WebGUI irc logs from: 2010-04.log

--- Log opened Thu Apr 01 00:00:55 2010
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kimd	Hey preaction, back at work? (Or still relaxing at home :)	00:19
@preaction	back at work, no rest for the weary around here	00:20
kimd	Good. Received my pull request?	00:23
@preaction	yes	00:27
kimd	Good. That's all I wanted to know. Back to work now! (Can you hear the whip?)	00:28
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kimd	Servus KlausH, wie geht's wie steht's?	01:33
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@Haarg	http://www.anxietyapp.com/ finally found a todo tracker i like. lightweight and uses ical on the back end.	03:21
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r195218c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): when purging from system trash, return to system trash. Fixes bug #11509. - http://bit.ly/bMMspb	03:24
@preaction	oh, god, yes, thank you Haarg	03:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r8669097 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/AssetTrash.pm): when purging from system trash, return to system trash. Fixes bug #11509. - http://bit.ly/d2Z2ro	03:24
+perlDreamer	scratch variables need to die	03:36
+perlDreamer	forever	03:36
@preaction	why? i think they serve a useful purpose	03:38
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11510	03:41
+perlDreamer	this is one example of their badness	03:41
+perlDreamer	just one example, I should say	03:41
+perlDreamer	they need to have expiration times on them	03:41
+perlDreamer	because now I get to write an upgrade sub which tries to fix the mess that has been created	03:41
@Haarg	i think that's more an example of the cs sorting code being dumb	03:41
@Haarg	the fact that you have to give it a sql column name is rather horrible	03:42
@Haarg	or a table.column name	03:42
+perlDreamer	I can fix that	03:43
@Haarg	i tried to fix that at one point when i found the sql injection problem it used to have, but was overruled	03:44
@preaction	uh.. sql injection?	03:45
@preaction	oh	03:45
@preaction	right, that	03:45
@Haarg	it used to just stick the form param into the order by clause	03:45
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@Haarg	preaction, patspam, your thoughts on wgdev and webgui 8? it's going to be hard to keep it entirely compatible. so i can either fork it entirely, or try for having it compatible.	04:31
@Haarg	making the commands themselves compatible would be possible in a lot of cases, so those could maybe list their compatible versions	04:32
@Haarg	but making the core work across versions is going to be annoying so i would possible need to add a command line option to note that you are using webgui 8, have a different executable, or try to do something else that i'm not sure about.	04:33
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:32
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mech422	morning all - quick question - on the user profile page, I want to add a field whose default value is based on the users email address - how do I fill in the default value box on the form to pass the email address to my code ?	17:41
mech422	(is it something like WebGui::foo::bar($email) )	17:42
+bartjol	in a form field, can't you set a default value, this should be the tmpl_var containg the users e-mail	17:43
+bartjol	?	17:43
+bartjol	or are you making new code	17:44
+bartjol	I was thinking html	17:44
mech422	I was trying to do it thru-the-web using's webgui's built in profile field editor ... I suppose I could hack up the profile page template if needed, but then I'd need to call my custom code from a template ?	17:45
+bartjol	ah	17:45
mech422	I believe webgui does something similiar for translating the labels... I'd have to look again. I just wasnt sure what the email field was called	17:46
+bartjol	well, you can get far with a macro I suppose, which also can have it's own template	17:46
mech422	WebGUI::International::get(314,"WebGUI");	17:48
mech422	thats how labels get translated	17:49
mech422	I need WebGUI::foo::bar($user->email); or some such	17:49
+bartjol	$user->get("email") I think	17:52
+bartjol	http://www.plainblack.com/downloads/builds/7.8.16-stable/api/User.html	17:52
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+MrHairgrease	tavisto: you should really brush up your Dutch	17:53
@tavisto	no way, my Google Dutch is great	17:54
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+MrHairgrease	well unless you think I'm beer, something is not working out exactly as planned I guess.	17:55
+bartjol	at the most, you are a beer container, but not beer	17:56
@tavisto	yeah I do think you are mostly beer	17:56
+patspam	do we get to deprecate IE6 in wg8?	17:57
@tavisto	I thought the goal of every Dutchmen was to eventually become 100% beer.. Blood is for wimps	17:57
+perlDreamer	it is a well known fact that MrHairgrease is 70% water	17:57
+bartjol	patspam: I hope so, but I don't believe it is the roadmap	17:57
+MrHairgrease	hmm, I dunno... some skin would be handy I guess	17:57
+perlDreamer	with several trace elements, alcohol, hops, carbonation	17:58
+MrHairgrease	hehe	17:58
+perlDreamer	patspam: YES!	17:58
+bartjol	whoohoo!	17:58
+perlDreamer	IE6 dies a horrible, bloody death in wG8	17:58
+perlDreamer	or so I've been told	17:58
* MrHairgrease has deprecated ie6 long ago		17:58
+patspam	woooh!	17:58
+MrHairgrease	awesome	17:58
+patspam	I was wondering because Doug just mentioned IE6 in an email to the template working group	17:58
+bartjol	too bad IE 5 will still be supported	17:59
+perlDreamer	those templates are not for wg8, but for wg 7, so they must work in 1994 browsers	17:59
+MrHairgrease	only 1994?	18:00
+MrHairgrease	there are millions of browsers out there	18:00
+MrHairgrease	it might be a good idea to support a few more than 1994	18:00
mech422	morning all - quick question - on the user profile page, I want to add a field whose default value is based on the users email address - how do I fill in the default value box on the form to pass the email address to my code ? labels get translated via WebGUI::International::get(314,"WebGUI"); can I do a WebGUI::foo::bar($user->email); or something ?	18:00
+perlDreamer	mech422, we only allow a limited subset of things that get evaluated as perl code	18:02
+perlDreamer	it should have used macros instead, but there you go	18:02
@Haarg	the WebGUI::International::get(314,"WebGUI") form isn't actually even evaluated	18:03
mech422	perlDreamer: is that a "you can't get here from there" ?	18:03
@Haarg	it is matched with a regex	18:03
+perlDreamer	'fraid so, dude	18:03
mech422	kk - thanks	18:03
mech422	I'll have to hack up the profile template then	18:03
+MrHairgrease	mech422, afaik you can use macros inlabels	18:04
mech422	or can I 'short circuit' it by creating a wrapper function that looks up the user's email and passes it to bar() ? WebGUI::foo::barWrapper() ?	18:05
@tavisto	noooooo! I still lovvvvvvvvvve IE6!	18:05
@tavisto	don't kill it!	18:05
@Haarg	patspam, perlDreamer, http://gist.github.com/351903	18:05
+MrHairgrease	mech422: why not use ^User(email)	18:05
mech422	MrHairgrease: I'm trying to use it in the default value box - basically trying to get the default value for one field to depend on another field	18:05
+MrHairgrease	oh	18:06
+MrHairgrease	my mistake	18:06
+MrHairgrease	that's not gonna work	18:06
+patspam	Haarg: I reckon fork it and make the wg7 branch maintenance only	18:06
mech422	thanks though - didn't know you could use macros in hte label :-)	18:06
+perlDreamer	can't use macros in profile fields	18:06
+patspam	I don't reckon it's worth the overhead of trying to keep it compatible	18:07
* perlDreamer has to agree with patspam		18:07
mech422	perlDreamer: would barWrapper() method work, or is getting my code access to wg values more work then hacking the template ?	18:08
@Haarg	that's kind of how i was leaning as well. i may try to keep the command api the same between the two so if the command is written correctly it could work with either.	18:09
+perlDreamer	mech422, I don't understand the question, and it would be much more work than hacking the template	18:09
+MrHairgrease	mech422: your best bet might be adding some js to the template that sets the fields to whatever value	18:09
+patspam	yeah, obviously only change the command API if there's a compelling reason to do it	18:09
mech422	Hmm... ok - thanks guys - I'm gonna go percolate	18:10
@Haarg	i have my WebGUI::Paths changes basically complete but they will break wgdev pretty badly, which is why i've held off merging them	18:11
+perlDreamer	maybe we could have wgd, and wg8d	18:11
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mech422	if I have a custom WebGUI::foo module, is there something I can require to get access to the wg user info ? require WebGUI::User or something ?	18:33
+bartjol	use WebGUI::User;	18:33
+MrHairgrease	you get the current user via $session->user	18:33
+MrHairgrease	otherwise do $user = WebGU::User->new( $session, $userId );	18:34
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+patspam	pre tags are evil	18:53
+patspam	even with fluid layout they will look horrible if a single line is long enough	18:54
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@Haarg	overflow helps but it's not always perfect	19:04
+perlDreamer	looking at it with hindsight, the editing controls for the tickets should be on the left	19:06
+perlDreamer	maybe we could look at stripping out PRE tags, or limiting their width	19:07
+perlDreamer	eh, maybe, maybe not	19:07
+perlDreamer	I think I'm just being old and grumpy again	19:07
+perlDreamer	I'll go to the gym, and have the grumpiness beaten out of me	19:08
+perlDreamer	nothing like doing 150 pushups to change your attitude	19:08
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+perlDreamer	man, the OSCON schedule this year reads like an advertisement for Django	20:45
@preaction	eh, Django is the new baby	20:45
@preaction	last year it was Drupal, no?	20:45
@preaction	and I do like a lot of Django's style, even though it's exactly like Catalyst: there's no real app to speak of, it's just a framework	20:46
@tavisto	Hey all, just wanted to let you know that all WebGUI Guides are on sale today only! 10% off @ Lulu.com. Details available @ http://www.plainblack.com/news/news/all-webgui-books-10-off---april-1st-only	20:52
clifmo	yay, hook me up tavisto	21:11
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@tavisto	Yeah, that's a pretty good deal Clifmo. I've never seen Lulu do discounts system-wide before.	21:12
clifmo	Good to know those resources exist, doubt I could get the purchase through today	21:14
@tavisto	The Primer Guide is free so you'll definitely want to download that one. Just a basics guide to get people started with the software	21:14
+perlDreamer	yes, FilePump should be used with the new styles	22:20
+perlDreamer	especially after it's more tightly integrated with the template	22:20
@preaction	and attachments	22:20
+perlDreamer	Doesn't FilePump do everything that Attachments can do, and more?	22:21
+perlDreamer	FilePump is less granular	22:21
@preaction	filepump bundles should show up as attachments to a template	22:21
+perlDreamer	it'd be nice if you could take an existing set of JS and CSS attachments to a template, and say, "Make this a bundle for me"	22:22
+perlDreamer	attachments are nice because you don't have to add the macro to you template	22:23
+perlDreamer	of course, if you knew it was a style template	22:23
+perlDreamer	and it had a FilePump bundle	22:23
+perlDreamer	you could automatically insert the CSS to the top, and the JS to the bottom	22:23
+perlDreamer	you wouldn't have as much control as with the macro for placement	22:24
+perlDreamer	hoy, patspam!	22:24
+patspam	hola	22:24
+perlDreamer	back log and bit and tell me if the idea for style templates handling attached FilePump bundles is any good or not	22:25
@preaction	perlDreamer: FilePump bundles should be able to be attached to the template like normal Attachments can	22:26
@preaction	any template at all	22:26
+perlDreamer	sure, but for a style template, you might be able to avoid the (very small) hassle of sticking in the FilePump macro	22:26
+perlDreamer	since it's attached, you don't need to know the name for the macro	22:26
+perlDreamer	it's the style template, so you know where the head and body/bottom are	22:27
@preaction	i don't understand. if there was a FilePump area when you edit a template where you could check the box of any FilePump bundles, there's no need for the macro anymore at all, is this what we're both saying?	22:28
+perlDreamer	no	22:28
+perlDreamer	maybe	22:28
+perlDreamer	if you made a FilePump bundle for an Article template	22:29
+perlDreamer	you'd really like the CSS link to be up in the HEAD block	22:29
+perlDreamer	that's one thing that FilePump wouldn't allow you to do as it stands now	22:29
@preaction	yes, which is where Templates being aware of FilePump comes in	22:29
@preaction	you say "Hello Article template, Include this FilePump bundle!"	22:29
@preaction	"And this one too while you're at it!"	22:30
@preaction	"Oh, and also add this attachment why not"	22:30
+perlDreamer	and the Template is smart enough to put the CSS into the head_tags	22:30
+perlDreamer	and the JS into a body_tag, which is wisely put at the bottom of the style template	22:30
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+perlDreamer	now I think we're saying the same thing	22:31
@preaction	well, the JS would have to be set for "Top" or "Bottom"	22:31
+perlDreamer	FilePump is a "bottom JS" Nazi	22:31
+perlDreamer	well, by intent, not required by design or implementation	22:31
@preaction	it'd have to be changed, it should be changed. not all JS works at the bottom.	22:32
+perlDreamer	non-bottom JS could just be an attachment	22:33
@preaction	but why force them to forgoe the benefits of filepump just because someone else's JS sucks	22:34
+perlDreamer	good point	22:34
+perlDreamer	is this a hypothetical question, or does WebGUI have that problem?	22:35
@preaction	JS that only works when placed before the content? it's everywhere. making JS work when deferred is not a common technique	22:36
+perlDreamer	most of the JS I've seen is all in yui-webgui, and it all works as deferred	22:37
* perlDreamer should get out more :)		22:37
@preaction	random JS that doesn't use frameworks usually doesn't work like that, so newbie JS	22:40
@Haarg	also, doing deferred js is usually really annoying without a framework	22:41
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+patspam	back again	23:10
+patspam	yeah what preaction said, the list of available template attachements should include filepump bundles	23:11
+patspam	I wouldn't mind forcing people to put JS at the bottom	23:11
+patspam	newbies probably wouldn't be using filepump anyway	23:12
+patspam	but I suppose a top/bottom checkbox is more friendly	23:12
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--- Day changed Fri Apr 02 2010
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+patspam	filepump wiki page is rockin now	00:23
+patspam	only about a year overdue	00:24
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r8f4024a / (3 files in 2 dirs): initial commit: new admin console - http://bit.ly/aE1N9n	00:58
+perlDreamer	preaction, what do you think about the Project Manager and Time Tracker being pulled out of the core and moved into their own repository?	01:19
@preaction	why?	01:19
+perlDreamer	I'm guessing that it's low usage.	01:19
@preaction	yes, but let's wait until i'm really pulling the strings around here	01:22
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mech422	hey pd - is there something 'funky' about how Account 'plugins' are handled ? I had to totally rename my module before modperl would detect it changed ? (then it went away, and renaming it back brough it back with the changes..)	01:36
+perlDreamer	mech422, it's all driven by the config file, and requires an apache restart	01:48
+perlDreamer	to see new code	01:48
mech422	perlDreamer: ahh - not just a 'modperl' restart from the web panel ?	01:50
mech422	I was just restarting mod_perl and mod_proxy	01:51
+perlDreamer	you only need to restart mod_perl	01:51
mech422	yeah.. that didn't seem to do it..ah well - maybe it was something funky with my browser cache or whatnot	01:51
mech422	its seeing the new code now, so I'm happy	01:52
