you greenies. Part of the bail out included a $7500 federal rebate for plug-in hybrids.	23:25
@preaction	yay chevy volt!	23:27
zylopfa	:D	23:28
zylopfa	Anyone familiar with the PayDriver system in webgui?	23:28
zylopfa	I am trying to make a cart object from a cartid	23:28
zylopfa	but whenever i use any methods from the new object i get	23:29
zylopfa	WebGUI::Shop::Address:166 - Address not in this address book.	23:29
zylopfa	I think its because the system thinks the user (Visitor) doesn't own the address	23:29
zylopfa	I need to use this user cause its the CallBack from the paymentgateway	23:30
zylopfa	rizen, are you here ;D	23:31
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+perlDreamer	zylopfa, address books are not user owned, they are owned by a "session".	23:36
zylopfa	i just dont understand this	23:37
zylopfa	it my payment driver and not all is done in the same session	23:37
zylopfa	because its calling a website to do the creditcard checks	23:38
zylopfa	and then it calls back	23:38
+perlDreamer	if you do it as visitor, and it creates a different session, you won't get the expected results	23:38
zylopfa	But i have problems instantiating the Cart, in the callback	23:38
zylopfa	but perlDreamer what to do :(	23:38
+cap10morgan	is it possible to have both automatic ldap registration and anonymous registration at the same time?	23:38
+perlDreamer	Can you have the remote website pass back the sessionId?	23:39
+perlDreamer	that sounds dangerous, too	23:39
+perlDreamer	for session hijacking	23:39
zylopfa	perlDreamer, yeah i can	23:39
zylopfa	but i dont understand	23:39
zylopfa	why i cant create an instance of the Cart	23:39
zylopfa	and use it regardless	23:39
zylopfa	my $fields = $session->form->paramsHashRef();	23:40
zylopfa	my $cartid = $fields->{'reference'};	23:40
zylopfa	my $driverid = $fields->{'paymentGatewayId'};	23:40
zylopfa	my $cart = WebGUI::Shop::Cart->new($session,"$cartid");	23:40
zylopfa		23:40
zylopfa	that is what i do in the eecallback	23:40
zylopfa	in the www_callback	23:40
zylopfa	but when i access the methods in $cart, i get address book errors	23:41
zylopfa	I mean if i make the object from the cart id, shouldnt it reflect the object with the details from the cartId?	23:41