| --- Log opened Mon Nov 01 00:00:12 2010 | ||
| @preaction | http://github.com/frodwith/helpdesk-rewrite <- does a lot more sane things | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| @preaction | actually, i lied, it moved to AssetCollateral, which i now think is the wrong thing to do | 00:01 |
| Getty | ah i see | 00:01 |
| Getty | IIIIIHHHHH i see there HTML code in the .pm! AAAHHH ;) | 00:01 |
| @preaction | it's not for core consumption | 00:01 |
| @preaction | yet | 00:01 |
| @preaction | anyway, the dispatch() stuff added in 7.9 is one step in getting away from "only assets have URLs". with proper dispatch method, you could create an MVC framework for assets | 00:03 |
| @preaction | WebGUI::CRUD will be phased out for a better ORM, haven't decided which one yet | 00:03 |
| @preaction | mysql's fulltext search will be phased out for a Sphinx-based solution | 00:03 |
| @preaction | among other things during the 8.x cycle | 00:03 |
| Getty | there is no other choice for a good ORM than DBIx::Class | 00:04 |
| Getty | Rose, Fey, they all are bad designed and bad coded | 00:04 |
| Getty | also DBIx::Class is based on tons of abstracted modules and concepts which are splitted existing on CPAN, so easy to replacable on requirement | 00:04 |
| @preaction | in short: nothing will escape my grasp in making WebGUI something useful | 00:05 |
| Getty | WebGUI is already now useful, IF you get the trick | 00:05 |
| Getty | i worked 1 day with WebGUI months ago when i tested it first | 00:05 |
| @preaction | i'd rather it not be a trick | 00:05 |
| Getty | and i hated it, from the very deep, saw it was too much overloaded and i was unable to get | 00:06 |
| Getty | but yesterday i tested it with "another point of view" | 00:06 |
| Getty | and then i saw it | 00:06 |
| @preaction | 8 is far better so far, but there's more docs and more unravelling that will be going on as 8.x develops. lot of stuff is already deprecated in 8 and 8 isn't even released yet ;) | 00:06 |
| Getty | lol | 00:07 |
| Getty | i will get excited :) | 00:07 |
| @preaction | but yes, 8.x is where i evaluate how assets are made and what ORM to use | 00:07 |
| Getty | DBIx::Class ;) you have no choice ;) | 00:07 |
| Getty | you must see the massive team who works on it, there is even one guy that is nearly 24/7 just working on it | 00:08 |
| @preaction | i know, i've talked with most of them | 00:08 |
| @preaction | mst has expressed both love and hate for DBIC | 00:08 |
| Getty | so why you make it open? ;) | 00:08 |
| @preaction | things change | 00:08 |
| Getty | yeah but so far.... i dont see another option | 00:08 |
| Getty | Rose definitly not | 00:08 |
| Getty | Fey definitly not | 00:08 |
| @preaction | for example: JT thought that Amazon Simple DB (a No-SQL database) would be oodles better for his latest project | 00:08 |
| Getty | IRGS!!!! | 00:09 |
| * Getty runs | 00:09 | |
| @preaction | turns out that mysql is hugely faster | 00:09 |
| Getty | of course | 00:09 |
| Getty | NoSQL is just for... dont know..... "flexible CMS" which have no decent structure | 00:09 |
| @preaction | i personally love the nosql movement, i mean, anyone else remember BDB? | 00:09 |
| Getty | but WebGUI is rocksolid, it doesnt need a flexible base | 00:09 |
| @preaction | nosql has. no. purpose. | 00:09 |
| Getty | i tried the nosql | 00:09 |
| Getty | i was a fan | 00:09 |
| Getty | i worked with it | 00:09 |
| Getty | and then was pissed | 00:09 |
| Getty | every second | 00:09 |
| @preaction | and BDB is already far faster than existing nosql implementations :p | 00:09 |
| Getty | now i only work with DBIx::Class | 00:10 |
| Getty | and make nice tables | 00:10 |
| Getty | make it clean and straight | 00:10 |
| Getty | and switched to postgresql on that | 00:10 |
| Getty | postgresql++ | 00:10 |
| Getty | postgresql++ | 00:10 |
| Getty | its soooooooooooooooooo cool to make tables with it | 00:10 |
| @preaction | that's another reason why i want an ORM | 00:10 |
| Getty | on postgresql you just have: text, int.... i mean | 00:10 |
| Getty | you dont need to thing "varchar? or text? if varchar how many chars?" | 00:11 |
| Getty | its all pointless on postgresql | 00:11 |
| Getty | you just make "text" always, its all the same in postgresql | 00:11 |
| @preaction | well, the ORM would handle that SQL translation for me, instead of writing MySQL, or PostgreSQL, or MSSQL, or whatever | 00:11 |
| Getty | exactly | 00:11 |
| Getty | thats why i asked | 00:11 |
| Getty | so that i can use postgresql | 00:11 |
| Getty | i hate mysql | 00:11 |
| @preaction | eh, it's stupid, but it's damn fast | 00:11 |
| Getty | postgresql is faster, it was not faster some time ago, but its faster definitly since 7.x | 00:12 |
| @preaction | funny enough, a bunch of this WebGUIx code is now exactly in WebGUI 8 | 00:15 |
| @preaction | with different names perhaps, but the same basic code | 00:15 |
| @preaction | and there's a bunch more going in, the www_add / www_addSave, and a bunch of changes to how VersionTag works | 00:16 |
| Getty | so WebGUI 8 is Moose? | 00:16 |
| @preaction | yes | 00:16 |
| Getty | :D | 00:16 |
| Getty | <wank> | 00:16 |
| @preaction | http://github.com/plainblack/webgui/tree/WebGUI8 | 00:16 |
| @preaction | Plack/PSGI too | 00:16 |
| Getty | <morewank> | 00:17 |
| @preaction | and you should check out the AC in 8, you'll probably like it a lot more | 00:17 |
| Getty | AC? | 00:17 |
| @preaction | Admin Console | 00:17 |
| Getty | ah ok | 00:17 |
| Getty | yeah i guess | 00:17 |
| Getty | cause i dont like the 7.x one ;) | 00:17 |
| Getty | i mean its "ok" | 00:17 |
| Getty | its "usable" | 00:18 |
| Getty | but.... i hate it | 00:18 |
| Getty | what i hate most is the "workflow" of the interface (so not the workflow feature) | 00:18 |
| @preaction | the 8 AC is pretty, and far more extensible | 00:18 |
| Getty | lets say i edit an asset, how i come back to the asset editor? | 00:18 |
| @preaction | and much easier to use | 00:18 |
| @preaction | not as easy as i'd like, but webgui is not wordpress or mediawiki. easier to write admin interfaces when you don't have to do everything | 00:19 |
| @preaction | but as the applications we have get respecced and fixed during 8.x, things will change | 00:19 |
| Getty | dont say those words | 00:19 |
| Getty | wordpress | 00:19 |
| Getty | or mediawiki | 00:19 |
| Getty | its like comparing webgui with crap | 00:19 |
| @preaction | they are the top of their class for a reason | 00:19 |
| Getty | not really | 00:19 |
| Getty | wordpress developer would love to switch to perl | 00:19 |
| Getty | but they cant cause there is no standard at all | 00:20 |
| Getty | all wordpress plugins are doing some crap directly to the core | 00:20 |
| Getty | its just a big mess that works by random | 00:20 |
| @preaction | php is a glorified templating language, yes, and i've worked on wordpress "templates" | 00:20 |
| Getty | php is shit, 13 years wasting my time with it | 00:20 |
| Getty | i dont wanna look back even | 00:20 |
| @preaction | yes, but there are things we can learn from the UI and featureset of these programs | 00:20 |
| Getty | that for sure! | 00:21 |
| Getty | sadly | 00:21 |
| Getty | ;) | 00:21 |
| Getty | its so crazy... | 00:21 |
| Getty | think about all that php coder making perl stuff | 00:21 |
| @preaction | drupal, for example, is another one at the top (or at least above webgui). why? i've never even used it, which is a problem for the PM of a CMS to never have used the competition | 00:22 |
| Getty | we would have a language so powerful... | 00:22 |
| Getty | Drupal suxx | 00:22 |
| Getty | so big time... | 00:22 |
| Getty | i used it | 00:22 |
| Getty | i dropped that project than and made my own CMS for this project | 00:22 |
| @preaction | i like their Taxonomy system thing | 00:22 |
| Getty | was faster then implementing the requirements in drupal | 00:22 |
| @preaction | i think i'm gonna steal that part | 00:22 |
| @preaction | i also want Alfresco's site network thing | 00:22 |
| Getty | oh! reminds me..... | 00:23 |
| Getty | if i have several hostnames for a webgui installation | 00:23 |
| Getty | i guess you dont redirect, right? | 00:23 |
| Getty | you just "accept them all"? | 00:23 |
| @preaction | they are all treated equally | 00:23 |
| Getty | yeah... SEO disaster ;) | 00:23 |
| Getty | i need a switch so that he redirects all "not the first one" to the first one 1:1 | 00:24 |
| Getty | so if you access http://bla.de/blub it redirects to http://www.bla.de/blub | 00:24 |
| @preaction | use apache to do that | 00:24 |
| Getty | i dont use apache at all | 00:24 |
| Getty | i mean i could do it in webserver, no problem | 00:24 |
| @preaction | uh, webgui doesn't run under anything but mod_perl | 00:24 |
| Getty | oh?? | 00:25 |
| Getty | dont shock me? | 00:25 |
| Getty | but that is dropped out in WebGUI 8? (i guess elsewhere Plack would be pointless) | 00:25 |
| @preaction | webgui 7.x runs under modperl2 only. 8.x is PSGI, and there you would write a PSGI file that would do the redirecting for you | 00:25 |
| Getty | i hate modperl so much | 00:25 |
| @preaction | welcome to the club | 00:26 |
| Getty | there is a funny bug in it | 00:26 |
| Getty | i dont know if its fixed | 00:26 |
| @preaction | mod_perl is the way to write apache modules in perl, nothing else | 00:26 |
| Getty | if you activate mod_perl in apache | 00:26 |
| Getty | no htaccess is parsed if the path of it is longer than 256 chars | 00:26 |
| @preaction | eh, htaccess is more horrible than mod_perl | 00:26 |
| Getty | yeah but it was funny | 00:28 |
| Getty | i needed mod_perl for a project which was based on it | 00:28 |
| Getty | and then a client called | 00:28 |
| Getty | that his protected area is suddenly open for everybody | 00:28 |
| @preaction | nice | 00:29 |
| Getty | that was my first contact with mod_perl | 00:29 |
| Getty | (pre-my-perl-time) | 00:29 |
| Getty | but its still a fight to explain people that mod_perl is not a solution for something | 00:29 |
| Getty | i cant even imagine what i would need with mod_perl, cause anything that a webserver should be able to is already there as apache module these days | 00:30 |
| Getty | (beside dynamic apache config) | 00:30 |
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| @preaction | being able to write Auth handlers and other stuff in Perl instead of C is nice | 00:32 |
| Getty | yeah but these days HTTP AUTH is already out of date anyway | 00:32 |
| Getty | it makes only tons of problem, is not cascadable anything is shit with it | 00:32 |
| @preaction | it's very useful when it comes to non-browser UAs | 00:32 |
| Getty | i only use it to protect not launched sites | 00:32 |
| Getty | yeah ok, but even that is these day not that complex | 00:32 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:38 |
| +bartjol | ah, don't you have daylight savings? | 15:39 |
| SDuensin | Next week. :-) | 15:39 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Paul Driver master * r7219e21 / (28 files in 13 dirs): Merge branch 'fork' - http://bit.ly/bUKlw8 | 15:45 |
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| +bartjol | howdy perlDreamer | 16:59 |
| +perlDreamer | hey, bartjol | 17:00 |
| +perlDreamer | how are things back east? | 17:00 |
| +bartjol | well, nice sailing yesterday | 17:00 |
| +perlDreamer | is Halloween a holiday that the Dutch observe? | 17:00 |
| +bartjol | I got a rope ober my ceiling to be able to pull electric wiring through | 17:00 |
| +bartjol | well, a bit | 17:01 |
| +bartjol | not very fanatic | 17:01 |
| +perlDreamer | I installed a new sink in the bathroom last week | 17:01 |
| +bartjol | but, to talk wg, I was wondering ehether you agreed with the bug status of http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11938 | 17:01 |
| +bartjol | ooh, sinks | 17:02 |
| +perlDreamer | It is a bug, because there's no reason to remove that state since we didn't set it | 17:02 |
| +perlDreamer | however | 17:02 |
| +perlDreamer | using specialState is dangerous, since WebGUI uses it itself | 17:02 |
| +perlDreamer | so, I'm going to fix the bug because the script should do that | 17:02 |
| +perlDreamer | but you shouldn't either :) | 17:02 |
| +bartjol | be using it for other purposes? | 17:03 |
| +perlDreamer | you said that there was some custom code that used specialState | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | but, wehn I have a really special state | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | ok, we can make another setting, stuff stays similar | 17:03 |
| +bartjol | and settings aren't really included in API, so a bit floating | 17:04 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 17:04 |
| +perlDreamer | it's doable, but risky | 17:04 |
| +perlDreamer | as was found out | 17:04 |
| +bartjol | by antother person than me? | 17:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought you were the other person, I must have misread the bug | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | ok, then I got it correct | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | well, trying strange stuff does lead to bug findings | 17:06 |
| +bartjol | btw, it is for webgui starter | 17:07 |
| +perlDreamer | cool! | 17:14 |
| +bartjol | to be able to block none-paying customers | 17:18 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r85f1531 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't delete the special state unless we set it. Fixes bug #11938 - http://bit.ly/bZj5RN | 17:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol, that's your patch in case you want it now | 17:25 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of tomorrow for the release | 17:25 |
| +bartjol | not in a hurry with it, but thank you very much, now I can compare it with my fix independantly | 17:28 |
| Rainy-D | Googled about surveys, wondered into the blog, finally found the webpage, poked at the wiki, I still don't understand what webGUI is supposed to be. | 17:28 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rc41d898 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : Moving changelog entry to correct version. - http://bit.ly/cWAXkR | 17:29 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1c63a65 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/upgrade.pl): Don't delete the special state unless we set it. Fixes bug #11938 - http://bit.ly/9rzfGM | 17:29 |
| +bartjol | Rainy-D: simply said, it is a CMS | 17:30 |
| Rainy-D | And that is what? | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Content Management System | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it also has lots of applications built in | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | like a survey | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Forum system | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Calendar | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Blog | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | CNN-like story submission and display system | 17:31 |
| Rainy-D | Ah, one of those. | 17:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Project Tracker | 17:31 |
| Rainy-D | I needed a survey for my thesis. Currently I'm poking at anything that says survey. | 17:33 |
| +perlDreamer | if all you want is a survey, it's a bit overkill, but it will work | 17:33 |
| Rainy-D | Yeah, overkill seems to be the case. But I can't do my survey on free accounts on the online survey makers, the questions limits are too low. | 17:35 |
| +perlDreamer | well, in that case maybe WebGUI is what you want | 17:36 |
| Rainy-D | Not as easy to set up maybe but seems to offer more options. I'm so bad at understanding the coding side so I hope UI is easy. Still, I have a month to decide while I form the questions. | 17:38 |
| Rainy-D | Besides, I'm gobbling up a bachelor's in IT, I should be able to figure things out eventually. | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | you know your way around a Unix-like command line shell/ | 17:42 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 17:42 |
| Rainy-D | Some, I failed my unix course. And it isn't a required course so I never put enough effort into it. | 17:43 |
| Rainy-D | I know more dos-box than unix probably... | 17:43 |
| +perlDreamer | The simplest way to set up WebGUI is to buy a site from a hoster. That will run you anywhere from 10-20/month without support. | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | The next easiest option is to use the VMWare image, since it's fully configured from the get go | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | but you have to setup the image and handle the network config | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's free | 17:44 |
| Rainy-D | Wonder if the school would let me set it up on their servers. | 17:44 |
| +perlDreamer | which school is it? They might already by using WebGUI | 17:45 |
| Rainy-D | Oulu University of Applied Sciences :D | 17:45 |
| Rainy-D | In Finland | 17:45 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, I'm not very familiar with the overseas users of WebGUI, but I know we have a Finnish member of the community. | 17:46 |
| +perlDreamer | it's worth checking into | 17:46 |
| Rainy-D | Yes. And we have several sorts of engineers and programmers on our campus so I can find someone eventually if I go this route. | 17:47 |
| Rainy-D | Hmm, your wiki is something interesting. | 17:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not as full featured like MediaWiki | 17:49 |
| +perlDreamer | but we like it :) | 17:50 |
| +bartjol | whoohoo, I got my fork up to date | 17:50 |
| Rainy-D | Too used to wikipedia like layout so navigation needs more tought put into it so I can poke around. | 17:51 |
| +bartjol | the content managers guide is available for download | 17:53 |
| +bartjol | that maybe gives you a first impression | 17:53 |
| +bartjol | also there are at leat3 demo sites | 17:53 |
| +bartjol | so you can get a peek | 17:55 |
| Rainy-D | Sightings page on the home page seems to have lots of examples. | 17:56 |
| +bartjol | that too, not sure how many examples of the survey are in those | 18:02 |
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| +bartjol | kathy, following a course again? | 18:02 |
| dreamersgirl | how'd you guess? :) | 18:03 |
| dreamersgirl | how's life, bartjol? | 18:04 |
| +bartjol | well, good, your husband only doesn fix the way I like to see them :P | 18:05 |
| dreamersgirl | what's he fixing? | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | a bug I reported | 18:06 |
| dreamersgirl | nice. | 18:06 |
| dreamersgirl | i hate bugs. | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | that bug is already fixed | 18:08 |
| +perlDreamer | now, I'm working on the wiring in Bart's new house | 18:08 |
| dreamersgirl | for the whole house or something specific? | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | just some stuff in the ceiling | 18:11 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r04ec757 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make a new storage location when an Event is duplicated. Fixes bug #11937. - http://bit.ly/dd95M3 | 18:20 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * ra72c5b6 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Make a new storage location when an Event is duplicated. Fixes bug #11937. - http://bit.ly/aGtZNG | 18:20 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rd182f0f / (lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm t/Auth/WebGUI.t): add tests and convenience to Auth constructor - http://bit.ly/cI4SUy | 19:18 |
| @preaction | if i were to write a convenience method that will call a deprecated method and throw an info message to the log, where should I put it? WebGUI::Pluggable? | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | no, I'd put it in a one-off module | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | It doesn't belong in Pluggable | 19:22 |
| @preaction | but it will be used in a lot of places, and probably continually | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | but pluggable is for things that have to eval'ed, or use'd | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | it's the wrong idea | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like putting motor oil in peanut butter | 19:23 |
| @preaction | yet it has methods like "instantiate" and "call" | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, it tries to use those things, and evals them | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | has nothing to do with deprecation | 19:23 |
| @preaction | the only "eval" part is the require, call and instantiate then does other magic (in my opinion, poorly, by hiding a standard Perl idiom) | 19:25 |
| scrottie | WebGUI::Object::Attribute::Future::Role::Pluggable::Mixin::Eval::Log::Deprecate::Handler::Manager::Controller::Barf. | 19:26 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rf2ac0bc / (3 files in 3 dirs): Shortcut uses the wrong date for the overridden getContentLastModified. Fixes bug #11935. - http://bit.ly/awXpi8 | 19:27 |
| scrottie | and name all of the variables $data1, $data2, $data3, etc. | 19:27 |
| @preaction | but if not there, then where? | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::Deprecated | 19:27 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * re7d8b76 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Shortcut uses the wrong date for the overridden getContentLastModified. Fixes bug #11935. - http://bit.ly/bxhT5q | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | then, we can find out which modules have deprecated methods easily | 19:27 |
| @preaction | won't be that easy. the Deprecated will be used by the caller, not by the module with the deprecated method | 19:28 |
| @preaction | because the custom plugin won't have that deprecated warning, and it may or may not call the superclass method | 19:28 |
| @preaction | which is why i thought WebGUI pluggable, since WebGUI::Pluggable->call() is what is being used to call the plugin's method anyway | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd wrap the methods that are going to be deprecated, using globs, kind of like a custom debugger | 19:29 |
| @preaction | in all plugins of that kind? | 19:29 |
| @preaction | even the ones we didn't write which may or may not have the same method signature? | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | no, using WebGUI::Deprecated | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | so | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | use WebGUI::Deprecated qw/method1 method2/; | 19:30 |
| @preaction | WebGUI::Auth::MyAwesomeWebsitesAuthPlugin <- how do I wrap those methods? | 19:30 |
| Haarg | it really doesn't sound like something that would go in pluggable to me, but i'm not clear on what you intend for the implementation | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | would wrap those methods in the module that uses WebGUI::Deprecated, then they'd be exported normally | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: that's custom code, they can deprecate their own methods | 19:31 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i'm deprecating an API | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | then deprecate it in WebGUI::Auth | 19:31 |
| @preaction | I can't, because you don't have to call the superclass method. the deprecation warning would be hidden, or worse, it could cause undesired operation | 19:31 |
| @preaction | I have the deprecated method "editUserSettingsForm" and the new better-named method "editSettingsForm". in order to maintain backwards compatibility, I must try to call editUserSettingsForm first, in case the method got overridden. if I do end up calling that, I should spit a message to the log. otherwise I call the new, better-named method | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, changing the name of methods just because you don't like them, and then writing a bunch of code to tell everyone that the name changed is like what we went through with JSON 1.0 to 2.0. That was a nightmare. My opinion is to stick with the name, not matter how bad it is | 19:36 |
| @preaction | we have two methods that are named almost the same that do entirely different things | 19:36 |
| @preaction | so i should also keep "deleteParams" and "deleteSingleParam" instead of a single "delete" method? | 19:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I would keep deleteParams, and have a dummy method deleteSingleParam to glue call back to that | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | because delete is usually delete the object | 19:38 |
| +perlDreamer | not a part of it | 19:38 |
| @preaction | they are kept, but they're deprecated, just as editUserSettingsForm is deprecated | 19:39 |
| +perlDreamer | to me, it sounds like the method of deprecation that has been chosen is worse then the original | 19:39 |
| Haarg | how many places are you going to need this? | 19:39 |
| @preaction | in Auth? 6 or so. during the entire 8.x series? more | 19:40 |
| @preaction | "method of deprecation"? | 19:40 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, please just forget my griping. It's not useful to debate opinions. | 19:41 |
| Haarg | i can think of some games you could play with the symbol table to make it work as something like "deprecate 'oldmethod' => 'newmethod;" | 19:42 |
| Haarg | missed a quote in there | 19:42 |
| @preaction | and that'd get the first bit, making sure either method could be called, but we still have the problem of a subclass overriding and not calling the superclass. that's why i think it needs to be at the interface, not in the module | 19:44 |
| Haarg | i mean that that problem could be solved with symbol table mucking | 19:45 |
| @preaction | even in subclasses? wrapping the deprecated methods as they're loaded using an import() method in the superclass or something? | 19:46 |
| Haarg | you would basically move the method to use the old name | 19:46 |
| scrottie | take a less destructive track than what Acme::CodePolice does. use Tie::File; tie my @fixthem, (caller)[1]; s/deprecatedMethod/newMethod/ for @fixthem; | 19:46 |
| Haarg | then install a new method on the new name that did the checking and called the old name | 19:46 |
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| Haarg | preaction, http://gist.github.com/658623 | 20:05 |
| Haarg | seems to work. not sure if you want that kind of magic though. | 20:06 |
| @preaction | making it easier is always better. my version would have broken if anyone else called the old method without using the proper deprecation warnings | 20:07 |
| @preaction | but if i'm reading this right, it still only occurs when the superclass method is called. but this would work for most instances, and i can do something else for the others | 20:10 |
| Haarg | yeah, it would only warn when the new method name is called | 20:12 |
| Haarg | but i'm not sure how you are doing to create a warning for cases where the old name is used, since that is in custom code | 20:13 |
| Haarg | and yeah if you put it in pluggable->call you could handle that, but only if they are actually using call | 20:13 |
| @preaction | well, it's only an issue in this case because the method is only an interface, there's no functionality in the superclass | 20:14 |
| Haarg | i don't quite see how that makes any difference | 20:15 |
| @preaction | in this case, there is 0 reason to call the superclass. in the other cases, it's more likely they did call the superclass method | 20:15 |
| Haarg | yeah, but that thing i wrote will warn even if they don't call the super class | 20:16 |
| @preaction | oh, then i don't understand what you wrote. would the author have to add this to their code to get the warning? or could I just add it to WebGUI::Auth and any subclasses get this warning ... because I always call the new method, and the proxy method calls the old method if it exists | 20:20 |
| @preaction | and if the subclass doesn't define the new one, the superclass new method gets called | 20:20 |
| Haarg | basically, you would use that in WebGUI::Auth | 20:21 |
| Haarg | as long as you always call it with the new name | 20:21 |
| Haarg | it would call the old method from their code and warn about it if it exists | 20:21 |
| Haarg | or would just run the new method you created if it didn't | 20:22 |
| Haarg | and if they used SUPER in their code, it would call the new method | 20:22 |
| @preaction | right, now i understand it. i'll install it and run the tests | 20:23 |
| @preaction | i love how WebGUI::SQL->quickCSV returns undef if any of the rows fail Text::CSV->combine | 20:50 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r4864a75 / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t): fix 11940: quickCSV chokes on newlines in data - http://bit.ly/bu4iui | 21:41 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r6a7e93f / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : add changelog entry - http://bit.ly/azFH58 | 21:42 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r760c04d / (lib/WebGUI/SQL.pm t/SQL.t): fix 11940: quickCSV chokes on newlines in data - http://bit.ly/9H0xIh | 21:43 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r0017306 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : add changelog entry - http://bit.ly/d0CVxc | 21:43 |
| @preaction | yay! i'm helping! | 21:43 |
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| seriftron | is there an easy way to find a listing of all the possible field types for a wobject? | 22:11 |
| seriftron | i've checked Asset.pm and Wobject.pm. | 22:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | seriftron, the asset's definition is the place to look for that | 22:14 |
| Haarg | field types correspond to WebGUI::Form modules | 22:14 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI::Asset::SomeClass->definition($session) | 22:15 |
| +perlDreamer | or like Haargs said, everything inside of lib/WebGUI/Form | 22:16 |
| seriftron | thanks, perlDreamer & Haarg. i'm just trying to figure out what the possible field types for the fieldType param in a field's definition are, so looks like i should check out WebGUI::Form | 22:16 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 22:17 |
| +perlDreamer | and if there isn't one in there that you need, you can write a custom one | 22:17 |
| +perlDreamer | or there are other options, too | 22:17 |
| seriftron | is there one that would allow a user to browse for a WebGUI page in the content tree and save the URL of that page in the DB? | 22:18 |
| seriftron | thought i'd ask before i look myself... | 22:18 |
| @preaction | WebGUI::Form::Asset | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: does that save an asset, or a URL? | 22:18 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, assetId | 22:18 |
| @preaction | the assetId | 22:19 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r42078c2 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove the $ from the EMS badge template. Fixes bug #11933. - http://bit.ly/bVDO6H | 22:19 |
| seriftron | could easily write a macro to get the URL from assetId, though | 22:19 |
| seriftron | thanks! | 22:19 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r8f31aa0 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove the $ from the EMS badge template. Fixes bug #11933. - http://bit.ly/d9xGOM | 22:21 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r9dfa69e / (2 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade package to the correct location. - http://bit.ly/d8S6bh | 22:21 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r30ce628 / docs/templates.txt : Document the template changes for the Badge Listing template. - http://bit.ly/bBsYVq | 22:23 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5ac6a97 / lib/WebGUI/Form/JsonTable.pm : Remove debug input from JsonTable - http://bit.ly/bnFP81 | 22:32 |
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| @preaction | is it just me, or is the template edit screen broken? | 22:41 |
| xdanger | do you have plans to upgrade to yui3? is there anything new in it thats worth it? | 22:45 |
| Haarg | there's a lot of good stuff in yui3 and there are plans to use it in 8 but switching to it is not a simple task | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I tested template edit last week with no problems | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | but perhaps it's time to try again | 22:51 |
| +perlDreamer | remember, we deleted the code editor | 22:51 |
| xdanger | I'm not finding any short "diff yui2 yui3" article, but it seems that yui3 has some jquery vibe in it. | 22:51 |
| @preaction | xdanger: we would require 2in3, as there are still things in 2 that have no corrolary in 3 | 22:51 |
| @frodwith | eh... it uses a lot of css3 selectors, I wouldn't say that really constitutes a jquery vibe | 22:51 |
| @frodwith | they have very different feels to them :) | 22:52 |
| xdanger | well true, but this Y.one("#x"); feels a little like jquerys $... | 22:53 |
| xdanger | but not much, after I read a little more =D | 22:54 |
| @frodwith | right, you tend to get things with css3 selectors | 22:54 |
| @frodwith | which is one of the key coolnesses of jquery | 22:54 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: i'm looking at a template edit screen | 22:55 |
| @frodwith | but it's still very much yui, so no chaining acrobatics, long namespaced functions, a real widget library (actually YUI3's object heirarchy is very yummy) | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | what are you seeing that's broken? | 22:55 |
| @preaction | the red box is all around the form and clicking Save does not work | 22:56 |
| @preaction | http://beta.webgui.org/demo1288642794_617/default_article?func=edit;proceed=manageAssets <- default un/pw | 22:57 |
| @preaction | http://demo.webgui.org/demo1288640655_665/default_article?func=edit;proceed=manageAssets <- same thing on 7.9 demo | 22:57 |
| +perlDreamer | which browser are you using, preaction? | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | i just did that with FF 3.6 and it works fine | 22:58 |
| @preaction | google chrome | 22:58 |
| @frodwith | <-- same issue in chrome | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, switch to a real browser and see if you can duplicate it | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | so far, we haven't said whether or not we're going to support Chrome for admin functions | 22:59 |
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| @frodwith | "real browser" he says | 22:59 |
| @frodwith | he's a funny guy, he is | 22:59 |
| +perlDreamer | well, how 'bout "one that works"? | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | since chrome doesn't? | 23:00 |
| @frodwith | chrome works great | 23:00 |
| @preaction | but is it a problem with the browser or the page? | 23:00 |
| @frodwith | almost certainly the page. | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I just edited a default template with firefox, and it worked fine | 23:00 |
| Haarg | </div<form | 23:00 |
| @frodwith | just because it works in firefox doesn't mean it's correct | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | no, of course not frodwith | 23:01 |
| @preaction | yeah, the validator just found it. yay! | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | so what have I broken now? | 23:01 |
| @preaction | i got it, no worries | 23:01 |
| Haarg | old bug. surprised it wasn't noticed before. | 23:03 |
| @frodwith | how old haarg? | 23:04 |
| Haarg | september 2008 | 23:04 |
| @frodwith | that can't be right... | 23:04 |
| @preaction | chrome could be fixing errors in tag soup differently now | 23:04 |
| @frodwith | I'm.... fairly sure? i've edited default templates in chrome since then? | 23:04 |
| @frodwith | yeah, that could be. | 23:04 |
| Haarg | or other things were masking the problem somehow | 23:04 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r97020f6 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fix 11941 cannot edit default templates - http://bit.ly/bKpbRD | 23:07 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r68213b4 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset/Template.pm): fix 11941 cannot edit default templates - http://bit.ly/8Xi9YP | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg, how's work on the new translation server? | 23:09 |
| Haarg | stalled. it wouldn't take too long to get working but lacuna has been occupying my time. i had forgotten about it. | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll see about getting the old svn server back up as a stopgap | 23:12 |
| +perlDreamer | or, I could try buying some essentia ;) | 23:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | knowing what you do now | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | Do you ever wonder how bad the code you wrote 5 years ago is? | 23:58 |
| --- Day changed Tue Nov 02 2010 | ||
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r59e848c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm): Don't send i18n values for form controls in www_manageRevisionsInTag. Fixes bug #11926 - http://bit.ly/cR1H0j | 00:01 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r374acc5 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm): Don't send i18n values for form controls in www_manageRevisionsInTag. Fixes bug #11926 - http://bit.ly/9aNyoK | 00:01 |
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| SDuensin | Morning all. | 15:30 |
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| cj | patspam: what version of pspp does your .pm work with? | 20:03 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re66092d / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm t/HTML.t): Anchor words to replace in processReplacements. Fixes bug #11939. - http://bit.ly/cGtypN | 20:29 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r31b80a2 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/HTML.pm t/HTML.t): Anchor words to replace in processReplacements. Fixes bug #11939. - http://bit.ly/dfyiZn | 20:29 |
| cj | what's the function to print info to the log? | 20:42 |
| @preaction | $session->log->{error,warn,info,debug}("message") | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | or, if you like typing, you can also say $session->errorHandler->session->log->warn("lots of typing") | 20:53 |
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| cj | thanks | 22:02 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r6101080 / (docs/gotcha.txt sbin/testEnvironment.pl): Document the new version of Scope::Guard needed for Fork. - http://bit.ly/cJAWto | 23:41 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra90eadd / (37 files in 22 dirs): Merge commit 'bfe9780ce0e0e1f1bde9fee21392fb22c1e0f2b6' into WebGUI8. Merged up to 7.10.3 - http://bit.ly/aGmNJG | 23:50 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb214415 / (34 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade directory to correct version. - http://bit.ly/bw3MMM | 23:50 |
| --- Day changed Wed Nov 03 2010 | ||
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rc67fcf3 / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : Fix merge issue with User.pm. Need to explicitly use WebGUI::Friends - http://bit.ly/978m4X | 00:14 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5bda366 / t/AssetHelper/EditBranch.t : Fix leaky assets in the EditBranch asset helper test. - http://bit.ly/a14R5y | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: we're merged up to 7.10.3, but some of the new tests are leaking assets and tags, which is interfering with other tests | 01:11 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9ad32eb / t/Admin.t : Remove unused module. - http://bit.ly/cOgMYG | 01:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I've fixed some of them, but not all the way done yet | 01:11 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: post a note about it and move on. we should really get to the beta blocking tickets | 01:24 |
| @preaction | which means finalizing the APIs and preparing things for a public preview | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | what about Crud? | 01:26 |
| @preaction | what about it? | 01:27 |
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| xdanger | if I want a small feature in 7.10 do I need to add a rfe first or do I just do a git fork & push it upstream? | 03:06 |
| +perlDreamer | any new features have to be approved as an rfe | 03:09 |
| +perlDreamer | then, do the fork and wait for it to be approved | 03:09 |
| +perlDreamer | it it's approved, and you have commit bit, then push upstream | 03:09 |
| +perlDreamer | note, that all new features have to have good POD and tests | 03:10 |
| xdanger | I'd just like to add a few lines to here and there at the moment | 03:19 |
| +perlDreamer | it still needs to be an RFE | 03:27 |
| +perlDreamer | what are you thinking about doing/ | 03:27 |
| +perlDreamer | ? | 03:27 |
| +perlDreamer | ooh! shiny new progress bar ala frodwith! | 03:32 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rfaff933 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.4 release. - http://bit.ly/98zhQ8 | 03:39 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5efd3af / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.5 development. - http://bit.ly/aftxWr | 04:03 |
| xdanger | perlDreamer: http://webgui.pastebin.com/E210pP3w | 04:15 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | those are all RFEs | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and most of them would require tests | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | each macro item is an RFE | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | the Thingy work looks like one RFE all rolled together | 04:16 |
| +perlDreamer | the URLEncode macro thing is a bug (and it needs tests) | 04:17 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a bug because WebGUI should be UTF-8 safe | 04:18 |
| xdanger | if you encode an url in utf8 it differs from iso-8859-15 encoded | 04:19 |
| xdanger | and some sites only take iso-8859-1 urls | 04:19 |
| +perlDreamer | that's odd | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll be back in a bit | 04:20 |
| xdanger | if you have some umlauts for example in variables | 04:20 |
| xdanger | and by some sites I mean external non-webgui sites | 04:21 |
| xdanger | But I'll work them in to rfe:s and we'll see what you guys say about them =) | 04:22 |
| xdanger | and write maybe some tests for them | 04:22 |
| xdanger | but now I have to go get some sleep | 04:22 |
| xdanger | did they seem like rfe:s that someone else would need or want? | 04:24 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 04:48 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 15:55 |
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| @preaction | wtf is with people having p:hover { background-color: anything } in their stylesheets? who needs the paragraph to change color when you hover over it? | 17:11 |
