| --- Log opened Fri Jun 01 00:00:46 2012 | ||
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| chsanch | Hi | 11:22 |
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| MarkLeightonFish | What's the general feeling about WebGUI logging security exceptions separately -- for example, invalid credentials during a log-in? For me, this would make tracking security problems a little easier. | 19:05 |
| @scrottie | I suspect that most people are too lazy or busy to follow the one log that WebGUI writes. adding more logs would make the problem worse. | 19:20 |
| MarkLeightonFish | Hmmm... Off-hand, I can't think of a way to get along with 0 (zero) logs. | 19:21 |
| @scrottie | I suggest adding support for it so that people who want it can have it. | 19:21 |
| @scrottie | oh, I can >=) | 19:22 |
| sbaur | Mark, I don't like the idea of multiple logs. OTOH, being able to see that info in the GUI could be useful for troubleshooting login problems | 19:22 |
| @scrottie | and I've done it in the past. | 19:22 |
| @scrottie | I've hooked up $SIG{__DIE__} to email me. | 19:22 |
| @scrottie | WebGUI has to work equally well for small sites and large sites. | 19:22 |
| @scrottie | that means easy setup (ha! long way to go on that one... don't know if you've seen the discussion the past week or two here) | 19:23 |
| @scrottie | but heavily customizable too | 19:23 |
| sbaur | Looks like it's WARN level right now. On my big sites I only have ERRORs going to the log, so I never even see these messages there | 19:23 |
| @scrottie | the same requirements carry over to the log. default should be quick and easy for small sites, but configurable for large sites. | 19:23 |
| @scrottie | if you wanted to, you could add some meta-data to every call to $session->log call, so that it besides passing severity, it passes a sort of type of problem. then get rid of $log->security in favor of using that. | 19:24 |
| @scrottie | you could tag all calls to the logger as being security related, content related, resource/performance related, etc, etc | 19:25 |
| @scrottie | maybe even use a bitmask. | 19:25 |
| @scrottie | if you do that, I suggest doing it to do wG8, though. | 19:25 |
| MarkLeightonFish | I'd thought that wG7 and wG8 get merged from time to time, so any fixes to wG7 will (eventually) make their way to wG8 (at least for the code that wasn't totally rewritten for wG8). | 19:27 |
| @scrottie | that's the other way to do it. | 19:28 |
| @scrottie | afk a bit. | 19:28 |
| MarkLeightonFish | I like the metadata idea -- it seems more DRY-like to me (including the "one log" => "DRY" correspondence). | 19:30 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Jun 02 2012 | ||
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| elnino | who do I contact about obtaining a back up of my sites at plainblack? | 01:23 |
| @scrottie | hrm! | 01:29 |
| @scrottie | dunno! what contact did they already give you? | 01:30 |
| @scrottie | I vaguely recall a ticket tracker somewhere. | 01:30 |
| @scrottie | I could pass a message along if the usual channels aren't getting the job done or can't or won't. | 01:33 |
| sbaur | elnino, make a private request on the online support forum | 01:33 |
| elnino | ah. I found automat. If that's that forum you are referring to, it's "blank" | 01:37 |
| elnino | s/blank/a blank page. | 01:37 |
| sbaur | i was referring to https://www.plainblack.com/plain_black_support/ | 01:38 |
| sbaur | but it's only for those who pay for support | 01:38 |
| sbaur | but if you have servers with PB, you should have access | 01:38 |
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| specsmu | hi, so I'm trying to upgrade from 7.7.33 to 7.8.0. Turns out there's no upgrade path from anything later than 7.7.20 to 7.8.0. How do I get past this? | 02:14 |
| sbaur | don't go to 7.8.0 | 02:16 |
| sbaur | there should be an upgrade to the last of the 7.8s | 02:16 |
| specsmu | let me look | 02:16 |
| sbaur | 7.8.24 | 02:17 |
| sbaur | check that one | 02:17 |
| specsmu | checking now | 02:17 |
| sbaur | but, you'll have to go to 7.7.33 first | 02:17 |
| specsmu | already there | 02:17 |
| specsmu | oh whw. there it is. ok, going to give it a try... | 02:18 |
| sbaur | sorry, I looked back and saw the 7.7.20, didn't read the whole message | 02:18 |
| sbaur | it's easiest to upgrade from stop version to stop version | 02:18 |
| specsmu | yeah, that was just a little counterintuitive | 02:18 |
| * sbaur nods | 02:18 | |
| specsmu | I was taking the gotchas literally | 02:19 |
| sbaur | i haven't read those... I'm still in the 7.5 and 7.6 era | 02:19 |
| specsmu | I got here from like 6.something | 02:19 |
| specsmu | THAT was painful. | 02:19 |
| sbaur | we started on 5, and I completely agree that 6 -> 7 was nasty, bad, painful, OMG | 02:20 |
| specsmu | it was partly the JSON stuff | 02:20 |
| specsmu | I had to hack every single config | 02:20 |
| specsmu | er, more accurately, quite a few .pm files | 02:21 |
| CIA-77 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.10 * r8370cb1 / sbin/spectre.pl : Prevent a bunch of warnings about workflows that have not yet been run when getting the status report from Spectre. - http://git.io/aFYcWg | 02:22 |
| specsmu | well, at least this is going smoothly so far knock on polyproply styrene | 02:22 |
| sbaur | good luck and have a great weekend. I'm outta here | 02:26 |
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| specsmu | that fixed it, thanks | 03:35 |
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| chsanch | Hi. | 20:50 |
| chsanch | Im just looking in the documentation which are the best practices to get a multilingual site, but I can't find it or I'm looking in the wrong place | 20:51 |
| @scrottie | hey chsanch | 20:52 |
| chsanch | How is the best/easy way to get a site with english and spanish content with the same structure? | 20:52 |
| chsanch | hey scrottie | 20:53 |
| @scrottie | my knowledge is limited in this department, but most of WebGUI does for i18n is let people pick a preferred language in their profile settings | 20:53 |
| @scrottie | then the core WebGUI stuff uses that setting via an i18n system to use the correct translation of messages | 20:53 |
| @scrottie | if you build on to wG, you have to keep doing the i18n stuff | 20:53 |
| @scrottie | I don't think think there is anything in place for automatically doing GeoIP, but I could be wrong. I suggest searching the forums for "geoip". If you find anything interesting but not sure what it means, show it to me and I'll try to figure it out. | 20:54 |
| chsanch | Ok, this i've tried and works well, but for example, how I can "mark" and article or new to be spanish or english content? | 20:54 |
| @scrottie | it tends to be the the way that, at some point, someone did any given thing, but most of this stuff isn't actually in core. | 20:55 |
| @scrottie | hrm. nothing comes to mind for that =( | 20:55 |
| chsanch | Yes, the i18n works really well | 20:55 |
| @scrottie | one large site PlainBlack has worked on has "communities" that map to regions that map to languages, and there's a search system that brings things up. | 20:55 |
| @scrottie | that's custom built stuff. it's not tracky or hard, but they had to build it. | 20:56 |
| chsanch | Hmm, ok, this is what I'm looking for, because we need to serve the same content in spanish and english, for example the "About Us" page must be in English and Spanish | 20:57 |
| @scrottie | how good is your Perl? | 20:58 |
| chsanch | Hope is good enough ;) | 20:58 |
| chsanch | I was thinking in create some module or macro to do that, but I don't know where to start | 20:59 |
| @scrottie | macros are easy. | 20:59 |
| @scrottie | and that sort of thing, I can always help with. | 20:59 |
| @scrottie | the problem is that I'm weak with the CMS side of WebGUI, but strong on the code/customization side. | 21:00 |
| @scrottie | I kind of take it for granted that when people ask me to write code for it, that there isn't a good way to do that just using the CMS side. | 21:00 |
| @scrottie | it's Sunday mid-day in the US right now. in +10 hours, more US people will be on the channel. if you're around then, it is probably worth asking for a second opinion from them on anything I tell you. | 21:01 |
| @scrottie | modifying the AssetProxy macro seems like one option. | 21:01 |
| @scrottie | then it could proxy in content from one of several other assets depending on the user's language settings. | 21:01 |
| chsanch | Ok, I was thinking if there is a chance to create o get a macro/module which provides something like a translate content module, so in that way when you create an article you can write the content in english and in spanish | 21:01 |
| @scrottie | yeah. | 21:02 |
| @scrottie | if you copied and modified the AssetProxy macro, it would be general. it would work for any Asset type. | 21:02 |
| @scrottie | but it would be kind of clunky, since it would force you to make, for example, home/about-us-en and home/about-us-es | 21:02 |
| @scrottie | it wouldn't help you organize all of the assets involved | 21:03 |
| chsanch | I was thinking something like: mysite.com/about-us - mysite.com/es/about-us | 21:03 |
| @scrottie | but if you modified the Article Asset, for example, it could have -en and -es versions built in. that seems like more work, unless you're really building for the long run. | 21:03 |
| chsanch | hmm ok, I'll we check this tomorrow morning at the office | 21:04 |
| chsanch | we really like WebGUI, but we miss this feature | 21:04 |
| @scrottie | =) | 21:05 |
| @scrottie | well, I'm always glad to help people customize WebGUI. | 21:06 |
| chsanch | Thanks | 21:06 |
| @scrottie | sure thing. talk to you tomorrow, then. | 21:06 |
| chsanch | Ok, thank you. Enjoy your sunday, mine's almost finished :( | 21:09 |
| @scrottie | ieee! thanks. yeah. Sundays always feel like the day of reconing for me. | 21:12 |
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| @scrottie | wheeee!! | 18:58 |
| sbaur | why are you wheeing? | 19:08 |
| @scrottie | you're right. after a moment of reflection, I have no cause for joy. | 19:11 |
| * scrottie mopes. | 19:11 | |
| sbaur | I was only curious, not trying to suppress your whee. :-( | 19:12 |
| @scrottie | I know, I'm being silly. | 19:12 |
| @scrottie | got up early and worked out so I feel like I have a jump on the day, even though I'm in a bit later than I have been and am more than likely going to be groggy because of it. | 19:13 |
| @scrottie | at least it felt good. | 19:13 |
| sbaur | good for you! | 19:13 |
| @scrottie | also, a major project is coming to the close of one phase, which is both good and bad. | 19:13 |
| @scrottie | that renews optimism that I can do things like work on progressive improvements to the core. | 19:14 |
| sbaur | finishing big things is always great. starting them is always scary, and prone to interrupt-itis | 19:14 |
| @scrottie | also also, I ordered a new GPS to replace my aging Garmin eTrex Legend, which is legendary in its inability to pick up a signal and only has 8 megs of flash for maps. | 19:15 |
| @scrottie | yeah. | 19:15 |
| * scrottie has the direction sense of a drunken earthworm | 19:16 | |
| @scrottie | I can usually get "up" and "down" right. anything beyond that is a crapshoot. | 19:26 |
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| CIA-77 | webgui: Arjan Widlak webgui-7.10 * r7ab4726 / (3 files in 3 dirs): - fixed #12365: editing a metadata category may cause a fatal error - http://git.io/JeD4UQ | 13:36 |
| CIA-77 | webgui: Arjan Widlak webgui-7.10 * r5dfe488 / lib/WebGUI/AssetMetaData.pm : typo in pod - http://git.io/5wXF9w | 13:42 |
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| CIA-77 | webgui: Arjan Widlak webgui-7.10 * r2cb7c5b / t/Asset/AssetMetaData.t : Correction on test introduced in fix of bug 12365 commit 7ab47266003 - http://git.io/kWu9OA | 16:05 |
| pskept | is it possible to make the carousel asset display more than 1 item at a time? | 17:08 |
| @scrottie | pskept, without modifying the code? | 17:35 |
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| pskept | yeah.... i don't want to go that far with it. i've already decided i can't and to just implement it with the libraries the designer used. | 17:36 |
| pskept | this has been the first thing that i haven't been able to wrangle a webgui asset into a proper implementation without using the crapolla the designer used though so i'm pretty happy about that. | 17:37 |
| @scrottie | it looks like the Carousel sets a template variable named 'items' of all of the items in it in JSON | 17:39 |
| @scrottie | and then the template for it pulls in all of the JS | 17:39 |
| @scrottie | so you shouldn't have to touch Perl to modify the thing, only the JS | 17:40 |
| @scrottie | if you can find the docs for the YUI Carousel (which is what this uses), it should have the configuration options for making it do multiple items | 17:41 |
| @scrottie | template is CarouselTmpl0000000001 | 17:41 |
| @scrottie | aka root/import/carousel/carousel-default | 17:41 |
| @scrottie | oh, duh | 17:41 |
| @scrottie | numVisible: 1, | 17:41 |
| @scrottie | you might try changing that line in that template to something other than, you know, 1 | 17:41 |
| @scrottie | (duh'ing at myself) | 17:43 |
| @scrottie | or you could use the designer's stuff entirely and throw away everything in that template (make a copy of the template and completely change it) and just use the asset to manage the items to be displayed | 17:45 |
| pskept | scrottie: thanks for all the info. i'll start looking into this now. | 17:47 |
| vanjwilson1 | I have an interesting problem with one of our clients: their WRE apache is segfaulting, and that manifests itself as a heavy load on the server. The hosting company techs (Storm/Liquid Web) say I need to recompile/reinstall my custom apache. I'm running 2.2.17 (not sure which wre package). Could it have become corrupted, or could something else be causing this? | 17:50 |
| @scrottie | pskept, sure thing. | 17:50 |
| @scrottie | vanjwilson1, you're running the WRE but have a custom Apache and mod_perl built and installed into the wre directory (built with prefix=/data/wre/prereqs) ? | 17:52 |
| vanjwilson1 | @pskept, I missed the beginning of your discussion, but I have had lot of good experiences with the jQuery Cycle plugin for image carousels on WebGUI sites | 17:52 |
| @scrottie | it's highly unlikely that apache+mod_perl would have become corrupted and need to be re-installed. | 17:53 |
| vanjwilson1 | No, they are calling the WRE a "custom" build of Apache because it's not the one that came with the system (CentOS 5.7 64-bit) | 17:54 |
| @scrottie | huh. I did a six month contract at Liquid Web before PlainBlack hired me. | 17:55 |
| vanjwilson1 | @scrottie, that's what I thought, (and I'd rather have my wisdom teeth pulled) but have you ever heard of that behavior on a WebGUI install? | 17:56 |
| vanjwilson1 | Small world | 17:56 |
| @scrottie | I've seen Apache crash for a lot of reasons. | 17:56 |
| @scrottie | what does the top of /data/wre/docs/changelog.txt say? | 17:57 |
| @scrottie | that should indicate the version. | 17:57 |
| @scrottie | I don't know of a wre release that had a problem with coredumping. | 17:57 |
| @scrottie | it may be some 32 bit/64 bit unhappiness. I don't have a lot of experience there. all of my stuff is still 32 bit. | 17:58 |
