WebGUI irc logs from: 2007-12.log

--- Log opened Sat Dec 01 00:00:26 2007
--- Day changed Sat Dec 01 2007
perlmonkey2	funny to think how much duplicated work there is in the world. How many companies spend hundreds of thousands paying developers to front end databases and create reports when they could use WebGUI (or another less worthy CMS).	00:00
@apeiron	You could say that about innovating a pre-WebGUI CMS, though, or a pre-Perl language. :)	00:01
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perlmonkey2	apeiron: But these companies are rolling their own custom implementations.	00:02
perlmonkey2	which they aren't trying to sell, but just use themselves.	00:02
@apeiron	Not always the best idea, I'll agree, but reinventing the wheel allows you to make it rounder. :)	00:03
perlmonkey2	apeiron: I'd say that only happens when a badarse who knows every inch of the wheel sets down to do it. When people who need a wheel because they're interested in doing X reinvent the wheel, it is likely to be sqaure.	00:08
perlmonkey2	PlainBlack basic server has 512MB ram. How many moderating active sites could one WebGUI instances run on 512MB?	00:45
perlmonkey2	s/moderating/moderatively/	00:45
@preaction	10 would probably be the max	00:47
@preaction	and they'd be slow	00:47
@preaction	5-7 would be fine i bet	00:47
@preaction	i forget the stats, but we've got one server running 20+	00:47
perlmonkey2	that is actually better than I thought	00:48
perlmonkey2	so $300/month could handle 5 easily.	00:48
perlmonkey2	I likey	00:48
@preaction	i wouldn't say easily, but then i'm used to working on more complicated systems than WebGUI Core	00:48
@preaction	systems with 20,000 users, incredible database queries that make mysql wet itself, etc...	00:49
@preaction	if we're talking something like THAT, i'd suggest load balancing cluster	00:49
* perlmonkey2 was supposed to get 1 month off to hack on WebGUI but after 3 days off they now want me back at 200%. They want me 100% on two grants at the same time.		00:49
@preaction	plainblack.com runs on one of our mega servers, iirc	00:50
perlmonkey2	preaction: you working with Oracle's CMS?	00:50
@preaction	no, WebGUI	00:50
@preaction	custom dev	00:50
perlmonkey2	hah, right on	00:50
perlmonkey2	sounds like fun	00:51
@preaction	it can be, when it's not being not fun	00:51
@preaction	there are some strange brews out there in the world of wG custom dev	00:52
perlmonkey2	people really fork the core components that much?	00:52
@preaction	no, add-ons	00:55
@preaction	assets, workflow activities, auth plugis	00:55
perlmonkey2	ah, right on	00:56
@preaction	instead of forking core components that don't do what they want, we extend them (or rewrite them)	00:56
perlmonkey2	that woudl be fun	00:57
@preaction	eh, there are some projects i fight to get, and others i "decide" are "better for Joe Developer to handle"	01:01
@preaction	it's a factor of how many fun problems exist to be solved	01:01
perlmonkey2	that's true enough	01:02
@preaction	example: The client wanted a photo gallery asset (more targeted than the Photo Gallery Collaboration prototype), so I get to make a photo gallery asset to add to WebGUI	01:04
perlmonkey2	that's interesting. you rip off a lot of code from Gallery2?	01:07
@preaction	nope	01:07
@preaction	it's actually a fairly simple system, didn't need to rip anything from anywhere	01:08
perlmonkey2	bah, I need to quit my job and do that kind of stuff. sounds a lot more fun.	01:08
@preaction	the additional constraint of 100% test coverage and "An example of WebGUI Best Practices" has made this take longer, but that's good. i'm writing good, clean, maintainable, readable, extensible code instead of slop	01:09
perlmonkey2	hah, slop usually isn't very maintainable :P	01:09
@preaction	this is my job, plainblack pays me. in order to make it here i worked two jobs (one as a plainblack contractor) until a spot opened up for me	01:09
perlmonkey2	and writing it maintable doesn't take much longer once you get used to it.	01:09
perlmonkey2	nice	01:10
@preaction	no, it's forming good habits, but there are some OO tricks and API design flaws that you only find once you actually have to use the API to do something	01:10
@preaction	i consider programming to be an art form, as such i tend to act more like an artist than i do a scientist	01:11
@preaction	and, before plainblack hired me, that means subsidizing myself with menial labor	01:11
perlmonkey2	ack	01:12
perlmonkey2	menial labor	01:12
@preaction	i found that the most monotonous jobs tended to create the best environment for ideas of code i should write	01:14
perlmonkey2	I usually have all my best ideas when I'm not doing work that requires thinking.	01:14
perlmonkey2	so that makes sense.	01:14
perlmonkey2	alright, chow time...I'm out	01:15
@preaction	i've got little notebooks full of game ideas, APIs, pseudo-code for software to help manage things like my TV collection and Warhammer 40k armies	01:15
@preaction	have fun	01:15
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CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5073 /WebGUI/t/Spectre/Workflow.t: avoid running this test unless we have WRE installed	02:33
CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5074 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/Spectre/Workflow.t: backport fix for not running under the WRE	02:33
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dirtyPair	salutations	05:53
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+perlDreamer	hola	06:32
+perlDreamer	you still there?	06:32
+perlDreamer	dirtyPair: What's up?	06:36
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+perlDreamer	preaction: I know kung-fu!	06:55
@preaction	perlDreamer, show me	06:55
+perlDreamer	check ren 5075	06:56
+perlDreamer	rev 5075	06:56
+perlDreamer	in HEAD	06:56
@preaction	that	06:58
@preaction	is	06:58
@preaction	AWESOME	06:58
+perlDreamer	thanks	06:58
+perlDreamer	That was half of yesterday and all of this evening	06:59
+perlDreamer	It still needs some more work to handle the stuff that is causing i18n/label.t to fail	06:59
+perlDreamer	but it shouldn't be that hard	06:59
+perlDreamer	With this, we can do anything	06:59
@preaction	indeed	06:59
+perlDreamer	We can make sure that all class methods always get a session object	07:00
+perlDreamer	I don't even know what else we need to do, but it's now possible	07:00
@preaction	do you want to add an additional check to make sure that no calls to WebGUI::International::echo make it into a production system?	07:00
+perlDreamer	Sure	07:01
@preaction	are you going to change some of the existing i18n tests to use PPI / Perl::Critic tests?	07:01
+perlDreamer	Yes	07:02
+perlDreamer	label.t will be a P::C test	07:02
@preaction	sweet	07:02
+perlDreamer	probably a few more as well	07:02
+perlDreamer	things we don't necessarily want an end user to run, but that we want as a double check for us	07:02
@preaction	indeed	07:02
+perlDreamer	all of i18n looks good, and Help, too	07:03
CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5075 /WebGUI/t/lib/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Perl::Critic module for checking illegal i18n labels	07:03
@preaction	i was thinking before about the tests taking too long to run before a commit, perhaps there should be a way for testCodebase.pl to get targets, like "base" "form" "i18n" "help" "assets" "workflow" etc...?	07:03
+perlDreamer	the CODE_COP switch does a little of that now	07:04
+perlDreamer	but we could break it farther apart	07:04
+perlDreamer	it's actually a pretty big topic in the community right now	07:06
+perlDreamer	You'll probably start noticing a lot of $ENV{AUTHOR} showing up in tests	07:06
@preaction	why?	07:07
+perlDreamer	That's the flag people seem to be setting on	07:07
+perlDreamer	Authors run all tests, like Perl::Critic and such	07:07
+perlDreamer	but end users should never get source code that fails those tests	07:07
+perlDreamer	so they'll run API and functionality tests	07:07
+perlDreamer	http://search.cpan.org/src/THALJEF/Test-Perl-Critic-1.01/README	07:08
@preaction	i suppose, there are more than a few distros on CPAN that need to be force installed for stupid reasons	07:08
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CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5076 /WebGUI/t/Asset/Asset.t: Add tests for the tempspace node.	07:33
+perlDreamer	preaction: I added the 4 assetId's I know of to magic numbers	07:34
+perlDreamer	that's a great page, btw	07:34
@preaction	sweet, thanks	07:34
@preaction	i thought so, i've been racked trying to keep track of them all	07:34
@preaction	some aren't really "magic", they're just there. but all the things that webgui doesn't let you delete...	07:35
+perlDreamer	yeah, some are more "tribal knowledge"	07:35
+perlDreamer	admin = 3	07:35
@preaction	Everyone = group 7, Visitor = 1	07:36
@preaction	etc...	07:36
+perlDreamer	right	07:36
@preaction	i've been wondering if it's possible to use PPI to write things that will generate i18n and Help modules for me	07:36
+perlDreamer	there's already a script for i18n modules	07:37
@preaction	really?	07:37
+perlDreamer	yeah!	07:37
+perlDreamer	You didn't know about it?	07:37
@preaction	nope	07:37
+perlDreamer	that's why I invented echo	07:37
@preaction	i've been using vim macros, re-generating the macro every time i need to make an i18n module :(	07:38
+perlDreamer	weird	07:38
+perlDreamer	I don't see in in the contribs area	07:38
+perlDreamer	I'll add it now	07:39
+perlDreamer	but it should be rewritten to use PPI instead in the long term	07:39
@preaction	sounds great (incidentally a day or two after i needed it ;)	07:39
@preaction	indeed	07:39
@preaction	PPI could be used to do detect processTemplate as well, thusly getting a datastructure and generating Help modules	07:40
@preaction	i think JT was talking about these sort of things before, code generation like RoR seems to have in spades	07:40
@preaction	i wonder what happened with his asset skeleton generator script	07:40
+perlDreamer	RoR does help and i18n generation for you?	07:40
@preaction	no, but it does skeleton generation things i think	07:41
@preaction	i dunno, i just know what JT said about it	07:41
@preaction	perlDreamer, i found it, in misc as "i18n.pl"	07:44
+perlDreamer	yup, that's it	07:45
+perlDreamer	there's one more caveat that should be documented	07:45
+perlDreamer	it overwrites your source code with s/->echo/->get/	07:45
@preaction	that could be a project for that google high school of code thing, code generation tools	07:46
@preaction	or, a way to have inheritable i18n objects, that'd be nice too	07:47
+perlDreamer	inheritable i18n objects?	07:47
+perlDreamer	oh, like inheritable Help objects	07:47
@preaction	so that we can reuse things like "save" and "cancel", but they could also be overridden if the language demands it	07:47
CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5077 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/t/Asset/Asset.t: backporting tempspace constructor check from head	07:48
+perlDreamer	I thought it worked that way now	07:48
+perlDreamer	if it can't find save in the current language pack, it looks back in English	07:48
@preaction	i18n/Base.pm would have "save" and "cancel", i18n/Asset_Gallery.pm would inherit from there and, if Swedish needed it, they could override i Asset_Gallery.pm	07:49
@preaction	it has a sort of inheritence by language, but it'd be nice to have a set of Common words / phrases that we could inherit from	07:49
+perlDreamer	Base.pm == WebGUI.pm	07:49
@preaction	right, but WebGUI.pm contains a bunch of stuff that may or may not be needed in Base.pm	07:50
@preaction	but i suppose it wouldn't hurt, it could help with memory usage too (at a minor expense of hash lookups)	07:50
+perlDreamer	Maybe WebGUI.pm just needs to be pared down farther so that it makes a more suitable Base.pm	07:51
+perlDreamer	In the beginning, there were no namespaces	07:51
+perlDreamer	Everything was flat.	07:51
@preaction	exactly	07:51
@preaction	i imagine that could be done as well	07:51
+perlDreamer	that wasn't any fun	07:52
@preaction	the inheritence wouldn't be too hard, i believe Help does it alredy, no?	07:52
+perlDreamer	Yes.	07:52
@preaction	you added that iirc	07:52
+perlDreamer	Yes	07:52
+perlDreamer	In fact, it would be simpler since there are no loops	07:52
@preaction	indeed	07:52
+perlDreamer	I had to write a recursive function for that	07:52
@preaction	it'd just need an "inherits" class-scoped variable	07:53
@preaction	or isa or whatevz	07:53
@preaction	isa could work	07:53
@preaction	might be a perversion of @ISA though	07:53
+perlDreamer	it would also simplify the International interface	07:53
+perlDreamer	since get calls would never need to access a foreign namespace	07:54
@preaction	like the fact there are two i18n objects instanciated in some of the WebGUI auth methods	07:55
@preaction	probably more than just there, even	07:55
@preaction	i hesitate to screw around too much with i18n though, since it would mean a whole bunch of translations would need updating	07:56
@preaction	i mean, not all the "save" buttons use the same "save" i18n label	07:56
@preaction	so we might not be able to carve a swath of destruction at this point in time, unfortunately	07:56
+perlDreamer	once you knew the final form of the new i18n, you could script the changes to all translations	07:57
+perlDreamer	since the keys are always in English :)	07:57
@preaction	of course	07:57
+perlDreamer	what has you up late hacking tonight?	07:58
@preaction	perhaps then we should add a $I18N_VERSION class-scoped variable so we know which translations have been migrated to the new interface?	07:58
@preaction	i've been thinking a lot about using $VERSION and other flags to have API versioning	07:58
@preaction	a sort of progressive enhancement for the WebGUI API	07:59
@preaction	oh, it's only midnight, trying to get more stuff done on the Gallery. i'm up to 4 pages done out of 12	07:59
@preaction	rest should be done by end of next week, and then week after that i have to try to clean up what i can before release	07:59
@preaction	Interesting thing about WebGUI #708: When passing in the "action" URL to WebGUI::Form::formHeader, it will DWYM if the URL contains a query string (?func=something will change into <input type="hidden" name="func" value="something" />)	08:06
+perlDreamer	I bet that's legacy compatibility code	08:08
@preaction	probably, but it's also a nice feature since a lot of forms are submitted to func=something pages	08:09
@preaction	i've been making the hidden elements myself, but apparently i don't have to	08:09
+perlDreamer	it _does_ save a call to hidden	08:10
+perlDreamer	I've been doing the same.	08:10
@preaction	not really, it calls hidden itself. it's just cleaner code	08:10
+perlDreamer	do you mean cleaner to have the explicit call, or the cleaner via the url?	08:10
@preaction	via the url	08:11
@preaction	easier to read, imho	08:11
@preaction	shorter to write as well	08:11
@preaction	part of those "good habits"	08:11
+perlDreamer	Definitely, but it reminds me of "mystery meat". It has weird side effects.	08:11
@preaction	how so? it DWYM	08:12
@preaction	i mean, some servers/browsers understand query strings in the action="" attribute, but most don't that i know of	08:12
+perlDreamer	It's undocumented. That's the mystery. But that's also easily fixable :)	08:12
@preaction	i've fixed it already	08:12
+perlDreamer	committed?	08:13
@preaction	i also fixed that sub and commented the code while i was at it	08:13