mech422	btw - I scrapped profile fields and just went with an Account plugin - seems like it'll be easier for what I need	01:52
+perlDreamer	cool	01:53
+perlDreamer	mech422, are you really, finally doing a WebGUI project?	02:12
mech422	LOL - yeah :-P	02:12
mech422	Hmm - I got the dropdown boxes to select a style and layout for my module - but no 'edit' or 'manage' buttons ?	02:25
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+perlDreamer	for edit and manage buttons, you have to specify a default	03:11
mech422	ahh - thanks - that was driving me a bit bonkers	03:12
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mech422	pd - thanks for all the help :-) Time for meatloaf !! :-D	04:19
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+perlDreamer	preaction: http://blog.oregonlive.com/commuting/2010/03/aaa_ready_for_great_battery_ro.html	05:47
+perlDreamer	you gotta watch the video	05:47
+perlDreamer	well, you don't have to watch the video at the end	05:58
+perlDreamer	unless you like watching batteries being chopped up by lightsabers	05:58
+perlDreamer	if that's not your thing, just ignore the video	05:58
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@preaction	OMG an old school game boy!	06:03
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CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r33315ad / lib/WGDev.pm : add option to set_environment to not save the env in case you want to localize it yourself - http://bit.ly/aOmQBG	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r75eba2a / lib/WGDev/X.pm : add inflate method to WGDev::X that will rethrow a passed in object, or create a new exception for a string - http://bit.ly/aqf77j	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r6979ba0 / lib/WGDev/Command/For/Each.pm :	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: add more options to for-each command and allow multiple subcommands to	12:53
CIA-104	wgdev: be used - http://bit.ly/cDtvbO	12:53
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SDuensin	FRIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDAAAAAYYYYYYYY!!!!	16:09
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kimd	preaction, I am fixing the missing cancel button bug submitted by Kristi.	23:02
kimd	Is it ok to let JS do the job?	23:02
kimd	Or do we need a fallback in www_edit in case JS is disabled?	23:03
kimd	Haarg?	23:03
@preaction	you probably need a fallback, since there has been bugs previously about the JS-only solution failing	23:03
kimd	I see. But then there is another problem already.	23:04
kimd	The submit button seems to rely on JS for redirection to www_editSave.	23:04
kimd	Or do I miss something?	23:04
@preaction	if you do "history.go(-1)" twice, you will keep jumping between two pages, that's what i meant by failing	23:06
kimd	Hm. I don't think that can happen here. But still, does that mean I should avoid JS and use regular form processing?	23:07
@preaction	if you don't think it can happen, the go ahead. the only time it really happens is when you click on an Edit button for a template when viewing the edit page of an asset	23:09
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kimd	preaction, something else: Do we prefer tabs or space for indentation?	23:18
kimd	I would like to correct indentation in Post.pm since it's very confusing.	23:18
@preaction	there's a .perltidyrc file and there's a wiki entry (4 spaces)	23:18
kimd	Particularly the www_edit method.	23:18
kimd	Cool. Thanks!	23:19
@preaction	i wouldn't, use perltidy to make it look how you need and then put it back (it will screw up merging attempts)	23:19
kimd	I see.	23:19
kimd	Good night everyone!	23:40
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--- Day changed Sat Apr 03 2010
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@preaction	i like that the Blank Style isn't really blank and that the Empty Style doesn't show head tags...	01:18
* preaction didn't really want to get anything done the easy way, honest injun!		01:18
SDuensin	Whoa! Life!	01:26
* SDuensin is currently disgruntled with the WebGUI blog.		01:30
@preaction	webgui has a blog?	01:31
SDuensin	EXACTLY!	01:31
* SDuensin wants a nice tag-cloud of topics!		01:32
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mech422	hi all - anyone know what table this should hit : $setting->set("dmnStyleTemplateId", $form->process("dmnStyleTemplateId","template")); ?	02:15
mech422	it appears not to be getting updated so I thought I'd just query the db manually ...	02:15
@preaction	the settings table	02:16
@preaction	you have to have a setting that already exists with that name, otherwise you have to use "add"	02:16
mech422	doh! I should have guessed that table name :-P	02:16
mech422	oh? So how do you get the 'first' record into the table then ?	02:16
mech422	(this is from the skeleton code btw...)	02:17
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@preaction	$setting->add("name","value");	02:20
mech422	sorry - better question would be, is there a 'install' routine thats called so you can add that setting when you put in a new account object ?	02:20
mech422	err... new account 'module' ?? or whatever the plugin is called	02:21
@preaction	see sbin/installClass.pl if you want, it is an installer for classes	02:24
@Haarg	i hate how that works with settings	02:26
@preaction	yep. likewise	02:26
mech422	preaction: that fixed it - changed all the $setting->set() to $setting->add(), hit the settings form and saved stuff, then changed it back to $settings->set()	02:26
mech422	might be worth a comment in the skeleton code - it's sorta unintuiative	02:27
@Haarg	$t = $setting->get('key'); $t = $value if !defined $t; $setting->delete('key'); $setting->add('key', $t);	02:27
mech422	Haarg: Icck	02:28
@Haarg	yeah	02:28
mech422	any votes for $setting->updateOrAdd() ? :-P	02:28
mech422	or maybe addOrUpdate() ?	02:29
@preaction	no. update() should do "REPLACE INTO" and add() should call update	02:29
@Haarg	there's really no reason ->set shouldn't add the value if it doesn't exist	02:30
mech422	eh - either way - but the current skeleton code basically fails silently, which would be a bit disconcerting to new developers	02:30
@preaction	yep	02:30
mech422	I spent hours looking for an upstream proxy cache cuz the page wouldn't change from the default :-P	02:31
@Haarg	preaction, any reason for me not to change that right now?	02:33
mech422	Haarg: if you adding the comment to the skeleton - could you add one saying that you need a default value for the templates for the 'edit' and 'manage' buttons to appear, please.	02:34
@preaction	Haarg: none whatsoever	02:35
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r9113760 / t/Asset/File/GalleryFile/Photo/navigation.t : quiet photo navigation test and add better cleanup - http://bit.ly/buwx68	02:35
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r3b07f83 / t/_test.skeleton : remove END section from test skeleton - http://bit.ly/byk1mR	02:35
@Haarg	and should add just be an alias for set then?	02:36
@preaction	yes, for backcompat for now	02:36
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * rd0bc628 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Setting.pm : make setting set/add update or replace existing settings - http://bit.ly/a097DB	02:39
mech422	oh cool - thanks :-)	02:42
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r5e77a94 / (lib/WebGUI/Admin.pm lib/WebGUI/Content/Admin.pm): Bare minimum working - http://bit.ly/byF3sS	02:45
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+patspam	hello weekend warriors	20:11
+patspam	has there been any talk of lightning talks for the WUC this year?	20:11
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+patspam	Haarg, preaction: have you used local::lib to install wre modules?	21:18
@preaction	not yet no	21:18
@preaction	i want it though, for future WebGUI such	21:18
+patspam	I'm just deciding where to place the containing folder	21:19
+patspam	maybe: /data/wre/prereqs/perl5	21:19
+patspam	equiv to the default: ~/perl5	21:19
+patspam	which will end up with bin/ lib/ and man/ inside it	21:21
+patspam	it will be nice to have user-installed cpan modules separated from bundled wre cpan modules	21:22
+patspam	especially for dev - easy to see what you've installed extra to the wre	21:22
+patspam	i really hate setenvironment.sh	21:33
@preaction	likewise. i don't even use WRE anymore because of that.	21:35
+patspam	since I started using wgd I mostly stopped having to use it	21:35
kimd	Didn't JT once write that not using the wre is a stupid decision ;-)	21:36
+patspam	setenvironment should something that only other scripts need (like sbin/services/redhat/wre-apache)	21:37
kimd	Hm. Not sure how you would achieve that.	21:38
+patspam	kimd: what do you find yourself using setenvironment for at the moment?	21:40
kimd	I need to call it before I run utility scripts.	21:40
kimd	And use perl apps like perldoc	21:40
+patspam	for utility scripts I use: wgd util	21:41
+patspam	for mysql client I use: wgd db	21:41
kimd	Ok. But why is that better?	21:41
+patspam	doesn't pollute your current environment	21:41
kimd	wgd util makes 8 letters+	21:42
kimd	I would prefer to have up-to-date debian packages and get rid of wre completely.	21:42
kimd	That would keep your environment really clean.	21:42
+patspam	I wouldn't want that - I use my dev box for more than just webgui	21:42
kimd	Different people, different preferences.	21:43
kimd	You could still virtualize it.	21:43
kimd	But then again, you could use the image already provided.	21:43
+patspam	yeah. I want to keep everything webgui related separate from my system, and as close to my production environment as possible	21:43
kimd	Maybe that is the best solution.	21:43
+patspam	what image?	21:44
kimd	There is virtual machine image based on ...	21:44
kimd	I do not remember. It was something redhat related.	21:44
+patspam	eek no, I don't want to run webgui in a vm	21:44
+patspam	too slow and cumbersome	21:45
kimd	Why not? It's a very clean way to do your development.	21:45
kimd	Not cumbersome at all.	21:45
+patspam	I did it for over a year when my OS was windows	21:45
kimd	Have to set it up only once.	21:45
kimd	Instead of installing the wre you download the image and install that.	21:46
kimd	Then you use ssh and sshfs for everything else.	21:46
kimd	No problem at all. In particular not when working with gnome or kde.	21:46
kimd	Performance should not be a problem.	21:46
kimd	Our productive site is running on a vm.	21:47
+patspam	and when you're editing webgui core files?	21:48
+patspam	or just your own code on the vm	21:48
+patspam	you have to do it over ssh	21:48
+patspam	slow	21:48
+patspam	and you waste a whole lot of memory running the vm	21:48
kimd	gnome-vfs is your friend.	21:48
kimd	Come on, have you ever run short of memory on your development system?	21:48
+patspam	sure	21:49
kimd	Never happened to me. I have 2 GB installed and that has always been sufficient.	21:49
kimd	patspam, are you installing the vm already after having heard my convincing arguments?	21:59
+patspam	ha no, sorry	21:59
kimd	Doesn't matter. I am used to people not listening to me ;-)	22:00
kimd	My daughter is worst.	22:00
+patspam	kimd: I'm listening but like I said I've been down the vm route and I didn't like it	22:03
kimd	That's because the image supplied is terrible.	22:04
kimd	And configuration is a pain when you do it for the first time.	22:04
kimd	I am not using virtualization myself for development.	22:04
kimd	But I really believe that this is going to be the future.	22:05
kimd	Spend not time on installing something, but rather start immediately.	22:05
+patspam	no that's not the reason, I used to create my own vm from scratch customised exactly how I like it	22:05
+patspam	the problem was the vm	22:05
+patspam	I hated that barrier	22:05
+patspam	it's only a thin barrier but it was enough to annoy me on a daily basis	22:06
kimd	But there are little barriers these days as network integration is getting better and better.	22:06
kimd	Admittedly, on windows it is still a pain.	22:07
+patspam	typing 'wgd' before certain commands is much less pain, especially since I do a lot of other things via wgd plugins	22:07
kimd	I very much love linux in this respect.	22:07
kimd	What I do is using separate tabs in my gnome shell.	22:07
kimd	In one I run the setenvironment script.	22:07
+patspam	yeah I used to do that too, but every now and then I'd forget which shell I was in, and accidentally install a new cpan module into the wrong site_perl etc..	22:09
kimd	I see. So the problem is your memory, not the wre :-P	22:10
+patspam	so instead I have a 'wrecpan' alias for installing cpan modules into the wre, and for everything else stick to wgd (which runs in a different perl to the wre)	22:10
+patspam	ha yeah, and that's something I can't hack a solution for ;)	22:10
@Haarg	i used to never run setenvironment, but had a script 'wre' that would run setenvironment then whatever you gave it as parameters	22:12
+patspam	and now?	22:13
@Haarg	not using the wre at all	22:13
+patspam	ha, I can see a pattern here..	22:13
@Haarg	we've still had problems compiling it on os x 10.6 iirc.	22:14
kimd	Are there a lot of mac users among devs?	22:17
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@Haarg	everyone at plain black is on mac	22:18
@preaction	yes, i can't compile the damned thing on 10.6	22:18
+patspam	even now that koen has a mac?	22:22
kimd	Why is that? Does it have any advantages or are you all trying to be slick?	22:22
kimd	Ok. Enough for today. Happy hacking everyone! And enjoy your fancy macs ;-)	22:27
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michaleR	on a fresh install - just finished doing the first config - I get "unable to instantiate your style template" What's the usual cause for this?	23:28
Getty	party!	23:54
Getty	here is action	23:54
--- Day changed Sun Apr 04 2010
@preaction	michaleR: type ?func=edit at the end of the URL and then click "Save". it should never happen, ever.	00:08
michaleR	preaction: thank you, trying now, see I need to log in ... going to fail safe mode	00:12
michaleR	login and still get permission denied.	00:12
michaleR	hmmmm	00:12
michaleR	OK, I've got the Edit Template up...	00:20
michaleR	and the default template is blank...But I've saved it and now It's displaying ugly but functional. Thank you,	00:23
michaleR	This implies that the templates were null in the db. Yes?	00:29
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michaleR	Turn Admin On - Logs the user out? At least in Firefox and Chrome... ??	04:36
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kimd	Haarg, is that 1 am at the place where you live?	10:30
@Haarg	it's 2:35AM right now	10:36
kimd	Oh. I hope you have a big pot of strong coffee.	10:36
kimd	Important deadlines to meet?	10:36
@Haarg	not really	10:43
@Haarg	not doing much at all really. my schedule is always messed up on the weekends though.	10:43
kimd	:-)	10:48
kimd	I guess I can safely put into the category "night active human being".	10:48
kimd	put you...	10:48
kimd	Btw, do webgui devs work from home?	10:53
@Haarg	mostly	10:55
@Haarg	i work from the office because i am terrible at working from home	10:55
kimd	I totally understand. It's nice to have some colleagues around.	10:56
kimd	Haarg, I wish you a good night. We are heading towards the family. Eastern is calling...	11:33
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+perlDreamer	morning, Haarg	18:02
@Haarg	morning	18:02
+perlDreamer	Haarg: have you read the release notes for JSON 2.21?	18:05
@Haarg	i haven't, no	18:06
+perlDreamer	http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/MAKAMAKA/JSON-2.21/Changes	18:06
@Haarg	the encoding thing?	18:07
+perlDreamer	I was more thinking about the "infinite loop" in relaxed mode	18:07
@Haarg	i'm not sure how to read that exactly	18:09
@Haarg	it was a fix in 2.17	18:09
@Haarg	but the note makes it sound like it was only a problem in 2.16+	18:09
@Haarg	which would mean it was only a problem in 2.16	18:10
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+perlDreamer	yeah, I'm wondering if we need to bump our requirements for JSON, so users don't get bit by it	18:12
+perlDreamer	of course, our JSON is emitted by JSON.pm as well, so we're probably safe	18:12
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CIA-104	WebGUI: jt * r12465 /translations/Spanish/Spanish/.pm: Removing strange i18n file.	18:38