| @scrottie | one dev server is 64 bit hosting a 32 bit WRE (which is probably your situation, it sounds like) and there is no instability, but sometimes it is extremely difficult to build a perl module. | 17:58 |
| @scrottie | in that environment. | 17:58 |
| vanjwilson1 | wow, as I'm talking, the server "load" in the control panel jumped from 3 to 20, and http is no longer responding. Third weekday that this has happened, always late morning around 11am EDT, something is rotten in Denmark | 18:02 |
| @scrottie | I wish I knew how they reached that conclusion. I don't know if they are actually aware of a known problem and identified it, or if they just told you that assuming that if you ran all of the vender (CentOS) stuff, you wouldn't have that problem. | 18:02 |
| @scrottie | heh | 18:02 |
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| @scrottie | rebuilding things is an option, but you'd probably want to wind up with a 64 bit build rather than a 32 bit one. | 18:03 |
| vanjwilson1 | btw, the wre is version 0.9.4 | 18:03 |
| @scrottie | you'd have to dump (then later undump) your database. | 18:03 |
| @scrottie | do a `dmesg` on that machine and paste the end of it into gist.github.com? | 18:06 |
| @scrottie | might have something obvious about the problem in there. | 18:06 |
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| vanjwilson1 | the techs found a line like this about every half hour in /var/log/messages during the duration of the "problem": | 18:06 |
| vanjwilson1 | Jun 4 11:26:16 storm kernel: httpd[16559]: segfault at 0000000000000062 rip | 18:06 |
| vanjwilson1 | 00002ae022151cc2 rsp 00007fffe9543088 error 4 Jun 4 11:47:38 storm kernel: | 18:06 |
| vanjwilson1 | httpd[18100]: segfault at 0000000000000062 rip 00002ada4de5ccc2 rsp | 18:06 |
| vanjwilson1 | 00007fffe1747ef8 error 4 Jun 4 11:52:52 storm kernel: httpd[18939]: segfault | 18:06 |
| vanjwilson1 | at 0000000000000062 rip 00002b11f7af9cc2 rsp 00007fff8ab79c08 error 4 Jun 4 | 18:06 |
| @scrottie | mornin', Mark | 18:06 |
| @scrottie | okay, that confirms what we know. | 18:07 |
| @scrottie | I'd have to attach a gdb to an httpd and wait for it to derail to learn more. | 18:07 |
| @scrottie | vanjwilson1, you could try cloning https://github.com/plainblack/wrebuild and building that on that virtual machine (again, dumping and undumping the database). you could try moving your /data/wre and /data/WebGUI to a 32 bit virtual machine. um... nothing else comes to mind. | 18:08 |
| vanjwilson1 | they have about a dozen sites, so I'd really like to exhaust my other troubleshooting before I go down the rebuild route | 18:10 |
| @scrottie | if you can bring me a stack trace from a gdb attached to an httpd, I'd be happy to look at that. that should offer a clue as to what is going wrong. | 18:10 |
| @scrottie | even if we knew what was going wrong, if it involves rebuilding software, it will be hard to fix. | 18:11 |
| @scrottie | the wre builds for 32 bit easily on a 32 bit machine, but on a 64 bit machine, it's going to default to building for 64 bit, and perl, mod_perl and apache all have to build together and get linked together to get mod_perl going | 18:12 |
| @scrottie | and if the wre has to be entirely 32 bit or entirely 64 bit | 18:12 |
| pskept | scrottie: yay! thanks so much. it works as i want it to. | 18:12 |
| @scrottie | pskept, awesome! and way easier fix than I would have guessed. | 18:12 |
| pskept | yes, very easy. | 18:13 |
| @scrottie | vanjwilson1, another option would be to do the "source install" and use CentOS provided perl, modperl, apache and mysql. | 18:13 |
| ckotil_ | I wanted to get inline edits for keywords on articles and layout assets. here's how it is implemented now. http://pastebin.ca/2158453 thoughts? | 18:19 |
| @scrottie | ckotil_, I know almost nothing about how keywords are used right now. I spend so very little time with the wG UI and so much with its internals... | 18:24 |
| @scrottie | the best way to get more people to see your owrk is to fork webgui on github, push your changes there, and then send a pull request. I can help you with that. | 18:25 |
| @scrottie | re: <input type="textarea" name="keywords" value="<tmpl_var keywords>" ... generally, the .pm responsible for an asset creates an instance of some WebGUI::Form subclass, such as WebGUI::Form::Text, and adds that to the list of template vars, rather than putting HTML form stuff in the template directly. it's an... interesting... design decision, but people will probably want to see consistency on that. | 18:27 |
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| @scrottie | also, you have the keywords as a different form from the asset's edit form. wouldn't it make more sense to have them part of the existing edit form, so people could change whichever fields they like then submit them all together at once? and is there really not a field for editing keywords in the existing edit form? or am I missing the point? | 18:28 |
| ckotil_ | heh | 18:28 |
| ckotil_ | no the point was to add the ability to edit keywords inline wiht the page | 18:29 |
| ckotil_ | so eventually i would like to try to make it asynchronous | 18:29 |
| ckotil_ | bc right now everyone overlooks them bc they are buried deep in the edit> metadata page | 18:29 |
| @scrottie | I don't understand what you mean by inline | 18:30 |
| ckotil_ | inline. so you dont have to go to the edit page | 18:30 |
| @scrottie | ah, hrm. | 18:30 |
| ckotil_ | so i wasn't really planning on merging this into the core | 18:30 |
| @scrottie | one of the things preaction was working on before he left, and was pretty far along too, was a generic JSON API for updating assets | 18:30 |
| ckotil_ | bc noone would want it | 18:30 |
| ckotil_ | or, rather, i'd get flac for it, bc it's not hte webgui way ;) | 18:31 |
| @scrottie | I'd suggest dusting that code off, fixing it up, and making it work. then that could be done entirely with JS/AJAX in the asset templates. | 18:31 |
| @scrottie | ah, I misunderstood your quest. thought you were proposing a feature. | 18:31 |
| @scrottie | request. | 18:31 |
| ckotil_ | 'tis a quest | 18:31 |
| @scrottie | heh | 18:32 |
| ckotil_ | yeah, im going to try to get it done JS/AJAX | 18:32 |
| @scrottie | doing AJAX in wG should amount to setting the right content type in response and decoding/encoding data with from_json and to_json. pretty simple. I can dig up an example if you like. when you're ready. | 18:33 |
| @scrottie | if it works now, then awesome! | 18:33 |
| ckotil_ | i would like that :) | 18:33 |
| @scrottie | I added a macro for creating Form objects inline in templates. | 18:33 |
| ckotil_ | yeah, what i have works now. | 18:33 |
| @scrottie | by the way. just in case it's handy. | 18:33 |
| ckotil_ | cool | 18:33 |
| @scrottie | not really cool but sometimes actually useful =P mostly useful for when you have custom Form objects defined. one site has a country picker, for example. nice not to have to cut and paste that. | 18:34 |
| ckotil_ | ya rly | 18:34 |
| ckotil_ | all this inline editing and making things like keywords visible inline with the page stems from my users forgetting hwere in the edit page things are at, and not liking all the clicking they have to do with webgui (i.e. lazy) | 18:35 |
| @scrottie | preaction's JSON API would be really useful for that. | 18:36 |
| ckotil_ | I'm going to step out for a few. Meeting the wife for lunch. bbiab | 18:36 |
| ckotil_ | I can't wait to see it. | 18:36 |
| @scrottie | later ckotil_ | 18:36 |
| @scrottie | $session->http->setMimeType("application/json"); | 18:37 |
| @scrottie | return to_json($ajaxResponse); | 18:37 |
| @scrottie | using the JSON module. that's it. | 18:37 |
| @scrottie | just that in a www_ method to return JSON. if you aren't return ing JSON, then you don't need the setMimeType, just a from_json() call on whichever form param contains JSON. | 18:38 |
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| ckotil_ | back | 20:06 |
| ckotil_ | ok ill give that a shot | 20:06 |
| ckotil_ | I dont have a full understanding how it will work, but maybe ill find out more when i have that in my www_ function | 20:06 |
| ckotil_ | from_json seems to work, but on my form action im still calling ?func=setKeywords so the page is reloading. i.e. not asynchronous | 20:25 |
| ckotil_ | how should I be calling that method? | 20:25 |
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| @scrottie | the two lines I pasted are only the JSON bit | 20:28 |
| @scrottie | passing JavaScript datastructures back and forth. | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | AJAX is another topic. you have to use JS to do an async request on that method. | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | I don't know of a good tutorial or I'd point you at it, but maybe someone else does. jquery, the JS library, has a method built in for doing async (AJAX) requests that smoothes over cross browser portability problems and gets rid of a lot of the biolerplate | 20:30 |
| ckotil_ | oh ok. i think i know where to look. just needed someone to point it out ;) thanks | 20:31 |
| @scrottie | sure thing! | 20:34 |
| @scrottie | incidentally, async requests don't have to post JSON data. they can post normal strings as POST data. | 20:35 |
| @scrottie | it's just that posting JSON async was happening often enough that it got its own name... AJAX. | 20:36 |
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| pskept | i believe that i read webgui started as an intranet portal. is that correct? | 20:49 |
| pskept | err used to create intranet portals is perhaps a better description. | 20:50 |
| pskept | is so, i am wondering if the dashboard assest is the most appropriate to use for that scenario. it seems to me that it would be. | 20:51 |
| @scrottie | I'm not clear on what an Internet portal is. | 21:16 |
| @scrottie | JT would have to answer that one, but the way I heard the story, it just started as a dynamic site that a client could post information on and re-order the info on it. Originally, it only had what were essentially Articles. | 21:17 |
| ckotil_ | I've played with the dashboard asset briefly, and never found it very useful right out of the box. But it lets you drag and drop assets around for a customized experience. | 21:21 |
| ckotil_ | But the problem is , that the default assets don't do much. | 21:22 |
| ckotil_ | one neat thing is that you can add assets to be available for the dashboard, and add content to those assets .then users can choose which they would like to see in their dashboard. | 21:23 |
| ckotil_ | heh, just found an old post about handling ajax calls from macros | 21:47 |
| @scrottie | handling the call from a macro? that sounds error prone. the page you're posting to would have to have the macro on it somewhere. that's sort of a complicated, non-obvious dispatch route. | 21:52 |
| ckotil_ | yeah, there wasn't too much techincal detail in that post.. | 21:56 |
| ckotil_ | but a whole lot of JT laying the smack down | 21:56 |
| @scrottie | heh | 22:01 |
| @scrottie | watching YAPC unfold has been interesting. | 22:01 |
| ckotil_ | are you guys sponsoring? | 22:09 |
| ckotil_ | OB | 22:09 |
| ckotil_ | PB* | 22:09 |
| @scrottie | yup! | 22:12 |
| ckotil_ | cool | 22:12 |
| @scrottie | Madison.PM is putting it on. | 22:12 |
| @scrottie | JT is involved. | 22:12 |
| @scrottie | that's made for some interesting traffic on the YAPC mailing list. | 22:13 |
| ckotil_ | heh | 22:13 |
| ckotil_ | we're mostly a perl shop, but i can't recall anyone ever going to a perl conference | 22:14 |
| ckotil_ | i plugged it anyway | 22:14 |
| ckotil_ | we do however travel to R&E networking conferences a lot | 22:14 |
| ckotil_ | pretty sure there was one in Madison not long ago for Internet2 | 22:14 |
| @scrottie | that's a shame. you should go! | 22:16 |
| @scrottie | you meet the most interesting people at YAPCs. | 22:17 |
| ckotil_ | I'd have to express a lot of interest, and even then there are actual software team members who are more suited to go. Im just a systems guy | 22:18 |
| ckotil_ | but I still get to hack webgui :) | 22:18 |
| @scrottie | "more suited"? bah. | 22:18 |
| @scrottie | people don't go to conferences like YAPC and come back with a stash of industry knowledge they can magically spread around their company like some kind of industry knowledge faerie. they go to YAPC and they drink beer and geek out. | 22:19 |
| @scrottie | everyone deserves beer and geek-outs. | 22:19 |
| ckotil_ | that's true | 22:21 |
| ckotil_ | we do that on a small scale here. once every few months. not nearly enough | 22:21 |
| ckotil_ | and not nearly enough beer | 22:22 |
| ckotil_ | everyone's too shy | 22:22 |
| @scrottie | a company happy hour is good but if that's all you do, it's too insular. you have to go drink with the entire perl community. 'tis required. | 22:32 |
| ckotil_ | yeah. sounds fun. | 22:34 |
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| vanjwilson | @scrottie, I have a new clue to my crashing webserver: found this in the modperl.error.log innumerable times: | 22:43 |
| vanjwilson | DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'www_masslegalhelp_org.user_accesslevels' doesn't exist at /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/SQL/ResultSet.pm line 316. | 22:44 |
| pskept | by intarnet portal i meant: a location where employees of an organization can login to do any number of employee related tasks such as view forms, view paychecks, change employee information | 22:45 |
| @scrottie | vanjwilson, that shouldn't cause a coredump. but it may be part of a chain of events that is. | 22:46 |
| @scrottie | pskept, ah. I missed the "intranet" bit the first time. right. | 22:46 |
| @scrottie | don't know what the original wG was *for*. could well have been! | 22:46 |
| pskept | cool no big deal. | 22:46 |
| ckotil_ | pskept: using the dashboard or not, either will require a lot of work. | 22:47 |
| pskept | agreed ckotil_ just came from a meeting discussing this. i've got some direction and a lot of ideas now. | 22:48 |
| ckotil_ | personally I would avoid the dashboard, and just leverage templates, and macro's. maybe even custom assets if you're up to it | 22:48 |
| ckotil_ | we've done up some custom apps using just templates and macro's. they work. | 22:48 |
| ckotil_ | Id like to see some of our apps done as assets. but we've neevr done that, and it would be a big undertaking for us | 22:49 |
| @scrottie | it really isn't bad at all. | 22:53 |
| @scrottie | use WebGUI::AssetAspect::Installable. that automates creating the tables for the thing. | 22:54 |
| @scrottie | from the definition. | 22:54 |
| @scrottie | then it's mostly a matter of correctly customizing the definition and getting the controls/fields you want in there. | 22:54 |
| @scrottie | then it's an asset and you can start adding whatever other logic and www_ methods you want to it. | 22:54 |
| @scrottie | as always, I'm happy to take a look at code if I'm not up to my eyeballs in something else. | 22:56 |
| ckotil_ | interesting. ill have to try that sometime | 22:59 |
| pskept | ckotil_: i think your suggested approach sounds like a good one. the dashboard could be used to bring all this together but should hardly be viewed as a silver bullet as i was hoping it might be. | 23:13 |
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| elnino | in the event manager, I'm still getting a list of tickets that have already transpired. How to I make these not display? | 23:22 |
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| ckotil_ | pskept: that sounds about right. | 23:25 |