@preaction	it's in my branch, so it'll be committed when i merge	08:13
* perlDreamer mutters "patience, patience" to himself		08:13
@preaction	indeed	08:13
+perlDreamer	was something else broken about it?	08:14
@preaction	nope	08:14
+perlDreamer	I need a patron to support me so I can write test code and fix wG bugs 40/hours week.	08:14
@preaction	oh, i added some parameter checking and a call to croak, because i'm starting to get very annoyed at seeing errors in code i have never touched	08:14
+perlDreamer	that's good	08:14
+perlDreamer	WGBP (and Perl::Critic) will mandate croaking	08:15
+perlDreamer	well, I think there's a no-die policy in Perl::Critic	08:16
@preaction	would it be simpler to simply write: my $value = $options->{ value } \|\|= "default"; than to write a bunch of ternary conditionals on the existence of that options hashref?	08:18
+perlDreamer	I like the exists check better, because it won't autovivify that key in the hash	08:19
@preaction	my $action = $params && $params->{ action } ? $params->{ action } : $session->url->page(); <- seems verbose to me	08:19
+perlDreamer	_and_ it doesn't alter the hashref that got passed to you	08:19
@preaction	ah, that would be bad	08:19
+perlDreamer	yeah, like MrHairGrease found out in Post.pm	08:20
@preaction	i defaulted $params to an empty hashref now, so i don't have to check that $params exists, just if the key exists	08:20
@preaction	so exists instead of $param->{ value } \|\| "default"? <- that'll autovivify too?	08:21
@preaction	i think we fixed the Post.pm at the source: $asset->get returns a copy no matter what now	08:21
+perlDreamer	right	08:22
+perlDreamer	my understanding is that calling a hash with any key will autovivify it	08:22
@preaction	humph, better safe then	08:22
+perlDreamer	well, might be worth double checking	08:22
+perlDreamer	I'm not on p5p anymore	08:22
+perlDreamer	it may have changed	08:22
@preaction	personal question: how does one wade through the insanity that is perlmonks?	08:24
@preaction	i tried the RSS feed, but there's no way to handle that influx of data	08:24
+perlDreamer	I have no idea. I've never done it :/	08:24
+perlDreamer	I think the ->echo check wants to be a separate policy	08:25
+perlDreamer	but it needs to subclass the NoIllegalI18NLabels to get the convenience methods	08:28
+perlDreamer	either that, or I need my own Utility module	08:28
@preaction	i think you're right about the legacy code thing, there's something screwy going on here	08:28
@preaction	perlbot paste	08:28
perlbot	Paste your code to http://sial.org/pbot/perl http://erxz.com/pb or http://p3m.org/pfn/perl and #Perl will be able to view it.	08:28
@preaction	http://sial.org/pbot/28954 <- what is line 147 doing?	08:29
@preaction	more appropriate: why?	08:29
+perlDreamer	You may want to run Perl::Critic on pre-release code, and not have it gripe about echo calls	08:29
+perlDreamer	So a separate module allows overriding via the dev's local policy file	08:30
@preaction	oh, no, i agree with you on the PC echo tests being lower priority than the other one	08:30
@preaction	i mean my paste, there's something screwy going on	08:30
+perlDreamer	line 147 find the first string 'amp;' and strips it out	08:31
+perlDreamer	it should strip out &	08:31
+perlDreamer	that would be better, otherwise there's a partial encoding left over	08:32
+perlDreamer	I'd recommend writing tests against the original code to make sure your refactoring doesn't add/subtract side effects	08:32
@preaction	it also will never contain a ;, since you already split on them	08:33
@preaction	can't write a test until i know what it's doing, and it looks like it's doing nothing at all	08:33
@preaction	besides that it's broken and doesn't understand that & can also be used to separate parameters, and that HTML Entities are not used in URLs (they're URL encoded)	08:34
@preaction	so imma fix it, and write tests against it fixed	08:34
+perlDreamer	Imma gonna crash out	08:34
+perlDreamer	This weekend I'll continue hacking on the new policy	08:35
+perlDreamer	'night	08:35
@preaction	night	08:35
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CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5078 /WebGUI/t/Storage/Image.t:	06:18
CIA-18	WebGUI: Rewrite the adjustMaxFilesize test to be data driven.	06:18
CIA-18	WebGUI: Check the original sizes, and resized sizes exactly.	06:18
CIA-18	WebGUI: Hoping that this fixes last night's Image.t test failure.	06:18
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leopardus	what is the function of ImportNode?	15:17
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CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5079 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Session.pm: ran perlcritic -stern on Session.pm. Fixed a few things that it recommends. Session.pm was clean for -gentle	04:18
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CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5080 /WebGUI/t/lib/Perl/Critic/Policy/WebGUI/NoIllegalI18NLabels.pm:	08:03
CIA-18	WebGUI: Remove debugging code.	08:03
CIA-18	WebGUI: Add in code to actually check the label in the requested namespace.	08:03
CIA-18	WebGUI: Now the problem becomes how to get all the right paths to	08:03
CIA-18	WebGUI: the right modules.	08:03
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leopardus	http://www.webgui.org is not coming up!!	08:58
leopardus	ok, now ;)	08:59
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@preaction	good morning happy people!	21:02
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dirtyPair	anyone around?	21:38
@preaction	yesm	21:42
dirtyPair	pm please	21:45
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@preaction	for what purpose? there's nothing that i can help you with that you can't ask the channel	21:56
@preaction	anything that would require PM is probably something for a professional	21:57
dirtyPair	my understanding is that this is the chan of professionals behind webgui?	21:58
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@preaction	this is a channel for developers and users to get help from the community	21:58
@preaction	paid support (from plainblack, for example) has its own forum (and in the case of plainblack, phone system)	21:59
dirtyPair	is that a plainblack chan?	22:00
dirtyPair	is there	22:00
nuba	this is a place where people involved with/interested in webgui hangout	22:00
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@preaction	if you want plainblack support, you need to go to plainblack's support forum, and that costs money	22:00
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dirtyPair	i am interested in hiring a team of webgui professionals, please direct me to the right place	22:00
@preaction	http://plainblack.com/contact_us	22:00
dirtyPair	thank you	22:00
nuba	people here do some handholding sometimes out of their own kindness and willingness to share the word about webgui ;)	22:01
dirtyPair	my project is too large for someone to do it our of kindness	22:01
dirtyPair	and i can't type	22:01
nuba	heh i see	22:02
dirtyPair	plainblack is in va?	22:02
@preaction	wisconsin	22:02
dirtyPair	telephone has va area code?	22:02
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@preaction	Skype / voicemail provider / other service maybe	22:03
dirtyPair	how is webgui different from joomla?	22:06
dirtyPair	is everyone busy or does my breath stink?	22:14
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SDuensin	Hey dirtyPair	22:21
dirtyPair	hi	22:22
@khenn	I've never used Joomla =(	22:22
SDuensin	khenn - Good for you. :-)	22:24
SDuensin	The admin interface on Joomla drives me batty.	22:24
@khenn	http://www.cmsmatrix.org you can compare the two	22:24
SDuensin	Ah! Forgot about CMS Matrix!	22:24
dirtyPair	oh wow, that's helpful	22:25
@khenn	glad I could be of service =)	22:25
dirtyPair	hmm	22:27
dirtyPair	webgui fails in commerce which is what i need it for	22:27
@khenn	we are going to be doing a major overhaul to commerce this year:	22:30
@khenn	http://www.webgui.org/webgui/roadmap	22:30
dirtyPair	2008 i assume?	22:31
@khenn	commerce is still fairly flexible. There are just a few things it won't do + the interface is lacking some of the glam it needs	22:31
@khenn	yes 2008	22:31
knowmad	dirtyPair: we use "another" system for ecommerce sites	22:40
knowmad	hoping that will change in 2008	22:40
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dirtyPair	what is it usually used for?	22:43
dirtyPair	and there is a LOT of cms software out there	22:43
knowmad	we use it for nearly any other website we create from static to CMS to custom development	22:43
knowmad	yes, the benefits of Open Source!	22:44
dirtyPair	hmm, i feel like it's overkill @_@	22:44
knowmad	here's why we chose WebGUI -- Open Source product, backed by a Company, active community with conferences, written in a language we are familiar with, extensible	22:45
dirtyPair	that's interesting, is there a cms built just for commerce?	22:45
dirtyPair	isn't joomla very similar? and it seems more popular	22:45
dirtyPair	popular meaning better support?	22:45
knowmad	we've used it for just over a year now and are very happy with our decision as are our clients; i think the upcoming features in 7.5 (see the Roadmap) will make it an even better choice	22:45
knowmad	huh? i've never seen popular = better support	22:46
knowmad	i've seen popular = bad extensions due to script kiddies making plugins	22:46
@preaction	joomla is also built on PHP, which is a poorly designed / implemented language	22:46
knowmad	but i can't speak to joomla as i've never really used it; we steered away from it b/c it was written in PHP (a subset of Perl), didn't have a company behind it as i recall and wasn't as featureful as WebGUI	22:47
@preaction	i say this as a Perl God, so ymmv	22:47
@preaction	perlbot php	22:47
perlbot	http://tnx.nl/php http://czth.net/pH/PHPSucks	22:47
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@preaction	WebGUI has more enterprise features than any other F/OSS CMS i've seen so far (drupal, joomla, mambo)	22:48
knowmad	well now there's good PHP and bad PHP	22:48
knowmad	in general though, I find more bad PHP than good PHP; it has a place but it's not my language of choice (btw, i'm not a Plain Black employee)	22:49
perlmonkey2	Yeah, WebGUI just plain rawks.	22:49
dirtyPair	webgui was recommended to me by a good fellow so i have no doubt of its power	22:49
knowmad	sounds like your choice comes down to whether you want quick and dirty or a long-term platform you can grow into	22:49
perlmonkey2	knowmad: I'd think WebGUI for both reasons.	22:51
dirtyPair	i didn't notice joomla did not have a company supporting it amist its awards and invitations from google	22:52
perlmonkey2	I have a client who just received a receipt of payment for a hosted webgui account, but there is no address or way to get to the site in the email.	22:53
dirtyPair	i am rather impatient with my project even though i have no right to be	22:53
dirtyPair	but i would prefer a long term platform	22:53
perlmonkey2	IP Address: � � � � Logged for security purposes.	22:53
perlmonkey2	Oh, that is the payment ip address.	22:54
perlmonkey2	Once a hosted account is created, how long does it normally take before the site is set up and an ip address is emailed to them?	22:56
@preaction	no more than 24 hours that i can think of, it's not my department	22:56
@preaction	perlmonkey2, did you get the new permissions for the plainblack support boards? http://plainblack.com/support	22:59
perlmonkey2	preaction: all the client received was an email saying that their payment transaction went through.	23:00
@preaction	when was that?	23:00
perlmonkey2	an hour or so ago	23:01
@preaction	yeah, Jamie will follow up on that within 24hrs.	23:03
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perlmonkey2	I'm pumped.....I got $work to back off and I'm getting 3 weeks this month to try to finish Rizen's survey module (if he hasn't farmed it out to someone else).	23:05
@khenn	I don't think he has	23:08
perlmonkey2	khenn: groovy	23:10
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wgGuest45	hello everybody	00:07
wgGuest45	this is question related to modproxy (apache)	00:07
wgGuest45	its in <newsite>.conf file	00:08
wgGuest45	the line: # deal with port number in HTTP_HOST	00:08
wgGuest45	oops read this: # deal with port number in HTTP_HOST	00:08
wgGuest45	what will this two line do?	00:09
wgGuest45	(you know this if you have WRE in your system)	00:09
@preaction	what's the other line? i only got a comment. use the pastebin in the /topic	00:11
wgGuest45	# deal with port number in HTTP_HOST	00:12
wgGuest45	RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} :80	00:12
wgGuest45	RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://%{SERVER_NAME}/$1 [P]	00:12
@preaction	again, you shouldn't paste code into the channel, use the pastebin in the topic	00:12
wgGuest45	oops..	00:13
wgGuest45	sorry	00:13
@preaction	those are the lines that proxy all requests over to the modperl instance	00:13
@preaction	well, all requests that haven't been handled yet	00:14
wgGuest45	what if i want to change that port 80 to some other port?	00:14
@preaction	also it looks broken, what version of the WRE are you working with?	00:14
@preaction	the port number should be in the RewriteRule, not the RewriteCond	00:14
wgGuest45	wre-0.8.0-unbuntu-7.0.4-feisty	00:15
@preaction	so what do you want to do exactly?	00:16
wgGuest45	i am using wre .. i just want my site host in some other port than 80(default)	00:17
@preaction	to get around ISP or to host another server on port 80?	00:18
wgGuest45	ya second option	00:20
@preaction	if you're just hosting another server on port 80, another apache server, why not use that one to proxy webgui? or why not use the modproxy of webgui to host other sites? either option would be better than a THIRD apache instance	00:21
wgGuest45	umm.. yaa..	00:22
wgGuest45	what should i do if i want to choose first option	00:23
@preaction	use another server to proxy webgui? basically copy and paste the <VirtualHost> ... </VirtualHost> block somewhere where the other server can read it	00:23
wgGuest45	just creating virtualhost will be enough?	00:23
@preaction	creating it with the same directives should be enough	00:24
@preaction	any problems that occur would be outside of the WRE, thus would have to be handled elsewhere (#apache on this network is a very good place to get help with apache)	00:24
wgGuest45	hmm.. (i should have done this before.. damn)	00:25
@preaction	otherwise, if you change that :80, yes, that will work	00:25
@preaction	but you also have to change the <VirtualHost *:80> and anywhere else that :80 pops up	00:25
@preaction	but again, now you're running three apache instances	00:25
@preaction	keeping the modperl one seperate is a Good Idea, but having two proxies in front of it? not so much	00:26
wgGuest45	what about modperl?	00:26
@preaction	what about it?	00:26
wgGuest45	oh (you just mention it)	00:26
@preaction	keeping modperl seperate is good because it loads WebGUI itself, it uses more memory/CPU and you can monitor that memory / CPU seperately, without affecting your other sites	00:28
wgGuest45	that mean i can use WRE modperl with other Apache of system?	00:28
@preaction	that's what i'm suggesting, yes	00:29
wgGuest45	ya.. thats sounds good!.. cause i have other site running on same machine.. i have to keep running all those with new WebGUI too	00:29
wgGuest45	i mean new webgui site.	00:30