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r8327e35 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove i18n cruft in Dutch and Spanish. Fixes bug #11506 - http://bit.ly/cKIx6h	18:41
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2de75ea / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove i18n cruft in Dutch and Spanish. Fixes bug #11506 - http://bit.ly/bUEkZe	18:43
+perlDreamer	Haarg, re our talk last week about CS and sort scratch variables: http://gist.github.com/356500	18:53
@Haarg	it might be good to have it use 'revisionDate' instead of 'assetData.revisionDate' for the form param	18:59
+perlDreamer	true. there's no need to use assetData's over Thread's	19:00
+perlDreamer	do you think I should add in any other fields?	19:00
+perlDreamer	prior to this fix, _any_ valid post field could be used	19:01
@Haarg	which is intentional, but not particularly useful	19:01
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kimd	Happy Easter!	20:20
+perlDreamer	Happy Easter, kimd	20:20
kimd	Everyone painted his or her eggs?	20:21
+perlDreamer	yup	20:21
kimd	Good. That's more than I did.	20:21
+perlDreamer	uh oh. Is the young one upset?	20:21
kimd	No. We have enough chocolate to compensate :-D	20:22
kimd	preaction, have I mentioned that I start to like git?	20:24
kimd	git question: Does git pull also pull changes from an upstream repository (if configured of course)?	20:33
@preaction	yes, provided you specify which remote and branch you want to pull from	20:35
+perlDreamer	you can set each local branch to track an upstream repo, so it's handled automatically when you do git pull	20:35
kimd	I followed instructions in the wiki and did	20:37
kimd	git config remote.origin.url git@github.com:plainblack/webgui.git	20:37
kimd	Does that cause pulls from the original webgui repo for all branches?	20:37
kimd	Ah, no. My mistake.	20:37
+perlDreamer	preaction, re CS sorting fields	20:38
+perlDreamer	$self is not a CS	20:38
+perlDreamer	and building a prototypical one via newByPropertyHashRef you have to list all the fields	20:38
+perlDreamer	since it doesn't provide defaults from the Definition	20:38
+perlDreamer	I could walk the definition and build a set of fields	20:38
+perlDreamer	but an preferring to just whitelist the fields that we allow people to use as defaults from the definition	20:39
@preaction	okay, go with the whitelist	20:39
+perlDreamer	btw, getThreadsPaginator.t is awesome	20:39
@preaction	thanks. it was step 1 in fixing the four different ways to get threads	20:40
+perlDreamer	newByPropertyHashRef WILL d.r.t in WebGUI 8 and not just have sparse properties	20:46
+perlDreamer	I can see the cognitive dissonance forming even now	20:46
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6990f52 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11510, allowing non-valid sort fields in the form params to CS. - http://bit.ly/aud7qA	20:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r776f0c4 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11510, allowing non-valid sort fields in the form params to CS. - http://bit.ly/bO5cS1	20:48
+perlDreamer	kimd, from what I'm seeing in the revision log for RequestApprovalForVersionTag, it's always been plain text	20:52
kimd	Hm. Maybe, it was my e-mail client then automatically recognizing the URL.	20:53
+perlDreamer	I would guess that is it	20:53
kimd	I am going to repost as RFE. Ok?	20:53
+perlDreamer	No. If you post that as an RFE, it will be approved and accepted	20:53
+perlDreamer	we shall fix it as a UI improvement	20:54
+perlDreamer	A copy of that message goes into the Inbox	20:54
+perlDreamer	and it should be a real link anyway	20:54
+perlDreamer	because a browser won't autodetect it as a link	20:54
kimd	Ok. You want to do it? Or should I do it?	20:54
kimd	I should have time by tomorrow evening.	20:55
+perlDreamer	I think I'll do it right now	20:55
kimd	That's fine. I won't argue :-)	20:55
kimd	Still I have to bug you with git again.	20:56
kimd	I have the following lines in my config:	20:56
kimd	remote.upstream.url=git://github.com/plainblack/webgui.git	20:56
kimd	remote.upstream.fetch=+refs/heads/:refs/remotes/upstream/	20:56
kimd	Still, git pull only seems to pull from my fork and not the upstream repository.	20:56
+perlDreamer	I believe that for all new branches that it will set the right things for you	20:56
kimd	For instance, I cannot see your latest commit.	20:57
kimd	What about my master branch?	20:57
+perlDreamer	for branches that already exist, you may have to set them to track automatically	20:57
kimd	Where to look for instructions?	20:57
+perlDreamer	man git-branch	20:57
kimd	Hm. I am stuck.	21:02
kimd	According to documentation, my fork is automatically set as upstream repository for my local master branch.	21:02
kimd	That is why I get nothing when I do git pull.	21:03
kimd	I can do git pull upstream master.	21:03
kimd	But that has caused divergence in the past.	21:03
kimd	This is really confusing.	21:03
kimd	Is there anyone online working with a fork of the webgui repository?	21:03
kimd	How did you handle this?	21:03
+perlDreamer	I think people usually pull from the original (forked from) repo by hand	21:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r3417650 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11511. URLs in version tag approval emails should be links. - http://bit.ly/cPtuBT	21:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1df580f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11511. URLs in version tag approval emails should be links. - http://bit.ly/apm0sz	21:05
kimd	You mean "git pull upstream master" in combination with the upstream configuration I have posted before?	21:06
+perlDreamer	I don't think you need the additional configuration to do git pull otherRepo otherBranch	21:08
@preaction	provided "otherRepo" is already set up as a remote, no, it should just work	21:08
kimd	preaction, I believe I somehow screwed my master branch.	21:20
kimd	I am going to re-create it and see what happens.	21:20
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* perlDreamer heads off for a run		22:07
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@Haarg	kimd, your local master branch may not be configured as a tracking branch	22:49
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+patspam	perlDreamer: back from your run yet?	23:24
+perlDreamer	yes sir!	23:32
@tavisto	I don't think jogging to your fridge to grab a beer counts as "a run"	23:40
+perlDreamer	tavisto, technically that's wobbling to the fridge and back	23:41
+perlDreamer	the extra motion burns more calories	23:41
@tavisto	I suppose the wobbling gets worse depending on how many trips you've made :)	23:42
+perlDreamer	definitely	23:42
kimd	perlDreamer, I went out for a run today, too!	23:44
kimd	It felt good.	23:44
+perlDreamer	I like running	23:44
kimd	Was the first in two years.	23:44
kimd	I like it too. But I usually get bored after 40 minutes.	23:45
@preaction	fft, biking will always be better	23:45
kimd	fft?	23:45
+perlDreamer	fft ~~ meh	23:45
kimd	meh?	23:45
kimd	Don't confuse me.	23:45
+perlDreamer	wisconsin based sound used to denigrate other people's opinions	23:45
+perlDreamer	either that, or one of preaction's bike tires are leaking air	23:46
kimd	Ah, it's not an abbreviation for anything.	23:46
+perlDreamer	or, perhaps preaction himself is leaking air	23:46
kimd	Where is it stored in his body?	23:46
+perlDreamer	hmmmm	23:46
kimd	But I agree. Biking is also nice.	23:47
+perlDreamer	well, primary storage is two pulmonary sacs in the chest cavity	23:47
kimd	Did I mention I am going to live near the black forest?	23:47
kimd	That's good biking terrain.	23:47
kimd	Secondary storage?	23:47
+perlDreamer	that's good terrain for everything	23:47
kimd	Ther must be a backup.	23:47
+perlDreamer	nasal cavities, and gastro-intestinal	23:47
+perlDreamer	however, gas exchange does not happen in those area	23:48
+perlDreamer	where near the black forest, kimd?	23:48
kimd	Basel	23:48
kimd	L�rrach, actually, on the German side.	23:48
kimd	Ever been there?	23:48
+perlDreamer	may have driver through it on the way to Hausach or Wolfach	23:49
kimd	Do you have friends there?	23:49
kimd	Btw, I solved my git problems.	23:50
kimd	I had to reset to the commit before the commit causing conflicts.	23:51
kimd	After that I mirrored to my remote repo and pulled in changes from the webgui repo.	23:51
kimd	Now it seems to be working.	23:51
kimd	Fantastic.	23:51
kimd	Still, this is really complicated.	23:51
+perlDreamer	this is embarrassing, I can't remember the name of the town	23:53
+perlDreamer	although, to get there by train we had to go through Switzerland	23:53
+patspam	yay, just submitted my WUC talk proposal	23:59
+perlDreamer	cool! What's up patspam?	23:59
--- Day changed Tue Apr 06 2010
+patspam	ah not much, I was going to ask you if you thought I was mad to try to pitch my talk as Intermediate, but I decided to go with Advanced in the end	00:00
+perlDreamer	yeah, plack is definitely advanced	00:01
+perlDreamer	or are we calling it wackgui now?	00:01
+patspam	heh	00:01
kimd	What's plack, btw?	00:01
kimd	I read that word before in the chat.	00:01
kimd	Maybe I should join the talk.	00:02
+perlDreamer	plack is a technology that lets you write web-apps without worrying about what's running underneath you	00:02
+patspam	the implications are worth communicating to the non-Advanced crowd - e.g. business owners can start contemplating new types of innovative webgui-powered sites	00:02
+perlDreamer	so you can run on FCGI mode, or apache/mod-perl, or just about anything	00:02
+patspam	but I guess it's too early for that	00:02
kimd	Will that be the future?	00:03
kimd	Is it something an average user will have to worry about?	00:03
@Haarg	it is also meant to make it easy to combine multiple plack apps and run them together	00:03
+perlDreamer	patspam, I could use a TWG consult.	00:03
@Haarg	plack itself is mainly concerned with IO stuff	00:03
+perlDreamer	I need to supply a default font color for all account plugins	00:04
+perlDreamer	should I stuff that into wg-base.css, or create an account.css?	00:04
@Haarg	kimd: http://search.cpan.org/~miyagawa/PSGI-1.03/PSGI/FAQ.pod if you want to read about it	00:04
+perlDreamer	and, if only we'd used File Pump, I could put this into 1 place, instead of into each and every template...	00:04
+patspam	yeah!	00:04
kimd	Thanks, Haarg!	00:05
kimd	I am going to have a look at it.	00:05
+patspam	I think you could go either way, since account plugins are core in a sense	00:05
@Haarg	i've been using plack for a few personal projects and am loving it more and more.	00:05
+patspam	as long as it has some sort of account-specific selector on it this time around I'm sure the TWG will be happy	00:05
@Haarg	i set up a plack server running inside x-chat the other day (something a friend wanted to do). it feels wrong for it to be so easy.	00:06
kimd	I still have only a vague idea what it does.	00:06
kimd	All this abstract technical stuff is causing me headaches.	00:07
+patspam	Haarg: yeah I've been using Tatsumaki a bit for random projects, I like the way it unifies blocking and non-blocking into one API	00:07
+perlDreamer	that's exactly it, though, kimd	00:08
+perlDreamer	it's about abstraction	00:08
@Haarg	have you used anyevent much patspam?	00:08
+perlDreamer	no longer being tied to a particular implementation, like modperl	00:08
kimd	I figured that. It's all that layering stuff.	00:08
kimd	To be honest, I don't even know what modperl does.	00:09
+patspam	Haarg: first exposure to it was Tatsumaki	00:09
kimd	I have never dealt with that part of WebGUI.	00:09
+perlDreamer	we've done a pretty good job of encapsulating it	00:09
kimd	I assume it's the interface between the web server and WebGUI?	00:09
+perlDreamer	inside Session.pm and it's subclasses	00:09
+patspam	seems really nice though	00:09
kimd	I am glad I do not have to deal with it.	00:09
kimd	Good job indeed.	00:10
kimd	Ok, guys. It's bed time for me. Have a productive time!	00:10
kimd	Good night.	00:10
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@Haarg	i started working with poe recently, and have been trying to figure out anyevent now. i keep trying to figure out how you would do something like poe's yield in anyevent. i haven't really tried much though.	00:11
+perlDreamer	there's an account.css... that helps a lot	00:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r977036f / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11513, account text follows site defaults. Set a default font color for Account content in root/import/account/account.css - http://bit.ly/b0vrVG	00:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r6e25265 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix #11513, account text follows site defaults. Set a default font color for Account content in root/import/account/account.css - http://bit.ly/99ebYP	00:22
+perlDreamer	what's that thing you're supposed to do after you run?	00:25
+perlDreamer	...	00:25
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, eat	00:25
* perlDreamer slumps in his chair		00:25
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mech422	hey pd - in profile.pm, an edit form gets built dynamically and the template loops over profile_fields_loop - but I can't see profile_fields_loop getting built anywhere? is there some magic in the super class that builds it ?	00:59
+perlDreamer	mech422: try looking in User.pm	01:07
+perlDreamer	no, it's all done in Account/Profile.pm	01:09
+perlDreamer	the actual form building is done in www_edit	01:09
+perlDreamer	but it's passed off to another subroutine, where it sets the template variables	01:09
mech422	I'm specifically trying to figure out how it 'knows' what XX_fields_loop to build? so I can do the same in my account module... looking at the www_edit method, I see it mucking with $var->{'profile_category_loop'} (but not appending any categories to it?) but nothing for the profile_fields_loop	01:14
mech422	so I was guessing a 'magic' var got build based on module name ? (MODULE_fields_loop ?)	01:15
+perlDreamer	no	01:15
+perlDreamer	keep tracing the code, www_edit, appendCategoryVars and appendCommonVars	01:16
+perlDreamer	that should be all you need	01:16
mech422	kk	01:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9b36e44 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Added JS-type cancel button to edit view of WebGUI::Asset::Post (Bug #11514) - http://bit.ly/9jVL2i	01:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r01f0250 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug attribution to Bernd. - http://bit.ly/9J39Kq	01:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r9b2fff7 / (5 files in 5 dirs): Added JS-type cancel button to edit view of WebGUI::Asset::Post (Bug #11514) - http://bit.ly/c2XFiL	01:20
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rd6f4073 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Proper bug attribution to Bernd. - http://bit.ly/diYQJp	01:20
mech422	oh crap, I'm an idgit...thanks pd	01:21
+perlDreamer	probably smoked too much zope in your ill-spent youth	01:21
+perlDreamer	:)	01:22
mech422	yeah - got tunnel vision looking at the www_edit, and settings routines	01:22
mech422	prolly should look at the other 90% of the file too :-P	01:22
* perlDreamer heads off to pick up kiddos from school		01:23
+perlDreamer	back in 20	01:24
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elnino	anyone here from the template group?	01:43
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+perlDreamer	elnino, any feedback on those gallery bugs?	01:59
elnino	oh lordy. no.	02:00
* perlDreamer prepares to quote Mr. Filch		02:07
mech422	http://www.nakidness.com/images/funny/people/kids/full_brazilian/	02:07
mech422	whoops - wrong channel :-P	02:07
+perlDreamer	no nudie pictures mech422!	02:07
mech422	actually, its not :-P I'm not that kind of Mech	02:08
mech422	its more a "wishing for nudie" picture	02:08
mech422	here ya go pd - you'll think this is cute : http://www.nakidness.com/images/funny/pets/dogs/crocodile_dog_suit/	02:21
mech422	kk - the dog in the croc suit made my afternoon :-)	02:24
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elnino	anyone here familiar with temlates? I'm trying to do several layouts using the wg's sidebyside and rightcolumn. but i'm not getting any position blocks to show.	02:47
elnino	s/several/nested	02:47
elnino	what does * html do in css?	02:52
elnino	and how do you google "*"?	02:53
@preaction	elnino: "ghost root hack"	02:55