| +perlDreamer | they think it's better than the <BLINK> tag? | 17:16 |
| SDuensin | I personally prefer the BLINKing MARQUEE. | 17:16 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, I can recommend a good counselor | 17:18 |
| @preaction | http://www.swisstrains.ch/ <- this is awesome | 17:46 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah it is | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll have to show that to the boys | 18:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | howdy bartjol! | 18:32 |
| +bartjol | howdy | 18:33 |
| +perlDreamer | JT wasn't elected president, governor, senator, representative, mayor, councilor, ombudsman or in any other position | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | it's sad | 18:38 |
| @preaction | our write-in campaign failed :( | 18:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I also had to give Peter the bad news about the new Wisconsin governor | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | not only is he anti-train, but he's pro-Joomla | 18:39 |
| @preaction | trains are bad, mmmkay. they take jobs away from the car makers | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | we like car makers? | 18:40 |
| +bartjol | what, he didn, strange | 18:41 |
| +perlDreamer | oh boy, holy maintenance Batman! | 18:47 |
| +perlDreamer | just merged and pushed for review, expect brokenness | 18:48 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfaff933 / docs/create.sql : Preparing for 7.10.4 release. - http://bit.ly/a7AcdD | 18:48 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5608c2 / (34 files in 2 dirs): Move upgrade dir to correct version. - http://bit.ly/aubOYa | 18:49 |
| +bartjol | oh, you want me to upgrade witto 7.10 for test? | 18:56 |
| +bartjol | just reinstalled a computer, because the kernel was to new for the application... next time better research | 18:57 |
| +bartjol | perlDreamer: I already see a release, is that one broken? | 18:59 |
| +bartjol | 7.10.4 | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | 7.10.4 is fine, it's the new WebGUI 8 commit that I just made | 18:59 |
| +perlDreamer | the new Fork API may not have merged correctly | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm running tests now | 19:00 |
| +bartjol | ah | 19:01 |
| +bartjol | mmm, monkey-patch | 19:05 |
| @preaction | http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/11/make-your-websites-run-faster.html <- should we add this to the last 0.9 WRE? | 19:11 |
| +bartjol | is there going to be a new 0.9 wre release then? | 19:13 |
| +bartjol | i like that | 19:13 |
| @preaction | there will be one final 0.9 release for the 7.x series of WebGUI, then a 1.0 release for the 8.x series | 19:13 |
| @preaction | though maybe we should call it WRE 8.0 to correspond to the same WebGUI version? | 19:14 |
| +bartjol | wre sticky, as plakerigis sticky in Dutch | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | mod_pagespeed wouldn't work with WRE 8 anyway | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | since it uses plack | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | but there will be middleware soon, I bet | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yeah, WebGUI 8 go boom | 19:15 |
| +bartjol | mm, still have to update to latest 8 on my laptop before saturday | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I would hold off at least today | 19:17 |
| +perlDreamer | I broke a lot of things with that last merge | 19:17 |
| +bartjol | well, haven got my laptop here now | 19:17 |
| @preaction | right, but it'd be nice for the 0.9 WRE, as i've always said we should give 7 a good sendoff, as once 7.10 goes stable people may not upgrade for a while | 19:17 |
| +bartjol | well, speed improvements would be nice | 19:17 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r3f49d25 / sbin/testEnvironment.pl : Document minimum version of HTTP::BrowserDetect needed for mobile method and recent browsers. - http://bit.ly/bpksPB | 19:30 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r10b832b / (lib/WebGUI/Form/HTMLArea.pm lib/WebGUI/Session/Style.pm): Fix mobile browser detection. - http://bit.ly/9144np | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I want to float an idea past you | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI is so big, I think it needs lieutenants in charge of sub-parts | 19:30 |
| @preaction | who? | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | there's you and me, and... | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 19:31 |
| @preaction | exactly, though I agree completely with your idea | 19:32 |
| @preaction | which is why I want there to be a smaller "Core" webgui, a "Base" set with some assets, and a "Full" set with everything | 19:33 |
| @preaction | then we can have someone responsible for Core, someone for the additions in Base, and someone for the additions in Full | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | you need to go back to blogging all this stuff | 19:33 |
| +perlDreamer | because that's a great idea | 19:34 |
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| @preaction | Base would have only Template assets, Layout assets, Articles, Snippets, Files, Images, and Folders, everything else would be in Full | 19:35 |
| @preaction | then you could eventually do: cpan install Bundle::WebGUI::Core or something like that | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | well, and if we worked hard enough, I think we could replace Spectre with Fork | 19:49 |
| @preaction | except for the cron bits | 19:49 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we could do the cron bits, too | 19:50 |
| @preaction | the fork would have to happen immediately | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | there would have to be some kind of lock, yes, so that multiple children don't fork to get a cron process | 19:51 |
| @preaction | no, the fork would exist only to check the time | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | a spectre-less WebGUI would look very attractive to cheap shared hosting | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | between that, and local::lib... | 20:04 |
| @preaction | in theory we could already use WebGUI::Fork to fork off a spectre process | 20:05 |
| @preaction | so the whole thing is the same, just Spectre starts with webgui | 20:05 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rbd48b97 / t/AdSpace/Ad.t : Cleanup the AdSpace created for testing. - http://bit.ly/d4z97R | 20:36 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r53280ba / t/Asset/Wobject/StoryArchive.t : Cleanup a test merge. - http://bit.ly/avAMsb | 20:36 |
| @preaction | "We need to be able to grant view rights to multiple groups for any single asset" <- how long do you think that will take to make? | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | 0 time | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | make a group that contains them all | 21:10 |
| @preaction | that's not what they want there. that's an inefficient way to do things, really | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's 0 cost. You can have it now, for free | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, it's ugly | 21:11 |
| @preaction | i'd like a UI element that allows you to pick users and groups and makes a group based on those users and groups, that'd be awesome | 21:11 |
| @preaction | but yes, i'll present both options. they'll probably go with the no-cost one | 21:12 |
| * perlDreamer wanders off for lunch | 21:12 | |
| @preaction | ooh, I also get to improve how dashlets work! | 21:15 |
| ckotil | preaction: i was quoted ~$3K for that very feature about 3 years ago :) | 21:15 |
| @preaction | which one? the multiple groups one? | 21:16 |
| ckotil | ya | 21:16 |
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| @preaction | yeah, that sounds about right, considering how it will affect every single asset and most other things in WebGUI | 21:16 |
| ckotil | quote # 10119 | 21:16 |
| @preaction | though 3 years ago our test coverage was far lower | 21:17 |
| ckotil | $2,300. sorry. | 21:17 |
| ckotil | would have been a neat feature. | 21:18 |
| @preaction | well, someone else may fund it now | 21:18 |
| ckotil | but as it is, we're getting by using groups of groups groups of.etc... | 21:18 |
| ckotil | nice. | 21:18 |
| @preaction | and those work just fine, and that's actually how it would work on the backend, the group would show up in the list "Group to view <asset title> <assetId>", and you'd be able to edit it from either interface | 21:19 |
| @preaction | heck, the Group Manager would probably use the same interface, that thing needs an overhaul anyway | 21:19 |
| @preaction | all our interfaces do :( | 21:19 |
| @preaction | but these guys want dashlets more than they want the multiple groups thing, i'll bet | 21:20 |
| @preaction | damn do i hate dashlets... not enough done to make it sane yet, but then nobody uses it so i can see why | 21:22 |
| ckotil | We've beent talking about useing it for a long time. We just need more integration with internal tools before we move forward with it | 21:23 |
| @preaction | well, maybe we'll have something far more useful. right now there's evil Shortcut hackery | 21:23 |
| ckotil | shortcuts proved very useful recently. we had to expose a lot of documentation to whole new set of users. rather than duplicating the content , the shortcut asset worked like a charm | 21:24 |
| @preaction | oh yes, in that regard, and with overrides, the shortcut is awesome, but it has two hacky bits: | 21:24 |
| @preaction | Shortcut By Metadata, and the Dashboard Integration | 21:25 |
| cj | how do I get the logger to print a stacktrace along with messages? | 21:48 |
| @preaction | edit log.conf to add %n%T to the log format | 21:48 |
| @preaction | %n adds a newline, %T the stack trace | 21:48 |
| cj | super. thanks! | 21:49 |
| @preaction | i usually then add %n%n to the end, so it's obvious where the breaks are | 21:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | TGC needs to stock these: http://click.email.thinkgeek.com/?qs=d8dfacdff5b6f132ec3f575d5eb9addba21c63db90026eb1ccb471aedbb3590f | 22:01 |
| @preaction | yes! | 22:02 |
| * perlDreamer heads over to the ideas board | 22:04 | |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r50a9dd0 / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : Begin moving Fork over to the new Session API. Tests are still failing. - http://bit.ly/cSAzfx | 22:23 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rf5764b0 / (lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm t/Fork.t): Update Fork to work with 8. All tests passing. - http://bit.ly/9kuPSb | 22:23 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: take a look at this please: http://gist.github.com/661649 | 22:27 |
| +perlDreamer | that happened during a test | 22:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm going to see if it's repeatable | 22:27 |
| +perlDreamer | it's way odd | 22:27 |
| * perlDreamer is off to pick up kids | 22:34 | |
| @preaction | that is weird. it should be $^O not ^O() | 22:40 |
| cj | scrottie0: 19:48 <@preaction> edit log.conf to add %n%T to the log format | 22:50 |
| scrottie0 | forgot I was here... didn't fire xchat back up when X crashed. | 22:51 |
| scrottie0 | nice. | 22:51 |
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| cj | perlDreamer: let me know when you're back. :) | 23:20 |
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| --- Day changed Thu Nov 04 2010 | ||
| * perlDreamer is back | 00:26 | |
| @preaction | learned a new trick: using graham's WebGUI::Deprecate, you cannot deprecate a method in a subclass that is already deprecated in the superclass. causes infinite recursion! | 00:30 |
| @preaction | otherwise, the WebGUI::Deprecate works awesome! | 00:31 |
| +perlDreamer | infinite recursion. Now, if only we could harness the power of that, we could throw away these faulty zero-point field generators. | 00:35 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r2685352 / t/SQL.t : Fix number of tests in SQL.t - http://bit.ly/c2OPPv | 00:39 |
| @preaction | ooh, a problem: the superclass overrides the new method, but the caller calls the old method, which only seems to call the superclass's new method. i have to redispatch instead | 00:44 |
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| Haarg | superclass overrides new? not sure i understand. | 00:56 |
| @preaction | Auth has www_displayLogin. Auth::WebGUI has www_displayLogin. Caller calls "displayLogin", but only Auth->www_displayLogin seems to get called | 00:57 |
| Haarg | i'd have to see the actual code i guess | 01:01 |
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| @preaction | Haarg: checkout https://github.com/preaction/webgui/tree/8 and run t/Operation/Auth.t | 01:14 |
| @preaction | test 7 fails | 01:14 |
| @preaction | now, i could make an argument for more of the WebGUI::Auth superclass to take over from WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI, but it'd be better to fix this | 01:15 |
| @preaction | it seems like Deprecate should do something like $self->$new_method(@_) somewhere | 01:30 |
| @preaction | but using it as the replacement for oldmethod doesn't work | 01:30 |
| Haarg | why? | 01:30 |
| Haarg | the code should probably be a bit clearer in what it is trying to do | 01:31 |
| @preaction | so it gets redispatched to the top of the inheritence tree, instead of only at the exact place you call deprecate | 01:31 |
| @preaction | putting deprecate in the subclass as well causes an infinite loop | 01:32 |
| @preaction | either that, or the proxy method should inject into $self's package | 01:34 |
| Haarg | why do you want to have deprecate in the subclass as well? | 01:34 |
| @preaction | i don't want to, it's just the subclass was fixed, but now the API is broken | 01:35 |
| @preaction | i was just trying things to try to fix it | 01:35 |
| Haarg | lib/WebGUI/Operation/Auth.pm line 85 or s | 01:39 |
| Haarg | o | 01:39 |
| Haarg | how did that ever work? | 01:40 |
| Haarg | or oh i guess i'm dumb | 01:40 |
| @preaction | yeah, sorry, the test is really failing because there's a LoginBox macro in the page, which calls displayLogin, not www_displayLogin | 01:40 |
| Haarg | www_view calls displayLogin as well | 01:41 |
| @preaction | ooh, missed that one | 01:41 |
| Haarg | i'm still missing something though. can you describe how the method is getting called and how it is failing? | 01:42 |
| @preaction | LoginMacro or WebGUI::Session::Privilege is calling WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI->displayLogin; that doesn't exist anymore, so it goes to WebGUI::Auth->displayLogin... | 01:43 |
| @preaction | deprecate displayLogin => 'www_displayLogin'; creates the proxy method for displayLogin, and now we've got something to call | 01:43 |
| Haarg | ok i get it now | 01:44 |
| @preaction | now, of course i'll fix the erroneous call to displayLogin, but core's probably not the only one doing it | 01:44 |
| Haarg | and the whole point is to keep it backwards compatible | 01:45 |
| @preaction | right | 01:45 |
| @preaction | so the warning in there is good, but there needs to be something else to say "dude, you called the wrong thing, dingbat" | 01:45 |
| +perlDreamer | throw an exception? | 01:46 |
| @preaction | it's deprecated, not discontinued. can't throw yet | 01:47 |
| @preaction | though i imagine 9.0 will add "discontinue" to the mix, throwing nice exceptions when calling old methods | 01:47 |
| @preaction | uh... wtf it started working now that www_view was fixed | 02:02 |
| @preaction | because the test isn't correct, WebGUI->www_displayLogin is not being called before Auth->www_displayLogin still | 02:03 |
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| Haarg | preaction, i have a new deprecate thing that works better hopefully | 02:08 |
| @preaction | ok | 02:08 |
| Haarg | no warnings yet, so let me get that done and we'll see how it goes | 02:09 |
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| Haarg | preaction, http://gist.github.com/661936 | 02:19 |
| Haarg | needs its own tests really | 02:19 |
| @preaction | i can handle that | 02:20 |
| Haarg | and i didn't finish the docs obviously | 02:20 |
| Haarg | i really wish you could localize lexicals | 02:20 |
| @preaction | this looks like something that could be released on CPAN, honestly | 02:21 |
| Haarg | maybe, although it only works for methods | 02:22 |
| @preaction | eh, so call it dep_method or something, and have dep_sub | 02:23 |
| @preaction | though wouldn't dep_method call dep_sub in the end? | 02:23 |
| Haarg | deprecating subs would just be adding the alias with the warning | 02:25 |
| @preaction | Haarg: all works beautifully now, after i fixed the broken parts of the test and fixed stuff the new deprecate revealed i had missed. thanks | 02:44 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r5a2d4d8 / (7 files in 3 dirs): change to www_ methods everywhere - http://bit.ly/bP0TBL | 02:44 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf515d85 / (5 files in 4 dirs): fix tests for www_auth. fix deprecate for callers - http://bit.ly/cvFdWc | 02:44 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r5e5e65c / lib/WebGUI/ProgressBar.pm : AssetHelper dialogs close properly now - http://bit.ly/aGRxp9 | 16:32 |
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| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 18:15 | |
| +perlDreamer | so that someday, I can beat bartjol in an arm wrestling match | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | eeeh | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | that won't be hard | 18:16 |
| @preaction | yay! Auth done! now for more documentation | 19:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | and tests! | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | don't forget the tests | 19:20 |
| @scrottie | who is sending sig TERMs to my httpd and how do I make it stop? | 19:21 |
| +bartjol | perlDreamer: did you repair that wg8 feature tou introduced yesterday? | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, look at the wremonitor perhaps? | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol: WebGUI8 is good | 19:23 |
| +bartjol | ok, then I can use it to show people saturday at T-Dose | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie, you could also be suffering from Apache2::SizeLimit problems, so try upping the limits in modperl.pl | 19:24 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: tests were first on the list | 19:25 |
| @preaction | auth is still wonky though. there's things that the superclass do that only really apply to WebGUI::Auth::WebGUI and no other auth module ever | 19:26 |
| -!- bartjol [~bartjol@kantoor.procolix.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 19:30 | |
| +perlDreamer | and why exactly do the proximity of "Auth" and "wonky" surprise you? | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 19:30 |
| @preaction | because i thought i could fix most of it and write some coherent, easy-to-follow docs. i was wrong. | 19:31 |
| @preaction | no, wait, i'm right. i can, but i have to go higher | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | Auth -> toilet -> sewage -> fields -> compost -> fertilizer -> Auth2 | 19:31 |
| @preaction | because there's really only one www entry point, www_view (formerly init) | 19:31 |
| @preaction | i figure if i can get people to look at it differently, and write better auth subclasses, it won't matter what i do to break it during 8.x | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | what you're doing is pretty new | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | we just broke the Asset API outright | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | and told people how to convert | 19:36 |
| @preaction | right, but asset wasn't the most egregious problem. that honor goes to Auth and Operation | 19:37 |
| @preaction | hm... should auth methods be configured in the config file? i can't think of any reason to have, for example, the twitter API key in the website | 19:39 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * re128c04 / (docs/migration.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm): fix User deprecations - http://bit.ly/9WiatX | 19:41 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r1cebfdd / lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm : fix Auth docs - http://bit.ly/ddxBm7 | 19:41 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4edaf02 / lib/WebGUI/Auth.pm : add more docs to Auth - http://bit.ly/9YBaLe | 19:41 |
| +perlDreamer | the only reason I can think of to have it in the website is so people can add it on the fly | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | rather than needing to have command line access to add it | 19:42 |
| +perlDreamer | well, and it's more work to add it to the UI than add it to the config file | 19:45 |
| @preaction | right, so like i want to do for Admin plugins, we should have both | 19:45 |
| @preaction | admin plugins have config file, but not a hook for the settings form | 19:45 |
| @preaction | and we need to reevaluate the hugeness of the settings and reorganize it a bit | 19:45 |
| @preaction | an accordion menu instead of a tabview, perhaps | 19:46 |
| @preaction | yay! i'm unravelling www_editSave into something COHERENT! | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:48 |
| @preaction | then all we've got is the issue tracker and we're done! | 19:48 |
| +perlDreamer | not sure I followed you on that one chief | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | do you migrating it to WebGUI 8 | 19:50 |
| @preaction | all the tickets on the issue tracker for 8 | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 19:50 |
| @preaction | no, this is 8 | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | oy | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll need to do that, too though | 19:51 |
| @preaction | www_add and www_addSave now, instead of www_editSave handling both | 19:51 |
| @preaction | huh? | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | any custom code for webgui.org needs to be migrated over | 19:51 |
| @preaction | oh, yes | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | KarmaGifter, macros, anything else | 19:51 |
| @preaction | that'll be our time to test the docs/migration.txt | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | btw, I have "functioning" Crud code | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | where functioning ~~ 40% | 19:52 |
| @preaction | we just need something to limp along with while we move to a better one | 19:53 |
| @preaction | i've been told DBIC is my only option, by certain interested parties | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | certain interested parties with long chin hair and arched eyebrow? | 19:53 |
| @preaction | no, Getty | 19:57 |
| +perlDreamer | weren't you favoring Fey::ORM? | 19:58 |
| @scrottie | I remember back in the old days when Perl was both far more popular and cool, and *also* less fad obsessed. | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, less fad obsessed | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | like NNTP clients | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | IRC clients | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | CGI | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | external interface of the day | 19:59 |
| @scrottie | no one ever said, "you _must_ use this one NNTP client or else your code sucks" | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | no, we just said, you have to use Perl or your code sucks :) | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | and sometimes, their code sucked anyway | 20:00 |
| @preaction | i'm not an idiot, i will attempt to make what i want to with an ORM before i choose which one | 20:01 |
| @preaction | i want a basic CRUD webgui app, whichever one makes a better, more extensible one, wins | 20:01 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r4bb4dce / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : add WebGUI::Deprecate line - http://bit.ly/9Y4eIw | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I could use some Moose sugar help from the assembly | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | this is for the Moose based Crud | 20:18 |
| +perlDreamer | I setup "define" methods for tableName, which was good | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I also used define for tableKey and sequenceKey | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | It would be sugary to create those methods in the consumers namespace, instead of making them declare it twice | 20:19 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * rf14545e / lib/WebGUI/User.pm : only warn once on deprecations - http://bit.ly/c1fj58 | 20:20 |
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| seriftron | Hey, question about WebGUI::Form::Asset (the asset browser). Is it possible to set a starting path for this control that the asset browser starts at? | 20:37 |
| seriftron | Don't see anything in the docs about it... | 20:37 |
| @preaction | yes, look in the definition sub | 20:38 |
| seriftron | Awesome | 20:38 |
| @preaction | er... maybe you have to give it a value | 20:38 |
| seriftron | Hm, I just see label, name, and class | 20:41 |
| @preaction | yeah, you might just have to give it a value | 20:44 |
| @preaction | also, that form control is going to get redone, as it sucks really really badly | 20:45 |
| seriftron | Eh, it does what I need to in this case, but good to hear! | 20:47 |
| @preaction | i like how windows' new explorer works | 20:49 |
| @preaction | or the slide-view from OS X | 20:49 |
| seriftron | The asset icons would be helpful to see beside the file names (like on the main asset tree) to make it easier to browse | 20:52 |
| @preaction | yes, have it all be JS would be nice too, faster | 20:55 |
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| Getty | preaction: what?! :-) | 21:33 |
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| knowmad | preaction: Howdy! I'm trying to get Cache::FastMmap running using CHI and WebGUI 7.9.14. However, I'm getting errors in my logs. See http://webgui.pastebin.com/u1FWvx1W | 22:37 |
| @preaction | sudo rm -rf `perldoc -l Linux::Smaps` <- i assume you're on a redhat derivative? | 22:38 |
| knowmad | Looks like the web server doesn't have permission to modify the file (it's read-only) | 22:38 |
| knowmad | actually, i'm on ubuntu | 22:38 |
| knowmad | It looks like Linux::Smaps is shipped with perl. | 22:39 |
| @preaction | it might be that the kernel isn't allowing non-root to read that file, as it may contain sensitive info. there's a future patch that allows the process to read its own smap, but for now your best bet is to just delete Linux::Smaps | 22:39 |
| @preaction | nope, not in core Perl. is in the WRE though | 22:40 |
| knowmad | cool, thanks | 22:40 |
| knowmad | ok | 22:40 |
| @preaction | is this still your 64-bit box you compiled the WRE on? | 22:40 |
| knowmad | yep | 22:40 |
| knowmad | i've also got CHI running on a 32-bit box | 22:40 |
| knowmad | ubuntu | 22:40 |
| knowmad | i'm going to check if we're seeing the same issues there; it's a more recent kernel than the 64-bit box | 22:41 |
| knowmad | brb... | 22:41 |
| knowmad | should my modperl processes be getting bigger as a result of using CHI? | 22:42 |
| knowmad | i'm seeing lots of errors about SizeLimit killing off processes | 22:43 |
| knowmad | looks like Cache::FastMmap is behaving nicely under 32-bit Ubuntu | 22:45 |
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| @preaction | your processes will appear to get bigger because of FastMmap | 22:50 |
| @preaction | but you should only have to increase Max_Shared_size | 22:51 |
| knowmad | ok, i'll try that | 22:55 |
| knowmad | is that the same as $Apache::SizeLimit::MAX_PROCESS_SIZE = 10000; # 10MB | 22:56 |
| knowmad | actually, i'm showing the UNSHARED size also dramatically increasing | 22:57 |
| knowmad | wonder if that's a 64-bit issue... | 22:57 |
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| scrottie0 | stuff that doesn't get mmap'd in but instead was already there before a vfork is non-shared. mmap'd in memory isn't shared in the same way, even though it is shared... it isn't copy-on-write memory from the parent process. | 22:59 |
| scrottie0 | too many negatives. I botched that. | 23:00 |
| scrottie0 | stuff that *was* there before a vfork is shared. | 23:00 |
| scrottie0 | stuff that wasn't there before a vfork isn't considered shared, even though it might actually be. | 23:00 |
| knowmad | so does the mmap stuff get loaded before or after forking? | 23:00 |
| scrottie0 | after. | 23:00 |
| knowmad | so that's why it's increasing my unshared size? | 23:01 |
| scrottie0 | that's a pretty good guess. | 23:01 |
| scrottie0 | you can dig around in /proc for more details... | 23:01 |
| knowmad | that makes sense; so the more clients I setup under fastmmap, the bigger my share will get | 23:01 |
| knowmad | s/share/mem usage/ | 23:01 |
| scrottie0 | maybe. | 23:02 |
| knowmad | looking at my logs i see that the shared memory is small (3844Kb) | 23:02 |
| scrottie0 | re: /proc. | 23:02 |
| knowmad | unshared is huge (370000Kb) | 23:03 |
| knowmad | ok, thanks for the info; i'll keep an eye on it | 23:04 |
| knowmad | glad to have the Smaps errors removed | 23:04 |
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| @preaction | okay, so it's technically shared, as it's mmap, but it's reported as unshared | 23:04 |
| @preaction | fun | 23:04 |
| scrottie0 | you can mmap in "anonymous" memory that can't be shared... you can mmap in a file that another process may or may not also mmap in... | 23:06 |
| @preaction | ahh | 23:06 |
| knowmad | Ok, i've had enough fun with memory for the day | 23:06 |
| scrottie0 | I've had enough fun with the wre for the day =| | 23:06 |
| knowmad | going to enjoy the rest of my b'day! thanks guys... | 23:06 |
| scrottie0 | no sh!t. knowmad++. | 23:06 |
| knowmad | ++ indeed | 23:07 |
| @preaction | sheesh, get out of here and have fun | 23:07 |
| knowmad | later | 23:07 |
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| scrottie0 | knowmad+=33264000 | 23:07 |
| +perlDreamer | he could use that for more memory! | 23:07 |
| * scrottie0 ponders `more /proc/6595/task/6595/stat` for one of the httpd processes | 23:09 | |
| +perlDreamer | what kind of wre problems are you having, scrottie0? | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | yay! crud progress | 23:18 |
| scrottie0 | wremonitor always telling me that starting modperl failed. too low of a memory limit. coredumps in an XS module built against the wre perl. no diagnostic output when mysql fails to start with wreservice.pl --verbose --start mysql. | 23:23 |
| scrottie0 | a far more obnoxious program has been drawing my ire lately though. | 23:24 |
| scrottie0 | this bit of free software failed on startup with a sanity check about word size when built on 64 bit linux. so I built it on 32 just in case somehow the 64-bit-iness was leaking over. it still failed the same check. | 23:25 |
| scrottie0 | one the deps is a specific commit of a library. | 23:25 |
| scrottie0 | the docs are circular and avoid at all costs giving examples. | 23:26 |
| scrottie0 | wre did some other stuff that pissed me off too. i just don't remember right now, having been distracted by this other p.o.s. | 23:28 |
| +perlDreamer | wre diagnostics leave a lot to be desired, for sure | 23:55 |
| --- Day changed Fri Nov 05 2010 | ||
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| elnino | hello all! | 05:14 |
| elnino | bye all! | 05:21 |
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| SDuensin | FrIdAy! | 15:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | yay, got the entire test to run | 17:06 |
| +perlDreamer | for 8's new Crud | 17:06 |
| +perlDreamer | now, if only they all passed... | 17:06 |
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| @preaction | yay! | 17:15 |
| +bartjol | scope is important in perl.... | 17:17 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol: indeed | 17:18 |
| +bartjol | and, Koen is father of a boy! | 17:19 |
| +perlDreamer | hurrah! | 17:19 |
| +bartjol | Huub, and I'm not gonna try to let you pronounce that | 17:19 |
| +perlDreamer | does the boy have a name? | 17:19 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, I'm sure with enough beer that I'll be able to pronounce it, or you'll find it funny | 17:20 |
| +bartjol | yeah, that is a bit too much of an if(){} else{} construction | 17:21 |
| +perlDreamer | if ($colin->has_beer and $bart->has_beer) { return $colin->pronounces || $bart->finds_it->funny; } | 17:23 |
| +bartjol | even better, sorry, hacking on a dns tool | 17:48 |
| +bartjol | not really paying attention here | 17:49 |
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| @preaction | question: should we distribute additional things with the WRE like zabbix_agent and munin? | 19:15 |
| @preaction | scrottie had a security integrity daemon he mentioned that might be good too, but i can't find the logs for the name anymore | 19:16 |
| @preaction | also, perlDreamer, would you mind if I changed "valid_parent_classes" into "valid_child_classes" that returns a list and isValidChild will pass if any class ISA tested_class? | 19:18 |
| @preaction | that way, i can be on a Layout and ask it what kinds of assets I am allowed to add, instead of asking every asset if they're allowed to be on a Layout | 19:18 |
| +perlDreamer | valid_parent_classes has a dual use | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) it does valid parent checking | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | 2) it tells the asset what kind of parent that it needs when building parent chains for testing | 19:20 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, when testing, you have to poll all available assets to see if they can contain me as a child | 19:21 |
| @preaction | so six of one, half-dozen of the other | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | not quite | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | canAdd is called on $self | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | which checks $session->asset | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | which is the parent | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think it will work inversely | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | mn | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, maybe it will | 19:22 |
| @preaction | canAdd is changing, as www_add is changing | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | you just ask session->asset if it can child self | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not opposed, as long as t/run_asset.t works when you're through | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I've never heard of munin, but I don't think we should distribute zabbix with the WRE | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | to run it, you gotta have a PHP server | 19:23 |
| @preaction | we don't distribute the server, just the agentd | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | but what good is one without the other? | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | at least with awstats, you have a complete solution | 19:23 |
| @preaction | they'd have to set up the server themselves | 19:23 |
| @preaction | munin is a resource monitor thing | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we should sub-class the WRE for our deployment purposes? | 19:24 |
| @preaction | graphs and the like | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | that's cool | 19:24 |
| @preaction | we could also do that, even provide it as a "Pro WRE Node" and "Pro WRE Server (including Zabbix Server and SecurityServer and *gasp* Automat)" | 19:25 |
| @preaction | well, automat won't make it past the suits, but the rest of it | 19:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I know how to do in-memory assets | 19:35 |
| @preaction | uh, i hope so, because they work? | 19:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | really, how do you make an in-memory only asset? | 19:42 |
| @scrottie | what the heck is zabbix anyway? | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | there's tripwire... and there's the thing like it that runs remotely whose name I don't remember... and there are a few rootkit sniffers... | 19:50 |
| @scrottie | http://stealth.sourceforge.net/ | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | zabbbix is system monitoring software with centralized reporting | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | Crud.t passes! | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | time for docs, and then all sub-tests | 20:04 |
| @preaction | scrottie: yes, that one, stealth | 20:05 |
| +perlDreamer | without apache in the WRE, it should get smaller | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: did you ever download the new VM image that I uploaded to give it a spin? | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it'd be nice to have a 2nd pair of eyes, since it's the first time I did that | 20:11 |
| +perlDreamer | although, virtualBox is pretty nice | 20:12 |
| Haarg | i still really want to get rid of image magick. it's the one remaining painful prereq. | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | MMAP has some hangups, too | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but yet, ImageMagick would be good to remove | 20:17 |
| +perlDreamer | s/et/es | 20:17 |
| Haarg | yeah there are a couple other areas where you can run into problems | 20:17 |
| Haarg | but they are easy to work around | 20:18 |
| @scrottie | Survey.pm uses exception handling to break out of the sandbox when it needs to get more data in. | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | I'm seeing traces from Survey.pm in my log when running certain unit tests. | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | is this normal? or is my WebGUI going to fall off? | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | sorry, Survey::ExpressionEngine. | 20:32 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie: for a benchmark, grab a VM image of WebGUI on CentOS, and run it. | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't remember seeing any ExpressionEngine errors, but that doesn't mean that they aren't in there | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe even by deliberate testing | 20:38 |
| +perlDreamer | patspam++ is a very, very thorough test writer | 20:38 |
| * perlDreamer goes AFK for lunch, et. al. | 20:40 | |
| patspam | haarg++ # death to image magick! | 20:45 |
| Haarg | i got storage working using imager instead but the graph stuff is a lot more work to convert | 20:46 |
| patspam | I just read the latest CPAN Testers blog post about how cpan modules get tested on over 100 platforms | 20:47 |
| patspam | made me think it'd be worth building a wrapper around sqlite + a subset of WebGUI that can be uploaded to cpan just for the sake of getting tested | 20:48 |
| Haarg | yeah | 20:48 |
| patspam | I'd do it if I wasn't starting the new job on monday ;) | 20:49 |
| patspam | maybe after I settle in | 20:49 |
| Haarg | i'd work on making WebGUI work as a cpan dist if i could get rid of yui but there isn't a good way to do that | 20:49 |
| patspam | what issue does YUI introduce? | 20:49 |
| Haarg | it adds tons of files | 20:50 |
| Haarg | which makes the normal make or build process very slow | 20:50 |
| patspam | could you make it a CDN-by-default wG build? | 20:51 |
| Haarg | i'd like to but that involves adding config stuff for yui | 20:51 |
| patspam | I thought yui cdn options were added a few months ago? | 20:52 |
| Haarg | i started working on it but it wasn't complete | 20:52 |
| patspam | ah ok | 20:53 |
| Haarg | basically, we want yui3 but it is a lot of work to use it, even though not much of the actual js code would need to change | 20:53 |
| Haarg | so adding extra options/upgrades/complexity for yui that would just get thrown out had kind of been rejected | 20:53 |
| patspam | you could build a dist that isn't supposed to be used by anyone (at least for now) | 20:55 |
| patspam | e.g. just leave yui out of it | 20:56 |
| patspam | just for the sake of free testing | 20:56 |
| Haarg | yeah, or include a script that would download yui as part of an install process | 20:56 |
| Haarg | kind of hard to be motivated to spend the time doing the work when it can't be used though | 20:56 |
| patspam | yeah true | 20:57 |
| patspam | been reading the catalyst book this week | 20:59 |
| patspam | even now that we have plack in wg8 I can still see value in porting wg to catalyst | 21:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | patspam: it's not fair to tease us like that, and then wander off elsewhere ;) | 22:12 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings. | 22:51 |
| SquOnk | Is there a reason for not being able to create multiple shortcuts in a single operation from the Asset Manager? | 22:52 |
| SquOnk | I mean, you can select several assets and then Cut/Copy/Delete/Duplicate... | 22:52 |
| SquOnk | ...why isn't there a 'Create Shortcut' button too? | 22:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, no idea | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like a great RFE | 23:15 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: what's the freeze window for 7.10? | 23:15 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: shall we say second week of december? however that matches up to a 7.10 release? | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | works for me chief | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | that gives people 6 weeks | 23:49 |
| @preaction | then we got a few weeks before the break to stabilize, then when we come back from break we'll have the stable 7.10 release | 23:49 |
| @preaction | why again do we have lastModified and revisionDate? because lastModified gets changed by any call to update()? | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: that's what I'd assume. However, the reason for that is lost in the sands of time. | 23:55 |
| @preaction | sigh... i love having two stores for the same data | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | well, you can call update without making a revision | 23:55 |
| @preaction | we should stop using revisionDate and start using revisionId | 23:55 |
| +perlDreamer | so it makes sense to have lastModified | 23:56 |
| @preaction | then revisionDate could change and it wouldn't matter | 23:56 |
| @preaction | well... does it even matter now? | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | but why would you ever change a revisionDate? | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | revisionId is almost like tagId | 23:56 |
| @preaction | what other reasons do we need lastModified? | 23:56 |