| @scrottie | probably modify www_getTicketsAsJson so that it checks the date. | 23:34 |
| elnino | ckotil_ scrottie, is this somethign that is fixed in a later version? | 23:40 |
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| @scrottie | nope. only reference to $ticket->get('startDate') is fetching the value for display. | 23:52 |
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| @scrottie | inserting this at the correct point should do it: next if $ticket->get('startDate') < time; | 23:55 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jun 06 2012 | ||
| elnino | Ok. Unfortunately I don't ahve access to the code. sigh. | 00:06 |
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| @scrottie | "put her in the solution" | 19:37 |
| @scrottie | not sure if this is a business meeting or a mob meeting | 19:37 |
| sbaur | scrottie, are you typing in the window you think you're typing in? | 19:38 |
| @scrottie | nope. thought I was in #perl. but anyway, I'm in a coffee shop. this is not a PlainBlack meeting I'm eavesdropping on. | 19:39 |
| @scrottie | I repeat: PlainBlack does *not* make it a business practise to off people who don't pay kickbacks. | 19:39 |
| @scrottie | also, PB meetings aren't buzzword complaint. | 19:40 |
| pskept | that is all good to know | 19:40 |
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| ckotil_ | scrottie: any idea why im getting this error on my AJAX request? http://pastebin.ca/2158811 | 21:35 |
| ckotil_ | it works, but i see this error. it says I can supress it, but I just don't understand it | 21:35 |
| @scrottie | ckotil_, that's a JSON thing | 21:37 |
| @scrottie | the JSON module is giving you that error | 21:37 |
| ckotil_ | should i be concerned? | 21:37 |
| @scrottie | JSON is JavaScript Object Notation | 21:37 |
| @scrottie | yup. | 21:38 |
| @scrottie | 1 (for example) doesn't pass as an object | 21:38 |
| ckotil_ | ok so in my JS i need to tell it to allow_nonref , somhow | 21:38 |
| @scrottie | but arrays and hashes in JS do pass as objects | 21:38 |
| @scrottie | you could do that. | 21:38 |
| ckotil_ | alternatively i could create an object? | 21:38 |
| @scrottie | what's usually done is data structures are returned... hashs of arrays or hashes of hashes or the like | 21:38 |
| ckotil_ | ah ok | 21:39 |
| @scrottie | JSON::to_json( { foo => 1, error => 0, this => 'that' } ) | 21:39 |
| @scrottie | that makes the stuff you return more extensible | 21:39 |
| @scrottie | you can keep adding fields to it as you need | 21:39 |
| ckotil_ | that makes sense | 21:39 |
| @scrottie | you also don't have to use JSON to do async requests. you could set the response type to text/plain and return the string "1" | 21:39 |
| @scrottie | without even an \n on the end of it | 21:40 |
| ckotil_ | Ok maybe i can figure in jqeury how to not use JSON | 21:41 |
| ckotil_ | or figure out how to use JSON properly :) | 21:42 |
| ckotil_ | i just followed a generic guide to get to this point | 21:42 |
| ckotil_ | and it flippin works! | 21:42 |
| ckotil_ | just not clean yet | 21:42 |
| @scrottie | well, you're not using JSON right now for the data you're sending up to the server | 21:44 |
| @scrottie | and you're failing to use it for data coming back from the server, which this code doesn't seem to be using yet anyway | 21:44 |
| ckotil_ | ok, so i should create a JSON object, rather than just a string to send back | 21:44 |
| ckotil_ | or to send to the www method | 21:45 |
| @scrottie | entirely up to you. if you're just sending a string or two up, JSON doesn't buy you much. if you're just returning one string, JSON doesn't buy you much. any more structured data, and JSON is helpful. | 21:46 |
| @scrottie | data: { name: "John", location: "Boston" } | 21:46 |
| @scrottie | from http://api.jquery.com/jQuery.ajax/ | 21:46 |
| @scrottie | if you did that in $.ajax({ ... }) call rather than sending up a string, then it's an AJAX request. | 21:47 |
| @scrottie | the AJAX response depends on the content/type and returning the output of JSON::to_json() running on a Perl hash. | 21:47 |
| ckotil_ | gotcha | 21:48 |
| @scrottie | eg, you may decide you want to send JSON up if the user has a whiz-bang JS UI for adding form elements to a form and typing individual keywords into each text input, and you have to loop over all of those text inputs and build an array of keywords | 21:48 |
| ckotil_ | perl hash to JSON::to_json returns a JSON ojbect | 21:48 |
| @scrottie | right | 21:48 |
| @scrottie | and that hash can contain arrays and simple scalar values and so on and so forth. but it's encapsulated in a hash. | 21:49 |
| @scrottie | perl objects don't map to JavaScript objects via JSON last I heard though. | 21:49 |
| @scrottie | otherwise you could return to_json( { asset => $self } ) ;) | 21:49 |
| @scrottie | but I'm just babbling about technical goo. the async request was the bit you really wanted and that does seem to be right. | 21:51 |
| ckotil_ | good eal | 21:52 |
| ckotil_ | deal | 21:52 |
| ckotil_ | thanks | 21:52 |
| ckotil_ | now to figure out a good way to templatize it | 21:53 |
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| elnino | hi! | 04:59 |
| elnino | I'm havinga problem with a crashed assetIndex. | 04:59 |
| elnino | I've been doing | 04:59 |
| elnino | myisamchk -r, and it says it "fixes it" but mysqldump still fails with the same error. | 04:59 |
| elnino | anyone experienced with crashed tables? | 05:00 |
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| @scrottie | yes, elnino. | 05:32 |
| @scrottie | so need a mesg bot | 05:32 |
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| ckotil_ | scrottie: http://pastebin.ca/2159035 got it going. it scales too, so easy to template. | 18:17 |
| @scrottie | ckotil_++ | 18:35 |
| ckotil_ | im going to look at what's in the bazaar to see if i can do this without hacking Asset.pm | 18:36 |
| ckotil_ | hrm, not seeing this template done by Frank Dillon that PD pointed me at | 18:42 |
| ckotil_ | supposedly tried to move all the edit options to an inline view , based on ExtJS | 18:42 |
| @scrottie | neato! | 18:45 |
| @scrottie | never heard of that. | 18:45 |
| ckotil_ | Ill ask PD if he knows | 18:47 |
| ckotil_ | Id like to use this inline edit stuff to add a 'flag for review' field, and/or 'expired' that users can check and then a custom workflow would gather them all up every so often and notify the owners to update their documentation | 18:48 |
| CIA-77 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.10 * r6e88016 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Don't assume that users actually entered a URL to proxy in an HTTP Proxy asset. This would be reasonable. - http://git.io/kl-o6g | 19:41 |
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| pskept | i am wondering about deleting Root -> Home. is there any reason not to do this? will it be recreated on a reinstall like the default style templates and other things? | 19:55 |
| @scrottie | on re-install? or on upgrade? | 21:29 |
| @scrottie | why delete it? what are you trying to accomplish? | 21:30 |
| @scrottie | it has been done, and can be done, but you have to know what you're doing. | 21:49 |
| pskept | the only reason i guess is to prevent someone from accessing that location on our site somehow | 22:31 |
| pskept | since its unrelated to our organization | 22:31 |
| pskept | i meant on upgrade. sorry! | 22:32 |
| pskept | if it will cause even the slightest problem then i will leave it without hestitation. | 22:32 |
| @scrottie | I'd have to look at what was bundled with past upgrades to get an idea of how often they replace that, but it seems like that would just break peoples sites if they did. it *should* only be in the original install. | 22:52 |
| @scrottie | probably the safest thing to do is edit permissions on it so that people can't view it. | 22:52 |
| pskept | ah! great idea. thanks! | 23:13 |
| @scrottie | you betcha. | 23:57 |
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| CIA-77 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.10 * rffcee04 / lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm : Allow WebGUI::Fork's to be built for asset specific methods, and not only those found in WebGUI::Asset's namespace. - http://git.io/9QB_JQ | 18:44 |
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| ckotil | outside of a custom macro, is there anything that ships with webgui to display the date? specifically the year, for a copyright footer. | 20:46 |
| MarkLeightonFish | ckotil, have you looked at 'D_date' yet? | 20:49 |
| MarkLeightonFish | ('D_date' is a standard macro, if by 'custom macro' you mean something you had to write yourself.) | 20:49 |
| ckotil | i need DateTime->now to figure out hte year. | 20:56 |
| ckotil | i just wrote one. it was quick. | 20:57 |
| ckotil | web dev's no longer wanted to keep the copyright up to date ;) | 21:00 |
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| @scrottie | Oracle Dong Server II | 22:05 |
| xdanger | scrottie: You're familiar with the internals of webgui7? I changed the cache to CHI+FastMmap and the "required" fields of helpdesk stoped working. It returns the $errors from processPropertiesFromFormPost but it runs to a problem with the cache. Little stacktrace of it: http://pastebin.com/gj9dtDB1 | 22:15 |
| @scrottie | dammit, I did it again. wrong channel. that was meant for #perl. | 22:20 |
| * scrottie sighs | 22:20 | |
| @scrottie | I'm going to blame it on these slow network connections. they make me stupid. more so than usual. apologies for language. | 22:20 |
| @scrottie | let's see. | 22:22 |
| @scrottie | I have seen problems with CHI::FastMmap, but not fitting your description. sometimes, if it doesn't shut down cleanly, it may wind up corrupt and refuse to store anything. | 22:24 |
| @scrottie | and wgd reset --delcache won't fix it. that clears out the keys. or sometimes won't fix it. sometimes you have to rm the file. | 22:24 |
| @scrottie | so, not familiar with that problem. | 22:24 |
| @scrottie | message board it? perlDreamer does support on the hosted sites which use that config, so I think he does more battle with that than I do. | 22:25 |
| @scrottie | or bug report. | 22:27 |
| xdanger | I've had those problems with CHI before, I ended up just doing rm -Rf /tmp/WebGUIcache | 22:28 |
| @scrottie | xdanger, you had errors like in http://pastebin.com/gj9dtDB1 ? | 22:29 |
| @scrottie | er | 22:30 |
| @scrottie | yeah | 22:30 |
| xdanger | yeah, Well I added the stacktrace to the errorhandling, but yes | 22:30 |
| xdanger | I had to switch back to FileCache | 22:30 |
| xdanger | I was hunting that error down for many hours before I figured it wasn't my code, because it happend on helpdesk also | 22:31 |
| xdanger | So I'll file a bug report about it, does perlDreamer follow them? | 22:32 |
| @scrottie | yeah | 22:32 |
| @scrottie | that's one of his tasks | 22:32 |
| @scrottie | if you paste the link here, I'll follow it too | 22:33 |
| xdanger | Could you please upgrade your tinymce, the old version has some problems with my chrome. I've done it (and yui) on my sites without any problems | 22:37 |
| @scrottie | is your version a git checkout? | 22:38 |
| @scrottie | of WebGUI? | 22:38 |
| @scrottie | I'll talk to perlDreamer and try to do that if he doesn't have any failure cases with it that he's working on | 22:40 |
| @scrottie | he also does release engineering besides fielding bugs | 22:40 |
| @scrottie | I'm also out next week with YAPC | 22:41 |
| @scrottie | er, this week, I guess | 22:41 |
| xdanger | scrottie: I have a few more customizations, but I could try to do pull request about the javascript parts. (I haven't tested everything, since I don't use all the assets) | 22:43 |
| @scrottie | you should be able to do a git add/git commit just on the TinyMCE stuff and then send a pull request for just that commit. if you wanted to. | 22:43 |
| xdanger | yeah sure, I just have to see that it doesn't contain anything weird ;) | 22:44 |
| @scrottie | often what happens is upgrades are done on client sites to fix problems they report ("the old version has some problems with my chrome") and then if things don't break worse, it gets merged over into the mainline. | 22:44 |
| @scrottie | btw. | 22:44 |
| @scrottie | heh | 22:44 |
| @scrottie | well, don't commit everything, just stuff related to that ;0 | 22:45 |
| xdanger | Do you have any plans to upgrade to YUI3 or something else (jquery UI for example)? | 22:45 |
| @scrottie | no plans for 7 or 8 to move to only jquery based stuff, but jquery winds up getting used alongside YUI a lot | 22:46 |
| @scrottie | don't know if jquery is in the default wG7. probably not, it sounds like. | 22:47 |
| xdanger | It's not | 22:48 |
| xdanger | but I end up using it on almost every site =) | 22:48 |
| @scrottie | heh, ditto | 22:48 |
| xdanger | yey! tinymce totally fucked my ticket up... http://www.webgui.org/use/bugs/tracker/12366 | 22:49 |
| @scrottie | oh yeah. people keep telling me that it cuts off the text. | 22:49 |
| * scrottie sighs | 22:49 | |
| xdanger | and it handles paste very badly | 22:49 |
| @scrottie | xdanger, let's have a good, long talk about the state of WebGUI after YAPC. | 22:49 |
| @scrottie | I'm pretty distracted with YAPC right now (I have a talk) and I'm finishing up a project. | 22:49 |
| xdanger | sure | 22:49 |
| @scrottie | but hopefully afterwards I can catch up on some of this backlog of broken stuff. | 22:50 |
| xdanger | I'm entertaining the thought of removing yui, and replacing it with jquery + twitter bootstrap ;) | 22:50 |
| xdanger | and doing a little leaner version of webgui for my self | 22:51 |
| @scrottie | ugh, twitter | 22:51 |
| * scrottie cringes | 22:51 | |
| @scrottie | they make some really bad design choices, and twitter makes my computer slow | 22:51 |
| @scrottie | just having the website up makes things sluggish | 22:51 |
| @scrottie | if ($session->form->process('assetId') eq 'new') { | 22:52 |
| @scrottie | that's 3095 in my Asset.pm | 22:52 |
| @scrottie | if (ref $errors eq 'ARRAY') { | 22:52 |
| @scrottie | that's probably what you're referring to | 22:52 |
| @scrottie | I probably have debug goop in mine | 22:53 |
| xdanger | I could have some on mine also | 22:53 |
| xdanger | but that's what I'm referring to, yes | 22:54 |
| xdanger | twitter != twitter bootstrap | 22:54 |
| xdanger | bootstrap is quite nice actually | 22:54 |
| xdanger | but that's just my opinnion, I'm not an UI guy | 22:55 |
| @scrottie | that sounds like a major undertaking. | 22:55 |
| @scrottie | return $self->www_add() or return $self->www_edit() should run, if there are errors in processPropertiesFromFormPost | 22:56 |
| xdanger | It probably is, and I know you have lot of custom code for yui2 | 22:56 |
| xdanger | but I don't use most of webguis assets anyway | 22:56 |
| xdanger | so just replacing the admin console and some basic stuff will be enough for me =) | 22:57 |
| @scrottie | do you use twitter bootstrap for anything? | 22:57 |
| xdanger | yeah | 22:57 |
| xdanger | here's one: http://luovapaja.fi/ | 22:57 |
| @scrottie | would you consider writing a blog post about how you did that, and showing off some code? | 23:01 |
| xdanger | I could put the package to bazaar also | 23:02 |
| xdanger | But I't not finished, I have to a little more with the Page Layout templates | 23:03 |