elnino	heh?	02:55
@Haarg	it's a rule that only applies to IE	02:56
elnino	I have no idea what that means preaction	02:56
@preaction	google that instead of "*"	02:56
@Haarg	it's a css hack that depends on a peculiarity of ie's DOM	02:57
elnino	hm.. ok.	03:00
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * rc356a7a / (8 files in 8 dirs): DateTime::Event::ICal in Calendar, workflow to extend recurrence - http://bit.ly/8Y9zEr	03:12
+perlDreamer	frodwith, all new modules have to be documented in docs/gotchas.txt. Could you do that, please?	03:16
@frodwith	damnit preaction	03:17
@frodwith	perldreamer: yes, I noted it in the changelog	03:17
@preaction	what? you said you did that	03:17
@frodwith	perldreamer: putting it in gotchas now	03:17
+perlDreamer	thanks, sir!	03:17
elnino	ok. let me ask this. anyone know what might cause two position blocks in a page layout to be black when hovering/moving an asset?	03:17
+perlDreamer	nice tests, btw	03:17
+perlDreamer	elnino, black is supposed to be the highlight color	03:18
+perlDreamer	maybe you could paste the layout templates?	03:18
+perlDreamer	are they core ones, or custom?	03:18
elnino	yes, im trying to do nested layouts. like rightcolumn and one column does a twooverone type thing	03:18
elnino	but I'm not sure what the layout and wg-content-position class identifiers do.	03:19
* perlDreamer heads back to the kitchen, bbiaw		03:19
CIA-104	webgui: Paul Driver master * r89b07a4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt docs/gotcha.txt): Noted new dependancy in the wrong place - http://bit.ly/cadmrz	03:19
elnino	for clrarity: http://pastebin.com/Aips5HRT - the actual template code is way too long.	03:27
elnino	Im pretty sure wg doesn; like e using the layout idenitfer more than once.	03:28
mech422	Is there an easy way to see/dump what vars are available at a given template scope ?	03:57
mech422	<tmpl_loop all> or something ?	03:57
@Haarg	not really mech422.	04:00
@Haarg	you could do it with Template::Toolkit	04:00
mech422	blah - I have no idea where my var is going... I didn't give it permission to wander off and leave the rest of the template!!	04:01
mech422	I have : http://pastebin.com/LwUe2P15	04:03
mech422	and template: http://pastebin.com/hszGxF8h	04:04
mech422	it appears <tmpl_loop dmn_account_loop> is evaluating to an empty loop as the dmn_test message doesn't display	04:04
+perlDreamer	you commented out the code that does the magic, mech422	04:08
+perlDreamer	you let out the magic smoke	04:08
mech422	pd -what magic ? I basically inlined appendCategoryVars ?	04:09
mech422	I _thought_ any element of $var got exposed to template, but it appears more complicated then that ?	04:10
+perlDreamer	it's a loop of loops	04:12
+perlDreamer	can you remind me what the top level goal of this is?	04:12
+perlDreamer	maybe you can get what you want a simpler way	04:12
mech422	I don't really need the nested loops - I just need a fields for a single 'tab'	04:14
mech422	so I thought I'd just do something like $var->fields (array)	04:14
mech422	but that didn't work to good	04:15
+perlDreamer	you can make a custom template that drops the tabbed interface	04:15
+perlDreamer	and set the profile fields to be invisible and uneditable	04:15
mech422	actually - I got the tabs across the top working...	04:15
mech422	its the template for 'my' module (1 radio box!!) thats the problem	04:16
+perlDreamer	elnino, that looks like rendered code	04:16
+perlDreamer	mech422, go up another level	04:16
+perlDreamer	what are you trying to do?	04:16
mech422	should any keys/elements added to $var be available to the template ?	04:16
+perlDreamer	mech422, if you're at the same level or lower, yes	04:17
+perlDreamer	if you just want to add a radio button, you can add more profile fields	04:17
mech422	I'm adding an 'account' module that will eventually function as a 'dashboard' for our site specific user stuff - subscription, newsletter subsciption, access to paid services, etc. Right now, it just needs a single 'subscribe to newsletter' radio button	04:18
+perlDreamer	then you shouldn't build this like the profile module	04:19
mech422	tried adding it as a profile field - but can't set the profile field defaults using arbitrary perl code - I need to go out to our mass email provider, and query the subscription database to 'get' an accounts current status, and need to send updates back if the user changes the status	04:19
+perlDreamer	for that, you make a custom Form plugin	04:19
+perlDreamer	and set it to be Profile Enabled	04:19
+perlDreamer	then you can add it as a profile field	04:19
+perlDreamer	see, now we're getting somewhere	04:20
mech422	and I do that for every custom field initializer I want to add later ?	04:20
mech422	that sounds counter productive	04:20
+perlDreamer	sometimes yes, sometimes no	04:20
+perlDreamer	but basing that kind of code on the Profile module is not wise	04:21
+perlDreamer	it's designed to be automatically extensible and flexible	04:21
+perlDreamer	you don't need all that in this case	04:21
mech422	I actually went with the 'account plugin' because I'll have a bunch of external systems to talk to - and getting to build the form myself just seemed easier..	04:21
+perlDreamer	it would be much easier	04:21
mech422	I'm not really 'basiing' it on profile - I'm using profile to try and figure out how the form/template stuff works	04:22
+perlDreamer	it's two steps that are interrelated	04:22
mech422	I hand build the form field using Form:Radio	04:22
+perlDreamer	yeah just get rid of all the loop stuff	04:22
+perlDreamer	pass the Template a hashref of variables	04:22
mech422	kk - trying that now	04:23
elnino	perlDreamer, yes, the template code is too long. I wanted people to see the div classes I've choosen to use. - that is what Im trying to accomplish, but I dont think wg likes me using nested "layout" identifiers like that.	04:36
elnino	I think Im just going to use tables.	04:36
mech422	pd - this look better ? http://pastebin.com/s2prxeMW (I have 2 test elements, and a loop element getting added for testing...)	04:37
+perlDreamer	WebGUI::Form::Radio is a class name	04:40
+perlDreamer	you need to call a method in it to do anything useful	04:40
mech422	poop - just guessed there...	04:41
+perlDreamer	I suggest WebGUI::Form::radio, which is a subroutine in the WebGUI::Form package	04:41
mech422	but dmn_test and dmn_test1 don't appear to be available... or is that cuz the form field is horked	04:41
mech422	http://pastebin.com/cBZSd7JK	04:41
elnino	by "not like", wg thinks the nested positions with in the oute position are all the same, and all turn black when I attempted to move an asset to posistion.	04:42
+perlDreamer	I'd need to see the template code to tell one way or the other, elnino	04:43
+perlDreamer	but you do have those nested div with the same class	04:43
+perlDreamer	that could be very bad	04:43
elnino	ok ill post it just a sec	04:43
+perlDreamer	mech422, the template itself looks okay. drop the call to SUPER::appendCommonVars and see what it says	04:45
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mech422	still nothing	04:48
mech422	let me remove the horked form field and just try it with the test keys	04:49
+perlDreamer	mech422, have you checked the apache error log, and the webgui log?	04:52
mech422	http://pastebin.com/UKLwrfxG	04:52
mech422	let me check again...	04:52
mech422	modperl error log looks ok - webgui log looks ok	04:53
mech422	template: http://pastebin.com/30cdZcrx I just expected to see 'DMN TEST' and 'DMN TEST1' in logs	04:54
mech422	err... in page	04:55
+perlDreamer	are you using the right template?	04:55
elnino	perlDreamer http://pastebin.com/ny4TCdMN - but don't worry abou tit much. I'm going with tables at this oint. I have a deadline.	04:55
mech422	if I change the string literal at the top of the page - it changes when I refresh	04:56
mech422	so it appears to be correct	04:56
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mech422	http://pastebin.com/8mKdfYVb <- cut it down to 9 lines, still nothing	05:00
+perlDreamer	mech422, could you paste the whole account plugin, please?	05:03
+perlDreamer	something doesn't seem right	05:03
+perlDreamer	like, are you sure that you're calling the edit method?	05:03
mech422	I thought www_edit was hardcoded or something - do I configure the method name somewhere ?	05:05
mech422	http://pastebin.com/TnjBMcR3 <- full plugin	05:06
+perlDreamer	mech422, www_view is hardcoded	05:10
+perlDreamer	www_edit has to be called specifically	05:10
+perlDreamer	now we're getting down to it	05:10
mech422	ah-ha!	05:10
+perlDreamer	to call www_edit, you need to have op=account;method=edit (I think)	05:11
+perlDreamer	put all that code into www_view instead	05:11
mech422	Woot! that did it !	05:12
+perlDreamer	now are you in business?	05:13
+perlDreamer	also, if you want a simple yes/no field, use WebGUI::Form::yesNo	05:13
+perlDreamer	it will do the right thing already, and is internationalized to boot	05:13
mech422	thanks pd !! :-)	05:14
mech422	yeah - I looked at WebGUI:Form and WebGUI::Form::Radio - but couldn't puzzle them out...	05:15
+perlDreamer	Radio is 1 radio button	05:15
+perlDreamer	not very useful	05:15
+perlDreamer	RadioList is several buttons for the same form variable name	05:15
+perlDreamer	YesNo is special Radio List with only two buttons, yes and no	05:15
+perlDreamer	Form is a dispatcher to any of the form fields, using AUTOLOAD	05:16
mech422	ahh - I thought there might be some perl voodoo in there	05:16
mech422	let me go look at YesNo...	05:16
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:59
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+bartjol	morning SDuensin	17:51
SDuensin	Hey bartjol	17:51
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kimd	Native speakers, would you prefer the label "rotate left" or "rotate counter clockwise"?	18:56
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+perlDreamer	morning, folks	19:50
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@preaction	if it is a good morning which i doubt	19:54
@preaction	http://www.break.com/index/math-teacher-shadow-trick-during-lecture.html	19:56
+perlDreamer	what kind of calamity do we need to cause this morning, preaction?	19:58
@preaction	we could always blow up the urth	19:58
+perlDreamer	if we blow it up, we couldn't rule it, though	19:59
@preaction	who would want to rule it? i have enough trouble just living on it	19:59
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+perlDreamer	nice video, preaction	20:07
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+perlDreamer	patspam, I fixed the Survey multi-slider!	21:14
+patspam	congrats!	21:14
+patspam	perlDreamer++	21:14
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r33c54b6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11469, multi-allocation slider doesn't work. Make sure that allocMax is set in all cases. - http://bit.ly/aSnWgW	21:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r0bac357 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug #11469, multi-allocation slider doesn't work. Make sure that allocMax is set in all cases. - http://bit.ly/afeHUh	21:15
+perlDreamer	next week is a very big week	21:17
+patspam	why is that?	21:17
+perlDreamer	that's the end of the 6 week beta testing period for the spectre bug fix	21:18
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+patspam	oooh	21:18
+perlDreamer	so, if it works, no more spectre restarts	21:18
kimd	perlDreamer, are you familiar with thumbnail generation?	21:28
kimd	I have a strange phenomenon here.	21:28
+perlDreamer	too familiar, kimd	21:28
kimd	That's good.	21:28
kimd	I cannot get an updated thumbnail after rotating all pictures attached to a photo asset.	21:29
kimd	The pictures (that is all resolutions) are rotated properly.	21:29
+perlDreamer	but the thumbnail isn't updated	21:29
+perlDreamer	it stays in the original orientation?	21:29
kimd	The thumbnail, however, remains unchanged after calling ->generateThumbnail.	21:29
kimd	You are typing too fast :-)	21:30
kimd	Yes, exactly.	21:30
+perlDreamer	Does the same thing happen with an Image Asset?	21:30
kimd	I get no error messages.	21:30
kimd	Not sure. I am working with the gallery only at the moment.	21:30
kimd	It's about RFE #620.	21:31
kimd	Any idea or hint?	21:31
kimd	I checked generateThumbnail already.	21:31
kimd	It does a call to WebGUI::Storage::generateThumbnail.	21:31
kimd	I do not see why it should not work.	21:32
+perlDreamer	where does the call happen?	21:32
kimd	Could this be a browser caching issue?	21:32
kimd	Wait, I am going to put the code into a pastebin.	21:32
+perlDreamer	it could be a browser caching issue	21:33
kimd	perlDreamer, check http://webgui.pastebin.com/tLd9kDiZ	21:33
kimd	One moment, please. I need to bring my daughter to bed.	21:34
+perlDreamer	the next thing I would check is the timestamp on the thumbnail file, and make sure it is being updated correctly without using a browser	21:36
kimd	perlDreamer, can that be true? It's magically working now.	21:40
kimd	You must have some extraordinary powers.	21:41
+perlDreamer	extraordinary powers only available in the United States, and Germany. All rights reserved. For more information on extraordinary powers, please visit www.perldreamer.com	21:41
+perlDreamer	kimd, what can we do about the Shortcut metadata filter hoverhelp to make it clearer?	21:42
kimd	Hm. Good question.	21:49
kimd	Let me have a look.	21:49
kimd	I will try to come up with something useful.	21:49
kimd	perlDreamer, I guess one thing that would help is graying out elements if the filter is not enabled. The current appearance suggests, that filters and additional meta data gui elements are not related.	21:51
kimd	In addition I would add a line of help between the filter text box and meta data fields.	21:51
kimd	Something like "Use meta data fields to construct filter rules."	21:52
kimd	Does that make sense?	21:52
+perlDreamer	yes	21:52
+perlDreamer	I don't know about adding the extra line of help	21:52
+perlDreamer	it does have hoverhelp	21:52
kimd	That's true. But the hoverhelp does not cover meta data form elements.	21:53
kimd	Maybe you could extend hoverhelp with some instructions?	21:53
+perlDreamer	definitely	21:53
+perlDreamer	also, the meta field form elements should be disabled unless "Shortcut by alternate criteria" is selected.	21:53
kimd	Ah. I was too fast. In fact there is already a sentence at the end.	21:53
kimd	Exactly.	21:53
+perlDreamer	the text area grays out, but the builder still works	21:54
kimd	True.	21:54
kimd	Should I add that to my bug report?	21:54
+perlDreamer	yes, please	21:54
+perlDreamer	we could expand the hoverhelp with better instructions, too	21:54
+perlDreamer	one sentence is a little terse for something that complex	21:55
kimd	You are the native speaker and documentation expert. I leave that up to you ;-)	21:57
-!- Getty is now known as _Getty		21:57
-!- _Getty is now known as Getty		21:58
+perlDreamer	kimd, I'm surprised that you didn't notice the i18n bug in there	22:00
+perlDreamer	the Add button in the Shortcut form, it says "Add", right?	22:00
kimd	Wait. I just switched to English.	22:01
kimd	perlDreamer, you are right. Forms apparently are not internationalized.	22:02
kimd	I am going to add another bug report.	22:02
+perlDreamer	they're supposed to be	22:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r08b662b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Internationalize the Add button in the Criteria builder for the Shortcut. - http://bit.ly/8ZElxy	22:02
kimd	Ah, damn! You are really fast!	22:02
+perlDreamer	I only did the Add button	22:02
+perlDreamer	do AND and OR need it, too?	22:03
kimd	One moment. My daughter is complaining.	22:03
+perlDreamer	nope, AND and OR are i18n'ed	22:04
kimd	perlDreamer, that's correct. German translation is there already.	22:08
kimd	perlDreamer, thanks for applying the cancel button bug fix. And I am sorry for forgetting about all the other post forms. Were you able to pull my commit without problems?	22:13
+perlDreamer	oh yeah, it worked great	22:13
+perlDreamer	git remote add spunky spunky_git_url	22:14
+perlDreamer	git cherry-pick commitspec	22:14
+perlDreamer	that was all it took	22:14
+perlDreamer	then, wgd edit 5 times	22:14
+perlDreamer	wgd package -u	22:14
+perlDreamer	and done!	22:14
kimd	wgd edit allows you to edit templates directly? Cool!	22:15
kimd	Btw, I accidently re-opened the bug report :-/	22:15