| @preaction | no, revisionId would be per-asset. tagId is a foreign key | 23:56 |
| +perlDreamer | how would you find the current revision without the date, and sorting by date? | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | would you store the current revisionId in the asset table? | 23:57 |
| +perlDreamer | or do you have some other plan? | 23:57 |
| @preaction | you'd still have the date, or storing the current revisionId in the asset table would be nice too | 23:58 |
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| @preaction | you'd still need the date for other things, but it wouldn't have to be important | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | I like storing it, since you don't have to do a sub-select anymore | 23:58 |
| @preaction | but being able to join back and forth from the asset table, without having to subselect revisionDate would be awesome | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | totally | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | but, iirc, I had this talk with Haarg and he had a good reason why not to do that | 23:58 |
| @preaction | any objections? i leave the floor open. otherwise i'm doing it | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe it was with rizen | 23:59 |
| @preaction | humph. always killing my parade | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | i have an objection | 23:59 |
| @preaction | it would destroy many SQLReports, or at least fuck with them a little bit | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not on the 8 TODO list, and we're 10 weeks away from alpha release | 23:59 |
| @preaction | we couldn't just drop revisionDate | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the only objection that I have to doing it | 23:59 |
| @preaction | right, but this would be just an addition, a new part we can take advantage of during 8.x to simplify things | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't even care about the SQL Reports. They can rework them | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Sat Nov 06 2010 | ||
| @preaction | in fact, we don't have to migrate anything at all, it just gets updated as "current" changes while tags are committed | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, you mean add it to the list, not do it right now? | 00:00 |
| @preaction | then over time we can change things, after writing the docs that explain it | 00:00 |
| @preaction | right, it's a "can do anytime" thing, it's new, not breaking any apis whatsoever | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | bah, documentation. Good tests supersede those. | 00:00 |
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| @preaction | well, for example, check out my Admin docs, and my new ... crap I wrote nice docs for something, now I don't remember what | 00:01 |
| +perlDreamer | Auth? | 00:01 |
| @preaction | FormBuilder maybe? | 00:01 |
| @preaction | no, i couldn't, Auth is pretty simple, one real entry point: www_view | 00:01 |
| @preaction | everything else is a hodgepodge between the base class and Auth::WebGUI which needs to be sorted out | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not FormBuilder, it's missing lots of POD | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | and there's nothing in docs/migration.txt about it either | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | but there's nothing to migrate, really | 00:03 |
| +perlDreamer | aside from how to convert from *Form to FormBuilder maybe? | 00:03 |
| @preaction | not really, no. humph... | 00:03 |
| @preaction | maybe it was... graham wrote something awesome that we added that i wrote docs for to make POD.t shut the hell up | 00:04 |
| @preaction | not Upgrade | 00:04 |
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| @preaction | eh, oh well, the idea being that you should be able to get a basic understanding from the POD | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | "graham writing something awesome" doesn't narrow it down very much | 00:04 |
| @preaction | i know, right? | 00:04 |
| +perlDreamer | similar to "doug writing something awesome" | 00:05 |
| @preaction | i do have to doc the WebGUI::Deprecate which kicks all ass everywhere. is gonna make this whole thing so much easier | 00:05 |
| @preaction | gonna add some helper methods, and then take an hour and actually figure out how it works, as i understand the theory, but i couldn't fix it when it needed extending | 00:05 |
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| * perlDreamer takes a foosball break | 00:06 | |
| @preaction | i just noticed, if anyone ever adds an asset to bring a site over maximum assets, nobody will ever get to save another asset again, unless an asset gets deleted | 00:12 |
| @preaction | so if an upgrade adds an asset... | 00:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | then we have a static site! | 00:23 |
| @preaction | i keep wanting to do everything and then run/write tests, but it'll be easier if i do one thing, then run/write tests, then the next thing, etc... | 00:34 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, it's slow and methodical, but safe | 00:35 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: do all the run_asset.t tests pass for you? | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | pass? | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | they don't even run | 00:35 |
| @preaction | yes | 00:35 |
| @preaction | oh, fun, i need them. | 00:35 |
| +perlDreamer | after the last merge from FormBuilder/getEditForm, they take hours to run due to calling sleep lots | 00:35 |
| @preaction | ah, i can fix that | 00:36 |
| @preaction | and yeah they won't pass either, i can fix that too | 00:36 |
| @preaction | does AssetExportHtml.t pass? | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | well... | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | that's one of the tests that didn't pass due to leaks | 00:37 |
| +perlDreamer | however, on yesterday's run, it did pass, even though it did leak a tag | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | although the tag was empty with no assets | 00:38 |
| @preaction | humph... | 00:39 |
| @preaction | okay, so i'll fix the admin test then | 00:39 |
| @preaction | i'm fixing www_edit www_add and the whole notion of saving and version tags, so i'm gonna need the tests ;-) | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | oh yeah you are | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | when you run the tests, be sure to set WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=1 | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | that'll help with tracking when you get the tag cleaned up | 00:41 |
| @preaction | but when i'm done i think we'll all like the results | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | foosball break | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | yow! | 01:18 |
| +perlDreamer | 10-1 to the home team for Goalie wars | 01:18 |
| SquOnk | lol | 01:22 |
| SquOnk | What would you suggest to carry a "Quote of the Week" section? | 01:22 |
| SquOnk | "To be or not to be, that's the question" -- Shakespeare | 01:23 |
| SquOnk | "To be or not to be, is that a question?" -- SquOnk | 01:23 |
| SquOnk | On the main page we would use a shortcut with and overriding template so that only the most recent quote is shown. | 01:23 |
| SquOnk | But the "Quotes of the Week" page should list them all, with pagination. | 01:24 |
| @preaction | a CS would work | 01:30 |
| SquOnk | preaction: Probably as a Weblog without replies... | 01:34 |
| @preaction | well, i'd do a whole custom template really, but yes | 01:34 |
| SquOnk | preaction: A hint? | 01:36 |
| @preaction | huh? | 01:37 |
| SquOnk | preaction: What to use instead of a weblog | 01:37 |
| @preaction | a shortcut with a template override added to your style templates with an assetproxy, and then a normal CS somewhere. use the title as the quote, either content or userDefined1 as the author or something | 01:37 |
| @preaction | a custom template, you write a template yourself | 01:38 |
| SquOnk | userDefined1, that's it | 01:38 |
| @preaction | did Scope::Guard's API change? | 01:41 |
| @preaction | or did i just not update | 01:41 |
| SquOnk | preaction: How about a Q&A and use the Question for the quote and Answer for the attribution? | 01:52 |
| SquOnk | ...I guess it's the same anyway | 01:53 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: you need to update | 01:54 |
| @preaction | yeah, it's fixed now | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Fork uses a new API for exporting a guard subroutine | 01:54 |
| @preaction | running a full run again | 01:54 |
| +perlDreamer | I had to update testE and gotchas.txt | 01:54 |
| SquOnk | What does "Make sticky" and "Lock" mean for a CS? (Sorry, I'm dumbed down by now) | 02:07 |
| @preaction | Sticky keeps it at the top. Lock means no more replies | 02:08 |
| SquOnk | preaction: Thanks! | 02:08 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: if we implemented the revisionId thing, we could fix the sleeping in the run_asset.t, we could have multiple revisions in the same second | 02:17 |
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| +perlDreamer | yes | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | SquOnk, there used to be a Glossary page in the webgui Wiki that describes that kind of stuff | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | just in case your friendly oracular preaction isn't in the room | 02:35 |
| @preaction | SquOnk: also the Content Manager's guide | 02:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, how would you implement an AJAX version of www_editSave? | 02:41 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know if it's possible, with all the commit, autocommit, commit comments and stuff | 02:42 |
| @preaction | why? | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | why what? | 02:42 |
| @preaction | why do you need one? | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | let's just say it wasn't my idea and that it has to be built | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | for example | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | purely hypothetically speaking | 02:43 |
| @preaction | ... if it goes into core, it needs to go through me | 02:43 |
| @preaction | and there's no way in hell i would ever approve anything like it | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | this wouldn't be core | 02:43 |
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| @preaction | so i fix a problem in the stockdata test, but it also fixes a problem in the collaboration test? | 05:14 |
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| @preaction | one t/run_assets.t test fails :( | 05:19 |
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| @preaction | all t/run_asset.pl tests pass! i win! | 07:06 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: you still awake? | 07:21 |
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| qwebirc14318 | hi, i'm doing a "perl testEncironment.pl".... and having problems installing Apache2::Request | 14:30 |
| qwebirc14318 | Checking claims its not installed | 14:33 |
| qwebirc14318 | when i try to install, it says "Apache2::Request is up to date (2.12)." | 14:34 |
| * qwebirc14318 afk for 10 mins.... | 14:37 | |
| * qwebirc14318 hopes someone read my message in the mean time ;-) | 14:38 | |
| qwebirc14318 | ? | 14:53 |
| qwebirc14318 | need more info? or you all dont know ? | 14:53 |
| qwebirc14318 | or no one here................................................ | 14:53 |
| Getty | sounds strange, but i cant help you on that | 15:04 |
| Getty | you need to wait for preaction | 15:05 |
| qwebirc14318 | than i will try to put in on the forum...... | 15:07 |
| qwebirc14318 | thanks | 15:07 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * rbb8753c / (7 files in 3 dirs): Better @INC fiddling and degenerate case for ProgressTree - http://bit.ly/blstWS | 15:56 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * ra4edea1 / (12 files in 7 dirs): Better integration of Fork into AssetHelpers, fork startup - http://bit.ly/d9q2T9 | 15:56 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Paul Driver master * r21ae5f0 / (7 files in 3 dirs): Better @INC fiddling and degenerate case for ProgressTree - http://bit.ly/b2HTJ4 | 15:58 |
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| Haarg | frodwith, looks like you lost the -I in that patch | 16:32 |
| @frodwith | ach, you're right. Thanks. | 16:33 |
| SDuensin | Morning all. | 16:42 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r03c935f / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : forkAndExec -I buggo - http://bit.ly/dbNAgv | 16:42 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Paul Driver master * r1de231b / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : forkAndExec -I buggo - http://bit.ly/cwBnd6 | 16:42 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning scrottie | 18:02 |
| @scrottie | heya perlDreamer. | 18:04 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r5473cb7 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): Fix username's in the Edit User screen. Fixes bug # 11950 - http://bit.ly/caSzeQ | 18:09 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r5c40664 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): Fix username's in the Edit User screen. Fixes bug # 11950 - http://bit.ly/cp7ZfY | 18:09 |
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| +perlDreamer | bartjol: you really don't want to edit users | 18:38 |
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| +bartjol | sure I do, make them nicer | 18:40 |
| +perlDreamer | is that in the profile tab? | 18:41 |
| +bartjol | well, the main tav | 18:41 |
| +bartjol | tab | 18:41 |
| +bartjol | sothe account tab | 18:42 |
| +perlDreamer | gotcha | 18:42 |
| +bartjol | and you are already able to edit the name | 18:43 |
| +perlDreamer | so, out of curiousity, how are you supposed to pronounce Huub? | 18:43 |
| +bartjol | you just see "0" | 18:43 |
| +perlDreamer | http://bit.ly/cp7ZfY <== that's your fix | 18:43 |
| +bartjol | the b like a soft "p" | 18:43 |
| +perlDreamer | and uu == oo ? | 18:43 |
| +bartjol | mmm, looks llike an icq invite url | 18:43 |
| +bartjol | no | 18:44 |
| +bartjol | not oo | 18:44 |
| +bartjol | thinking of a word | 18:44 |
| dreamersgirl | Bartjol: Tell him congratulations next time you see him! | 18:45 |
| +bartjol | I will | 18:46 |
| +perlDreamer | dreamersgirl: Fireplace inspection at 9:00am this morning | 18:47 |
| +bartjol | you don't have words with an "uu" sound | 18:49 |
| +perlDreamer | vacuum | 18:49 |
| dreamersgirl | Nice! | 18:49 |
| +bartjol | no, that is an oo/oe | 18:49 |
| dreamersgirl | is there a German word that has the sound? | 18:49 |
| +bartjol | yes | 18:50 |
| +bartjol | an u with an umluat | 18:51 |
| dreamersgirl | ah, yes. the sound we can't say. :) | 18:51 |
| * perlDreamer is bereft of European pronounciation ability | 18:52 | |
| +perlDreamer | and I say "takko", too. | 18:52 |
| +bartjol | we have some more of those | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | yay, we passed inspection! | 18:57 |
| +bartjol | congratulations | 18:58 |
| dreamersgirl | :) | 19:00 |
| +bartjol | the perlDreamer go to http://barbapapa.hyves.nl/widget/48260389/HUUB_HUUB_HUUB_BARBATRUUK/B9qm/ at 2:20 it is said two times in a row | 19:02 |
| +perlDreamer | that cartoon implies that Huub means hoop in English. Is that true? | 19:05 |
| +bartjol | how does it imply that? | 19:10 |
| +bartjol | it is more an abracadabra kind of use | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, I see | 19:11 |
| +bartjol | not really meaning anything | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | when he turns his head into a Lasso, it made me think "Hoop hoop" | 19:11 |
| @preaction | woot woot! | 19:12 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: you near portland? http://twitter.com/theory/status/1685834864529408 | 19:24 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm here preaction: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1025+Northeast+36th+Avenue,+Hillsboro,+OR&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.178967,84.287109&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1025+SE+36th+Ave,+Hillsboro,+Washington,+Oregon+97123&t=h&z=16 | 19:25 |
| @preaction | oh nice | 19:26 |
| @preaction | there's a milwaukie? | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 19:26 |
| dreamersgirl | Three hour lecture is almost done. We're all lost. Not good. | 19:26 |
| +perlDreamer | even the teacher, dreamersgirl? | 19:26 |
| dreamersgirl | It's a happening place, too. ;-) | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe I need to dust off my statistics books | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | milwaukee is getting light rail, too | 19:27 |
| dreamersgirl | this is musculoskeletal, not research. | 19:27 |
| dreamersgirl | test after test after test | 19:27 |
| dreamersgirl | you'd like it! | 19:27 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I don't think it's a coincidence that the hackathon is near Madison St, either | 19:27 |
| @preaction | heh | 19:28 |
| @preaction | actually because of WI's new governor, we may lose our high-speed rail project | 19:28 |
| dreamersgirl | Boo! | 19:29 |
| @khenn | why did I think you were closer to the ocean? | 19:29 |
| dreamersgirl | it's closer to the ocean that Madison is? | 19:29 |
| @khenn | for some reason I thought you could walk out the back door of the Kuskie home and spit on a sea lion | 19:29 |
| @khenn | I'm not sure you can get much farther away form an ocean than Wisconsin tbh | 19:30 |
| @khenn | s/form/from/ | 19:30 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn, you can walk out the back door, hop on the light-rail, to go the zoo and spit on a sea lion | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | but they spit back | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | otherwise, you're 60 minutes from the ocean beachfront | 19:31 |
| +perlDreamer | 75 minutes from skiing | 19:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and 45 minutes from Oregon wine country | 19:32 |
| @khenn | not bad | 19:32 |
| @khenn | we are about 17-18 hours from any ocean | 19:32 |
| dreamersgirl | that's a long way | 19:32 |
| @khenn | the closest being the sludge in the hudson bay area | 19:32 |
| @khenn | which I wouldn't consider ocean | 19:33 |
| @khenn | true ocean is probably a good 20 hrs+ | 19:33 |
| @khenn | Atlantic City / Jersey shore I guess | 19:33 |
| @khenn | of course, when the asteroid hits we have a good chance of surviving the tidal wave | 19:34 |
| @khenn | =) | 19:34 |
| @khenn | we'll die of starvation a year or so later | 19:34 |
| dreamersgirl | Not in Wisconsin. You'll survive on deep fried cheese curd and beer. | 19:35 |
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| @khenn | I think I'd rather get hit by the tidal wave than be forced to survive on deep fried cheese =p | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | but there's beer, too! | 20:02 |
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| @preaction | we really need to have a toggle for user session tracking, especially for visitors. we do too much with it | 23:32 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r76f32f3 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Don't consider a time zone when given a mysql style date, versus an epochal date. Fixes bug #11946. - http://bit.ly/bHr2ob | 23:47 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * refdad48 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Don't consider a time zone when given a mysql style date, versus an epochal date. Fixes bug #11946. - http://bit.ly/c3qaJb | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: are there scaling issues with that table? | 23:49 |
| @preaction | well, every http request means a write to the userSession table, which is bad | 23:53 |
| @preaction | JT had in-memory sessions that would only flush after 5 minutes or so, which is better | 23:53 |
| --- Day changed Tue Nov 09 2010 | ||
| +perlDreamer | sounds like a DoS attack waiting to happen | 00:09 |
| +perlDreamer | but probably faster than db writes | 00:09 |
| @preaction | DoS how? | 00:10 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r9e714fa / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix template variable help for Navigation, page.depthDiff. Fixes bug #11952. - http://bit.ly/9lmZcg | 00:14 |
| @preaction | i think i may have a 64-bit WRE compiling on OpenSUSE | 00:14 |
| @preaction | i've made it to the perl modules | 00:15 |
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| xdanger | Lazy session creation, as I talked earlier... Only create the session when something is writen to it (POST, setSratch, login) | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if I know that each Visitor takes 50 kB, then if i can create 1000 Visitors in 5 minutes then I can slurp down 50 Mb from your site | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | on 1 machine, at 1 page fetch per second, that's 300 temporary sessions | 00:16 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm pretty sure we can do better than 1 page fetch per second | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but, you could do the same thing with dB writes | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | so I'm not sure it makes a difference | 00:17 |
| +perlDreamer | if you have enough users/browsers/bots whatever, you can flood a site and shut it down | 00:18 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rcb828d6 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix template variable help for Navigation, page.depthDiff. Fixes bug #11952. - http://bit.ly/92Jlrr | 00:19 |
| xdanger | oh, what a depressing day... should go to sleep, but trying to figure something to keep me occupied | 00:19 |
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| @preaction | the only thing that changes in the WRE from platform to platform is the prereqs directory, correct? | 03:35 |
| CIA-67 | wrebuild: Doug Bell master * r247014c / (build.sh getperlmodules.sh getsource.sh): successful compile on opensuse11 x64 (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/d8Oplh | 04:19 |
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| elnino | hi! | 04:41 |
| scrottie0 | hi! | 04:58 |
| elnino | is the read_limit for libapreq still 64M? anyone here know? | 04:58 |
| elnino | Hi scrottie@! | 04:59 |
| elnino | sure is quiet here tonight. | 04:59 |
| scrottie0 | I often miss the good discussion due to a combination of not being a morning person and being in a western timezone. | 05:00 |
| elnino | me too. | 05:02 |
| scrottie0 | it's probably better that way though. | 05:02 |
| elnino | alright! Time for sleep! | 05:12 |
| elnino | bye | 05:12 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings, Earthlings. | 16:30 |
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| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 19:11 | |
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| @preaction | so, if i'm changing addRevision so it no longer creates a tag, what all needs to create version tags? just www_addSave and www_editSave correct? | 20:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: in the core, I think that's all | 20:33 |
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| @preaction | okay, i first have to add tests for all the stuff in the Test::Class stuff that we don't yet test, like autocommit and such | 20:35 |
| @preaction | and then add tests for addSave, and then proceed, and then... etc... | 20:35 |
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| @preaction | then i can do currentRevisionId stuff in asset and remove those sleeps everywhere in our test code | 20:36 |
| @preaction | unless you want to do that one? | 20:36 |
| * perlDreamer is still ripping out Crud | 20:40 | |
| +perlDreamer | Crud.t is passing | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | now I have to convert all the core classes to use the Moose style definitions | 20:41 |
| @preaction | ah, fun | 20:42 |
| @preaction | we should invest some time into Test::Sweet when we have some spare | 20:46 |
| @preaction | right now i want to have two different addSave tests, one for classes that have a specific type of child, and one for classes that can handle anything | 20:46 |
| @preaction | i suppose i could make a sub that the class could override... | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | no, not Test::Sweet | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | we should use RJBS's Moose test suite instead | 20:50 |
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| @preaction | Test::Routine? | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | crap | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | Yes | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | from what I've read, Test::Routine works better with prove than Test::Sweet | 20:51 |
| @preaction | either way, i want test roles | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | that'd be nice | 20:52 |
| * perlDreamer is tired of copy/pasting test setups | 20:53 | |
| @preaction | indeed | 20:53 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r897c2e0 / (4 files in 4 dirs): If a user does not have privacy data for a field, check back with the field for the privacy default. Fixes bug #11951. Added ProfileField cleanup code. - http://bit.ly/dmDQTx | 21:08 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb44be87 / (4 files in 4 dirs): If a user does not have privacy data for a field, check back with the field for the privacy default. Fixes bug #11951. Added ProfileField cleanup code. - http://bit.ly/d85LUY | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | time for 15 minutes of test maintenance | 21:09 |
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| @preaction | that's another problem: we currently don't have a way to release a WRE at all... | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | huh? | 21:13 |
| @preaction | because we really should release 0.9.4 with updated deps and 64-bit | 21:13 |
| @preaction | the WRE build server has been dead for a year at least | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, right | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | well, maybe we only need to release what people ask for | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | CentOS, Debian and ....? | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | MacOS X for PB folk | 21:14 |
| @preaction | the only holdup was OS X 10.6, and we could just not release that one | 21:14 |
| +perlDreamer | mmmm, having people developing on an old WRE, or only on source installs has caused problems in the past | 21:15 |
| Haarg | was 10.6 actually a problem, or was it just 10.6 32-bit? | 21:16 |
| @preaction | but WRE 1.0 is going to be completely different, and will be nearly no different from a source install | 21:16 |
| @preaction | i could not get OpenSSL to play nice with 10.6, but i haven't tried since January so i don't even remember why anymore | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: we'll have people doing 7.x code for a long time yet | 21:17 |
| @preaction | i know | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | so we need to provide a way for y'all to do safe, environmented dev | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | and, for better or worse, that's the WRE | 21:18 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb2a9f4e / t/User.t : Move all User.t test cleanup out of the END block and into WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup. - http://bit.ly/cirR26 | 21:18 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r1ff8907 / t/User.t : Move all User.t test cleanup out of the END block and into WebGUI::Test->addToCleanup. - http://bit.ly/coKS20 | 21:18 |
| @preaction | i've been non-WRE since January, no problems so far | 21:18 |
| +perlDreamer | I know, but I'm just sayin' | 21:18 |
| @preaction | hmm... apeiron created a VirtualBox::Manage module to find, start, and stop VMs | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | time to dive into Pauls' PayPal drivers | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | since all PayPal drivers were written by one Paul or another | 21:24 |
| @preaction | why? bugs? | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, there's some issue with sales taxes not being displayed in the checkout screen | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | but that could be due to my rewrite, too | 21:25 |
| @preaction | did we decide that if an autocommitted child is added to an uncommitted parent that it needed to join the same version tag as the parent? | 21:45 |
| @preaction | it does that for non auto-committed children | 21:46 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's what the code does currently | 21:47 |
| @preaction | i suppose i'm changing how that all works anyway | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds like it | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | how is it going to work now, in 8? | 21:49 |
| @preaction | only www_addSave and www_editSave care about tags. if anything is autocommitted, you can prevent it if you have the power by unchecking the Approved box (even if the entire site is autocommit) | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | how does that work through the API? | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | or for assets like StoryManager, which have collateral assets like the dated sub-folders? | 21:50 |
| @preaction | addRevision doesn't create a tag. addRevisionToTag will use an existing tag | 21:51 |
| @preaction | all of that will be handled in addSave and editSave, not addRevision and/or processEditForm | 21:51 |
| * perlDreamer hopes you're writing all this up someplace | 21:52 | |
| @preaction | the docs in the classes, silly | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | it was pointed out to me by someone that we usually document what a method does, rather than why it exists, how to use, or how it changes existing stuff | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | but I'll ready your docs before painting with a broad brush stroke | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | sometime after lunch | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | after PayPal | 21:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | after taking kids to the orthodontist | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | after making dinner | 21:55 |
| @preaction | how about after i write them? ;-) | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | ooh! even better | 21:55 |
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| scrottie | mornin', andy. | 22:05 |
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| @preaction | does Test::Routine use UNIVERSAL::isa as a function, not a method? I'm tired of wading through 10,000 lines of that warning for only 3000 tests... | 22:12 |
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| Haarg | i don't think that would matter preaction | 22:39 |
| @preaction | the autocommit/add to parent's tag thing? | 22:40 |
| Haarg | last time i looked into that, isa was being called as a method but UNIVERSAL::isa was warning anyway | 22:40 |
| @preaction | fun | 22:41 |
| Haarg | in the past i've just modified that module to entirely remove the warnings | 22:41 |
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| --- Day changed Wed Nov 10 2010 | ||
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| @preaction | also looks like we're going through with the Dashboard modernizations, yay! | 00:36 |
| @preaction | why do only some of the autocommit assets fail the run_asset.t tests? | 00:49 |
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| @preaction | but i got www_addSave and some refactoring done | 00:52 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Doug Bell WebGUI8 * r17c540f / t/tests/Test/WebGUI/Asset.pm : add more classy tests (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/ay3Rxg | 00:52 |
| @preaction | so i'll move on to the addRevision and autocommit stuff to see if maybe the way we're doing it is making it evil to test | 00:52 |
| @preaction | and finally the currentRevisionId thing | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | if there's a better way to do currentRevisionId in the GalleryAlbum/Photo, it would be good | 01:18 |
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| Getty | ah stupid question, just curious, whats it about WebGUI and clustering? i guess one central DB and all is fine? or is it more complicated? | 03:18 |
| @preaction | what do you want to do? | 03:19 |
| @preaction | mysql itself is kinda tricky, but webgui will work fine in a multi-master mysql environment | 03:19 |
| Getty | classic situation, several webservers loadbalanced | 03:19 |
| @preaction | provided spectre only runs on one of them, you'll be fine | 03:20 |
| Getty | ah spectre is the "central"? | 03:20 |
| Getty | and all webgui communicate with it? | 03:20 |
| Getty | so if i have 10 webservers, i have one spectre and they all ask him for the data? | 03:20 |
| Getty | (talking about one site, not several sites) | 03:20 |
| @preaction | spectre runs certain things at certain times, spectre was not built to cooperate with other spectres, which is the real problem | 03:21 |
| @preaction | so if two spectres run, the same thing may get run twice | 03:21 |
| Getty | ok ok.. wait... back to standard web usage | 03:21 |
| Getty | lets say i have a site that is too big for 1 server | 03:21 |
| Getty | so i want to spread it over 2 webservers | 03:21 |
| @preaction | website will work just fine with however many nodes you want to throw at it | 03:22 |
| Getty | ok, and what is the "central point"? the database? | 03:22 |
| @preaction | just make sure that only one spectre is running | 03:22 |
| Getty | so they all just use the same database and i'm 100% fine? | 03:22 |
| @preaction | same things that you'd take a backup of: same uploads directory and same database | 03:22 |
| Getty | ah ok, uploads directory i must also spread | 03:22 |
| Getty | that is of course not so ideal | 03:22 |
| @preaction | so a NAS or something for the uploads directory, and a mysql multi-master db on another host | 03:23 |
| Getty | mh | 03:23 |
| Getty | not so cool if the uploads are required to be at "one point" | 03:23 |
| @preaction | you could do all the reading of uploads from a special node, with the other nodes only writing to that | 03:23 |
| Getty | dont you mean other around? | 03:24 |
| @preaction | there's also the built-in CDN stuff that can shard the uploads directory if you want | 03:24 |
| Getty | ah never did so much with CDN, but that sounds like an option then | 03:24 |
| @preaction | if you have opinions and/or suggestions on how the cdn stuff can be improved, let me know. i've heard reports of it being less than polished | 03:29 |
| Getty | i dont know if i reach the point to require it at all in the near time, i just wanted to be inform, cause i develop my webgui based products right now and want to be informed ;) | 03:29 |
| @preaction | but the cdn stuff should be able to handle simple sync between two network servers. i think there's an rsync recipe for it even | 03:29 |
| @preaction | iirc the idea of it is that anytime a storage location is created or updated, the cdn script gets called. the script can be/do anything you want | 03:30 |
| Getty | sounds productive | 03:30 |
| Getty | oh other question backup/restore, do i need to take care of uploads/database myself, or does webgui has some special stuff that also take cares of versions and other stuff? | 03:31 |
| @preaction | the upgrade.pl will autobackup the database. the WRE includes a backup.pl script that handles the whole thing, and if you want i've got a beta script that does local and remote backups with rsync | 03:32 |
| Getty | ok, i will come back to that | 03:32 |
| @preaction | but really all you need is /data/WebGUI, /data/domains, /data/wre/etc, and the databases with mysqldump | 03:33 |
| Getty | yeah just thinking of the version change case | 03:35 |
| Getty | so i got a webgui 7.x and backup it | 03:35 |
| Getty | and wanna restore it later on a webgui 7.x+1 which actually has some DB layout changes or something | 03:35 |
| @preaction | depends on how far you're going, but you can usually just add the db to the new server and run upgrade.pl and it will find the db that needs upgrading and do it | 03:35 |
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| Getty | ah cool ok thanks | 03:37 |
| Getty | i hope you guys like new products based on webgui ;) | 03:37 |
| @preaction | new products, new community members, new hosts, new contractors, i personally feel that anybody using webgui is helping webgui | 03:37 |
| Getty | right | 03:41 |
| Getty | i want to concentrate on idiot proof hosting of webgui | 03:41 |
| Getty | so that a moron can get his own webgui for his site in minutes | 03:41 |
| @preaction | then WebGUI 8 is going to be far better for you, as it allows easy overriding of things once not overridable | 03:42 |
| Getty | yes | 03:42 |
| @preaction | and i hope to have Flavors into 8.0.0 as well | 03:42 |
| Getty | we talked about that already | 03:42 |
| Getty | i mean you still got some time till i'm productive ready | 03:42 |
| Getty | if you arent done with 8.0 then i will use 7.x and just offer it later as upgrade | 03:42 |
| Getty | but best would be if its done when i'm done with the base ;) | 03:42 |
| Getty | even tho i must say: what i want most is the modern perl WebGUI (With DBIx::Class !!! we had the theme hehe) | 03:43 |
| @preaction | you and me both | 03:45 |
| Getty | hey, if you want help, i'm there | 03:45 |
| Getty | its just a very huge monster, and i dont want to help on basics | 03:45 |
| Getty | you know your product better | 03:45 |
| Getty | but if you say the base is clear, i'm more then happy to help porting stuff over to modern perl | 03:46 |
| @preaction | well, first i have to start with the bottom, build some basic crud routines for DBIC | 03:46 |
| Getty | there is lots of stuff already done, best is if you like with ribasushi on that theme | 03:46 |
| @preaction | but the Modern WebGUI stuff cannot be used as-is without breaking API promises | 03:46 |
| Getty | he is also a good friend of mine and very near to my position | 03:47 |
| Getty | (ribasushi is one of the core developers of DBIx::Class, actually he works on it 24/7) | 03:47 |
| @preaction | right now i'm adding things to the API, breaking APIs so that I can add my new, good stuff alongside the old, busted stuff and deprecate the old ways | 03:47 |
| Getty | yeah, i'm fresh, no legacy | 03:47 |
| Getty | so .... i'm free of that ;) | 03:48 |
| @preaction | we've got a lot of code to maintain, over and above the WebGUI itself | 03:48 |
| @preaction | and people will kill me if i break that code, so we take the slow, stable, enterprise way of doing things | 03:49 |
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| Getty | i know how i could help i think | 03:56 |
| Getty | i mean.. dont know how you work | 03:56 |
| Getty | but if you make a "requirement" list, and stuff that you do with database | 03:57 |
| Getty | i could go around and make research for you and checkout what possibilities we have with existing CPAN modules and test the features out | 03:57 |
| Getty | so that i can give you a nice sample package and make your work less stressy | 03:57 |
| Getty | just an offer | 03:57 |
| Getty | btw, you know KinoSearch? | 03:57 |
| @preaction | well, the way i want to sneak an ORM in is to stop the "Everything is an asset" mentality and start using ORM relationships. Threads have Posts, but Posts are not assets (they don't have their own URLs or entry in the Asset table) | 03:58 |
| Getty | yeah i already saw the problem | 03:58 |
| Getty | i just say "redirects" ;) | 03:58 |
| Getty | "why the fuck i can make a redirect as element of a page!" | 03:58 |
| @preaction | basically, yeah | 03:59 |
| Getty | yeah redirect is not the best example | 03:59 |
| Getty | but it shows the base problem of "everything is an asset" | 04:00 |
| @preaction | though redirects are kinda funny, and urls in webgui are kinda funny, but the problem is to have a URL you must be an asset | 04:00 |
| @preaction | to have an entry in the assetIndex so you are Searchable, you must be an asset | 04:00 |
| Getty | i must say: its not bad concept, its a very good base | 04:00 |
| @preaction | i may have been looking at kinosearch, this is the pure-perl search system right? | 04:00 |
| Getty | yes | 04:00 |
| Getty | and its also supported by a company now like your product | 04:01 |
| @preaction | yeah, i do like the Asset system, i just don't like the "everything must be an asset" mentality | 04:01 |
| Getty | and is in heavy development | 04:01 |
| Getty | (not development state) | 04:01 |
| Getty | i think its intersting to take a look at it | 04:01 |
| Getty | but if you dont do it, i will probably just try to make it as module | 04:02 |
| Getty | so you probably should not care and just give me the options in the modern construct to use it | 04:02 |
| @preaction | indeed, might be a lot easier to make as a dependency instead of using Sphinx as we've been leaning to | 04:02 |
| @preaction | i could add some configuration of a search module to our list, but the API you'd have to implement would be the same as the current one | 04:03 |
| Getty | whatever it takes ;) you cant scare me away | 04:03 |
| @preaction | i really want to get rid of every asset's individual search, and then replace search entirely with something good | 04:03 |
| Getty | Spectre is also a product part of WebGUI, right? its not a dependency you just use, or? | 04:04 |
| @preaction | the problem is i may not get to it before API freeze, which is really soon | 04:04 |
| @preaction | spectre is part of WebGUI and depends on it (or rather, WebGUI depends on Spectre) | 04:04 |
| Getty | Reflex it! in the modern version ;) | 04:04 |
| @preaction | is reflex ready yet? | 04:05 |
| Getty | i would say yes, even tho i dont use it already (i'm very bound to POE and dont have time right now to learn the new way) | 04:05 |
| Getty | but dngor is tending people to use it | 04:05 |
| @preaction | i wanted to use it back last December, but it was very new | 04:06 |
| Getty | historical seen it is new but just a new version of POE | 04:06 |
| Getty | same coder base, its even promoted on #poe channeltopic | 04:07 |
| Getty | and so i think its something that can be relied on | 04:07 |
| @preaction | yeah, lots has been done since last i saw. i've been thinking about what the next-gen spectre will be | 04:09 |
| Getty | so now you got it | 04:09 |
| Getty | :-) | 04:09 |
| Getty | i think there are also not really other options | 04:09 |
| Getty | Reflex will replace POE | 04:09 |