| xdanger | I was thinking about writing a new for of page layout that would work better with grid layouts (like bootstrap or many more) | 23:04 |
| @scrottie | I am way out of date with developments in JS UI stuff | 23:05 |
| @scrottie | guess it just isn't usually my idea of fun | 23:05 |
| xdanger | scrottie: have a look if you want to: http://mhx.fi/tmp/styles_bootstrap.wgpkg | 23:08 |
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| Trex | Hello folks. Anyone know if there is an alternate source for /data/wre/prereqs for 64bit other than the one posted in this thread: http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/wre-on-centos-5.5-32bit- ? | 19:37 |
| Trex | Posted by preaction via dropbox, but the file no longer seems to exist. | 19:37 |
| Trex | Also, as long as I'm here, any big news on WebGUI being announced at the Perl conference in Madison? | 19:40 |
| @scrottie | Trex, no one tells me anything =P | 19:43 |
| @scrottie | haven't heard of another 64bit WRE | 19:44 |
| @scrottie | I suggest doing the source install. | 19:44 |
| Trex | Things have gotten VERY quiet with WebGUI the last 6 months or more. I'm hoping it's because people are frantically working to get WG8 ready and not because WG8 killed WebGUI. | 19:45 |
| @scrottie | no frantic work on wG8 recently. | 19:45 |
| @scrottie | we're low on staff again, so client work is dominating. | 19:45 |
| @scrottie | that's obviously not sustainable. if there's no interesting, useful product, then there's no client work down the road. | 19:46 |
| @scrottie | but the project I've been working on is wrapping up, so I'm optimistic about having some time. | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | it's feast or famine. no time at all or else too much of it. | 19:47 |
| Trex | Sad but true. I've tried to come up with ways to convince my boss at the day job to hire PlainBlack and give you all some more work, but never got traction on any suggestions. Budgets are too tight. | 19:48 |
| @scrottie | really, it was good fortune that preaction was able to dedicate almost all of his time (when I wasn't asking him questions about projects he previous worked on =P ) for so long. | 19:48 |
| @scrottie | yeah. I think most outfits are feeling the crunch. | 19:48 |
| @scrottie | I should be able to do some more work on wG. install stuff is on my short list. it should be *easy* to deploy it. this situation is really bad for marketing. | 19:49 |
| @scrottie | but help from the community is more important than ever. people just kind of have to take wG8 and see its charms and help work past the rough bits. | 19:49 |
| Trex | I've had "try installing WG8" on my to-do list for months, but I'm already behind on major projects of my own at this point. | 19:50 |
| @scrottie | heh, yup. | 19:51 |
| Trex | I was hoping to get the VMWare appliance upgraded to 7.9 for a roadtrip and knock out some work while others drive, but it seems the 64 bit laptop just isn't going to cut it. | 19:51 |
| Trex | I'm sadly going to be out of town for a trade show the same time as YAPC, otherwise I'd be attending that. | 19:52 |
| @scrottie | well, I think an easy install process will help wG8's caues a lot. and I'm not convinced that creating wres is the way to do that. | 19:53 |
| @scrottie | d'oh! | 19:53 |
| Trex | The WRE seemed like a good idea in many ways, even though it took me forever to convince our sysadmin, who knew the traditional LAMP setup, to change from that environment for Apache and MySQL. | 19:54 |
| @scrottie | I don't know what JT has planned for announcing wG8 (it's scary sometimes how autonamously we work here) but I'm at least going to put in for a lightning talk. my wG8 talk was not accepted. I'm not sure what that means =P | 19:54 |
| @scrottie | well, imo, we started doing a bad job of keeping the WRE up to date. | 19:55 |
| @scrottie | and then 32 and 64 bit Debian, CentOS and OSX is a lot. we'd have to tool up a lot to automate those builds. | 19:56 |
| Trex | My guess was that WG8 always seemed so close that no one wanted to put effort into the WG7 WRE, which presumably was going to be quickly obsolete. | 19:56 |
| @scrottie | one big hurdle we've been talking about for a long time is reworking some things so that it can install from CPAN with eg cpanm. | 19:56 |
| @scrottie | yeah, that was partially it. | 19:56 |
| @scrottie | even though we knew full well that wG8 isn't really a replacement for 7. people who run 7 are likely going to continue running it for a long time. | 19:57 |
| Trex | Well, thanks for the chat. I have to head off again. | 20:04 |
| Trex | If there's any chance of someone posting a 7.9 VMWare appliance, that woul be totally AWESOME. Just sayin... | 20:04 |
| ckotil | Yeah, i dont see us moving to 8 anytime soon. i upgraded the current 7 site to 8 on a dev host. | 20:04 |
| ckotil | lots of things didn't work after the upgrade | 20:05 |
| ckotil | macro | 20:05 |
| ckotil | macor | 20:05 |
| Trex | Have fun at YAPC! | 20:05 |
| ckotil | damnit. | 20:05 |
| ckotil | macro's templates etc.. | 20:05 |
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| @scrottie | ckotil, let's chat about that after YAPC. | 20:11 |
| CIA-68 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.10 * rdb3058c / sbin/preload.perl : Removing exclude of files that don't exist anymore. - http://git.io/0RGpzg | 20:20 |
| ckotil | sure thing | 21:19 |
| sbaur | for all the developers on the list, good info about http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/06/how-companies-can-beef-up-password-security prompted by what happened at linkedin | 22:33 |
| @scrottie | yeah, that goes on the list of things to do... salt the passwords. | 22:35 |
| sbaur | actually, the article says, that's not good enough, use bcrypt (or something similar) instead | 22:36 |
| @scrottie | instead of what? | 22:36 |
| @scrottie | salting passwords isn't an either-or proposition, generally. | 22:36 |
| sbaur | instead of salted sha-1 | 22:36 |
| @scrottie | alright. if the argument is that sha1 is partially broken, that's legit. but salting the things is what's on my todo list. | 22:36 |
| sbaur | it's more saying that cryptographic hashes are designed for speed, which is only helpful to the crackers, but password hashes are designed to take lots more time to crack | 22:37 |
| @scrottie | I've always liked the Blowfish idea of having a large number of rounds just to make the function expensive. | 22:38 |
| @scrottie | right. | 22:38 |
| sbaur | [from the hacker perspective] "If a normal password try takes a microsecond [one millionth of a second]- but a bcrypt password trial takes 10 milliseconds [a hundredth of a second] -- you might as well give up. It will take years and years.' | 22:39 |
| @scrottie | well, SHA1 was designed for speed and for other security considerations as well. saying it was designed for speed is a slight simplification. | 22:39 |
| @scrottie | did you read that analysis of Stuxnet from the dude in Microsoft's response team that got stuck with dealing with it? Microsoft gave him permission to speak about it at conferences, something like a year later. | 22:40 |
| sbaur | i recommend going through the article, it makes a good case to this non-programmer | 22:40 |
| sbaur | yep | 22:41 |
| @scrottie | fascinating. one of the exploits was a job run system that used *CRC32* to make sure that the job control XML file hadn't been changed. | 22:41 |
| @scrottie | sometimes people forget that there are things weaker than DES... but apparently Microsoft didn't forget. they used it =P | 22:42 |
| sbaur | lol | 22:42 |
| @scrottie | 256 bit? 128 bit? 56 bit? naw, 32 should be enough. | 22:43 |
| @scrottie | no, I'm already sold. WebGUI needs a stronger hash and one meant for the job, and it needs salting. | 22:44 |
| sbaur | :D | 22:44 |
| @scrottie | still, a strong hash like Blowfish and no salting at all, I don't see as workable. it might take a lot of computing power, but once you build a crypt dict of Blowfish or bcrypt passwords, then you can crack any password file instantly. | 22:45 |
| @scrottie | unless they're salted. | 22:45 |
| sbaur | true | 22:45 |
| sbaur | are there plans for any sort of two-factor authentication mechanism in WG? | 22:49 |
| @scrottie | nope! the Auth plugin system was cleaned up in 8. if preaction managed to make it easy to write auth plugins, then I consider it a smashing success. | 22:50 |
| @scrottie | I know there are RADIUS other auth clients on CPAN. hooking up one of those should be easy. | 22:51 |
| sbaur | guess we'll have to rewrite our custom auth module then before we go to 8 (not really surprised) | 22:51 |
| @scrottie | the good news is that it doesn't suck any more in 8. imo. | 22:51 |
| sbaur | good to hear. the bad news is the programmer who wrote it for us left a few years ago :) | 22:52 |
| @scrottie | well, no wonder! you made him write wG7 auth plugins! | 22:52 |
| @scrottie | (or her) | 22:52 |
| sbaur | may have even been wg6 (or 5)? don't remember when we implemented our single sign on stuff | 22:53 |
| @scrottie | I see. | 22:53 |
| @scrottie | I'm going to have to seriously think about a compatability shim for wG7->wG8. | 22:54 |
| @scrottie | it'll still have to run on plack, but it shouldn't be too hard to support the wG7 style asset definitions. | 22:55 |
| sbaur | what would really help me is upgrade paths from my existing older 7.5 and 7.6s that don't require going through all the stop versions | 22:56 |
| sbaur | or package import from really old versions of content. because doing the 5 or so cycles of fixing/testing between here and wg8 just do not look appealing | 22:57 |
| @scrottie | I thought about that a bit decided that it would be too hard to make it work right to have all of the upgraders in one .tar.gz. API changes would keep older upgrades from working. | 22:59 |
| @scrottie | there are *no* plants to do this, but I'd like to point at what Microsoft did when people decided that they couldn't be bothered to run updates: ran them for you when you weren't looking. | 23:00 |
| @scrottie | it's pretty easy to do a git checkout of WebGUI and check out one release tag after another. | 23:00 |
| @scrottie | the only hard part is when upgrades muck something up. | 23:01 |
| sbaur | which they have always done for us | 23:01 |
| @scrottie | ugh. | 23:01 |
| sbaur | can you say nested macro? That's my current bugaboo for 7.5->.6 | 23:01 |
| @scrottie | do you have a ticket open for that? | 23:02 |
| sbaur | I created one a while back | 23:02 |
| sbaur | and I know how to fix it | 23:02 |
| @scrottie | hrm. | 23:02 |
| sbaur | but, finding all the places that's it's a problem is hard | 23:02 |
| @scrottie | well, let me know after YAPC if there's anything I can do to help. | 23:02 |
| @scrottie | there may be a programmatic fix that can be run as an upgrader. | 23:03 |
| sbaur | especially since we tend to use it around our login links | 23:03 |
| sbaur | I have a Nested Macro version tag on most of my sites now, that will get committed as soon as I get the rest of the sites on my last 7.5 server tested/fixed under 7.6. But I got derailed by an asset totally blowing up modperl on one site, and I have had other fires keep me from tracking it down | 23:04 |
| sbaur | sometimes I am my worst enemy for this stuff | 23:13 |
| @scrottie | it just goes to show that it's really hard to tell the difference between a really good idea and a really bad one. | 23:14 |
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| sbaur | any word on whether the mysql in the WRE is vulnerable to the Authentication Bypass Vulnerability? | 18:21 |
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| ckotil | heh, i just tried it this morning. | 19:02 |
| ckotil | seemed unaffected. im running wre on rhel5 | 19:02 |
| ckotil | i built it from source a few years ago | 19:02 |
| ckotil | i basically ran this http://pastie.org/private/903voijkkz8nmde3yqj4rw | 19:02 |
| sbaur | cool, what version of the WRE? | 19:41 |
| ckotil | 0.9.1 | 19:42 |
| sbaur | thanks, i'll grab that code out of pastie and try on one of our dev systems... | 19:42 |
| ckotil | just be sure to use the wre mysql | 19:49 |
| sbaur | since it never succeeds I'll assume that I'm not vulnerable :) | 19:53 |
| sbaur | thanks ckotil | 19:55 |
| ckotil | yw | 20:04 |
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| ckotil | Has anyone ever upgraded the rich editor? | 16:17 |
| ckotil | I figure tinymce is actively maintained. How hard is it to drop in a newer version? | 16:18 |
| +BartJol | Well, I know that a while ago (several years), it has been updated | 16:25 |
| +BartJol | I see that it has been updated in 7.5.9 on http://www.webgui.org/bazaar/smiley-macro | 16:27 |
| +BartJol | that is the last update I see in the changelog | 16:28 |
| +BartJol | but ckotil, I haven't done it myself | 16:31 |
| ckotil | ok | 16:32 |
| ckotil | i may attempt it on a dev host | 16:32 |
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| sbaur | Happy friday everyone! | 19:39 |
| sbaur | I am back to trying to figure out why one of my sites will not upgrade from 7.5 to 7.6 | 19:39 |
| sbaur | I think i have narrowed it down to something actually in the DB, not any of the conf files or uploads dir | 19:40 |
| sbaur | according to the wreservice.pl script mod perl and mod proxy both fail to start, but if I do a ps, I see both modperl and modproxy processes running | 19:42 |
| sbaur | my upgrade process output is here: http://pastebin.com/ueED4KGS | 19:43 |
| ckotil | it looks like the upgrade completes successfully, without error | 19:44 |
| sbaur | that's what it looks like except for the templates that don't instanciate, but I get that on most of my old sites | 19:46 |
| sbaur | wait, 132 is back in this list. that one is important. OTOH, i can't imagine a missing template would keep modperl from even loading | 19:47 |
| sbaur | and i've been using this environment to update my other sites and have not run into anything like this | 19:48 |
| sbaur | heh, and the site is actually running | 19:49 |
| sbaur | sort of | 19:49 |
| sbaur | using the WG bookmarks I can get logged in and to the asset manager | 19:49 |
| sbaur | it's just so strange | 19:49 |
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| sbaur | I've imported the missing template, and issued another wreservice restart and modperl, modproxy still say they failed even though ps shows running processes | 19:53 |
| sbaur | and I can interact with the site by going into the asset manager using urls | 19:53 |
| sbaur | I'm so confused | 19:54 |
| sbaur | I am getting SizeLimit errors in the modperl error log, but those only start to show up after wreservice.pl reports that it failed to start | 19:56 |
| sbaur | And, my conf files are all what a 7.6 addsite.pl created | 19:56 |
| sbaur | I would welcome other suggestions, no matter how outlandish, to try to figure this one out | 20:01 |
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| sbaur | ok, I think the problem is something on the site's home page, at least, it will display other pages to me | 21:09 |
| sbaur | if I change the home page to some other site, wreservice restarts without error | 21:19 |
| sbaur | now to figure out what exactly is causing the problem | 21:20 |
| sbaur | OMG! all this trouble because a shortcut on the home page no longer had something to point at! | 21:24 |
| sbaur | GRRRRR | 21:25 |
| ckotil | I did the unthinkable, and added a lot of the wiki tag features to Asset.pm so my Layouts and Articles can add/drop tags, show the tag cloud, and search by tags. | 21:25 |