+perlDreamer	wgd edit lets you edit _any_ asset	22:16
+perlDreamer	but it's very handy for templates	22:16
+perlDreamer	kimd, what do you think of this for hoverhelp: http://gist.github.com/357966	22:17
kimd	Yeah, that's great. I would understand now :-)	22:18
* perlDreamer takes a lunch break		22:19
kimd	preaction, do you think drag'n'drop sorting for the gallery is going to make it into 7.9.2?	22:51
@preaction	i'm trying to get through my inbox today, so probably	22:51
kimd	Cool. Let me know if I need to do more.	22:54
kimd	Enough for today. Good night everyone!	22:54
-!- kimd [~spunky@p549F46D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]		22:54
+perlDreamer	what's the DOM command for grabbing elements by class?	23:08
@preaction	there is none.	23:13
@preaction	YUI has one. YUI.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName() i believe	23:13
+perlDreamer	yup, that is i	23:22
+perlDreamer	t	23:22
-!- mech422 [~steve@c-69-181-119-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #webgui		23:31
+perlDreamer	almost got it	23:46
+perlDreamer	It would be nice to know why element.concat(YUI.util.Dom.getElementsByClassName()) didn't do the right thing	23:46
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r64f7bd9 / (1004 files in 4 dirs): more work on Admin. added FamFamFam icon set - http://bit.ly/a8kASw	23:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * rf32f209 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix shortcut hoverhelp, javascript, and criteria builder usability. Fixes bug #11516 - http://bit.ly/c8eJd1	23:53
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r982e511 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Fix shortcut hoverhelp, javascript, and criteria builder usability. Fixes bug #11516 - http://bit.ly/b8SaPZ	23:54
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf06ce2e / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm): Internationalize the Add button in the Criteria builder for the Shortcut. - http://bit.ly/adjBzw	23:54
--- Day changed Wed Apr 07 2010
+perlDreamer	i love it when I can write javascript	00:00
* perlDreamer heads off to savor the glory, and to pick up the kids from school		00:02
-!- vayde [~vayde@70-59-73-116.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]		00:04
+patspam	riddle me this	00:06
+patspam	why does modperl drop from 180 req/s to 65 req/s when I turn off Apache2::SizeLimit?	00:06
@preaction	that's an excellent question	00:07
@preaction	immediately? or after a while?	00:07
+patspam	immediately	00:07
+patspam	something else is killing child processes?	00:07
@preaction	well there's MaxRequestsPerChild	00:07
+patspam	it's bizarre, even with that commented out or set to 10000	00:08
+patspam	I still hit MaxClients	00:08
+patspam	I'm using ab to benchmark it	00:09
+patspam	with: ab -t 3 -c 10 -k	00:09
+patspam	so, should be 10 concurrent clients	00:09
+patspam	and I have StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers all set to 12	00:10
+patspam	and MaxClients set to 15	00:10
@preaction	10 concurrent clients, but do they request the page collateral too?	00:11
@preaction	also, i might try using siege instead	00:11
+patspam	ab should just do a single GET request i think	00:12
+patspam	it's just bizarre	00:14
+patspam	I set -c set to something smaller like 5, so ab should do 5 concurrent requests, still get 65 req/s, but if I turn on Apache2::SizeLimit, immediately get 100 more reqs/sec	00:15
@preaction	perlDreamer: did you pull from kimd for the bugfix he did?	00:19
+patspam	it's specifically the $Apache2::SizeLimit::CHECK_EVERY_N_REQUESTS setting	00:20
+patspam	the higher I set that, the better my reqs/s become	00:20
+patspam	5 => 160, 20 => 250, 1000 => 350...	00:21
@preaction	that sounds like a good blog entry. perhaps you could do me a favor?	00:24
+patspam	yes?	00:24
@preaction	could you graph a number of points and find an optimal setting before the returns become too much?	00:24
+patspam	sure - except it's likely to be machine dependent right?	00:24
+patspam	I'm interested in modperl performance metrics so that i can do fair comparisons to PSGI	00:26
@preaction	ok	00:27
@preaction	perhaps we could make a script that grabs some data points and then graph them and see if we can find some correlations?	00:28
@preaction	i like performance enhancement almost as much as i like performance measuring	00:28
+patspam	yeah, it'd have to rewrite modperl.pl and restart modperl to get each data point	00:29
@preaction	just a fun (well, interesting to me at least) exercise if you want to do it. some of the other devs might be interested in a quick way to improve performance on their sites too	00:29
+perlDreamer	preaction: yes	00:31
mech422	patspam: according to this http://perl.apache.org/docs/2.0/api/Apache2/SizeLimit.html thats expected behavior (eg overhead in checkign process size ?)	00:33
+perlDreamer	mech422, but (see head of thread) the funky behavior is with SizeLimit off	00:33
+patspam	hey mech422! yeah it makes sense with SizeLimit enabled.. the thing that confuses me is.. yeah what perlDreamer said!	00:33
mech422	apache has process size limiting 'built in' doesn't it ?	00:34
-!- SDuensin [~scott@173-28-73-10.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]		00:34
* perlDreamer doesn't think so		00:34
mech422	SizeLimit is just 'better' then the default ...	00:34
+perlDreamer	just number of children	00:34
+perlDreamer	number of requests for each child	00:34
+perlDreamer	etc	00:34
mech422	could have sworn it had some max_memory type thing ?	00:34
mech422	ahh well	00:34
mech422	so if there's no max - your trashing?	00:35
mech422	err.. thrashing ?	00:35
-!- SDuensin [~Scott@173-28-73-10.client.mchsi.com] has joined #webgui		00:36
-!- preaction [~doug@207.200.236.230] has quit [Quit: preaction]		00:36
+patspam	I think there's something else killing child processes.. maybe a built-in apache thing or a stray config option somewhere in the depths of the wre	00:36
+perlDreamer	you limit memory usage by limiting the number of children, and the number of requests each child should handle before being reaped	00:36
+patspam	not thrashing, still plenty of memory free	00:37
mech422	so you have plenty of memory, and check_every_NN stops if from doing something that burns cpu cycles...	00:38
+patspam	yeah, that part makes sense	00:38
mech422	killing/respawning processes or what have you	00:38
+patspam	but when Apache2::SizeLimit is supposedly turned off	00:38
+patspam	I still hit MaxClients	00:39
+patspam	and performance drops by 100 req/s	00:39
+patspam	sounds like something less efficient that Apache2::SizeLimit is killing children	00:39
mech422	hmm - define 'turned off' ? it needs to be removed from the perlCleanuphandler in httpd.conf right ?	00:39
mech422	or maybe your setting it to 0 and its busy looping ?	00:40
+patspam	ah maybe that's it!	00:40
+perlDreamer	maybe it's still doing something, even though it's disabled	00:40
+patspam	I'm just commenting out modperl.pl	00:40
mech422	coolio - try that and see if it works ?	00:41
+patspam	mech422++	00:41
+patspam	400 req/s	00:41
mech422	acck - I've been replaced !!	00:41
mech422	Help help !! I'm too cute to increment !!	00:41
+patspam	heh you have to rename your alias to mech423 now	00:42
+perlDreamer	perlbot: karma mech422	00:42
perlbot	perlDreamer: mech422 has karma of 1	00:42
+perlDreamer	as long as we can access his counter, we can still use arithmetic to find mech422	00:43
+perlDreamer	mech422, how's yer plugin comin'?	00:43
mech422	Hmm - does this make me stack based ?	00:43
mech422	pd - good thanks :-) I'm working on the iContact connection now	00:44
+perlDreamer	pointer referencing	00:44
+patspam	awesome, I've got a real target to aim at now for the PSGI branch	00:44
mech422	pd - thanks for all the help yesterday :-) I was really getting a bit confuzzled	00:44
+perlDreamer	you're welcome, mech422	00:44
+perlDreamer	it would be worth doing some code review in Content/Account	00:45
+perlDreamer	to better understand how method calling works	00:45
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re724275 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Shortcut.pm : Fix merge problem - http://bit.ly/a8wEKS	00:48
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2ce0ab7 / t/Workflow/Activity/ExtendCalendarRecurrences.t : Case sensitive tables in the ExtendCalendarRecurrences test. - http://bit.ly/diih5b	00:53
+patspam	current best benchmark I can get for WebGUI8 is 30 req/s	01:13
+patspam	whereas master (7.9) is >400 req/s	01:14
+perlDreamer	hm	01:15
+perlDreamer	is this WebGUI8 with plack and Moose, or just WebGUI8 with moose, patspam?	01:16
+patspam	just moose	01:16
+perlDreamer	ouch	01:16
+perlDreamer	13X slower	01:16
+patspam	the WebGUI8 branch in git	01:16
+patspam	do I need to do anything to configure memcached?	01:16
+perlDreamer	I always just run it from the command line	01:16
+perlDreamer	memcached -d	01:16
+perlDreamer	as root	01:16
+patspam	it's running.. how do I tell if webgui is using it?	01:17
+perlDreamer	if it can't find a memcached instance, it will crash badly	01:17
+perlDreamer	so I'd say you're good	01:17
+perlDreamer	although I have heard preaction say that the cache code is slower in wg8	01:18
+perlDreamer	but still, 13X slower is not good	01:18
+perlDreamer	given that wg8 was supposed to be about performance	01:18
+patspam	try running: ab -t 1 -c 10 -k http://dev.localhost.localdomain:8081/ \| grep Req	01:18
+patspam	or equivalent	01:18
+patspam	with StartServers, MinSpareServers, MaxSpareServers, MaxClients all set to 10 in modperl.conf	01:19
+patspam	assuming you're running preform MPM	01:20
+perlDreamer	in Master, I get ~75/sec	01:23
+perlDreamer	in WebGUI8, I get 0.33/sec	01:23
+patspam	do you have $Apache2::SizeLimit::CHECK_EVERY_N_REQUESTS set to something big like 1000?	01:24
+patspam	I was getting 65/sec in Master before I increased it	01:24
+perlDreamer	that's with a source install	01:24
+perlDreamer	and 1/2/5/150 for Start, MinSpare, MaxSpare and MaxClients	01:24
+perlDreamer	hang on	01:27
+perlDreamer	I had it stuck in as a clean-up handler	01:27
+perlDreamer	with no additional configuration	01:27
+perlDreamer	let me comment it out and try again	01:27
+perlDreamer	with the Apache::SizeLimit commented out, I still get about ~75 on the top end	01:30
+perlDreamer	for master	01:30
+perlDreamer	but in WebGUI8 the data varies from 0.6 to 2.6	01:30
+perlDreamer	(range wise)	01:30
+perlDreamer	the average is probably 0.8	01:30
+patspam	PSGI branch gets 20/sec using Starman as the server	01:33
+patspam	for WebGUI8	01:33
+perlDreamer	you win!	01:33
+patspam	heh no, I get 30/sec via modperl	01:33
+patspam	but it's catching up	01:33
+patspam	that's with starman --workers 10	01:33
+patspam	so roughly equivalent to modperl with 10 child processes	01:33
+patspam	except that each starman prefork is only 30 Mb whereas the modperl ones are 70 Mb	01:34
+patspam	although shared memory blah blah	01:34
* perlDreamer tries not to get laptop envy		01:35
mech422	Umm - if your gonna throw in hooks to purge memcached on updates - perhaps it could be generalized to use Varnish as a front-end cache ?	01:38
mech422	(you purge varnish objects by using http requests)	01:39
mech422	if you want mind blowing performance - varnish is where its at :-D	01:39
mech422	hmm - I wonder if there's a modperl thingy for nginx ?	01:46
+perlDreamer	mech422, I think nginx will work in FCGI mode, with a persistent perl interpreter	01:47
+perlDreamer	without the full monte overhead of mod_perl	01:47
* perlDreamer is still shocked at the overhead of Moose		01:48
mech422	yeah - ngnix does FCGI - but can modperl run in a 'normal' perl vm ?	01:48
* mech422 has no clue what modperl 'rules' are or what it changes		01:49
Getty	mod_perl is an apache module.........................	01:49
Getty	so......	01:49
mech422	err...I mean can modperl based code run in a 'normal' perl vm	01:49
Getty	it depends on what features you use, probably	01:49
Getty	mod_perl can be used to just start it like a fastcgi and sets some var / vhosts	01:50
Getty	that can be easily done different in other webservers	01:50
Getty	thats why god invented stuff like catalyst to abstract that problem	01:50
mech422	does modperl have issues with something like this: bless($self, $class_name); $foo = $self->bar() ; blah blah ; return $self	02:10
mech422	(eg can I use $self->method() inside the creator if $self is already blessed ? )	02:11
+perlDreamer	no, and yes	02:11
mech422	Hmm - it keeps looking for bar() in package main	02:12
+perlDreamer	are you inheriting from anything?	02:12
mech422	Umm - Account	02:12
mech422	wait, no	02:13
+perlDreamer	:)	02:13
mech422	I'm use'ing my module from a module based on Account	02:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdee5bbe / (8 files in 3 dirs): Proper Moose setup for addRevision... - http://bit.ly/agWSrL	02:13
mech422	and I get:	02:14
mech422	Unable to run www_view on dmnaccount: Can't locate object method "get" via package "main" at /data/DMN/lib/WebGUI/iContactV2.pm line 61.	02:14
mech422	at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Content/Account.pm line 171	02:14
+perlDreamer	does iContactV2 have a get method?	02:15
mech422	yes - and it worked as a standalone module	02:15
* perlDreamer says "hm" and takes a small break		02:16
* mech422 says blah and takes a double shot :-)		02:16
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* mech422 starts gutting code		02:30
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-!- mode/#webgui [+o preaction] by ChanServ		03:08
+patspam	ok this is promising	03:08
+patspam	if I short-circuit contentHandlers in both WebGUI8 and PSGI branches so that they return 200 without doing any work beyond the initial setup	03:09
+patspam	modperl achieves 800 requests/s	03:09
+patspam	PSGI (starman) achieves 1100/sec	03:09
+patspam	so PSGI is now beating modperl, in terms of the basic overhead	03:10
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+patspam	that makes me happy :)	03:12
-!- preaction [~doug@66-168-66-52.dhcp.fdul.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]		03:12
-!- preaction_ is now known as preaction		03:12
mech422	patspam: I'm happy too - I beat my code bloody with a big stick, and it now talks XML to iContact from within a WG 'Account' module :-)	03:27
+patspam	yay!	03:27
+patspam	preaction: you about?	03:27
@preaction	yeah, fixing a compy. sup	03:27
+patspam	WebGUI::Session::Output	03:28
+patspam	does it really need to handle STDOUT and file handles?	03:28
+patspam	not sure if it will be a problem or not, but trying to understand why we have it	03:29
+patspam	and if we will still need it afterwards	03:30
+patspam	the only thing I can see that uses $session->output->setHandle is AssetExportHtml	03:32
+patspam	I don't think we'll need it once we go psgi	03:33
@preaction	we have to have HTML export, absolutely must. doesn't matter how we do it, just that we can do it (and that it can be triggered from the UI)	03:38
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* Getty underlines that		03:41
+patspam	agreed	03:44
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mech422	g'nite all	03:53
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-!- mode/#webgui [+v perlDreamer] by ChanServ		04:14
+perlDreamer	patspam++	04:14
+perlDreamer	curse you preaction, and your GalleryFile hacker!	04:15
@preaction	heh	04:15
@preaction	sorry, fixing compy for familia	04:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r18466ca / lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/Asset_GalleryFile.pm : Stubbed out i18n file for Asset_GalleryFile - http://bit.ly/azOYjp	04:25
+perlDreamer	oh, I see	04:27
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re03fdef / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Sku/EMSRibbon.pm : i18n fix for EMSRibbon definition - http://bit.ly/c3LdEh	04:27
+perlDreamer	while I slave away over a hot text editor all day long, you're gallavanting along in the spring-time evenings	04:27
+patspam	woot, just got streaming response body working	04:28
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r54ea1f6 / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Catch exceptions when making assets to commit. - http://bit.ly/dciNj0	04:49
+perlDreamer	curse you again, preaction!	04:54
+perlDreamer	you and your defaultless templateId!	04:55
+perlDreamer	may you grow hair out of your nose and ears	04:55