| Getty | and so there will be the most amount of coders working on it | 04:09 |
| Getty | Adam bot framework is already ported LOL ;) | 04:10 |
| Getty | ah... good idea... Spectre bot.... that will be one of my first modules ;) | 04:10 |
| Getty | having all spectre of the client servers on an IRC channel | 04:10 |
| Getty | and watch the activity a bit | 04:10 |
| Getty | oh oh.. yes | 04:10 |
| Getty | and XMPP connection | 04:10 |
| Getty | roar... hot | 04:11 |
| Getty | oh i also got another wish.... | 04:12 |
| Getty | i dont suggest that you take it into concern from start, but you should have it in mind: | 04:13 |
| Getty | it would be awesome for the spreading of WebGUI if its also a regular CPAN module and can be installed via some installer script that is delivered with it | 04:13 |
| @preaction | we're working on that too. haarg's WGDev will become WebGUI::Command, and it will include commands to add/remove sites and other things | 04:14 |
| Getty | wonderful | 04:14 |
| Getty | cause that makes it more easy for the marketing movement of perl to include WebGUI | 04:15 |
| @preaction | indeed | 04:15 |
| Getty | right now its hard to promote something as "part of perl" if its not on CPAN | 04:15 |
| Getty | i said a sentence at cebit: "if its not on CPAN it doesnt exist" | 04:15 |
| @preaction | right now the problem is of dependencies, we have a huge number of them, and our tests won't run without them | 04:15 |
| Getty | so? | 04:16 |
| Getty | if i installed MooseX::POE i get around 300-400 dependencies | 04:16 |
| Getty | and can take a coffee if the system is fresh | 04:16 |
| @preaction | we also ship YUI | 04:16 |
| Getty | license problem for CPAN? | 04:16 |
| Getty | if, then we just need Alien::YUI | 04:16 |
| @preaction | not that i'm aware of, it's just a huge number of files that we don't really want to ship anymore | 04:17 |
| Getty | CPAN doesnt care that i can tell ;) | 04:17 |
| @preaction | so we're moving to a CDN by default, with a script to download a local copy | 04:17 |
| Getty | important is that i can use webgui after install via CPAN without any additional network requirement | 04:17 |
| Getty | the install may require network | 04:18 |
| Getty | but after the install it must work without | 04:18 |
| Haarg | part of the problem is some of the dependancies can't be gotten from cpan | 04:18 |
| Getty | that would be the best way for the marketing | 04:18 |
| Haarg | and when i say some of i really just mean imagemagick | 04:18 |
| Getty | why it cant be gotten from CPAN? | 04:18 |
| Haarg | the imagemagick that exists on cpan pretty much doesn't work | 04:19 |
| Getty | then lets fix it | 04:19 |
| Getty | problem => solution | 04:19 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r0acdcbc / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix display of taxes in several payment confirmation screens. - http://bit.ly/dcxDzF | 04:20 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rb24d3fe / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix display of taxes in several payment confirmation screens. - http://bit.ly/c7Do2D | 04:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty, there are other perl solutions that you can't get from CPAN. | 04:22 |
| Haarg | i already started working on replacing imagemagick with Imager but it would involve re-writing a bunch of the graph system | 04:22 |
| +perlDreamer | CPAN is awesome, but it's not everything | 04:22 |
| Getty | what is missing we can add | 04:22 |
| +perlDreamer | you can't compile many modules without development libraries | 04:22 |
| +perlDreamer | well, right now you can't add WebGUI | 04:22 |
| Getty | yeah i know | 04:22 |
| Getty | i suggested that you didnt put it on CPAN out of evil thinking ;) | 04:22 |
| Getty | i suggested that there are reasons | 04:23 |
| Getty | but we can move towards to fix them step by step | 04:23 |
| Getty | just wanted to hear that you WANT it on CPAN, and not deny it out of concept | 04:23 |
| +perlDreamer | it would be awesome to have WebGUI on CPAN | 04:24 |
| Haarg | imagemagick is the biggest stumbling block at this point | 04:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and to have it run on shared hosting | 04:24 |
| +perlDreamer | and to have President Obama use it | 04:24 |
| Getty | ok thats a word | 04:24 |
| @preaction | shared hosting is a fever dream and i don't care about it | 04:24 |
| Getty | actually: the last sentence is on the target list | 04:24 |
| Getty | i want that WebGUI crushs the market of Typo3 and Drupal | 04:24 |
| @preaction | we have the State Department, which is the best department | 04:24 |
| Getty | i'm an old php coder, 13 years PHP, did an own framework in it, but since 3 years only perl | 04:24 |
| Getty | (or nearly, just manage some legacy php) | 04:25 |
| Getty | and i want to crush Typo3, i hate it | 04:25 |
| Getty | but its market "leader" | 04:25 |
| Getty | and that doesnt make sense | 04:25 |
| Getty | its shit | 04:25 |
| Getty | ;) | 04:25 |
| Getty | i already showed WebGUI to a company that is right now mainly using Typo3 | 04:25 |
| Getty | and they said: yes thats cool, we want that | 04:25 |
| Getty | (just by using your demo installation) | 04:25 |
| @preaction | if we can beat them with our current state, i can only imagine how things will be when i get done with what i want to get done | 04:26 |
| +perlDreamer | you must be a good salesman | 04:26 |
| Haarg | yui, tinymce, and the icon set that was added are another problem. yui is the easiest to deal with, tinymce can't be fixed yet, icons i don't have a good answer. | 04:26 |
| @preaction | Haarg: bad licensing on the icon set? | 04:26 |
| Getty | actually i'm a coder, but i'm realistic, so i dont think only like a coder, i think also like a "user" | 04:26 |
| Haarg | the number of files | 04:26 |
| Getty | CPAN doesnt care about files amount? | 04:26 |
| +perlDreamer | how about if tar them up, and untar on install? | 04:26 |
| Getty | YUI and TinyMCE can get Alien:: packages | 04:27 |
| Getty | share/ directory | 04:27 |
| Getty | special files goes into share/ and u use ShareDir ;) | 04:27 |
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| Getty | http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?File::ShareDir | 04:27 |
| Haarg | yes, that is how it would be done. but when you have 1000s of files it is problematic to deal with. | 04:27 |
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| Getty | Haarg: haha.... chicken! ;) | 04:27 |
| Getty | Haarg: i will try to help on that very massive, i love to make CPAN modules | 04:28 |
| Getty | and since i use Dist::Zilla.............. oh man.... i can produce them in minutes | 04:28 |
| Getty | Dist::Zilla is the best shit since the best shit since the best shit since sliced bread | 04:29 |
| Haarg | preaction, what would you think of pulling tinymce out of core and making the rich editor plugable? | 04:29 |
| Getty | Haarg++! | 04:29 |
| @preaction | Haarg: i would enjoy it very much | 04:29 |
| Haarg | have the default editor use YUI's since that provides enough for most people | 04:29 |
| Getty | i think | 04:30 |
| @preaction | as i would LOVE a Markdown editor to use in the Wiki | 04:30 |
| Getty | we have a perl Rich Text editor | 04:30 |
| Haarg | because tinymce can't be put on a cdn | 04:30 |
| Getty | Haarg: can you make a list of stuff that you cant get from CPAN and put it on some wiki page i can also edit? | 04:31 |
| Haarg | it's really only imagemagick | 04:31 |
| Getty | ok | 04:31 |
| Getty | so if i solve that for you, we will get good friends? ;) | 04:31 |
| Haarg | yui tinymce and icons are a different problem and need core work | 04:31 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: do you have any pending commits for 7.9? | 05:01 |
| @preaction | nope | 05:01 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r3891d66 / (26 files in 11 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.18 release. - http://bit.ly/bdVD4c | 05:52 |
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| +perlDreamer | hm, demo site usage is up | 06:46 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r0e491d6 / (4 files in 4 dirs): Preparing for 7.9.19 bug-fixing. - http://bit.ly/9XEd65 | 07:04 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Nov 10 07:15:53 2010 | ||
| --- Log opened Wed Nov 10 07:37:13 2010 | ||
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:30 |
| @khenn | morning! | 16:45 |
| SDuensin | That it is. | 16:48 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: why isn't findBrokenAssets a Workflow Activity? | 17:23 |
| +perlDreamer | and Admin Console plugin? | 17:23 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a great commandline tool for admins, but it's a more powerful tool in the hands of users. | 17:27 |
| +bartjol | mmm, that great script (with the option --fix) says my asset is fixed in the output (after which the script breaks) | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | still has a none-existing paernt | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | and apparently the script doesn't recognise it's broken state | 17:54 |
| +bartjol | the script seems to actually move it to the import node | 17:58 |
| +bartjol | eeeh, it should do that I mean | 17:58 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol, I don't know if it checks for non-existant parent | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | well | 18:10 |
| +perlDreamer | but we can make it do that | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | Martin said it might have to do with the state of the asset | 18:11 |
| +bartjol | I removed it manually now | 18:11 |
| +bartjol | not the best-practise solution | 18:11 |
| +bartjol | but it works | 18:11 |
| +bartjol | annd there is a cgheck: | 18:11 |
| +bartjol | # Make sure we have a valid parent | 18:11 |
| +bartjol | unless ( WebGUI::Asset->newByDynamicClass( $session, $row{parentId} ) ) { | 18:11 |
| +perlDreamer | diff? | 18:12 |
| +bartjol | eeh, diff between this and what | 18:12 |
| +bartjol | ? | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | if you send me a diff of the script, I'll add it in to the core | 18:13 |
| +bartjol | aah | 18:13 |
| +perlDreamer | diff it against the git repo | 18:13 |
| +bartjol | I didn't make any changes yet | 18:13 |
| +bartjol | maybe I can try and make it, depends on the action we want | 18:14 |
| +bartjol | if the asset can´t be instantiated, it should try to fix it | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | or | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | do nothing and give a notification | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | and apparently my asset wasn good: | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | /data/WebGUI/sbin# perl findBrokenAssets.pl --configFile=www.kojaki.nl.conf --fix | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | -- Corrupt: cp9EoYTkiFylo5M3TqdsOA Fixed. | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | Can't call method "setParent" on an undefined value at findBrokenAssets.pl line 101. | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | oh yeah, this is what the pastebin is for | 18:18 |
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| elnino | Hello! Is there ANYONE here willing to provide webgui hosting for a non-profit for around $10? | 18:21 |
| elnino | Please??? | 18:21 |
| elnino | it's a small site, small bandwith. | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | if the asset has a broken parent, move it to the mediaNode | 18:22 |
| elnino | no support needed. And I have the files for the site. | 18:23 |
| +bartjol | it says that yeah | 18:23 |
| +bartjol | sorry, elnino | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino, I'm not a hoster, so I'm sorry too | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | well we are, but I can offer it for $10 | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | only on my test host, which I do use as a test host, and that feels like going over Koen? back | 18:25 |
| +bartjol | so not offering that either (besides from the frequent outs, that you?l suffer) | 18:26 |
| elnino | Thanks bartjol. We're talking 200 visitors a month. | 18:28 |
| elnino | and proabably most of that is me and my client. | 18:28 |
| @preaction | elnino: pb has a $20/mo unsupported | 18:29 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * rf826cb8 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle assets that can't be instanciated in ExtendCalendarRecurrences. Fixes bug #11956. - http://bit.ly/b3YlcP | 18:35 |
| +bartjol | but, perlDreamer should I report that as a bug? | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol: yes | 18:39 |
| elnino | preaction - yep, I know. But he is so small, he just can't afford that. | 18:39 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * rce7a739 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Handle assets that can't be instanciated in ExtendCalendarRecurrences. Fixes bug #11956. - http://bit.ly/cDCDUN | 18:46 |
| elnino | question.. client moved all her stuff to a new server. and also upgraded from 7.7.28 to 7.9.16. I never set APREQ2_ReadLimit in any of her modperl files, and was able to upload 50M files up. | 18:49 |
| elnino | on the new server we are being limited to about 25M. I believe. | 18:49 |
| Getty | do i get prize for bring new perl dudes in here? ;) | 18:49 |
| elnino | was that variable redefined in the apache conf or mod_perl somewhere, so the defaultlimit was lowered? | 18:49 |
| Getty | hehe | 18:50 |
| elnino | in the wre package? | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino, iirc, the default limit is 25M | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | so you'll have to reset it the modperl.conf file | 18:52 |
| elnino | was that lowered? | 18:52 |
| +perlDreamer | she used the WRE in both cases? | 18:53 |
| @preaction | Getty: if they're using Webgui, yes indeed | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | and you're sure that the WebGUI setting for max file size didn't change? | 18:54 |
| elnino | well, on the old server we did. The new server, I'm not possitive because someone else setup the server. I'm really HOPEING they did. | 18:54 |
| elnino | in the admin->settings? or is there a new variable in the conf files? | 18:54 |
| * preaction can't wait until we throw mod_perl off to never-never land | 18:54 | |
| +perlDreamer | Admin settings | 18:54 |
| Getty | preaction: i try to make a bit promo for it, its good that you tend to go modern perl, thats always a good argument | 18:54 |
| elnino | admin settings yes, we made it rediculusly high. Unless webgui doesn't like that and made it small on us. | 18:55 |
| Getty | btw, can someone point me to some information about payment support in webgui? i saw you have it, but want to checkout what i can do with it and what layer is offered there and so on | 18:55 |
| @preaction | yeah, the main reason i have never talked about WebGUI at a YAPC is that I find myself apologizing about things too much, i want to not have to do that anymore | 18:55 |
| Getty | preaction: HAHAHA | 18:55 |
| Getty | preaction: i must say, i feel a bit ashamed that i didnt promoted it on cebit | 18:55 |
| Getty | preaction: i didnt know much about it at this time, and cause it wasnt on CPAN "it doesnt existed" for me | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Getty: we support ITransact, PayPal and Ogone for payment support | 18:56 |
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| Getty | mh ITransact and Ogone i dont even know | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | ITransact handles recurring transactions, and I belive that Ogone does, too | 18:56 |
| @preaction | ITransact is rebranded under multiple names, iirc | 18:56 |
| Getty | i must think of german market a bit more intense | 18:56 |
| @preaction | Ogone is a european payment gateway | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | Recurring transactions for PayPal are supposed to be available in 7.10, if MrHairgrease has time | 18:56 |
| Getty | is there a standard layer for payment systems? | 18:56 |
| Getty | so that i can extend it for more payment concepts? | 18:56 |
| @preaction | yes, you can write your own paydriver | 18:57 |
| Getty | ah cool | 18:57 |
| @preaction | we have an Authorize.net one that hasn't been added to core | 18:57 |
| @preaction | also there's Business::Payment, if you write a PayDriver that uses Business::Payment, you'd have a lot of paydrivers | 18:58 |
| @preaction | er. Business::OnlinePayment | 18:58 |
| Getty | ah ok :) | 18:58 |
| Getty | sounds like a good TODO | 18:58 |
| Getty | i must see | 18:58 |
| Getty | the problem is german market about online payment is 100% fucked up | 18:58 |
| Getty | do you know any german company working with WebGUI? or german dudes who work commercially with it? | 18:59 |
| @preaction | there were a couple people, there's that german forum on webgui.org | 19:00 |
| Getty | ah ok | 19:00 |
| Getty | forum.... baeh ;) | 19:00 |
| +perlDreamer | whoa, all of a sudden it's Jan 5, 2011! | 19:00 |
| elnino | perldreamer.. just to confirm, you mean the sitename.modperl.conf file right? or are we supposed to set APREQ2_ReadLimit in thel modperl.conf file? | 19:01 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino: according to this wiki page, it's sitename.modperl.conf http://www.webgui.org/wiki/server-won-t-upload-big-files | 19:02 |
| elnino | I wrote that.. =) | 19:03 |
| elnino | I may be leading my self down the wrong path. | 19:03 |
| elnino | I think I got the inital info from threads. | 19:03 |
| elnino | on the forum. | 19:03 |
| elnino | I'll try the actual modperl.conf | 19:04 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe the wiki page needs to be updated | 19:05 |
| elnino | definately if I'm wrong. Its just throwing me off that the two servers are behainv differently, when the ReadLimit variable wasn't defined in either. | 19:05 |
| +bartjol | eee, I don believe site configs for modperl have .conf at the end of the filename | 19:13 |
| +bartjol | in wre | 19:14 |
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| jigou | Elnino: I've got that value configured in my actual modperl.conf file, set at 125M. THEN update the setting in the site settings also. | 19:36 |
| +perlDreamer | You know you've been writing perl too long when.... | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | ... you end sentences with ; instead of '.' | 19:50 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: you win! | 19:53 |
| @preaction | yay! what do i win! | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | The award for smallest object module | 19:54 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't have any methods at all | 19:54 |
| @preaction | hurm? | 19:54 |
| +perlDreamer | AssetCollateral/Sky/ThingyRecord | 19:54 |
| @preaction | awesome! | 19:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | The conversion to Moose may make it even smaller | 19:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I win the award for 2nd smallest module | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | PassiveAnalytics/Rule.pm | 19:59 |
| +perlDreamer | 1 method | 19:59 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: I'm running tidy on some these ex C::IO modules, and it seems pretty good so far | 20:25 |
| @preaction | cool | 20:26 |
| @preaction | i've got addRevision deborked, running the whole test suite now. run_asset.t is still borked for some autocommit assets but not others | 20:26 |
| +perlDreamer | there's a lot of evil autocommit hackery in some Assets | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | and addRevision | 20:27 |
| +perlDreamer | the Gallery is the worst offender, iirc | 20:27 |
| @preaction | yeah, bur run_asset.t was running the same failures before and after my changes, the rest of the suite is failing hard though | 20:28 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 20:28 |
| @preaction | because it all assumes that tags need to be committed, but if you don't make the asset pending, it'll never be committed | 20:29 |
| @preaction | hmm... commit does things... | 20:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | who knows that evil that lies in the hearts of commit? | 20:33 |
| @preaction | i suppose i should default status to 'approved' instead of blank | 20:35 |
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| elnino | Thank you jigou!! | 21:18 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: finally got to the point of running the top level test suite for the Crud_removal branch | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | if it passes, it's done | 21:24 |
| @preaction | awesome | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | if it doesn't, well, we don't think about things like that | 21:24 |
| @preaction | i'm listening to Frank's talk on Scrumm, which is really interesting | 21:25 |
| +perlDreamer | I wouldn't mind doing that on 8 | 21:26 |
| @preaction | thinking about how to write an app to do the scrummaster stuff for me | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | having daily talks about a project helps keep me focused | 21:26 |
| @preaction | it might be nice if we both keep together as a team too, spend tuesday and only tuesday on 7, ending with the release, and the rest of the time on 8 | 21:27 |
| @preaction | so two of us on tuesday instead of one of us on monday/tuesday | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | what would you want me to do on Monday? | 21:28 |
| @preaction | 8 | 21:28 |
| elnino | jigou... Did you just add APREQ2_ReadLimit 1024M anywhere? or do I have to encapsulate it with some If statement? | 21:35 |
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| jigou | elnino: no "if" statement required. Give me a sec and I'll grab the whole chunk.... | 21:43 |
| elnino | I would think it would work in both the modperl.conf and the sitename.modperl.conf, since modperl includes all the sitename.modperl.conf files. But I don't know much about all this. | 21:45 |
| jigou | elnino: http://webgui.pastebin.com/0CWNEZ6V - lines 26-29 are how I've got it listed in my conf file. I included the rest to show that it's loading the mod_apreq2.so module | 21:49 |
| elnino | oh. I don't have mod_apreq2 being loaded anywhere, could that be my problem with my code and faulty wiki I wrote? =) | 21:51 |
| elnino | opps. sorry, it's there. | 21:51 |
| @preaction | has to be there or webgui would't work ;) | 21:52 |
| elnino | k I'm trying this all again on my serves. Thanks! | 21:53 |
| elnino | s/serves/servers | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | back up, locate wall, run forward again | 21:58 |
| +perlDreamer | time for a lunch break | 21:58 |
| @preaction | down to 60 open tickets for 8 | 21:59 |
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| @preaction | i just broke nearly all of webgui! yay! | 22:09 |
| @preaction | consensus: Can I get rid of the Style Wizard? | 22:27 |
| @preaction | also, would $session->tag work better than WebGUI::VersionTag->getWorking( $session );? | 22:29 |
| @tavisto | Softlayer just merged with The Planet | 22:30 |
| @preaction | yeah, that explained all their fuckups recently | 22:30 |
| elnino | preaction - I would be slightly sad to see the stylewizard go, but I understand why, and wouldn't hold it against you. =) | 22:34 |
| @preaction | you use it? it creates style templates i wouldn't wish on my worst enemies | 22:34 |
| jigou | lol @ preaction | 22:34 |
| elnino | It's a starting code for me. | 22:35 |
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| @preaction | okay, but we have 6 of them in there now, and i want at least 6 more | 22:37 |
| elnino | oh. I just use the very very basic one. I have a lady that just like to create the banners using xheader and then I pick colors via the style wizard and I'm done. But again I'm talking about 7.7.x | 22:39 |
| @preaction | ah, you should think about upgrading | 22:39 |
| elnino | lol. yes yes. | 22:42 |
| @preaction | consensus: Locked By sucks in how it works. Would it be better to have a "Locked For Group: <groupId>" that would restrict editing until someone in that group unlocked it? | 22:56 |
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| elnino | preaction - we don't use groups much, my users are too small. we're all in the content managers. | 22:59 |
| @preaction | in that case, locked by doesn't work at all. your content managers can join the tag and commit it, or work on it in that tag | 22:59 |
| elnino | I think it would be more helpful for it to tell us which version tag is locking it. | 22:59 |
| @preaction | it's like that for most things. locking only makes someone have to click more to lock something | 22:59 |
| @preaction | that's different, that's an actual edit lock, and it's important | 23:00 |
| @preaction | the "Lock" menu item just establishes an edit lock | 23:00 |
| @preaction | creates a version tag | 23:00 |
| elnino | oh then I don't know what youre referring to. | 23:00 |
| @preaction | but does not prevent anyone from actually editing the asset | 23:00 |
| elnino | are you referring to when a person doesn't have sufficent permissiosn to edit something? | 23:01 |
| @preaction | no, i mean when they DO have permissions, but the asset should still not be edited | 23:02 |
| @preaction | something important, for example | 23:02 |
| elnino | oh. I don't come across that situation, or use that feature. | 23:03 |
| @preaction | i'm betting most people don't, since it doesn't really do anything different that editing the asset normally doesn't do | 23:03 |
| @preaction | in fact, i'm pretty sure it's broken for any site that has autocommit turned on | 23:03 |
| elnino | but i see it in the menu! =) | 23:03 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: why does importAssetData make a special case if the passed-in properties contains status => "pending", shouldn't the revision being created always be pending? | 23:06 |
| @preaction | i'm asking because you're to git blame for it | 23:06 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I don't remember. Does the git commit contain a comment, changelog notice or test? | 23:11 |
| @preaction | says what the comment above says | 23:12 |
| @preaction | someone also just updated PerlMagick in CPAN | 23:13 |
| +perlDreamer | see bug #9686 | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | Importing a package twice locks assets forever. | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | if the asset is not pending, but the package is, then there's no tag attached to it, and it can't ever be committed? | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | basically, exporting pending asset is bad, and this is a workaround | 23:15 |
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| +perlDreamer | but that's all reverse engineering what I'm seeing there | 23:15 |
| @preaction | ahh | 23:16 |
| @preaction | so yes, the problem is that importPackage should force "pending", as we are doing a revision | 23:16 |
| @preaction | i guess i'll try to explain the new Version Tag and you stop me if anything sounds horrible: | 23:17 |
| * perlDreamer has to go to pick up kids | 23:17 | |
| +perlDreamer | but I'll backlog | 23:17 |
| @preaction | ok | 23:17 |
| @preaction | a www_ method or a user script creates a VersionTag. The version tag is then setWorking, which makes it the current context for other methods to use to add revisions | 23:18 |
| @preaction | other methods can then either use or ignore that context, or if they really feel it necessary, create their own context | 23:23 |
| @preaction | the end being that nobody is forced into any version tag at all, making shuffling around tags simple | 23:23 |
| @preaction | right now i'm just making the tests pass by adding the missing bits, but then i'm gonna go around and refactor all the ugliness | 23:24 |
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| elnino | soo. if my client has a gmail account. Can I setup the smtp server unders settings to smtp.gmail.com and it'll work? that doesn't seem right. | 00:04 |
| @preaction | gmail probably requires authentication | 00:05 |
| elnino | yes, and I just saw the rfe | 00:05 |
| @preaction | but you could set up sendmail to auth to the gmail server as it's forwarding | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, lots of methods depended on addRevision making a tag for them | 00:05 |
| +perlDreamer | how does it work now? | 00:05 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: addRevision does not make a tag for them, there wasn't many in the core, but there are a lot in the tests | 00:06 |
| @preaction | there will be an addRevisionToTag( $tag, props ) method created to continue the trend of adding convenience APIs over simple ones | 00:06 |
| +perlDreamer | brb | 00:07 |
| @preaction | still trying to figure out if I want $session->tag to create a new tag if there is none already, like getWorking does, or require that you pass in the tag if you want to create one | 00:07 |
| @preaction | i suppose it could be my $tag = $session->tag || $session->tag( properties for new tag ); | 00:07 |
| +perlDreamer | what about, $session-hasTag to see if one is currently active? | 00:10 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, two things | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | 1) we should probably do this over audio, since I'm still not getting it | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | 2) It would probably help to walk through several use cases | 00:15 |
| +perlDreamer | like, standard Asset add, autocommitted asset add, adding an asset to a parent that's pending, etc. | 00:15 |
| elnino | thanks preaction. bye | 00:15 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: i'm not done with everything, but I can push what I have. it breaks all the tests, but it should work | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | uh, don't break tests | 00:28 |
| +perlDreamer | then I won't be able to tell what breaks when I try to merge Crud | 00:29 |
| @preaction | ok | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | I just have no idea how the changes to the API are supposed to work | 00:29 |
| @preaction | i'll provide some examples, as there will now be an autocommitted role, not all assets will have getAutocommitWorkflowId | 00:30 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: do you think it's a problem if our accessors return unsafe references? | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | once that is resolved, I'm one test file away from Cruddiness in the core | 01:19 |
| +perlDreamer | foosball break | 01:56 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, if you have time, we could use a 4th | 01:56 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: i think it'll be fine if they return unsafe refs provided it's told in the docs | 01:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | yeah, I agree | 02:16 |
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| +perlDreamer | dinner time | 02:46 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction, there's something wrong with the Crud property metaclass, but it's easy to work around | 03:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I plan on merging in tomorrow, if I can figure out what's up | 03:51 |
| +perlDreamer | then, my master, you may assign me something else | 03:51 |
| +perlDreamer | together we shall rule the world, as father and son! | 03:51 |
| +perlDreamer | well, except that I'm older than you, and not wearing a mechanical breather | 03:52 |
| +perlDreamer | and neither of us can use the Force | 03:52 |
| @preaction | well, we do need a new demo system | 03:52 |
| @preaction | WebGUI::Demo and demo.psgi | 03:53 |
| @preaction | i'd like it to save a cookie so that it remembers what my demo site is and doesn't force me to remember | 03:53 |
| Haarg | with WebGUI as a CPAN module, how should i handle etc ? | 03:53 |
| +perlDreamer | but what if it expires? | 03:53 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: then it presents to me the form to create a new demo site | 03:54 |
| @preaction | i also want it to accept multiple config/database sets | 03:54 |
| @preaction | and let me choose | 03:54 |
| +perlDreamer | wouldn't it be better to do more core work? | 03:54 |
| +perlDreamer | there are templates to convert | 03:54 |
| +perlDreamer | and all sorts of other stuff | 03:54 |
| @preaction | if you want, sure. up to you | 03:54 |
| @preaction | but when we get a demo system going, we can have the General Public giving us bug reports | 03:55 |
| @preaction | so yes, perhaps we should wait until we're ready for bug reports | 03:55 |
| @preaction | Haarg: i don't know, perhaps #perl knows about precedent? | 03:56 |
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| Haarg | usually it seems to be /etc/blah or where when creating a site you would specify a location | 03:57 |
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| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 19:13 | |
| +perlDreamer | and ponders the plight of Moosie Crud | 19:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: will you be around in an hour or so? | 23:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I may have need of your advanced debugging and hacking skills, yet again | 23:33 |
| @preaction | surely | 23:34 |
| +perlDreamer | I figured it out | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | It's Test::Deep::NoTest | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | it exports a set method | 23:48 |
| +perlDreamer | which is breaking WebGUI::Asset::Wobject::Survey::Test | 23:49 |
| +perlDreamer | since WebGUI::Definition::Role::Object also has a set method | 23:58 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, Haarg, I'd like to replace Test::Deep::NoTest with Data::Compare or some similar module that doesn't pollute namespaces | 23:59 |
| +perlDreamer | objections or alternate modules? | 23:59 |
| @preaction | perhaps use Test::Deep::NoTest qw()? | 23:59 |
| @preaction | or Storable nfreeze? | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Fri Nov 12 2010 | ||
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| +perlDreamer | no | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | It exports everything | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll try it, but we'll see | 00:00 |
| +perlDreamer | grrr | 00:02 |
| +perlDreamer | time to test, merge and retest! | 00:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | tests pass, time to merge | 00:23 |
| @preaction | yay! | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | wow | 00:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's never happened before | 00:23 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r7dc51b6 / (25 files in 20 dirs): Merge branch 'Crud' into WebGUI8 (+22 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/9m9O51 | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | completely clean merge | 00:24 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: are all tests passing for you currently? | 00:24 |
| @preaction | no, because i broke them a lot | 00:24 |
| @preaction | but i DID fix the other tests | 00:24 |
| @preaction | before i went and broke them again | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, you'll have to let me know if what I see is any different from what you're seeing then | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | did you merge in this new code? | 00:25 |
| @preaction | no, i didn't want to screw you up | 00:25 |
| @preaction | but we can talk about the new addRevision/VersionTag stuff if you want | 00:25 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah! | 00:27 |
| +perlDreamer | give me a few minutes, then I'm good | 00:27 |
| @preaction | apparently i screwed something real bad, wgd tries to clear out the example assets and then hangs forever, unkillable | 00:28 |
| @preaction | or just weirdly hung | 00:29 |
| +perlDreamer | alright, I'm back | 00:35 |
| @preaction | so did you still want to skype about it? or should i just give some examples on how the new stuff works? | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | let's try some example, and I'll only suck down your time if I need it | 00:36 |
| +perlDreamer | so, for example, adding a new asset | 00:36 |
| @preaction | so if you don't care about tagging or committing, say you're building an install script, all you need now is addChild( { props} ) or addRevision( { props } ). the new asset/revision is automatically the most recent | 00:37 |
| @preaction | if you have an existing tag, you (currently) pass in the tagId and status => "pending" as properties | 00:38 |
| @preaction | and then you setVersionLock | 00:38 |
| @preaction | those are the two options. with and without tags | 00:38 |
| @preaction | now, the www_editSave method adds more to that | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | wait | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | what if I care about tagging and committing? | 00:38 |
| +perlDreamer | like in almost every test in the whole suite :) | 00:39 |
| @preaction | that's the second option. you give addChild or addRevision a tagId and a status => "pending" | 00:39 |
| @preaction | i'm currrently rewriting the test suite to do exactly that | 00:39 |
| @preaction | once i'm done, i'll finally have done enough to know how I want addRevisionToTag to work | 00:39 |
| @preaction | (the layer that does the same stuff for you) | 00:40 |
| @preaction | so right now, addRevision does only one thing: it adds a revision with the data you tell it to | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | so, before, revisions and tags were tied together. Now they're not? | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | you can have an untagged revision? | 00:40 |
| @preaction | you can have an untagged revision | 00:40 |
| +perlDreamer | is this something that we'll expose through the API to the user? | 00:41 |
| @preaction | how do you mean? | 00:41 |
| +perlDreamer | will the user be able to make untagged revisions? | 00:41 |
| @preaction | to the user, there will still always be a tag, for now, because no tags would break expectations | 00:41 |
| @preaction | i haven't gotten to that part yet, right now www_editSave and www_addSave have the bulk of the code I removed from addRevision() | 00:42 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:43 |
| @preaction | in the future, it may be that any asset that is autocommitted just by itself has no tag, but that may wreak havoc on any child assets added to that asset | 00:43 |
| @preaction | because in the future, approval will work on revisions, not on tags | 00:43 |
| @preaction | we're de-emphasizing tags for everything. tags will be used to group revisions for staging prior to commit, that's it | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | it almost sounds like a revision is something made by 1 person, where a tag can be shared among many CM's | 00:44 |
| @preaction | right | 00:44 |
| @preaction | a tag is becoming a bad name for it, Bricolage calls them Desks i believe, but Stages would be a better name | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's because Bricolage is built around a publishing industry model. | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | so, for the first stage of this project, it's just possible to have tagless revisions. It's not actually used anywhere. | 00:47 |
| @preaction | right | 00:47 |
| @preaction | even the upgrade system will create a tag, like it already does | 00:47 |
| @preaction | packages will still use tags | 00:48 |
| @preaction | cut and copy and paste still use them | 00:48 |
| @preaction | but like the rest of the stuff we're doing, we're just making simpler things possible | 00:48 |
| @preaction | now, the code to actually work with revisions and put them in tags is a little more verbose, but it's explicit rather than implicit | 00:49 |
| +perlDreamer | well, if addRev doesn't make one anymore, it would have to be | 00:49 |
| @preaction | so after i get the tests passing, i'm gonna go back and write new convenience APIs for addRevisionToTag( tag, props ), addChildToTag( tag, props ) | 00:49 |
| @preaction | and those methods will also help us with the cloneFromDb problem that tags have, the tag will keep the instance of the asset around | 00:49 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb51217 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Fix double my syntax warning in Asset.pm - http://bit.ly/cgL6A8 | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, so if two people are working on the same tag | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | and one changes an asset, his tag gets updated with the new asset | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | what about the other guy? | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | I guess on the next page fetch it will be fine | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | since the tag gets rebuilt | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | but, if these things are cached in memory anywhere, bad things will happen | 00:51 |
| @preaction | i was thinking more for the use-case that the tests have: create a bunch of assets, commit the tag, then refetch from the database | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | so now we build assets in a tag, commit the tag, and refetch from the tag? | 00:52 |
| @preaction | they won't be cached in memory, this would be more for when the tag and revisions are created and committed in the same request | 00:52 |
| @preaction | so maybe that one's a little off-the-mark | 00:53 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, it was starting to sound like address/address book caching, which was really bad | 00:53 |
| @preaction | eh, it's just in SQLAlchemy (python ORM) i can do exactly that, but i think that's because yeah, you technicaly get all the rows from the Session (which doubles as transaction handler) | 00:55 |
| @preaction | so when we move assets to an ORM, the ORM would handle the versioning/tagging, and then there'd be peace and no cloneFromDb needed | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure I believe that | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | objects will always need to be updated | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | unless we have singleton objects | 00:56 |
| @preaction | you'd ask the ORM "hey, get me this object" the ORM would look and say "oh, we have one of these already, with changes, so here." | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 00:57 |
| @preaction | or you'd ask "get me all objects matching these params", ORM says "hey, this ID looks familiar... why not take this one we have already?" | 00:57 |
| +perlDreamer | so code-wise, I make a tag, make assets and add them to the tag, then commit the tag, and get updated copies from the tag | 00:57 |