@preaction	theoretically you could make your own proxy Vhosts, but WRE's modproxy includes directives to speed things up (like serving static content via the proxy and not via webgui)	00:30
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wgGuest45	i know this is problem specific to apache	01:28
wgGuest45	but when i put <virtualhost>..... to apache config	01:29
wgGuest45	its showing error.	01:29
wgGuest45	'rewrite...'	01:29
wgGuest45	its showing error on all 'rewrite .. '	01:29
wgGuest45	my apache version is Apache/2.2.4 (Ubuntu)	01:29
wgGuest45	it shows error on "RewriteEngine On"	01:30
@preaction_	you're on freenode, go to #apache	01:33
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wgGuest29	hey guys	01:59
wgGuest29	anyone got some time to help out a n00blet	01:59
wgGuest29	I recently downloaded and installed the 0.8.0 on a mac box at work - we are trying to set up webgui for a test run	02:02
wgGuest29	however - in my limited server admin experience I seem to have developed a problem	02:02
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SDuensin	Greetings.	15:50
ckotil	Good Morning.	15:51
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perlmonkey2	When creating a new Wobject to be submitted into the core objects, how are namespaces decided? In particular, if I rewrite the survey module to JT's spec, will it use something like "AjaxSurvey" or just reuse "Survey"?	18:18
perlmonkey2	And reusing "Survey" will make dev a pain in the arse	18:18
perlmonkey2	no one can help with the Wobject namespace issue?	19:13
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perlDreamer	perlmonkey2: It depends on how the upgrade from old Survey to new Survey works.	20:48
perlDreamer	Try to catch preaction, since he went through this with the EventsCalendar->Calendar upgrade	20:48
perlmonkey2	perlDreamer: Cool, thanks for the heads up.	20:49
ckotil	wG just brought a tear to my eye.	21:00
ckotil	I needed to edit by branch, and set a new meta data field.	21:00
ckotil	at first this didnt appear to be possible, then i added another meta data field. which is able to be edited by branch	21:01
ckotil	im gonna try to create customized views based on this meta data.	21:02
ckotil	now i gotta figure out how to get this metadata via a template variable	21:22
ckotil	this proved trivial for an article asset. i cant figure it out for a page layout and nav asset. Ive added a simple page variable to the nav asset in the past, but i suspect this is more difficult.	22:14
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perlDreamer	ckotil: it should be the same for any asset	22:59
ckotil	ok, ill try to add the variable to the nav asset the same way I added a page variable in the past	23:00
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perlDreamer	rizen!	23:10
@rizen	pd!	23:10
perlDreamer	What's happening the world of TMRFE?	23:10
@rizen	just got back from the hospital	23:11
@rizen	sarah had a minor procedure	23:11
@rizen	but all is well	23:11
perlDreamer	good	23:11
@rizen	working on 2008 budgets	23:11
@rizen	today	23:11
perlDreamer	Kathy just got back from New Mexico for the weekend	23:12
@rizen	cuz doing accounting stuff tomorrow	23:12
@rizen	nice	23:12
perlDreamer	I almost killed the kids, but all is well here, too	23:12
@rizen	sarah just got back from minnesota	23:12
@rizen	kathy wouldn't ever hurt anybody	23:12
@rizen	except maybe you	23:12
perlDreamer	Oh yeah, I'm dead meat	23:12
perlDreamer	She had the procedure done in Minnesota?	23:14
@rizen	no she went to see a friend this weekend	23:15
@rizen	and had the proceedure today	23:15
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@rizen	having furnace problems	23:23
@rizen	trying to find a part	23:24
CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5081 /WebGUI/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fixing handling of http:// calls in the Extras URL	23:33
perlDreamer	I keep telling you just pump the waste heat from your servers in the garage upstairs to heat your house.	23:34
perlDreamer	You're wasting a ton of money in the winter	23:34
@rizen	hehe	23:35
@rizen	i know	23:35
@rizen	i should stop pumping it into the ground	23:35
@rizen	i'm causing global warming	23:35
ckotil	from the inside	23:35
ckotil	by that logic, anyone using geothermal energy to heat their homes is an ecoterrorist	23:36
perlDreamer	Curse you WRE!	23:39
perlDreamer	$bug->swat($session);	23:46
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--- Day changed Wed Dec 05 2007
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perlDreamer	The Catalyst guys have their own advent calendar	00:57
perlDreamer	We should take Tavis's presentation and make our own. Kind of a "gift back to the community" and advertising the next WUC	00:58
@rizen	oh yeah	00:58
@rizen	advent. that's a catholic thing right?	00:58
@rizen	between ash wednesday and easter	00:59
@rizen	or good friday	00:59
perlDreamer	it's pretty generic Christian	00:59
@rizen	oh	00:59
perlDreamer	We celebrate it as Presbyterians	00:59
perlDreamer	but I don't know about the other denominations	00:59
@rizen	what's the URL to catalysts calendar?	01:00
perlDreamer	http://catalyst.perl.org/calendar/2007/2	01:00
perlDreamer	It's just a staged calendar	01:00
perlDreamer	Not cool like the Perl one	01:00
perlDreamer	http://www.perladvent.org/2006/	01:00
@rizen	why are they doing it in december	01:02
@rizen	i mean catalyst?	01:02
@rizen	advent should be march, shouldn't it?	01:02
@rizen	or ist that lent	01:02
@rizen	oh crap	01:03
@rizen	i'm an idiot	01:03
@rizen	advent is the days leading up to christmas	01:03
@rizen	it's that calendar of candy that you get when you're a kid	01:03
perlDreamer	Yup	01:04
perlDreamer	I think you could do it with an SQL Report	01:04
perlDreamer	Each row would be coordinates for the box and a link to a pop-up or secondary page.	01:05
@rizen	there are a couple of problems with it an none of them technical	01:05
@rizen	problem 1 is that we're already 4 days into the month	01:05
@rizen	problem 2 is that someone would have to write up all that crap	01:05
perlDreamer	Problem 3 is that you're out of "someones" to do crap writing	01:06
@rizen	problem 3 was implied with problem 2	01:06
perlDreamer	True. I was thinking cost vs availability	01:06
@rizen	i'm already a month behind in my dev plan	01:06
@rizen	for 7.5	01:07
perlDreamer	Is it okay to start making Perl::Critic cleanups in the 7.5 branch?	01:25
@rizen	absolutely	01:26
@rizen	start with level 1s	01:26
@rizen	which there should be very few	01:26
@rizen	cuz i did it around the time of 7.0	01:26
@rizen	and then we can keep ratcheting up the number	01:26
perlDreamer	From what I've seen so far, they don't like things like 'return undef', the mix-ins for Asset, and our open and close methods	01:26
perlDreamer	but we can wave those if we wish	01:26
perlDreamer	(the open and close methods, I mean)	01:27
perlDreamer	maybe I'll run a full report and post it for reference	01:27
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perlDreamer	well, so much for the first 219 warnings	01:58
@rizen	wow	01:59
perlDreamer	If the test suite runs clean, then I'll commit that batch	01:59
perlDreamer	It wasn't too hard....	01:59
@rizen	you absolutely roooool	01:59
perlDreamer	ack 'return undef' -l \| xargs vim	01:59
perlDreamer	I looove ack	02:00
@rizen	what does that do exactly?	02:00
perlDreamer	it builds a list of files that contain the string 'return undef', then passes that to vim	02:00
perlDreamer	vim opens them all	02:00
perlDreamer	and you bounce between files using :ne[xt] and :pr[ev]	02:00
@preaction	that... is... awesome...	02:00
@rizen	that's pretty cool	02:01
@rizen	but then what do you do	02:01
@rizen	you can't just remove return undef	02:01
@rizen	some things depend on that	02:01
perlDreamer	a bare return returns undef by default in scalar context	02:01
@rizen	ah	02:01
perlDreamer	and in list context, it returns an empty list, which is false	02:02
@rizen	nice	02:02
@rizen	that's sweet ass sweet	02:02
@rizen	you've taught me two things in 30 seconds	02:02
perlDreamer	We should have Damian Conway out to teach his vim class for the next WUC	02:03
perlDreamer	It would rock	02:03
@preaction	yes, yes it would	02:03
perlDreamer	But I'm guessing he's pretty expensive, coming from Australia and all.	02:04
@preaction	he's an aussie? did not know that	02:04
@preaction	maybe we can get Jesse to ferry him over	02:05
perlDreamer	He did an ad for the first Australian F/OSS conference	02:05
@rizen	i think his consulting rate is $500 per hour	02:05
perlDreamer	Basically it said you should come over because they have great beer and lots of poisonous animals	02:05
perlDreamer	wow	02:06
@rizen	some people at my local perl mongers group wanted me to get him to come talk at madmongers	02:07
@preaction	there's only one choice: one of us will have to become as leet as him	02:11
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perlDreamer	I nominate Jesse	02:17
perlDreamer	He's got great credentials	02:17
perlDreamer	being from the same continent	02:17
@preaction	oi!	02:18
perlDreamer	Is that a second?	02:19
@preaction	first i have to learn how to say it in Aussie	02:20
perlDreamer	Radix-wrk: since we're nominating you, you have the right to object, of course	02:21
@preaction	oath!	02:21
@rizen	it's got to be about 11:30 in the morning there	02:22
@rizen	so he's probably at work	02:22
@rizen	and can't talk	02:22
@preaction	lame	02:22
perlDreamer	preaction: I just started the Perl::Critic runs on the core for 7.5	02:38
perlDreamer	Merge soon :)	02:39
@preaction	this week and next are what i have, but it might push into the week after now: emergency situation in client site	02:39
perlDreamer	gotcha	02:39
perlDreamer	I'll try to avoid reindentation as much as possible	02:39
perlDreamer	just don't do "return undef" and you should be fine	02:40
@preaction	iirc diff/patch has an "ignore whitespace changes" option, and svn merge should have a way to pass flags to diff	02:40
perlDreamer	CIA-18 is going to puke on that commit	02:46
CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5084 /WebGUI/lib/ (92 files in 20 dirs): first round of Perl::Critic cleanups. Do not use return undef, use a bare return instead	02:48
CIA-18	WebGUI: colin * r5085 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI.pm: Perl::Critic: no code before strictures are applied	02:48
perlDreamer	'night, guys	02:49
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+Radix-wrk	What have I been nominated for?	03:06
@rizen	to become a more leet haxzor than Damian Conway	03:06
+Radix-wrk	lol	03:06
+Radix-wrk	I wish :)	03:07
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nuba	heh when i was a teenager i used to phantasize about finding some crazy sponsor that would cover my basic living expenses so that I could master some area of the human knowledge and do great stuff	03:32
nuba	become a guru	03:32
nuba	then of course reality kicked in in no time :)	03:33
@preaction	reality ruins all our fun...	03:34
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nuba	yep	03:39
nuba	i guess i'll just work my ass off, save money, retire later, then sponsor myself	03:40
nuba	oops, i mean retire early, then later sponsor myself	03:41
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CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5086 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Help/ (62 files):	06:33
CIA-44	WebGUI: Perl::Critic has a policy check for putting any code	06:33
CIA-44	WebGUI: before you apply strictures (use strict, use warnings, etc.)	06:33
CIA-44	WebGUI: Add calls to use strict to each Help module. This is probably	06:33
CIA-44	WebGUI: an overstrict interpretation of the rule.	06:33
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5087 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Help/ (61 files): correct punctuation	06:33
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5088 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/i18n/English/ (139 files): adding use strict to all these, too	06:33
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CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5089 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Workflow/Activity/CleanTempStorage.pm: Using a lexical loop variable inside recurseFileSystem.	06:48
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xdanger	does the navigation asset ignore the startpoint completely? changing it has no effect on what comes out...	15:31
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ckotil	make sure each asset is not hidden from navigatiton	16:28
ckotil	or enable show hidden assets.	16:29
ckotil	otherwise it will be problematic and appear to not work.	16:29
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wgGuest64	anyone got a moment to help me troubleshoot an issue	17:29
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perlDreamer	Perl::Critic just found a bug in A::W::HttpProxy::Parse	19:02
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5090 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (8 files in 5 dirs): all loop iterators have to be declared lexical. PBP/108	19:03
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5091 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/ (9 files in 5 dirs): no code allowed before use strict. PBP/429. This check found a bug in Asset::Wobject::HttpProxy::Parse.pm	19:03
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perlDreamer	fyi, for anyone who was around yesterday for the P::C discussion	19:24
perlDreamer	perlcritic -gentle (level 5) took 5 hours to run on my PIII dev box	19:25
perlDreamer	There are 32 non PBP errors, all of the same type. That is declaring a variable as part of a conditional. my $foo = 'bar' if $baz;	19:28
perlDreamer	Of the PBP errors, there are several small ones that I've been fixing this morning.	19:28
perlDreamer	But the biggie is Expression form of "eval" at line 124, column 5. See page 161 of PBP.	19:28
perlDreamer	We depend on that for plugins and other functionality	19:28
wgGuest64	If I make a template and put in the functions for logging into admin... and do the admintoggle is there something I need to put in to get the admin bar to come up on the left hand side of the page?	19:32
perlDreamer	Is it coming up somewhere else, or not at all?	19:33
wgGuest64	not at all	19:33
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5092 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/VersionTag.pm: Subroutine prototypes are verboten! PBP/194	19:33
perlDreamer	Does the admintoggle show up?	19:34
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perlDreamer	Any errors/warnings in your webgui.log?	19:34
wgGuest64	not sure... I'm still trying to figure out where to look next	19:34
perlDreamer	For this problem, two places	19:34
perlDreamer	1) Your webgui.log file	19:34
perlDreamer	2) Check the source for the page, and look for the admin bar in there.	19:35
perlDreamer	it could be that other markup is interfering with it	19:35
perlDreamer	Oh, you should know that while the user level part of wG works with all browsers, the Admin functions do not.	19:35
perlDreamer	Also, if you're a PlainBlack customer, you can ask this question on their support boards and they'll help you fix it.	19:36
wgGuest64	do you know the markup for the admin bar? I have been trying to use the information I found on both a webgui FAQ and on the how to give your site your own look	19:36
perlDreamer	You can get the markup from the demo site	19:36
perlDreamer	http://demo.plainblack.com	19:36