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1860408 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm :	04:59
CIA-104	webgui: Set a default template for the Subscription role.	04:59
CIA-104	webgui: use WebGUI::Mail::Send, too. - http://bit.ly/cwiYVa	04:59
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc549803 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Reindent Article.pm - http://bit.ly/9FFb36	05:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rce39ad6 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Article.pm : Must set cache after updating, since the attribute clears the cache if the ids are different. - http://bit.ly/aoE5QV	05:11
+perlDreamer	yay! All tests are passing.	05:11
+perlDreamer	all 2794 of them	05:11
+perlDreamer	first time ev_ar	05:12
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r45b6f45 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Add tests for Article->getStorageLocation, call addToCleanup by classname. - http://bit.ly/da7B4Y	05:28
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r794b26d / (2 files in 2 dirs): Moose override commit in Thread and CS. - http://bit.ly/cORcVb	05:31
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+patspam	perlDreamer++ congrats!	06:25
+perlDreamer	thanks :)	06:34
+perlDreamer	patspam, you're a very lucky fellow.	06:38
+perlDreamer	Kathy is showing me pictures	06:38
+patspam	of?	06:38
+perlDreamer	You and Helen	06:38
+patspam	ha ow man! facebook?	06:38
+perlDreamer	yeah	06:39
+patspam	ha, I haven't seen them yet, helen just messaged me a few minutes ago saying that someone had tagged some with us in them	06:39
+perlDreamer	you've been outted	06:41
+perlDreamer	programmer, business owner, New York socialite	06:41
+patspam	drunkard =p	06:41
+perlDreamer	"classy" drunkard	06:49
+perlDreamer	not everyone get drunk on fine Oregon wine and Scotch	06:50
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rb8a0130 / lib/WebGUI/AssetAspect/Subscribable.pm : Provide a default templateId so the magic buttons work. - http://bit.ly/cioK0j	06:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r3d593c6 / (61 files in 31 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.2 release - http://bit.ly/chnpuW	06:55
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r2e7b230 / (80 files in 40 dirs): Add new uploads. - http://bit.ly/aYxwo2	06:57
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r83ffaf9 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.9.3 development - http://bit.ly/a15Awz	07:56
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-!- Radix_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [7.8.15-stable \| 7.9.2-beta \| WRE 0.9.3] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com		09:12
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12466 /translations/German/German/Activity_ExtendCalendarRecurrences.pm: Updating German on translation server	11:29
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12467 /translations/German/German/Asset_Calendar.pm: Updating German on translation server	11:29
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12468 /translations/German/German/ (4 files): Updating German on translation server	11:29
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12469 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/ (5 files): Updating Dutch on translation server	12:02
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12470 /translations/Dutch/Dutch/Asset_Photo.pm: Updating Dutch on translation server	12:02
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12471 /translations/German/German/Asset_Photo.pm: Updating German on translation server	12:02
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:56
+perlDreamer	yo, SDuensin	16:56
ckotil	anyone know if the bug has been fixed where search results paginate for results that are not viewable by the user?	16:58
ckotil	example here: http://tinyurl.com/ygnlbwf	16:58
+perlDreamer	there's a bug for that?	17:00
+perlDreamer	ckotil, that page requires a login	17:03
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@preaction	on which page? the Shelf asset? that's not a bu	17:04
@preaction	g	17:04
ckotil	oh, hangon.	17:06
ckotil	http://tinyurl.com/ybqpfpg	17:07
ckotil	forgot i was still on https.	17:07
ckotil	we require login for any https connection	17:07
ckotil	the SSO does anyway	17:07
+patspam	morning	17:18
+patspam	has anyone tested on Perl 5.12.0 yet?	17:18
+perlDreamer	not I	17:20
+perlDreamer	perhaps patspam	17:20
+patspam	no way that guy never does anything productive	17:21
+perlDreamer	ckotil, that is indeed odd	17:21
+perlDreamer	but are you willing to trade large amounts of performance to fix that bug?	17:21
+perlDreamer	preaction: indications are that we have indeed fixed the long-term spectre bug	17:22
@preaction	yay!	17:22
@preaction	what did it end up being?	17:22
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/358934	17:23
+perlDreamer	no return value checking on starting a cron job	17:24
+perlDreamer	if out tester continues to experience no problems, that patch will be included in 7.9.3	17:24
+perlDreamer	and 7.8.18	17:24
@preaction	so then webgui would think it was started, when it never was, and it would never get started again because they're all singleton	17:25
+perlDreamer	right	17:25
@preaction	nice	17:25
ckotil	perlDreamer: nah, its not a real bad bug. just annoying. and noone has even mentioned it yet.	17:25
+perlDreamer	it's definitely ugly	17:25
@preaction	ckotil: the problem is that the search asset only prefilters by group ID, where canView can do anything	17:26
ckotil	ok. makes sense	17:27
ckotil	This sort of thing will be resolved in the greate search rewrite that is webgui8?	17:27
@preaction	there is no great search rewrite	17:33
ckotil	oh. i thought i read that on the todo list.	17:33
+patspam	maybe in wg9 the WRE should bundle kinosearch or something	17:38
@preaction	it was. it got bumped because we didn't have time	17:38
@preaction	how the heck do i merge kimd's branch? i tried "git merge" but then when i go to rebase so i can push it goes all wonky and makes me manually add everything	17:39
ckotil	ah	17:39
+patspam	perlDreamer: just to make you jealous..	17:41
+perlDreamer	the problem isn't the actual search, it's the display code	17:41
+patspam	..I'm running webgui and viewing debug/warnings through inside padre	17:42
+patspam	with clickable line numbers for warns	17:43
+perlDreamer	is that just a special tail -f, or is there additional padre magin involved?	17:43
+patspam	it's via the Plack plugin	17:44
+patspam	the console lets me start/stop/configure the server, and does an equivalent to tail on the output	17:44
+patspam	and detects line number references to make them clickable	17:44
+perlDreamer	I'm not in love with the editor (because it isn't vim) but that's a very nice feature	17:45
+perlDreamer	back in 20	17:45
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+bartjol	mmm, anyone seen an sqlreport complain about empty queries?	18:03
+perlDreamer	only in debug mode, bartjol	18:04
+bartjol	query1 is doing it's job, only query2 (which indeed is empty) fills up the error log	18:05
@Haarg	i believe it's due to the code editor	18:05
@preaction	bartjol: upgrade. that was a problem with the code editor adding "\n" to empty items and sqlreport	18:05
+bartjol	aah, upgrading	18:06
+bartjol	ok, well, not a job for this moment	18:06
+perlDreamer	patspam, are you running the latest kernel on ubuntu?	18:06
+patspam	yeah I think so	18:06
+perlDreamer	having any CDROM problems?	18:07
+bartjol	I had mine crash once I believe	18:07
+bartjol	not sure whether that was the cause	18:07
+patspam	I haven't used my cdrom in months!	18:08
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop master * r9d760ee / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SQLReport.pm : don't warn about white space only in SQLReport queries - http://bit.ly/93kdbx	18:08
+bartjol	so, I'm the best you've got perlDreamer	18:08
+bartjol	It was a DVD, not a cdrom btw	18:09
+perlDreamer	yeah, my bad on that. It's a combo drive	18:10
+perlDreamer	it worked fine until this latest kernel upgrade	18:10
+perlDreamer	now I got no tunes :(	18:10
+bartjol	oh, well, my sound worked fine	18:11
+bartjol	with vlc	18:11
@Haarg	it's been years since i listened to music directly from a cd	18:11
+perlDreamer	Haarg, the library would think badly of me if I started ripping their media :/	18:13
@preaction	they don't gots to knows about it	18:15
* perlDreamer is mercilessly honest		18:15
+perlDreamer	besides, I can't read from it, so I couldn't rip it anyway	18:15
@preaction	well there is that	18:15
+bartjol	oh, preaction you know what version that bug was resolved (+/- 2), don't go searching for it, I can do that too	18:19
@preaction	it was in the 7.7 series, near the end i think	18:19
+bartjol	ok, thanks	18:19
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * reee547b / (6 files in 4 dirs): Add drag'n'drop sorting to the Gallery Album Edit View (RFE 11007). - http://bit.ly/bAfv2f	19:54
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * r2023e9c / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed JS comment in head tags. added credits - http://bit.ly/aQpdnw	19:54
@preaction	yay! finally!	19:54
@preaction	stupid rebase causing problems...	19:54
+perlDreamer	nice work, dude	19:56
CIA-104	webgui: Graham Knop webgui-7.8 * r528c0e8 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/SQLReport.pm : don't warn about white space only in SQLReport queries - http://bit.ly/dCZcVW	19:58
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@preaction	kimd: your change didn't get into 7.9.2 because git decided to yank me around (and minor family emergency). but it's merged now	20:03
kimd	preaction, no problem.	20:04
kimd	I actually came to the chat to ask whether I can make changes you requested before merging the patch.	20:04
kimd	Did you modify the code according to your suggestions?	20:05
kimd	Actually, it's only about the ( something ) && do part.	20:06
@preaction	no, i didn't change it, but go ahead and i can pull that commit too	20:06
@preaction	i fixed the JS comment problem though	20:06
kimd	I think I will do next time I add an action to the www_ajax method.	20:13
@preaction	anyone see this 2 in 3 YUI thing? http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2010/03/31/announcing-yui-3-1-0/ <- lets you load YUI2 components and use them inside of YUI3 code	20:15
@preaction	I.E. we could "transition" to YUI3 and keep all our existing code	20:15
kimd	What's new in YUI3?	20:15
@preaction	it's a ground-up rewrite. a better question is "what isn't new?"	20:16
kimd	I mean like "killer features" in you opinion.	20:16
kimd	Well, I certainly cannot judge this. But I like YUI. If there is a better YUI, why not use it?	20:17
@preaction	it's less annoying to code with. the Gallery/Loader	20:17
@preaction	the Gallery is the real killer app. anyone can put a component into the Gallery and then load it from any site using YUI.use('some-component-name');	20:17
kimd	I will check that. Sounds interesting.	20:20
kimd	preaction, thanks for processing my RFEs. I am quite happy with your answers :-)	20:25
+perlDreamer	Haarg: it turns out there is a very good reason not to use override/super	20:26
@Haarg	oh?	20:26
+perlDreamer	if you have an Asset that uses it	20:26
@preaction	kimd: np, i figured i better so you don't end up slacking off and finding another project ;)	20:26
+perlDreamer	you cannot use _that_ module in another module that also super's the same method	20:26
+perlDreamer	so, for example, I just setup indexContent in all modules with override/super	20:26
+perlDreamer	and now, almost no module will compile, throwing this error: Couldn't load class (WebGUI::Definition::Role::Asset) because: Couldn't load class (WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object) because: You cannot override 'indexContent' because it has no super method at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0/Moose/Meta/Class.pm line 315	20:27
+perlDreamer	the bummer is that using override/super saves you some boilerplate code compared to around/orig/self	20:28
@Haarg	can you paste the changes you made that led to that error?	20:29
+perlDreamer	sure, although I did them en masse	20:29
+perlDreamer	and it's mixed in with some spelling typo changes	20:30
+perlDreamer	http://gist.github.com/359164	20:30
@Haarg	weee more code editor bugs	21:02
+perlDreamer	more?	21:04
+perlDreamer	haven't seen any reproducible ones in a while	21:04
@preaction	the "huge file" one	21:10
+perlDreamer	if that's the one in the helpdesk, I couldn't duplicate it	21:14
+perlDreamer	not only that, but the anonymous registration template is not 400 lines long, it's only 35 or so	21:14
+perlDreamer	so I think somebody hit the wrong button in the wrong place	21:14
@preaction	or perhaps its an old version where there were problems? are they on 7.7?	21:15
+perlDreamer	.32, and .33	21:15
+perlDreamer	preaction: if an asset behaves differently based on Asset focus, is that a bug?	21:21
@Haarg	i can't say for certain the thing i'm dealing with is due to the code editor	21:23
@preaction	perlDreamer: Snippet does so explicitly. what's the problem?	21:26
+perlDreamer	Take a Thingy, give it a default thing and set the default view to search	21:27
+perlDreamer	look at the Thingy on a page, and you get a blank search form	21:27
+perlDreamer	look at the Thingy directly, and you get a blank search form, and the results of a search for '*'	21:27
@preaction	that's probably a bug	21:29
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+perlDreamer	In 7.9, it always displays the search results, regardless of the mode	21:40
+perlDreamer	focus	21:40
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* perlDreamer goes for a run		21:52
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@Haarg	patspam, thank you for filter on wgd ls. had to do a mass edit of templates and that made it much easier.	22:27
+patspam	woot	22:27
+patspam	now I only owe you 499 beers instead of 500	22:28
@Haarg	heh	22:28
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CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r8559d7b / Build.PL : move test modules to build_requires - http://bit.ly/9CxgYj	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * rd30e92d / (3 files in 3 dirs): attempt to load help pod from *DATA to allow for fatpacked style script - http://bit.ly/9aFn9o	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r5157294 / (43 files in 12 dirs): use __DATA__ instead of __END__ to allow easier pod access - http://bit.ly/dbC5Ka	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r4cd332f / inc/WGDev/Builder.pm : use fatpack to generate single file dist - http://bit.ly/bEwX39	23:04
CIA-104	wgdev: Graham Knop master * r97421e0 / lib/WGDev/Command/Ls.pm : fix typo in ls command - http://bit.ly/9TxegH	23:04
@Haarg	at one point i wrote up a change to version tag naming to work better with autocommit. another one of those things i probably should have finished.	23:09
@preaction	i'd like to remove the autocommit setting entirely. let the content manager choose if they'd like to save a draft or publish immediately	23:17
* perlDreamer loves autocommit		23:18
+perlDreamer	you can't get rid of it!	23:18
@preaction	instead of clicking Save you'd click Publish, that would autocommit. but you'd have the option to click Save and create a version tag	23:19
@preaction	right now its either On or Off, you don't have a choice	23:19
@Haarg	unless you enable the save and commit button	23:20
@preaction	right, but even then if you enable autocommit in the settings, you've basically overridden the conf (save just autocommits, save and commit does too, wait what?)	23:21
+patspam	is the WUC website supposed to send email confirmation that your proposal was received?	23:43
@preaction	i don't know, but that'd be a good RFE (it's a new feature in the EMS)	23:43
+patspam	ah	23:43
@preaction	it probably will if it gets accepted or rejected (it uses the same content approval system as everyting else i think)	23:44
+patspam	perlDreamer and I were discussing the other day that it'd be awesome if there were lightning talk sessions	23:44
+patspam	we just need to source a gong	23:44
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+patspam	I've submitted Lightning Talks as a WUC presentation proposal so that it's in the mix when the powers that be are deciding on the schedule	23:53