| @preaction | well no, right now you cloneFromDb like normal | 00:58 |
| +perlDreamer | okay | 01:00 |
| +perlDreamer | and the path where a tag can be skipped is possible, but not recommended now | 01:00 |
| @preaction | possible and recommended, just not done for any user interactions to prevent confusion | 01:00 |
| +perlDreamer | can we create content that cannot be rolled back, since that whole interface currently only looks at tags? | 01:01 |
| @preaction | individual asset revisions have always been deletable | 01:01 |
| +perlDreamer | sidebar: current test run with merged Crud http://gist.github.com/673389 | 01:02 |
| @preaction | CopyBranch.t and ExportHtml.t shouldn't be failing | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll look into those before calling this phase done | 01:04 |
| +perlDreamer | you're right, individual revisions have always been deletable, it's just that we've been pushing people toward manageRevisionsInTag, manageCommittedTags, etc. | 01:06 |
| @preaction | we have? | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah. The only way to get to the revisions for an asset is to edit the asset | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | and use the link on the right to see the other revisions | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | Version Tags is right in the Admin Console | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it's more prominent | 01:08 |
| @preaction | not in the new admin console | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, okay | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm guessing for most assets, the change in the API is seamless. | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | how much work is it to rework something with AutoCommit? | 01:10 |
| +perlDreamer | ExportHtml is most likely failing due to a leaky test | 01:12 |
| @preaction | autocommit assets don't need tags anymore, at all | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | not even for approval? | 01:13 |
| @preaction | nope, not with the new approval stuff when that's ready | 01:13 |
| +perlDreamer | so we'll be able to approve revisions, or tags? | 01:13 |
| @preaction | actually, revisions, not tags | 01:14 |
| +perlDreamer | so we'll just have to rewrite the Workflow Activities that use tags, to handle revisions instead | 01:14 |
| @preaction | somewhat. haven't gotten that far yet | 01:15 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, is the branch somewhere where it can be looked at? | 01:16 |
| @preaction | i can put it up in my fork | 01:16 |
| +perlDreamer | cool, that way I can make intelligent comments when you ask questions :) | 01:17 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, have you pulled recently into WebGUI8? If not, please don't. | 01:20 |
| +perlDreamer | CopyChildren shouldn't work | 01:21 |
| @preaction | ok | 01:21 |
| @preaction | and i can't push to my origin apparently | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | CopyBranch sends this URL: /?op=assetHelper;className=WebGUI::AssetHelper::CopyBranch;method=copy;with=children; | 01:21 |
| +perlDreamer | and CopyBranch has this check: childrenOnly => $session->form->get('with') eq 'Children', | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | so it can't be passing | 01:22 |
| @preaction | was passing for me | 01:22 |
| @preaction | weird. shouldn't be capitalized like that | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 01:22 |
| +perlDreamer | this happened during the merge of WebGUI 7.10.4 in | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | so it's due to Fork | 01:23 |
| @preaction | i knew we should've went with spoons | 01:23 |
| +perlDreamer | spork! | 01:24 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8186eba / lib/WebGUI/AssetHelper/CopyBranch.pm : form param "with" should be all lower case. - http://bit.ly/duiYEB | 01:25 |
| @preaction | for some reason the tests are really intense now | 01:25 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: which Middleware sucks up the log warnings? | 02:10 |
| @preaction | using WebGUI::Test::Mechanize? | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | and I want my log output logged | 02:10 |
| @preaction | look inside it, it does it itself | 02:10 |
| +perlDreamer | ERROR: Problems talking to master daemon process. Please restart the web server. | 02:11 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith: poke | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | ping | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | plead | 02:12 |
| Getty | hmpf... there is a news in germany about some dolphin using ipad vs. toughbook, yes the news sounds fascinating BUT IS IT SO HARD TO DELIVER A VIDEO?!?!?!? | 02:37 |
| Getty | and i cant find anything on the net.... no really we are in a time where every shit is recorded, but this really really fascinating stuff isnt..... <headshaking> | 02:40 |
| @preaction | would it be overkill to have a netbook and a laptop next to me at the same time? | 02:41 |
| Getty | ....... now i'm even more pissed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmiPDMt-ZTc | 02:41 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: are the webgui tests more resource-hogging to you recently? | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | they run longer, but that's to be expected with run_* | 02:42 |
| @preaction | they used to get done in like 15 minutes, now it's been over an hour | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | an hour? | 02:42 |
| @preaction | run_* not enabled | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | that's too long | 02:42 |
| @preaction | maybe it's just because there are a lot of failures? | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | Files=357, Tests=17897, 1177 wallclock secs | 02:42 |
| +perlDreamer | just shy of 20 minutes | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | and that's with DEBUG enabled, too | 02:43 |
| @preaction | i'm just gonna keep it going to see how long it takes | 02:43 |
| +perlDreamer | you could try tailing the prove output, and see if it's in a loop | 02:43 |
| @preaction | i think i left it on overnight, a test had hung for the entire time | 02:43 |
| * perlDreamer has had that happen before | 02:43 | |
| +perlDreamer | yeah | 02:44 |
| @preaction | no, it's still going for now, i haven't reached the recurring calendar workflow one yet | 02:44 |
| @preaction | do you think people will dislike me if i trim down the default assets? like gallery having only one view instead of three? and calendar only having three instead of 5? | 02:45 |
| @preaction | gallery albums don't need "Default", "Thumbnails", and "Slideshow", they only need a "Show All" feature and javascript | 02:46 |
| @preaction | also, usually my computer is not completely unresponsive while running the tests, this is unusable now... | 02:46 |
| +perlDreamer | I've never had that problem before | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you're looping | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | calendar has 5 views? | 02:48 |
| +perlDreamer | month, week, list day and...? | 02:48 |
| @preaction | oh, right, last tab is search | 02:49 |
| @preaction | it's just, when you have a Calendar, depending on the number of events, you either want to see the Week view, the Month view, or a List. Day is useless | 02:50 |
| @preaction | but if you get down to it, it's just "Dated" and "List" view | 02:50 |
| @preaction | oh, and those print ones have to go | 02:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | dial back that code knife dude, we need to finish stuff up on the boards first | 02:51 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe we need to setup a survey to see what people think? | 02:51 |
| @preaction | i know, i'm just imaginating | 02:51 |
| * perlDreamer envisions preaction putting on his MLK hat | 02:52 | |
| +perlDreamer | "I have a dream" | 02:52 |
| @preaction | gallery i know i can get rid of the extra views. calendar might be more difficult | 02:52 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not really Gallery, it's Gallery Album that has all the views | 02:54 |
| @preaction | right | 02:54 |
| +perlDreamer | you may kill those with impunity | 02:54 |
| @preaction | and then we might as well allow albums of albums, but then all we have is folders, no? | 02:54 |
| @preaction | oh, and merge Image and Photo too, and make Gallery work with any File type | 02:55 |
| +perlDreamer | I s'pose | 02:55 |
| +perlDreamer | but recursing up the folders to find the Gallery, which holds all the configurations, might not be very fun | 02:56 |
| @preaction | $gallery = $self->getLineage(['ancestors],{className => 'WebGUI::Asset::wobject::GalleryAlbum'}); | 02:56 |
| +perlDreamer | is that the lowest one, or the highest one? | 02:57 |
| @preaction | it can't be under two | 02:57 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 02:58 |
| +perlDreamer | you wouldn't think that a meatball sub would translate well to burrito form, but you'd be wrong | 03:48 |
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| elnino | Hey! | 06:56 |
| elnino | I'm getting a Couldn't call method process on asset for url: contact_us.php Root cause: Can't locate object method "create" via package "WebGUI::Mail::Send" at /home/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/DataForm.pm line 1074. | 06:56 |
| elnino | why would that be? create does exist | 06:57 |
| elnino | and I tried sending email via the group manager and same thing. | 06:57 |
| elnino | v 7.7.33 | 06:58 |
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| elnino | never mind. nite | 07:13 |
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| SDuensin | Friday! For real this time! | 16:36 |
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| Getty | and made more people aware of WebGUI, pushed them to test the demo | 17:29 |
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| +perlDreamer | are we having fun yet? | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, should I work on debugging those two failing tests, or pick up a new project? | 19:13 |
| +bartjol | fun? well, it is weekend | 19:15 |
| +perlDreamer | only in The Netherlands | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | here it is still Friday | 19:16 |
| +bartjol | and Russia | 19:16 |
| +bartjol | and most things east of us | 19:16 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: new project, just keep moving | 19:17 |
| +bartjol | have a nice weekend | 19:18 |
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| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcfb53ff / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Handle exceptions thrown when rolling back a version tag. - http://bit.ly/axj5hY | 19:21 |
| CIA-67 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ra1571b9 / t/Workflow/Activity/NotifyAboutLowStock.t : Explicit class for addToCleanup, otherwise the debugger fails. - http://bit.ly/9GZMMZ | 19:21 |
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| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll start working on the undotting | 19:24 |
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| neil | Re. ticket - Strange spectre problem (#11444), http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11444 - where is Operation/Cron? | 19:45 |
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| Haarg | WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/Cron.pm | 19:49 |
| Haarg | it looks like that caused other problems though so i wouldn't trust it | 19:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | not to disagree with the honored hacker from Wisconsin, but the fix works | 19:53 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't delete your cron jobs anymore, and spectre doesn't hang | 19:53 |
| neil | I will try it. | 20:14 |
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| neil | I have installed WebGUI on a VPS and I'm looking for info on setting up email - I also have Webmin installed. | 20:20 |
| @preaction | neil: the default config should work fine, provided your VPS has an smtp daemon running | 20:33 |
| @preaction | redhat/centos it works out of the box, not sure what debian/ubuntu does | 20:33 |
| neil | VPS is on CentOS 5.5 32 bit | 20:34 |
| @preaction | then you're running sendmail. provided you don't allow port 22 incoming from outside, you'll be fine | 20:34 |
| @preaction | if you want local mail delivery, then you'll have to open the firewall and then you'll want to do some lockdown | 20:34 |
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| scrottie0 | dammit. stupid Internet. | 20:40 |
| scrottie0 | what did I miss this morning? anything juicy? | 20:41 |
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| scrottie0 | something has to trigger it? | 20:53 |
| scrottie0 | ack | 20:53 |
| @preaction | syn? | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | nack | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | rst. | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | grep | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | awk | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | sed | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | vi | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | ex | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | ls | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | rm | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | fortune | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | talk | 20:58 |
| +perlDreamer | scrottie0 needs a new haircut! | 20:58 |
| scrottie0 | I should have gotten the $20-to-support-the-EFF mohawk at DEFCON! | 20:59 |
| scrottie0 | purple at no extra charge! | 20:59 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, you rock the 'hawk | 20:59 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I think you need to prioritize the 30 Blocking/Required tasks | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | we won't get them all done by the time 8 is released | 21:08 |
| @preaction | i thought they were prioritized | 21:09 |
| @preaction | and we only need to get the API freeze ones done first | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | anything labeled 8 beta should be done first? | 21:10 |
| @preaction | no, API freeze | 21:10 |
| @preaction | first we freeze, then we 8 beta, then we 8 stable | 21:10 |
| @preaction | once all the freeze stuff is done, we release 8 beta. then we work on 8 beta tasks until they're done, then 8 stable | 21:10 |
| @preaction | no, wait, anyway, work on the API freeze ones first, they're absolutely necessary | 21:11 |
| @preaction | test ones don't really matter | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | all righty, then I'll have a go at $session->var => $session | 21:11 |
| @preaction | ok | 21:11 |
| @preaction | then next moving the required profile fields to the users table might be good | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | hua! | 21:12 |
| scrottie0 | three activities in the workflow; each doing a `wall` inside a screen session with eight virtual terminals; each virtual terminal generating an activity alert in screen. whee, fireworks! | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | w00t! | 21:20 |
| scrottie0 | I still miss metalic droning and a rolling screen full of flashing color patterns. | 21:20 |
| scrottie0 | nothing crashes like an Atari 400/800/XL/XE. | 21:20 |
| scrottie0 | except maybe a C=64. | 21:20 |
| +perlDreamer | dang, mucho crufto in Session::Var | 21:27 |
| @preaction | indeed! | 21:27 |
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| @preaction | that's why it's Required ;) | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | well then | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | let's see how catastrophically I can break wG this time :) | 21:28 |
| @preaction | be liberal with your axe eugene | 21:28 |
| * perlDreamer is even thinking Moose | 21:28 | |
| @preaction | that's something we can do later | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, there's only 89 files to update after making this change | 21:30 |
| @preaction | nice, my addRevision change was 96 files | 21:30 |
| @preaction | and it's been two days of test-reworking ;) | 21:30 |
| @preaction | the userProfile / users table thing shouldn't be bad at all | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | we only have 1 required field right now, email | 21:31 |
| @preaction | but i am gonna deprecate some usages of existing APIs, to try to uniform everything up right ways | 21:31 |
| @preaction | no, there are others, used by CS and things | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | so anything used internally should be considered required | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | language pref | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | timezone | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | avatar | 21:31 |
| @preaction | right, because if they don't exist, webgui will break catastrophically | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and do they come out of the profile, and into the Account screens too? | 21:32 |
| @preaction | no, they're still "Profile Fields", but they're stored in the other table. the existing User.pm already does this | 21:32 |
| +perlDreamer | we'll talk more about it when I get there | 21:34 |
| @preaction | kk | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | unless you get there first | 21:34 |
| @preaction | i might actually, but i might take "FormBuilder must be used everywhere" instead | 21:34 |
| @preaction | because that's gonna be a bit of work :( | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, and I think you'll need to do Form::Control -> template vars first | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | since there's a lot of that you can skip if you do it | 21:34 |
| @preaction | yeah | 21:35 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Scott Walters master * ree80f8d / (lib/WebGUI/Workflow.pm lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Instance.pm): Docpatch to Workflow / Workflow::Instance so that hopefully people have some chance of figuring out what they need to do to get this puppy to roll. - http://bit.ly/bgt8Lt | 22:50 |
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| mducharme-laptop | hey | 22:57 |
| scrottie0 | hey, hey, hey, it's phat mducharme-laptop! | 23:02 |
| mducharme-laptop | hm? | 23:06 |
| mducharme-laptop | anybody seen perldreamer lately? | 23:06 |
| Haarg | he was here earlier but I don't know when he'll be around again. | 23:11 |
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| mducharme-laptop | we want to hire someone to do some perl development for us, so I thought of him | 23:15 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Nov 13 2010 | ||
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| scrottie0 | mducharme-laptop, I'm guessing he took off a bit early on this lovely Friday. I expect he'll be here bright and early Monday morning. | 00:37 |
| mducharme-laptop | ok | 00:39 |
| mducharme-laptop | it's not lovely here, it's starting to snow | 00:39 |
| mducharme-laptop | lol | 00:39 |
| scrottie0 | that sounds lovely to me. | 00:39 |
| scrottie0 | but I've been keeping an eye on skibonk.com lately. | 00:39 |
| mducharme-laptop | I'd love to live somewhere where it didn't snow | 00:52 |
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| @preaction | does mysql treat != on a key column as well as it treats =? | 01:20 |
| @preaction | performance-wise, that is | 01:20 |
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| @preaction | still something like 50 test scripts failing for me :( | 02:06 |
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| @preaction | http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/11/13/0029203/CDE-mdash-Making-Linux-Portability-Easy?from=rss <- this is damn awesome | 03:45 |
| scrottie0 | http://bstj.bell-labs.com/oldfiles/year.1922/BSTJ.1922.0102.html <-- this is pretty damn awesome too =) | 04:11 |
| scrottie0 | I've used statifier in the past but it falls down past a certain point. it fails to make a static binary out of firefox, for example. | 04:12 |
| scrottie0 | run-time dynamic library loading in general gets it. | 04:12 |
| Getty | btw you guys should actually make a report how many bugs you fix per week, cause if you see the stats of facebook against that, i guess you laugh your ass up ;) | 04:12 |
| scrottie0 | still really, really handy though | 04:12 |
| @preaction | cde says it fixes that problem | 04:12 |
| scrottie0 | that's going in my toy box then. | 04:12 |
| Getty | how many coder they have? no idea, but: 24 bugs in 7 days fixed.... ;) | 04:12 |
| @preaction | Getty: our changelog is released every week, and it's just colin working monday and tuesday really | 04:13 |
| @preaction | so in two days, we fix 1/4 the bugs that facebook fixes in 7. well, if they have only one coder, then that makes sense | 04:13 |
| Getty | LOL ;) its hilarious, or? | 04:14 |
| Getty | also good stats, they replied on around 160 threads in their developer forum, in 7 days | 04:14 |
| Getty | (against 615 new topics generated) | 04:14 |
| Getty | btw in general they have 4,286 bugs open 8-) | 04:14 |
| scrottie0 | really large codebases can be a house of cards. you breathe and you've created 5,000 subtle bugs. moving very carefully and slowly is advisible. | 04:15 |
| @preaction | well, how many are real bugs? and how many are people just pitching a bitch? | 04:15 |
| Getty | they produced a minefield by themself | 04:15 |
| scrottie0 | that's part of the joy of working on a codebase you can fit in your brain. | 04:15 |
| scrottie0 | you can go commando like perlDreamer does. | 04:15 |
| Getty | preaction: they are all unchecked, so "who knows?" | 04:15 |
| @preaction | exactly | 04:15 |
| Getty | preaction: yeah but if they dont check them its even more evil | 04:15 |
| scrottie0 | firefox is an interesting case. they have several year old bugs in their tracker. | 04:16 |
| Getty | preaction: in 7 days they just reproduced (and so approved) 31 bugs | 04:16 |
| scrottie0 | bugs are almost more likely to get obsoleted by time than fixed. | 04:16 |
| Getty | yeah true | 04:16 |
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| Getty | still its hilarious for such a huge "empire" | 04:16 |
| scrottie0 | that's the result of unchecked growth. facebook I'm sure exemplifies that. | 04:16 |
| Getty | i got a like-worm in my account, which instantly make you like it if you browse against it.... reported on all channels so that this get stopped.... | 04:17 |
| Getty | but since 1 month or so, nothing | 04:17 |
| scrottie0 | Samy is my hero. | 04:17 |
| scrottie0 | g'night everyone. I gotta go drink Frank a beer. | 04:17 |
| scrottie0 | very important. | 04:17 |
| Getty | thumbsup | 04:17 |
| @preaction | enjoy | 04:18 |
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| Getty | just curious, when we have webgui 8 you said the admin interface is very flexible, right? | 04:39 |
| @preaction | every bit of it is overridable through either plugin or template | 04:39 |
| Getty | if you mean flexible, can we talk about THAT MASSIVE flexible, that i could actually totally make it lets say a JSON interface, so that i can use some application, or "phone app" to manage it? | 04:40 |
| @preaction | when we release, i will be looking for ideas to make it easier to extend. i want WebGUI to be the stepping stone to a completely-custom site | 04:40 |
| Getty | then give the json interface and make an iphone/android compatible management console | 04:40 |
| Getty | :D | 04:40 |
| Getty | you would kick ass | 04:40 |
| @preaction | much of the new Admin is async with JS. you could call those same APIs, yes | 04:41 |
| Getty | like also abstracting the webpage from the layout | 04:41 |
| Getty | so that the user is independent of the layout of the page | 04:41 |
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| @preaction | there's currently no way to save assets using just JS, you need a form post. there's also currently no way to get the fields and possible values, you'd need the form itself | 04:41 |
| Getty | that woud massivly increase the power for the writers/fillers of the page | 04:41 |
| Getty | form post and js doesnt excluse? | 04:42 |
| @preaction | but those two things are on my list, i do want a JSON API to the Asset system. the User system already has one | 04:42 |
| Getty | do you plan yourself to make applications for phones or stuff for the management? | 04:42 |
| Getty | or could i catch up that strategy direction? | 04:42 |
| @preaction | no, that is not in my mandate | 04:42 |
| @preaction | i will make JSON APIs for any app you want to make though | 04:42 |
| Getty | yeah i guess i will start with a Windows GUI app, so that i can easier test | 04:43 |
| Getty | and if i see, that we can do anything with the app | 04:43 |
| Getty | then next step would be porting to devices | 04:43 |
| Getty | even tho, i dont know if i would ever make by myself iphone and ipad app | 04:44 |
| Getty | i just hate apple to much to buy me one to develop them, i would puke at myself every day | 04:44 |
| Getty | actually i think i would some day take a knife and cut in my arms | 04:44 |
| @preaction | adobe AIR apps can target iphone and ipad | 04:44 |
| Getty | yeah right | 04:44 |
| Getty | good idea | 04:44 |
| Getty | very good idea, cause i know a friend who is CRAZY on adobe AIR | 04:44 |
| Getty | i should talk with him | 04:44 |
| Getty | but first we prove (when its there) that we can all do with a windows app | 04:45 |
| @preaction | i like it too, AS3 is nice (it's just classy JS). as long as you avoid the flash IDE you're fine | 04:45 |
| Getty | hehe :) | 04:45 |
| Getty | its somehow funny | 04:45 |
| Getty | in the past i found adobe more an enemy then something i had to protect | 04:45 |
| Getty | now, apple "revealed" for me what good adobe did to the communiyt | 04:45 |
| Getty | flash wasnt a blocker like anyone suggested | 04:45 |
| @preaction | if you are going to build a JSON API to getting asset properties, getting field information, and saving new asset revisions, you might want to talk to me. i can design something if you can implement it | 04:46 |
| Getty | and its funny that apple made me realize that | 04:46 |
| @preaction | adobe is still a horrible company. Flash IDE is not worth $700 | 04:46 |
| Getty | hehe, they did something | 04:46 |
| Getty | they moved something | 04:46 |
| @preaction | but you do have flex and other free tools for swf, so it's fine | 04:46 |
| Getty | technology quality was sadly never the point for a movement of a product ;) | 04:47 |
| Getty | elsewhere webgui wouldnt be so small in usage amount against typo3 | 04:47 |
| Getty | actually quality of a product is always AGAINST high user amount | 04:47 |
| Getty | (see facebook) ;) | 04:47 |
| @preaction | or drupal or any other system. why did mediawiki win out when there are far better wiki solutions out there? | 04:47 |
| @preaction | facebook won the quality battle against myspace | 04:48 |
| Getty | the wordpress coder THEMSELF said they wanted to change to perl already 3 years ago | 04:48 |
| Getty | but they cant | 04:48 |
| Getty | cause there is no api for modules or something so that there was a hope that much modules are transfered over | 04:48 |
| Getty | cause ... everyone just fucked around with the vars of the core directly | 04:48 |
| @preaction | but that's how wordpress was built to function: templates are what we would call plugins | 04:48 |
| Getty | many important wordpress plugins are just still running cause noone changes the core code that they modify brutally with direct access | 04:48 |
| Getty | i had a deeper talk with a wordpress coder at cebit ;) | 04:49 |
| @preaction | webgui has a clear seperation: template does this, template does not do this. there's nothing a wordpress "template" cannot do | 04:49 |
| Getty | its just hilarious | 04:49 |
| Getty | so thats why i try to push on perl | 04:50 |
| Getty | sad that we dont have the sponsorship for getting to cebit this year | 04:50 |
| Getty | end of the month the "last change" is really over to get a booth :( | 04:50 |
| Getty | its a bit of a shame | 04:50 |
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| Getty | preaction: still awake? | 07:01 |
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| @preaction | Getty: yes? | 08:45 |
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| --- Log opened Sat Nov 13 15:54:24 2010 | ||
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| @preaction | so with firesheep in the wild, we could use more information to uniquely identify a browser, so that only one browser can have the same session | 21:09 |
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| +Radix_ | couldn't you just make sure all user authentication/cookie passing is done via https ? | 04:59 |
| @preaction | that would mean all traffic would need https, which is fine sure | 05:00 |
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| SDuensin | Morning, Interwebs! | 16:33 |
| @khenn | Another day on the information highway! | 17:10 |
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| elnino | OH! since when do wg create their own sitemap.xml? | 17:36 |
| @preaction | 7.8 or 7.9 i think | 17:44 |
| elnino | ok. And what is the keywords field for under the metatag? | 17:57 |
| elnino | ...meta data tab.. | 17:57 |
| elnino | never mind | 17:57 |
| +bartjol | :) | 17:59 |
| elnino | ok. now I do have a question. | 18:00 |
| +bartjol | fire away | 18:00 |
| elnino | I need to differentiate between h1 and title. | 18:00 |
| elnino | I created a field in content profiling. | 18:00 |
| elnino | but it isn't showing up on any of my pagelayout's tabs.. I thought they showed up on the metadata tab. | 18:01 |
| elnino | good grief. never mind. | 18:02 |
| +bartjol | ? | 18:03 |
| +bartjol | still no question? now I demand one | 18:03 |
| elnino | lol | 18:05 |
| elnino | OK NOW I do have a question. | 18:13 |
| elnino | How do I use h1??? I'd have to modify ALL the default pagelayout templates!!! | 18:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: last week you suggested you and I teaming up and 8'ing 2 days a week, and 7'ing 1 day a week | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | you want to try that this week? | 18:16 |
| @preaction | sure, which day would you prefer be 7 day? | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | tomorrow | 18:18 |
| elnino | ok. So I ran in to this before, | 18:19 |
| @preaction | okay, i've got a few administrative tasks to work on today, but otherwise i should have most of the addRevision tests I borked working by end of today so I can move on | 18:19 |
| * perlDreamer will start excising Var | 18:19 | |
| elnino | I created content profiling. I created a metatitle field. So use for the <title> tag instead of using your property tab title, because that is being used for >h1> | 18:20 |
| elnino | so I put <title><tmpl_var metatitle></title> into my style template, and it's not reading my metadata. | 18:20 |
| elnino | How do I do this? | 18:20 |
| +perlDreamer | is the metatitle for the style template itself, on an asset inside it? | 18:21 |
| elnino | metatitle is a content profile variable defined on the pagelayout. | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | in the style template, it doesn't have access to the template variables for the asset it's styling | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | you get body.content | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | head.tags | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | and so on | 18:22 |
| @preaction | but in the Extra HEAD Tags of the template you have access to the metadata vars, no? | 18:23 |
| elnino | That's what it sounds like, preaction, but I think I tried that, but I'll try it again. | 18:23 |
| @preaction | i would love to see name="Value" parameters for macros... | 18:24 |
| * preaction makes a note for 8.1 "Back to Basics" | 18:24 | |
| +perlDreamer | how about if we go away from macros completely and use native TT semantics? | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | so we don't have to have a macro processor anymore | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and multiple stages of interpolation | 18:26 |
| elnino | I put <title><tmpl_var metatitle></title> in my extra head tags, and that is exactly what I see. It didn't evaluate the template varaible. | 18:27 |
| elnino | my title is now literally: "<tmpl_var metatitle>" | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | extraHeadTags for the layout, or for the style template? | 18:27 |
| elnino | page layout | 18:27 |
| @preaction | or for the layout template? you know i don't even quite know how that whole thing works :p | 18:28 |
| elnino | page layout asset. | 18:28 |
| elnino | I didn't want to get into modifying all my default pagelayout templates. | 18:29 |
| @preaction | iirc it's in the template that those things are parsed | 18:29 |
| elnino | I got into an arguement with someone why we needed to separate h1 from title. Right now, the title property for any asset does both. that isn't practicle for seo purposes. | 18:29 |
| elnino | grr. | 18:29 |
| elnino | so I have to modify all my default page layout tempaltes? | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: new Session API for Varless follows | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | session->open: new session | 18:30 |
| @preaction | elnino: well, you'd be better off setting your page layouts to new templates | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | session->close; #really a pause | 18:30 |
| +perlDreamer | session->end; # nuke it | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | session->get('\w+'); #access data | 18:31 |
| elnino | then I lose out on the updates you make to the default templates. | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | also, I think we should stick in a dummy sub var {return $_[0] }; | 18:31 |
| @preaction | and ->new is resume a session? | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | ->new is resume old, or start a new one | 18:31 |
| +perlDreamer | just like now | 18:31 |
| @preaction | actually, we could make it even easier for people and use WebGUI::Deprecate | 18:31 |
| @preaction | i have to refactor Deprecate to add some more utilities like "warn_deprecated" which only warns once, and listens to an environment variable to decide to warn or not | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think it would work, since we're merging objects | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | there is no old to call anymore | 18:32 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd like to deprecate $session->var->get | 18:33 |
| +perlDreamer | and tell them to use $session->get | 18:33 |
| @preaction | well, it'd be easier to deprecate $session->var and have it return $_[0] as you said, the same result really | 18:33 |
| +perlDreamer | would you balk at me using Class::Accessor to build methods for the properties, instead of using ->get() ? | 18:35 |
| @preaction | no need to add new things for now, we can do that later | 18:35 |
| elnino | can we make the page macro be able to retrieve meta properties? | 18:38 |
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| @preaction | it would be possible, yes | 18:38 |
| elnino | then I can call my content profile varaible from my style template - because that is how it already builds the <title> tag, it by default uses ^page(title); | 18:39 |
| +perlDreamer | wow, $session->var's encapsulation is respected.. | 18:40 |
| elnino | I love webgui untill my clients hire a seo consultant. | 18:55 |
| elnino | Any suggestions on providing alt tags to links generated in a navigation asset? | 18:55 |
| +perlDreamer | change the template? | 18:55 |
| elnino | yes, but where do I define the value I PUT into the alt property? | 18:56 |
| elnino | content profiling again? | 18:56 |
| elnino | I dont' think i'll be able to read it. | 18:56 |
| +perlDreamer | that's right | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | only core asset properties are available in the loop | 18:57 |
| +perlDreamer | which is why we should have global userDefined variables | 18:58 |
| elnino | I think in the past I used summary. which messes up the purpose of that field. | 18:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | that merge was entirely too easy... | 19:06 |
| +perlDreamer | time to update tests and go boom | 19:06 |
| elnino | anyone know why h1 isn't used?\ | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't used where? | 19:09 |
| elnino | nope. | 19:09 |
| elnino | not that I can see. | 19:09 |
| elnino | pagelayouts start with h2 | 19:09 |
| elnino | articles titles are h3 | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't that part of the old, abandoned TWG spec? | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | h1 reserved for site name, perhaps? | 19:09 |
| +perlDreamer | i'd check their wiki and forums for that | 19:10 |
| elnino | we have an abondoned twg spec? | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | we were abandoned by twg | 19:11 |
| elnino | =lol | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | it makes me quite angry | 19:11 |
| elnino | that is pretty sad. they just dispersed? | 19:12 |
| elnino | a lot of good work came out of it. | 19:12 |
| elnino | I'm glad the templates were all cleaned up, but I never understood the abondnment of h1 | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | to paraphrase, "There's too much work and we don't want to do it". | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | but that's a harsh characterization of good people | 19:13 |
| SDuensin | So, the Template Slacking Group? :-) | 19:14 |
| +perlDreamer | like I said, it's a harsh characterization of good people | 19:16 |
| +perlDreamer | not everyone is bent like I am, who love to write tests, POD and maintain code | 19:16 |
| dreamersgirl | slacking is fun? | 19:16 |
| SDuensin | Yea. Templating WG is a heck of a project. | 19:17 |
| elnino | well, depends on what they were going to accomplish. They did a good job cleaning the templates up and makeing them consistant at least. | 19:18 |
| elnino | If their purpose is to make things look pretty, THAT is a big job. | 19:19 |
| elnino | I think the one an only mistake is reserving h1. | 19:19 |
| +perlDreamer | but they didn't clean up ALL the templates | 19:21 |
| elnino | what is left? | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | Lots | 19:21 |
| +perlDreamer | they fixed Article, File, Image, Page, Layout | 19:22 |
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| elnino | perlDreamer, is there an rfe for userdefined variables? | 20:19 |
| @preaction | yes, but why do you need them? | 20:19 |
| +perlDreamer | people need arbitrary scratch variables for assets | 20:20 |
| elnino | read my next wiki, and you'll know why. | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | but we've debated this before | 20:20 |
| @preaction | isn't that what metadata is for? | 20:20 |
| elnino | to be published soon. | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | metadata isn't exposed by default to all templates | 20:20 |
| @preaction | because metadata sucks but can be fixed | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | or if you do a get | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | we don't have to fix it though | 20:20 |
| +perlDreamer | adding userDefined vars is much simpler than fixing a sucky system | 20:21 |
| @preaction | and much less useful. marginalizing metadata even more, might as well just remove it completely | 20:21 |
| +perlDreamer | that works for me | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | we could make it an addon | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | so that you don't have to carry it around | 20:22 |
| +perlDreamer | what metadata was meant to be, Keywords are | 20:22 |
| elnino | my guess is that the metadata was created for the meta tags right? | 20:23 |
| elnino | what got all confusing is that now the summary field is for meta descriptions, and keywords is for meta keywords. | 20:23 |
| elnino | so why have meta data? | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | no, it was created to track you through the site | 20:23 |
| elnino | for other meta tags. | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's why it's called content profiling | 20:23 |
| +perlDreamer | see the AOI macros | 20:23 |
| elnino | fair enough | 20:24 |
| +perlDreamer | we've abused it to do other, useful things | 20:24 |
| elnino | then meta data should be "content profiing" only. | 20:24 |
| elnino | meta tags should be in the "extra heads" | 20:24 |
| elnino | and global user defined variables should be yet another "thing" | 20:24 |
| elnino | they kinda all got mixed up. in my opinion. | 20:24 |
| elnino | http://www.webgui.org/wiki/setting-up-for-seo | 20:25 |
| elnino | This is the second time an SEO expert has been hired, and they ask us to do what are impossible in webgui. unless we have userdefined varaibles OR additional property fields. | 20:25 |
| +perlDreamer | or, like preaction suggests, exposing metadata to $asset->get() | 20:26 |
| @preaction | or custom macros | 20:27 |
| elnino | Or that is definately a good option. Woudl that allow ^page macro to see them too? | 20:27 |
| @preaction | yes | 20:27 |
| @preaction | it just may contain other, unforeseen consequences | 20:29 |
| @preaction | you could just fix the page macro to try metadata too | 20:29 |
| elnino | I would, but it isn't my server. no custom code allowed. =) | 20:29 |
| +perlDreamer | even if we WRE it in, you'd have to upgrade to beta | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | that may not be an option either | 20:30 |
| elnino | not in this particluar case. | 20:30 |
| elnino | I'm trying to fire my client. =) | 20:30 |
| elnino | so I dont' have to deal with these limitations. | 20:30 |
| elnino | comments/corrections on my very confusing wiki are most welcome! | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: so far, moving Var is pretty smooth | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm moving tests from Var.t into Session.t bit by bit, and correcting and updating | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | then I'll be ready for find .... xargs perl -pi -e | 21:03 |
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| Trex___ | Hey folks. I have a "bug or feature" question about WebGUI's trash... | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | lay it on us, Trex__ | 22:46 |
| Trex___ | If you delete a file but don't purge it from the trash, the file remains accessible via the direct URL... | 22:46 |
| +perlDreamer | now, do you mean the File asset, or the file stored inside the File asset? | 22:47 |
| Trex___ | The file itself. | 22:47 |