| ckotil | heh, that sucks sbaur. good you found it tho | 21:25 |
| sbaur | why unthinkable | 21:25 |
| ckotil | bc they're not in there to begin with ;) | 21:25 |
| sbaur | I live on this pendulum of webgui love and hate, right now, I've swung back over to the hate side | 21:26 |
| ckotil | you'll be back soon enough | 21:26 |
| sbaur | wonder if later versions have this same bug or not... | 21:28 |
| sbaur | but I hate WG too much right now to actually try to reproduce | 21:29 |
| sbaur | but that it told me modperl had failed because of a stupid shortcut | 21:29 |
| ckotil | i seem to always have problems updating. which is why im still on 7.9.23 | 21:31 |
| ckotil | i did manage to upgrade a dev host from 7.9.23 to 8. that was ... interesting. it worked in the end. but lots of stuff was broke. most of my macro's | 21:32 |
| sbaur | it's why i'm still working on getting to 7.6 on my 3rd server | 21:32 |
| sbaur | I'm hoping to skip 7.7,7.8.7.9,7.10 and go straight to 8 | 21:33 |
| sbaur | I think it will be faster to totally copy/recreate my 20+ sites then to go through that hellish upgrade path one by one | 21:33 |
| sbaur | at least I believe it enough to try it with some of my smaller sites | 21:34 |
| sbaur | we'll have to rewrite all our custom code no matter what | 21:34 |
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| sbaur | and now, I get to track down all the other things that broke in this site when upgrading to 7.6... | 21:38 |
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| @scrottie | it looks like my suspicion was wrong: there was no big wG8 announcement at YAPC. JT can be quite the showman when he wants to be, but the inclination didn't seem to have grabbed him. | 07:04 |
| xdanger | that's too bad | 10:09 |
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| CIA-68 | webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.10 * r225df67 / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/PseudoRequest.pm): PseudoRequest shouldn't clobber Apache2::Cookies if the package already exists; mock requests are sometimes useful under mod_perl and this is a bit of a gotcha - http://git.io/qNjG3A | 01:04 |
| CIA-68 | webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.10 * r851844c / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt t/lib/WebGUI/PseudoRequest.pm): lots of stuff expects the request object to have a hostname method. give it one. - http://git.io/O7vx0A | 01:04 |
| CIA-68 | webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.10 * reaa29c5 / (3 files in 3 dirs): group() function Survey::ExpressionEngine that returns 1/0 depending on whether the current user is in a group - http://git.io/r4ecMw | 01:04 |
| CIA-68 | webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.10 * r3fe8f9a / (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/User.pm t/User.t): fix nasty data sync bug in WebGUI::User::friends that was causing the friendsGroup assigned to a user t - http://git.io/O0BwHg | 01:04 |
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| CIA-68 | webgui: Scott Walters webgui-7.10 * r0422807 / (3 files in 3 dirs): Revert "group() function Survey::ExpressionEngine that returns 1/0 depending on whether the current user is in a group" -- wrong branch. - http://git.io/M5DnTg | 02:32 |
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| @scrottie | it's not even 5: yet in the Netherlands, BartJol. | 17:46 |
| @scrottie | and you're already gone. | 17:46 |
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| ckotil | 9to5 is a myth | 18:21 |
| sbaur | yes, at the very least it's 8-5 with no paid lunch | 18:21 |
| ckotil | heh | 18:34 |
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| haarg | scrottie: what part of the code had the error with the permissions? | 03:37 |
| haarg | there's definitely some parts of the code i definitely misused exceptions, but the push request as is isn't really workable | 03:37 |
| haarg | in most cases, WGDEV_DEBUG should give enough information about exceptions for tracking that down, but i'm sure there are cases it isn't good enough | 03:40 |
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| @scrottie | yeah, no, that commit was pure snark. | 03:44 |
| @scrottie | okay, the push was pure snark. the commit was actually useful to me, but that was just the result of perl -p -i -e 's/eval \{/do {/'. | 03:45 |
| @scrottie | if you're interested, I could take a more serious stab at it eventually. | 03:45 |
| @scrottie | I don't know which ones were hiding the error but after taking the eval's out, I then had to take the try's out. | 03:46 |
| haarg | it mainly sounds like somewhere i'm swallowing errors without checking them. it shouldn't be too hard to fix that, although webgui isn't all that consistent with its errors. | 03:46 |
| @scrottie | wG8 is a lot better, because I beat on it until I was happy with it. | 03:46 |
| @scrottie | there are probably a few places where eval { } or try { } makes sense, but most of the time, the best thing really is just to let them float up the stack. | 03:47 |
| haarg | the worst thing i did with exceptions is in the root/config finding code, which thankfully doesn't touch webgui itself so i don't think it should lead to problems like this. | 03:47 |
| @scrottie | if you're not actually working around an error condition or adding extra useful information to an error object that preserves the original error context (stack trace, lexicals, etc), and you're not keeping some daemon from melting down, then the error shouldn't be trapped. | 03:48 |
| haarg | agreed | 03:48 |
| haarg | but the asset finding code for example tries a second behavior if the first fails | 03:48 |
| @scrottie | makes sense. I don't know if you can rethrow a union of error objects =P | 03:48 |
| @scrottie | maybe there is a need for that. I don't think I care enough to make that module, though. | 03:49 |
| haarg | well, there's RETHROW | 03:49 |
| haarg | which i only recently learned about | 03:49 |
| @scrottie | RETHROW? all caps? | 03:49 |
| haarg | or is it named something else... | 03:49 |
| @scrottie | don't know. does it do anything other than rethrow a caught error object? | 03:50 |
| haarg | sorry, PROPAGATE | 03:50 |
| haarg | perldoc -f die | 03:50 |
| @scrottie | ah, so that does add more info. | 03:51 |
| @scrottie | and the original isn't disappeared. | 03:52 |
| haarg | yeah | 03:52 |
| haarg | if you could point out the specific place your error was getting swallowed, i'd be happy to make changes for it. i might also try to get WGDEV_DEBUG to provide more info. | 03:53 |
| @scrottie | a'right. I'll see what I can do there. | 03:54 |
| @scrottie | http://paste.scsys.co.uk/201046 | 03:59 |
| @scrottie | WGDev::Asset::find('WGDev::Asset=HASH(0xa2a21d0)', 'home/alumni-tools') called at /data/wre/prereqs/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.10.0/WGDev/Command/Edit.pm line 146 | 04:00 |
| @scrottie | looks like the last place the CPU touched wgdev | 04:00 |
| @scrottie | afk a bit, sorry | 04:00 |
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| haarg | scrottie: i think i see what the issue is there | 09:00 |
| haarg | it tries to preserve the error from webgui, but it has to choose between two. i can probably make it a bit smarter about that, but it's going to be problematic either way. | 09:01 |
| haarg | or maybe not :/ | 09:03 |
| haarg | it wouldn't try the by_id part in this case, because that isn't a valid guid | 09:05 |
| haarg | Edit.pm around line 143. that's the issue. | 09:07 |
| haarg | need to be able to detect 'not found' errors there vs other things. | 09:08 |
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| neilkpd | Good morning! what is the status of webgui 8? I expected news after YAPC. | 16:52 |
| -!- waxhead [~pete@ppp121-45-198-220.lns20.cbr1.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] | 16:59 | |
| +danny_mk | LOL, you are not the only one. Seems that forum post is going unanswered at this point. | 16:59 |
| +danny_mk | neilkpd: http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/any-update-on-webgui-8-#id-ow-3KBzJHNAemNf9APPyw | 17:49 |
| +danny_mk | neilkpd: http://blog.webgui.org/post/16125902354/major-milestone-branching | 17:53 |
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| @scrottie | neilkpd: I was really expecting an announcement at YAPC. | 18:39 |
| @scrottie | too | 18:39 |
| @scrottie | anyway, 8 is out. | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | run it, talk to me about it, report bugs, hack on it. | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | I did say that I would spend some time on it after YAPC (had a presentation to get ready) | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | ((on something else)) | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | oh, something wG8 related *did* happen at YAPC. I agreed to help The Perl Foundation migrate their unsupported, ancient SocialText Wiki over to wG8. | 18:45 |
| @scrottie | that's used by various projects TPF funds and coordinates. | 18:45 |
| ckotil | sweet | 18:46 |
| ckotil | are you going to use the wiki asset? | 18:47 |
| @scrottie | in some modified form, yeah. | 18:51 |
| @scrottie | but they were also using the SocialText Wiki as a CMS and want a CMS. | 18:51 |
| @scrottie | so I'll probably use more than that. | 18:51 |
| @scrottie | this is mostly on my own time, but PB lets me write off a certain amount of time for "things that are shiney". | 18:52 |
| ckotil | i can't stand the wiki. too limited | 19:21 |
| ckotil | well i like the keyword components | 19:22 |
| ckotil | so much that i've been incorporating them into Asset.pm | 19:22 |
| ckotil | tho i will pry break that out of Asset.pm to make upgrades easier | 19:23 |
| @scrottie | heh | 19:29 |
| @scrottie | funny, at YAPC people kept saying "there's no Perl Wiki!" | 19:29 |
| @scrottie | there's OddMuse. wG has its. I wrote TinyWiki, a version of which held the record for the smallest Wiki for over a year. | 19:30 |
| @scrottie | the Perl community has some serious NIH blinders on. | 19:30 |
| @scrottie | to be expected, I guess. the kids are taking over advocacy and are developing all of the popular stuff. | 19:30 |
| @scrottie | if you're not connected to that crowd, your work virtually doesn't exist. | 19:30 |
| @scrottie | I wrote a type checking system in Perl. about a year later, someone went to TPF for a development grant to build another of the same thing and got the money and didn't finish it. | 19:31 |
| @scrottie | the code radar (or lack of it) is frustrating. | 19:31 |
| * scrottie posts on http://www.webgui.org/etcetera/any-update-on-webgui-8- | 19:38 | |
| @scrottie | oh boy do I have a lot of work to do. | 19:38 |
| ckotil | yeah, it would be nice if webgui got more attention | 19:42 |
| ckotil | from the community, not you guys ;) | 19:43 |
| sbaur | any status update on the WRE for 8? | 19:43 |
| @scrottie | sbaur, I think perlDreamer released something. I don't use it on dev so I don't pay much attention. do you see one on sourceforge? | 19:43 |
| sbaur | haven't gone looking yet, just curious | 19:44 |
| @scrottie | http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbwebgui/files/WebGUI%20Runtime%20Environment/WRE%200.9.3/ ... that's what I get linked to. that's not for wG8 | 19:45 |
| @scrottie | this one is newer: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pbwebgui/files/WebGUI%20Runtime%20Environment/WRE%200.9.6/ | 19:45 |
| ckotil | woah sweet | 19:46 |
| @scrottie | but... I don't think that's for wG8 | 19:46 |
| @scrottie | ask on the forums? | 19:46 |
| ckotil | im still on 0.9.1, but with a new web server coming soon from Dell , I may upgrade it | 19:46 |
| @scrottie | ckotil, I understand that there's a security problem with the SSL libs in the old wre that allows a DoS attack | 19:46 |
| ckotil | openssl? | 19:47 |
| sbaur | would be helpful if searching for webgui runtime on sourceforge's main page actually showed results, any results | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | yeah | 19:47 |
| ckotil | I upgraded those | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | and possible remote code exploit | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | ah | 19:47 |
| ckotil | yeah, it's nowhere near stock | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | don't know what else got updated in that wre. mysql was quite old. | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | heh | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | nice | 19:47 |
| ckotil | source compiled too from the get go | 19:47 |
| ckotil | i like the idea of the wre tho | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | there was some talk of adding HandlerSocket support, which is screaming fast, but I don't know if perlDreamer did that | 19:47 |
| ckotil | when I first started using webgui for our web presence I ran it from source. what a pain | 19:47 |
| sbaur | i would like the idea of the WRE a whole lot more if it was easy to upgrade the individual components | 19:48 |
| ckotil | it's not bad when you build the wre from source. just keep your source dir around | 19:48 |
| @scrottie | sbaur, what I'd like to do, since we're doing a bad job of keeping the WRE up to date, is to create an installer that manages installing components using rpm/apt | 19:49 |
| sbaur | otoh, i've never seen good instructions for that | 19:49 |
| sbaur | that would be awesome | 19:49 |
| * ckotil seconds that | 19:49 | |
| @scrottie | that wG8 has more than a couple of installation steps is one of my main peeves | 19:49 |
| ckotil | webgui is about the only thing i run anymore that's not from an rpm | 19:49 |
| sbaur | same here | 19:49 |
| ckotil | we even package up perl scripts, web services, you name it | 19:49 |
| @scrottie | people keep asking for help installing it. it should just go. people don't have a lot of attention for that kind of stuff any more. | 19:49 |
| ckotil | having your own repo plus puppet/cobbler/koan makes building systems a breeze | 19:50 |
| @scrottie | ckotil, someone is maintaining a dpkg of it for Debian, but yeah, no rpm. | 19:50 |
| sbaur | so, if you just search for webgui on SF, then click files, then you can find the wre | 19:50 |
| sbaur | not easy | 19:50 |
| @scrottie | things are more likely to become pkgs/rpms if they already use existing deps without change and install without major grief. | 19:50 |
| @scrottie | yeah. | 19:51 |
| @scrottie | at the time, distributing via SourceForge was the killer way to do it, and wG owes a lot of its success to that... but that's less true now days. | 19:51 |
| sbaur | it just should be separated from the main webgui. e.g it's telling me that the latest version is webgui-7.10.23 when i'm looking at a wre download | 19:52 |
| haarg | i always meant to put something like add-site into webgui core | 20:05 |
| haarg | and wanted to remove the Image::Magick dep. those are the main things preventing webgui from being cpan-able, and would also help with other packaging things. | 20:06 |
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| @scrottie | haarg, Image::Magick is on my todo list. I'd really like to get the core of wG onto CPAN. | 20:25 |
| @scrottie | hoping to have some time for this stuff -- and I think I do -- after finish $last_huge_project | 20:25 |
| @scrottie | finishing | 20:25 |
| haarg | the captcha and thumbnail stuff would be easy to replace with something else, and iirc i already did most of that at one point. | 20:27 |