perlDreamer	just create a demo site, then log in, turn on admin and there you go!	19:37
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wgGuest64	its saying cant call "Process" on an undefined value adminbar.pm line 157	19:43
perlDreamer	In your template, what does the macro call to adminbar look like?	19:48
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wgGuest64	I found it... apparently when I was using the code from another site it said use ^adminbar(2); I removed the (2) and it works	19:54
wgGuest64	thanks for pointing me in the right direction	19:57
perlDreamer	2, by the way, is supposed to be a template id.	20:01
wgGuest64	so if I were to create a new adminbar template	20:03
wgGuest64	I would use that then	20:03
perlDreamer	right. it should be a weird looking, 22 character string	20:04
wgGuest64	any idea why it wouldnt show the login boxes? (other than the fact I probably don't have them coded right?)	20:04
perlDreamer	again, you'd need to look at the HTML code that's being generated. From your browser, try View Source	20:24
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dirtyPair	anyone around for a silly question	21:55
@preaction_	perlbot ask	21:56
perlbot	Don't ask to ask, just ask.	21:56
dirtyPair	there are a lot of auction software out there such as www.auctionanything.com that one can buy but how does one integrate that into a site?	21:57
@preaction_	you'd have to set up WebGUI to ignore that directory, put the system in your DocumentRoot, and set up apache to use a different handler for that directory and/or location	22:06
dirtyPair	i am beginning to think i don't even need webgui	22:10
@preaction_	crazy talk!	22:10
dirtyPair	i just need an auction site	22:10
dirtyPair	i can just pay someone to install and run the auction software	22:11
dirtyPair	bypass webgui	22:11
dirtyPair	and blackwhatever stopped responding to me	22:12
@rizen	do you mean plainblack?	22:12
dirtyPair	yea	22:12
@rizen	when was their last response?	22:13
dirtyPair	two days ago	22:13
dirtyPair	they are not responding	22:13
dirtyPair	they think my project is crazy	22:14
dirtyPair	and i am not serious	22:14
@rizen	2 days isn't that long	22:14
@rizen	especially if they are trying to estimate a project	22:14
dirtyPair	i think they are laughing at my project	22:14
dirtyPair	i don't blame them entirely	22:14
dirtyPair	it is crazy	22:14
dirtyPair	enough to make anyone think it's a joke	22:14
dirtyPair	doesn't matter. i already contacted another	22:15
@rizen	it's going to be expensive, whatever they come back with	22:15
dirtyPair	open source software as a business will take time to develop	22:15
@rizen	because you're talking about writing it from scratch	22:15
dirtyPair	yea	22:15
@rizen	at least from a webgui perspective	22:16
@rizen	it has commerce features	22:16
@rizen	but nothing even close to an auction	22:16
dirtyPair	so i figure maybe i should buy software from someone else	22:16
dirtyPair	skip webgui	22:16
@rizen	why do you say that about open source business	22:16
dirtyPair	because you are codewarriors not accountants	22:17
@rizen	what does that have to do with anything?	22:17
@rizen	and why can't we be both	22:17
dirtyPair	now you are offended	22:17
@rizen	no	22:17
@rizen	just wondering	22:17
dirtyPair	i never said you can't be both, just that you are not both	22:17
dirtyPair	or are you a cpa as well?	22:18
@rizen	plain black uses an accounting firm	22:18
@rizen	so we don't need to be accountants	22:18
wgGuest64	cant blame them there...	22:18
dirtyPair	heh	22:18
dirtyPair	nevermind	22:18
@rizen	but we know a good deal about business	22:18
dirtyPair	then why does 95% of the world still use microsoft?	22:19
wgGuest64	becaue thats what they learned first	22:19
@preaction_	trollbait?	22:19
dirtyPair	you have a better product	22:19
wgGuest64	some people dont want to bother LEARNING	22:19
@preaction_	trollbait	22:19
wgGuest64	on another note... when I add in the form fields for putting in your login information it throws off the alignment of my CSS	22:20
@preaction_	are you using the loginbox macro or your own form field?	22:21
wgGuest64	my own form field - which is probably the problem	22:21
@preaction_	no, but in order to diagnose CSS properly, you should go to the #css channel	22:22
@preaction_	a note: the IRC network you're on is irc.freenode.net, if you want to use a proper IRC client	22:22
wgGuest64	would it be easier to use a loginbox macro?	22:23
@preaction_	easier, probably, but you'll probably still have a problem with your CSS	22:23
wgGuest64	does plainblack do converting of templates into packages?	22:23
wgGuest64	I originally found an opensource site that I am trying to implement - but the conversion is a tad on the tricky side	22:24
wgGuest64	http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=947	22:25
wgGuest64	just in case anyones wondering	22:25
@preaction_	https://www.plainblack.com/store/services/development/design/process/quote <- perhaps this is what you're looking for?	22:26
@rizen	it will cost you between $300 and $500 (we aren't cheap for that sort of thing)	22:27
wgGuest64	well I understand that	22:28
wgGuest64	and I wouldnt have any problems paying if thats what it comes down to	22:28
wgGuest64	btw how do i change my name in this channel	22:28
@preaction_	use /nick	22:28
@rizen	do /nick name	22:29
@preaction_	it's a standard IRC client, if you've used one of thems before	22:29
-!- wgGuest64 is now known as teflond0n		22:32
teflond0n	thanks.	22:32
teflond0n	btw - I appreciate the help. I understand you guys are an open source business.... figured it would be nice since I haven't slung money your way to atleast show some gratitude	22:33
-!- wgGuest45 is now known as metanil		22:34
metanil	can i use standard IRC client instead of this java based web embedded client	22:35
@preaction_	metanil, yes, it's just freenode. the java client is just for convenience and for those who don't use IRC much	22:39
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metanil	one quick question..	22:43
teflond0n	which piece of educational material from plainblack would help me work on conversion of the site?	22:44
metanil	i see several users created in mysql with weird name.. what was it for???	22:44
@preaction_	teflond0n, probably the designer's guide. there's also a very nice article on the Wiki about "How to give WebGUI your own style"	22:44
@preaction_	metanil, those are for the site's normal access to the database, look in your webgui.conf files (WebGUI/etc/sitename.conf) and look for "dbUser" and "dbPass"	22:45
teflond0n	I've went through that article a few times... I may just be taking the wrong approach	22:45
metanil	o o.. if i switched the mysql database.. then i should create this users.. right? BTW, do i have to give some specific privilege to these users?	22:46
@preaction_	metanil, the user needs all privileges to their specific database	22:47
metanil	yaa.. i got it.. thanks.. i'll try it then.. and get back here.	22:47
metanil	how do i connect to this channel?	22:55
metanil	any command?	22:56
@preaction_	irc.freenode.net, #webgui	22:56
metanil	it says unknown command	22:57
@preaction_	what command are you running?	22:57
metanil	just "#webgui"	22:58
@preaction_	you need to /join #webgui	22:58
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metanil	o o	22:58
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metani1	thanks preaction..it work!	22:59
-!- metanil [n=wgGuest4@137.48.138.72] has quit [Remote closed the connection]		22:59
-!- metani1 [n=akhadka@137.48.138.72] has quit ["Leaving."]		23:00
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metanil	how many that 'weird' mysql username is created for single site?	23:04
metanil	i found four on database.. and i guess my site is only using one of them..	23:05
@preaction_	one for each site should be created, you might want to check what database they have permissions on (and you can delete them if you want)	23:06
metanil	the password in <mysite>.conf file in in MD5 ..right?	23:07
metanil	or is it a simple text..	23:13
metanil	hello	23:20
metanil	why it is using same old mysql sock file	23:20
metanil	/data/wre/var/mysqldata/mysql.sock'	23:20
metanil	i looked through the code but i cannot find any setting related to the path of the mysql.sock file.	23:21
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perlDreamer	metanil, the password in the conf file should be plaintext	23:39
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--- Day changed Thu Dec 06 2007
-!- SDuensin [n=Scott@107.sub-75-205-231.myvzw.com] has quit ["Leaving"]		00:07
perlDreamer	preaction: you're such a nice guy	00:11
perlDreamer	preaction_: you're a nice guy, too	00:11
@preaction_	you lie, you blaspheme	00:12
perlDreamer	Okay. You drive valuable members away from our community you treacherous keyboard addicted knothead	00:12
@preaction_	woohoo!	00:13
@apeiron	perlDreamer, use laziness; s/trea.+$/troll/;	00:13
@rizen	i object	00:13
@rizen	that's my job	00:13
@rizen	don't let preaction do that	00:13
perlDreamer	perl: Can't locate laziness.pm in @INC	00:14
perlDreamer	Rats	00:14
perlDreamer	Time for a new RFE	00:14
perlDreamer	perlbot: Connect to RFE forum and submit (title => Need more laziness in WRE, content => Please write, and then add the laziness pragma to the WRE for 0.8.2)	00:14
perlDreamer	perlbot: karmatize "Need more laziness in WRE", transfer 20_000	00:15
perlDreamer	rizen: I would have picked you, but that would have been Wii addicted rather than keyboard ;)	00:16
@rizen	wow	00:17
@rizen	that would be cool if you could do it	00:17
perlDreamer	It would give a new meaning to hacking code	00:17
@rizen	the perlbot connect to forum thing	00:17
perlDreamer	Surely someone somewhere has figured out how to map Wii output into keyboard macros and hot keys	00:18
perlDreamer	Speaking of hacking, I need to hack the nightly build server and then run that Storage/Image.t test by hand to figure out why it's broken.	00:19
perlDreamer	All of my debug output is being trapped by prove	00:19
@preaction_	there's something i know of that lets you connect the Wii to Windows computers and use the GH3 guitar to play Frets On Fire	00:20
@preaction_	GlovePIE <- that's what it is	00:20
@preaction_	i want to hack a proper linux driver so i can use the wiimote as a mouse	00:20
@preaction_	there's a youtube video about a guy who made the computer interface from Minority Report using a wiimote	00:21
perlDreamer	that would be cool	00:21
@preaction_	http://www.wiili.org/index.php/DarwiinRemote <- omg... it's already been made	00:21
@preaction_	for MacOSX even	00:21
@preaction_	so JT could do it on his TV	00:22
@preaction_	http://www.wiili.org/index.php/Remote_Buddy <- this thing is damn cool too, looks like you can enhance your existing apple IR remote with it	00:24
perlDreamer	Please input a motion for selecting the DVD player	00:31
perlDreamer	Please input a motion for turning off the TV	00:31
perlDreamer	Now, what would be really cool is if you combine it with X10	00:31
perlDreamer	Lights on	00:31
perlDreamer	Rear lights dim to 50%	00:32
perlDreamer	Stereo on	00:32
metanil	hey	00:54
metanil	anyone known to this problem.	00:55
metanil	/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by /data/wre/prereqs/bin/perl)	00:55
@preaction_	do you have GCC with glibc 2.4? are you using the right WRE? are you compiling the WRE?	00:55
@preaction_	http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/oreilly/radar/atom/~3/195702042/openid_20_final.html <- OpenID 2.0 is released. This looks like something that needs to be in Core (/me adds RFE)	00:56
perlDreamer	wasn't Cap10Morgan doing an OpenId already?	00:57
@preaction_	no, danny_mk made one and it's on the contribs, but it's the old OpenID, 2.0 was just released	00:57
@preaction_	the old OpenID from bradfitz of Six Apart / LiveJournal	00:57
metanil	yes i have gcc	00:57
metanil	gcc (GCC) 4.0.3 (Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5)	00:57
perlDreamer	ah, but what about glibc?	00:58
metanil	don't know about glibc..	00:58
@preaction_	and your glibc? are you using the WRE that was compiled for ubuntu? there seems to be problems with it	00:58
@preaction_	apt-get install build-essential <- necessary	00:58
metanil	yes	00:58
metanil	i downloaded one from plainblack site	00:58
metanil	i did that a month ago.. i guess.	00:59
@preaction_	which one though?	00:59
metanil	i guess its the wrong version.. the one i download and test is for version 7.04 feisty	01:02
metanil	and i am trying it to setup in 6.06 dapper	01:03
metanil	so my bad	01:03
@preaction_	you're using the latest 0.8.1 WRE, right? get the source install and build it yourself.	01:03
metanil	no .. 0.8.0	01:03
@preaction_	0.8.1 was released a few days ago	01:03
metanil	but i didn't see any version 0.8.1 for 6.06 right	01:03
metanil	it just say ubuntu 6 server..	01:04
metanil	will that work?	01:04
@preaction_	perlbot tias	01:04
perlbot	Try It And See: the best way to learn if something works.	01:04
@preaction_	but i would suggest building it yourself	01:04
metanil	hmm..	01:05
metanil	i think wre-0.7.2-ubuntu-6.06-i386-3.tar.gz will also work .. right?	01:05
metanil	but its 0.7.2 (OLD!)	01:05
@preaction_	you don't want to use the WRE 0.7.2	01:05
perlDreamer	No	01:05
@preaction_	there are WRE build instructions on the wiki	01:05
metanil	ok i'm downloading the source	01:07
metanil	the latest one	01:07
@preaction_	i imagine if you offer to zip up your /data/wre folder when you're done and upload it to sourceforge, we can help you through the build process	01:10
@preaction_	the OpenID auth module is now number 10 on the RFE list, and i only used half my karma ;)	01:11
perlDreamer	Has it been approved already?	01:11
@preaction_	yup	01:12
* perlDreamer alleges nepotism		01:12
metanil	ok sure..	01:12
@preaction_	if you can't prove it, it didn't happen	01:12
@preaction_	metanil, by that i mean if something goes wrong, we can help fix it. you'll still need to use the instructions on the wiki	01:13
metanil	ya.. i'm in.	01:13
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5093 /WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Help/Macros.pm: do not modify $_ in list functions. PBP/114	01:18
CIA-44	WebGUI: colin * r5094 /WebGUI/lib/XML/RSS/Creator.pm:	01:18
CIA-44	WebGUI: Bareword file handle. See pages 202,204 of PBP. (Severity: 5)	01:18
CIA-44	WebGUI: Two-argument "open". See page 207 of PBP. (Severity: 5)	01:18
perlDreamer	This Perl::Critic thing is very cool	01:19
perlDreamer	But Martin is going to hate it	01:19
@preaction_	oh i imagine we're all going to hate it eventually	01:20
perlDreamer	level 5 isn't too bad yet	01:23
perlDreamer	but the eval thing is going to be tough	01:23
@preaction_	can't use string eval?	01:24
perlDreamer	no	01:24
perlDreamer	PBP, page 191	01:25
@preaction_	contextual return values?	01:29
perlDreamer	whoops! sorry	01:30
perlDreamer	wrong bug	01:30
perlDreamer	page 161	01:30
@preaction_	yeah, can't use string eval	01:31
perlDreamer	actually, if you have 15 minutes, you could take this one: WebGUI/Asset/Wobject/Calendar.pm: Don't modify $_ in list functions at line 861, column 13. See page 114 of PBP. (Severity: 5)	01:31
perlDreamer	it's a postfix for statement	01:31
@preaction_	there was a Good Reason for that! mutter mumble	01:32
@preaction_	k, will see	01:32
perlDreamer	oh, dude	01:32
perlDreamer	Don't worry	01:32
perlDreamer	A bunch of my code got pinged too	01:32
perlDreamer	and this is only level 5	01:33
@preaction_	eh, it's the Calendar, it's old-me code	01:33