| elnino | I think there is a bug report about that. I think I've found that it remains even after you purge it. | 22:47 |
| +perlDreamer | it shouldn't remain after you purge it | 22:47 |
| +perlDreamer | if you can show us how to duplicate that bug, we'll fix it | 22:48 |
| Trex___ | I did a quick search of the bugs list and didn't see anything that looked like this. | 22:48 |
| elnino | I'll look in mine. | 22:48 |
| Trex___ | I'm not talking about after purging but before -- you want to delete a file from general access on the website, but if, say, Google has cached the direct URL already, people can still find it. | 22:48 |
| +perlDreamer | Trex___, how would mod_proxy know what the state of a file in the file system is, with respect to its Asset? | 22:48 |
| Trex___ | Via the .wgaccess file, I would presume. | 22:49 |
| Trex___ | Even if the file was generally visible before, I would presume that if it moves to the trash, a .wgaccess file would be added so that it wasn't generally available. | 22:49 |
| elnino | is google grabbing it's uploads/ path or are they caching the webgui url? | 22:51 |
| Trex___ | Our content managers assume that if they delete something that it becomes unavailable to general viewers as well -- but that's not the case. The file remains available and sometimes in Google's cache until the 30 day (default) purge. | 22:51 |
| Trex___ | This is the direct, /uploads/ path. | 22:51 |
| elnino | I don't have a bug report about that. =) | 22:51 |
| @preaction | for now you'll have to ask them to purge it. when it's fixed, you'll also need to make sure mod_proxy forwards requests for any uploads/ path that has a .wgaccess file (which the latest WRE config does) | 22:52 |
| Trex___ | By "when it's fixed" does this mean it's a bug not a feature? :) | 22:52 |
| @preaction | it's a deviation from expected behavior. the asset itself is unreachable, but the storage location is still fine and dandy | 22:53 |
| Trex___ | OK, I'm happy to file a bug report on it if you haven't started one already. | 22:54 |
| elnino | I haven't. | 22:54 |
| @preaction | go ahead, all yours | 22:55 |
| Trex___ | OK, I'll add the report. | 22:55 |
| Trex___ | Also, with regards to the latest WRE configuration, is WebGUI still using the following rewrite rules to ensure a check for permissions: | 22:56 |
| Trex___ | RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} ^(.*/) | 22:56 |
| Trex___ | RewriteCond ${DOCUMENT_ROOT}%1.wgaccess !-f | 22:56 |
| Trex___ | RewriteRule ^/uploads/ - [L] | 22:56 |
| @preaction | don't paste please | 22:56 |
| Trex___ | Sorry. | 22:56 |
| Trex___ | It's the method mentioned here: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/protecting-file-assets/14 | 22:57 |
| @preaction | and yes, that is the correct configuration, provided it's in all your .modproxy files, any file created before 0.9.3 may not have those lines | 22:57 |
| Trex___ | I'm reviewing a system on which our sysadmin has upgraded to the latest stable WG, but I can't be sure that he didn't do something unexpected like revert the modproxy files. | 22:58 |
| @preaction | webgui doesn't upgrade the modproxy files, wre doesn't automatically either | 22:58 |
| @preaction | webgui doesn't know about the WRE, essentially. | 22:58 |
| Trex___ | OK...there must be something odd going on, because this doesn't seem to be properly preventing access to files on our systems...but it does seem to be working on the latest WG demo site, so must be something in our system I'll need to track down. | 22:59 |
| Trex___ | Not much that you all can help with without access to our systems so I'll just leave it at that. :) | 23:00 |
| Trex___ | But thanks for confirming the prior issue about the trash. And with that, I have to duck out again. | 23:01 |
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| --- Day changed Tue Nov 16 2010 | ||
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| @preaction | planning APIs and such out in WebGUI 7 is painful compared to what we have in 8 :( | 00:53 |
| @preaction | can't have a "getSomethingForm" method, as I can't modify the form that comes out of it. it has to return a complete form, or some horribleness like a set of <tr> | 00:53 |
| @preaction | hmm... or... | 00:54 |
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| @preaction | or i can design something braindead enough that the future APIs can work with it while deprecating it... | 00:55 |
| @preaction | let's build APIs just to immediately deprecate them! yay! | 00:55 |
| +perlDreamer | or, let's tell people they have to do that project in 8 | 01:18 |
| @preaction | their drop-dead date is Dec 19. not plausible :( | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | oh! Go alpha, be brave! | 01:38 |
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| SDuensin | Howdy all. | 16:38 |
| +bartjol | no, not him again :P | 16:38 |
| SDuensin | !!! | 16:40 |
| SDuensin | A pain in your butt since WG 5.x! | 16:40 |
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| @preaction | i'm surprised you admit to using that... product... | 17:41 |
| SDuensin | It's why I'm here. There was absolutely nothing even remotely close to it back then. | 17:44 |
| SDuensin | And I wasn't even looking for a CMS when I found it. :-D | 17:44 |
| SDuensin | (Was trying to find a pre-made library for building web UIs for locally run software like the old SATAN security scanner used.) | 17:45 |
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| neil__ | I have WebGUI setup on a vps for 3 sites and would like to know which is better, Virtualmin or Webmim. | 17:57 |
| +perlDreamer | neil__: none of those will do anything for WebGUI itself | 17:58 |
| neil__ | I'm having a difficult time settting up messaging in WebGUI. | 17:59 |
| neil__ | WebGUI should work fine with Sendmail | 17:59 |
| @preaction | and it does, yes | 18:00 |
| neil__ | But I don't know how to set it up | 18:01 |
| @preaction | well, if you need to configure anything, i'd suggest not using sendmail | 18:01 |
| neil__ | What do you suggest I use for email/messaging | 18:03 |
| @preaction | well, for e-mail, i'd suggest postfix | 18:04 |
| SDuensin | neil__: I run this setup - http://flurdy.com/docs/postfix/ | 18:04 |
| neil__ | My vps is on CentOS while your suggestion is primarily for a Debian system .. | 18:12 |
| +perlDreamer | I didn't know that postfix worked differently based on the OS it sat on | 18:13 |
| SDuensin | Well, the install will be a bit different. Some confs may move around. | 18:13 |
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| @preaction | neil__: have you checked the maillog as to why it might be failing? does the server know who it is? is it trying to deliver mail locally? | 18:37 |
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| neil__ | I would like to see email/messaging setup where, webgui user when logged can check their inbox. And also via mozilla thunderbird or similar | 18:43 |
| neil__ | Only admin, content creator can log into webgui | 18:44 |
| @preaction | webgui's inbox has nothing to do with e-mail. users just get e-mailed when something gets added to their inbox | 18:46 |
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| neil__ | I lost connection | 18:53 |
| neil__ | I would like to see email/messaging setup where, webgui admin and content creator when logged can check their inbox. And also via mozilla thunderbird or similar | 18:54 |
| @preaction | webgui's inbox has nothing to do with e-mail. users just get e-mailed when something gets added to their inbox | 18:55 |
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| neil__ | I have edited the question - How can webgui users check their emails via mozilla thunderbird or similar? | 19:04 |
| @preaction | do you mean their Inbox or normal, regular e-mail? | 19:05 |
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| @frodwith | in webgui 8, should asset->newById throw an exception or return undef if there's no such asset? (docs say it should return undef, but in trunk it throws an exception) | 19:08 |
| neil__ | Both actually. I really would like to know. | 19:12 |
| @preaction | neil__: normal e-mail is normal e-mail. inbox cannot be read through an e-mail client | 19:13 |
| @preaction | frodwith: it should throw an exception | 19:13 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Paul Driver WebGUI8 * r8af425a / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : docpatch for outdated pod on Asset->newById - http://bit.ly/cpODPb | 19:17 |
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| neil__ | preaction: what is the simplest configuration so that emails can be checked via mozilla thunderbird or similar? | 19:28 |
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| neil___ | preaction: what is the simplest configuration so that emails can be checked via mozilla thunderbird or similar? | 19:31 |
| @preaction | neil___: this isn't a WebGUI thing, talk to your imap or pop3 daemon's help channel | 19:33 |
| plainhao | neil___, configure your webgui to forward inbox messages | 19:33 |
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| plainhao | d'oh | 19:33 |
| @preaction | oh fun. because Registered Users isn't a real group, WebGUI::Group->getUsersNotIn doesn't work with it | 19:52 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith: bad docs. It throws | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | doc patches welcome :) | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | fixes for bad code even more welcome | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I also accept donations of small, sweet baked goods | 20:33 |
| @frodwith | perlDreamer: docpatch committed roughly an hour ago | 20:34 |
| @frodwith | :) | 20:34 |
| +perlDreamer | awesome | 20:34 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r5f89a28 / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix #11965: FriendMgr pagination and getUsersNotIn - http://bit.ly/drhHAj | 21:28 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rca9b02e / (4 files in 4 dirs): fix #11965: FriendMgr pagination and getUsersNotIn - http://bit.ly/aXuP85 | 21:31 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r9ad8b0b / (2 files in 2 dirs): move package to correct place - http://bit.ly/9h3JUx | 21:31 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8c06c28 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bmJNLo | 21:31 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r3360757 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bBwHZ2 | 21:32 |
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| @preaction | http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/11964 <- i'm thinking of fixing this bug by overriding trash() and commit() to add a "state" : "trash" to the wgaccess file. commit() adds to any previous revisions, and trash() adds to the current revision | 22:14 |
| Haarg | you could also just write out a wgaccess file with no permissions granted | 22:18 |
| -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has quit [Quit: plainhao] | 22:29 | |
| @preaction | also true, but i'd want to know why | 22:38 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: I fixed the calendar extend recurrence bug already | 23:10 |
| +perlDreamer | but I didn't file a bug for it | 23:10 |
| @preaction | hm... seems you did. was it in 7.9.18 that they're running? | 23:11 |
| +perlDreamer | I lied, I did submit a bug, it's #11956 | 23:14 |
| +perlDreamer | and it's in last week's release, .19 | 23:14 |
| @preaction | humph | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry dude | 23:22 |
| @preaction | then i don't know what these peoples' problem is if it's not that | 23:22 |
| +perlDreamer | they're one version too old | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | .18 instead of .19 | 23:23 |
| @preaction | .17 was the last version they said | 23:24 |
| +perlDreamer | well, they're 2 versions old then | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | slackers! get with it! | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I slave over a hot release system every week | 23:27 |
| +perlDreamer | and they can't even upgrade! | 23:27 |
| * perlDreamer sniffs and runs into the kitchen | 23:27 | |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: just let me know when you're done whining and are ready to do the release. i'll keep bugsquashing until then | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | you do realize how incredibly tempting that is, right? | 23:42 |
| +perlDreamer | I can easily give you 12-14 more hours of bugfixing time, if you wish | 23:42 |
| @preaction | well, i have a madmongers meeting to go to, so i can't work that long | 23:46 |
| @preaction | and the failing addRevision tests are starting to mock me | 23:46 |
| @preaction | i can hear them... taunting me on another branch... teasing my inability to fix them | 23:46 |
| @preaction | oh crap. they heard me talking about them... | 23:46 |
| +perlDreamer | be strong! | 23:50 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not inability | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | it's being surrounded by those who require your help all the time | 23:54 |
| +perlDreamer | interrupting those valuable thought processes | 23:54 |
| --- Day changed Wed Nov 17 2010 | ||
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| @preaction | mmm love writing regression tests. i love the feeling of "I will never have to fix this bug ever again" | 00:44 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 01:33 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r386ce03 / (5 files in 5 dirs): fix #11964 files show in trash and old revisions - http://bit.ly/bEYdLq | 01:56 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * r8649ad8 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/diYDIo | 01:56 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: re: the iPad / TinyMCE problem. did we just add it to etc/WebGUI.conf.original or also in an upgrade? | 02:01 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a configuration option | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | if people want it, they should add it | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | there's no way I want 8e6 bug reports for "my personal mobile browser" is not supported | 02:26 |
| @preaction | ok | 02:32 |
| +perlDreamer | besides, in 8 this is fixed | 02:32 |
| +perlDreamer | by using the excellent HTTP::BrowserDetect module | 02:32 |
| +perlDreamer | Haarg++ | 02:32 |
| @preaction | true nuff | 02:35 |
| @preaction | but the problem is that iPad isn't really a mobile, it's big | 02:35 |
| @preaction | i think this'll be my last bug of the night | 02:36 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r55920f5 / (5 files in 5 dirs): fix #11964 files show in trash and old revisions - http://bit.ly/carDIQ | 02:49 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rc8aa4a5 / docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt : changelog - http://bit.ly/bQYTby | 02:49 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r270f52a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): fix 11954 Can't clear packed head tags - http://bit.ly/atD9rC | 02:49 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rd95aa4a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): fix 11954 Can't clear packed head tags - http://bit.ly/aeF7E2 | 02:49 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: for that packed head tags, do we need to have an upgrade sub which fixes assets with badly set packed head tags? | 02:51 |
| @preaction | i'd say no, they'll get cleared out by the next save of the asset | 02:53 |
| +perlDreamer | but in the meantime, they're still wrong | 02:53 |
| @preaction | but they're not being used, and if they are, someone will figure it out | 02:54 |
| +perlDreamer | they're not being used? | 02:56 |
| +perlDreamer | I thought the bug was that they were being used | 02:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and the user removed the head tags | 02:56 |
| +perlDreamer | and they kept showing up | 02:57 |
| @preaction | if you really want to add it, go ahead, i'm at madison.pm meeting | 02:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: test suite breakage | 03:20 |
| @preaction | hm | 03:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Asset/File.t | 03:20 |
| +perlDreamer | Image.t | 03:20 |
| +perlDreamer | VersionTag.t | 03:20 |
| +perlDreamer | FilePump/Bundle.t | 03:20 |
| @preaction | running a test | 03:20 |
| * perlDreamer goes back to making meatball sandwiches | 03:21 | |
| +perlDreamer | d'ya want us to make an extra one for you? | 03:21 |
| @preaction | thanks, no. just had Steak Mafia at Come Back In | 03:22 |
| @preaction | damnit it all passes in 7.10... | 03:26 |
| @preaction | wtf, now it doesn't... | 03:35 |
| @preaction | okay, so i didn't change anything with this code, but now it doesn't work. comments? | 03:58 |
| * perlDreamer would guess... | 03:59 | |
| +perlDreamer | You touched Storage, which affects Asset/File.t | 03:59 |
| +perlDreamer | and Image.t | 03:59 |
| Getty | heheheh | 03:59 |
| +perlDreamer | something leaked a test, which broke VersionTag.t | 03:59 |
| Getty | "I DIDNT TOUCHED ANYTHING!! ITS NOT MY FAULT!!!" ;) classic | 03:59 |
| +perlDreamer | and FilePump uses Storage, too | 03:59 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction has on his Han Solo blaster and vest tonight Getty | 03:59 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: but i put a bunch of damned warns and it works just fine, the rest of the tests would fail if these tests were really failing wrongly | 04:00 |
| +perlDreamer | you asked for comments, that's my best guess | 04:00 |
| @preaction | perhaps the problem is that setStoragelocation and getStorageLocation do wayyyyyy too much | 04:02 |
| +perlDreamer | they worked just fine 18 hours ago | 04:03 |
| @preaction | i know, and they worked fine 4 hours ago when i committed the storage changes i did | 04:03 |
| @preaction | and the warns show the correct data, but the tests fail | 04:04 |
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| +perlDreamer | I'll rerun the suite with DEBUG turned on, and see if it shows anything else | 04:06 |
| @preaction | i'm gonna revert commits until they pass | 04:08 |
| @preaction | it's the last commit, the can't clear packed head tags one... | 04:10 |
| +perlDreamer | that breaks File, Image, VersionTags and FilePump? | 04:11 |
| +perlDreamer | wow | 04:11 |
| +perlDreamer | talk about collateral damage | 04:11 |
| @preaction | yeah... i got no clue either... | 04:11 |
| @preaction | but at least we know where to look | 04:11 |
| @preaction | i mean it's only 3 damned lines | 04:11 |
| @preaction | well, i missed an addToCleanup. that might fix the VersionTag test | 04:13 |
| @preaction | and it's not the test, it's those exact lines | 04:15 |
| @preaction | it's the actual update i added. wtf... | 04:17 |
| @preaction | how much of the existing update() exists in 8? zero? can it please be zero? | 04:19 |
| +perlDreamer | well, update is inherited all throughout Asset-ville | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | iirc, none of it exists per se | 04:20 |
| @preaction | yay! | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | it's moved into write, and various per-attribute wrappers | 04:20 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, and a Role or 2 | 04:21 |
| @preaction | well, i guess i'll go debug-diving... | 04:21 |
| * preaction dons environment suit | 04:21 | |
| @preaction | I JUST NEED FOUR STOUT MEN TO WORK THE BELLOWS! | 04:21 |
| * perlDreamer can be two of them, I'm quite stout | 04:21 | |
| @preaction | hmm... overriding update might be the problem | 04:23 |
| +perlDreamer | but why does calling update inside packedHeadTags cause this problem? | 04:25 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 04:26 |
| +perlDreamer | update calls getStorageLocation | 04:26 |
| +perlDreamer | which calls setStorageLocation | 04:26 |
| +perlDreamer | which calls update | 04:26 |
| +perlDreamer | ... | 04:26 |
| @preaction | and if storageId hasn't been hit in the first update() yet, you create two storage locations | 04:27 |
| @preaction | but a better question is why is packExtraHeadTags getting called at all, as i'm not passing extraHeadTags to update() | 04:27 |
| +perlDreamer | we don't know where it's being called | 04:31 |
| +perlDreamer | could be on addChild | 04:31 |
| +perlDreamer | FilePump/Bundle fails because it uses a File Asset, which no longer has a storage location | 04:32 |
| +perlDreamer | and Image.t fails because it copied the File.t tests which are failing | 04:33 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r8c4785b / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Don't call setParent if the asset is still broken. Alert user if the asset is still broken. Fixes bug #11957. - http://bit.ly/czqOY6 | 04:40 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.9 * r28606bd / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt sbin/findBrokenAssets.pl): Don't call setParent if the asset is still broken. Alert user if the asset is still broken. Fixes bug #11957. - http://bit.ly/apSCY5 | 04:42 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: can you think of a reason why we need to do $self->get('storageId') ne $before{'storageId'} without having storageId in the update props? | 04:45 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 04:46 |
| @preaction | oooh i got a fix i thinks! | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I cannot think of a reason that it should happen without storageId being passed | 04:48 |
| +perlDreamer | that being said, let's believe the tests | 04:48 |
| @preaction | indeed | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, hang on | 04:49 |
| @preaction | and instead of setStorageLocation in update(), i just delete $self->{_storageLocation}. then getStorageLocation will update that when we need it to | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | the permissions can change | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | but that should be handled by addRev making a new location | 04:49 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, I think you're good | 04:49 |
| @preaction | that's handled right below, the setPermissions is called | 04:49 |
| @preaction | tests passing so fars! yay! | 04:50 |
| @preaction | <3 test suites | 04:50 |
| +perlDreamer | push it up, and I'll test too | 04:52 |
| @preaction | k, one sec | 04:52 |
| +perlDreamer | tomorrow, we talk about some of the remaining bugs, and more 8acking | 04:52 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * r19dedc0 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): | 04:55 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: fix problem revealed by tests | 04:55 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: update() in a File asset would always create a storage location if one | 04:55 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: was not yet saved. calling update() in a filter method would cause | 04:55 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: another one to be created too, messing up the tests. - http://bit.ly/amh6Ut | 04:55 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: nope. Scrumm says we don't look back. we 8! | 04:57 |
| +perlDreamer | huh? | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | need to make decisions about new TinyMCE | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | and indexing userProfile | 05:05 |
| +perlDreamer | or changing the lookup for unique email addresses | 05:05 |
| @preaction | yes, but we can do that next tuesday, when it's 7.x day again | 05:06 |
| +perlDreamer | very guud (ala Dexter) | 05:06 |
| @preaction | g?d? | 05:06 |
| @preaction | filepump macro still fails | 05:07 |
| +perlDreamer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSnij6sRbHA | 05:07 |
| @preaction | and versiontag still fails | 05:10 |
| +perlDreamer | I cleaned up the latest forum span | 05:11 |
| +perlDreamer | and deleted the account | 05:13 |
| +perlDreamer | runs clean for me, preaction | 05:19 |
| @preaction | i didn't reset before my last run, so i'm running again | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I think you're good | 05:20 |
| @preaction | i mean, the TaxDriver/EU.t failed, so something wonky was up | 05:20 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, that's really weird | 05:26 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r19b901f / (26 files in 11 dirs): Preparing for 7.10.5 release - http://bit.ly/bfXNSe | 06:28 |
| * perlDreamer loves easy upgrades | 06:50 | |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * r63217ab / (4 files in 4 dirs): Ready for 7.10.6 development. - http://bit.ly/bWUARl | 07:03 |
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| +bartjol | btw, wouldn't it be convenient to use the versionsort option of indexoptions for upgrade.webgui.org? | 16:00 |
| +bartjol | see http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_autoindex.html | 16:01 |
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| +bartjol | khenn who controls the update.webgui.org webserver? | 16:07 |
| +bartjol | goodmorning btw | 16:07 |
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| @khenn | update.webgui.org is one of our servers I believe | 16:09 |
| @khenn | preaction could confirm | 16:09 |
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| +bartjol | preaction: are you willing to make an improvement in the apache setup on the update.webgui.org site? | 16:17 |
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| SDuensin | Greetings. | 16:24 |
| xdanger | hola | 16:27 |
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| @frodwith | does anyone else find typed exception handling annoyingly verbose? like you have to be all.. if (blessed($ex) && $ex->isa('whatever i care about')) { do something } else { if (blessed($ex) && $ex->can('rethrow')) { $ex->rethrow() } else { die $ex } } | 18:03 |
| @frodwith | thinking of releasing a tiny cpan module that does ... if (caught('my class') { do_something } else { rethrow() } inside of a Try::Tiny catch block. | 18:07 |
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| @preaction | good morning WebGUI! | 19:33 |
| xdanger | so if site uses emails as accountnames, shouldn't it sync the change of email / accountname to each other? | 19:43 |
| @preaction | no, you could, but it doesn't happen automatically | 19:43 |
| @preaction | and this kind of papercut thing is something i want to address in 8.2 "Users and Groups" | 19:44 |
| xdanger | I meant it doesn't but I think it should =) | 19:44 |
| @preaction | 8.1 is "Back to Basics", 8.2 will be 'Users and Groups', 8.3 will be "Recollaboration", and haven't got any further in my planning yet | 19:44 |
| @preaction | but yes, if e-mail is being used as username, the email field probably should be synced with it | 19:45 |
| @preaction | just as if e-mail is being validated, it should always be validated | 19:45 |
| @preaction | and other weirdnesses of the current system | 19:45 |
| xdanger | you could override the email change and have it send an email to the new one with a url to a function that changes it (with a security has, or require the user to be logged in) | 19:46 |
| xdanger | should it send an email to the old one also? :) | 19:47 |
| @preaction | right, it's not a technical problem, it's a logistics problem: we're trying to push out 8 before it's stillborn | 19:47 |
| xdanger | yep | 19:47 |
| xdanger | if I write that, I mean the sync with email & account, will you put it in 7.10? | 19:48 |
| @preaction | if you get it before the 7.10 freeze, of course | 19:48 |
| xdanger | when is the freeze? | 19:48 |
| xdanger | and will there be 7.11 ? | 19:48 |
| @preaction | December, probably first week of it | 19:48 |
| @preaction | no. 8.0 is the next beta cycle | 19:49 |
| xdanger | is the 8.x cycle going to be like 6.x? | 19:49 |
| xdanger | in that you refine the api | 19:49 |
| @preaction | i wasn't around during 6.x, but 8.0.0 will begin the API freeze for 8.x | 19:49 |
| @preaction | i will be adding new APIs and deprecating old APIs, but they will continue to work all through 8.x | 19:50 |
| xdanger | ok, great | 19:50 |
| xdanger | can't wait for 8.0 | 19:50 |
| @preaction | in fact, many of the APIs i could've removed from 8.0.0 i left just because we hadn't warned anyone about deprecation | 19:50 |
| @preaction | unfortunately, i had to mess with WebGUI::Auth->new, as it was completely broken, but the rest of the Auth API should work just fine | 19:51 |
| xdanger | I've read your debrication conversations a little =) | 19:51 |
| @preaction | Assets will need rewriting, but that's the only bit | 19:51 |
| @preaction | otherwise look in the WebGUI8 branch at docs/migration.txt | 19:51 |
| xdanger | I'm turning an old (since webgui 6.x) site to allow user registrations, and I want to have them work properly | 19:52 |
| @preaction | but the main point of 8.x will be to add the 9.x APIs so we can remove the old ones in 9.0.0 | 19:53 |
| xdanger | I've been trying the languageOverride today and I'm now of to the user registration | 19:53 |
| @preaction | xdanger: if you add some tests for your code to t/Auth.t you can merge the language stuff right away | 19:54 |
| xdanger | I decided to hack in a workflow to the DataForm to create the new users so I don't have to change their "workflow" too much | 19:55 |
| xdanger | how about the ProfileField, does it have a test? | 19:56 |
| @preaction | you'll need to, but you don't have to test anything but what you added (so instance the "language" profile field and make sure its default value is set to the scratch value) | 19:56 |
| @preaction | i mean, if you want to test more than that, feel free, it's better for everybody, but we mainly don't want coverage to go down | 19:57 |
| xdanger | the ProfileFiled change only changes the default in the selection box to the ovveride value | 19:58 |
| xdanger | preaction: should I create a new user in the test, or add it to the creation that is already there? | 20:01 |
| @preaction | whichever should work, as long as the test fails without your patch, and passes with your patch | 20:02 |
| @preaction | not looking for perfection, just more of a "sunny day" "this is how it should work, but there may be edge cases" sort of thing | 20:02 |
| @preaction | a starting point for the feature, so i know what the feature is supposed to do and if an edge case crops up i can just add another test | 20:02 |
| xdanger | So German is in the core and I can use that, and it won't be removed? | 20:04 |
| @preaction | hm... probably fine for now | 20:05 |
| @preaction | we haven't set guidelines on whether or not languages can be removed if they fall behind on their translation | 20:05 |
| @frodwith | https://gist.github.com/703750 ... gaaaaaaawd that's cute | 20:13 |
| @preaction | nice indeed. i'd almost say it belongs in Try::Tiny period | 20:14 |
| @frodwith | oh, I dunno. Not everyone using Try::Tiny does class based exception dispatch | 20:15 |
| @frodwith | like the use cases in the Try::Tiny docs are all check-this-string-with-a-regex | 20:15 |
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| xdanger | ok, then to forking webgui so I can create my first pull request =D | 20:46 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rfe62171 / (lib/WebGUI/Asset/File.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): | 20:49 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: fix problem revealed by tests | 20:49 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: update() in a File asset would always create a storage location if one | 20:49 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: was not yet saved. calling update() in a filter method would cause | 20:49 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: another one to be created too, messing up the tests. - http://bit.ly/cYaLMx | 20:49 |
| @preaction | good job CIA, just spam the entire commit message instead of just the minimal tag | 20:51 |
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| xdanger | uuu, git & github are awesome =) | 21:03 |
| xdanger | preaction: did I do that request correctly? | 21:09 |
| @preaction | xdanger: yep, i gots it | 21:12 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Paul Driver master * ra3acacd / lib/WebGUI/Fork.pm : make modperl shut up about exit - http://bit.ly/aaSOeP | 22:09 |
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| +perlDreamer | my hands will be so happy when we can . instead of -> | 23:19 |
| @scrottie | there was a discussion probably a year or two back now on p5p about making $foo`bar do the same thing as $foo->{bar}. I'd really like to have seen that. ultimately, Larry shot it down. | 23:23 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, wasn't ` the old Perl 4 syntax for namespacing? | 23:31 |
| * perlDreamer goes off to pickup kids | 23:32 | |
| Haarg | ' not ` | 23:37 |
| @khenn | are you guys really talking about converting WebGUI to Perl 6? | 23:41 |
| @preaction | no | 23:41 |
| @preaction | perl 6 does not yet exist | 23:41 |
| @khenn | or is perlDreamer dreaming | 23:41 |
| @khenn | perlDreamer: my hands will be so happy when we can . instead of -> | 23:42 |
| @scrottie | Parrot is great. it combines the speed of the Transmeta CPU with the architectural elegance of the VAX CPU. | 23:45 |
| @scrottie | people were migrating from the JVM in droves even before Oracle sued Google and locked the Apache Software Foundation out the validation process. | 23:46 |
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| Trex___ | Hello again! Many thanks to those who got the files-in-trash bug fixed so quickly and in the next release. :) | 23:52 |
| Trex___ | I wanted to ask about the .wgaccess files. I noticed that there are two formats -- a simple one-user/group-per-line and one that uses JSON... | 23:53 |
| @preaction | yes | 23:53 |
| Trex___ | Does anyone recall when the change took place? | 23:53 |
| @preaction | 7.8 or 7.9 most likely | 23:53 |
| @preaction | the change was mainly for the Gallery, as there were some permissions problems in there | 23:54 |
| Trex___ | Should all the existing wgaccess files be changed during upgrades past this point? | 23:54 |
| @preaction | either way, both are valid for now, and will be valid to at least 9.x | 23:54 |
| @preaction | not that i'm aware of | 23:54 |
| @preaction | backwards compatibility is a bit of a tricky artform | 23:54 |
| Trex___ | I did see that WebGUI::URL::Uploads has routines to handle either type. | 23:55 |
| @preaction | moving an old /uploads folder into a new site, for example, after modifying the database by hand | 23:55 |
| Trex___ | But I was curious because our test site that has been upgraded to 7.9.16 retains the older format, but the newer sites seem to have the JSON format by default. | 23:55 |
| Trex___ | On our upgraded sites, if you upload a new file, the wgaccess file created is still in the older format. Is that the proper behavior? | 23:56 |
| @preaction | any new wgaccess created should be in the new format | 23:56 |
| Trex___ | Huh. That's not what I'm seeing... | 23:57 |
| @preaction | eh, either way it's working fine | 23:57 |
| Trex___ | I wonder though...the problem I was looking into that caused me to notice this is that we found file URLs (/uploads/...) all are being served out without proper permission controls. | 23:58 |
| Trex___ | I've tracked it down to that bit of the mod_proxy file that allows uploads without .wgaccess files to be served directly, without WebGUI's involvement. That bit seems to not be "seeing" wgaccess files that truly exist on our systems. | 23:59 |
| --- Day changed Thu Nov 18 2010 | ||
| Trex___ | My guess is ownership/permissions somewhere, and I'm helping our sysadmin track down the issue. | 00:00 |
| Trex___ | There wouldn't be any strange mechanism by which this would affect how wgaccess files are written? | 00:01 |
| @preaction | no, the wgaccess file is written and read by modperl. modproxy only checks if it exists | 00:02 |
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| Trex___ | OK, thanks. Can you tell me what ownership and permissions there ought to be under each domain's uploads directory? | 00:08 |
| @preaction | the apache user has to be able to read and write, and for directories, also execute. it should also probably own them, so that it can chmod | 00:09 |
| Trex___ | Under the wre "webgui" is the apache user? | 00:10 |
| @preaction | it is whatever you configured it to be. check wre/etc/wre.conf | 00:10 |
| Trex___ | Gotcha. Thanks. | 00:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | khenn, I figure at some point, perl5 will start using . instead of -> for dereference | 00:38 |
| @preaction | no strict; my $obj = Asset->new; print $obj.getTitle <- what now sucka? | 00:39 |
| +perlDreamer | my $obj = Asset.new; print $obj.getTitle | 00:39 |
| @preaction | i'm saying do that in current Perl and see what happens | 00:39 |
| Haarg | Acme::Dot | 00:40 |
| Trex___ | Aha! Interesting... | 00:43 |
| Trex___ | Our sites use the mod_proxy rewrite rules as listed in JT's post to this thread: http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss/protecting-file-assets/14 | 00:43 |
| Trex___ | ...but if I change ${DOCUMENT_ROOT} to %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} this seems to resolve our file access problem. | 00:44 |
| Trex___ | Was there a change in Apache rewrite rule syntax, perhaps? | 00:44 |
| @preaction | no | 00:45 |
| @preaction | %{} is a server var, ${} is something else | 00:45 |
| +perlDreamer | string interpolation ? | 00:46 |
| Trex___ | Is JT's use of ${} in this instance correct, then? | 00:46 |
| @preaction | well, $1, $2, etc... work | 00:46 |
| @preaction | Trex___: does it work? | 00:46 |
| Trex___ | Changing to %{DOCUMENT_ROOT} does appear to solve the problem. I'm checking some variations to confirm... | 00:47 |
| Haarg | ${DOCUMENT_ROOT} was incorrect | 00:47 |
| Trex___ | Yes, after changing to a %, I'm getting the proper behavior for files with permissions set vs. those without. | 00:51 |
| Trex___ | Is this how the RewriteRule appears in the default WRE configuration? | 00:52 |
| Haarg | yes. it was incorrect at one point in the past. | 00:53 |
| Trex___ | Sorry...I guess I should have specified whether by "this" I meant %{} vs. ${}. :) | 00:53 |
| Haarg | it uses % now | 00:54 |
| Trex___ | OK, thanks. I guess that resolves another mystery of ours. | 00:55 |
| Trex___ | Our systems were migrated to the wre sometime about 7.3/4 and are getting ready to be upgraded from 7.5.38, so we have a lot of little things whose origin are mysteries lost to the past. | 00:56 |
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| Trex___ | Thanks again for your help, folks. Time for me to head out and pack for a little road trip. | 01:12 |
| Trex___ | I'm driving to Chicago tomorrow. I'll give a wave to PlainBlack HQ on my way. :) | 01:12 |
| Trex___ | ...on my way by, rather. | 01:13 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: new Var-less Session tests passing, time to go through the core and do cleanup | 02:19 |
| @preaction | yay! | 02:19 |
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| @preaction | perlDreamer: how do i get the leak detection to work in the test suite? | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | env WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=1 | 02:24 |
| +perlDreamer | then you write a fancy ack to give you test names and leaks | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | the detection of scratch variables is buggy | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | but everything else is very trustworthy | 02:25 |
| @preaction | there's just a template being left around, but don't know where/why | 02:25 |
| @preaction | because it's bugging up a bunch of tests | 02:25 |
| +perlDreamer | it'll catch it | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it's before the first failing test | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | but that won't help much | 02:26 |
| +perlDreamer | did Session->var->end ever take an argument on which session to close? | 02:28 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't think it did | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | but it's all over the code | 02:28 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I'm almost done | 02:34 |
| +perlDreamer | if I am | 02:34 |
| +perlDreamer | then tomorrow, I'll merge in 7.10.5 | 02:34 |
| +perlDreamer | and then the Varless branch | 02:35 |
| @preaction | is there supposed to be this much leaking? or is this me? | 02:35 |
| +perlDreamer | paste? | 02:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | there will be lots of +1 and -1 in the session and scratch | 02:36 |
| @preaction | it's already scrolled too high | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | let's see | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | ack '^.+$\.t|^# \w+: \s*\d+' | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | should do it | 02:36 |
| +perlDreamer | do that on the log | 02:37 |
| @preaction | is there a log automatically kept? | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | you don't tee your runs by default? | 02:37 |
| @preaction | then i have to run the whole shebang again | 02:37 |
| +perlDreamer | use tee, it'll help | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | next time :/ | 02:38 |
| +perlDreamer | ohhh | 03:13 |
| +perlDreamer | bad test breakage in Varless | 03:13 |
| +perlDreamer | maybe not | 03:14 |
| +perlDreamer | I forgot to update them, too! | 03:14 |
| +perlDreamer | rerunning | 03:16 |
| @preaction | perlDreamer: perhaps a goal should be that the tests run as-is? that way we know it's backward compatible? | 03:30 |
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| @preaction | so every test runs clean after a reset and running individually, but a messload fail after something leaks... | 03:56 |
| @preaction | i won't subject you to this, i'll fix it tomorrow | 03:56 |
| +perlDreamer | you are a kind and gracious code dictator | 04:19 |
| +perlDreamer | I may be back on later tonight, we shall see... | 04:19 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:30 |
| +bartjol | morning | 16:30 |
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| mducharme-laptop | hey perldreamer | 19:00 |
| @scrottie | yarr. | 19:02 |
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| +perlDreamer | mducharme-laptop: howdy | 20:03 |
| * perlDreamer was at the gym | 20:03 | |
| mducharme-laptop | perldreamer would you be interested in doing some perl development work for us? | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | Oh yeah! | 20:04 |
| mducharme-laptop | I'm looking at a few different options but I thought I would ask you as well | 20:04 |
| +perlDreamer | do you have a spec for what you want? | 20:04 |