+perlDreamer	a gong is good, because if the talk is bad, we can ring it again	23:59
--- Day changed Thu Apr 08 2010
+perlDreamer	and make the talker fall down into a secret trapdoor	00:00
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, any feedback on the override/super indexContent patch?	00:35
@Haarg	seems rather weird that it would break like that	00:36
+perlDreamer	it does	00:39
+perlDreamer	and it's one that we have to fix	00:42
+perlDreamer	since around has the same problem	00:42
@Haarg	ok, that's very odd	00:44
+perlDreamer	the stack trace from Article is a little cleaner	00:47
+perlDreamer	it reminds me of that run-around issue that I had with running perl -wc Asset.pm	00:47
+perlDreamer	instead of using -mModule -wce1	00:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * ra0253fa / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Remove really old code from the old Rss From Parent asset. - http://bit.ly/9kHV7m	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.8 * r22f1a07 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Remove really old code from the old Rss From Parent asset. - http://bit.ly/d84L0h	00:51
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf01abc4 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Remove really old code from the old Rss From Parent asset. - http://bit.ly/9lwHKK	00:51
@Haarg	perlDreamer, how are you testing the brokenness, just trying to load the Article class?	00:53
+perlDreamer	perl -mWebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Article -wce1 -I/data/WebGUI/lib	00:54
+perlDreamer	but the Test::Class tests fail, too	00:55
+perlDreamer	here's a patch for around, instead of override: http://gist.github.com/359517	00:56
@Haarg	circular dependancies	00:56
@Haarg	WebGUI::Asset use's other stuff	00:56
@Haarg	which use's WebGUI::Asset::Template	00:56
@Haarg	which tries to do around etc	00:57
@Haarg	but Asset hasn't finished loading yet	00:57
+perlDreamer	do we break the circularness by doing require before the other stuff is used?	00:57
@Haarg	probably by changing use to require for a bunch of stuff in asset	00:58
+perlDreamer	and by asset, you lib/WebGUI/Asset*.pm	00:59
@Haarg	i mean either WebGUI::Asset needs to require instead of use WebGUI::Session	01:00
@Haarg	or WebGUI::Session::Style needs to require instead of use WebGUI::Asset::Template	01:00
@Haarg	and doing the same for any other circular dependancies	01:01
+perlDreamer	this works pretty well for Article: http://gist.github.com/359520	01:01
+perlDreamer	and the CS	01:02
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r953df9d / (3 files): Remove a bunch of circular dependencies, based on using WebGUI::Asset::Template - http://bit.ly/cum3sy	01:04
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc786395 / (13 files in 3 dirs): Moose overriding for indexContent. - http://bit.ly/bR2hoM	01:07
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ree725b0 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Moose override for cut (Post only) - http://bit.ly/bF2Jqs	01:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7ba8924 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Moose override for paste (Post only) - http://bit.ly/bMbsAJ	01:25
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+perlDreamer	howdy, elnino!	02:02
elnino	hi!	02:02
elnino	any body have any recommendations for home insurance?	02:04
+perlDreamer	we use State Farm	02:08
* perlDreamer is starting to think that purge should just call purgeRevision, one revision at a time		02:34
+perlDreamer	instead of duplicating the revision cleanup code in both places	02:35
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+perlDreamer	elnino, not to hound you, but do you have any comment on my feedback about last two gallery bugs?	02:44
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CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r616d5cc / (36 files in 6 dirs): Moose overrides for purge, purgeRevision, and purgeCache. - http://bit.ly/9tStAJ	04:31
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd69ed84 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Post.pm : Fix the POST purge override call to super. - http://bit.ly/cedR8l	04:31
elnino	perlDreamer, I just commented on one, but I don't know of another gallery rfe?	04:51
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elnino	found the other.	04:55
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+perlDreamer	thanks, elnino_	05:44
elnino_	np	05:45
elnino_	sorry it took me so long. I'm sure there are many others i haven't responded.	05:45
+perlDreamer	no, just the one labeled album title	05:45
elnino_	ok. i'll look.	05:47
+perlDreamer	http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11489	05:48
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CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12472 /translations/RedNeck/RedNeck/ (5 files): Updating RedNeck on translation server	15:12
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+bartjol	mmm, the upgrade to 7.7.33 didn't do much for empty sql query fields in the sqlreport	16:56
+bartjol	I suppose the upgrade story continues, right after the backup	16:56
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+patspam	morning	16:59
+bartjol	morning	17:02
+patspam	all of a sudden the weather is hot here in ny	17:03
+bartjol	we have nice weather too	17:04
+MrHairgrease	yay for nice weather!	17:05
+bartjol	boo for long backups	17:07
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+bartjol	whoohoo, it is compressing	17:37
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elnino_	good morning!	17:39
+MrHairgrease	Greasings!	17:39
elnino_	when I deploy a package, then make changes to the original (add files/delete files/etc) and repackage it and redloy it,	17:39
elnino_	it's supposed to update right?	17:39
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+bartjol	elnino_: I'm not completely sure about that, it might also be that the url's are "protected" and the next deployment is put next to the old one	17:55
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+perlDreamer	is it safe to run myisamchk on a live database?	18:07
+MrHairgrease	dunno	18:07
+patspam	perlDreamer: ask Socrates- or SynQ	18:10
+bartjol	both not really present I think	18:11
+perlDreamer	the manpage says "take a backup first", so I'm guessing that it is sort of okay	18:11
+patspam	given that it's mysql.. I'd be cautious	18:11
+bartjol	a foresighted man counts as two	18:13
* patspam is excited about the Paris-Roubaix this sunday		18:14
+perlDreamer	bartjol, what is the threshold for including a language with the core?	18:14
+perlDreamer	isn't it 95%?	18:14
+bartjol	oh, well, we talked about that	18:15
+bartjol	and there isn't a definite answer I believe	18:15
+bartjol	the 3 complete language have been put in	18:16
+bartjol	is redneck also complete? I saw a commit	18:16
+perlDreamer	no, just 1 commit	18:19
+perlDreamer	I hope the fellow from Sweden takes on the grueling task of translating WebGUi	18:19
+MrHairgrease	taking it on is the easy part	18:20
+MrHairgrease	surving it with you mind still intact not so much	18:21
+perlDreamer	I think this wiki page needs some updating: http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/translating-webgui	18:21
+perlDreamer	hopefully bartjol, KlausH and SquOnk have rounded off enough corners that newcomers can come out only partially damaged	18:25
+bartjol	MrHairgrease: do you have any comments about the intactness of my mind?	18:25
+MrHairgrease	none that you can understand	18:26
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elnino_	bartjol, oh that would be bad.	18:34
+perlDreamer	bartjol, are you going to let him talk to you that way?	18:34
+bartjol	aah	18:35
+perlDreamer	if I were you, I'd go over to his house, drink his beer and start remodeling his house	18:35
+bartjol	voices!	18:35
elnino_	about the packaging... that is, I have no idea what you guys are talking about.	18:36
+bartjol	well, I never tried it, neither read the code	18:36
+bartjol	so don't put too much value in that statement, I can only see that that would be another option	18:36
+bartjol	eeeh, remodelling martin's house... but marijn will be mad	18:40
+perlDreamer	eh, drink her beer, too.	18:40
+perlDreamer	if she can't keep him under control, she'll have to deal with the consequences	18:40
+bartjol	but colin, I just opened the door, so he could kick it in	18:42
* perlDreamer goes to the gym and ponders additional ways of affecting WebGUI's performance		18:44
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ckotil	webgui uses MyISAM as the default mysql engine, correct?	20:21
+perlDreamer	yes, ckotil	20:22
ckotil	k. im gonna once and for all get all these InnoDB tables out of here. bc it causes me soo many headaches during upgrades.	20:22
ckotil	i must have had the default engine in my.cnf set to innodb when i was running from source before going to the wre	20:23
+perlDreamer	Haarg, I didn't realize how fragile the loading process was.	20:28
+perlDreamer	Using Moose has made this a big problem	20:28
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@Haarg	yeah, the way we've been handling it can be very problematic	20:29
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+perlDreamer	I've spent the last 2 hours debugging stuff just related to Asset.pm	20:30
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+patspam	so how are you supposed to enable a language after installing it? just change a user's language preference?	20:53
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+patspam	never mind	21:04
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+patspam	can I send someone a tgz of a new webgui language?	21:48
+patspam	webgui.svn.org doesn't like me	21:48
+patspam	er	21:48
+patspam	svn.webgui.org neither	21:48
+patspam	i18n.webgui.org doesn't have an "import .tgz" button	21:51
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+perlDreamer	sure, patspam	21:53
+perlDreamer	I can set that up for you	21:53
+patspam	ta :)	21:53
+patspam	email on the way	21:55
* patspam wanders off to get lunch		21:57
+perlDreamer	good idea	21:58
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * rfe2b817 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Search/Index.pm): add 11477: Don't fill in a default synopsis - http://bit.ly/bqcx74	22:42
+perlDreamer	preaction, do we need an upgrade sub to clear out existing default synopses, or a note that people should reindex their site in the gotchas, or anything like that?	22:54
@preaction	good question	22:56
@preaction	i'll write an upgrade sub to reindex the site	22:58
ckotil	im working through the 7.7.18-7.7.19 upgrade, and in the removeOrphanedVersionTags it fails, but doesnt tell you the bad version tags. I think i have a query that would help with that.	22:58
+perlDreamer	hm	22:59
+perlDreamer	we aren't releasing any new 7.7's	22:59
+perlDreamer	but we could always do a community release	22:59
ckotil	i searched the forums for anyone else seeing this problem. but coudlnt find any posts	22:59
+perlDreamer	ckotil: I guess you're just lucky? :/	23:04
ckotil	:)	23:04
ckotil	and the upgrade proceeds. :)	23:10
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell master * r8a9fc6c / docs/upgrades/upgrade_7.9.2-7.9.3.pl : reindex the site to clear default synopsis - http://bit.ly/9mqbdh	23:10
CIA-104	WebGUI: translation * r12473 /translations/ (200 files in 3 dirs): Updating Australian on translation server	23:11
ckotil	http://www.pastebin.org/141866 if your interested in the query	23:15
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+perlDreamer	Haarg: by what process are old translation files removed from the translation server?	23:17
@Haarg	no idea	23:18
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+perlDreamer	I guess that would mean "manually" :)	23:19
--- Log opened Fri Apr 09 12:06:43 2010
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--- Log opened Fri Apr 09 17:43:29 2010
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+patspam	bartjol: it's not my fault australian is similar to american =p	17:53
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+bartjol	but there are definitely missing australian words	17:54
+patspam	heh yeah I like the s/friends/mates/	17:54
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+patspam	I'll work that in	17:54
+bartjol	ok	17:56
+bartjol	You just want to join the l33t group of trnsaltors	17:56
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CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4519f55 / docs/gotcha.txt : fixed gotchas to remove memcached - http://bit.ly/aQP1mQ	18:58
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rb6b5e6c / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Layout.pm : fix deep recursion on getContentLastModified - http://bit.ly/ciujBq	19:13
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@Haarg	morning perlDreamer	19:23
+perlDreamer	morning, Haarg	19:23
+perlDreamer	patspam, I need a resend of your email of this morning, please	19:24
+patspam	oh?	19:24
+perlDreamer	it was nested in between a bunch of spam, and it was accidently deleted	19:26
+patspam	heh your spam filter detects australian content as spam?	19:27
+perlDreamer	no, it was collateral spammage	19:28
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+perlDreamer	perhaps later today I'll whip up a Test::Deep script that tells me just how Australian your translation really is	19:31
+patspam	the output will be: crikey!	19:33
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+perlDreamer	to be precise, "Crikey! This translation is chock-a-block full of little beauties!"	19:49
+patspam	I was disappointed at the limited scope for dropping in slang, we need more colourful i18n source messages	19:53
+patspam	things like: "your submission has been accepted, isn't that fantastic?"	19:54
+patspam	so that we can translate: "yep, got it, bloody ripper!"	19:54
+perlDreamer	patspam: MySQL to MongoDB migration notes: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2010/04/mongodb-experts-model-the-move.html	19:55
+perlDreamer	you can always build a custom translation full of slang	19:55
+perlDreamer	like RedNeck	19:56
+patspam	yeah Andy Oram was at the NoSQL Live conference in boston a few weeks back	19:56
+perlDreamer	patspam, updated translation installed	20:10
+perlDreamer	it could use an SVN commit through the interface to update it	20:10
+patspam	would it be easy for me to get svn access to I don't have to keep bothering you	20:12
+patspam	?	20:12
+perlDreamer	1) it's no bother	20:14
+perlDreamer	2) you'd have to ask those in charge	20:14
* perlDreamer only pawn... in game of life		20:15
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0c00308 / (3 files): Moose overrides in Event, File, Post - http://bit.ly/9zp3yt	20:17
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc35f3b9 / (6 files): Moose subclassing for Asset/*.pm. - http://bit.ly/b04Ccq	20:31
+patspam	in that case..	20:34
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd3a3c4d / (4 files in 2 dirs): Moose subclassing for Asset/File/* - http://bit.ly/bf9lYt	20:36
+perlDreamer	Haarg, preaction, with that last commit, the phrase SUPER has been eliminated from all Assets with the following exceptions:	20:37
+perlDreamer	1) the email y'all haven't responded to yet	20:37
+perlDreamer	2) odd cases when you're calling SUPER::someMethod from someOtherMethod	20:37
+perlDreamer	I'll wait 'til Monday on (1) then I'm going to implement it	20:38
+perlDreamer	on (2), I think I can convert some existing tests to verify how it will work	20:38
@Haarg	patspam, the only issue with giving svn access to translations is i don't remember how the translation server deals with that	20:38
@Haarg	more specifically, i don't think it does, and that can be problematic.	20:39
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+perlDreamer	Haarg, translationServer.cgi, line 431	20:40
@Haarg	well, that's something i guess	20:41
+perlDreamer	I don't know how it handles conflict resolution, but I remember thinking we made the translation server the canonical reference, so that conflicts were dropped in its favor	20:42
@Haarg	yeah	20:43
@Haarg	still less than ideal because it doesn't see the changes until someone tries to change something	20:43
+perlDreamer	definitely	20:44