perlDreamer	Yeah. A younger, less experienced preaction. Not the current, grizzled world weary hacker of 2007	01:33
@preaction_	amen brotha	01:33
@preaction_	not the one that's about to write an apache module to translate samba requests	01:34
perlDreamer	Huh?	01:34
perlDreamer	We're getting a samba plug-in?	01:34
@preaction_	no, i'm going to write an apache plugin to allow me to do: http://example.com/\\winblowz\share	01:35
@preaction_	or something	01:35
@preaction_	i've spent 3 days getting an OBSD box with PF working to do traffic shaping, NAT, and routing for my network. now i need to make it into a samba gateway / translation service to prove to my friend that he shouldn't waste $150 on windows home server	01:36
@preaction_	+ whatever he needs to get hardware that'll run the thing	01:36
perlDreamer	How about just getting a Dlink DNS-323?	01:37
perlDreamer	NAS appliance that runs linux, and allows RAID	01:37
perlDreamer	SMB, ftp, SSH, http	01:37
perlDreamer	low power	01:37
perlDreamer	and it's a print server, too	01:37
perlDreamer	http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=509	01:38
perlDreamer	Total cost, ~$400 for 0.5 Tb and RAID 0.	01:38
@preaction_	what do they mean by "access over the internet"? i need the whole samba gateway thing because i have three comps with samba shares, and he's got at least that many too	01:40
@preaction_	i expect they mean "nat port 139 to this thing"	01:40
@preaction_	or FTP or whatevz	01:40
perlDreamer	Yup.	01:40
@preaction_	which would work, but would restrict smb access from internet to just that	01:40
@preaction_	i expect i'll ask the ppl over at #samba if there's an easier solution than my cronjob that'll automount all available shares, but i also expect i'm on the right path	01:41
@preaction_	jeebus, i just svn up and did you touch every file in webgui? ;)	01:43
perlDreamer	:)	01:43
perlDreamer	Merge soon!	01:43
perlDreamer	It's mainly Help/, i18n/English/ and a whole bunch of files for 'return undef'-isms	01:44
perlDreamer	but there will be more coming	01:44
perlDreamer	I'd like to be test clean and -gentle clean by Xmas	01:44
perlDreamer	but I need server access for the tests	01:45
perlDreamer	since they run clean here and at home	01:45
@preaction_	that'd be JT's domain, i for one don't trust you. you've been shady and slipshod since you started this racket. you're brash and headstrong. i'm sick of this "Demolition Man" shenanigans!	01:46
@preaction_	Be well	01:46
perlDreamer	Hey, who are you calling shady?	01:46
@preaction_	the _ means "awesome", not "incognito"	01:47
* perlDreamer starts to get the feeling he's missing a movie quote		01:47
@preaction_	and i can't fix this: it's necessary for the operation of the feeds form. i mean, it can be fixed, and i think it's just a matter of using List::Util uniq after the map (for some reason there kept being duplicate feed IDs	01:49
@preaction_	Demolition Man quote was the last one "I'm sick of..." and "be well"	01:49
@preaction_	Demolition Man quotes seem to be the norm around the office for some reason	01:50
@preaction_	or maybe it's just one quote that they all keep saying	01:50
perlDreamer	It just needs to be uniq'ed in a non $_ altering way	01:51
@preaction_	ohhh	01:51
metanil	i'm now compiling WRE	01:52
perlDreamer	PBP 114	01:52
perlDreamer	"Never modify $_ in a list function"	01:52
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perlDreamer	btw, uniq is in List::MoreUtils	01:54
@preaction_	committed	01:57
perlDreamer	you rock	01:57
perlDreamer	Your contributions to WebGUI enrich the whole community.	01:58
@preaction_	people keep saying that and i keep looking at how much more i could be doing	01:58
perlDreamer	You write core code, answer forum postings, help people on IRC	01:59
@preaction_	dirtyPair, for example, wanted an auction software. i've got one planned out for WebGUI, after i merge in my Gallery branch i'm going to make my own WebGUI_doug branch so I can develop experimental stuff and merge with core when it's ready	01:59
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@preaction_	i think i talked before about API versioning	01:59
@preaction_	so we can repair the Auth API	02:00
perlDreamer	I don't remember the talk about API versioning	02:03
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perlDreamer	link?	02:03
@preaction_	it was here last i knew	02:04
@preaction_	i don't even remember, maybe it was just in my head	02:04
@preaction_	or maybe it was something to do with the Paginator and marking an "apiv2" to get the template variables to no longer have the period chars in them	02:05
metanil	(whole bunch of ERRORS coming..)	02:06
@preaction_	pastebin	02:07
@preaction_	not here	02:07
@preaction_	pastebin	02:07
metanil	WRE ERROR: lftp-3.5.10 make did not complete successfully	02:07
@preaction_	http://webgui.pastebin.com	02:07
perlDreamer	preaction_: you know where the WebGUI IRC logs are?	02:08
perlDreamer	on mentalhouse.net	02:08
perlDreamer	I'll look there.	02:08
perlDreamer	Do you remember the month?	02:08
@preaction_	not especially, but it doesn't matter really	02:08
@preaction_	nope	02:08
@preaction_	again, it's probably all in my head	02:08
perlDreamer	k	02:08
metanil	pastebin?	02:09
metanil	help-> pastebin	02:09
metanil	:D	02:09
@preaction_	the idea being: The class has an $API_VERSION class-scoped lexical and the superclass uses it to determine what arguments are being passed to its methods	02:09
@preaction_	that way two different APIs can be supported by the same superclass	02:09
metanil	how can i use pastebin?	02:09
@preaction_	read the /topic	02:10
@preaction_	and when you do, paste your entire build.sh output to the pastebin, then give us the link	02:10
metanil	(damn!)	02:11
metanil	i should have looked at that	02:11
-!- preaction_ changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.16-stable \| WRE 0.8.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ \| WebGUI Community Contests, Win Money/Fame/Prizes: http://webgui.org/wcc		02:11
metanil	hello	02:12
metanil	http://webgui.pastebin.com/d4bbf4577	02:13
@preaction_	looks like libreadline isn't going to compile on your system	02:14
metanil	oh!	02:15
metanil	is it the package within the WRE?	02:15
@preaction_	wrebuild/source/lftp-3.5.10/readline-4.3 <- that	02:16
metanil	hmm..	02:20
metanil	see at line 207	02:21
@preaction_	that's ./configure, if configure encounted a fatal bug it would've stopped	02:22
metanil	so its ok to not having LIBGNUTLS	02:22
@preaction_	right	02:22
@preaction_	the fatal stuff start at line 845	02:23
metanil	i guess i have readline on my system already..	02:25
metanil	libreadline5	02:26
@preaction_	you do, but the WRE compiles another for itself (rather, lftp compiles one for itself)	02:26
metanil	but its 4.3	02:26
metanil	why can't it use the system's one?	02:26
@preaction_	it can't be sure the system has one	02:26
@preaction_	but we can try to munge it for your system, to get it to compile	02:27
@preaction_	in the wrebuild/source/lftp-3.5.10 there should be an INSTALL file, does it say anything about Ubuntu Dapper?	02:28
@apeiron	hmmm	02:28
@apeiron	* ncurses or termcap development is required. If you get undefined	02:29
@apeiron	references to tputs or tgetent, install ncurses-devel package.	02:29
@preaction_	sounds like something that should be in the WRE	02:29
metanil	lets see	02:29
@apeiron	ehh	02:29
metanil	ncurses-devel?	02:29
perlDreamer	yup	02:29
@preaction_	metanil, apt-get install ncurses-dev (or if that fails, apt-cache search ncurses dev)	02:30
metanil	sure sure man.. thanks.	02:30
metanil	(i'm getting excited)	02:30
metanil	no no no no no	02:30
perlDreamer	If you think this is fun, you should come to the next WebGUI User's Conference	02:30
@preaction_	lib32ncurses5-dev <- probable package name	02:31
metanil	i guess.. i build successfully this time ..	02:31
metanil	:D	02:31
metanil	but i can' t say.. right.. its still compiling..	02:31
metanil	but i bet .. it did pass that line.. without any errors..	02:31
metanil	(yeah!!!)	02:31
metanil	its now building libtool-1.5.22	02:32
metanil	now expat-2.0.0	02:32
@apeiron	re termcap / ncurses in the WRE: I'm reminded of the termcap vs. terminfo situation. Does any 'modern' software actually require / prefer terminfo?	02:32
metanil	going for libxml now.	02:33
@preaction_	couldn't tell you: the magic of systems programming / compiling / libraries and dependancies are all beyond me atm	02:33
@apeiron	heh.	02:34
@preaction_	brute force method of "google and experiment" is about all i can do	02:34
@apeiron	Learn C.	02:34
@apeiron	It'll help.	02:34
@preaction_	it's on my list, after python	02:34
perlDreamer	You mean there's more than "google and experiment"?	02:34
@apeiron	(or learn C by making stuff build, like I did)	02:34
@apeiron	preaction_, http://xkcd.com/353/ # :(	02:35
@apeiron	preaction_, Read the title="" part.	02:35
@preaction_	omg he's leaving Perl?	02:36
@apeiron	If we are to take the strip at face value and assume the POV of the strip is the xkcd author.	02:36
@preaction_	i want to learn python just so i can figure out why the Perl v. Python debate exists	02:36
@apeiron	IMO, it's largely an issue of preferences and taste.	02:37
@preaction_	that and I hear it's easier to interlace Python with C libraries (XS is nice, but it's kinda ugly)	02:37
@preaction_	i think the perl and python communities are fundamentally different, with different goals	02:37
@apeiron	Aside from being a bit outdated with regard to the tests that h2xs generates these days, perlxstut is pretty solid.	02:38
perlDreamer	OO in python is dirt simple	02:39
@preaction_	Strawberry Perl is another thing, too little too late	02:39
perlDreamer	And it prevents people from writing "ugly code"	02:39
@preaction_	eh, that's the main thing i hate about python, the whitespace-as-syntax	02:40
perlDreamer	yeah	02:40
perlDreamer	welcome back to FORTRAN	02:40
@apeiron	'back to' heh	02:40
perlDreamer	Y'all never learned FORTRAN?	02:40
@apeiron	er, they didn't teach that in school, I'm afraid.	02:41
@preaction_	nope, i was the only one in my school who wanted "Advanced Programming", so they didn't let me	02:41
perlDreamer	Listen here, sonny, you need to pick better schools ;)	02:41
@preaction_	no college to speak of outside of C++ (crap) and Java (worse crap)	02:41
perlDreamer	In my days, we used bark for computing, and we LIKED IT.	02:41
@apeiron	I went to a parochial school largely because the public schools are so bad that the state's been involved.	02:42
@apeiron	So, not much in terms of modern technology.	02:42
perlDreamer	We punched holes in the bark with awls, and if you happened to put one through your hand, you just bled and kept on punching	02:42
@apeiron	awls? D'you mean awk?	02:42
perlDreamer	Kind of, only more pointy	02:43
perlDreamer	well, us old folk need our rest	02:44
perlDreamer	Catch y'all later	02:44
@preaction_	cya	02:44
@apeiron	See ya tomorrow, good sir.	02:44
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metanil	oh no.. its still compiling.	03:53
@preaction_	that's a good thing	03:54
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metanil	==> Auto-install the 1 optional module(s) from CPAN? [n]	06:05
@preaction_	up to you, i'd go with "no" for now	06:15
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CIA-44	WebGUI: graham * r5096 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/docs/create.sql: preparing for 7.4.16 release	07:48
-!- Radix-wrk changed the topic of #webgui to: [ WebGUI 7.4.17-stable \| WRE 0.8.1 ] Before you ask, check the wiki: http://wiki.webgui.org \| Pastebin: http://webgui.pastebin.com/ \| WebGUI Community Contests, Win Money/Fame/Prizes: http://webgui.org/wcc		08:02
CIA-44	WebGUI: jt * r5097 /releases/WebGUI_7.4.17-stable: Release 7.4.17-stable	08:03
CIA-44	WebGUI: graham * r5098 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (5 files in 5 dirs): preparing for 7.4.18 dev	08:03
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metanil	bravo "Building Complete And Successful"	08:21
@preaction_	yay!	08:21
metanil	i am creating package..	08:27
metanil	where should i submit it?	08:27
metanil	in sourforge?	08:28
@preaction_	hang on, finding out	08:28
@preaction_	upload to ftp://upload.sf.net/incoming, name it something like wre-0.8.1-ubuntu-6.06-i386.tar.gz (or whatever your processor is)	08:32
@preaction_	then post on http://www.webgui.org/webgui/dev/discuss	08:33
@preaction_	might want to add the note about making sure ncurses-dev is installed	08:33
@preaction_	(to the post you make on the dev forum, i mean)	08:34
+Radix-wrk	Cool.. I like flickr's new editing capabilities	08:34
+Radix-wrk	can rotate/crop/resize/alter exposure/colours, sharpen, red-eye, plus heaps of custom effects.. like vignette, soft focus, sepia, b&w, etc.. all in the browser	08:34
@preaction_	that is awesome	08:34
@preaction_	might need to RFE that for the Photo asset when the Gallery is done ;)	08:35
metanil	i didn't install ncurses-dev (i guess)	08:36
@preaction_	you didn't? i thought that's what you did and it started working	08:37
metanil	however i install libreadline5-deev	08:37
metanil	dev	08:37
@preaction_	ahh, then mention that	08:38
metanil	after i install that.. i runs fine..	08:39
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metanil	preaction_ did you got the package at that ftp	08:57
metanil	i cannot see any files that i just sent.	08:58
@preaction_	i don't have access to the sf.net project	09:01
metanil	oops..	09:03
@preaction_	might want to post on the dev forum and ask them how to do it	09:03
@preaction_	is someone with the latest webgui around for me to test something?	09:14
@preaction_	i need someone to try to create a File asset by going into the Asset Manager and clicking at the bottom-most File or Image link (do not do a File Pile)	09:15
+Radix-wrk	demo?	09:15
@preaction_	does it work?	09:15
@preaction_	oh... duh	09:15
+Radix-wrk	hehe	09:15
dapperedodo	You don't see the files you upload yourself, just be confident it is uploaded.	09:15
dapperedodo	(in sf that is)	09:16
metanil	o o .. thanks dapperdodo	09:23
dapperedodo	I had the same problem, you can try to upload it again and it will say that the file already exists, and you cannot overwrite it.	09:23
metanil	yaa.. it throws error..	09:25
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BartJol	does anyone know how to set a translation as default language pack	14:34
BartJol	?	14:35
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BartJol	dapperedodo do you know how to set a translation as default?	14:35
dapperedodo	Default for the new user is in the userProfiling, change the default value of the language	14:36
dapperedodo	Default for the visitor is set in the profile of the user 'visitor'	14:36
BartJol	makes sense	14:37
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wgGuest30	what timezone is plainblack based in?	15:11
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ckotil	im guessing EST	15:24
ckotil	they are based out of madison, wisonsin	15:25
t3flond0n	ok thanks	15:25
ckotil	could be CST.	15:25
ckotil	not sure what goes on that far north ;)	15:25
t3flond0n	I was actually looking to buy some of their books on line	15:25
t3flond0n	lol same here	15:25
t3flond0n	GA here... and yourself?	15:25
ckotil	Indian	15:26
ckotil	a	15:26
t3flond0n	you fairly familiar with webgui?	15:26
ckotil	yes. i've been using it for a little over 1 year now	15:26
t3flond0n	what should I be using tagwise to display images etc.	15:27
t3flond0n	my background images are in the css	15:27
t3flond0n	but i cant get ANY images to display	15:27
ckotil	html tag? <img>	15:28