| mducharme-laptop | I'll message you | 20:05 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: ready to merge in Varless into WebGUI8! | 21:04 |
| @preaction | sounds good | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | we need to encourage frodwith to fix the Fork issues that we're having | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | whoa | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | seamless merge | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | never happened before | 21:04 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdcff137 / (62 files in 22 dirs): Merge branch 'Varless' into WebGUI8 (+5 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/ctUwvd | 21:05 |
| Haarg | i kind of hate that Monkey::Patch is being used in core, but if it is, progressbar should probably be adapted to use it instead of doing the symbol table stuff itself | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | ProgressBar should be moved over to using Fork, no? | 21:13 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * rb6abeb0 / lib/WebGUI/Deprecate.pm : use Package::Stash for deprecation - http://bit.ly/dC36hx | 21:13 |
| Haarg | also, should get frodwith to have Monkey::Patch use Package::Stash for symbol table stuff instead of doing it itself and using Sub::Delete | 21:13 |
| Haarg | maybe | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: do you want to talk through making Session::Id not dependent on Session? | 21:29 |
| @preaction | what needs talking through? | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | well, the config filename is part of the data that's encrypted | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | should we use a config object instead? | 21:30 |
| +perlDreamer | or something else altogether? | 21:30 |
| @preaction | perhaps you could pass in that value to generate if you wanted, but it would be optional? | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | the shorter the message gets, the less randomness you have | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | and the higher chance of a collision | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | it's already compromised as it is | 21:31 |
| +perlDreamer | since the last digit is guaranteed to be one of 4 characters | 21:31 |
| @preaction | yes, from 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% to 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% | 21:31 |
| Haarg | it's 128 bits of 'randomness' | 21:33 |
| +perlDreamer | I know that it's not really random, maybe uniqueness would be a better word | 21:33 |
| Haarg | the config file makes sense as something to use, but it could maybe use the hostname if that isn't available | 21:34 |
| @preaction | a uuid4 would be fine. if anyone gets a collision, i'll buy you a new house | 21:34 |
| +perlDreamer | is that a promise? | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I know where the paper is on how to bust MD5 | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I figure it's only a couple of weeks worth of work | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | and SHA1 isn't too far behind | 21:37 |
| @preaction | nothing can protect against malice | 21:37 |
| Haarg | uuid 4 is just random numbers right? | 21:37 |
| @preaction | yes | 21:37 |
| Haarg | and we don't have a good random seed really | 21:37 |
| Haarg | and i don't remember if perl/mod_perl re-seeds on fork | 21:38 |
| +perlDreamer | or plack? | 21:38 |
| @preaction | we're spending an awful lot of time discussing something that has a snowball's chance in hell of actually being a problem | 21:39 |
| Haarg | well, anything plack would just do whatever perl fork does | 21:39 |
| Haarg | if the seed isn't reset it would be pretty easy for it to happen | 21:39 |
| Haarg | in fact it would be very likely to happen | 21:39 |
| +perlDreamer | the number sequence is repeatable | 21:40 |
| @scrottie | I've got a good random number generator ya'll can use =) | 21:40 |
| Haarg | sha1/md5 doesn't really factor into the guids because all they are really being used for is to turn the input into something that is always 128bits | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | always 128bits, and try to make it unique globally, across sites, servers and so on | 21:43 |
| Haarg | but the uniqueness doesn't come from the hash | 21:44 |
| Haarg | it comes from the input | 21:44 |
| Haarg | all it's doing in our case is making the output the right length | 21:44 |
| +perlDreamer | so what if we just switched to using Data::UUID? | 21:45 |
| Haarg | which uuid version? | 21:45 |
| +perlDreamer | according to the docs for that module, it makes v3 UUIDs | 21:47 |
| +perlDreamer | it just comes to mind because the author is RJBS | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm just saying that maybe we should use a standard module to do it | 21:48 |
| Haarg | uuid3 needs input | 21:48 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not sure where the input comes from | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | it's in the XS source | 21:49 |
| +perlDreamer | Stevan Little gives it 5 starts | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | it has 3 open bugs, most dealing with either windows, or the docs | 21:50 |
| +perlDreamer | seems to take at least processID, and system time | 21:51 |
| +perlDreamer | uses MD5 | 21:51 |
| @scrottie | seriously, I've got some fun sh%t. | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/RJBS/Data-UUID-1.217/UUID.xs | 21:52 |
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| Haarg | that's probably the best way to go. i was just wary of things just using a random source that was unknown. | 21:58 |
| Haarg | substr(Data::UUID->new->create_b64, 0, -2) | 21:58 |
| * perlDreamer will go to lunch and wait for preaction's feedback | 22:00 | |
| +perlDreamer | sounds good to me though | 22:01 |
| +perlDreamer | and do we want to wrap it/extend it, or just make everyone use it when you want an id? | 22:02 |
| +perlDreamer | I think I favor extending it, for backwards compatibility | 22:02 |
| Haarg | you mean provide $session->id->whatever? | 22:02 |
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| Haarg | http://gist.github.com/705544 | 22:20 |
| Haarg | seems to work | 22:20 |
| Haarg | if fork should be used instead someone else can work on that | 22:20 |
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| @preaction | i would say for now provide session->id->* and deprecate them all. we can use UUID when appropriate and most people should be using our APIs for everything important anyway (and when we move to an ORM, everything ever) | 22:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, preaction: could y'all try running this and pasting the output back? http://gist.github.com/705825 | 00:47 |
| Haarg | http://gist.github.com/705829 | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | it looks like it's counting | 00:48 |
| +perlDreamer | really weird that only the top 3 characters are changing | 00:49 |
| Haarg | it is | 00:49 |
| Haarg | it's a v1 uuid | 00:49 |
| Haarg | they are based on the mac address and the time | 00:50 |
| +perlDreamer | it's odd, the docs for 1.217 says they're v3 UUIDs | 00:51 |
| +perlDreamer | but I only have 1.215 installed | 00:52 |
| Haarg | v3 uuids need input | 00:52 |
| Haarg | it makes v1 uuids if you don't give it anything | 00:52 |
| Haarg | we could probably go with v4 uuids and have it work | 00:52 |
| Haarg | if we wanted random | 00:52 |
| +perlDreamer | unique should be good enough? | 00:53 |
| Haarg | doesn't really matter to me much. UUID::Tiny is probably the simplest bet for v4 uuids | 00:54 |
| Haarg | although you'd have to handle the base64 encoding | 00:54 |
| +perlDreamer | we do that now | 00:56 |
| +perlDreamer | we'd just be replacing 1 line of perl | 00:56 |
| @preaction | so i don't want to try to fix these tests, as they all succeed individually, but i don't want to saddle anyone else. i need to move on. should i just branch off, reset to remote/upstream and do something else? | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | in 8 branch, there are only 3 failing tests | 01:05 |
| +perlDreamer | both of which fail due to WebGUI::Fork | 01:05 |
| @preaction | and the last is EMSSubmission.t | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | CopyBranch, AssetExportHtml and VersionTag.t | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | EMSSubmission.t has failed (and will fail) for months | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | as with POD.t | 01:06 |
| +perlDreamer | If you have tests other than those that are failing, they need to be fixed | 01:06 |
| @preaction | all the other ones i have failing are due to bad cleanup in previous scripts | 01:06 |
| @preaction | they run clean when run immediately after a reset | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | so why did they stop cleaning up? | 01:07 |
| @preaction | i can't tell with the Admin.t one, i'm thinking of making the session table update not happen if request doesn't exist, but that sounds evil | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | very evil | 01:07 |
| +perlDreamer | how 'bout this | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | I need to take a break | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | between the two of us, we should be able to figure out why Admin.t isn't cleaning up | 01:08 |
| @preaction | i just merged your varless, i'll re-run the whole suite again with -rv and DEBUG | 01:08 |
| +perlDreamer | sounds good | 01:09 |
| +perlDreamer | Admin.t doesn't leak for me in WebGUI 8 | 01:30 |
| +perlDreamer | what's it leaking in your branch? | 01:30 |
| @preaction | wtf it stopped leaking | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | the leak must have gotten plugged up | 01:31 |
| +perlDreamer | does that fix all the problems? | 01:32 |
| @preaction | Asset/Asset.t leaks 6 assets, but that's obviously from the addRevision changes. i'm going in to remove all the tag stuff from tests | 01:32 |
| @preaction | if i were to add an API to get a test asset to add stuff to and will automatically purge itself, should i call it WebGUI::Test->asset(props)? | 01:33 |
| +perlDreamer | eh, I thought about that | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | like for users, groups, etc | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | but you'd have to wrap so much | 01:34 |
| +perlDreamer | and, does it need a parent? | 01:35 |
| @preaction | you'd use asset to get an asset to add things to | 01:35 |
| +perlDreamer | is the asset automatically committed? | 01:35 |
| @preaction | it's just a safe location to add stuff to test, and if that asset gets purged, the entire branch under it gets purged | 01:35 |
| @preaction | it isn't part of a tag | 01:35 |
| @preaction | by default it would just make a layout in the import node. but you could pass any properties to make any kind of asset you want | 01:36 |
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| +perlDreamer | if I did that, I would call it get_asset | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | but plain asset is good, too | 01:38 |
| +perlDreamer | I like get_asset better because it makes it clear that you can't assign to it | 01:39 |
| @preaction | but you could assign to it. why make a layout when you know you need a collab? | 01:39 |
| +perlDreamer | I assign to it, like WebGUI::Test->asset($asset) | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | instead of $props | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | now you have to care whether it's an object, or a hashref | 01:40 |
| @preaction | eh, addChild would sort that out right quick | 01:40 |
| +perlDreamer | yes, by dying :) | 01:40 |
| @preaction | i found my problem: the leak is printed in the log before the output of the test, not after | 01:48 |
| @preaction | so it's assetClipboard leaking for me, not Admin | 01:49 |
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| +perlDreamer | it's not leaking for me in 8 | 01:49 |
| @preaction | it was because of my changes | 01:50 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rdb1ee99 / lib/WebGUI/VersionTag.pm : Don't use the deprecated methods in the core. - http://bit.ly/aBxpwb | 01:52 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r9a1c82f / lib/WebGUI/International.pm : Remove deprecated user methods from International - http://bit.ly/c2ryvi | 01:52 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rae48e75 / lib/WebGUI/DateTime.pm : Remove profileField method from DateTime. - http://bit.ly/coLkvP | 01:52 |
| @preaction | <3 testing full suite problems not apparent in single-test problems. run the entire suite again and again and again and again! | 01:55 |
| +perlDreamer | yeah, but so slow... | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | actually | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | why do you have to do that? | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | if you know the leaky test | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | then you just run it with DEBUG=1 | 02:02 |
| +perlDreamer | map ,t :!env WEBGUI_LIVE=1 WEBGUI_TEST_DEBUG=1 CODE_COP=1 perl % > foo 2>&1^M | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | put that into your .vimrc, preaction | 02:03 |
| +perlDreamer | and you'll always DEBUG for a single test | 02:03 |
| @preaction | it's leaky tests causing failures in other tests, so i don't know which leaky test is causing which problem, so i have to investigate problems | 02:04 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, but the last full run that you did has every leaky test in it | 02:05 |
| +perlDreamer | and this will help you find them all | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | ack '(?:^# \w+\s*:\s*\d+\s*.delta)|(?:^\S+?\.t)' proven | less | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | it will print out test names | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and leak output | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | we should really identify it more clearly | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | to simplify that regexp | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | but, oh well | 02:08 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, WikiMaster is leaking 2 groups... | 02:09 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r59c03b5 / (41 files in 16 dirs): Change occurances of user->profileField to user->get - http://bit.ly/96spHe | 02:12 |
| +perlDreamer | that will silence a bunch of deprecation warnings | 02:15 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8255b69 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Remove more deprecated uses of profileField. - http://bit.ly/clRkZg | 02:17 |
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| @preaction | why do we have the additional arguments in addChild/addRevision for the ID? why can't the ID be specified in the properties, or one generated? | 02:44 |
| @preaction | and skipNotification is a property of assets with notification, why the extra thing way at the end? | 02:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: You'd have to ask The Designer | 03:16 |
| +perlDreamer | remember, that option arguments to subs were a recent invention | 03:16 |
| @preaction | i know, just wondering if anyone remembered why we did it that way instead of another | 03:17 |
| +perlDreamer | IMO: assetId should be in the properties | 03:17 |
| +perlDreamer | and, re skipNotification, I think that it may have dual use | 03:18 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, it would appear that subsciption groups are not being cleaned up on purge... | 03:22 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re03bb22 / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : More deprecation fixes. - http://bit.ly/9cEPEQ | 05:41 |
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| carogray | hey bartjol: you there? | 13:01 |
| +bartjol | carogray: yeah | 13:01 |
| carogray | quick ? | 13:02 |
| +bartjol | well, I'm forced to go to lunch now | 13:02 |
| carogray | can you refer or call one snippet from another? | 13:02 |
| carogray | stomach forcing you | 13:02 |
| +bartjol | sure | 13:02 |
| +bartjol | no, martin | 13:02 |
| +bartjol | and joeri | 13:02 |
| carogray | aaa | 13:02 |
| +bartjol | but you should be able | 13:02 |
| +bartjol | to do that | 13:02 |
| carogray | oh yes.. | 13:03 |
| carogray | just wasn't sure if it would work, kind of like difficult to make a shortcut to a shortcut | 13:03 |
| carogray | go enjoy lunch | 13:03 |
| carogray | let me know what you had when you get back:) | 13:03 |
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| +bartjol | oh, just bread and milk | 13:39 |
| carogray | is this a typical lunch for you? | 13:40 |
| +bartjol | but snippets are just code | 13:40 |
| +bartjol | yes | 13:40 |
| +bartjol | mainly dutch habit I suppose | 13:40 |
| carogray | yes, I know snippets are just code. I realized after I did it, that really it wouldn't work. | 13:40 |
| +bartjol | well, depends on what you are trying to do | 13:41 |
| carogray | I forgot our header which is a snippet we call from all of our English page style layouts is actually in the body of the page itself | 13:41 |
| carogray | it's a javascript for google analytics I wanted to put one place and then have all the page style layouts which already call the header snippet, or footer snippet to be able to get it without having to paste it into each one | 13:42 |
| carogray | in the end I just stuck it into all of the page style layouts anyway. | 13:42 |
| +bartjol | well | 13:42 |
| +bartjol | you can still do it with a snippet | 13:43 |
| carogray | but after the </body> before the </html> like whoever at the WUC 2009 suggested | 13:43 |
| +bartjol | but you have to call it somehwere | 13:43 |
| +bartjol | oh, I don't recall that | 13:43 |
| carogray | yes I did do it with a snippet, just had to put the call to the snippet into each page style layout | 13:43 |
| +bartjol | well, still not to bad | 13:44 |
| +bartjol | too | 13:44 |
| carogray | yes I cannot remember his name, I think it was at the WUC it was all about helping pages load as quickly as possible | 13:44 |
| carogray | a session on it, you may not have attended that session. | 13:44 |
| +bartjol | oh, wasn't that patrick? | 13:44 |
| carogray | So now I put all of my .js at the very end of the page.... .. | 13:44 |
| +bartjol | for some js that doesn't work unfortunately I believe | 13:45 |
| carogray | you know I really cannot remember who did it it may well have been Patrick - most of what he talked about Patrick that is went way over my head | 13:45 |
| carogray | Ja I expect not, but every time I put in a .js I try it to see. I don't actually use that much at all. | 13:45 |
| +bartjol | yeah, the guy is smart, but pretty sure he gave a presentation about that | 13:45 |
| carogray | well that's probably where I heard | 13:46 |
| carogray | it | 13:46 |
| carogray | How is your language stuff coming along? | 13:46 |
| carogray | I just started trying something new thinking I was so clever, but realized it isn't that great after all. | 13:46 |
| +bartjol | http://www.webgui.org/wgtv/tricking-people-into-thinking-your-website-is-fast#idhXgZGkUAK02TTzGjb9kXUw | 13:47 |
| +bartjol | well my language stuff is finished (as far as I will go) | 13:48 |
| +bartjol | it is implemented since 7.8 | 13:48 |
| carogray | I create one language box on the English page with links to all of the other languages for that page in the article, but the html is commented out. | 13:48 |
| carogray | OH yes, that was patrick | 13:48 |
| carogray | is he the same patspam in australia? | 13:48 |
| +bartjol | well, he live in New York now | 13:48 |
| +bartjol | lives | 13:48 |
| carogray | huh | 13:48 |
| +bartjol | but it's the very same | 13:49 |
| carogray | still working for Australian company though or did he change companies? | 13:49 |
| +bartjol | but for conetnt in different areas the solution is still not ideal | 13:49 |
| +bartjol | he works for google now | 13:49 |
| carogray | wow - that doesn't surprise me at all | 13:50 |
| carogray | it kind of validates that he is in fact as brilliant as he appeared to be | 13:50 |
| +bartjol | he went there mostly to go live with his girlfriend | 13:50 |
| carogray | oh I love that | 13:50 |
| carogray | what's she do - think we shouldn't be gossiping like this? | 13:50 |
| +bartjol | but on the language box, can you expand? | 13:51 |
| +bartjol | well | 13:51 |
| carogray | ah yes.. | 13:51 |
| +bartjol | he can read it in the logs | 13:51 |
| carogray | right thought so | 13:51 |
| carogray | so language box.. | 13:51 |
| +bartjol | can I see it somewhere? | 13:51 |
| +bartjol | and you are trying to go to defiirent content areas, or changing webgui language? | 13:52 |
| carogray | then I thought instead of making 6 copies of each language box and copying and pasting the same stuff but different languages commented out, i would just make shortcuts and then use the overrides in the different languages | 13:52 |
| carogray | go to differen content areas | 13:52 |
| carogray | different | 13:52 |
| +bartjol | what version are you running? | 13:53 |
| carogray | for example http://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/dv/vawa-federal-public-housing | 13:53 |
| carogray | umm 7.7.21 | 13:54 |
| carogray | for some reason I thought we had upgraded to .35 | 13:54 |
| carogray | but it doesn't seem to be the case | 13:54 |
| +bartjol | how do you see it exactly, via the page info? | 13:55 |
| carogray | don't understand your question | 13:55 |
| +bartjol | because that can be just hardcoded in the template | 13:56 |
| +bartjol | how you get your version | 13:56 |
| carogray | oh.. your asking me about version | 13:56 |
| +bartjol | sorry | 13:56 |
| carogray | yes, | 13:56 |
| carogray | view source | 13:56 |
| carogray | but I am pretty sure it's not hard coded into template(s) | 13:56 |
| +bartjol | ok, go to the admin console and choose statistics | 13:56 |
| +bartjol | there you get the real version | 13:57 |
| carogray | <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> | 13:57 |
| carogray | <html> | 13:57 |
| carogray | <head> | 13:57 |
| carogray | <title>^Page(title); - <tmpl_var session.setting.companyName></title> | 13:57 |
| carogray | <link href="^/;mlh-shared/snippets/global.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"></link> | 13:57 |
| +bartjol | that is also fakeable, but it costs much more effort, and you would be aware | 13:57 |
| carogray | <script type="text/javascript" src="^/;global.js"></script> | 13:57 |
| carogray | <tmpl_var head.tags> | 13:57 |
| carogray | </head> | 13:57 |
| carogray | shitQ! | 13:57 |
| carogray | sorry | 13:57 |
| +bartjol | what foul language :) | 13:58 |
| carogray | WebGUI Build Version:7.7.21-stableLatest version available:7.9.18-stable | 13:58 |
| carogray | yes I know, sorry | 13:58 |
| carogray | mouse is broken and fingers getting itchy using touch pad | 13:59 |
| +bartjol | ok, so there are not too many options from webgui itself | 13:59 |
| carogray | if we were running more recent versions there would be webgui options? | 13:59 |
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| +bartjol | well, you might also be able to use some other languages as session language (not all that you need, but the webgui language files are not really what we need | 14:00 |
| +bartjol | it is the possibility to set a scratch variable in the session and be able to detect that | 14:01 |
| +bartjol | if messages from webgui don't exist, you'll just get english | 14:01 |
| carogray | you are a couple of steps beyond what I know here, I am just remembering what you said about recognizing other languages from where they are in the directory structure.. or at least that's what I understood you to mean when you explained your ideas to me last year. | 14:02 |
| +bartjol | well, there are different ways :) | 14:03 |
| +bartjol | but that is indeed the other option I developed, but too hard to use to get it into the core | 14:04 |
| carogray | with my shortcuts solution it still means I have to go into each language box and edit, but there is still less opportunity for mistakes if the only thing I am editing is commenting in and out and one language box has all of the languages, titles and urls in one place. | 14:04 |
| carogray | oh my goodness it's already light out here! | 14:06 |
| carogray | now I have to go feed all the critters and get back to work and not keep you from yours any longer. Thanks for chat | 14:06 |
| +bartjol | well if you need something, you know where to find me | 14:07 |
| carogray | ja, thanks - what is danke in dutch? | 14:07 |
| +bartjol | bedankt | 14:07 |
| carogray | bedanktQ! | 14:08 |
| carogray | oops | 14:08 |
| carogray | bedankt | 14:08 |
| +bartjol | mmm, you have something with capital q's | 14:08 |
| carogray | yes, itchy little finger keeps falling on it. | 14:08 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings! | 14:15 |
| SquOnk | FYI, webgui 7.9.18 is back into Debian Sid | 14:15 |
| SquOnk | It can be installed on Squeeze by means of pinning (I'll update the WiKi page later) | 14:16 |
| +bartjol | cool | 14:17 |
| SquOnk | This is the last webgui package that will have all languages bundled together. Starting from 7.9.19-1, webgui will have English only, but you'll be able to install webgui-i18n-es, webgui-i18n-de and webgui-i18n-du | 14:17 |
| +bartjol | we got rid of the GNU/GPL problems? | 14:17 |
| SquOnk | ...to save space :-) | 14:17 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Not completely, but almost there. | 14:17 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: The .swf issue is still there, but since webgui is not targeted for Squeeze, the bug can be open | 14:18 |
| SquOnk | What will be the fifth translation bundled? Who's "winning", so to speak? :-) | 14:19 |
| +bartjol | polish is quite far | 14:20 |
| +bartjol | over 50% | 14:20 |
| +bartjol | how will that work during upgrades? I don't suppose aptitude does support webgui updates | 14:23 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Indeed it does | 14:24 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: If you are upgrading from 7.x.y to 7.x.z, z > y, it runs the upgrade scripts for you. | 14:25 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Major upgrades are a WIP. The package will check if you're upgrading from an upgradeable version before doing it, or it will let you know what to do. | 14:25 |
| +bartjol | ok, and does it check perl environment? | 14:26 |
| +bartjol | maybe I should replace my installl by the bedian package | 14:27 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: You mean for needed dependencies? The package won't install unless all dependencies are Debian-provided. | 14:27 |
| +bartjol | debian, excuse me | 14:27 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: The 7.9.18 package took this long because I was waiting for libmonkey-patch-perl to make it into Sid :-) | 14:27 |
| +bartjol | ok, so running testEnvironmnet is still needed | 14:27 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Only if you want to double check my work :-) | 14:28 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: The Debian package states the needed dependencies, aptitude brings them in. | 14:28 |
| +bartjol | I mostly switched to manual upgrade, because of gotcha's | 14:28 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Everytime WebGUI adds a new dependency, I add it to the package dependency list and if it wasn't in Debian before, I make that happen too. | 14:29 |
| +bartjol | ah | 14:29 |
| +bartjol | very nice | 14:29 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Another thing I'm going to work on is having Debian's tinymce package have at least spanish, german and dutch translations... | 14:31 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: ...so the webgui package can count on them being there :-) | 14:31 |
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| +bartjol | also very cool, but I thought those were included in the source of webgui | 14:37 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Even if they were, Debian does not allow wholesaling, meaning that I have to strip WebGUI's sources taking out YUI and TinyMCE, and have the package use their Debian packages instead. | 14:39 |
| +bartjol | whoa, that packaging is more work than I thought | 14:40 |
| +bartjol | prolly especially the first time | 14:40 |
| SquOnk | bartjol: Indeed | 14:56 |
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| SDuensin | FrIdAy! | 16:29 |
| +bartjol | so it is | 16:50 |
| SDuensin | Good thing, too. Work is sucking my will to live. | 16:51 |
| +bartjol | time for other work? | 16:51 |
| SDuensin | Has been since I started here. | 16:53 |
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| +bartjol | howdy perlDreamer | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol! | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | hey | 18:14 |
| +bartjol | ho! | 18:14 |
| +perlDreamer | how are things back east? | 18:14 |
| +bartjol | good, tonight menu deciding for a xhristmas dinner\ | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | cool | 18:15 |
| +bartjol | where I hsall be sous-chef | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | That's tempting enough to ask for an invitation | 18:15 |
| +perlDreamer | I've had your cooking before, and it's awesome | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | mainly cutting vegetables and trying to translate the chefs shouting to normal, polite requests | 18:16 |
| +perlDreamer | that's kind of what I do for WebGUI :) | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | well, it is open, you can buy tickets | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | :) | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | indeed it is | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, plane fare to The Netherlands | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | are there discounts for visiting dignataries? | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | the dinner itself will only be 15 euro's I believe | 18:17 |
| +perlDreamer | that's very reasonable for dinner | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | well, I can inform you on the menu, after that you can decide that you WILL come | 18:18 |
| +bartjol | it is one organised by that youth society | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | hm, after my anniversary party I'm not sure I could afford it all | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | today marks the 2 year anniversary of PerlDreamer Consulting | 18:20 |
| +bartjol | aah, congratulations | 18:20 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks | 18:22 |
| +bartjol | and how are you celebrating | 18:24 |
| +bartjol | you could have hired me as cook | 18:24 |
| +perlDreamer | you'd fly out to Portland? | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | well, there are additional incentives to coming to Portland | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | we have more breweries than Madison | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | but we don't have Sarah or JT | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | the seafood is much more fresh in Portland | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | and we have lots of cows and cheese | 18:25 |
| +bartjol | well the price of hiring me iincludes the ticket fare | 18:26 |
| +bartjol | the rest does sounds good | 18:26 |
| +bartjol | except the lack of JT and Sarah of course | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I've tried to get them to mvoe | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | move | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | JT is mad for electric cars | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | and we're getting a whole fleet of them in Portland | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | along with charging stations | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | ah, cool, I saw those things in France | 18:32 |
| @khenn | Electric cars? | 18:54 |
| @khenn | really? | 18:54 |
| @khenn | what kind? | 18:54 |
| @khenn | the 25mph things? | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | Nissan Leafs | 18:54 |
| @khenn | ah | 18:54 |
| @khenn | nice | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | oh no, they go faster than 25 mph | 18:54 |
| @khenn | yeah | 18:54 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r68638c2 / lib/WebGUI/Wizard/Setup.pm : Fix incorrect translation of $user->profileField to $user->get. ProfileField was a mutator, not just an accessor. - http://bit.ly/a4RmY4 | 18:54 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rd02472c / (lib/WebGUI/Session.pm lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm): Change Session::ID to no longer need a session. Instead, you pass it a seed for salting the hash generation. - http://bit.ly/bbhXca | 18:54 |
| +perlDreamer | khenn, I wouldn't mind one of the 25 mph cars, since most of the things I drive to on a weekly basis are all on surface streets and quite close to home | 19:04 |
| @khenn | I just got a Prius | 19:05 |
| @khenn | and though 46-48 mpg is good | 19:05 |
| @khenn | I'd rather not pay for gas at all =) | 19:05 |
| +perlDreamer | there are ways to hack them to all electrical | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | and to add more/better batteries | 19:08 |
| +perlDreamer | but you'll void your warranty doing it | 19:08 |
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| @khenn | and you probably need some knowledge and general interest in cars | 19:17 |
| @khenn | neither of which I have | 19:17 |
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| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 20:11 | |
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| @preaction | hm... apparently a long time ago I left a TODO test for a feature for the Redirect asset to pass on query parameters in the redirect... | 20:55 |
| @preaction | i like the idea. i should add more TODO tests for features I want to the core WebGUI | 20:55 |
| @preaction | which reminds me! perlDreamer whatever became of the Asset Diff branch? | 20:55 |
| @preaction | tee hee hee i'm deleting code, lots of code, lots and lots and lots of code, tee hee hee! | 21:00 |
| @preaction | 3800 lines of test results verified and fixed. 5000 to go | 21:38 |
| @preaction | fun fact: a full test run with debug and verbose is over 20,000 lines of output | 21:38 |
| @preaction | we should stick more of these in to xt/, or is xt not to be used for release test runs? | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | xt should be used for release tests | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | no bad template | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | no missing i18n | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | no bad POD | 21:40 |
| +perlDreamer | however, end users shouldn't have to run tests | 21:41 |
| @preaction | right, but i think t/ is for "development tests", you run often while developing. xt is for "release tests", you run once when you're ready to commit to make sure your code is up to standards | 21:41 |
| @preaction | but then i'm probably wrong | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | without meaning offense to other developers, but every commit should pass development tests | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | because I'm not writing POD for 120 modules again | 21:42 |
| @preaction | yes, before you commit you should pass both t/ and xt/ | 21:42 |
| +perlDreamer | ah, but if they have to remember to _run_ both...? | 21:42 |
| @preaction | but t/ is for while you're developing, you can run them often to make sure you're not breaking stuff | 21:43 |
| @preaction | xt is like our CODE_COP | 21:43 |
| @preaction | well, they don't run CODE_COP as it is | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:43 |
| @preaction | damned social problems that can't be solved by technical means... | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | and the CODE_COP tests take 40 minutes to run | 21:43 |
| +perlDreamer | yay, one less leaky test in the world! | 21:51 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rcd0986e / t/Exception/app.t : Fix session leak from this test. - http://bit.ly/9L1Ssz | 21:51 |
| @preaction | crap... i fixed that too :( | 21:52 |
| @preaction | i'm fixing every leak ever! ;) | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | how did you fix it? | 21:52 |
| @preaction | well, no, it's just gonna conflict | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | You da man! | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | no it won't | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | I'll rollback my commit | 21:52 |
| @preaction | no worries | 21:52 |
| +perlDreamer | but, please assign that ticket to yourself so I don't do it again ;) | 21:52 |
| @preaction | it's not a big deal | 21:52 |
| @preaction | it's not that ticket though, it's addRevision. i don't know what leaks are causing problems | 21:53 |
| @preaction | 4888 lines of output to go... | 21:53 |
| @preaction | 120 lines in 15 minutes... sigh... | 21:53 |
| +perlDreamer | aren't you using that ack thing I sent yesterday to isolate the leaks? | 21:54 |
| @preaction | no, it didn't work | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | what? | 21:54 |
| +perlDreamer | http://gist.github.com/707041 | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what it prints out for me | 21:55 |
| +perlDreamer | so, prove -rm --verbose t | ack '(?:^# \w+\s*:\s*\d+\s*.delta)|(?:^\S+?\.t)' | 22:01 |
| +perlDreamer | or capture and post process | 22:01 |
| +perlDreamer | and this could be my favorite | 22:01 |
| +perlDreamer | prove -rm --verbose t | tee proven | ack '(?:^# \w+\s*:\s*\d+\s*.delta)|(?:^\S+?\.t)' | 22:01 |
| +perlDreamer | so you just get a status and leaks on STDOUT | 22:02 |
| * perlDreamer goes to grab some chow | 22:02 | |
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| +perlDreamer | preaction: maybe it'd be easier for you to say what you hate about the Icon API, instead of going through pre-development discovery | 23:16 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm not overly fond of it either, because it's not DRY | 23:17 |
| @preaction | i hate that edit() cut() and etc... are individual methods | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | but I suspect you have other concerns than that | 23:17 |
| +perlDreamer | so we'd have 12 Packages that have to know the icon and i18n label for Edit? | 23:17 |
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| @preaction | 1500 lines of test output to go. i've touched 70% of the test scripts in WebGUI... | 01:57 |
| @preaction | 419 to go! yay! | 02:01 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Graham Knop WebGUI8 * re71e955 / (lib/WebGUI/Session/Id.pm t/Session/Id.t lib/WebGUI/GUID.pm): add WebGUI::GUID and make WebGUI::Session::Id a wrapper around that - http://bit.ly/cUMzXY | 02:33 |
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| Alyohara | !rules | 04:34 |
| Alyohara | !list | 04:34 |
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| elnino | anyone awake? | 06:16 |
| elnino | when the admin guide says "apache config" file, they mean the modproxy.conf files, right? | 06:18 |
| elnino | when do you ever modify the modproxy.conf files? | 06:18 |
| elnino | and last question of the evening, in regards to passthruurls, what was the webgui conf file directive called that you can write/set to different handlers for passthruurls? I'm not seeing it in the admin guide. Thanks! | 06:21 |
| @preaction | it may mean the .modproxy file, it may mean the .modperl file | 06:22 |
| @preaction | and you're thinking urlHandlers i think | 06:22 |
| elnino | ok. and yes! it is. thanks. | 06:22 |
| elnino | have a good night preaction. Thanks for being up and awake! | 06:23 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb640216 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Remove URL handlers from config files, and from the default config file. Add a stub to the migration notes that URLHandlers are now done as Plack Middleware. - http://bit.ly/aCPRc4 | 03:26 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rb830bd8 / docs/migration.txt : Add documentation about the removal of WebGUI::Session::Var and how to handle migration. - http://bit.ly/cU1jwI | 03:37 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re5adc07 / (27 files in 16 dirs): Remove getStatus and setStatus in Session::Http, and replace them with status, from $session->status. - http://bit.ly/aLGmkN | 07:12 |
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| +perlDreamer | man, I love refactoring code! | 07:45 |
| +perlDreamer | it's just awesome | 07:45 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * rfd8f03a / (52 files in 20 dirs): Change getMimeType and setMimeType to response->content_type. - http://bit.ly/c3YD9k | 08:36 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, Haarg: I'm looking at the task to eliminate Session->Http, and it looks to me like content chunking is basically dead. | 08:54 |
| +perlDreamer | there's no way to push the headers out early, since we ship back a response object to Plack | 08:54 |
| +perlDreamer | This would have big implications to the design of Assets in 8, and could lead to getting rid of prepareView | 08:55 |
| +perlDreamer | does that sound right to y'all? | 08:55 |
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| SDuensin | Hey gang. | 16:33 |
| plainhao | happy thanksgiving monday | 16:37 |
| SDuensin | It won't be truly happy until Thursday. :-/ | 16:39 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8b6bbdb / (9 files in 4 dirs): Remove setFilename, getFilename from Session::Http, and use Plack::Response methods instead. - http://bit.ly/anXrC0 | 18:07 |
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| +perlDreamer | hey, sbaur! | 18:17 |
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| sbaur | hi perldreamer! | 18:17 |
| sbaur | i figured I'd start lurking, maybe i'd learn something :) | 18:18 |
| +perlDreamer | lurk away ;) | 18:18 |
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| * SDuensin is good at lurking | 18:19 | |
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| +perlDreamer | dang, I think streaming file downloads are broken in WebGUI 8 | 18:26 |
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| Haarg | perlDreamer, having content chunking and allowing headers to be set may not be possible without changing the program flow | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I know | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't think losing content chunking is necessarily a bad thing | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | because it makes assets easier to handle | 19:22 |
| +perlDreamer | no more prepareView :) | 19:23 |