+perlDreamer	the other thing I remember is that we'd decided to freeze the CGI until two things happened	20:44
+perlDreamer	- we could move it to git	20:44
+perlDreamer	- it was integrated as an Asset to give people karma for translating	20:44
@Haarg	yeah	20:45
@Haarg	moving it to git will most likely be much easier in webgui 8	20:46
@Haarg	well, moving it to git will be much easier if i can use moose	20:46
+perlDreamer	why?	20:47
@Haarg	http://search.cpan.org/~bobtfish/Git-PurePerl-0.46/lib/Git/PurePerl.pm	20:47
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r943ae9f / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Only delete a group if it exists. - http://bit.ly/d8hF6i	21:19
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4210d06 / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Removed unneeded use module line. - http://bit.ly/aWsRke	21:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5399eb2 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataTable.pm : Use the right i18n namespace for DataTable's assetName - http://bit.ly/b6XFKb	21:46
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf36a30f / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Refactor out code to build an asset with a real parent. Add purge tests. - http://bit.ly/9ScPkO	21:47
* perlDreamer goes running		22:03
+patspam	frogwith: ping	22:44
+patspam	er	22:44
+patspam	fordwith: ping	22:44
+patspam	damnit!	22:44
+patspam	can't type	22:44
@frodwith	pastapm: wut	22:44
+patspam	you've been playing with plack?	22:46
@frodwith	nodnod	22:46
+patspam	have you looked at the psgi branch recently?	22:46
+patspam	I've been hacking on it quite a lot this week	22:46
@frodwith	not this week, I haven't	22:47
@frodwith	what've you been up to in there?	22:47
+patspam	the foundation is mostly in place now	22:47
+patspam	yesterday I put in some middleware that opens/closes the session	22:48
+patspam	so that all wG middleware and the wG app itself can just use it throughout the request cycle	22:48
@frodwith	http://search.cpan.org/~frodwith/WebGUI-PSGI-0.2/lib/WebGUI/URL/PSGI.pm	22:48
@frodwith	have you looked at this at all?	22:48
@frodwith	there's some session mddielware in there	22:48
@frodwith	*middleware, too.	22:49
@frodwith	in that dist, anywho	22:49
+patspam	yeah, I saw WebGUI::PSGI::Middleware::Session	22:49
+patspam	I've gotten the basic architecture roughly how I like it (http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/psgi/README)	22:50
+patspam	the next phase is working through the cascading effect on the rest of wG	22:51
+patspam	TODO is at:	22:51
+patspam	http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/blob/psgi/TODO	22:51
@frodwith	this is a wg8 branch?	22:52
+patspam	yep	22:52
+patspam	benchmarks are good too	22:52
+patspam	compared to WebGUI8 anyway ;)	22:52
+patspam	getting close to parity	22:52
+patspam	WebGUI8 is 30 req/s whereas the psgi branch is 23 req/s	22:53
@frodwith	nods	22:53
@frodwith	have you profiled at all?	22:53
+patspam	yeah	22:53
+patspam	really easy to NYTProf it now that there's no more modperl	22:53
@frodwith	curses at modperl	22:54
+patspam	the promising thing is that if you insert a static contentHandler so that only the scaffolding is doing any work, it's actually about 20% faster than WebGUI8	22:54
+patspam	anyway, I could really do with other people hacking on it and adding new ideas	22:55
@frodwith	if you what now?	22:55
@frodwith	this is the part where you convince preaction that I should be paid to hack on this :-p	22:56
* patspam does a jedi wave in front of preaction's face		22:56
@frodwith	running things under a plack server pays dividends in terms of development time alone	22:58
@frodwith	easier to profile, non-buggy changes without restarting the server, other things I'm sure	22:58
+patspam	yeah, perlDreamer is going to have a field day with Plack::Test	22:58
+patspam	I'm most excited about the new deployment options	22:59
@frodwith	have you been following miyagawa's cloud thing? sunaba, is it?	22:59
+patspam	yeah, insane	23:00
+patspam	I guess the biggest props go to dankogai for implementing the sandbox	23:00
@frodwith	ah. I just got a general idea from miyagawa's tweets, haven't look at the implementation or anything	23:01
@frodwith	but running psgi apps in the cloud = awesome.	23:02
+patspam	yeah, I have extreme heroku envy so it's a welcome development	23:03
@Haarg	preaction, do you have any problem with me making WebGUI::SQL a DBI subclass?	23:12
clifmo	should i have apache & mysql installed before installing with wre?	23:25
+patspam	http://www.flickr.com/photos/patspam/4505694655/sizes/o/in/set-72157623692891097/	23:48
@frodwith	>:^)	23:49
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+perlDreamer	clifmo, the WRE will provide apache and mysql for you	00:24
+perlDreamer	you do not need to have it installed	00:24
+perlDreamer	in fact, if mysql is already installed, it can interfere with the WRE	00:24
+perlDreamer	but there are instructions in the wiki on how to handle that	00:24
+perlDreamer	patspam: you're installed again	00:26
+patspam	perlDreamer++	00:28
+patspam	wooh, back to 100%	00:28
+perlDreamer	what's Plack::Test?	00:28
+patspam	http://advent.plackperl.org/2009/12/day-13-use-placktest-to-test-your-application.html	00:30
+perlDreamer	nice	00:32
+perlDreamer	sounds like we could drop WebGUI::PseudoRequest	00:32
+patspam	off a cliff	00:34
+perlDreamer	are you hating on my faux test module?	00:34
+patspam	hehe no	00:35
+perlDreamer	WebGUI8's new assets aren't looking that bad so far	00:56
+perlDreamer	there is some hangup with purging Wiki related assets	00:56
+perlDreamer	...and then I ran the paste test	01:01
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r69904f6 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Tests for cut. Total of 3081 tests so far. - http://bit.ly/axgGaL	01:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r4895b14 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : hm, actually need that WebGUI::Asset::Shortcut thing - http://bit.ly/daYyM2	01:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * racded27 / lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm : Pass myself along as the asset to check for valid parentage. - http://bit.ly/bCrYqW	01:05
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8e946aa / lib/WebGUI/Asset/File/GalleryFile.pm : Fix a typo in getCurrentRevisionDate. - http://bit.ly/dnI1FX	01:13
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra598c13 / lib/WebGUI/AssetClipboard.pm : Do not pass myself off as a parent. - http://bit.ly/de1nug	01:22
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra79f813 / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Add tests for paste. Be sure to setup session->asset for canPaste tests. - http://bit.ly/9ZwOrO	01:22
+perlDreamer	have a good weekend everyone!	01:23
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CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * rf22020c / (7 files in 5 dirs):	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Turned on Debug middleware	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Removed unnecessary $session->close() now that we have WebGUI::Middleware::Session	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Fixed Content-Type bug - http://bit.ly/ccUkvt	01:44
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r2bac95f / (TODO app.psgi lib/WebGUI/Session/ErrorHandler.pm): Mostly decoupled WebGUI from Log4perl - http://bit.ly/d12RlM	01:44
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Mech422	Mech's stupid question of the day - anyone know why this renders with 'no' checked ? :	02:04
Mech422	my $fieldForm = WebGUI::Form::YesNo($session, {	02:05
Mech422	name => "dmn_subscribed",	02:05
Mech422	value => 1, #$var->{'subscribe'},	02:05
Mech422	label => 'subscribed',	02:05
Mech422	});	02:05
@preaction	Mech422: don't do that. use a pastebin.	02:05
Mech422	I've also tried it with defaultValue=>1	02:05
Mech422	preaction: sorry - figured 5 lines was small enough... mea culpa	02:05
Mech422	btw - Image.pm uses -name and -value ?	02:07
@preaction	i don't know what's wrong with the yesno, and i don't know what the question is about Image.pm?	02:08
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Mech422	preaction: I guess the question is - Is Image.pm using the 'wrong' parm names, or are there 2 sets of parms ? ('name', '-name') ? or is one deprecated ?	02:10
@preaction	name and -name are the same, -name is deprecated	02:11
Mech422	ahh cool	02:11
Mech422	on the bright side, the xml comms with iContact work pretty well :-) I thought modperl might get upset about me doing http calls and stuff - but it seems pretty happy	02:14
Mech422	have I just been lucky or is modperl generally considered 'mashup' friendly ?	02:15
CIA-104	webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * ra759848 / (3 files in 2 dirs): initial locationbar commit - http://bit.ly/bpX51h	02:15
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ottoshmidt	I am an absolute noob to webgui, installed from debian package manager and now I don't know how to run it	16:28
ottoshmidt	can anyone help?	16:28
ottoshmidt	Radix_, are you here?	16:30
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Getty	can someone here probably help me?	22:01
Getty	aehm with a catalyst i18n problem...	22:02
Getty	i totally dont get it...	22:03
--- Day changed Mon Apr 12 2010
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r716bdae / (7 files in 5 dirs):	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Added exception handling	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Added error doc mapping	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Moved more logic into Session middleware	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Added Credit example to app.psgi	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Made StackTrace and Debug panel automatically turn on when debug mode enabled	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Fixed errorHandler - http://bit.ly/c80Whv	00:28
CIA-104	webgui: Patrick Donelan psgi * r42c1a8e / (6 files in 4 dirs): Made $session->log->fatal() message pass through - http://bit.ly/9fwfmt	00:29
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+perlDreamer	preaction: do you want me pester you now or later about Location Bar i18n?	05:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r873c07a / lib/WebGUI/Role/Asset/Subscribable.pm : Must return the state of the call to super() in Subscribable's purge. - http://bit.ly/9Ypclk	05:58
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2d4d95a / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Add 1 basic test for canPaste. - http://bit.ly/8Zivih	06:24
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re8d196c / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Produced assets should be refreshed from the db. - http://bit.ly/auFqtm	06:35
@preaction	perlDreamer: later will be fine, since everyone else is already pestering me about something	06:38
+perlDreamer	okay, preaction, when is a good time for you?	06:41
+perlDreamer	Late next week?	06:41
@preaction	try early next year how about?	06:42
@preaction	or the day after i'm fired for whatever it is i do wrong these days	06:42
+perlDreamer	it's gotta be fixed before wg8 release, otherwise my boss will be very upset	06:42
@preaction	yes, yes he will	06:42
@preaction	but i thought we were revisiting i18n entirely	06:42
+perlDreamer	only from an API standpoint	06:42
+perlDreamer	not from the need to make sure that all labels aren i18n'ed	06:43
@preaction	right, but if the API changes, the way i'd get my i18n values would change	06:43
+perlDreamer	no, you'll still make a call through the JS API	06:43
@preaction	it will be i18n, once i convince TMRFE that i'm actually accomplishing something	06:43
+perlDreamer	I thought you were TMRFE	06:45
@preaction	so did i	06:45
@preaction	spooky noise	06:45
+perlDreamer	well, if you're still employed later, I'll pester you about it	06:49
+perlDreamer	unless I'm not employed either	06:49
* perlDreamer gulps and sweats		06:49
@preaction	that is true, then nobody needs to care about anything! yay!	06:49
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+perlDreamer	Guest61322, you can ask WebGUI questions in this channel, whatever your nick is	08:11
CIA-104	webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1593996 / (7 files in 2 dirs): Add better comment rating icons. They still have smiley faces, but they're cleaned and trimmed up. - http://bit.ly/d9M1Il	08:20
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SDuensin	Greetings and stuff.	16:53
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+bartjol	cool stuff?	16:54
SDuensin	Yea, actually. :-)	16:57
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+bartjol	very good	17:16
SDuensin	Just need to get enough coffee in me to deal with SQL today.	17:18
+bartjol	ah, and that is a measure in gallons?	17:21
SDuensin	It may be before this is over. Dredging up old knowledge and trying to make it work again.	17:22
SDuensin	I'm building an app that runs on the web, but I want to have everything needed to test it live in my IDE. So no external web server, no SQL server, etc.	17:25
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+perlDreamer	SDuensin, check out Plack, and Padre	17:59
SDuensin	I don't think they'll do Jack for Java. :-D	17:59
+perlDreamer	dude, if you write it in Java, it's your own fault	18:00
SDuensin	For being productive, it's still my favorite. And with GWT, I use the same language for the entire project - UI and all.	18:00
@preaction	it sounds good on paper, but how does it perform in the Real World?	18:02
SDuensin	Extremely well.	18:02
SDuensin	The new JVMs are FAST.	18:02
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kimd	Hi folks! I would like to get some opinions on RFE #620 (http://www.webgui.org/rfe/request-for-enhancement/gallery-rotate-photos).	20:40
kimd	Should I add buttons for flipping photos?	20:40
kimd	Does that make sense?	20:41
kimd	Or is 90� clockwise and counterclockwise sufficient?	20:41
@preaction	kimd: however you want. the RFE only specifies the CW and CCW, but if you want flip go for it	20:43
kimd	That is I would be allowed to do that?	20:43
@preaction	yes	20:44
kimd	Ok. I will think about it.	20:44
kimd	preaction, perlDreamer, I have another (testing-related) question.	20:45
+perlDreamer	bring it on!	20:45
kimd	I am using the rotate method provided by WebGUI::Storage	20:45
kimd	There is no testing code yet.	20:45
kimd	I would like to add some.	20:46
+perlDreamer	okay	20:46
kimd	Do I have to test in WebGUI::Storage and WebGUI::File::GalleryFile::Photo?	20:46
+perlDreamer	no	20:46
@preaction	just in the Storage one	20:46
+perlDreamer	yup	20:46
kimd	Actually, testing in WebGUI::File::GalleryFile::Photo would catch any error in WebGUI::Storage as well.	20:47
kimd	The coverage would be better. However, testing would be more indirect.	20:47
+perlDreamer	it should be tested at the source	20:47
+perlDreamer	then you can trust that it works there, and everywhere else	20:47
kimd	Ok. I will do it there then.	20:47
@preaction	and it would only test for Photo, not for Image, or any other random class that uses the rotate() method	20:47
@preaction	that's why you should only test the code in the method, not any related methods (it doesn't matter HOW the job gets done, just that it gets done)	20:48
@preaction	this is so later we can completely refactor that method, not use Storage->rotate(), and the tests will still pass (and Storage->rotate() will still be tested, even though we don't use it in Photo anymore)	20:48
+perlDreamer	was that just an example, or would we really support multiple rotate methods?	20:50
kimd	No. The difference is that in the photo asset rotate will rotate all files in storage and re-create the thumbnail.	20:50
@preaction	that's just an example	20:50
kimd	But it uses the rotate method of the storage for individual files.	20:50
kimd	How would I test the rotate method of the photo asset then?	20:51
kimd	I would have to look at pixels of files as well.	20:51
kimd	Or am I missing something?	20:51
+perlDreamer	no, you're right	20:51
+perlDreamer	because you have to check that it was rotated	20:51
+perlDreamer	rather	20:51
+perlDreamer	that every file in the storage location was rotated	20:52
+perlDreamer	so you check to make sure that Storage->rotate does the right thing	20:52
+perlDreamer	and t