t3flond0n	so it shouldnt be any different than standard html right?	15:28
ckotil	the end result will be exactly the same	15:29
ckotil	to do it the webgui way, you will want to upload your image via 'file pile'	15:29
ckotil	then when you go to edit an article or page layout asset you can use the WYSIWYG editor to insert that image.	15:29
t3flond0n	does filepile go into the folder your in - in admin mode or is there a default?	15:30
t3flond0n	I ask because when I do filepile none of the images are uploaded	15:32
ckotil	they will go into your current location. you can use the admin console to navigate through your site	15:35
ckotil	take a look at your webgui.log file	15:35
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t3flond0n	ok said the directory did not exist and it couldnt create it	15:40
t3flond0n	so I think I may have a permissions issue on that box	15:40
ckotil	yup , sounds like thats the issue	15:40
t3flond0n	but why would it let me upload individual files and not batch upload?	15:41
ckotil	the individual files could have been saved to a directory with the proper permissions. and the batch upload files did not	15:42
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t3flond0n	can I link a bit of CSS and you tell me if I have the img source set right	15:44
BartJol	you can also use an assetprocy	15:45
BartJol	proxy	15:45
BartJol	that's a macro	15:45
t3flond0n	how would I do that	15:47
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t3flond0n	body{background: #555 url(^FileUrl(style/pattern.png);); repeat;}	15:48
ckotil	so ^FileUrl( is a macro	15:49
ckotil	and its wierd.	15:49
t3flond0n	should I have that on there?	15:49
ckotil	it shoudl work. but just for fun. try using ^AssetProxy( instead	15:49
t3flond0n	so ^AssetProxy(style/pattern.png););	15:50
ckotil	yup	15:50
ckotil	then when the page loads. check the source to make sure the location is correct. i.e. try to access it in your browser	15:51
t3flond0n	should the url still be infront of all that?	15:52
t3flond0n	or just ^Assetproxy(style/pattern.png);	15:52
ckotil	url is part of the css	15:53
ckotil	so that has to be there	15:53
t3flond0n	ok... now... if I go to click on more and view on the image I get The requested URL /uploads/Dj/kp/Djkp4Wd7X1iOCyt69FBH7Q/ was not found on this server.	15:55
t3flond0n	so I think its not loading the image because its not uploaded correctly	15:55
ckotil	probably	15:55
t3flond0n	once again it seems my problem boils down to permission issue .....	15:56
t3flond0n	any idea what permissions I need to check first?	15:56
ckotil	i always issue a 'chown apache -R /gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/WebGUI/www/public/uploads/	15:57
ckotil	'	15:57
ckotil	after any upgrade.	15:57
ckotil	bc permissions seem to change.	15:57
ckotil	or i guess i normally dont have to do it after an upgrade. but certainly after an install or bringing up a backup	15:58
t3flond0n	brb gonna go run that	16:00
t3flond0n	ok now	16:04
t3flond0n	before i run this	16:04
t3flond0n	I know that should be different on the gnoc/globalnoc	16:04
t3flond0n	should that be in your wre file? under prereqs	16:05
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ckotil	heh	16:07
ckotil	/gnoc/globalnoc/htdocs/ is specific to my setup.	16:07
ckotil	i would cd to your WebGUI dir.	16:07
ckotil	then issue chmod apache -R www/public/	16:07
ckotil	this is assuming apache is the apache user, and all the file permissions are set to allow the owner to read and write.	16:08
t3flond0n	well everything was default	16:09
t3flond0n	so could i just do chmode -R www/public/	16:10
ckotil	if thats what needs to be done.	16:10
ckotil	the wre should just work 'out of the box'	16:10
t3flond0n	is that supposed to be the document root?	16:18
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ckotil	no document root is /data/WebGUI/ unless you installed it elsewhere	16:26
ckotil	hrmm i guess www/ is the document root	16:29
t3flond0n	ok...	16:30
t3flond0n	I know the command I need to use is chown -R :group file	16:31
t3flond0n	the only issue I need to find out is what owner or group I need to do this for	16:31
ckotil	take a look at which user is running the httpd process	16:32
t3flond0n	whats the command for that	16:32
ckotil	ps aux \| grep httpd	16:32
t3flond0n	that would be root I think	16:33
t3flond0n	<-- running it off a Mac OSX	16:33
ckotil	ah.	16:33
ckotil	im running 10.5.1 and	16:34
t3flond0n	so then it would be chown -R	16:34
ckotil	_www is the user running httpd	16:34
t3flond0n	where does the root name go ...	16:34
t3flond0n	still new to linux/unix systems	16:34
t3flond0n	but getting there	16:34
t3flond0n	considering I have only been doing them about a week	16:34
ckotil	there is a single process of httpd owned by root. but the rest are _www. if your certain its root.. chown root:root -R www/public/	16:35
ckotil	heh. yikes, thats a lot to absorb in a week.	16:35
t3flond0n	well when I ran the ps aux - root was on one line - and there was nothing else	16:35
t3flond0n	its ok - abuse makes you learn fast	16:35
t3flond0n	;)	16:35
t3flond0n	it said chown: root: Invalid Argument	16:36
t3flond0n	says usage: chown [-fhv] [-R [-H \| -L \| -P]] owner[:group] file	16:39
t3flond0n	says usage: chown [-fhv] [-R [-H \| -L \| -P]] :group file	16:39
ckotil	the -R comes before root:root	16:40
ckotil	sorry	16:40
t3flond0n	np	16:40
t3flond0n	chown -R root:root www/public/ invalid argument again	16:40
ckotil	type pwd	16:42
ckotil	to make sure you are in the webgui dir	16:42
t3flond0n	ok... got it to chown: /data/WebGUI/www/public/ but then says no such file or directory	16:42
t3flond0n	yep	16:42
t3flond0n	pwd says data/WebGUI	16:42
ckotil	something isnt right with the syntax of that command is all.	16:43
t3flond0n	chown -R root www/public/	16:45
t3flond0n	everything look right here?	16:45
ckotil	looks good to me	16:46
ckotil	you might need to 'su' or 'su root' first.	16:46
ckotil	which will make you the root user.	16:46
t3flond0n	ok finally	16:48
t3flond0n	there wasnt a public - went through the directory to check	16:48
t3flond0n	got it though	16:48
t3flond0n	now let me upload again	16:48
t3flond0n	wtheck	16:52
t3flond0n	now its saying couldnt create storage location /data/domains/test.name.org/public/uploads	16:52
perlmonkey2	7.4.17 is out, but the svn upgrade.pl said my DB is up to date at 7.4.14?	16:53
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t3flond0n	2007/12/06 09:58:25 - ERROR - test.ucschools.org.conf - main::[[undef]] -	17:03
t3flond0n	anyone got any suggestions where to start with this?	17:03
ckotil	thats your webgui.conf file	17:05
ckotil	dunno what else to make of that error.	17:06
ckotil	any have the html+css to create near transparent but colorful backdrops for div's w/ rounded edges?	17:06
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perlmonkey2	has something changed with new WebGUI installs and the default template has changed?	17:23
perlmonkey2	never mind, a permissions issue.	17:25
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t3flond0n	anyone got any suggestions for good reading material that will help me with both webgui and CSS - or atleast webgui	17:31
ckotil	scour the webgui wiki	17:32
perlmonkey2	t3flond0n: Yes, the wiki has tons of great info. Even a good CSS tut.	17:32
t3flond0n	I havent quite gotten enough detail out of that... considering purchasing the webgui books	17:32
t3flond0n	atleast a couple of them	17:32
perlmonkey2	t3flond0n: Either that or WebGUI support, which is great.	17:32
t3flond0n	mayb my problem is im trying to learn both linux/unix and webgui at the same time	17:33
perlmonkey2	t3flond0n: I've looked over the books and they seem well written and pertinent.	17:33
perlmonkey2	t3flond0n: yes, that would like trying to learn calc and diffy Q at the same time.	17:33
ckotil	webgui support IS great.	17:34
t3flond0n	worth paying for?	17:35
ckotil	definately.	17:35
t3flond0n	or would you recommend learning from books?	17:35
ckotil	almost required if you're going to use webgui in a production environment	17:35
t3flond0n	I work at a school system	17:35
t3flond0n	they want to try it out	17:35
ckotil	both. what are you going to use webgui for?	17:35
ckotil	ah, cool.	17:35
ckotil	lots of schools use webgui.	17:35
t3flond0n	from what I have seen there are some nice sites.	17:36
ckotil	yeah, you can do anything with this CMS.	17:36
perlmonkey2	t3flond0n: WebGUI uses the Pelr HTML::Template which allows WebGUI to work in almost any design you can dream up. Plus it is fast and easy to customize. Not that most people need to customize as it seems to come with every feature thinkable.	17:37
t3flond0n	well I had a site i found	17:37
t3flond0n	open source	17:37
t3flond0n	that i was trying to implement	17:37
ckotil	html::template::expr allows for even more customization, and the templatetoolkit is supposed to allow for even more! tho i havent used the template toolkit yet	17:38
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perlmonkey2	ckotil: WebGUI now supports TT?	17:38
perlmonkey2	WOOOOOT!	17:38
ckotil	pretty sure.	17:38
perlmonkey2	No offense against HT, but I way prefer TT.	17:38
ckotil	id have to rewrite all my templates ;)	17:39
perlmonkey2	although I'll have to look at HT::expr	17:39
wgGuest78	http://www.opendesigns.org/preview/?template=947	17:39
wgGuest78	how hard do you think it would be to get this into the WebGui system	17:39
perlmonkey2	Not too hard	17:39
perlmonkey2	the nav bar is always the sticky part.	17:39
perlmonkey2	looks pretty easy to move	17:40
wgGuest78	you mean at the top or on the left?	17:40
perlmonkey2	the top nav bar....just a matter of CSS, but then I hate doing the CSS work.	17:40
wgGuest78	if I knew more about CSS it wouldnt be so bad	17:40
ckotil	the nav on the left would be pretty easy. the top nav would require a little more effort	17:40
perlmonkey2	what nav bar on the left? addition links?	17:41
wgGuest78	but when I originally learned web design I was tought layouts and such using tables shakes head	17:41
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teflond0n	yea	17:41
teflond0n	thats what I was worried about	17:41
ckotil	perlmonkey2 : eh i guess you woudlnt need a nav asset for the left side	17:41
teflond0n	the top one wouldnt need to move I dont think	17:41
perlmonkey2	if you know any css you can do that top nav bar to some similiarity without hardly any effort.	17:41
perlmonkey2	to get it exactly the same will require tinkering.	17:41
teflond0n	well i have 2 css books on the way - ordered them from amazon yesterday	17:42
ckotil	Im more of a google learner myself. we have books in the office for about any subject tho for me to fallback on.	17:42
teflond0n	well i get tired of being on the pc all the time - at home at work and everywhere in between	17:43
perlmonkey2	WebGUI's tut would (and probably their books) would get you a long ways to being able to do this. It isn't really that hard if you know what you're doing (and I try to dislearn CSS right after I finish any CSS).	17:43
perlmonkey2	I vote for dead trees too	17:43
teflond0n	is any WebGUI employees around?	17:44
teflond0n	er plainblack	17:44
teflond0n	bb in a few	17:46
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teflond0n	preaction - you work for plainblack/webgui?	18:40
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teflond0n	does anyone know how to do the macro for both username and password login box	19:19
perlmonkey2	teflond0n: You want to alter the macro?	19:25
teflond0n	no - in my site layout whenever i try and put in a login and password box it throws off the layout-	19:26
perlmonkey2	teflond0n: By looking at the 3rd template, this looks like what you want: <div id="login">	19:27
perlmonkey2	^L("","","PBtmpl0000000000000092"); · ^AdminToggle;	19:27
perlmonkey2	</div>	19:27
teflond0n	i was wondering if it was because i was doing something wrong with the code...	19:27
teflond0n	thx	19:27
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perlmonkey2	teflond0n: Were you wanting to directly edit the macro for something?	19:33
teflond0n	no	19:43
teflond0n	I was actually just trying to make sure that stayed in a presigned portion of my page.... its not working out so hot	19:43
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perlmonkey2	teflond0n: I'm sure that macro uses a template	20:05
perlmonkey2	teflond0n: look at Root > Import Node > Macro/L_loginBox	20:14
perlmonkey2	not sure which one is being used.	20:14
perlmonkey2	looks lke the horizontal box is the default for style 3	20:15
perlmonkey2	I'd copy the horizontal template, point your style 3 (or copy style 3) at it and be done :)	20:16
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perlDreamer	Perl::Critic appears to be even slower than the original i18n.t	21:06
perlDreamer	I didn't think that was possible.	21:06
@rizen	hehe	21:07
perlDreamer	My policy also seems to have a few bugs, but those can be worked out	21:07
@rizen	you wrote a custom policy	21:08
@rizen	?	21:08
perlDreamer	Yeah	21:08
perlDreamer	Had to for the I18n check	21:08
@rizen	chris dolan will be so happy with you	21:08
@rizen	have you guys been chatting it up?	21:09
perlDreamer	I haven't really needed any support yet.	21:09
perlDreamer	It was surprisingly easy	21:09
perlDreamer	see /data/WebGUI/t/lib/Perl......	21:09
perlDreamer	ah, and there's the bug	21:11
perlDreamer	It doesn't handle the default namespace for WebGUI	21:11
perlDreamer	I'll fix that after I come back from the gym	21:12
perlDreamer	bbl	21:12
metanil	" Do you want to configure this WRE as a development only environment?"	21:16
metanil	whats the different between choosing YES and No	21:16
metanil	how can i migrate from WebGUI 7.4.11 to 7.4.17??	21:42
metanil	its in different machine	21:42
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teflond0n	hey perlmonkey2 - I didnt get a chance to thank you earlier - but you helped me get the admin login box fixed	21:55
perlmonkey2	teflond0n: Well I am happy I could help.	21:56
perlmonkey2	teflond0n: Did you just alter the existing style or create a new one?	21:57
teflond0n	copyed the info you posted and had to modify some <div tags on my site	21:57
perlmonkey2	Am I seeing this right? 38 MySQL queries to log in and 33 queries to log out?	22:01
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teflond0n	^L("","","PBtmpl0000000000000044") can anyone tell me what the numbers at the end of this string represent?	22:14
perlmonkey2	teflond0n: j/s	22:19
perlmonkey2	I believe they refer to this http://www.webgui.org/community-wiki/lineage	22:19
@rizen	the numbers there are just part of the template id	22:20
ckotil	its the assetID	22:20
@rizen	yes	22:20
ckotil	templateID rather	22:20
@rizen	templateId = assetId	22:20
@rizen	same thing	22:20
@rizen	all asset id's are 22 characters long	22:20
@rizen	that's why it's so big	22:20
perlmonkey2	Could someone commit the latest database update sql to subversion?	22:24
perlmonkey2	Doh, nevermind....of course it was something I was doing.	22:26
teflond0n	i c	22:31
teflond0n	whats ·	22:35
ckotil	looks like an html code for a .	22:37
ckotil	but it will be a little higher up in the line height	22:37
teflond0n	thx	22:37
teflond0n	whats the easiest way to modify a horizontal login user/pw box to be vertical	22:41
ckotil	i believe there is a vertical login template already thre for you	22:41
ckotil	try /default_login_box2	22:42
ckotil	or just /default_login_box	22:43
perlmonkey2	teflond0n: Take some time to explore the asset manager. It is a very handy way to explore WebGUI.	22:58