| +perlDreamer | no more worries about JS and CSS in the body of the content | 19:24 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r995b04e / (8 files in 6 dirs): Remove getRedirectLocation and setRedirectLocation from Session::Http - http://bit.ly/dnqqzM | 19:29 |
| +perlDreamer | well, there's not too much left in Session::Http anymore | 19:33 |
| Haarg | we could possibly make something where you can call ->sendHeader (or something like it) and pass in a subref | 19:37 |
| Haarg | and inside that you would do chunking stuff | 19:38 |
| Haarg | which would make it relatively easy to adapt existing code | 19:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | Haarg, you think I might be premature about thinking about getting rid of prepareView? | 19:51 |
| Haarg | as annoying as content chunking is, i'm not sure we want to remove it | 19:51 |
| +perlDreamer | gut feel, backwards compat, or something else? | 19:52 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * re7fcf33 / (5 files in 4 dirs): Move ifModifiedSince into WebGUI::Session::Request - http://bit.ly/bLxbUY | 19:54 |
| Haarg | it does improve the user experience somewhat | 19:54 |
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| +perlDreamer | well as it stands now, content chunking doesn't work at all | 20:09 |
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| +perlDreamer | I think | 20:10 |
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| Haarg | did the docs/testing/prepreq changes get done for WebGUI::GUID? | 23:34 |
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| elnino | anyone here use vmware? | 03:04 |
| elnino | I can't for the life of me figure out how to share fies on my host machine to my virtual machine.. | 03:08 |
| elnino | I have the directory shared on my host machine, but it isn't listed in my virtual machine. | 03:08 |
| elnino | it won't let me add it. | 03:08 |
| elnino | I go to vm ware player->shareed folders, and the config window comes up, foldersharing is "always enabled" and nothign is listed in my folders area. The properties button is grayed. I right click double click and sort of things, and I can't seem to add anything like all the documentation makes it sound like I should | 03:18 |
| elnino | . I'm running 2.5.x workstation for windows 2000. I suppose everyone here is going to say, "upgrade"..... | 03:19 |
| elnino | sigh. | 03:19 |
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| +perlDreamer | elnino: I use VirtualBox, and it's in the instructions on how to do it | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | VirtualBox is free | 04:18 |
| +perlDreamer | and it can run VMWare images | 04:18 |
| elnino | Thanks perlDreamer. I'll look into it. | 04:31 |
| +perlDreamer | I used to make the latest WebGUI VM image | 04:31 |
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| elnino | sigh. VirtualBox doesn't support win2000 either. maybe I should ask for an upgrade for Christmas | 04:53 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm sorry elnino. | 05:15 |
| elnino | no problem. I knew the time would come. | 05:15 |
| +perlDreamer | elnino: if you can find a copy of VirtualBox 1.6, it WILL support win2k | 05:15 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, the version just before 1.6 | 05:16 |
| elnino | I'll give a try. | 05:17 |
| elnino | meanwhile. what is the concensus... xp or vista? | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | XP | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | or 7 | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | skip vista if you can | 05:17 |
| elnino | that was quick. | 05:17 |
| elnino | 7 is ok? | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | it's better than vist | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | vista | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | which could be better than gall bladder surgery | 05:17 |
| +perlDreamer | it's a relativism | 05:18 |
| elnino | so.. long ago I heard that ms was going to mess with the licenses. | 05:18 |
| elnino | something to the affect that it would force you to upgrade, or somethign ridiculus. | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | wouldn't doubt it, but you don't really have much choice these days | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | any new box is going to come with 7 | 05:19 |
| +perlDreamer | unless you switch to MacOS, or Ubuntu | 05:19 |
| elnino | whoo hoo! http://www.oldapps.com/virtualbox.php?old_virtualbox=3 | 05:23 |
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| +perlDreamer | now, will it do shared folders for you? | 05:42 |
| elnino | still installing.. =) | 05:46 |
| elnino | and downloading vmware from wg.org.... | 05:46 |
| elnino | so.. it's asking me about a image disk. do I give it the file I'm downloading from webgui? | 05:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | elnino, probably best to start with the VirtualBox users manual | 06:47 |
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| elnino | yep | 06:47 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:29 |
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| SquOnk | Greetings. | 19:07 |
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| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell master * rf727fe3 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Session/Icon.pm): fix 11974 toolbar icons broken in webkit html5 - http://bit.ly/fefeMl | 22:34 |
| Haarg | i don't know why i didn't fix that years ago. i know i saw that problem, but maybe that's when we were firmly stuck in "don't change anything ever" mode | 22:36 |
| CIA-74 | webgui: Doug Bell webgui-7.9 * rb30510f / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Session/Icon.pm): fix 11974 toolbar icons broken in webkit html5 - http://bit.ly/eeQL7F | 22:36 |
| @preaction | most likely. i remember the exact same "I shouldn't fix this" attitude | 22:37 |
| @preaction | but then, back then there wasn't any compelling reason other than "it's the stupidest possible usage of <p> in the universe" | 22:37 |
| Haarg | well, it kind of was | 22:38 |
| Haarg | because the toolbar was stuck in <p> tags in the template | 22:38 |
| Haarg | or something like that | 22:38 |
| Haarg | and p tags can't be nested or have other block tags in them | 22:38 |
| @preaction | right, because it won't validate | 22:39 |
| Haarg | validation doesn't really enter into it | 22:40 |
| Haarg | the browser will rearrange the dom to get the block tags out of the p | 22:40 |
| @preaction | fun. the validParent() subs check $session->asset. pasteInFork doesn't set a session->asset. | 22:48 |
| @preaction | and pasteInFork is not tested. | 22:49 |
| Haarg | cool | 22:50 |
| +perlDreamer | not tested? | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | I think we need to stop allowing branch merges, and mandate squashed merges | 23:04 |
| +perlDreamer | there's no other way to verify what's incoming and review it that I can think of | 23:05 |
| Haarg | how do squashed merges make that any different? | 23:05 |
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| * perlDreamer says ignorantly, "Wouldn't the whole thing be in 1 commit, where you can see what's documented, tested, etc.?" | 23:19 | |
| Haarg | it's all one commit sure, but you could just as easily look at everything that's in the branch | 23:22 |
| Haarg | well, maybe not just as easily | 23:22 |
| Haarg | but it's not hard | 23:22 |
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| +perlDreamer | "clue me in, Odd-one" | 23:41 |
| +perlDreamer | sorry, little Dean Koontz quote there | 23:42 |
| --- Day changed Wed Nov 24 2010 | ||
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| @preaction | so in order to test pasteInFork, would it be a good idea to mock the $process object? i've never had to use MockObject, not sure on the use-case | 00:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | how did frodwith test the other code? | 00:59 |
| @preaction | afaict it is the $process itself being tested in the other code | 01:02 |
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| @preaction | now i'm confused. what is useContainers for in the Search asset if it only works on Thread assets? | 01:19 |
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| @preaction | oh, no, Thread is just special-cased | 01:24 |
| @preaction | so query: If the Container is not visible to the user, but the Asset is, should we still give them the Container URL or the Asset URL? | 01:24 |
| @preaction | i'm thinking Asset URL | 01:25 |
| +perlDreamer | If the container is not visible to the user, then they shouldn't be able to see the children wither? | 01:26 |
| @preaction | why not? | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | how would you get there? | 01:26 |
| @preaction | i can't set a Folder to "Admin" and a file inside to "Visitor"? | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | Nav won't do it | 01:26 |
| @preaction | a direct link, or in this case, a search | 01:26 |
| +perlDreamer | imo, it's bad group config on the user's end | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | shouldn't be done | 01:27 |
| @preaction | for this use-case, they don't want the Folder asset to be browsed by users | 01:27 |
| @preaction | why? | 01:27 |
| +perlDreamer | if you want them to get to an asset, put it somewhere they can see it | 01:27 |
| @preaction | this is easy to do in a normal, static apache site | 01:27 |
| @preaction | they can see it, they have permission, that's what Group To View is for, no? | 01:27 |
| @preaction | they just can't see the container it's in | 01:27 |
| @preaction | i can see your argument: it's an inversion of "least specific -> most specific" in a tree | 01:28 |
| +perlDreamer | so, if they can't see the container, what happens if the asset calls getParent? | 01:28 |
| @preaction | everything's perfectly fine. permissions do not prevent instantiation | 01:29 |
| @preaction | i actually agree with you really, and the user actually agrees with you, but their entire site is designed in this way, and my opinion is that this breaks expectations: the Search Results are already checked against permissions, only permitted assets appear, but then we give them a URL they aren't permitted to view? | 01:30 |
| @preaction | so the end-user leaves, never to return, because we revealed something we never intended to | 01:31 |
| @preaction | and this special-casing in the Search asset is going to make this fix a damned nightmare... | 01:35 |
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| +perlDreamer | I understand. | 02:51 |
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| SDuensin | Morning gang. | 17:00 |
| +bartjol | I am not a halway | 17:05 |
| SDuensin | I'm American. Gangs here are groups of thugs. :-P | 17:08 |
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| Getty | on what hardware runs the demo site? | 17:27 |
| +bartjol | search for the phpinfo file :P | 17:42 |
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| Getty | lol ;) | 18:01 |
| Getty | its definitly bad performance | 18:01 |
| Getty | bartjol: you run a webgui site? | 18:01 |
| +bartjol | I do | 18:02 |
| Getty | on what kind of hardware and can you give me an url? i just make 100 tests requests mit apachebench | 18:03 |
| Getty | mit=with | 18:04 |
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| +bartjol | well I run it on a VM | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | debian | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | 512MB mem and 1 virtual cpu | 18:05 |
| +bartjol | www.bartjol.nl | 18:06 |
| +bartjol | whicj is slow | 18:06 |
| Getty | sounds like a good test if i may | 18:08 |
| Getty | lol connection refused | 18:08 |
| +bartjol | oh, I just brought it doen | 18:09 |
| +bartjol | 1 sec | 18:09 |
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| +bartjol | mysql started | 18:10 |
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| +bartjol | modperl up | 18:10 |
| +bartjol | and the rest too, go ahead getty | 18:11 |
| Getty | already running | 18:11 |
| Getty | doesnt look good | 18:11 |
| Getty | i restart | 18:11 |
| +bartjol | whoohoo, traffic on my site | 18:11 |
| Getty | wtf 8-) | 18:12 |
| Getty | Requests per second: 2.70 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:12 |
| Getty | also not good for promotion | 18:12 |
| +bartjol | well, it is not from my Ip | 18:13 |
| Getty | thats my site: Requests per second: 181.72 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:13 |
| Getty | thats a high class typo3: Requests per second: 22.11 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:14 |
| Getty | (lol) | 18:14 |
| Getty | but so far the best i have is the demo site of webgui | 18:14 |
| Getty | which gives..... 8 requests / sec. | 18:14 |
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| +bartjol | so that is what it can handle? | 18:16 |
| Getty | yes | 18:16 |
| Getty | its a "small bad test" so not really something showing detailed | 18:16 |
| +bartjol | so the number of answers you get for requests | 18:16 |
| Getty | but if we talk about dimensions its enough | 18:16 |
| Getty | yes, i did a "100 requests, 5 parallels" tests | 18:16 |
| Getty | so he tries to bring through 100 requests with maximum of 5 parallel | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | so my site is worst of all? | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | well, it is for testing purposes | 18:17 |
| +bartjol | and not speed tests that is | 18:18 |
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| +bartjol | bringing it down again | 18:18 |
| Getty | yes your site suxx | 18:18 |
| Getty | definitly | 18:18 |
| Getty | ;) | 18:18 |
| Getty | i got a 512 MB Linode with nginx | 18:19 |
| Getty | so far he just delivers static files but: | 18:19 |
| Getty | Requests per second: 117.81 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:19 |
| Getty | if i do 20 parallels it does: | 18:20 |
| Getty | Requests per second: 465.59 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:20 |
| Getty | so its probably just a speed problem of the connection | 18:20 |
| +bartjol | df -h | 18:22 |
| Getty | no ab -n 100 -c 5 ;) lol | 18:22 |
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| Getty | hey perlDreamer | 18:24 |
| +perlDreamer | yo, Getty! | 18:24 |
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| Getty | do you know a webgui installation which makes a good result on an apache bench? ;) (best in europe/germany) | 18:24 |
| +perlDreamer | what's a "good result" defined as? | 18:25 |
| Getty | the demo site has 8 requests / sec. ....... | 18:25 |
| Getty | something better | 18:25 |
| Getty | ;) | 18:25 |
| +perlDreamer | hm... | 18:25 |
| Getty | i must have one result which is higher then 22 requests / sec. | 18:25 |
| Getty | cause that is what typo3 highclass hosting in germany gives you | 18:26 |
| Getty | you know crush the enemy blabla, i need facts | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it feels odd giving you the name of a site so you can hammer it with apache bench | 18:26 |
| +perlDreamer | but, I'd try any of the sites listed on webgui.org, in the sightings area | 18:26 |
| Getty | i dont "hammer" | 18:26 |
| Getty | i do 100 requests 5 parallels | 18:26 |
| Getty | nothign interesting for the world | 18:26 |
| Getty | i dont make "100% detailed accurate results" | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | did you try webgui.org ? | 18:27 |
| Getty | not really, dont know if your site yourself runs on webgui LOL ;) | 18:27 |
| Getty | where is it located? | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | oh, you need a webgui site in Europe? | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 18:27 |
| +perlDreamer | bartjol: ping | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | http://webgui.nl/ | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | pong | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | ? | 18:28 |
| +perlDreamer | thanks man ;) | 18:28 |
| Getty | Requests per second: 8.98 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | maybe that one is better | 18:28 |
| Getty | webgui org ;) | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | that is usa | 18:28 |
| Getty | Requests per second: 20.71 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:28 |
| Getty | :-/ | 18:28 |
| +bartjol | not europe | 18:28 |
| Getty | i higher parallels if i may, that can tune the result in our direction ;) | 18:28 |
| Getty | no.... thats bad..... | 18:29 |
| Getty | with 20 parallels i get still 11.40 requests / sec only | 18:29 |
| Getty | thats really bad :-/ | 18:29 |
| +bartjol | well, lemme have a look | 18:33 |
| Getty | i hope we find something that gives better result :-/ | 18:33 |
| Getty | webgui MUST be faster than typo3, i dont want to believe its not | 18:33 |
| +bartjol | http://www.mwh.nl/ ? | 18:36 |
| Getty | <thumbdown> | 18:37 |
| Getty | same | 18:37 |
| Getty | a bit faster than webgui.nl | 18:37 |
| Getty | but just around 10% | 18:37 |
| Getty | still brakes down on higher parallels | 18:37 |
| Getty | Requests per second: 3212.26 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:38 |
| +bartjol | www.huubdejonge.nl | 18:38 |
| Getty | this is what i get on 200 parallels ;) | 18:38 |
| +bartjol | last try I got | 18:38 |
| +bartjol | well, serious attempt | 18:38 |
| +bartjol | but on what kind of hardware is that build? | 18:39 |
| Getty | this 3212? | 18:39 |
| Getty | on a 512MB Linode, nginx (but delivering static files, so its not 100% fair of course) | 18:39 |
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| +bartjol | well mine are all apache | 18:43 |
| +bartjol | no starman | 18:43 |
| Getty | yeah i know | 18:43 |
| Getty | but... | 18:43 |
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| Getty | Requests per second: 201.42 [#/sec] (mean) | 18:43 |
| Getty | this is also apache with fastcgi ;) | 18:44 |
| Getty | but yes i know webgui is not high speed on that level with the apache and mod_apache, but still, i dont believe that its not faster than a stupid typo3 installation, it would make me cry now | 18:44 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI 7 is not designed for speed | 18:50 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI 8 will perform much better | 18:50 |
| Getty | yeah sure, but i already thpought WebGUI7 should be a bit faster | 18:51 |
| Getty | i mean hey its typo3 | 18:51 |
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| +bartjol | well, have fun | 19:00 |
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| @preaction | and once again my forum signature saves me from posting as a user i became ("What the hell is this sig? It's not my .... ohhhhhhh") | 20:16 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction, I'm not sure what to do with what's left of Session::Http | 20:30 |
| +perlDreamer | it's pretty much just cache control | 20:30 |
| @preaction | nothing in Response to handle that? | 20:33 |
| +perlDreamer | no, Response is just a gateway for cookies and headers | 20:36 |
| +perlDreamer | I'd move the code into Repsonse, but the ticket says | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | "The less "improvements" we make to the underlying Plack::Request/Response API the better." | 20:37 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, I don't think there's any way around it | 20:40 |
| +perlDreamer | I've yarded out everything that can be | 20:40 |
| @preaction | we can move cache control to the responding plugin | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | 23 modules | 20:41 |
| +perlDreamer | that'll make it really hard to maintain | 20:41 |
| @preaction | how many are assets? | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | 18 | 20:42 |
| +perlDreamer | actually, all of them | 20:42 |
| @preaction | so 1 method in WebGUI::Asset | 20:42 |
| @preaction | i could swear that setCacheControl is already in there or something | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | that's a flag | 20:43 |
| +perlDreamer | in Http | 20:43 |
| @preaction | ah | 20:43 |
| @preaction | so now that we've got an idea for the new API, we go deeper into why we need it | 20:44 |
| @preaction | do we need to http cache if we are not backend caching? | 20:44 |
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| @preaction | i know asset does some pretty jacked things with http caching | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | I think the purpose is to help midline proxy cachers | 20:45 |
| +perlDreamer | and to try and reduce load on the server | 20:45 |
| @preaction | yes, and improve user experience through site responsiveness | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'm not sure it's working anymore, since content chunking is busted | 20:46 |
| @preaction | but right now, i believe webgui explicitly prevents all caching for logged-in users | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | it does | 20:46 |
| +perlDreamer | it's only for Visitor | 20:46 |
| @preaction | i think that is a shortsighted decision, as we move into more community-oriented websites | 20:47 |
| +perlDreamer | well, again, if there are midline proxy cachers, you don't want them to cache content for logged in users | 20:47 |
| @preaction | what makes logged-in users different? i could write macros that would screw things up for Visitors in caching situations | 20:48 |
| @preaction | i guess my argument is: when replacing this API, do not attempt to assume anything. we could use the same if-modified-since logic for logged-in users | 20:49 |
| +perlDreamer | then wouldn't dynamic assets and macros break? | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm of the mind, we know it works now, don't mess with it | 20:50 |
| @preaction | (and if we really wanted fancy, we could have macros deal with caching themselves too, a single mechanism to cache themselves backend and front) | 20:50 |
| @preaction | it works, but it prevents things | 20:50 |
| +perlDreamer | so there's a cost to it | 20:51 |
| @preaction | i am explicitly prevented from caching content for logged-in users. no way around it | 20:51 |
| @preaction | the problem: no way around it | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | ah | 20:51 |
| @preaction | give me an API method I can override! | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | so if there was a way around it, that would be okay? | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | that's completely different from where this started | 20:51 |
| @frodwith | preaction: You could either mock the process object or create one. | 20:51 |
| +perlDreamer | let's log a bug for it in 8, and deal with it later | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | API freeze looms over my head like a dark storm shadow | 20:52 |
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| @preaction | for now, yes. once there's a way around it, maintaining the old default behavior, we can re-evaluate how a baseline "do as little as possible without requiring copy-pasta everywhere" works | 20:52 |
| @preaction | frodwith: i'll probably just try mocking it | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, so, for now, I'll just move it into asset | 20:52 |
| +perlDreamer | and remove it from other locations | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | Content/Maintenance | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | and ProgressBar | 20:53 |
| @preaction | well, Maintenance probably needs it | 20:53 |
| @preaction | you want the user to reeval every time | 20:53 |
| @preaction | ProgressBar needs to not be cached too | 20:53 |
| +perlDreamer | hm | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | so now we're back to needing it in more than 1 place | 20:55 |
| +perlDreamer | how about we put it into Response | 20:55 |
| @preaction | i'm not against needing it in more than one place, provided i have the flexibility to override it | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | okay, I'll file an 8 ticket to make it overridable | 20:57 |
| +perlDreamer | and then close out Session::Http | 20:57 |
| * perlDreamer can see patspam dancing already! | 20:57 | |
| @preaction | okay, looking at what sendHeader does, we could simplify what the three places do | 20:59 |
| @preaction | only Asset needs the whole cache control thing | 20:59 |
| @preaction | Maintenance needs exactly: Cache-Control => "private, max-age=1" | 20:59 |
| @preaction | and ProgressBar needs that too | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | that's just it though | 21:00 |
| +perlDreamer | I'm lazy | 21:00 |
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| +perlDreamer | I don't want magic strings in more than 1 place | 21:00 |
| @preaction | you're setting an http header, you're going to set those everywhere | 21:01 |
| @preaction | content-type, for example | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | let me ask you, before you read the source, did you know what cache headers had to be set to? | 21:01 |
| +perlDreamer | content type is different | 21:01 |
| @preaction | how is it different? what's the JSON content type? | 21:02 |
| +perlDreamer | text/html, or application/json | 21:03 |
| @preaction | no, i had to look it up, but i also had to look up that method in Session::Http to figure out how it was called | 21:03 |
| +perlDreamer | not anymore :) | 21:04 |
| +perlDreamer | you set it in the Response object | 21:04 |
| @preaction | then i'd have to look somewhere else to figure out how the method is called. http cache isn't dealt with very often, you set it and you forget it | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | right, and you want it set in 1 place so you can forget about it forever | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | until next year | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | when we have to go and change it due to some new bug, or feature | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | and when that happens, we want to change it in 1 place | 21:05 |
| @preaction | and whoops it's not backwards compatible anymore! ohnoes! | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | then it's consistently not backwards compatible | 21:06 |
| +perlDreamer | no magic strings | 21:06 |
| @preaction | but we're keeping the same backwards compatibility guarantee | 21:06 |
| @preaction | it's not magic, it's part of the http protocol | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it's massaging proxy cachers and browsers | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it's like HTML and JS | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | for years and years we've had P tags for icons | 21:07 |
| @preaction | right, using an http header. a single http header that you can look up in the RFC that explains what it does | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | now someone starts using Chrome, and WebGUI has bugs | 21:07 |
| +perlDreamer | it's not a single header | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | there are 3 of them | 21:08 |
| @preaction | one if no cache. two if caching. three if anybody out there in the universe is still using HTTP 1.0 | 21:08 |
| +perlDreamer | dude, read lines 188-192 | 21:09 |
| +perlDreamer | if you're not logged in, it sets 3 headers | 21:09 |
| @preaction | i'm not on 8 right now, i've got unstaged crap in 7 | 21:10 |
| @preaction | or are we still in Session::Http? | 21:10 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | $request->no_cache(1) sets two headers | 21:11 |
| +perlDreamer | in Apache::Request | 21:12 |
| @preaction | uh, we set Cache-Control header twice? | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | just like always | 21:12 |
| +perlDreamer | that's what $request->no_cache does | 21:12 |
| @preaction | Pragma and Expires are both http 1.0 | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | WebGUI set them, one way or the other | 21:16 |
| +perlDreamer | well, technically WebGUI told apache to set them | 21:16 |
| +perlDreamer | so that 8 works the same as 7 | 21:16 |
| @preaction | how about this: what is being set is not important, it's the logic surrounding why they're being set | 21:17 |
| @preaction | we could have a Response->no_cache method like the APR stuff has that would set all the proper headers | 21:17 |
| +perlDreamer | isn't that the same as sendHeader with just a different name? | 21:18 |
| @preaction | but putting the "if ( $userId ne '1' ) {" in a deep API like Response would be very bad, i'd never be able to change that behavior | 21:18 |
| @preaction | no | 21:18 |
| @preaction | it'd be exactly what the APR method does, set Pragma => no-cache and Cache-control => no-cache | 21:19 |
| +perlDreamer | but if you don't want to do it, write your own www method, set the cookies and don't call sendHeader | 21:19 |
| @preaction | okay, but now i have to subclass an existing Asset, and copy/paste some code to remove sendHeader to improve the caching for the asset | 21:21 |
| +perlDreamer | yup | 21:22 |
| +perlDreamer | it's still possible | 21:22 |
| @preaction | i've now created a subclassed asset that will never get any bugfixes from the superclass | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | you've created a subclassed asset that needs to override 1 www method | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the danger of subclassing | 21:23 |
| @preaction | it's not a danger if the superclass is designed right | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | and in the meantime, we've kept the maintenance of the core to be manageable | 21:23 |
| +perlDreamer | and we haven't overdesigned it to accomodate potential cases | 21:24 |
| +perlDreamer | have you actually had a case where you needed to cache content for logged in users? | 21:24 |
| @preaction | we can abstract the http craziness, but i don't see why we need our Response logic to depend on what User is currently logged-in | 21:24 |
| @preaction | i don't know, WebGUI does not allow it. i can think of plenty of times where it'd have been nice, so many places where the content rarely changes but the caching just doesn't happen because i'm logged in | 21:25 |
| @preaction | the home page of webgui.org, for example, has not changed. when i'm logged in, it is the exact same as the last time i logged in | 21:25 |
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| +perlDreamer | but we don't have any way of knowing when it changes or not | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | it might have macros in it | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | and until we have a backend that's macro aware, you have to plan for the worst | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | which is that every snippet and Article and asset description will have macros and dynamic content | 21:26 |
| @preaction | but i don't have a choice! I have to always assume it does have macros in it. I can't build an Asset that overrides that functionality | 21:26 |
| +perlDreamer | not yet you can't, but once the other pieces are in place you could | 21:27 |
| @preaction | when will that happen? | 21:27 |
| Haarg | the same applies to non-logged in users, but it's treated as a known limitation | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | I don't know. I haven't seen it on the 8 list | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | but we have a deadline to meet | 21:27 |
| @preaction | why can't i give people a choice right now, and do the intelligent discovery of macros and othersuch in the future? | 21:27 |
| +perlDreamer | it's extra effort | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | and we have a deadline to meet | 21:28 |
| @preaction | behavior doesn't change, API does | 21:28 |
| +perlDreamer | then please give me a spec about what you want | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'll code it | 21:29 |
| +perlDreamer | just stick it into the ticket so I know what to do | 21:29 |
| @preaction | okay, less effort, because sendHeader doesn't just do caching, it does everything including redirects set from other places in the code | 21:35 |
| +perlDreamer | it doesn't do that in 8 | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | in 8, consumers access the request object directly | 21:36 |
| +perlDreamer | Http was just a place holder for data | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | how about this | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | let's table this til you can look at what I've done to Http in detail | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | then you spell out what you want | 21:37 |
| @preaction | ok | 21:37 |
| +perlDreamer | and I'll code it | 21:37 |
| * perlDreamer is very good at following orders | 21:37 | |
| * perlDreamer is very bad about being a perl-ish lazy argumentative bastard | 21:37 | |
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| @frodwith | that's okay perlDreamer, I'm lazy and argumentative enough for the both of us | 23:51 |
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| +perlDreamer | you can't be lazy anymore frodwith, you're going to fork a process | 00:10 |
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| +perlDreamer | Happy Thanksgiving everyone! | 01:16 |
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| qwebirc61787 | hello is anyone with ssl setup? | 07:29 |
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| CIA-99 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * ref3cbf3 / lib/WebGUI/FormBuilder/Role/HasFields.pm : Add short circuiting to deleteField method in FormBuilder. - http://bit.ly/dFQ5m3 | 05:41 |
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| CIA-99 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r0983362 / (lib/WebGUI/Crud.pm t/Crud.t t/Crud/serialize.t): Fix WebGUI::Crud to autowrite objects when created. - http://bit.ly/e6E851 | 08:02 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:38 |
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| +perlDreamer | morning, folks! | 17:52 |
| +perlDreamer | let's get this WebGUI 8 show on the road | 17:52 |
| @preaction | indubidubly | 17:55 |
| SDuensin | YES! | 17:55 |
| SDuensin | More GUIs! | 17:55 |
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| SDuensin | How's WG8 coming? The general stuff on the "8" page hasn't changed in awhile. | 18:01 |
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| +perlDreamer | 8's moving along very well | 18:03 |
| +perlDreamer | the 8 page shows all sorts of milestones and things that we want to happen in 8 | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | currently, we're working on getting API level changes done before the freeze | 18:04 |
| +perlDreamer | that's the highest priority | 18:04 |
| SDuensin | cool | 18:05 |
| SDuensin | I really need to work on my WG server. Been slacking. | 18:06 |
| +perlDreamer | SDuensin, you gotta step up to the plate if you want to keep your fanboy status | 18:21 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: let's put this Image::Graph thing to bed | 18:21 |
| SDuensin | lol | 18:21 |
| +perlDreamer | I need a way to add arbitrary JS to a form | 18:21 |
| @preaction | if it's not using $session->style->setScript, it's using ReadOnly field | 18:22 |
| +perlDreamer | it'll generate an empty row in the form | 18:22 |
| @preaction | not if you don't give it a name | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | all righty then. We'll do it that way | 18:23 |
| @preaction | wait | 18:23 |
| +perlDreamer | brb | 18:23 |
| @preaction | what the hell is this code doing? | 18:23 |
| @preaction | anyway, empty row is fine if it works, we can fix it later with something better | 18:24 |
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| +perlDreamer | so today was the first time I ran plack | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | and the admin mode looks very different than 7's | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | the whole admin interface renders inside a div/iframe that's about 200 pixels high | 19:34 |
| +perlDreamer | preaction: is that WIP, or is there something odd about FF? | 19:35 |
| CIA-99 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r5d4405f / (5 files in 4 dirs): Convert Image::Graph and Poll over to use FormBuilder. - http://bit.ly/hgIni8 | 19:38 |
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| CIA-99 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r1d19269 / lib/WebGUI/Session/Url.pm : Don't need weaken twice. - http://bit.ly/guqtui | 19:50 |
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| +perlDreamer | scrottie: skype-based ping | 20:47 |
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| CIA-99 | webgui: Paul Driver master * rb219324 / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed #11978: Pasting links into TinyMCE - http://bit.ly/fdEU7f | 22:55 |
| +perlDreamer | frodwith_: backport forthcoming? | 22:58 |
| frodwith_ | yup | 22:58 |
| +perlDreamer | you da man! | 22:58 |
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| +perlDreamer | now, where are the tests? | 22:59 |
| @preaction | it's mostly JS, what was the issue? | 23:00 |
| +perlDreamer | :) | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | mostly, teasing frodwith | 23:01 |
| +perlDreamer | but if he'd actually written tests... | 23:01 |
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| CIA-99 | webgui: Paul Driver webgui-7.9 * rdd05afb / (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed #11978: Pasting links into TinyMCE - http://bit.ly/guxGYO | 23:27 |
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| SDuensin | Morning. | 16:40 |
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| CIA-99 | webgui: Colin Kuskie WebGUI8 * r8cf5ce1 / t/Session/Request.t : Testing code moved out of t/Session/Http.t into t/Session/Request.t - http://bit.ly/fQl6Gm | 18:42 |
| CIA-99 | webgui: Colin Kuskie master * re211541 / (2 files in 2 dirs): entryId needs to be public for the earlier change to work. Fixes bug #11980 - http://bit.ly/fhnIhk | 18:53 |
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| @preaction | hooray for WebGUI 7 day! bugfixes bugfixes bugfixes | 19:10 |
| @preaction | oh, maybe i should merge my carousel features too | 19:10 |
| +perlDreamer | no | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | bugs only | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | if it's not a bug | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | we kill it! | 19:11 |
| * perlDreamer puts on his Bug Nazi Hat | 19:11 | |
| @preaction | today is 7.10 day? | 19:11 |
| +perlDreamer | yes | 19:11 |
| @preaction | shucks darn | 19:11 |
| SDuensin | Oh hell. That means I'll have to upgrade! | 19:11 |
| @preaction | next week then, i merge the carousel fixes finally, since i did them at the WUC | 19:11 |
| * perlDreamer goes to the gym | 19:12 | |
| +perlDreamer | if you were to merge in those changes while my back was turned, preaction, I wouldn't think poorly of you | 19:12 |
| +perlDreamer | since I was teasing in the first place ;) | 19:13 |
| @preaction | no, if i am to maintain the "no new features on release day" doctrine, i must adhere to it myself | 19:13 |
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| * perlDreamer salutes preaction for stalward adherence to rules | 20:27 | |
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| @preaction | which reminds me colin, i got some questions about EE for you when this is done | 21:05 |
| +perlDreamer | EE? | 21:13 |
| +perlDreamer | Electrical Engineering? | 21:13 |
| * perlDreamer is out to lunch | 21:45 | |
| +perlDreamer | and I don't necessarily mean physically :) | 21:45 |
| @preaction | right! so EE: I want to make a Plinko board with LEDs to follow the trail of the token as it goes down. There are 9 cols, 13 rows, so about 120 spots for LEDs. | 21:49 |
| @preaction | i need to be able to clear the entire board after the token is all the way down, so I think i need: one switch and one relay (SPST, latching) per LED, and a pushbutton to clear out the whole thing (sending a reverse pulse through the relay) | 21:51 |
| @preaction | i can leave out the switches if i make the token conductive, having two bare wires against the board and the token completes the circuit, but i still need the relays. 120 of them. at like $1 each, or more | 21:52 |
| SDuensin | 120 relays? Sounds like an old pinball machine. | 21:52 |
| @preaction | exactly! | 21:52 |
| @preaction | but nobody does pinball machines anymore, so the parts are tough to find. plus i have no clue what i'm doing or if this is even how i'm supposed to do it | 21:52 |
| @preaction | the little switches i was going to use? $3 a piece | 21:53 |
| @preaction | making the token into the switch saves a lot | 21:53 |
| SDuensin | Never heard of solid-state? :-P | 21:54 |
| @preaction | the solid-state relays i was looking at were like $3 each | 21:54 |
| @preaction | i found some latching DPDT relays for 0.40 a piece, but i don't need double-throw, unless the other throw i just leave open | 21:54 |
| @preaction | but again, i don't know where to look even | 21:55 |
| @preaction | in theory, i could eventually use a DPST latching relay, with a bipolar LED, to make something damn awesome | 21:56 |
| @preaction | i was also looking at using a demuxer and an Arduino to create an attract sequence | 21:56 |
| SDuensin | How big do you want this to be? What about something like this? http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKEMS3 | 21:56 |
| @preaction | the board itself is about 24" x 32" | 21:56 |
| @preaction | i wanted to be an EE in a previous life, so I could make pinball machines believe it or not ;) | 21:57 |
| SDuensin | Yea, and I studied to write text adventures. :-P (Really!) | 21:57 |
| @preaction | nice, liked Planetfall? | 21:57 |
| SDuensin | Yup. Still dabble with it. | 21:57 |
| @preaction | hm... makershed.com is slow | 21:59 |
| @preaction | ah there we go | 21:59 |
| SDuensin | It's slow because all the cool kids are there. :-) | 21:59 |
| @preaction | hmm... and instead of LEDs i put wires to the LEDs mounted in the board... | 22:00 |
| SDuensin | Even better - 9x14 http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKJR3 | 22:00 |
| @preaction | and with 625 possibilities, i could use bipolar | 22:00 |
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| SDuensin | Go hand-held. http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKEMS5 | 22:03 |
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| SquOnk | Geetings. | 22:27 |
| @preaction | good afternoon | 22:30 |
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| @preaction | http://headjs.com/ <--- oooh pretty | 23:19 |
| +perlDreamer | Every time I read "Fork me on Github", I hear this strange in my head, "Rock me Amadeus" | 23:21 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Dec 01 00:00:12 2010 | ||
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