| haarg | the graphing things are harder. honestly it would kind of make sense to rip that out and have it as a separate thing | 20:27 |
| @scrottie | in my dream world, CPAN would overtake the wG Marketplace. | 20:28 |
| @scrottie | no reason we can't have WebGUI::Asset::Wiki on CPAN. | 20:28 |
| @scrottie | and graphing stuff can turn itself on or off depending on whether modules are available, or list the Perl wrappers as deps, or whatever. | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | these are solved problems. | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | but still, killing ImageMagick is on my todo list. | 20:29 |
| neilkpd | I can't wait for wg8 installation/setup becoming less simplier than wg7. When do you think that could be? | 20:30 |
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| @scrottie | Godel's Law dictates that I don't know. | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | heya vanjwilson | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | it's one of my shortlist todo items, though. | 20:32 |
| vanjwilson | hey, scrottie | 20:32 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd: but you're right. I should do something soon. it's been too long! | 20:34 |
| neilkpd | 'You' are approaching one (1) year! | 20:36 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, it is an open source project. PlainBlack had a developer on wG8 full time for probably two years. other people can contribute improvements too ;) | 20:37 |
| @scrottie | it's all about fixing the things that bug you... scratching your own itch, as they say. and then sharing. | 20:38 |
| vanjwilson | Has anyone ever run into this situation: migrated our WebGUI dev server to a VM with a fresh install of Ubuntu 10.4, but the image our host (Liquid Web) offered did not have a mail server installed by default(?!?). I just installed Postfix and can send mail locally and to remote addresses, but WebGUI still can't send mail. It just fails almost silently (mail workflows get suspended and try later, but no errors in any of the logs) | 20:42 |
| neilkpd | I know. But I have hopes! I was told that I have a new car which I can only imagine driving. | 20:43 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, what's the problem? install WebGUI8 and use it! report bugs. fix bugs if you can. | 20:46 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, 8.0.0 is out. 8.0.1 is in progress. | 20:46 |
| @scrottie | I'm going to go do an errand in a few here. | 20:51 |
| @scrottie | vanjwilson, hrm. | 21:05 |
| @scrottie | so the outgoing mail is still in the queue? turn up the log level? | 21:05 |
| @scrottie | what is the 'smtpServer' setting? | 21:06 |
| @scrottie | do you have wgd installed? if so, wgd setting smtpServer ... otherwise, whereever that's set in the Settings in the control panel. | 21:06 |
| @scrottie | can you do: telnet localhost 25 | 21:07 |
| @scrottie | get "Connected to" ..? | 21:07 |
| vanjwilson | The mail was still in the queue. | 21:07 |
| @scrottie | WebGUI likes to talk over a TCP socket rather than invoking /usr/sbin/sendmail | 21:07 |
| vanjwilson | stmp Server in Messaging tab is "localhost" (as it is on our production instance, which is also 7.10.24, but running on Ubuntu 8.4) | 21:08 |
| vanjwilson | I sent several different emails using the "telnet localhost 25" method | 21:09 |
| @scrottie | I assume emailToLog isn't set in the config file. if nothing else, the messages would vanish from the queue if so. hrm. | 21:10 |
| @scrottie | WebGUI::Mail::Send.pm around line 543 is this; | 21:11 |
| @scrottie | else { | 21:11 |
| @scrottie | my $smtp = Net::SMTP->new($smtpServer); # connect to an SMTP server | 21:11 |
| @scrottie | you should be able to add "or $log->error(... some message ... );' to several of those lines | 21:12 |
| @scrottie | $smpt->mail(...), ->data, ->datasend, dataend, quit... all of those should get or $log->error stuck on the end of them. | 21:13 |
| @scrottie | that'll narrow down where it's going wrong. | 21:13 |
| @scrottie | don't see anything in the Net::SMTP docs about getting more details on failure | 21:13 |
| @scrottie | ah, looks like you can pass Net::SMTP->new() a Debug => 1 parameter | 21:14 |
| @scrottie | it doesn't say, but that'll probably show up in your mod_perl log | 21:15 |
| @scrottie | paste the output of that into a gist.github.com or another nopaste service and show it to me when I'm back online? another thing that might work is changing the smtpServer setting from localhost to /usr/sbin/sendmail | 21:15 |
| @scrottie | that'll force it to invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail directly, but the args hard-coded in may not be correct for postfix's version of /usr/sbin/sendmail | 21:16 |
| vanjwilson | I'll put in that logging | 21:19 |
| @scrottie | hrm, though if it $smtp->quit fails, nothing sets $status to 0, so it'll think that it delivered it when it didn't | 21:20 |
| @scrottie | then the message would get removed from the log | 21:21 |
| @scrottie | so I wonder if maybe it isn't even getting that far | 21:21 |
| vanjwilson | there's already a "if (defined $smtp) {... | 21:21 |
| vanjwilson | } else { | 21:21 |
| vanjwilson | $log->error("Couldn't connect to mail server: ".$smtpServer); | 21:21 |
| vanjwilson | $status = 0; | 21:21 |
| vanjwilson | } | 21:21 |
| @scrottie | yeah. I saw that. I was wondering if it was failing past that point. | 21:22 |
| @scrottie | due to some protocol error or the like. | 21:22 |
| vanjwilson | would we be better off with exim, or plain old sendmail | 21:22 |
| vanjwilson | ? | 21:22 |
| @scrottie | you wouldn't be better off with plain old sendmail | 21:22 |
| @scrottie | if wG is using a module that's speaking an out of date protocol or not doing something right by postfix, that should be fixed | 21:23 |
| vanjwilson | I just remembered that we have a customer who is running 7.10.24 on a Mac mini, which uses Postfix, and his emails send. | 21:24 |
| @scrottie | I don't see any info or warn calls in here... only $log->error, so you should see any possible error with log level at error | 21:24 |
| @scrottie | well, with Debug => 1 in Net::SMTP, you should see messages in the mod_perl log about not being able to use a from address or SMTP handshake wrong or unable to parse an email address or various other things | 21:25 |
| @scrottie | please do that and try again and let me know what comes up, if anything. | 21:25 |
| @scrottie | it may just be a postfix config change. | 21:25 |
| @scrottie | afk a bit | 21:25 |
| vanjwilson | restarted server, and submitted a DataForm, but still nothing in the modperl.error.log | 21:32 |
| @scrottie | add a $log->warn inside if( defined $smtp ) { ... } to verify that it's actually getting into there? is spectre maybe not running at all, or not able to talk to the wG? | 21:35 |
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| vanjwilson | "perl spectre.pl --test" runs through all our sites on this server and returns "Tests completed" | 21:38 |
| vanjwilson | there's no log, so it's not getting into the "defined" branch of the loop, either | 21:47 |
| sbaur | usually a restart of spectre will get mail flowing, but you may have already tried that | 21:58 |
| sbaur | if your postfix is set to only allow authenticated senders, that could be causing a problem as well | 21:58 |
| sbaur | WG still doesn't allow authentication on send (only requested that feature a few years ago...) | 21:59 |
| vanjwilson | good suggestion, I'll check the postfix defaults for 10.4, it may now default to authentication | 22:01 |
| sbaur | though you should have run into that with the telnet tests | 22:02 |
| sbaur | also make sure that the user running webgui is allowed to send messages (might be a different setting) | 22:03 |
| +danny_mk | My main issue helping out with WebGUI improvements is writing the test scripts. | 22:24 |
| +danny_mk | believe it or not I have only written a handful of tests during a lifetime of development. | 22:25 |
| +danny_mk | however I finding it more difficult to write software without it | 22:25 |
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| @scrottie | maybe a $log->warn after if ($mail->head->get("To")) { | 22:46 |
| @scrottie | to verify that the email has a To | 22:46 |
| @scrottie | otherwise none of that logic will run | 22:46 |
| @scrottie | around line 516 | 22:46 |
| @scrottie | then another after if ($group) { | 22:47 |
| @scrottie | and maybe one at the top of the sub send { | 22:47 |
| @scrottie | to see if that's getting called at all | 22:47 |
| @scrottie | if not, have to backtrack from there | 22:47 |
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| --- Day changed Fri Jun 22 2012 | ||
| -!- daviddelikat [~dav@71.150.251.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 01:57 | |
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| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * r7048596 / getsource.sh : Can't build modperl against apache 2.4 without a threaded perl. - http://git.io/STACTQ | 03:44 |
| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * rf03b009 / getsource.sh : Change the target directory for the apr support libraries. - http://git.io/0uZF_w | 03:44 |
| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * rdcbfdf0 / (build.sh getsource.sh): Build setups for apache 2.2.22 and new mod_perl. - http://git.io/BTMsrQ | 03:44 |
| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * r4a4cf10 / build.sh : Small tweak for building IM - http://git.io/xyHHQg | 03:44 |
| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * r9598af7 / build.sh : Awstats build fix. - http://git.io/me0efg | 03:44 |
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| neilkpd | Hi. I need help installing wre-0.9.6 and wg8 beta. | 17:31 |
| neilkpd | There are three sets on instructions...wre, wg8 and github. I have a minimal instal of Centos, and have downloaded the new wre and wg8 | 17:31 |
| @scrottie | heya neilkpd | 17:35 |
| neilkpd | Good morning Scrottie. | 17:35 |
| @scrottie | the instructions with wg8 assume a source install. those were written before the wre was updated for 8 | 17:35 |
| @scrottie | which github docs are you looking at? https://github.com/plainblack/wrebuild/blob/d432f0797edb77e51a377e150476e30a9a0915d7/wre/docs/install.txt ? | 17:37 |
| @scrottie | is that different from the wre instructions that came with? | 17:37 |
| neilkpd | At the bottom of page, https://github.com/plainblack/webgui | 17:39 |
| @scrottie | from the bottom of that page, "See docs/install.txt for more detailed installation instructions." | 17:43 |
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| @scrottie | in the wG8 tarball/git checkout/distro, that's the README, and it has the short version of the instructions | 17:43 |
| @scrottie | mainly for people who are already familiar with wG7 | 17:43 |
| @scrottie | docs/install.txt should be exactly the same thing but with more details | 17:43 |
| neilkpd | And also here, Which is the easiest or the current preferred way of installing now. I just want to have wg8 up and running. | 17:47 |
| @scrottie | heh, and then the "full" set of instructions claim to be "quick and dirty" | 17:47 |
| @scrottie | are you confident about installing packages with your OS's package manager? do you know how to install mysql on your system? | 17:48 |
| neilkpd | Somewhat. Is this the cmd yum -y install mysql mysql-server mysql-devel mysql-libs | 17:53 |
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| @scrottie | it would be something like that. I don't know CentOS as well as I know Debian. | 18:16 |
| @scrottie | your major choice is whether to use the system package manager's MySQL and related things, or to try to build it from scratch. the *hardest* part of the install is ImageMagick. | 18:17 |
| sbaur | I know RHEL/centos, but didn't see the previous post. | 18:17 |
| @scrottie | er, not build from scratch | 18:17 |
| @scrottie | sorry | 18:17 |
| @scrottie | to use the system package manager or use the WRE | 18:17 |
| @scrottie | if you use the WRE, then you don't have to install MySQL, and most of the modules will be there for you already. perl modules. | 18:17 |
| sbaur | my advice - use the WRE | 18:17 |
| sbaur | unless being uptodate on packages (compliance reasons) is a major concern | 18:18 |
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| sbaur | and i keep hearing about how there's a way to rebuild the wre with newer packages, but I have not gone down that road yet | 18:19 |
| @scrottie | the major downside to the WRE is I haven't sat down to sort out exactly how the install instructions go for 8 with the thing | 18:19 |
| @scrottie | a lot of the instructions... most of them... from the wG8 install docs still apply. it looks like you still have to edit your config file. | 18:20 |
| sbaur | oh we're talking 8. don't pay any attention to what I said. I am still firmly in 7.x | 18:20 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, probably your best bet is to ignore the addsite.pl script because I don't know how to use it, and do essentially this | 18:21 |
| neilkpd | I'm open to either debian or centos. Which ever is more comfortable. | 18:24 |
| @scrottie | use what you've got. | 18:27 |
| @scrottie | I'm trying to fix up a copy of the install instructions to merge the WRE install docs and the wG8 install docs. | 18:27 |
| @scrottie | I'll post that in a few here | 18:27 |
| +danny_mk | Installed 8.0.0, can't create a folder. filed bug report | 18:30 |
| @scrottie | you installed 8? | 18:34 |
| @scrottie | did you run the upgrades? | 18:35 |
| @scrottie | (yes, you have to run the upgrades in a new install) | 18:35 |
| +danny_mk | yup, but I will do that again | 18:35 |
| @scrottie | nope, I should look at the bug report | 18:36 |
| +danny_mk | other things seem to work | 18:38 |
| @scrottie | if you can turn the admin on, upgrades almost certainly ran | 18:38 |
| @scrottie | that's kind of the "did you remember to plug it in?" question | 18:38 |
| +danny_mk | LOL | 18:40 |
| +danny_mk | yup, can turn admin on no problem, see bug report. | 18:40 |
| +danny_mk | the attachment is a screen capture of the error | 18:40 |
| @scrottie | okay, first stab at combined WRE+wG8 install instructions: https://gist.github.com/2973558 ... neilkpd, that's for you. | 18:41 |
| neilkpd | Thank you. | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | hopefully you have time to help me test those instructions =) then I can fix them if things go wrong | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | you're welcome | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | I still need to renumber the points. | 18:42 |
| @scrottie | ugh, steps still missing | 18:44 |
| @scrottie | okay, updated that | 18:53 |
| @scrottie | wait, didn't | 18:54 |
| @scrottie | okay, now updated | 18:54 |
| neilkpd | scrottie, In #5: FIXME: 'WRE mysql should be patched to not look in /etc/.' -- how do I fix this? | 19:01 |
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| @scrottie | neilkpd, it involves hacking around in MySQL's source code and the wre-build source code. that's more a task for me than for you. | 19:09 |
| @scrottie | for now, you just need to make sure that there is no /etc/mysq.conf | 19:09 |
| @scrottie | because it'll override the one in /data/wre/etc/mysql.conf | 19:09 |
| @scrottie | afk a bit | 19:09 |
| neilkpd | Ok. | 19:10 |