perlDreamer	ugh, make that two bugs	23:07
perlDreamer	The policy was trying to resolve calls to any objects ->get method	23:07
perlDreamer	no wonder it was so slow!	23:07
perlDreamer	It takes 4.5 minutes to check one file	23:13
perlDreamer	There are 533 files in the wG lib dir	23:13
perlDreamer	hmmmm	23:14
BartJol	well thta's only around 40 hours...	23:20
perlDreamer	Not too bad? :(	23:20
BartJol	sound as much fun as translating webgui	23:26
perlDreamer	well, it guarantees that there are no broken labels in the source code. It's a good test to have.	23:28
perlDreamer	It's just slow	23:28
BartJol	does it have to be repeated in new version? or can you label "good code"	23:36
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perlDreamer	It should be run on each version, so that you know you're releasing good code.	23:55
--- Day changed Fri Dec 07 2007
BartJol	pweeew, well but a good cause may take some time	00:02
perlDreamer	yes, kind of like mixing pannenkoeken batter	00:02
perlDreamer	or pumpkin soup	00:03
BartJol	:)	00:09
BartJol	indeed	00:09
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BartJol	bye	00:47
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perlDreamer	good night, Bart	00:48
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@preaction_	i officially hate the current File asset... 12 hours later I finally got my refactoring to work	01:36
perlDreamer	Noted.	01:36
perlDreamer	Be well	01:36
@preaction_	it's cleaner, but it creates two storage locations again	01:37
@preaction_	it deletes one of them, but still...	01:37
perlDreamer	I've been testing my Perl::Critic policy	01:37
perlDreamer	It takes 4.5 minutes to test Asset.pm	01:38
@preaction_	ooooh	01:38
@preaction_	jeebus	01:38
perlDreamer	On a 500 MHz PIII	01:38
@preaction_	oh, but still	01:38
perlDreamer	Yeah, I think PPI must be slow	01:38
@preaction_	wouldn't doubt it, it's trying to parse Perl ;)	01:39
perlDreamer	Do you have time to test it on a Mac?	01:39
@preaction_	sure	01:40
perlDreamer	svn up from head	01:40
perlDreamer	perldoc /data/WebGUI/t/lib/Perl/Critic/Policy/WebGUI/NoIllegalI18NLabels.pm	01:40
perlDreamer	that will give you instructions.	01:40
perlDreamer	you'll also need PPI and Perl::Critic installed	01:41
@preaction_	is it just cpan PPI or cpan Bundle-PPI?	01:45
perlDreamer	I did a cpan install Perl::Critic and it worked	01:46
perlDreamer	but it takes a while	01:46
@preaction_	ah, k	01:46
@preaction_	yeah	01:46
perlDreamer	lots and lots of modules	01:46
perlDreamer	the good news is that the new policy is equivalent in functionality to the old label.t	01:47
perlDreamer	the bad news, of course, is that it's very slow compared to label.t	01:47
perlDreamer	and PPI may not be able to handle the scoping that we need to fix the failing test in the first place.	01:48
perlDreamer	I need a way to detect the beginning and end of a block, and PPI doesn't work that way.	01:48
perlDreamer	It only does tokens, not events	01:48
perlDreamer	well, Perl::Critic does anyway	01:48
@preaction_	couldn't the policy keep track of the scope itself? i mean, it'd probably be a lot slower	01:49
perlDreamer	It would need to duplicate P::C's token iterator	01:49
perlDreamer	I wonder if it can be made to re-enter it...	01:49
@preaction_	would the RFE list be a good place for programming tasks / bounties? like for example I think that the Captcha generation should be factored out of WebGUI::Storage::Image, and WebGUI::Image should be the only module that uses Image::Magick, Graphics::Magick, or GD	01:53
perlDreamer	Tasks, yes.	01:54
perlDreamer	Bounties, no	01:54
perlDreamer	How would you implement a bounty?	01:54
@preaction_	true, they'd have to be manually applied (karma, of course)	01:54
perlDreamer	yeah, before the bounty system works, we need the user karma transfer RFE to be written	01:55
perlDreamer	um, submitted, approved and implemented	01:56
perlDreamer	btw, this is just my opinion, but I think we should subclass Image:::Magick, instead of wrapping it	01:57
perlDreamer	kind of like the DateTime vs the old DateTime	01:57
@preaction_	well, the Wrapper handles IM, GM, and can handle other libs later	01:57
@rizen	but it won't	01:58
@preaction_	it would probably be better to have the Wrapper WebGUI::Image call drivers like WebGUI::Image::ImageMagick which could be a subclass of ImageMagick	01:58
@rizen	we're getting rid of gm	01:58
@rizen	not saying drivers would be a bad idea	01:58
@rizen	but the support of GM as it stands won't be there in 7.5	01:58
@preaction_	should I leave in all the errorHandler->info statements I've been using to debug things?	02:00
@preaction_	i mean, the useful ones	02:00
@preaction_	like creating/deleting storage locations, uploading filenames	02:01
@rizen	sure	02:02
@rizen	that's what it's there fore	02:02
@preaction_	just making sure, it's a new development (the only one i've seen is the one for realtime commits)	02:02
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@rizen	preaction, when you get a page about dos	02:07
@rizen	don't worry about it	02:07
@rizen	we're upgrading	02:07
@preaction_	k, good luck	02:11
@preaction_	i'm still resolving deps for PerlCritic :p	02:11
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wgGuest69	How do you set a synopsis in a CS template?	02:13
@preaction_	the Metadata tab has the synopsis field	02:13
wgGuest69	Do I put what I want the synopsis to be in the Summary?	02:15
@preaction_	perlDreamer, i've got it installed, do i just: WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/WebGUI/etc/webgui.conf PERL5LIB=/data/WebGUI/t/lib perlcritic --single-policy NoIllegalI18NLabels	02:15
@preaction_	wgGuest37, ah, yes, it's called summary	02:15
perlDreamer	preaction_: Yes, your stealthiness	02:15
perlDreamer	uiLevel >= 3 for the Summary field to show up	02:16
perlDreamer	and 3 for the MetaData tab	02:16
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wgGuest69	Should the synopsis line in the cs template be in the tmpl loop?	02:20
@preaction_	which tmpl loop?	02:23
@preaction_	the one for threads?	02:23
wgGuest69	The one that begins the thread; the cs template	02:25
@preaction_	i don't understand, do you have an example you can paste to the pastebin in the topic?	02:26
wgGuest69	I want to implement a read more in a news cs	02:26
@preaction_	CS contain Threads, Threads contain Posts. The CS template displays threads	02:27
@preaction_	i thought the existing News / Blog template had a read more link?	02:27
wgGuest69	It doesn't give a synopsis of the post	02:28
wgGuest69	How & where do I paste the cs template I created?	02:30
@preaction_	read the /topic	02:30
perlDreamer	go to webgui.pastebin.com	02:31
@preaction_	how long is this NoIllegalI18N test supposed to take?	02:34
wgGuest69	I did already	02:34
perlDreamer	4.5 minutes on just Asset.pm on my dev box	02:34
@preaction_	it's taken longer than that, i don't think it's doing anything at all	02:35
perlDreamer	wgGuest69, what's the url for your paste?	02:35
wgGuest69	http://webgui.pastebin.com/m65e2986f	02:36
perlDreamer	preaction_: did you give it EXACTLY that command that you pasted above?	02:36
perlDreamer	If so, it's scanning EVERY module	02:36
perlDreamer	stop it, and append Asset.pm to the end to just do that noe	02:37
@preaction_	oh jeebus	02:37
@preaction_	k, started now	02:37
perlDreamer	Bart and I did a quick estimate, takes about 40 hours to do them all	02:37
perlDreamer	but that assumes all the files are the same size as Asset.pm	02:39
perlDreamer	most aren't	02:39
@preaction_	it only took like a minute	02:39
@preaction_	and for some reason the Help seems to tell me that there's no "synopsis" variable in the post_loop for the Collaboration Post List template	02:40
@preaction_	which is kinda weird.	02:40
perlDreamer	the Collaboration Post Loop needs to inherit a subset of the Post variables	02:41
perlDreamer	I haven't set that up yet	02:41
perlDreamer	Feel free to if you wish	02:41
@preaction_	can't atm, but i imagine it should use getTemplateVars()	02:41
perlDreamer	I think it actually contains the variable, but the Help just doesn't show it, so probably some isa and segmentation work.	02:42
@preaction_	ah	02:42
@preaction_	actually, it doesn't look like it does: Collaboration->appendTemplateVarsPostLoop	02:43
@preaction_	er... appendPostListTemplateVars	02:43
@preaction_	but that can't be true either... i've seen it used... humph...	02:44
perlDreamer	$post->get should bring it in	02:44
perlDreamer	since it's an asset level property of the Post	02:45
@preaction_	oh, dur, there it is	02:45
perlDreamer	heading home. Catch y'all later	02:46
@preaction_	and the Weblog template for the Collaboration System does exactly what I said it does	02:46
@preaction_	cya pd	02:46
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perlmonkey2	Can someone point me to docs on how to use the Collab system and the photo gallery? I've added them to my test instance, but they don't have any controls for doing anything except subscribing and searching.	05:25
@rizen	you have to commit it first	05:25
@rizen	then you can use it	05:25
perlmonkey2	oh.... Thanks :)	05:25
perlmonkey2	rizen: Did you ever reassign the survey system? I have the rest of the month off and started working on it again today.	05:26
@rizen	nope	05:27
@rizen	nobody else was interested	05:27
@rizen	it would be great if you could still do it	05:27
perlmonkey2	Good....Cool.	05:28
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+Radix-wrk	welcome back	05:55
@preaction_	it is you who has come back!	05:57
+Radix-wrk	not from where I'm standing ;)	06:16
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SDuensin	FrIdAy!	15:53
perlmonkey2	Hah, everyday is Friday for me, for the rest of the year!	16:03
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wgGuest45	I've uploaded a cs template at http://webgui.pastebin.com/m65e2986f. Why is the content appearing twice?	16:40
wgGuest45	Content in the post	16:40
ckotil	fridays for the rest of the year start for me next friday	16:44
ckotil	wgGuest45: not sure. i only see the tmpl_var content, once.	16:46
ckotil	post_loop must be the cause	16:46
teflond0n	does anyone know why a png image saved with a transparent bg isnt having a transparent bg in IE	16:47
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MrHairgreas1	khenn: do you know how I execute a real time workflow?	17:55
@khenn	yes	17:56
@khenn	what are you trying to do?	17:56
MrHairgreas1	I'm deleting a user account	17:56
MrHairgreas1	but before doing that	17:56
MrHairgreas1	i need to run a WebGUI::User workflow for that account	17:56
@khenn	ok	17:57
@khenn	you need to create or edit the workflow you want to run	17:57
MrHairgreas1	so I'll have to wait for deleting the account until the workflow has fisinshed	17:57
@khenn	and there you choose Real Time workflow	17:57
MrHairgreas1	did that	17:57
MrHairgreas1	did that	17:57
@khenn	then you make sure that one is set in the user settings to execute	17:57
@khenn	and that should be it	17:57
MrHairgreas1	no	17:58
MrHairgreas1	I'm trying to trigger it fromcustom code	17:58
@khenn	oh	17:58
MrHairgreas1	i'm doing WebGUI::Workflow::Instance->create	17:58
BartJol	>MrHair: Thirsty yet?	18:00
MrHairgreas1	somewhat yes	18:00
@khenn	yeah that is what you do	18:01
@khenn	WebGUI::Workflow::Instance->create	18:01
@khenn	look at WebGUI::Auth	18:01
@khenn	line 275	18:01
MrHairgreas1	but how do I wait for it to finish?	18:01
MrHairgreas1	yeah	18:01
MrHairgreas1	I found it there	18:01
@khenn	it's realtime	18:01
@khenn	so once it returns it's done	18:01
MrHairgreas1	hmm	18:01
MrHairgreas1	ok	18:01
@khenn	ie, if it takes 10 minutes	18:01
@khenn	your app is going to spin for a while	18:01
MrHairgreas1	that not what I experienced	18:01
@khenn	well	18:02
@khenn	I haven't actually tried it	18:02
@khenn	I'm going on what JT has told me	18:02
MrHairgreas1	I'll investigate a bit further	18:02
MrHairgreas1	thanks	18:02
@khenn	oh	18:03
@khenn	it looks like you have to pass it in	18:03
@khenn	mode=>"realtime"	18:03
MrHairgreas1	oh really	18:03
MrHairgreas1	damn	18:03
MrHairgreas1	I must've read over that one	18:03
MrHairgreas1	trying it now	18:03
@khenn	look at the properties in WebGUI::Workflow	18:03
@khenn	set	18:03
MrHairgreas1	yeah i did that	18:04
MrHairgreas1	or so i thought =)	18:04
@khenn	there is a mode you pass into properties	18:04
MrHairgreas1	yeah	18:04
MrHairgreas1	i understand	18:05
MrHairgreas1	i just didn't see it in the pod	18:05
MrHairgreas1	but it's there	18:05
MrHairgreas1	rioght at the bottom	18:05
MrHairgreas1	hmm	18:06
MrHairgreas1	stil no workie	18:06
MrHairgreas1	i must be doing something stupid	18:06
MrHairgreas1	i'll leave it for later this weekend	18:07
MrHairgreas1	thanks again	18:07
MrHairgreas1	gotta go now	18:07
MrHairgreas1	later	18:07
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teflond0n	is ^Navigation(tempname) the correct way to call a nav template?	18:12
teflond0n	or navigation menu rather	18:12
ckotil	ive always used ^AssetProxy	18:13
ckotil	not sure what the Navigation Macro does	18:13
MrHairgreas1	khenn: it works. The problem was me messing up	18:16
@khenn	cool	18:17
MrHairgreas1	there's a difference between unlink($configDirectory/$filename);	18:19
MrHairgreas1	and	18:19
MrHairgreas1	unlink("$configDirectory/$filename");	18:19
@khenn	yeah	18:20
MrHairgreas1	I couldn't understand those division by zero stuff in the logs =)	18:20
@khenn	1 is not a string	18:20
MrHairgreas1	anyway	18:20
MrHairgreas1	bart is complaining that I should go to the bar	18:20
MrHairgreas1	so i guess i'm gonna do just that =)	18:20
MrHairgreas1	later	18:21
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ckotil	anyone know the tmpl_var to access user profiling settings?	18:32
@khenn	there isn't one	18:32
@khenn	there's a macro	18:32
ckotil	ok	18:33
ckotil	thanks	18:33
@khenn	sure	18:33
ckotil	ah, thats too easy ;)	18:34
teflond0n	when linking to a menu and the url for the menu is themes/clean/menu but the asset id is cleannav what should go in ^AssetProxy(???)	18:36
ckotil	the url to the actual nav asset.	18:36
teflond0n	ok	18:36
teflond0n	should the url have the asset at the end of it?	18:37
ckotil	click edit on the nav asset. then copy whatever is in the url field	18:37
teflond0n	k	18:38
teflond0n	thats what i thought...	18:38
ckotil	Ive got a template expression. It seems that the macro doesnt get processed before the template expresion. is that correct?	18:45
ckotil	Do I need to have a scratch variable to hold the result of the macro before the expression?	18:46
ckotil	ah the problem seems to be webgui doesnt know about my new user profile field(s) yet	18:52
ckotil	i was using ' instead of " in the macro.	19:01
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perlDreamer	ckotil: you can make life easier with the upgrades by setting group permissions, ala g+s	19:13
perlDreamer	that way when you run the upgrade as root, the group permissions stay static and you don't	19:13
perlDreamer	have to chown the directories again	19:13
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ckotil	ah , thx for the tip pD	19:23
ckotil	<tmpl_if expr="('^User("GRNOCdocView");' eq 'SD')"> that is giving me problems. any one know a solution?	19:24
perlDreamer	template/macro order evaluation problem?	19:24
ckotil	it could be. but i think the problem is due to the use of "	19:25
perlDreamer	quotes should be optional for a single word argument	19:25
ckotil	oh, awsome. ill try it	19:25
ckotil	the template at least loaded this time without error.	19:27
ckotil	that did it.	19:29
ckotil	thanks	19:29
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perlDreamer	Okay, who wants to volunteer to run the failing test for me on PB's server, so that it can be fixed?	19:43
perlDreamer	WEBGUI_CONFIG=/data/builds/nightly_2007-12-07/WebGUI/sbin/../etc/webguibuild.conf perl Storage/Image.t	19:46
perlDreamer	then paste the output into pastebin	19:47
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ckotil	heh	19:56
ckotil	rizen's out	19:56
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perlmonkey2	For the PB $20/month hosting, how much of the 500MB disk is left over for the user after install?	20:21
perlmonkey2	I've thought about hosting and why don't more hosted use distributed file systems for their hosting?	20:35
ckotil	how distributed are you talking?	20:36
perlmonkey2	just on the LAN, but there are FOSS tools for just slapping more machines on your network and to your server it looks like the local file system got larger.	20:36
ckotil	yup	20:37
ckotil	we use nfs	20:37
perlmonkey2	I was trying to figure out how Media Temple offered 100Gb for $20/month and it has to be a distributed file system.	20:37
perlmonkey2	probably have some optimized cheap MB/proc, 8 sata controllers and 8 500Gb drives per node on the DFS.	20:38
ckotil	that would work.	20:39
ckotil	we just bought a 4TB NAS from dell	20:39
ckotil	the dell powervault	20:39
ckotil	its reasonbly priced	20:39
ckotil	and we can expand it to 8TB	20:39
perlmonkey2	at $20/month that is $800/month for their ~$1000 node.	20:39
ckotil	wow. paid off in a month.	20:40
perlmonkey2	500GB are selling for $104 on newegg.	20:40
perlmonkey2	and since it is raid'd across your nodes, you don't do backups. Is there a raid solution that can lose/rebuild after a single failure?	20:41
ckotil	yes.	20:41
ckotil	raid5	20:42
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nuba	if you're rolling your own disk array then check lvm too	20:54
nuba	i've done a decent netapp lookalike with fibre channel, and raid5 on top of lvm2 :)	20:56
nuba	also you may want to check freenas	20:56
nuba	this one http://www.freenas.org/	20:56
wgGuest45	How do I remove 'home' from my page url?	20:57
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ckotil	does the lvm sacrifice performance?	21:16
nuba	of course any layer you add will increase overhead	21:18
nuba	however with lvm then you dont care about physical disks anymore	21:19
ckotil	righteous	21:19
ckotil	im using lvm on my RH5 machines.	21:20
ckotil	and with XEN	21:20
perlmonkey2	nuba: I've been running lvm for years. I never knew it was capable of creating volumns over a network.	21:20
* perlmonkey2 only runs LVM as most of his machine have 4-8 drives.		21:22
perlDreamer	ckotil: with all that virtualization, you better hope the NOC doesn't figure out a way to virtualize _you_	21:29
ckotil	;)	21:30
nuba	perlmonkey2: whoa, nice, i never knew you could do that until about now	21:30
ckotil	they need me too much.	21:30
ckotil	pd, i think i hit a brick wall with the order of operations thing regarding a macro inside a tmpl expr.	21:34
ckotil	you ever see that before?	21:35
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ckotil	http://tinyurl.com/2lqpqh jeopard from 2 nights ago	22:06
ckotil	+y	22:08
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ckotil	http://www.dailygalaxy.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/02/microsoft_ad.jpg	23:08
@preaction_	that emo punk deserves it	23:09
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perlDreamer	ckotil: I got netsplit out of the channel. What problem are you having with templates and macros?	00:08
perlmonkey2	The WRE runs instead of Apache, right?	00:18
perlmonkey2	The WRE requires there not be a webserver already running?	00:18
@preaction_	in its normal configuration, yes	00:18
perlmonkey2	cool, thanks	00:19
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nuba	perlmonkey2> capable of creating volumns over a network	00:37
nuba	got some URL? I rechecked LVM2's docs and found nothing on that	00:38
nuba	i guess you confused LVM with something else	00:38
nuba	found a nice setup here: http://www.gridvm.org/drbd-lvm-gnbd-and-xen-for-free-and-reliable-san.html	00:45
perlmonkey2	I thought someone else was saying LVM can use drives over the network, I was just saying wow, I wasn't implying that it could.	00:45
nuba	ah ok. that'd be nice indeed.	00:47
nuba	when you said that i thought it would be something in the style of plan9	00:52
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CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5100 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): fix: Auto Request Commit setting creates extra version tag if asset is commited by another process	01:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5101 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm): backport 5100 to 7.4 branch	01:18
@preaction	ONE ENTIRE WEEK TO FIND THAT BUG	01:21
perlDreamer	and it made the caps lock key stick on your keyboard, too	01:23
@preaction	no, that's me baby	01:23
@preaction	i'm irrationally exhuberent	01:23
@apeiron	s/h//	01:24
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perlDreamer	Good, now go buy some stock so it pumps up the price and I can sell and retire early	01:24
perlDreamer	and learn how to make pannenkoeken	01:24
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wgGuest82	How do I remove 'home' from the page url?	01:26
@preaction	update the page url to be what you want it to be using the asset edit page? or click "More" in the asset manager and choose "Change URL"?	01:27
nuba	i think he meant just dropping the 'home' in 'http://www.example.com/home'	01:31
wgGuest82	Yes	01:31
nuba	if thats the case then Settings->Content->Default Home Page is possibly what you're looking for	01:31
nuba	so if you go to 'http://www.example.com' you'll hit the default page	01:32
nuba	default setting is 'Home'	01:32
nuba	now, accessing 'http://www.example.com/home' will still work	01:33
nuba	if you have a problem with that, then i think things will get a bit more complicated	01:34
nuba	i'd solve it with a redirect rule in modproxy	01:35
nuba	well thats the first thing that comes to my mind, anyway you can ask for more ideas here if you want..	01:36
wgGuest82	It will have to be this other way, redirect rule in ModProxy	01:38
wgGuest82	I would like to know how to use a redirect in modproxy to change remove 'home' from the page url	01:40
@preaction	not a redirect, a rewrite rule, is there any special reason why you need to remove "home"?	01:41
wgGuest82	None. Just that I'm more familiar using a static site and more familiar with a folder structure of page url	01:43
@preaction	but "home" is the "home" asset under the root node "/"	01:44
nuba	preaction: yeah its a redirect: ^/home$ / [R]	01:44
nuba	the R flag will force an external redirection, with a HTTP code in the 300-400 range if you want (and default being 302) and all that	01:46
nuba	wgGuest82: you should really think about why is it that '/home' in the URL bothers you	01:50
nuba	'cause you can just ignore it, use the 'Default Home Page' setting, and build your website the way you are used to	01:52
wgGuest82	Ok. I will probably reconsider. From the looks of it I have one more issue that now seems more important. News style CS	01:58
wgGuest82	I've tried all the templates in the CS and none of them has a teaser with 'read more'	01:59
nuba	check the weblog one.	02:00
wgGuest82	It doesn't give me a teaser. It gives the full story and its not formatted /<p>	02:01
nuba	check the template variables for the CS	02:02
nuba	then copy the weblog template or any other that looks closer to what you want	02:04
nuba	and edit it	02:04
wgGuest82	In the WebGUI Designers Guide, I followed an example to create a News Brief template that works but they didn't put a synopsis; I did and the content repeats itself	02:04
nuba	i haven't seen the designers guide, can't help you with that one	02:04
nuba	but you should find what you need in the help	02:04
wgGuest82	The help wasn't explicit enough regarding synopsis	02:06
nuba	heh, maybe we need someone to get familiar with it then contribute back with some better wording for the help, then ;)	02:09
nuba	what about it?	02:09
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metanil	i change code in /data/WebGUI/lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm.	04:24
metanil	i intentionally put junk...	04:25
metanil	it didn't show any errors..	04:25
metanil	?	04:25
@preaction	you need to restart the webserver before any changes occur	04:25
@preaction	or you need to use Apache2::SizeLimit	04:25
metanil	yaa.. already restart mod_proxy	04:25
metanil	yaa.. already restarted mod_proxy	04:26
@preaction	that's not the server that loads webgui	04:26
metanil	from WRE	04:26
metanil	oops!	04:26
metanil	then?	04:26
@preaction	the other oen	04:26
metanil	actually from the WebGUI page its not working .. because its not showing page....(cause i put junk) .. but it didn't show any errors.. in modproxy.error.log	04:27
metanil	did i missed something?	04:27
@preaction	once again, the mod_proxy instance does not do anything with WebGUI itself	04:28
@preaction	two better places to look: webgui.log modperl.error.log	04:28
metanil	oh!.. got it.. i found it in webgui.log	04:30
metanil	thanks preaction	04:31
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CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5102 /branch/photogallery/WebGUI/www/extras/ (4 files in 2 dirs): a weeks worth of changes	11:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: doug * r5103 /branch/photogallery/WebGUI/www/extras/yui-carousel/ (carousel-min.js carousel_min.js): added carousel	11:18
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:25
ckotil	Good Morning	16:26
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teflond0n	anyone here worked with the weather function much?	21:49
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perlDreamer	teflond0n: what's your question?	22:51
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teflond0n	all I get is the ^AssetProxy(weather); when I try to get it to show... is there anything different I need to do with weathers macro?	23:07
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perlDreamer	boy, it gets quiet in here in December	01:21
@preaction_	indeed	01:22
perlDreamer	feeling the urge to merge?	01:22
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@preaction_	not yet, this weekend it'll happen, or friday if i'm quick	01:23
@preaction_	i've got another feature i need to add: packages in the upgrade script (i'm sick of using those ".tmpl" files and not being able to add images, snippets, etc...)	01:23
perlDreamer	cool	01:24
perlDreamer	I think I'm going to have to use Perl::Critic guts (_privateFunctions) in order to finish the label checker	01:24
perlDreamer	and I'm hoping that the main loop is safely reentrant	01:24
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ckotil	does the wiki asset only display the option to add content after your search comes up empty?	15:50
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SDuensin	Morning.	16:11
ckotil	Good Morning.	16:13
SDuensin	Did I say "good"? :-P	16:15
ckotil	you're right. its OK	16:25
ckotil	and only tuesday!	16:25
ckotil	im anxiously awaiting friday.	16:25
ckotil	im taking a road trip to the rocky mountains for a little over a week	16:25
ckotil	they are getting hammered with snow right now!	16:25
ckotil	can you limit access to who can edit content profilings?	16:26
ckotil	im tagging all my assets to create custom views and searches.	16:26
ckotil	i can see i could get burned if anyone can change the new tag.	16:27
ckotil	woah! 2 new tabs on plainblack.com	16:29
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perlDreamer	rizen: ping	18:39
perlDreamer	got a bug question for you	18:39
perlDreamer	is Asset/fixUrl supposed to truncate to 220 characters long, or remove the first 220 characters?	18:39
@rizen	truncate to 220	18:39
perlDreamer	bug fix in 15 minutes then :)	18:40
@rizen	k	18:40
@rizen	i can't believe i screwed that up	18:40
@rizen	that means it's been broken forever	18:40
perlDreamer	who uses 250 character URLs?	18:40
@rizen	but i guess, how often do you get that big of url	18:40
@rizen	yeah	18:40
@rizen	i hope to have something super cool to show you by the end of the week	18:41
@rizen	a little side project i've been working on that i needed for an internal plain black project	18:41
perlDreamer	I have a Christmas shopping date with Kathy on Friday, but I'll be sure to be online that evening, and a little over the weekend.	18:42
@rizen	well i may have it by tomorrow	18:42
@rizen	it just depends on how things go	18:42
@rizen	and it can wait until next week if needs be	18:42
@rizen	it's not that big of deal	18:42
@rizen	i just think that there are some in our little community that are going to flip their hats once they realize what it does	18:42
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5104 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Asset.pm t/Asset/Asset.t): correct truncation in fixUrl, add a test for future coverage	18:48
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5105 /WebGUI/ (4 files in 4 dirs): forward porting fixUrl bugfix and test	18:48
ckotil	are you gonna keep it entirely under wraps?	18:48
@rizen	yup	18:50
@rizen	until i merge it into svn	18:50
@rizen	then i'll do a black blog post about it	18:50
perlDreamer	Hey, at least he isn't making us wait until Christmas to find out	18:51
ckotil	true	19:02
@rizen	pd, i may have hinted or told you a little about it in a previous conversation	19:02
@rizen	back when i first started working on it	19:02
@rizen	but things have come up so i haven't finished it for about 3 weeks	19:03
@rizen	when it should have only been a days work	19:03
perlDreamer	I'm drawing a blank, but I've also worked on 4 chips over the last several weeks so I'm a little scattered.	19:09
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perlDreamer	In other news, I got the Perl::Critic policy up and working.	19:40
perlDreamer	It's functionally equivalent to t/i18n/label.t	19:40
perlDreamer	Adding the scope will require some extra code, and using private Perl::Critic functions	19:40
perlDreamer	but I don't think that's a problem	19:40
perlDreamer	The bummer is that Perl::Critic/PPI seems to be dog slow	19:41
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ckotil	do init scripts ship with the wre?	20:03
ckotil	init scripts for spectre.	20:03
ckotil	found it	20:06
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SDuensin	http://forum.exler.ru/uploads/110/post-1192135721.jpg	20:58
@apeiron	Wow, that's apparently from MSVC6.0.	21:05
* perlDreamer gives an evil chuckle		21:05
SDuensin	:-)	21:08
perlDreamer	well, i write most of the tests, so that probably make _me_ a maintenance programmer	21:08
perlDreamer	Fortunately for y'all, my chainsaw is broken	21:09
perlDreamer	and my axes are very dull	21:09
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CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5106 /branch/WebGUI_7.4/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): fix a bug where secondary admins could add users to any groups, as opposed to only the groups that the admin belongs to	23:18
CIA-40	WebGUI: colin * r5107 /WebGUI/ (docs/changelog/7.x.x.txt lib/WebGUI/Operation/User.pm): forward porting secondary admin group access privileges when creating users	23:18
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