| neilkpd | Also in #5: to run this cmd - 'mysql --password --user=webgui < share/create.sql;' wg8 must have already been downloaded. | 19:12 |
| neilkpd | I'm using /data. This cmd should now become: 'mysql --password --user=webgui < /data/WebGUI/share/create.sql;' . Is that correct? | 19:18 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, I'll fix that in the docs, re: wG8 having needed to have been downloaded already, and correct | 19:33 |
| neilkpd | When I run this cmd 'mysql --password --user=webgui < /data/WebGUI/share/create.sql;', I get this error 'ERROR 1046 (3D000) at line 19: No database selected' | 19:35 |
| sbaur | add the name of your site with underscores instead of periods before the < e.g. www_example_com | 19:36 |
| neilkpd | This is probably a conf file. Which .conf file needs to have been edited previously? | 19:40 |
| @scrottie | sorry, got pulled into another conversation | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | trying to catch up | 19:47 |
| @scrottie | #5 isn't 'mysql --password --user=webgui < share/create.sql;' | 19:48 |
| @scrottie | in the current version of the docs | 19:48 |
| @scrottie | but $6 is | 19:48 |
| @scrottie | #6 | 19:48 |
| neilkpd | Scrottie. I'm waiting to hear from you re. Which .conf file needs to have been edited | 20:25 |
| @scrottie | sorry | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | what did you name your conf file? | 20:29 |
| @scrottie | "opy WebGUI.conf.original to something named after the site's URL and | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | ending in .conf, such as www.example.com.conf" | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | "dit it, making sure | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | to insert your site's URL and the database connection information. | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | This is in the dbuser, dbpass, and dsn keys" | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | "Set uploadsPath in the .conf file to eg /data/domains/www.example.com/public/uploads/" | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | those four keys need to be set. | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | others might be worth reading through. | 20:30 |
| @scrottie | how ya doin'? | 20:59 |
| @scrottie | pushed up a new version again with fixes | 21:02 |
| @scrottie | and more details | 21:02 |
| neilkpd | I'm still getting the error, 'ERROR 1046 (3D000) at line 19: No database selected', when I run the cmd, 'mysql --password --user=webgui < /data/WebGUI/share/create.sql;' | 21:05 |
| @scrottie | I updated the instructions | 21:08 |
| @scrottie | pushed a new version up | 21:08 |
| @scrottie | it changes that line | 21:08 |
| @scrottie | $ mysql --password --user=webgui www_example_com < share/create.sql | 21:08 |
| @scrottie | "Pick a database name. Practise is to name it after the site. If you're | 21:09 |
| @scrottie | hosting www.example.com, then "www_example_com" is a good database name | 21:09 |
| @scrottie | for the site" | 21:09 |
| @scrottie | that's the same as the database you've created for WebGUI | 21:09 |
| neilkpd | I get a different error, 'ERROR 1064 (42000) at line 19: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'TYPE=InnoDB CHARSET=utf8' at line 14' | 21:10 |
| @scrottie | argh. | 21:17 |
| @scrottie | what does mysql --version say? | 21:17 |
| neilkpd | mysql Ver 14.14 Distrib 5.5.24, for Linux (i686) using readline 5.1 | 21:19 |
| @scrottie | wanna try something? | 21:19 |
| neilkpd | Ok. | 21:20 |
| @scrottie | cat share/create.sql | sed -e 's!^) TYPE=InnoDB CHARSET=utf8;$!) ENGINE=InnoDB CHARSET=utf8;!' | mysql --user=webgui --password www_example_com | 21:21 |
| @scrottie | again, with whatever your database name is instead of www_example_com | 21:22 |
| neilkpd | I get a different error, 'ERROR 1064 (42000) at line 1703: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'TYPE=MyISAM CHARSET=utf8' at line 18' | 21:25 |
| haarg | i thought wgd had been fixed to use ENGINE but maybe it didn't make it into 8.0.0 | 21:26 |
| @scrottie | Date: Sat Mar 10 13:34:36 2012 -0800 | 21:30 |
| @scrottie | last git entry for share/create.sql | 21:30 |
| neilkpd | It's 2:30 EST. I'll leave at 2:45 and rtn in 2 hours. I will continue from here. | 21:30 |
| @scrottie | instructions have people loading create.sql with MySQL directly. should they have people using wgd --reset? is the translation in there, or in writing the SQL? | 21:30 |
| haarg | the translation is done when building the .sql | 21:31 |
| @scrottie | okay. so it should be a matter of re-generating that file. | 21:31 |
| haarg | e8a1e55 Rewrite the dumped SQL to change TYPE= to ENGINE= to make mysql 5.5 happy. | 21:33 |
| haarg | feb 24 | 21:33 |
| @scrottie | one MyISAM table, for the full text index | 21:34 |
| @scrottie | okay. I'm hoping to give wG8 some attention again here. | 21:34 |
| haarg | i need attempt to fix the asset edit error swallowing, then push out a new wgdev version | 21:34 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, I changed the sed command to handle that case too and pushed the doc up again | 21:38 |
| neilkpd | I ran your updated sed cmd and got this error, 'ERROR 1050 (42S01) at line 19: Table 'AdSku' already exists' | 21:42 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, it's probably easist to go in and drop all of the tables and try again | 21:44 |
| @scrottie | mysql --user=webgui --password www_example_com | 21:44 |
| @scrottie | show tables; | 21:44 |
| @scrottie | then drop table whatever; for each table in there | 21:45 |
| sbaur | ugh, drop the db and recreate it is easier | 21:45 |
| @scrottie | then try the command again. | 21:45 |
| @scrottie | yeah, you could do that too. | 21:45 |
| neilkpd | I'll do that when I get back. Scrottie. Thanks for your help. I will continue when I get back and check for updates here, https://gist.github.com/2973558 | 21:45 |
| haarg | wgd db -c | 21:45 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, sure thing. thanks for your patience. talk to you later. | 21:45 |
| @scrottie | right, that too. | 21:46 |
| @scrottie | I forget that the install instructions have people installing wgd. | 21:46 |
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| +danny_mk | scrottie: I did a fresh installation of WebGUI8 on a local VM and the reported BUG is still there so I am optimistic that it is a valid bug. | 21:56 |
| @scrottie | a'right. lessie. | 21:58 |
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| CIA-68 | webgui: Scott Walters master * rc042f43 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Folder.pm : use AssetAspect::UploadFiles. - http://git.io/-Ism8w | 02:12 |
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| neilkpd | Scrottie. If you're still up. I got the installation to work. Thank you. | 05:33 |
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| @scrottie | cd .. into the scripts dir | 22:26 |
| @scrottie | oh, hrm | 22:26 |
| @scrottie | mis-msg. nevermind. | 22:28 |
| @scrottie | msg BartJol yeah... most pages will have a link in their upper left that says "summary" | 23:09 |
| @scrottie | oops, missed a / there | 23:10 |
| @scrottie | is the path to the wgpkg correct? | 23:21 |
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| neilkpd | Hello Scrottie | 18:20 |
| neilkpd | re. your instructions, https://gist.github.com/2973558 I couldn't reconnect to the database after I restarted webgui. | 18:20 |
| neilkpd | I found this, https://gist.github.com/2318748 and it work great! | 18:21 |
| neilkpd | This tells what gets done, https://gist.github.com/2336045 | 18:22 |
| @scrottie | sorry, I'm kind of thin today and tomorrow. https://gist.github.com/2973558 I've seen. that does have a number of fixes in it. too bad wG is a moving target. wG needs a real installer that comes with and is maintained. or something =) | 18:24 |
| @scrottie | you shouldn't have had to reinstall everything to fix one problem, and I'm not sure why you would have that particular problem anyway. | 18:25 |
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| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * r5697742 / (build.sh getsource.sh): Add experimental build support for HandlerSocket - http://git.io/Y0lChQ | 02:02 |
| @scrottie | yay | 02:05 |
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| neilkpd | Hello. Are packages import/export available in wg8? | 17:32 |
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| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * rd5fb51b / build.sh : Make HandlerSocket build optional due to build issues. - http://git.io/1qOTJQ | 22:12 |
| @scrottie | bah | 22:15 |
| @scrottie | neilkpd, the 'wgd' tool should be able to import/export packages in wG8. I haven't tried wG8's own admin for that. | 22:16 |
| +danny_mk | Just so I am clear, the bug reports that apply to WebGUI8 are the WebGUI Beta bugs. Right? | 23:13 |
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| @scrottie | beta bugs? hmm? | 00:09 |
| haarg | i assume he's talking about the webgui 8 bug tracker | 00:09 |
| +danny_mk | assume correctly | 00:11 |
| @scrottie | webgui.org/8 -- you're asking if that's where you should file bug reports against wG8? | 00:11 |
| +danny_mk | I would love to tackle some of these bugs, however it seems I would have to learn a lot about WebGUI8 internals before I do | 00:12 |
| +danny_mk | I report bugs at: http://www.webgui.org/bugs | 00:12 |
| +danny_mk | Make a mistake and reported to both, Hmmm... | 00:22 |
| neilkpd | Scrottie, I enable package creation in the metadata of the item I want to package. I click on 'assets' but I don't see the package. Has this changed from wg7? | 00:37 |
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| haarg | iirc the ui for packages is different, but i don't know if i ever looked at the wg8's ui | 00:52 |
| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * r9fe661d / build.sh : Track new versions to build. (+6 more commits...) - http://git.io/7oM4MQ | 00:56 |
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| @scrottie | neilkpd, try the forums? I don't know if it has changed. probably a bug. | 05:07 |
| @scrottie | or catch me later (spotty internet today... on the train) and I'll look at the code and try to guess if it's broken or just changed | 05:08 |
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| * scrottie waves hello to BartJol | 12:42 | |
| +BartJol | hi | 12:46 |
| +BartJol | scrottie: what's up? | 12:46 |
| xdanger | scrottie: As I understod the packages are missing from webgui8 admin interface | 16:03 |
| +BartJol | webgui packages IU suppose? | 16:29 |
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| CIA-68 | wrebuild: root wre7 * r2f66510 / (build.sh getsource.sh readme.txt): Fix final issues with building giflib - http://git.io/9BO1nw | 20:44 |
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| +danny_mk | scrottie: quick question before I start on another project. Has PlainBlack decided to go into JQuery or YUI3 for more advanced features? | 23:54 |
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| ckotil_ | danny_mk: it looks like YUI is used for the assetmanager, and as of 7.9.22, it's YUI2.8 | 16:48 |
| +danny_mk | I am thinking of using yui3 for my new project | 16:48 |
| ckotil_ | I just used a bunch of jquery things for my site. | 16:49 |
| +danny_mk | JQuery would have been a better option but since WebGUI uses YUI, YUI3 it is. | 16:49 |
| ckotil_ | but could have done them in YUI. it just seemed easier to use jquery | 16:49 |
| +danny_mk | what was the argument against JQuery again? | 16:49 |
| ckotil_ | there were already jquery components in the style template | 16:49 |
| ckotil_ | oh i have no idea. we should wait for scrottie or someone else to chime in | 16:49 |
| ckotil_ | s/the style template/my style template/ | 16:50 |
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| +danny_mk | is it me or has WebGUI lost a little steam, I can't stand working with systems like Drupal/Joomla | 16:52 |
| +danny_mk | WebGUI has a lot of potential but this 8 release has really put everyone into a coma :-/ | 16:53 |
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| ckotil | it's a really big change | 18:25 |
| ckotil | I upgraded my 7 site to 8 on a dev host. It was very difficult, and half of the site was broken. | 18:26 |
| ckotil | so it will be a long while until I make the jump, i think | 18:26 |
| sbaur | Hi everyone! Is this channel logged anywhere? I seem to remember logs a long time ago, but don't remember where | 18:26 |
| ckotil | yeah it's logged | 18:26 |
| haarg | if you could document the problems you had and what parts of the site are broken (and possibly any errors in the logs) i'm sure it would be appreciated | 18:27 |
| ckotil | haarg: I forgot to do that. Im sorry. | 18:28 |
| ckotil | i dumped the db and tar'd up the files, and shelved it for now. | 18:28 |
| sbaur | ckotil, The more I hear about 8, the more I think I'm just going to re-implement my sites in 8 instead of trying to go through all the upgrade pain. The work on the custom code is the same, and this way I don't have to deal with all the versions between 7.6 and 8 | 18:28 |
| ckotil | back to running 7 on my dev host for dev type stuff. doing lots of neat things with inline editing w/ AJAX and some neat advanced functions. like search by keyword, search beneath this section. basically adding a lot of wiki asset type stuff to Asset.pm | 18:29 |
| ckotil | sbaur: that may be the best way | 18:29 |
| ckotil | re: logs http://mentalhouse.net/irc/logs/webgui/ | 18:30 |
| ckotil | advanced search functions* | 18:31 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, re: WebGUI losing steam, I wrote a long post about that about a week ago. for about two years, we had someone working on wG8 full time. right now we don't. I don't know what else to say. | 18:34 |
| +danny_mk | ckotil: It would be great if we had WebGUI::Form::Dynamic::Datatable component | 18:34 |
| @scrottie | and yeah, the main reaction to 8 was "you're not going to make us run that, right?" | 18:35 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: Yup, I read that post. I gotit. | 18:35 |
| +danny_mk | Whos reaction was that? | 18:35 |
| +danny_mk | I am actually looking forward to 8 | 18:35 |
| @scrottie | client. people here, when it was announced. | 18:35 |
| +danny_mk | People always complain about these changes but I believe 8 will eventually win them over | 18:36 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk: well, 8 is out, but no one really tested it during beta. the internal APIs are pretty well tested but the UI is a bit of a mess. | 18:36 |
| +danny_mk | Yup, I reported some bugs | 18:37 |
| @scrottie | yeah. I started working on some, and then pulled into other things. I haven't looked for "bugs into WebGUI beta" on the main tracker, only the wG8 tracker. | 18:37 |
| @scrottie | I think 8 kind of got pushed out the door without any fanfare after a long period of no testing and no feedback. | 18:38 |
| +danny_mk | Once bug #12316 is fixed I will work on a Chat object, which I badly need | 18:39 |
| +danny_mk | WHAT? | 18:39 |
| @scrottie | hmm? | 18:39 |
| @scrottie | wG8 was in beta for ages. the only bugs I saw were ones already there, about things like "replace GD with another image library", and install problems/questions. | 18:40 |
| +danny_mk | Do you mean 8 is dead? dying? | 18:40 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, that's not exactly what I said. | 18:40 |
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| @scrottie | no testing and no feedback during its beta | 18:41 |
| @scrottie | I personally took that as a lack of interest. I'm glad that I'm hearing noises now about people being interested in it, but I've got a lot of work to do on it and could really use some help (and for projects to stay calm) | 18:41 |
| +danny_mk | OK, my only problem with helping is that I have not been a good "test" writer. I do testing by using breakpoints, logging, etc... | 18:43 |
| @scrottie | how's your JS? | 18:43 |
| +danny_mk | decent | 18:43 |
| @scrottie | it seems like most of the work this point is in the whiz-bang JS admin. | 18:44 |
| sbaur | thanks ckotil | 18:44 |
| +danny_mk | yui? | 18:44 |
| @scrottie | I'd love to learn more about JS and get some JS test framework going so I could test that thing (or else replace it wish something simple... geesh) but even just having the bugs fixed even if they're liable to regress later would be huge | 18:45 |
| sbaur | scrottie, last I heard teh WRE was not ready for 8, without that, testing, for me at least, is not very feasible | 18:46 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: you mean like http://seleniumhq.org/ | 18:47 |
| @scrottie | sbaur, you can run wG8 on the current and many older WREs. it doesn't use the Apache httpd included with it, but it does use perl, the modules, and MySQL. setup is a bit more manual than wre+wg7 but there are instructions. | 18:47 |
| sbaur | hmmm, ok that wasn't very clear to me... | 18:48 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, or testafy.com. I guess I'm not sure what I'm thinking of. that's probably the best way to do JS unit tests, but I keep imagining that someone has a spidermonkey running at the command line with a DOM built in to it, and a test framework that emits TAP output | 18:48 |
| sbaur | is anyone planning on putting a vm image together for 8? | 18:48 |
| +danny_mk | We made one available, whatever happened to that? | 18:49 |
| +danny_mk | I have one ready but need a place to host it if you are interested | 18:49 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, it's still on the forum. | 18:49 |
| ckotil | selenium, isn't that the active ingredient in Head and Shoulders? or was at the time when we defeated the alien invasion | 18:49 |
| @scrottie | I thought I threw it onto my machine here. | 18:49 |
| @scrottie | ckotil, inorite! that thing scares the crud out of me. | 18:49 |
| ckotil | :0 | 18:50 |
| ckotil | I ran wg8 in wre 0.9.1 | 18:50 |
| @scrottie | it's this big GUI beast that embeds a web browser and generates code from your actions on the site (clicking, etc) | 18:50 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: pick one thing I can help with, assign it to me and let me work on it. Maybe something 8 related at the end of your list. | 18:50 |
| ckotil | looks sweet. | 18:50 |
| +danny_mk | I was using Dancer to build a Chat framework that I can then move into WebGUI | 18:51 |
| +danny_mk | but I can help move 8 forward if it helps | 18:52 |
| sbaur | we use selenium to test our sites. It's the only thing that makes me at all confident that nothing major broke when I update something. Minor things can and do still get through. and it's a pain when my content people change content that I'm testing for... | 18:52 |
| +danny_mk | sbaur: maybe you can give us a quick lesson using selenium? | 18:53 |
| sbaur | I'm only using the IDE which is not where the cool stuff is | 18:54 |
| +danny_mk | OK | 18:54 |
| sbaur | but it creates really simple html. The first couple of stanzas of one of our tests - http://pastebin.com/UZi6Ur4P | 18:56 |
| sbaur | and the IDE has a firefox plugin for recording your actions. and you can use it to manually add commands/comments to yoru tests | 18:57 |
| sbaur | your* | 18:57 |
| ckotil | saw that. sounds prtty cool | 18:58 |
| ckotil | could you use this as a dead link checker? not that you would, just wondering. | 18:58 |
| +danny_mk | Looks pretty simple | 18:58 |
| sbaur | depends. It's definitely limited to one site, but one of our tests is along the lines of Click a link, wait for the page to load, check the title. if it doesn't get to that page, the title check fails | 18:59 |
| sbaur | so yes, in a way it is a dead link checker | 19:00 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, I'm doing up a bug report on the UI, but if you want to figure out how to get that running, that would be super awesome. | 19:00 |
| @scrottie | ckotil, is it useful for testing heavy JS UIs? | 19:00 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: what exactly, you mean the entire UI? Admin functions? what? | 19:00 |
| sbaur | One of the things i did was add a check to every page for the phrase "The asset this shortcut is linked to no longer exists. You need to delete this shortcut." | 19:01 |
| @scrottie | admin functions, mostly, danny_mk | 19:01 |
| sbaur | it fails if it finds that phrase | 19:01 |
| @scrottie | the whole site wasn't heavily JS-ified, just the admin | 19:01 |
| sbaur | that's saved us a few times | 19:01 |
| @scrottie | sbaur++ # nice | 19:02 |
| @scrottie | afer I finish hobbling this ticket together, I'll create one for selenium testing | 19:03 |
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| @scrottie | http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/12371 | 19:15 |
| @scrottie | http://www.webgui.org/community/webgui-8/issues/12372 ... that's yours ;) | 19:18 |
| @scrottie | feel free to bug me about it. I'm half tempted anyway to google "javascript TAP" | 19:18 |
| @scrottie | and see what comes up. | 19:18 |
| @scrottie | and I vaguely remember a DOM implementation for spidermonkey written in pure JS. | 19:18 |
| @scrottie | I think I'm going to be spending the whole morning poking at various ticket trackers. whee! | 19:19 |
| @scrottie | first, I gotta water plants. | 19:19 |
| ckotil | scrottie: probably | 19:20 |
| +danny_mk | sorry, I had to logout because I was installing the selenium ide. Who was the one that used selenium before? Was that ckotil? | 19:22 |
| ckotil | sbaur does | 19:23 |
| +danny_mk | It was pretty easy to create a login test for WebGUI8, I imagine we need a naming convention for the tests, a place to store them and instructions to run them. | 19:23 |
| +danny_mk | I have been wanting to create some youtube videos for WebGUI, maybe creating a selenium video for testing WebGUI8 would be a good place to start | 19:24 |
| sbaur | danny, that was me | 19:24 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, do you have an account on github? probably makes the most sense to store them with the source code to wG8 (which is now the 'master' branch of github.com/plainblack/webgui) | 19:25 |
| +danny_mk | sbaur: What type of test would I write to test the link "Turn Admin On!" just to make sure its on the page | 19:25 |
| @scrottie | if you do have a github account, go to that url and click the link to "fork" the project, then use git to check out the read/write URL it gives you, throw files in there, git add them, git commit them, git push them... | 19:25 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: I need a naming convention | 19:25 |
| @scrottie | I can help with all of that. | 19:25 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: I have a github account | 19:25 |
| @scrottie | cool beans | 19:26 |
| +danny_mk | https://github.com/dannymk | 19:26 |
| @scrottie | hearing the word "git" makes a lot of people freak out, and rightfully so. | 19:26 |
| @scrottie | naming convention... hrm. | 19:26 |
| +danny_mk | I am still learning it but there are some good youtube videos on it | 19:27 |
| @scrottie | emulate the existing structure in t ? | 19:27 |
| @scrottie | youtube videos on git? craziness. I never would have thought to look there. | 19:27 |
| sbaur | danny_mk: That's simple. Open a new test, make sure the record button is set, click into your webgui site's window, right click the Turn admin on link and choose "assertElementPresent link=Turn Admin On" from the right click menu | 19:27 |
| +danny_mk | excellent, let me test that | 19:28 |
| @scrottie | maybe make a new top level directory in the repo... name it 'selenium' or 'uit' or whatever catches your fancy (people can always bikeshed later) | 19:28 |
| +danny_mk | sbaur: I know I have to read documentation, however how do I save these test to run later? Can I save them to a file for use by someone else? | 19:32 |
| sbaur | when you are in the selenium IDE window, just go to the file menu and choose save test as... | 19:32 |
| +danny_mk | OK, so should I name the tests: WebGUI8-Login.t | 19:32 |
| +danny_mk | WebGUI8-TurnAdminOn.t | 19:33 |
| +danny_mk | etc... | 19:33 |
| sbaur | you may want to name them with an .html extension | 19:33 |
| sbaur | at least we found that worked better when moving between windows and mac | 19:33 |
| sbaur | danny_mk: you can also create test suites to group your tests... | 19:35 |
| +danny_mk | sbaur: OK, explain how to group tests | 19:35 |
| sbaur | The IDE is not so great at creating those though. We find it easier to create the suites by hand, but the new version may be better, haven't had to create a new suite in a while | 19:36 |
| sbaur | File -- New Test Suite | 19:36 |
| +danny_mk | OK, that helps | 19:37 |
| @scrottie | 'WebGUI8' in the name is going to be redundant | 19:37 |
| @scrottie | I wouldn't | 19:37 |
| @scrottie | they don't appear in the 7 repo at all, so no need to distinguish them, and everything in the 8 repo might some day become known as "WebGUI9" | 19:38 |
| sbaur | danny, i'll give you an example suite just as soon as pastebin let's me in | 19:38 |
| +danny_mk | sbaur: got first test done, that tool works great. | 19:38 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: OK, selenium it is | 19:39 |
| +danny_mk | I will call the directory selenium | 19:39 |
| +danny_mk | then I will send a pull request | 19:39 |
| +danny_mk | Let me get a few of these tests done | 19:40 |
| +danny_mk | I don't like the "recursive" turn admin on of the UI | 19:40 |
| +danny_mk | I have to get something to eat or I am going to pass out, I will talk to you guys after I come back from lunch. | 19:41 |
| sbaur | check the source on http://www.csumathsuccess.org/selenium/tests/Suite-ESW-RM2009-01.html, that's one of our old test suites | 19:41 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, yeah, I don't like that either. the admin is implemented right now as a frameset(!!) | 19:42 |
| @scrottie | the idea is that you can navigate around the site in one frame while the admin doesn't have to reload in the other | 19:42 |
| @scrottie | I would really like to see that done differently, but I'm not sure exactly how. | 19:43 |
| @scrottie | maybe the admin should go into a whole different tab/window... just pop up a window... when you click that link. | 19:44 |
| @scrottie | target="_top" on the frameset would actually be a quick fix for the current design, though | 19:44 |
| +danny_mk | sbaur: one thing that is interesting for these tests is that depending on the template picked by the user at installation the test will either pass or fail. For example the underground template uses a link for login while other templates use a login button. | 21:20 |
| +danny_mk | of course we can always start with a default installation and write tests to install a standard template for testing | 21:20 |
| sbaur | very true. It may be a good idea to somehow limit these tests to the default install. | 21:20 |
| * scrottie nods | 21:25 | |
| +danny_mk | Hmmm... there is no default design selection during installation. It is an unchecked radio button. What do you guys think is the default? Style 03? | 21:32 |
| @scrottie | no idea. almost all of my wG experience is coming into existing large projects built with it. | 21:33 |
| @scrottie | it's kind of sad how lopsided my experience is. | 21:33 |
| +danny_mk | LOL | 21:33 |
| sbaur | I say use style03 | 21:34 |
| +danny_mk | I will choose the underground style, it seems to be pretty clean | 21:34 |
| @scrottie | what design is the default in 7? seems like when I fire up 8 *without* the site starter, it has a style... I could check which if it helps... probably should go for the same | 21:34 |
| sbaur | or underground, just pick one and document with a comment, that it was picked | 21:34 |
| +danny_mk | style03 | 21:34 |
| +danny_mk | style03 it is | 21:34 |
| @scrottie | getting ready to book a flight or bus to DEFCON (sadly, no Amtrak route). a couple of years ago, one talk was on datamining commit messages and WebGUI provided a goldmine for them. | 21:47 |
| @scrottie | so if anyone wants to kick it at DEFCON, get wit' me, yo. | 21:48 |
| @scrottie | it would be fun to have a booze fueled wG hack-a-thon. | 21:49 |
| +danny_mk | scrottie: is that in Vegas? | 21:53 |
| @scrottie | danny_mk, yeah. | 21:53 |
| +danny_mk | darnit, I have lots of fun when I go there. | 21:54 |
| +danny_mk | hmmm... tempting | 21:54 |
| @scrottie | I don't gamble but a previous job was programming video slots and video poker. The other progarmmer didn't gamble either. clubs are too expensive and not very good. no music worth a damn. personally, I think Vegas stinks. | 21:55 |
| @scrottie | also, it's too much like Phoenix, where I'm currently at =P | 21:56 |
| +danny_mk | hmmm... we travel in different circles... LOL, I always have fun when I go there. | 21:56 |
| @scrottie | Portland or Seattle or Austin or Tucson is more my scene. | 22:01 |
| ckotil | It's hard not to have fun in Vegas | 22:11 |
| ckotil | and easy to spend money | 22:11 |
| @scrottie | depends on what you consider fun, I guess. | 22:17 |
| @scrottie | most fun thing I've ever done in Vegas is go to a conference =P | 22:18 |
| ckotil | rumor is that you party like a rockstar at conferences tho | 22:20 |
| ckotil | danny_mk and I must party hard while in vegas | 22:20 |
| @scrottie | haha | 22:27 |
| @scrottie | twice I've been drinking with trout and then made it to the conference earlier the next day than he did | 22:28 |
| @scrottie | once they kept the bar open for us all night and poured us free drinks. that was *epic*. | 22:29 |
| @scrottie | hole in the wall joint with Dogfishhead 90 on tap. dangerous, dangerous stuff. | 22:29 |
| @scrottie | whoever was paying for the nightclub at this last YAPC, I'd like to shake their hand. I killed a lot of their scotch. | 22:31 |
| ckotil | yeah, that's a heavy IPA | 22:31 |
| ckotil | nice | 22:31 |
| CIA-69 | webgui: Colin Kuskie webgui-7.10 * rdc4f813 / lib/WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Survey.pm : Fixes to make WebGUI compatible with newer perls. - http://git.io/tMllig | 23:24 |
| CIA-69 | wrebuild: Colin Kuskie wre7 * r328a26d / wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl : Finish Koen's work of having PID files in var/run instead of var/logs - http://git.io/uq9caA | 23:34 |
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| --- Day changed Sat Jun 30 2012 | ||
| CIA-69 | wrebuild: root wre7 * rc4ffc54 / build.sh : Build aspell as part of the utilities. - http://git.io/cQkbrw | 01:05 |
| CIA-69 | wrebuild: perldreamer wre7 * ref1d61d / wre/sbin/wreconsole.pl : Merge branch 'wre7' of github.com:plainblack/wrebuild into wre7 - http://git.io/zDBqOQ | 01:05 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jul 01 00:00:46 2012 | ||
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